Whine About It: Be Better than Okay

Published Aug 3, 2023, 7:25 PM

Jana’s friend Brandi Wilson is an author, coach and speaker who has some incredible advice for finding hope and healing, especially after the end of a marriage.
 
Jana and Brandi have an honest conversation that can help anyone looking to redefine their relationship with faith.
 
And Brandi reveals the way to trust your intuition after your trust has been broken.  

Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

Okay, so this week's Therapy Thursday, Whine about It, we have a very special guest that actually both Catherine and I know. I'm how do I say this, I'm almost having like a hard time tiptoeing around certain things because there's certain things that I had to edit out of maybe something.

That I was working on.

So long story short, the woman that's about to come on has been someone in both of our lives for a while.

I go ahead, I don't know her that well. I do not know her that well. No, I know more of her, so you know her better than I. But yes, I have known of her and her story for a while.

Yeah, and she's we really connected because we were going through the same thing the same time seven years ago. So she has a book out, well, first of her name's Brandy Wilson, and she's she's incredible. But she's got a book out called Better Than Okay, and I'm halfway through it. But it's finding hope and healing after your marriage ends. I even did like a little thing for her on her book just to because it's I just I love I love.

Well.

First of all, I just I love how she writes too. It's just very real. You feel like you're in it. So let's get her on. Welcome to the show.

Brandy Wilson.

Hey, y'all.

Hi Katherine.

I'm wondering if I get to see you.

Yes, I'm usually not on these, and I was like, I want to be there when Brandy is on. So I'm here today.

Yeah.

She had a she had a direct, you know, and I remember that you had mentioned it to me and I was like, all right, Kat, this is my episode with Brandy.

She's like, I'm there.

Yep, I'm here. Yeah, so excited.

That makes me happy. Jana, how are you feeling?

Yeah, I'm feeling all right.

I just got off a flight early morning, you know, four am lobby call, so that was fun. But yeah, no, I'm feeling you know, I'm feeling good, feeling feeling pregnant, feeling feeling the uh you know, every week it's like, oh, this hurts a little bit more.

This is this is harder. But no, it's great.

I'm super grateful and I'm just I'm so proud of you and you know your book is is out better than okay, And first of all, can we I like I was saying in the beginning of the show, I'm like, I feel like I need to maybe tiptoe around certain things. And you know, I've read now I'm halfway through your book, and the things that you share are you don't you don't give it all, right, right?

But also if people google, they would.

Know who you're talking about for sure, Yes, right, yes, so okay, so you start with what you want to share for the listeners that have that don't know your story.

Yeah, so.

You're correct. I did go through a legal edit before the book went to final print, just in order to make sure I was protecting myself. I think I worked really hard for it to be my personal story of how God chose to begin in me, or how God chose to begin a new work in me as I chose to begin again, and to make the story about what He had done in my life rather than what had happened to me. I think, you know, I also have children, so I'm not going to air out dirty laundry in a book about their dad. I wanted to be able to show the strength of how you get through really hard things and continue to keep going. So, yeah, my story started when I was eighteen and met a guy at college who I ended up dating for three years and then was married at that point. So married around twenty one t twenty two, and we were in ministry. He was pastoring a church. We started a church in Kentucky and we stayed there for five or six years before moving to Nashville and starting a church here in Nashville. Cross Point Church, which you know, I really loved being part of. Cross Point, still exists today. It's still thriving. In fact, you attend Jana, that's still your church. I was there for your baptism last year. But we were in leadership at cross Point for fourteen years, and I really loved my life in ministry. I loved being the pastor's wife, engaging with the staff, spending you know, tuesdays at the office doing staff meeting with them, having lunch together, having them to my home, just really doing life with that group of people who had chosen to be part of the staff community at cross Point. And in twenty sixteen, my husband at the time chose to step away from the church and the ministry we had started there, and from our marriage as well as our family and my life fell apart overnight. And we all three know that when your life publicly falls apart, it's been falling apart behind the scenes for a really long time. But I still did not expect the whiplash of everything changing as quickly as it did. So I found myself a single mom at forty two, kind of starting all over and putting the pieces of my life back together. And I realized pretty quickly that the beauty in all of it was that this time I got to put the pieces of my life back together the way I chose. So I wanted to make sure that I was creating the life that I loved living, and creating a healthy life for my boys and ies. We move forward.

