Whine About It: The D-Word

Published Mar 30, 2023, 7:41 PM

Almost half of all marriages end in divorce. Unfortunately it is a reality for many couples, so Jana is sitting down with Phil Yagoda, creator of TheExit.com, for a conversation about taking the taboo out of divorce.
 
Learn where to find resources if you or a loved one is going through a divorce, and find out some helpful tips on how to live the life YOU want.

Wine Down with Janet Kramer and iHeartRadio podcast. All Right, so on this week's Wine About It Thursday Therapy, We've got His name is Phil Yagoda. So he's a retired Wall Street executive who has been happily married for twenty five years. Has created a website he hopes will be a top destination for people going through divorces and breakups. Phil Yagoda spent more than two decades on Wall Street, including a stint as a managing director at a bank. He launched The Exit in December with content focus on what couples can expect to encounter emotionally and financially during a divorce, and how to navigate the often painful twists and turns. Let's get him up, Okay. I am so excited to have you on because I really can could have used this website about two years ago when I was going through my divorce. But I'm just when I was reading the breakdown, I was like, wait a minute, married guy twenty five years he is doing you know this this website called the Exit dot com. So I'm curious. I mean, I know you've experienced probably through friends and family, but have you experienced a divorce personally, No, Um, honestly, I'm one of the lucky ones. I found my best friend, my soulmate, my rock, my everything, um, twenty five years ago and we've been together ever since. Um, fact, we just had our engagement anniversary. I'm the one who remembers. Okay, that's really cute that a guy remember is an engagement anniversary, because I don't know many guys that would remember that at all. Yeah. My wife's like, all right, enough, it's not a real anniversary, but to me, to me, it really is. It's, um, you know, the day that you kind of came together. And I was like, that was one of the most nervous days I ever had, because up to that point, you know, you're just young, you're going out, you're doing whatever, and you know you want to settle down with the girl your dreams, and you hope she said yes. In fact, it was really cold and she took a couple of minutes. I was like, all right, either say yes or no. But how old were you when you got engaged. I was twenty four, Okay, so young, which is actually, you know, amazing that you guys are still married to this day too, because I feel like a lot of young marriages could potentially also end in divorce. Yeah, I mean, I think when when you look at marriages from any different standpoint, you basically you're taking two people from two different backgrounds, from two different states. In this situation, I was from New York, she's from Atlanta. Um. You know, two different sets of parents, two different sets of growing up like everything that shapes you. Um, you went to different schools, different whatever. Um. And to be able to stay together through all that really is as it's a real fat I'm not to say like it's always been great times you have or whatever, but that's part of any relationship for sure. So how did the exit come about them? If this is something that's I mean, you seem to be in a very happy, happy marriage and you know, for the last twenty five years, So how did this idea even like come to fruition? So in my prior life, I was a Wall Street guy, you know, it was very good math, all that kind of stuff, and really always was there to help people. And I get a lot of phone calls from friends, family, and there was one in particular that this person called and I was about to walk into a meeting and I'm like, hey, you know, Mark, I gotta play it back, and he's like, no, no, you don't understand. She said she wants a divorce. I'm like, all right, that's horrible. But I'm literally like walking into this thing. I gotta call you back, giving an hour, hour and a half. Just look on the internet. Each state's different, and I'll play back two minutes later. Like now I'm already in this conference room. He calls again. He's like, there is nothing on the internet. There's only divorced lawyer ads. I'm like, I got to call it back. Let me just step through this. Later on that day when I got back to my office, and even that night, you know, kept kind of resonating in my head what he said, and I went online. I'm like, oh my god, there really is nothing out there that's going to give you all the information that you would really need when you're going through something like this, which a lot of people would say, you know, it's kind of the toughest times in their lives. You would think that there would be more information out there for something that affects fifty percent of the population. So it's it was kind of didn't really make sense to me. And so I went to a company kind of had them kind of scrub the internet see if I was wrong, I'm like missing something, I'd do whatever, and it came back. There was nothing out there like this where there's a kind of like the web MD of health, but this is the web D of like divorce, where you still can you can go, you can try and find out as much information and you can. Again, everyone's situation is different, so it can be a low generic in different areas, and so you always should go and seek help from a professional. But that being said, you know, in terms of having one place that's going to have so much information you still it's kind of like with web MD you can help diagnose yourself. You still have to go to Mayo Clinic to get the surgery, you still have to go to an attorney to get divorced. But this is something that will hopefully give people the most amount of information where they can not just survive through this, but hopefully strive. