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Tom Parsekian: Running for Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge

Published Feb 27, 2020, 11:00 AM

On today's special bonus episode, Sophia sits down with Tom Parsekian, who is running for Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge in the election on March 3rd. They discuss the importance of having integrity in the judicial system, why local elections matter, what it's like to argue on behalf of people and their rights, how his parents shaped his values, and much more. 

Executive Producers: Sophia Bush & Sim Sarna

Supervising Producer: Allison Bresnick

Associate Producer: Caitlin Lee

Editors: Josh Windisch and Matt Sasaki

Music written by Jack Garratt and produced by Mark Foster

Artwork by Kimi Selfridge

This show is brought to you by Brilliant Anatomy.



Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress, where I talked to people who inspire me about how they got to where they are and where they think they're still going. Whip Smartie's. We are releasing a special bonus episode today because there is a major election on Tuesday, March three. Have you heard people talking about Super Tuesday? That's what's up. And to my Los Angeles friends, we need you all to vote. If you're not in l A, you should check to see what local elections are coming up for you because they really really matter, and they matter especially when it comes to selecting our judges guys, which brings me to today's special guest, Tom Parsikian, who is running for l A Superior Court judge. He's bright, he's honest, he has deep integrity and over thirty years of experience that would make him such a valuable and much needed addition to our judicial system. We need people like him to be part of our government. So take a listen, find out how we got to know each other, why he's such an amazing guy, and then get out to the polls and votes. Every vote counts. Hi, Tom, Hello, I'm so excited that you're here today. I am thrilled to be here. So for listeners at home, Tom parseki In is one of the dad's in my friend group and also happens to be running for judge here in in Los Angeles County, and you're one of my favorite people to have a holiday party with and also to talk about the state of the Union with. And I'm just really excited that we get to unpack all of this stuff today. Yeah, I'm really happy to be here. So you and I first met because your daughter, Lauren is one of my best friends. And I remember the first time I came over for a football Sunday at at your house. You and your wife Deb and you guys are just the most gracious hosts always, And you know, even as a pack of kids who are now adults, some of whom have kids of their own, we love coming home to hang with you guys. A beautiful granddaughter. God, she's just the cutest, stories, the best, And something that was really really special this summer, we myself and Aaron, your son in law, and Lauren and our friend Michelle and Brian, a whole a whole bunch of really lovely humans helped throw a sort of kickoff event for your campaign. And it was so special to hear everyone telling stories about, you know, their relationship to you, and their relationship to your family and and all of this sort of really beautiful, a personal stuff. And we got to talk about why judge ships are so important and what we should all really be aware of going into these election years, about how the judges that are in these court systems around the country really helped to determine the law not just for their city or their state, but but really of of how the legal landscape looks in America. And it was such a cool learning experience for me. And that's why I wanted you to come and talk to everyone who's listening to the podcast. Yes, I'm so happy to have a discussion about this particular subject because you're absolutely right. You know, when people go into the election booth, the one thing they're really foggy about is when they get to the slate of judicial candidates. They don't know who they are, They don't know what their background is, and they either don't vote at all, or they might vote because somebody has an interesting looking name or what have you. I mean, I've actually heard voters tell me that but the one thing they don't know really is what to do. And we've tried to run a campaign to inform voters about judicial elections because you're absolutely right, they affect. You know, politicians who run for elective office, they come and go. Some of them have term limits they have to go by law, Others when they retire or what have you, but they come and go. Judges are on the bench forever, whether or not they're on the federal bench where they're pointed and then confirmed, they're there for life. But even in state court, you have a judge on the superior court sitting for a term of six years. But rarely, if ever, does a sitting incumbent judge ever get elected out of office. It just doesn't happen. So they're really almost lifetime appointments as well. And judges make decisions that affect people's day today lives. And I tell people, you know, in Congress or in the state legislatures, they pass laws and they affect people's lives. But judges interpret the law. So when there's a dispute about something, they the final word is in the judiciary. So if the House of Representatives is in a fight with the Senator, what have you about something, or whether people are challenging a state past law or a federal past law, at the end of the day, they get the final word in the judiciary that and really that's what upholds the power and this stability in our government is that we have a place, a final place out of the three co equal branches of government, where you can go to get the final word, and that word becomes the law because they're interpreting the law and they're telling you what the law is. And so the decisions that they make are so profound. You know, I call the superior court, which is a trial court, the court of consequence because it's where people get decisions judgments that affect them so profoundly. It's so consequential, you know, So it can affect their personal freedom. So somebody standing before you, there's a judge sitting on the bench, one person, and he or she is going to make a decision that could affect this person's very liberty. Or they could be making a decision that could affect their financial security in a profound way, could be a way that's almost dispositive of their security financial security, it could affect their reputation. Those kinds of decisions. It could affect their family relationships. All these things happen in a courtroom, and it's not a panel of people. It's a trial judge that's sitting in judgment. And those judges, even when there's a jury there, have tremendous effect on the jury by the decisions that they make during a trial proceeding because the juries, you know, have trust in the judge and they can lead a jury's thinking it a little bit of a way. And so those decisions, even with the jury are going to have a profound effect on the people standing before a judge in the courtroom. So what I tell people is think about out this. When you go to vote in any given election, you're voting for somebody running for presidentary rooting somebody running for governor or whatever it may be. But a judge, that person may affect you directly because the first time you ever have a brush up against the law or are involved in any legal proceeding could be standing in a trial court. Some people may only get there for traffic court, you know, and never see a courtroom again. But people end up in courtrooms and it's kind of scary for them because there's a lot on the line, so you want to put people on the bench that have empathy and understanding. And one of the other things I tell people when I speak is there's a difference between empathy and sympathy. I mean, sympathy is where you feel sorry for somebody. Empathy means you've been there, you feel that you know what they're going through. And I really think it's critically important that judges have experienced life experience. I think sometimes even on the federal bench as well, judges that are appointed or elected need to have some years under their belt. I always get concerned when I see somebody a little bit too young and ending up on the bench, not because they may not have the intellectual capacity or the you know, innate tools that they need, but you do need to live life to see people, to experience even travel, getting to see different cultures around the world. You need to be around a little bit so that when you're sitting on the bench and you're making a determination about whether a witness is telling the truth or not. And judges do that. They make determinations on whether you know, particular testimony is truthful. They do findings of fact, and they make determinations like that you want that judge to be empathetic, to be intelligence, certainly, but to have lived a little bit so that they understand life experiences. So that is something that makes me so curious because you've come to this place in your life where you realize that that adage, if not us, then who really rings true for you? And I'm curious about the beginning, you know, how how we got here, because you are an incredibly empathetic and incredibly intellectual person who does have so much experience under your belt. But before we get into why you're running, I'm curious where did it all start? Can Can you tell us where you grew up? Yeah, I grew up in New Jersey. I was the son of a wonderful man, my father, who passed away twelve years ago. He was such a beloved public servant. He was. He was a highly decorated World War to combat veteran. Yeah, he was. He was the real deal, my dad. He at the age of twenty one. And I think about that, you know, I have three children. I have a son who's twenty six, and I think about somebody who's even five years younger than that. In nineteen forty two, he enlisted in the Army Air Corps because they didn't have an air force at the time. It was part of the army, and he became a pilot, a navigator, and obamadere all wrapped in one, and he trained, you know, all over this country before going overseas, and then he was stationed at Okinawa and he remained there for two and a half years because he actually didn't come back until nineteen forty six because he was on the occupying force to keep the peace. So he was in the war for a long time. He was a combat veteran. His forward squadrons, these flights of of of of flyers would go out on these dangerous missions where sometimes a third of them would not return, and he was leading them because he was became an officer leading these forward squadrons in battle and bronze stars multiply of all his records. He has an incredible career fighting for this country and came back from that, I think a different person um in terms of you know, when you give up