In the book, you had said the narrative being repeated was about an overworked pastor who has burned out. The reality was I'd been sleeping alone, not by my own choice, for more than six months. In my heart, I was sure my suspicions were correct. The brokenness went much deeper. Trust had once again been broken, and I was experiencing devastating heartbreak. And so I feel like you give enough to let people know the pain that you were in, and I really like I respect that because I think there was a I would could imagine having that narrative and being like, did you just want to like scream it from the rooftops or like this is this is what happened, and like this is how like hurt I am.

Yes, yeah, of course I wanted to discream it from the rooftops. I think the way it all unfolded, and you both remember, it's just like pieces of information. We're floated here and there, you know, being able to really dig in and find the truth of what was going on to forever or it felt like forever, but definitely a few months for things to unfold. And even in that there was still deception and manipulation, and there was hiding. So I think I just I had been in that scenario quite a few times in my marriage where trust had been broken. There had been a third party who was part of my marriage that had happened a ton a few times I was aware of. I realized at the end there were quite a few times, quite a few people I wasn't aware of and didn't know until the end. I will say, when I was aware of it, we did what we were quote unquote supposed to do and did counseling and you know, kind of tried to work through the problems in the relationship. But when only one person wants to fix a marriage, that's not enough. So I was there willing to try to fix it, put the pieces of our life back together, tried to really be able to get to a point where there was a healthier dynamic. But we have to have two parties who want to do that, two parties each person, the husband and the wife, have to show up being willing to do the work together. And I was the only one willing to do that work. So at that point, I moved forward with the divorce. And honestly, you know, never expected divorce to be part of my story. I don't think anyone does. I mean, you guys are both married. No one walks the aisle on their wedding day and things like, oh, I'm going to give it a good ten years, or you know, when they're opening their wedding gifts, think I'm going to keep this in the divorce and give him that. Or you know, the worst part you know this, Janna, is you don't hold your baby in the hospital and think I can't wait to spend even number of Christmases with you. It is just not a reality that anyone foresees in their marriage.

I want to not pivot, but pivot a little bit. I would love to talk a little bit about your boys and how I just I'm so fascinated by y'all story in general, but just I have so many questions. But just when you decided you wanted to write a book, when you were you know, you were prompted for that. Were you nervous to tell the boys? Were you you know, how did that go down? Or are they worried about it? Like I just can imagine that was probably a little scary.

Yeah.

And one of your chapters too is I googled Dad, and I was like, I got to read this because that's going to be something too where I'm like, they're they're going to google our story one day. And you know, I have left personally a lot of stuff out of my book to protect my children, but there are also some things that you know, they're obviously going to hear or see that you know has been public from both of us, and so I think, you know, obviously they saw the headlines your boys they googled at their school, I think is what you said in the in the book.

But then yeah.

I mean Tikat's question, it's like, did you then say like, hey, guys, I'm writing a book, how do you feel about this?