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm you know, looking at the site and stuff. You know, one of the things is breakup plans. So when you go to it, it's like there's articles like how divorce mediation can save you time, money, and emotional stress. There's a pet custody plan, how excess you know, keep their pet pop happy? How to find the best divorce attorney for you? Can you diy divorce? It might be easier than you think. And then you have other articles you know about name changes, which lord, that is like the most stressful. I've done it one too many times, the name change thing. It's just like it's stressful. But you know, are these articles written? Are these things that you've just gotten from the internet. Are this someone that kind of works in the exit? No? Actually, so we have a diverse group of writers who are professionals on and basically experts in the field that which they're writing on, and or are their professionals who are published who we go out and commission to go and write articles based on what most people are searching for on the internet. And they go in the interview doctors, lawyers, you know, countance, mental health and wellness experts, because that is something that's very important to me to make sure that people stay as sane as possible through this. I try to tell people like, look at like Ted Lasso in a way, right, like look it stinks now, yeah, but it will. You will get through it. It will get better, and you just have to mentally be prepared to you know, face some situations. I mean, look, if you're not getting along that marriage, going through divorcees is going to be you know, even more stressful and difficult sometimes between the two parties. And so you know, try and advise people. Hey, there's two ways to do it. It could be as confrontational as possible, or you know, try and try and do it the right way. Like you know, try and have as much I try to do with as much class as possible, because everything you do now will affect you later on. Right, you're always going to have a relationship with this person, especially of kids. But whether you own something together, whether um, you know you have to sell assets, buy different things, back, do whatever you have to do within your relationship. You will come into contact with this person again. So just do it, you know, just do it the way you can. Yeah, and you also have a UM so there's breakup, planned finances, children, health and moving on. And you know under the children one which I share with my acts, I've got to two kids and um, you know you have a co parenting advice. How to make the transition between households easier of her parents and kids. I mean, this is all really helpful things like how to manage vacations with your kids in X. I mean that's just these are all things that I would have loved to have had. Um right going going through mine, and um, I love that you're hitting on all you you also hit on there's a domestic abuse story in there. I mean, this is all it's it's hitting every um emotion and every also every step right that you have to go through. And UM, I'm curious to do partner with any any therapy places for the moving on step. Yeah. So the only I guess affiliate partnership i'd say we have is with divorce dot com. Okay, Um, basically if someone can do it on their own, you know, look, divorce is very expensive and so if you have a non high you know it's not a high complict or a non conflict divorce, and you can do this. Divorce dot com to us is you know one wait, what is divorce dot com? Is it just like is that its own lawyer? Can you kind of do it like a like a tax turbo almost you know, you can look at it almost like a legal zoom in a way where um, they'll provide you based on a certain yes, pricing structure, the information and and documents that you need to fill out for them to either follow for you or based again on the different levels. Um, you know, if you want to speak with an attorney or if it's something you really can do on your own. Um, there's like I guess an ala carte menu, but they really are great and I have done a great job and have done many many Um. Divorces online. Interesting, Okay, I'm curious. Have people come to you and started asking you questions about divorce like you're almost a lawyer or someone that It's like, Hey, for example, like my X and I, we didn't have a prenup and then you know, and then I made him sign a post and up. But then I found out later that what it doesn't really hold up more in court. So I'm like, well, what, like why did I even have him signed it? And so there's things that I you know, I would I would probably I'm sure people will be asking you to go well, like like you're almost a lawyer or something. Yeah. Again, at the end of the day, everyone's situation is different, whether it's financial or legal. I mean even the states that you live in, whether it's common common law, or community property. I mean, every every state is different. But yeah, a lot of people have either sent in questions, called up, find you on the street. It's it's it's kind of all encompassing. But there's nothing better than when you feel that you've actually tried to help someone. And in this situation when again you're just there's always one person who's blindsided, right, even if you're going to therapy and doing whatever. Once once you gets served, you're like, oh my god, what just happened. That's the person who is usually so confused, so scared. So I mean, I guess there's so many emotions like they feel abandoned, lonely, helpless, worthless, I thank all these different things. That's the other thing that we're really trying to do with divorce. We're trying to basically reposition it. You know, too many times now divorces looked at it's almost like a taboo, and you know it. I didn't come up with this, but someone once said it's you know, sometimes a good divorce is better than a bad marriage. And so if we can reposition the divorce where it's not a failure, but it's an opportunity to move on and have the life maybe that you wanted. You know, everyone deserves a second chance and so and sometimes third or fourth. But in any of these situations, we want to be here to again guide people the best that we possibly can so they can live that life that they want. Sure, and it's got to feel great, like you said, to have people come up to you and be like, hey, this really helped me or you know, get through and have the resources because like you said, you can one off Google, you know what's better mediation or whatever. But to have a layout of some amazing articles for each step along the way, I mean, that's got to feel really good to know that you're helping people with that through a really through the hardest I mean, I wouldn't wish to divorce on my worst enemy. Yeah, you know it really especially when you have children. Yeah, there's so many different aspects that that these decisions affect. And sometimes even when you have two xs that are going at each other, you know, it could be anything of like you can't use that other house right now, Well, you know, the kids that's closer to where they need to be. You know, whatever situation. Sometimes the spouses are going at each other and it's affecting others, and it's affecting those around you. Um, it could be your family, your friends, your children, and so it really it does feel great when you when you're trying to help someone and if you can ease that burden at all, a lot of times they'll have, you know, clearer decisions instead of you know, when you're all foggy and you have so much stuff going on, Um, we can help them kind of clear their