your life for the country like that and fight and see life and death, you know, over and over again for years. He came back and wanted to commit himself to public service. So I grew up in New Jersey in a household where I had a father who came from that background. He was born in nine He grew up during the Depression, and he was the child of refugees. My grandparents were from Armenia and they escaped the Armenian Massacre of nineteen fifteen to nineteen twenty, the Ottoman Empire massacre, which, by the way, incredibly I'm running for judge in seat number one fifty one zero, and why that means a lot to me is a quality kismet because I'm running in seat one fifty and the US Senate just passed Resolution one recognizing the Armenian genocide a month ago. And this happened after I was placed into seat one fifty. And you know, it's just one of those things about whether you believe in numbers and how they affect things in life. You know, that number was so impactful. I got a call the next day from a sitting judge here in Los Angeles who was born in Armenia, has an incredible background getting herself to this country and her education and whatnot, and she's a judge here in l A. And she called me and she was emotional because I'm running in seat number one fifty and Resolution one fifty just passed for the first time recognizing that the Armenian genocide actually occurred, happened at all, and it's been a long fight for the Armenian community to get that recognition. And it's important, yeah, incredibly important to honor what communities have gone through. And it strikes me as so I mean moving really that you're you know, your father enlisted to fight against a genocide that was happening during World War two, to fight against what was being done to the Jews, and that you come from this heritage of having escaped the genocide of your own people. Yeah, and incredibly Hitler and he wrote this down. It's not just anecdotal when he tried to rationalize what he was going to do, which was trying to exterminate a race of people, that being the Jewish culture and race at that time, that he said, whoever remembered the Armenian genocide? Yeah, he actually wrote that that's in history. So he used the Armenian massacre, which wasn't one and a half million Armenians were killed. They were marched out into the desert, men and boys were separated from their mothers and daughters, and they were summarily executed, tortured, murdered. I mean, it's it's if you read the history, it's it's it's very hard to even talk about. My grandparents were from the cities of airs Um and Dick were on our Guart, which are two cities which are now in eastern Turkey but at the time were western Armenia. There were particularly hard hit I mean really just tremendous atrocities. So Hitler looked back on that and said, woh that happened. We're you know, now we're what twenty years later or what have you, And and he went about trying to exterminate, uh, you know, a race based on that history. So to have it not be recognized in this country that it even existed was something that the community there in the community fought for. And I will say I'm really thrilled that both the House in resolution to and then the Senate by unanimous consent, which means there were no objections, and that's by part, you know, bipartisan. I think it's fifty seven right now, Republican. That Senate passed unanimously resolution one fifty to recognize irmin and genocide. So my father, as you said, you know, it was a son of refugees, joined and grew up during the Depression, So grew up during a time where there was hardship, tremendous struggle. His father passed away when he was ten years old. So his mother raised four boys, the eldest of which died on the kitchen table, bleeding to death from a ton selectomy. Was yeah, at the time they did that, they gave you know, the operations in the kitchen back in the nineteen late teens, I guess or early twenties. She lost her eldest son on the kitchen table, never recovered from it. I will honestly tell you that as I hear that, you know the history of my family, something she never quite got over. And she had three more boys, so she raised them, my father being the youngest born in and had to raise them. As a seamstress in New York City. She was one of these sweatshop workers that you see in the old documentaries or or here about in stories, women working who could only get protections eventually from the garment workers unions who were trying to like hell to organize and get rights for people who were working for pennies an hour. That was my grandmother working to make enough money to raise three boys. Couldn't do it because so her eldest son had to work as well, you know, to raise his brothers along with with my grandmother. So it's just an incredible history to think that my grandfather grew up or my father, I'm sorry, I grew up during that time during the Depression, the son of refugees who escaped a genocide and then said I'm going to fight for this country at the age of twenty one, risked my life for a country that at that time he all he saw was, you know, hardship in the depression, and coming from a family who had escaped, you know this this heart horrific cars and probably motivated him to say he's in a better place and he's going to fight for this better place and did. And so I think that's what shaped his worldview. Although I will say based on reading his letters, his voluminous letters, which it is amazing that we actually have that he wrote to his mother from overseas during the war, and I have them there, their scores of them reading his letters to his mother. What I came to to realize about my father is this was who he was as a person. He innately was just a person with tremendous empathy, integrity, and character. I know, your good friend, Lauren, my daughter knew my dad um in her younger years and could tell you the feeling that she got about him as a human being. And so this is the kind of person that I grew up emulated and hoping to even approach that kind of person. I could never be him, But what a what a standard to set, you know, And it's so interesting and beautiful to me that his standard. He began so young, but he came home to become a trial attorney, eventually a judge, eventually a state senator in New Jersey. And I wonder, you know, when you talk about knowing that you wanted to strive to be a man like your father, in hindsight, do you think about the the values he passed down, the lessons that he taught to you. What what it was like to watch him consistently strive for deeper levels of public service. Yes, I did, because I watched him when he was giving speeches as a young boy, and it was so moving because I would be watching people's faces in the audience and the kind of love that you could see from people when they saw him speak. And I would listen to him as a young boy growing up and watching him out on the campaign trail, depending on what he was doing. It was so inspiring to me because I end from his discussions with me one on one, I would I learned that, And I think this is what gives me the facility to do this because people say, well, how can you be a judge? I mean, don't you bring biases and prejudice that everybody has in everyday life to the bench. How can you watch that away? And I tell people, believe it or not, I can, and it's it's hard to convince them because think about that, how do you do that? But I think it was from growing up seeing that and learning that from my from my father. He he he was the kind of person that took everyone in at face value, at face value, in other words, there was no prejudices, preconceived notions whatsoever. And I watched this year after year after year seeing him interact with people, amazed how no matter what person's background, no matter you know where they came from, what their preferences, were, their gender, their financial position, whatever it was. He had such a big heart and such deep empathy for people, and I could see when he interacted with them that he took everyone for who they were. There was no angle whatsoever. And that's what I saw, and that's what I feel grew inside of me, you know, through learning from him. So um, these are the things that you know, you know, you hope, you know you can do. UM certainly in the courtroom. Do you have a favorite memory of your dad? God, there's so many memories, you know. I think it's funny we're talking about watching him make speeches and whatnot. I think one of the memories that I have that was so impactful, and I might have spoken about it last August when we did the kickoff event was when my dad ran for governor back in the nineteen sixties. He was endorsed by Robert Kennedy. And the way I was talking about him when he would make speeches and whatnot, you know, Bobby Kennedy had this kind of effect on people, and I think that's why they connected and why he endorsed my dad, and they were kind of similar kindred spirits in that way. And you know, when my dad. I'll never forget. In June, I was about ten years old, and you know, we were on the East coast and we lost Kennedy here in Los Angeles, I think it was June six, downtown l A at the Ambassador Hotel. And I remember the next morning both my parents coming in my room and I was in bed, and woke me up to tell me that what had happened, that we lost Bobby Kennedy. And it was like it was almost like a thickness in the air. You could feel it. It was I felt at that moment that there was it was like the world that kind of paused on its axis in a sense that sounds trite maybe, but he really did. There was there was this feeling that something major had changed at that moment, that we were going to be set off into a different trajectory from that moment on, things were going to change. And it felt a little unsettling at the time. But my dad and this was a tremendous moment, you know, for our family and the country in the world, sitting down and talking to me about and I was only ten years old about what had just happened. Because this was a violent episode where we lost a beloved figure and talking to me about how do you process that and move on to a young child? Um, And you know, his his strength at this moment of tremendous national sadness and his grace in a sense at this time gave me a feeling that you can process these kinds of things and try to move on from them in a positive way. UM, even when you have tragedies like this, And because sometimes you can get really down on some and really feel despair, which I think today in the country, I see that as I go around on the campaign trail, I see a lot of despair and people kind of feel like they're losing hope or maybe they don't have hope. And so I think it's important, like he kind of rallied my little ten year old body at the time not to feel such despair and to somehow know that the world was not going to end at that moment. And so when I see that out there when I'm