Or yeah, you know we are like we have a great little family unit, the four of us, I call us us four. And one of the things I did when we moved into this I sold the house that I'd lived in when I was married, bought a new house, new to house, And one of the things I was super adamant about is like, what do I want the values of our family to be? And the first one was honesty, Like this is a house of truth. So I allowed my kids to come to me with anything, and I'm super honest with them as well. And you know, we had to figure that out. But we had all four of us lived under so much deception and so many lies that I just was very clear, this is not the life we live anymore and this home will not function that way. So a lot of questions had been asked before I of my kids and about the reality of the situation before I got to the point of writing the book. My oldest son has heard me speak a few times. My other boys, you know, they see what I post on Instagram, so they kind of know that I'm not going to write a tell all about our life. I feel like I have modeled how to deal with the hurt and the pain that I've experienced and also choose to live a life where I am healing and moving forward. So I think because they have seen that in the life I live, it didn't necessarily scare them. I also didn't write anything that they didn't know. Now, they might not have known some of the details of you know, maybe how I bought the house, or the details of that weekend in Vegas where my husband told me he never ever loved me. They might not have known those details. But as far as the stuff about trust being broken, and my kids are aware of that. They actually when my divorce happened, they knew a lot of information that they filled me on that I was still trying to put the pieces of life back together. So I was really clear when I told them I was writing a book, like, if you have any questions, I'll answer them. My oldest son has read it. He loved it, super complimentary, told me he was going to take some of my tips from the dating chapter O life, which was interesting. My other two have kind of skimmed it, flipped through it, you know, haven't finished it fully, but have both said like, yeah, we think it's great, and any questions we have will ask you when we finish reading. So I've just left that door open for them to be able to ask any questions. You know, the I Google Dad thing, I think there were a couple. I think when my oldest son, for instance, was reading that and he saw I Google Dad, he has, you know, heart stopped for a second and he was like, she's going to go there. And then the chapter is really about telling your kids age appropriate truth, so it's not necessarily about what was found when he googled, but it was about the weight he carried because that's the reality of his life. And then the conversation he and I had following his admission that he had googled his dad.

Right in the beginning of the book too.

I love that you you start off by saying, you know, it's obviously the book that you never wanted to write or to have, and then same for the people that you know pick it up. But you go to first to the first thing I want you to hear is I'm sorry. I'm sorry for your heartache. I'm sorry for your shattered dreams. I'm sorry you're putting the pieces of your life back together. And I remember talking to Lisa Turkers about that. You know, just women in our situation normally, or in a lot of you know, hurts full situations, you don't really get the apology you ever want or deserve or and so you know we had, we had I believe discussed that too. And I'm curious, how many years has it been now since your divorce? Six and a half six and a half years?

Wow, yeah, we were separated a year before, but yeah, six and a half years.

So I'm curious have you did you ever receive the sorry that you felt you deserved?

Yeah? No, and I don't think I ever will. And I'm okay with that.

Because I definitely know you know the route that I how I got mine for myself.

But like, how did you? Yeah, how you? How did you walk through that?

Yeah? I think forgiveness is a process, and sometimes I think we jumped to forgiveness too quickly. And then I also think, you know, Janna, you know this, and sharing kids. It's like I have forgiven for a lot of the stuff, but there are still issues that pop up that I have to continually work through the forgiveness process with. So for me, a lot of that was my own healing journey of being able to you know, I remember one of the things I did. I was actually at on site doing the Living Centered program and a program Oh my gosh, it's excellent. One of the things I did was I wrote down everything that he had done that hurt me, you know, all the way down to like using my miscarriage as an illustration in a book and not telling me until I read it, you know, like details of our life that were really hard for me to navigate, and I wrote it all down. I had a couple of pages. I had a friend there that I was close to, and I just said, I need to read these out loud. So he met me outside by the fire pit. I went through and I read every single offense out loud, and then after I tore it up and burned it. It just allowed me to be able to release a lot of that anger and frustration and disappointment that I had been carrying, so I could get to a point of being able to extend forgiveness even though I'd never received an apology.

Did he know that you were writing this book.

He has referenced it a few times in communication, but not specific so you didn't you didn't.

Tell him like before, like, hey, I have a book coming out. Okay, No, I've always wondered like how to how certain people approach it because I when I was talking to my legal my legal team at HarperCollins, I was like, you know, legally does he get or read or like cause it yeah, they go through legal passes and everything, and you know, for me, I was like I I I ended up just going I just want you to know I do have a book coming out. And what I said to him, I was like, it's not about you, like, it's truly about my journey. Yes, my our stories are in there kind of like what you've put in here, like your stories, but it's about your growth and your healing. And that's what I was, you know, trying to convey. But I think you know, it's it's just it's tough because I'm like, do you want to read it like beforehand or I'm like nothing, I'm not going to change anything, you know. I'm like, it's it was like, trust me, I've left a lot out, you know. I'm like because it's.

Really not about.

You can later exactly, but it's like it's protection for the kids, you know, and that's you know, so that's I get why you left certain things out. Yeah, but you know, yeah, the sorry piece, I was just curious if he end up coming back.