head, kind of you know, be a little bit myopic in terms of what you need to do on your journey. Then I think it's really going to be a success. And we have, um, you know, even Laura Losser, who I don't know if you like, Yeah, she's she's great and she's even an advisor to be to the exit. So you know, it's great when you have someone who really cares. I mean she she does. I think she's great. She wrote this book once. It doesn't have to be this way. Yep, you know, she wants to see things work out, and I couldn't be happier to have anyone working with us. But it's also amazing when you see some people that really have had the means when you're going through this say wow, I wish I had this twenty years ago. But I want, I mean, I hope this really gets going because at the end of the day, I want to make sure everyone who doesn't it doesn't have the ability to reach out to an attorney every ten minutes when you know, you get something else at different texts, at different whatever, that that these people, that everyone out there has that same ability to help, you know, get through again what you said something you wouldn't work, you wouldn't wish on your worst worst enemies. Yeah, and even you know, just some people don't have the support system that other people have, you know, so to be able to or even have the means to do therapy, sould be able to kind of understand and validate people's feelings too during a really tough time. UM is a beautiful thing. That's actually where we're going to be transitioning UM. You know with the site, Like right now, we're really happy with I guess the feedback has been incredible and we're really happy with the launch. But you know, I really want to see the site aside from you know, the content and all that that that we're providing. I also the next part I want to build out is community, because, like you said, a lot of people don't have that that support system. Even if you have a best friend and every time you're going out, you're like, yeah, I see what Mark sent me today or marketed this or marketed or you know whoever is using that name. I don't know it Mark, just you know, I know many marks, but I'm not saying one that's been divorced. Um. After a while, they're like, look, if every time you go out, you're gonna bring this up, like I can't take it. And so even your closest friends sometimes can't be there for you. And so this community part that I want to build about, I guess we'll start more with like a blog type of thing where people will have total anonymity where they can respond and you know, here a difference opinions and questions that will be posed. And then I want to I'm actually starting to talk to someone about using an algorithm to come up with pods where you know, if I'm a twenty five year old who just got divorced with no kids, obviously it's me a lot different than a fifty year old with three kids. So you want people to be able to be in pods where things they want to discuss will be relevant to them. And if they're not happy in that pod, we can you know, you can get out and get into another one. Right, but again with total anonymity and where you can just be yourself. I love that because even I mean I I had a great support system, but sometimes there might be questions that you want to ask that or say, or even just a voice that you might be embarrassed to say or you don't um like. I know, for me, I went like very inward and sometimes I then push people away. So it's easier to just maybe write out feelings or a comment toward to have other people to relate to other people because at the time I was the only one going through, you know, a divorce in my friend group. Now there's a few, unfortunately, but you know, now I kind of can be the voice to be like, I promise you it gets better and you're gonna be okay and you're not going to be alone forever. And I think even just having like that support of other people too in there will will be really nice for the people that are like, you know, because that that's where my dms blow up the most, is like they always say, am I ever going to be happy again? Am I ever going to smile? Am I ever going to find love again? And it's like, I just I know the despair and the bottom where they're at. That's like there's so much beauty outside of it. Just it just sucks the first year like that, there's so many first and that that first year is just really hard. And so to have you know, a place especially to start it, it's like where do you start? Well, the exit, you know, he starts the exit. So I just I love that. Well one thing that I also want to start doing there's basically giving people a way to get back out there, right, So there's gonna be a lot more with dating and you know dressing because look, I mean obviously my wardrobe maybe different if I was you know, going out and trying to you know, meet people all the time and do whatever. Uh. I was having dinner with someone who is it a major law firm and they were like, you know, someone got divorced in my in my firm, they can't to my office, and they said, what's like the cool drink to order? Like I'm going out tonight for the first time and I don't know how long wine like exactly. I mean, it's like so it's right, and so it's amazing that people like they really have to start over. And what what I noticed was there's so much always on the front end, right, you prepare so much for one day when you're getting married, right, whether it's cater or the flowers, the reception hall, the church or or shoal or wherever you're gonna be. But people don't take their time and look at their divorce, which will affect them for the rest of their lives, whether it's with assets or you know, just anything that you're going to be that you had together. And so you know, giving people that kind of comfort also is very important to us. Yeah, I love that. Well, Phil, thank you so much for everything you do. Everyone. If you were, you know, going through that, We're sorry. Having said that, there are places and this is this is the place to go, the number one place, So the Exit dot Com. You'll check it out and you'll find some amazing resources and some great article articles that will help you through this time. And you are not alone. And you will feel that very soon when they start the new community tribe. Right, No one walks alone, yes, exactly, no one walks alone. People have done it before you, they'll do it after you, and then you get to help them along the way. Well, everyone does need a great exit, so there we do exactly. Thank you, Phil, appreciate you, Thank you so much for having me

Whine Down with Jana Kramer

At the end of a long day, nothing is better than winding down and decompressing with a good friend,  
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