just doing my thing here, I try to bring that into the room. You know that there are things that we can do that, you know, to not sit back and just let it go, but to really try to make a change for the positive and don't despair and lose hope. So I guess to answer your question, I was like to circle back to the question after a long answer, but to answer the call of your question, it's that it's I guess it's my That memory was so profound and how he handled it, and it was a teaching moment for me that I can read to this day. That's so beautiful and how special that you get to channel one of your favorite memories of your dad when you're out doing your own work. What about your mom? What was she like? Oh? Wow, my mom was you know first, all raised four kids. I was the youngest of four, three older sisters. She and my dad were married in nine fifty all the until the day he died in two thous of course, a long long marriage, fifty eight years until he passed away. She's still alive today. She's going on ninety three years of age. Mama. She is an inspiration as she gets up in the morning and drives herself to the senior center to meet with her friends every morning. At the age of ninety two going on ninety three, and she went in to Department of Motor Vehicles last year to take her written test and got a hundred percent on this test at the age of ninety one going on ninety two. It was such it blew them away at the d m V so much that they came out from the back room where they do these tests to tell me that your mother just got ad on a written test. And they were so so shocked by it. And so I told her, I said, well, there's there's no question that you are fully here on uh and you were with us. So she's a woman of great strong fortitude. Her parents are an incredible story. Her father came to this country on a boat across the sea from Europe, landed on Ellis Island. Yeah he really Okay, well, how cool his name his plaque is on the wall on Ellis Island and he came through. It would have been he came he was born in He came were at the age of twelve. So in nineteen he came across the country at the age of twelve. He had one relative here to be the contact. The idea was, as many immigrants do in this country, can he work and send money back to the old country to help his parents who were living in impoverished at the time. My grandfather worked basically as an indentured servant as a young child for a family on a farm for several years. Then we got of age. He worked in the coal mines and went to Western Pennsylvania, married my grandmother at a very young age. My grandmother was probably eighteen years old at the time when they got married. And he worked in the coal mines in western Pennsylvania for several years until she felt she was going to lose him in the minds and convinced him to leave and go to New York City where he worked in heavy construction as an iron worker. And he worked on the Empire State Building, on the christ Are Building, Yes, and those buildings have my grandfather's hands in them. And he worked in these iconic structures as an immigrant to this country. And boy was he a proud immigrant. Oh, my god, working in New York in these in these places. And my my grandfather was a member of the original c i O. Before it was the a f l C i OH, it was the Congress of Industrial Organizations, which is what that stands for. In the nineteen thirties, I guess it was it became the a f L C i OH. I think in nineteen fifty eight they merged, but it was the c I O back in the nineteen thirties. And I can tell you that I probably wouldn't be sitting here today if it wasn't for unions because between my father's side and my garment worker grandmother on one side, working in the sweatshops in New York and the protections that they fought for it to just get a wage that you could survive on maybe, and then my grandfather on the other side, who was a coal miner and then iron worker in New York, and the fights that they wage back then to try to get a living wage. That's what they basically survived because of those fights. I mean people today, you know, you hear people talk about unions and sometimes they try to politicize them and denigrate them and use them as a political weapon. Forget about the politics. This is about survival. These were people coming together to try to see if you could survive, and they banded together to try to fight for that and about what's fair. And it's so interesting because if I'm may sidebars for a moment, I've had people out on campaign trails ask me why I'm so passionate about health care and making sure that we have universal health care and and that we treat our citizens as well as we as they're treated in other countries that are on par with us economically. And I always remind people, I say, how do you think I have healthcare? I'm an a union the screen actors guilt that my union provides my health care. And when I look at the other union workers on sets, you know, people think Hollywood's fancy. They forget that there's like four award shows a year. But for the most part, we're on sets and it's a bunch of union guys on us, and we're a bunch of union kids. And it's like I'm on sets with the construction workers Union, with the transportation unions, with the camera guys, and there everybody is only there and only protected because of these organizations. And I feel like sometimes people and especially people who maybe don't have the family history that you do, forget that the only reason any of us has a shot even at a fair shake is because they were They were organized, because there were workers who had the courage to organize and fight for rights. You know, it's the concept collective bargaining is how they do it. You're talking about either the Screen Actors Guild or equity or what used to be after SAG after that is an a f L see i OH guilt and that you know actors and actresses who work for a certain period of time, then maybe they don't work for a certain period of time. You know, most actors are in and out of work, and when they're if they didn't have the healthcare afforded to them by the a f L C I O screen actors guilt say, for instance, they wouldn't have healthcare, they wouldn't have basic healthcare. And that's that the only way, the only way they got that is under the collective bargaining concept, the idea that people because you can't do it alone, because you're you're in an unequal bargaining position. You know, you can't do it. So you collect together with other people as a group, so you have a little bit of power, so you can equal you can level out that table a little bit. It's like you've got to get a group of David's to fight the gal as. Yeah, and that's not a bad thing. You know, when people talk about that, or they talk about concepts of you might have heard of the term interest group of liberalism. And the reason I bring that up is because you know, people talk about the the phrases conservative and liberal and whatnot, and sometimes they don't really know what it really means. But I mean the terms like liberalism, Okay, I mean the concept there was way back people on their own couldn't fight for themselves because they didn't have the money or the power to do that. So in a capitalist society, which is what our society is, and everybody wants everyone to do well and succeed as best as they can, but there are also people who can't get a leg up and can't survive. So how do they do that? Well, they grouped together with others, and that's what interest groups are. It's the only way they can do it. So they get together with others and they collect together and try to get a powerful voice as a group. That's really all it is. It's not a negative thing at all, and a lot of people try to cast shade on that. You know, the concepts of people gathering as groups and fighting for their rights, whether they're protesting, whether they're you know, in the streets protesting, or whether they're collective bargaining as a group or whatever. It is. It's very American. You know, it's something to be proud of that we in our country can do that and succeeded doing that and fight for those things like getting an agreement where you have healthcare. You know. So these are you know, I don't you know, as as a as running for judge, as you know, it's nonpartisan, and you know, I try to speak to all sides, you know, Republicans and Democrats or what have you. I try to tell them, don't let yourselves be divided. You know, you can have different opinions or whatnot, but don't hate each other, you know, you know, because there are a lot of forces out there that try to divide, you know, in the country. So um, you know, don't don't look at the other side as the boogeyman or what have you. You know, try to you know, understand each side. Of course, judges have to do that when people come into the court, well, and that's where that mixture of empathy and intellect comes in. I side tracked you. We were talking about your mom, and then we got into into this stuff. But I think it's so cool that you know, she grew up with a father who helped to build New York. What what was her kind of role in your family? What do you what do you feel like you learned from your mom? Well, she was the matriarch. I mean my mom was solid, very strong woman. I mean that's why she's still sharp as attack atragon on night, very right, comes to very good stock. I mean she's just really strong, bright woman. So when I say matriarch, you know, she raised four boys while she had a husband, my dad, who was you know, a judge at one time, who was a senator at one time, a state senator in you know, in New Jersey. He was the director of motor vehicles, so he was he was serving the public, which takes a lot of your time, right, So she had to raise four kids in a way that we all felt everything was going beautifully, you know, keeping things together, and she did. You know, I never felt at any time that there was a lack of contact with my dad or with my mom or anything like that. And that was her. She was a very strong woman. You know, I grew up as a feminist because I grew up with three older sisters. I had no brothers, and I actually have two daughters and his son. So I'm just constantly surrounded by by women. In fact, even when we have cats and dogs, they always seem to be female in my household. So no matter what it is, and people say, are you a feminist? Always, I guess I am because I grew up in a in a in a female household, and my mom was a very strong figure and still is and so you know, for me, I've always tried to encourage women, you know, to be involved, um, you know, in politics and whatnot and make their voice her. That's always been really important to me because I'm surrounded by beautiful, bright, intellectual women and and they just seemed to always do the right thing and know the right thing to do. So with my mom, she raised us in that kind of a household, you know, just you