But that tracks well, here's my question with that, And I keep taking it kind of back to the kids, and a lot of it I think is because my parents got divorced when I was older and I didn't know anything, and so I went through, you know, my mom was kind of the one that left the house, that was the one that I'm leaving. So I just went through this assumption that she did X, Y and Z, and We're not going to have a relationship. I want nothing to do with her. How do you handle that with the boy? Like how is their relationship with their father with knowing what they know, and like, how do how do you help handle that situation?

Yeah?

I honestly stay out of their relationship with their dad unless they come to me with something. My kids at this point are twenty two, nineteen and seventeen, so to going to college, high school, and it got a lot easier when they could drive themselves on the weekends that they go there. You know, I have the kids the majority of the time. It's like a seventy thirty split, so they're with me the majority of the time. So I really am the one who steps in and I do all the doctor's appointments and the parenting, you know stuff. But as far as their relationship, if they want to come to me to talk about something, I am open to allowing them to be a play, allowing myself to be a place that they convent. And one of the things I try to do, Catherine is definitely affirm what they're feeling so that they learn to trust their gut. I think one of the things that kept me so locked into the marriage and the dysfunction and the unhealth of that marriage is I was married to someone who was a pastor of a super successful church, one of the fastest growing churches in the nation. And everyone in my life told me how amazing he was. Everyone was telling me how awesome, you know, his messages were, how they changed their life, all of that kind of stuff. The staff loved working with him, So I almost adopted this mentality of I guess I'm the problem if the person that I see on stage and the person in my home are not the same person then, and everyone's telling me he's amazing that. I guess I'm the problem because when I had those intuitions, no one was affirming those for me. So therefore I felt like I couldn't trust myself. I couldn't trust my gut. I couldn't trust, you know, my women's intuition because it went against everything that everyone else was telling me. So when my kids come to me and they want to have a discussion, I end up having that discussion with them, and I affirm the truth of the situation. I affirm the reality I'm not gonna talk terribly about their dad because I know that's not healthy for them. I'm also, you know, I try. When I'm communicating with him, I separate, like am I responding to my kid's father or am I responding to my ex husband. I can be a lot more grace filled and kind when I'm responding to my kid's father than I can when I'm responding to my ex husband. So I think when kids come to parents with questions and they say, you know, something to the effect of like, it's like he is always lying. I don't think a mother should ever say back, your dad's a liar. She can affirm your dad is incapable of telling the truth. So I know that's really hard for you to be able to have conversation with him. Now, it's the same reality. It's just saying in a gentle way and also affirming what they're realizing. The truth of the situation is.

Yeah, you basically said in the book, Yeah, he was saying like your dad is a liar, one approach you could take to affirm their feelings, and then saying your dad has an inability to tell the truth. So it's the same information, different delivery. Firms your child is experiencing, but doesn't use harsh language. And I again, I've just we've talked about it before on here, but like I know someone that's dealing with that parent, you know, just that toxic you know, talking bad about the other parent to the kid, and the kid just has so much anxiety and it's just like filled with it, and it's like oh God, and you know this person's calling and like you know, it's like, oh I hate that because I'm like I don't want anyone to feel that anxiety or have the other parent. And my mom when my parents got divorced. My mom was like, this is my relationship with you. Your dad has to make your own his own relationship with you. And so my dad would, you know, call and be like, well, tell the kids they need to see me. And she's like, I don't need to tell the kids. If they want to see you, they're going to come see you. And I was at the age where I knew of things going on, so I'm like, I didn't want to see him, and that was my choice, and that was his relationship to mend, not hers. She's like, I didn't cause this. I don't have to mend y'all's relationship. It is yours to mend. And that's something that I always remembered, like even now in this situation where I mean, obviously you know I have Disney told the story to my kids, like why we weren't together.

I'm like, well, we're just better off as friends, you know. Yeah, so that's my like Disney PG.

But you know, one day when she asked and wants out the conversation and age appropriate, I'll be like, you know, what, what do you you know? And there again, there's certain things I will not tell them just because I don't ever want them to have that version of their dad, because I think by that time, hopefully they'll they'll they won't even need to ask because they'll have the version that they know for sure.