know, everyone felt loved cared for, you know that she was always there and and she also imparted that kind of empathy and understanding for people, the same concepts her and my dad. You know, it's really funny. People don't believe me when I tell them this, but it's true. My parents were married for fifty eight years and I tell people that I never saw them argue. Now when I tell people that, they say, oh, well, that that means they have argued behind closed doors, or that's not possible, or that's they I've had people told me that's not healthy, that that can't be right, or whatnot. But it's not that. These two people. Sometimes two stars come together from the sky and there was some destiny there and whatever the long term plan was for them to come together, it happened. And that just in my life, there was just tremendous love between them. And it wasn't a fake kind of instance here love. I mean, this is true. I mean it was just always there and there was just no friction. So they got along so well. They saw eye to eye just on everything. They loved being together. They loved traveling together. They loved each other's company, so they loved traveling with friends, but they love traveling together alone as well because they loved each other's company. So the household I grew up in was that kind of household. And some people say, well, Tom, that was unrealistic household to grow up and you couldn't possibly, you know, match that. But I've been married for thirty five years and I feel the same way about my wife, and you know, I just you know, it can happen and can be done. Um, but I think, you know, to answer your question, though, my mom, you know, set that kind of feeling in our house with our kids growing up, and and I think it was just a great home to be in. That's so cool. Do you think that from an early age you had an inkling you into following your dad's footsteps. You know, it's interesting. I had two paths. I had the path my academic path. Um. You know, through high school I was doing well and I ended up studying undergraduate at Harvard University before being out of school for two years in between, when I was on a soap opera in New York. So you're wondering what how did that happened? I know, but it's true. What can I tell you? Because I was doing plays in high school and that was so you know, I was doing really well. But then I was also in the arts. And for some reason in this country, never the Twain shall meet. I don't know what it is about our culture. You know, you go to Europe and the arts are so encouraged, you know, by the government. You know, they're encouraged, you know, whether it's in France or whatever it is, you know, they encourage the arts. You know here they do, but not really. I mean it's like, you know, you you have to have private foundations help fund the arts and whatnot, and and there's kind of a concept of a few ling I think here now that we're talking about the arts, and I'll just tell you, you know, it's kind of like, well, you're just gonna we're not gonna regard you as an artist until you make it quote end quote. You know that's not so true elsewhere here, you know, you get that feeling. So being in the arts, which I was in high school and also doing well academically, was to divergent paths that it was not something it was something I had to make a decision. So I got into a really good college and there I was studying up there, but I was still doing plays. And I was doing a play in Boston and somebody saw me and one thing led to another, and the next thing I know of being signed by the Wily Moors Agency in New York, and thought what do I do? So I took a leave of absence to see where that would go. Within a couple of months, I was on One Life to Live, which is ABC soap, and at that time this was the nine nine soap operas were really big and they were the biggest. They were the biggest, and ABC was huge, and I think our show is like number three, and I think there were twelve soaps at the time. Most were in New York, and so we were shooting there in New York. And I did that for for a couple of years. And then because I had promised my grandfather, the one who worked in coal mines, who said to me, promised me that you'll go to college and finish, and I promised him that I would, I could not go back on that. So when my contract came up on One Life to Live, I dropped everything and I went back. I transferred to Columbia University started to be in New York, and that's where I finished. I got my degree because of my promise to my grandfather, and so I did that. Um I went to study at Oxford University on scholarship. I had written an essay on Virginia Wolf, a little known book that she wrote called The Waves. I mean, most people know to the Lighthouse and Mrs Dalloway and all the things that you get on your syllabus in college. But there's some more obscure writings of hers, uh that are really brilliant. Virginia Wolf was the kind of the original stream of consciousness writer before William Faulkner in this country, and you know, took up the mantle of stream of consciousness writing. She wrote a book called The Waves, which is so brilliant because the way it is, I like to did I describe it this way? When you're reading it, you don't know what you're reading yet, and that's what's meant to be. So you're reading it and it's a stream of words, so you're now you're now in a film and a sense in your mind, and you're writing along this visual through words and you don't know what's happening, but something is affecting you as a reader. And you're reading about someone who's feelings, you're reading about their feelings being warm, and they're looking at some shimmering globe, some orb of light, but you don't know what it is yet, and you can see it's kind of precariously holding its position and it has light reflecting in it. And the person, the person in the book who's relating this inner feeling to you as a reader, is feeling this as well. And all of a sudden, the camera starts pulling back. And I say camera, because when you're reading this, it's like this. So the cameras pulling back more and more and more and farther away from this glimmering orb of light, and what are you finding out? What it is? Well, when it finally comes back far enough is you're reading along in this stream of consciousness, you realize that it's a young child laying down in the grass, staring at a drop of dew on a blade of grass. And the feeling going through this young child's heart in the warmth of the sun, staring at a drop of dew on a blade of grass. And to me, that's brilliant literature. And so anyway, I wrote an essay about this, and um, I got picked to go study at Oxford and I studied the Bloomsberry group there, you know, Conrad and Lawrence and James Joyce and and Virginia Wolf. But my focus was was really Virginia Wolf, because I just she's so brilliant. Um And so anyway, came back and from that and went back into the business. Before I became a lawyer, did some films with Tony Curtis, who is legendary as you know, um and and some you know, some great actors that my wife doing one of the one of the films I did, and thirty five years later and three children later and a granddaughter or later, here we are and then you know, went out to law school after leaving that business. Do you think, because I wonder when I listened to you talk about that story, and and really when you tell stories in general, you are such a storyteller. And and when you discuss this Virginia Wolf book and you talk about waves and and and what it was like to realize it was the child, what I hear is the ability that you have to put yourself in someone else's shoes. You're in the story, you're feeling the feelings, you realize who it is you see from their perspective. You talk about, you know, working with Tony Curtis or law school, the things you learn from your parents. There's so much about your life that has informed you by looking at the world through other people's eyes. And it's striking me in this moment as well as I know you, I'm realizing I'm learning something new that of course you're such a phenomenal person to have in our legal sphere because you truly take the time to look at what's happening through the eyes of the people experiencing it. Yeah, I thank you, and I do feel that way sincerely. And when people say why why are you running for judge rather than something else, you know, whatever it may be, I say, because it really is necessary. You know, I really believe that when you make a decision that's going to affect people day to day, that you have to have that empathy, that that and that's why I said earlier on, I really think it's important for people to have life experience, years of seeing so many different things before they're going to sit in a position to make a decision. Or if you're on the appellate court, if you're writing an opinion, which is where I could very well end up being and I would like to someday, because you're then writing the law as precedent that others will follow and say, this is the law that judge or justice Barskian wrote, He he wrote this, So who's the person that's writing that? Now, who's the person And even on the Supreme Court, you know, when an opinion comes down, you know, one person authors the opinion on the Supreme Court. Others concur or join in it, but one person authors it. And so who is that person? You know, who is the person who is saying this is who you can love, or this is where you can travel to, or this is this is how you will be able to be, this is how you were to behave in our society. They're dictating that. Who is the person who's handing down that decision? Boy, you want that to be somebody who really has that kind of empathy and deep feeling, because when they're writing, you want them to be writing for people generally and for that, but through their heart, you know, through their heart, you know, because there are I mean I again, I've been practicing law for this will be my thirtieth year next year, and I tell people, you know, when I talk about, you know, my experiences in the law, I said, look, there are you know a lot of people on the bench, thousands and thousands and whatnot. I've been in and out of court, both trial court and appellate. I've done appeals as well. And I say to people, why what drove me to want to be a judgment? That one of the things is that I felt I came out of the courtroom too many times shaking my head saying, did this particular judge even read my papers? Even read my papers? So so you've been in courtrooms where you're arguing a case and you realize the judge on the bench doesn't even know what the case is pretty much. I mean. The reason I hate to say that is because I am running to become part of a group of people that I'm now saying something that's critical. But you know what that has to be done because my I you know, I want to be an active judge in a sense that I want to improve the judiciary, whether it's by my own being an example and attracting people like minded to the bench that over time will spread out and improve the general judiciary, or how I write, you know, But yes, to answer your question, yes, I have come out of court saying to myself that it is clear to me that this particular jurist did not read my papers, was not prepared to make a ruling yet ruled, yet ruled. So that's concerning because as again as I said earlier, on these decisions canna affect people's everyday lives. So you know, you want to make sure if you're going to be a judge, you're prepared. You you know that you're going to give the you know, their two sides to every case, that you're going to give them their full due, their full hearing. So if you're going to be a public servant and you're taking the position of somebody who's going to render a decision, you want to give them at least the respect that you're going to read all of their papers and all of their arguments. You're certainly not going to agree with everybody because you have to make a decision ultimately, and your job is to apply the law to the facts as a judge. But you've got to give them that respect. So I'm curious when you talk about your your thirty years practicing law to get here, I wonder about a couple of things really that come to mind. What what was it like to argue in a courtroom for the first time? And I want to know about complex litigation. And I would love for you to walk me and everyone listening through what that what that really means. I'm curious about what's been happening for the last thirty years, I guess, so, so, how did it all begin Well, it's funny because it really flowed from my background in the arts, because remember what I said before, there are two separate paths. Well, for me, they ended up becoming married and they came together and it became a synergy or synthesis, synthesis in some way because even though back then I thought, my god, why do I have to be Why do I have to choose to be only an artist or an academician? You know, why do I have Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? And I found a way that they're not. And that's what I'm doing. That's where we are today. Because to answer your question, my first time arguing in court, well I came. I was standing where most people are quivering because it's the first time standing in a courtroom, whether it's before a judge and you're arguing what's called emotion, which is a paper and you're arguing your case for this particular ruling, or whether you're in a trial, which is if it's a bench trial that means the judge is deciding alone, or if it's a jury trial with a jury you're standing in front of a bunch of people. So how is this synthesis? How is this marriage happening for me? Well, I am now in a sense, performing in the courtroom. But it's real. The script is not written and make believe it's it's real. So I have to convince like an actor would have to convince an audience, I have to convince the judge or a jury. There's your audience of your position. And that's what actors do. They learn their part, they live their part. They then presented in their performance, and they have to convince ultimately the audience of the reality of the real nous, if you will, of what their performances. That's what a lawyer, a good lawyer does in the courtroom. Their script is there is the facts, and they write their opening statements and their closing statements, which is their argument and closing it certainly the argument, and that is a script that they're following and they're presenting it and performing it. So my first time, I actually was very calm because I had come from the arts, and I had come from a position of having to perform on stage in New York. You know, I did a stage before as well, and and uh then now I'm in a courtroom, and so the senior attorneys when I was a young attorney. The senior attorneys would talk about, how is it that you went in there and won that argument you just started here or what have you. But I think it's really because I was able to marry those two things. I was able to be very comfortable and find the truth in what I was arguing and present that and convince the audience, which here was a judge of that truth. And so now from that first moment on to the next thirty years, which led into the various kinds of litigation I did, which did ultimately lead to most of it being complex litigation, and I'll explain what that is. All of that work, I then was able to grow marrying those two concepts that the ideas of, you know, the arts and academia, bringing them together in the law, because the law is an art, you know, it's an art, and to apply that art, you know, in a courtroom or or in an appellate court where you're arguing an appeal from a trial court decision, which I've done in state as well as in federal court. In Watchington, d C. I had the honor of arguing actually against Paul Clement, the former Solicitor General who was a Solicitor General of the United States under George Bush. He argued all of the White House's arguments, if you will, in front of the Supreme Court. Anyway, we had an appeal one on one against him, and he gave me the highest compliment by walking across afterwards and shook my hand and said, that was really a brilliantly argued argument, Mr percy Kian, And I was. This was years ago, but I felt so honored to have somebody really give me that kind of a compliment. But anyway, so in my in my work, what complex litigation is in the law, there are cases, so you have, you know, regular cases that everybody knows about, whether it's an injury or whether it's a medical case, or whether it's a contract dispute. But there's a thing called the complex panel, and that's where cases go that are not just so simple. You know, it can be cases where there could be so many law firms involved because there's so many parties involved that they're naturally in this big, big web of issues. And it can also be issues that are multiple as well. And so the courts sometimes determined to assign something to the complex panel, and those judges are typically those that are in a position, you know, intellectually his experience wise, in a good position to handle those kinds of cases. So to be on the complex panel as a judge, you have to have that kind of background. As a lawyer, you have to be somebody who has really good organizational skills to be able to take those, you know, those cases which are kind of deep webs of issues and parties and be able to untangle them in a way and and and litigate them in a way where everybody is getting their fair hearing and everybody gets their fair justice if you will, you know, in my cases, you know, some some matters, like constitutional law cases sometimes end up on the complex panel. You know, I've done a lot of eminent domain and inverse condemnation, which may he's getting a little too technical, but it's a Fifth Amendment case. And in our constitution, there's one of the articles the Fifth Amendment actually says that the government cannot take your property without compensating you. They can't just grab it and take it. And so whether they're going to put a railroad through you know, your backyard or not, if they're going to do that and claim that they're going to take it by eminent domain. They're gonna have to compensate you for that. Or if the government or one of its agencies damages your property by mistake, maybe their power lines blow up or there what our main bursts underground and ruins your home, like what we just had here with the wildfires and p yes, and that's actually going on right now. We have gas being omitted at Portola Hills. I think it is. There's you know, you can have gas escaping, you know, and the quasi public entities which are these gas companies are kind of not government but then there but in a sense they are quasi governmental. You know, when those things happen, or a water district their water pipe blows up, what have you. You know, your house slides down a hill because the ground is now saturated. Those are called inverse condemnation cases. The government didn't mean to take your property, but what we're saying is that they actually did take it by mistake, so an inverse condemnation. That's also Fifth Amendment cases. And those are cases that I've become kind of a specialist, and it's something I've done many times. So I have a question, and forgive my ignorance, but when you hear people say I plead the Fifth you can. You can plead the fifth whereas you deny, you refuse to incriminate yourself. How are those really different part of that amendment? Okay, great, So there's different articles or clauses in the Fifth Amendment and they're completely separate. I was like, cool, what does to do with your house? Serious? Yeah? So would would the water crisis and flint fall under the under imminent if I if I was representing as as an attorney somebody, Let's say you live there and your children were poisoned? If you will, you couldn't drink the water because the lead was leaking into it because the pipes which are being managed by the state or whatever. Absolutely, that's what it is. And that and and I'm glad to say that in California we always do lead the way out here, and we really do in terms of legislation that you know, whether you call it progressive or whatever you want to call it, it's legislation that, in my view, is the right legislation that's protecting people. You know, we we have statutes that are good in that area. In that inverse condemnation, for instance, Thank god that there are statutes that say if you have one of those kinds of cases, like the flint case, but it's here and you have to go to court. Because of that, you get to recover your attorney's fee and all the costs of experts getting getting all the information about those pipes or whatnot, where normally you don't get those. So most people can't afford to go to court, you say so, so again, that sort of goes back to this idea of us grouping to defend ourselves, to fight for fair wages, to to fight a city that might perhaps be poisoning your water because most of us are not as powerful as the people who are in control. And that's where the courts come in. Yeah, and take that. If you take those steps, the groups forming feel there's a need. In other words, people can't afford to go to court. Their kids are dying from lead poisoning, but they can't afford to hire a lawyer. They can't afford to hire expensive engineers to prove their case and save their lives. If you will get clean water or whatever it may be, well in California, groups can form go to Sacramento and and lobby the legislators to pass the laws that say, okay, now, if you go to court against the government who did this to you, guess what, You're going to get your attorney's fees. You're going to get your expert fees, You're going to get your appraisal fees whenever they are so you can do this. So what