Yeah, it's just such a good point because it's it's such a happy medium because you know, my parents to do my dad didn't do that, but I would have loved to have been affirmed with I know that your you know your father is incapable. You know. So it's just it's just so fascinating to me because I think it's just really important for people to hear, you know, both versions of how you should act on both sides of it as a parent, and how to be honest but not bash like that's that's got to be a really hard I don't envy all for that because that's got to be very hard but so important.

Well, and it's interesting too when you go back to what you said about when you're on the phone and I do the same thing. I'm like, Okay, when I'm talking to him, it's like, I have to stay in my you are the father of my children, you are not max husband. But it's hard because something came up a couple of weeks ago where we both just got activated with our past stuff and I'm like, I don't care how many years removed we are, these triggers are still there and they still affect me the same way, no matter how much therapy or whatever. And we both were just like and we had to were like, all right, we're in our old marriage and we need to hang up because this is so not healthy.

Yes, but it's hard to do.

It's very hard, yes, But yeah, when you can look at it, just like, as you know, the father, I'm like, well, you're not bad. But then I'm like, ooh when I think of you. But then sometimes when I think about that, I'm like, wait a minute, I can't trust you, don't let you in.

So it's like a weird yeah line.

Well, and keeping that in mind as your kids get older and they have relationships with them, and if things come up where they feel like they're not I'm not saying that will happen, but if things come up or they feel like he's not being honest with them or whatever, and then how you handle that.

Yeah, I wouldn't be like, well, welcome to my life. I'd be like, well, you know, that's what I think that's what. That's what I wouldn't have said, well, welcome to the seven years of my life.

Good.

No, I would obviously be like, you know, sometimes it's maybe hard for people because of their own past. Yes, you know for sure, when did you actually start writing better than okay?

Yeah?

I started writing it last year in twenty twenty two, the beginning of the year, and then wrapped it up in July twenty twenty two, so you know, it went to the publisher then and went through lunch of rounds of edits, as you know, and came out this July.

Okay.

And I know a lot can change to you know, even in a year. So is there something that you wish you would have added or something that like you kind of know now that it's not in the book?

Yeah, I do think there are some places I wish I might have expanded a little bit more. I think I think I would have maybe, And maybe it's the next book, Danna, I don't know, just talk about how to settle in and really get to know yourself again. That is definitely identity as a big part of the book. But I just think so many women struggle with that, even if it's not divorce, it's you know, they're taking care of kids, or you know they have jobs, and their identity is wrapped up in what they do rather than who they are. Maybe digging into that a little bit more. I feel like, you know, I've only had one like serious relationship in the last six and a half years, and I'm single again. So it's just almost like navigating a second breakup post divorce. Navigating a breakup is different than what it was when I know my divorce happened. So I think just like figuring out and being solid in who you are and what you want out of your life and taking steps to move toward that, I would probably expand on a little bit more.

That makes sense.

So, I mean, obviously I knew about your relationship because we we've you know, we we do. We touch base, yes, and my heart, I was so upset when you when you said it, you know, you guys broke up. But I also I'm still so excited for you because I know that you know your your great love is out there and you know you've done all this work, and do you believe that or did you kind of get to the place where you're like you feel defeated again.

I think initially I felt defeated again. I think, you know, it's life is just such a journey of learning, and I had a lot of sadness in regards to that breakup, and it took me a little while to accept that sadness of like, yeah, I'm sad I don't have that partner that I wanted, and to be honest, I'm ready for that relationship. I'm ready, you know, to have someone who I partner with in life and I share life with. So, yeah, that was definitely hard, and there's a lot of sadness to dig through. I think I didn't expect to be. My therapist said to me, when you go through grief, it's like you're swimming in a pool of all of your grief rather than just the grief attached to that situation. So navigating that and finding maybe the parameters of am I grieving this person? Am I grieving the fact that I'm single again? And just being able to identify that was huge. I think one of the approaches I've realized is I've spent the summer kind of just evaluating and journaling and processing, is that, you know, there is a longing in my heart to be connected with someone in a romantic way again, to be in a permanent relationship. And I believe the way I'm wired, God created me to desire connection. He created all of us for connection, and I'm highly relational, and yeah, I think that's a long end he placed in my heart. I think it's something that he wants for me as well. And the timing I get a little impatient on, but yeah, I do believe that that will be part of my story, is having someone that I share life with again. And I think for me, I want that for me. And then you know, a benefit of that would be my kids getting to see a healthy relationship modeled for them. So I would love for my kids to have that reality that they get to experience as well.