that leads to his attorneys taking the case and saying, you don't have to pay me. You don't worry about the cost because I know at the end we're gonna be able to recover it. And I'm confident because we have a statute that says we can. And that's that's where that's where this thing happens. That's what allows lawyers to show up and do pro bono work for people in cases like this, Well they can do the pro bono is a little different. So bo means you're never going to bono and just volunteering contingency work. Right. So it's where lawyers say, you know what I'm gonna I'm a I'm an Ivy League educated lawyer, i have thirty years of experience, I'm great at what I do, and you know what, I'm gonna go win this case for you and the client. Says, but I couldn't possibly afford to do this, and they can say, don't worry about it. At the end, Yeah, not gonna have to pay me. I'm gonna there's a good case. There's a statute out there that says, don't. They're gonna have to pay me separately, not don't worry about it. And that's how these people get justice. That's really cool. So you've argued before the U. S. District Court of the California State and US Courts of Appeal. You're a member of the bar of the U. S. Supreme Court. What is it? What is it like, you know, as a person who's clearly so empathetic, You've got all these accolades, you've been in all these courtrooms. Is it? Is it an emotional as well as an intellectual experience for you when you are arguing on behalf of people and their rights. Yes, in a singular word, yes, I can tell you that when I sat there in Washington, d c. In the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals, which is across the street from the White House, waiting for the justices to come out. It was a three three member panel to come out and take the bench and this is a beautiful ornate courtroom and you sit there. And I was sitting there waiting, and I was alone, sitting at my table, and this was not long after my father passed away, and I was sitting there thinking, I wonder, you know, if my dad, if he could see me sitting here right now. And I got very emotional just sitting there. I really kind of welled up in a sense. I'm glad I was alone because I was you know, I didn't have a client there, as as one doesn't in an appellate court. You know, you sit there as a lawyer, As an appellate lawyer, you're pretty much alone. And I sat there and it was an empty courtroom because I got there early, and I was glad that I had that moment to feel that. But it was an emotional moment for me because I thought about him and his life and what he had done and that I followed him ultimately, and thought about what he would be thinking to see me sitting there about to have an argument made to this High court. And it was very moving and emotional for me, you know, to do that. I was very proud of that at that moment and kind of motivated me. Into my oral argument. When you think back on your career in the cases that you've argued, is there an example that stands out to you about the importance of justice and how it affects the everyday man or woman in America. Absolutely, it goes to those cases where I use the word inverse condemnation, and I was explaining that the reason I go back to that case, and I've done many of those, is because I'm representing really people who could never afford to be represented, first of all in these kinds of cases. But these are everyday people of every kind. These are homeowners, people whose biggest investment in their life is their home. It is, you know, and sometimes it's a very precarious thing. They're living month to month, whether it's on Social Security. I mean, I'm representing people who may be into early nineties who their home is their life security, which has been damaged, which is on the precipice of going down a hill because of what happened. They're gonna lose everything, or or a young couple who have two young children who are getting by month to month. And the thing that's so wonderful about these cases is I represent a large group typically So the group that I'm representing is comes from all walks of life, So whether it's the elderly living on Social Security, or whether there's the young couple with young children, or anybody in between. And it's so interesting to me because they're from all all all uh, politics are not part of it. There from all quadrants, if you will. So I'll have elderly, I'll have young, I'll have this party that party. Politics don't enter into it. They can be all kinds of people because I spend so much time with them and they're so it's such an intimate representation because I go to their homes and I sit in their homes, they're damaged homes, and I meet with them in their living rooms time and time again that I get to know them their families, you know, in their homes, which is very intimate um and very private, and so I get to know who they are, you know, and maybe accidentally I get to know what they're thinking is maybe on issues of the world. And I realize as I'm sitting there representing, say a group of same representing a group of twenty homes, say in a particular case, so I have twenty homes and these all these kinds of people and I get to know them all. I realize through that one case what our whole society is made up of, all these different kinds of people who are all trying to get by day by day, and they all have different thoughts and different dreams and and whatnot, but they're all trying to get some justice right. And so they hand that case to me, and I go in and I fight for them. So when I'm in the courtroom and I'm putting them up on the witness stand, I'm so proud when I put up a ninety year old man who's testifying in front of a jury about his home being damaged, because I have such confidence that the jury is going to rule in his favor, in their favor, because these are real people who need their help as a jury, and in the end of the day, they did. It's so cool. It just makes me think about how you get to have these experiences over and over again that reinforced that really the whole point of all of this is for us to be in it together and to advocate for each other and and to help our neighbors, whether we know them or not. Yeah, And I really really see that in these cases. So so what was it? When was the moment that, with this thirty year career and all your experience with people, what was the tipping point where you said, you know, I was going to retire, but now I'm going to run for judge. Because those are very disparate realities. So what did it? And I will that's a good question because as you know, I could make I could make that turn and say okay, let's wind it down, and there are probably a lot of people wondering why did you do this? And there are people who expressed that to me. So yes, there was a very bright line moment. It was the Brett Kavanaugh hearings. I was watching the Bret Kavanaugh hearings because it was somebody who was looking to become a Supreme Court justice. Very important to watch that, and I'm very interested, of course, as we've been talking in knowing who wants to be on the court. That's going to determine what the law is and how we are going to live our lives. So of course I'm going to be very interested in that. So I watched that hearing and what led up to it, and what I was so shocked about was more than anything else, was the disrespect that I saw being displayed by the candidate who wanted to be on the Supreme Court, Mr Kavanaugh. And I'm not even commenting this is a political this is not even having to do with party. I'm talking about basic common core decency. Yes, because he sat there attacking the people who were asking him questions, which is their job to do, to advise and consent to to to find out, to inquire of a person's character and background to determine whether they're going to confirm that this person should be have the honor of sitting as one nine of the nine justices on the Supreme Court who make the law in this country. That's their job as a panel of senators in this particular case, And so I watched the back and forth and the give and take and whatnot, and there was such disrespect. So what I meant by that is I saw, for instance, Amy Clomture was one of the people questioning him. I respect her and her background. She's quite a centrist, you know, by the way, um and was asking a former prosecutor, attorney general and whatnot, And she was asking questions to inquire, you know, of this particular candidate in a very even reasonable way. But he started attacking her personally, you know, started talking about her father and alcoholism and whatnot. And then he started talking about himself and his enjoyment of beer and whatnot in this And I started and I was watching this, and I said, am I watching a confirmation hearing for someone to be on the Supreme Court? Or am I watching some sort of you know, I didn't you know play that you know, is being put on about something that happened someday. I I to me, it was more, it was that unreal to me, you know, and and it really affected me. So I continued to watch, and I watched questions being asked, as they do because when you have somebody vying to be on the Supreme Court, they do background and you know, investigations and they all do. Everything that comes up is then fair game. So there was questioning about things that he had done in his younger years and whatnot. Now my personal experience is, I, you know, went to the kinds of schools in the Northeast, very similar to Mr Kavanaugh. So I know these people. I've I've seen the behaviors, you know, what the culture is. I do because I was there, and so I I witnessed around the same time that he was there, were I'm actually older than him, but we're pretty close to contemporaries. I I when he spoke when when it was alleged what had happened back then and the kind of conduct that was going on back then, my response was, oh, of course I know this. And what I did was I communicated with my colleagues and friends who I went to school with back then at these kinds of schools. Every single one of them said, of course, we all know that that is the kind of thinking, the kind of behavior that went on back then, and they didn't even question it. So that for those people who no that world and and understood that to be the case, then you move into the hearings and you say, Okay, if that is the case, let's see how this person handles the questions about what occurred back then and whatnot. And then you look at somebody's character, you look at their intellect, because they're answering questions on the spot. I mean, it's you know, you're not going to go to a room and think about drafting an answer. You're going to answer on the spot. And that's what I was watching for, and I was not at all impressed with the way he was responding. He started, I don't know if he was sincere about it, but he started getting emotional and you know, crying, and but it was you know, goes back to I guess I'm reaching back to my studying Shakespeare at Columbia University. But if thou dost protest too much, you know, when somebody starts really protesting that way, you start to think, you know, is you know, you know, how sincere is it? How truthful is it? So that was a battleground that confirmation hearing. But my takeaway from it, and I tell people this, I don't have a problem with there being a battleground at a confirmation hearing. I don't have a problem with that. Okay, if people want to battle things out the democratic way, it can be messy sometimes, It's what Obama used to always say, democracy is messy. You know, He's right, you know, sometimes it can be messy, and sometimes you know, you know, you have to go through those things to get to an end point. So I don't have a problem them with their being you know, a kind of somewhat argumentative hearing, especially someone trying to get on the Supreme Court. But what I don't like is to witness what I consider it to be the lack of temperament, the lack of temperament that you certainly want to see in any judge, whether it's a trial court judge, which is what I'm running for, or a Supreme Court justice. You want someone who has the temperament, you know, the even handedness that they're going to impart justice equally. And I didn't see that, and so that to me was my bright line point when I when I witnessed that hearing, I said to myself, I have to do something about this, because right now people are saying, get off the bench, get so to speak, you know, get off the bench, get get out of your seats, and start to be the change, you know, start, you know, stop doing you know, whatever your successful at. You know, it's time to enter public life to try to make a change. And people started to do that, and you know, I saw people doing that. But when I saw that hearing, it pushed me off, saying, okay, I need to get involved. And my involvement at that moment was very clear. It was it has to be in the judiciary because it wasn't just the Kabiner hearing. But for the last few years, the judiciary has been attacked by politicians. I mean we've seen yeah, I mean, they wouldn't let Merrick Garland take a seat again, a centrist. You had the Senate holding up yes a hearing. Their weaponizing our judicial system, which is meant to be a check on the Senate, not meant to be an arm of the Senate. The judiciary is supposed to be an independent branch of our government that helps us to have I think about it like a stool. You know, we're supposed to have these three branches that hold us up, and when one branch becomes kind of hijacked by another, we've lost. Let me make it one step further. There are three co equal branches of government, the judiciary being one of them. Of course, the legislative branch of the executive branch, but the judicial branch is sacro sanct because you have to have a place, a sanctuary where the other two branches battling out as much as they want to between executive legislative, they have to have a place to go to have the have it settled, and it has to be respected as the final word. And in the last few years you've had attacks from one of the branches of government against the judiciary, saying things like this judge can't rule because he comes from a Mexican background, or this judge can't rule because he's an Obama judge, or this girl can't judge because he's a Bush judger. Whatever, And you have the Chief Justice coming out and saying, hey, we don't have political judges. You know, are judges are judges you know now having said that, but we do now don't Yeah, right now, I tell people we have to stop living in a five to four world. And what I mean by that is and it happened today in the Ninth Circuit we had, unfortunately a ruling that I said before was seven to four, while it happened to be seven judges were from one party, four judges were from the other party. In the Supreme Court, you'll have five judges for one party, four judges from the other party. In the year two thousand, you had the presidency determined not by the electorate but by the Supreme Court because they made the determination five judges from one party and four judges from the other. So this is the way I have to come down on it being a non judicial candidate, our nonpartisan candidate. We can't ever have rulings coming down strictly along hard ideological lines. That is not the way of America. That is not what we're about. And that's what's been going on well, and it frightens me because you see things like Justice Kennedy is stepping down for no reason to make room for a politically appointed judge, when you see debts being paid off mysteriously for people who work in the judicial branch, as they were with Brett Kavanaugh, and then suddenly he gets a seat and Justice Kennedy is out, and again Kennedy's son is involved, and every everything feels like it's been polluted by politics and it's not meant to. So I wonder when you think about that, because you're I know this about you, because I know you. One of your favorite words in the English language is integrity. You you live it and you breathe it, and you you encourage everyone around you when making decisions, to make those decisions from their integrity. And I'm I'm curious now that we see the integrity of the Court of of the Judiciary being compromised how do you think, I mean, where do you think we are in terms of integrity and how do you think we get back to more of it? Boy, that is such an important question because the answer to the question could quote save the Republic end quote. I mean it's that important. When you mentioned Justice Kennedy, I mean that that's the fact that was reported that his son had some connection whereby when he or I should say Justice Kennedy through his son had some connection that it made it questionable when he suddenly retired because he wasn't ill why he did that at the time. So I don't even need to make comment on it. It's been reported, so that means that something other than pure integrity, pure justice, pure fairness was at play. And so are we all perfect people, know, but we are too far from perfect these days. So we need to get closer back to that. We need to strive to get back toward it, so we don't have to set a bar that says we all must be pure and perfect, but we're way too far from it right now. And so my feeling is that and this is why I again with the Kabiner hearings, I kind of left out of my seat and said Okay, I'm going to do something about this in the judiciary. Is because even though I'm running for Superior Court, which is a trial court, and people say, well, Tom, that's that's the trial court. It's not the Supreme Court. But you can't run for the Supreme Court. But um, but it's the first step. And the reason I'm doing it is because I'm not just going to sit on the bench and and just stop there. I want to be an active judge. And what I mean by that is I want to be able to represent the judiciary as being the person who is defending the judiciary and it's pure sense in its truest form, and taking that defense wherever it has to go, whether it's in Sacramento in the state of California, and and doing whatever I need to do to improve the laws so that we improve the judiciary, whether it's through passing laws, working with state legislators. I've already had discussions with some and they've said, I'd love to sponsor that bill. And this is great thinking. But the idea there is to maybe improve the law so that those who end up on the bench are the kinds of people you want on the bench, those with deep integrity. Those were the experience and the background that end up there. So there are things that can be done to improve the judiciary, to get better people on the bench. I really want to be that kind of person where people say, Jesus, I've never seen a judge out there talking about the judiciary and and kind of inspiring us too as a as a people to try to find ways to improve it, and really carrying the torch of fairness, you know, as she is drawn, you know, our our lady judgment, she's blindfolded, holding the scales. You know, they're meant to truly be unbiased and fair. And I think getting back to that would be very exciting. And if you notice on Lady Justices, not relegacy of blindfolds, but those scales are even, Yeah, they're even. And I you know, I keep telling people that. Um sometimes when I go out to talk to clubs and organizations and whatnot, you know, on this campaign trail, and they say, well, you know, how would you rule this way? How would you rule that way? While the Code of Judicial Ethics, which applies to candidates as well for judge, you know, we're not allowed to make comment on things that are presently before the court or could come before the court, and I understand that. So what I tell people is remember that Lady Justice is blind, and she also is holding scales that are equal, so that if it's true justice, both parties come in and the judge should be absolutely equal. There should be no tipping of that scale either way. And you have to have that facility as a judge. You have to have it. So I would love to attract I would first of all, love to win this campaign so I can begin to become the change. But I would love to attract people to the bench, and I may if I win and become a judge, I may go out there and start looking for those people who are like minded and encourage them to run, you know, to be a judge because they're they're they're the good people. You know, they're the kind of people you want to see there to commit to that kind of to commit service, to do it. So this episode is coming out right before your election, which I'm very excited about. So if you're in l A and you are listening to this, please go and vote Tom Parsigian for seat one fifty. But as we talked about earlier, a lot of people don't really know how to do this kind of local research. Maybe maybe don't pay as much attention to the smaller elections. Do you have a message for any of those people who maybe weren't planning on showing up on March three? You know about the impact of these things, well, the impact is tremendous. First of all, everyone. I think I mentioned way earlier on about this sense of despair, that sometimes people have a loss of hope or or whatnot. And I tell people, don't despair, don't lose hope, because the way that you feel better about it is to use the power of your vote. That the voting power is the most important, treasured protected power that you have. You have to exercise it. Don't think I have something else to do or it's too difficult to look into this. You've got to exercise your vote because it's the only way we can make this change. So as far as judges go, there are ways you can do that. I know there's not much time. Certainly, I'm I would love for you to come vote for me and see one fifty, but there are also you'll see other judges on the ballot. So how