Yeah, because I can imagine it's you know, when the other partner moves on and starts a family, you know, it's like it's you got to have almost like whiplash. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what my ex is thinking, but I'm like, again, he didn't want to be in our marriage, so yeah, I don't think they But I think if I wanted to be in the marriage and he was.

I just I think I would my head would just be spinning.

Yeah, and you know, Jana, I will say this, by the time I filed for divorce, I did not want to be in that marriage.

Well, because it's something you said in the book too, and I just want to go back to that because I was like, man, that is you know, that's a big saying. Is you said you've never missed him, but you just felt lonely. And I'm like, is that like, not one moment did you miss like even the idea of it or the like.

Not even having a partner. I think I missed you know, I've missed it probably the most. In parenting I talk in the Loneliness chapter of one of the places I still experienced loneliness is when one of our kids does something major and I just don't have that person to look at and say, like, man, he's a really great kid and I'm so proud of him. I don't have that shared experience with someone. Now. I have friends who show up and family members who show up, and my in laws are still part of my life. I call them my outlaws. There's still but I just don't, you know, have that person to be able to say, like, man, he's a really great kid, and I do still feel loneliness there, but as far by the time I got to filing for divorce, so much had been uncovered over my twenty years of marriage that no, I did not want that relationship anymore. I think at that point I had, you know, he had been out of my bedroom for a year, he'd been out of the house for six months. I realized in a lot of ways it was easier with him gone. I function, he traveled a lot with work anyway, and the kids and I kind of had our own rhythm. And and when I removed the person who caused me to walk on neckshelves and always you know, doubt myself and really, you know, was harmful for my self confidence. When that person was removed from my home, I felt so much relief that I was really as devastated as I was. And I definitely grieved the loss of the dreams I had for my family unit. And then I grieved the loss of the dreams that I have for myself in a marriage with him. But I didn't miss him right, So I felt like God really healed my heart quickly in relationship shift to him. I grieved the loss of being part of the church for a really long time.

Yeah, I was wondering how your relationship with God changed after that. I mean, you know, being married to the you know, main pastor, and and yeah, it's like, were you kind of like God would It's you know, did you not go to church for a while?

Were you angry? Like were you angry at him like.

That? I totally was. I was angry at him. I was frustrated. I had watched him, you know, restore a ton of marriages, just because we were in ministry and we had a front row seat to watching the way God worked in people's lives. I had friends whose marriages have been restored from you know, similar situations. So yeah, I just really believed that God was going to show up and heal our marriage and heal both of us. I think in the process of that, what I realized is that God wanted to heal me so how and God wanted to restore me, and redemption was found. It was found in the way that I chose to live my life as post divorce. But yeah, I showed up to God with all of that frustration and anger and bitterness and like, what are you talking about. I have spent twenty years serving you. My entire adult life has been you know, forwarding the mission of your church, and this is going to be what I get in return, and asking the white questions and fighting about that this isn't fair and all of that kind of stuff. I think, you know, for me, it was really interesting what I realized was in parenting we talk a lot about attachment and how attachment then moves into your relationship, whether you have secure attachment or anxious attachment, avoidant attachment. And I think walking through that divorce, when my life went from being surrounded by thousands of people all the time and it shrunk too. I had three people in my therapist I talked to on a regular basis. I spent a lot of time talking to God and yelling at God and questioning God. And it allowed me to create a secure attachment in my relationship with God in a way that I didn't expect because He stayed through all of the you know, cussing and yelling and crying and screaming and questioning and anger and continue to show up and remind me that he loved me and he was going to take care of me. And that wasn't easy to you know, have to show up that way, but I didn't have anyone else that I could yell and scream at. I felt like I didn't have anyone else I could yell and scream at because I really kind of isolated myself out of shame of the situation that was happening.