do you find out about that? Go to the websites of these people, see what they stand for. And it's very easy because if you just take their name and you can go online and find out who's running for Judge. You can look at it any sample ballot and you can put their name in a Google search and you'll see, let's say their name is Smith. I guarantee you it'll be Smith for Judge dot com or something, you know, and Google will get you there and you can find out, you know, who are these people, what are their backgrounds, you know, what do they think? And by the way, who are they supported by? You know, I mean, I'm so proud to be supported by so many great organizations you know around this county, like you know, Stonewall Democratic Club is you know, has endorsed me, you know, I mean that's you know, a particular group, a particular organization that represents a certain group of people who really have the needs for people to have empathy and and and and have you know, understand people's trials and tribulations in day day to day life, you know, or you know, here in in l A, I'm you know, endorsed by the l A Democratic Party. Well, I also got a qualified rating from the l A County Bar Association. Why is that important? And why is that some people something the voters to look into, you know, go to the l A County Bar website and find out how people were rated by them. Why is that important? Because the way you get a rating is so hard, it's so deep. You have to submit seventy five references of judges that you've worked with, have been in court with, of opposing counsel, of co council, of clients that you've represented, of maybe experts that you've used, people that you've used or come in front of in your work as a lawyer, not seven seventy five. And they follow up by surveying every one of these seventy five people, and they call them on the phone, they interview them. So it's really a deep, deep vanning process. So one of the things that simple things that people can do is if you see a list of candidates for judge and you want to find out go to the l A County Bar Association. See how they rated them as qualified or well qualified or possibly not qualified. There are some candidates you know who'll get that rating and and then you can take that into account. Yeah, and something I think is so amazing is that Los Angeles County is actually larger in population than forty two entire states. Are amazing. So the judges here in l A County need to be able to handle a lot. Yes. L A County Superior Court is the largest and most complex trial court in the United States of America. Our county, as you said, is bigger than forty two whole states. So being a judge in this court is critically important. Um, you want good people on the bench. And by the way, California leads the way in terms of its law. State follow our decisions. So when we set president here in California, yes, it's president here in California, but it's also followed by other states. So yeah, it's a big, important county. And can you kind of walk us through the role the role of a judge where you have the role of a judge here in in l A County? What what what will that look like for you? Yeah? So for me the way it works. And I'm really proud, by the way, talking about endorsements, this is kind of a proud one. It's non political. I've been endorsed by the presiding Judge, Kevin Brazil, who is the chief runs the whole court system. That's so cool, I know, and and and the assistant presiding judge who's going to become the presiding judge because there's two year terms next January. So I've gotten the endorsement of both the Chief and assistant Chief. Um. And the reason I bring that up is because Kevin Brazil, who is the present presiding judge, is the first African American presiding judge in the history of Los Angeles County Superior Court. And he's a wonderful, brilliant judge. You know, educated U c l A. Law. But he's more than that. He's my kind of guy. He's he's one of those people that has that deep empathy for people. He's a real if you met him, he just is a just one of the people you meet and you just know he has character, integrity, and empathy. So he's he's endorsed me. And the reason I bring him up is to answer your question. They're the people who make the decision as to where you're put. So when if you win and you're now going to be a judge of the entire county, you have the jurisdiction of this whole county of eleven million people and all these courtrooms. Where does the judge, chief judge here, the presiding judge place you. Well, they take a lot of things into account. Of course, it's going to be your years of experience. You know, how long have you been doing this, fifteen years or thirty years? What is your background? You know, is your background a complex litigation or some other kind, or is your background as a prosecutor. You know you've been doing only prosecuting. You know, is this district attorney and that's your area. So they take all those things into account, and hopefully, as I crossed my fingers, they take into account where you physically live, because how how easy is it in l A traffic to get to the court house you're going to be assigned to. Yeah, the commute. So for me, I crossed my fingers and pray that I get assigned to the Central, which is downtown what's called the Mosque Stanley Moss Courthouse, because I could actually take the subway from my house to court. And as I've told people, I'm going to be quote judge on the train right it's a court. I want to be able to take public transportation to court every day and I would be so thrilled to do that, you know, and it's wonderful because most people in l A don't even know that we have subways, but we do, and I take them whenever I can, So you know, there he would assign to the courts, and then my role would be as a trial judge making decisions, uh, you know, whether it's in front of a jury or myself alone, which is a bench trial or a jury trial, for whatever comes into court. And I can tell you that they can assign you to do anything. It's up to the presiding judge. You can be doing you know, criminal courts, civil courts, family courts. Yeah, they can put you anywhere, so you could be handling anything. And now that's true for judges around the country. Correct, anyone who's running for a superior trial court, trial court. Okay, so when when we're talking about these different judge ships, and you know, you mentioned to where to go and what to look at here in l A County, but likewise, anyone in any state or county should be able to look up who's running for judge in this next election, and then you would just recommend that they go on Google their records and and look for who in their court system already has endorsed them. Those would be the questions they should Yes, I think they should go to their local county, that county's bar association, the bar associate. Right now, it's not you know, there's so many counties in the United States. Not every county may follow this system, but if they most should. If it's not the county bar, it could be the state bar. They could have a similar thing to start at the county and then check the state, yes, to see if they've done a rating of those judges. Have they have they brought them in for a deep vetting process and then determined what they think about that particular candidate. That's one way to go. And then the next way to go is to look on Google their name. Find out because everyone sets up a website, find out what they're thinking is, because they're going to have on that website, what their view of the world is, how they view things. You're going to get a quick sense of what kind of person this is that wants to be on the bench making these critical decisions. And then the third level is look at who's endorsing them, who's backing them up, what, what kind of people are they who are supporting them, because that's going to give you another sense. So that's my recommendation to voters across the country. Go to your Google this person, go to the local, the county bar or the state or find out if they've been rated, find out what that rating is, and then look at who's endorsing them, and then look on their website to find out what kind of people these are. And please do that because these people are going to end up making decisions in this courtroom that you might end up standing in. And you want these people to be fair minded people who render and administer equal and fair justice to everybody, no matter their circumstance or background. And thank you. Those action items are so hopefully. I love being able to give listeners specifics and I think it's important too to your point, this could just take a little a couple of minutes on an afternoon. You could spend ten twenty thirty minutes if you got really fascinated about something somebody may have, you know, put up. It's not going to take days, but a little bit will really go a long way here and and for anyone listening here in l A County, your website is Parsekian for Judge dot Com. Really simple, and we'll put it in our stories. Guys, you'll be able to swear it up and get it on on the work in Progress Instagram, which brings me, tom My dear to my last question for you, which I ask everyone the podcast is called work in progress. And when you hear that phrase, I'm curious what comes to mind is a work in progress in your life? Right now? Wow? That is that. You just brought us full circle, because that is what I am trying to do. We are we are a work in progress first of all, and work in progress. What that means to me is it's it's it's a teachable uh phrase in a sense that we need to get to work to create progress for me in the courts system. Yes, we need to get to work to create progress. Tom No one has answered that question that way. That's what it is. I love that and that's what I really really want to do. And you know, you know people sometimes say, well, you're running for election, and you know you'll say this or that. No, no, no, no, I really mean this in the deepest, deepest part of my heart and soul that we need to do that. And that's why I'm here and doing this. We're going to get to work to create that progress in the judiciary because it's so important in our country. I love that. I'm just so inspired by you. Thank you so much. I can't wait to vote for you on Tuesday. Good So what's really important to know is that people are voting on Tuesday, March three, and you've got to get out there to vote on March. So on Tuesday, make sure your exercise your power to vote. Indeed, Thanks Tom. This show is executive produced by me, Sophia Bush, and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. Our associate producer is Kate Linlee. This episode was edited by Matt Sasaki and our music was written by Jack Garrett and produced by Mark Foster. This show is brought to you by Krillion Anatomy

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