Yeah, it's something you said.

Earlier.

He had said, like, you know, I never really loved you anyways, And there was actually a moment in my book I wrote about that where he said, you know, I never really loved you, and I kind of know, I know my take on why I think they say that, But how did you kind of rest with that knowing that's not the truth. It's just I look at it as yeahs like it's he didn't maybe love himself or yep, yeah, because.

For a while I was like, we didn't love me, like that's all a lie.

Well it's hard, but.

It's heart faults here though. I know a lot of women have probably heard that. So that's why I'm like, what is your you know, take on it.

It's so interesting. I was working with a coaching client yesterday and she said, I don't understand he rewrote our entire history, and yeah, that's what ends up happening. And my is they do it to relieve some of the guilt that they're feeling with the decisions and the choices they're making. They're trying to rewrite history. They're trying to take away some of the pain that they're feeling because they realize that they're causing other people pain, so they rewrite that narrative and create their own in order to justify those choices and decisions that are causing pain. What's your take on it, Danet, tell me.

I mean that's yeah, that's one should be your take.

Yeah, everyone's take out.

Yeah, they don't want to carry that shame and the sadness, and you know, so they just want to keep on hurting. And yeah, rewriting. I always looked at it as like a mirror, Well you don't love yourself. Yeah you're going to say probably some truth to that, yeah too, so we can mold But I like.

That, And they might just be trying to hurt you in the moment as well.

But I think at the end of the day, though, like in the you know, the I think this your son was saying, he goes he was sending you text messages and you said the text that sit out the most was one that said, I agree, I wouldn't change our lives for anything, and that made me get teary because I'm like, you've done so much for your kids and this isn't the life that you wanted, but you've created a safe place for them, and I just think that's beautiful.

Thank you. Yeah, that was a super special moment. I was speaking, and in the course of my message, I was talking about how this is not the story I wanted for myself, it's not the story I wanted for my kids, but at this point, I wouldn't change our lives for anything. We have created this really great family unit where nothing is missing, and I was just expounding on that. And when I went to the Green Gream after there was a series of texts and it was really sweet. He was like, oh, I like, you're outfitting. That joke was funny. The audience laughed. But then he got to that point where he said I could agree more. I wouldn't change our lives for anything, and that was the point that I was like, Okay, we have redefined family and redefined our family unit to where yeah, there's nothing missing. The four of us are a complete family, and we show up for one another and we love each other really well.

I love that, Brandy.

I'm just I'm I'm so happy for you, and I'm you know, I want everyone to go get your book better than okay, finding hope and healing after your marriage ends. And then what else are you? So you said you're coaching people. That's what You've been doing for that for a long time.

I've been doing that for a long time. That's my sake.

So where can our listeners find you?

Then?

Love Brandy Wilson dot com Brandy with an I, and then that's my website and then on Instagram. I love Brandy Wilson as well. So well, thank you for coming on, thanks for having me.

I miss you and let's get together soon please once once school starts back up.

Yah. Yeah, Sarah wants to see you too, Sarah Brice says Chris. Everybody loves everybody.

But yeah, let's I'll text you on the side and we'll we'll figure something that.

It's great, Tokay, thank you so much for her too amazing book.

Seriously, it's so good. It's just I feel everything that you write. It's just honest and it feels to me. It's like, I know you wrote this. You know it comes from your voice, which I love.

So I love that.

All right, bye Brandy.

Brandy, She's such a beautiful human.

I'm so happy for her. I was I gotta tell you that. When she sent me the text with her and now boyfriend broke up, I was like no, because I just was like they're dated for us, definitely over a year.

And like how soon ago did they break up?

Like a couple of months ago?

I know, but again it's not like it's all I was also like, but yay, because you're gonna find and you know, and she's happy, Like she's happier.

And she knows what she wants. You know, she knows.

I know it's not all about relationships, but you know when someone's like ready and wants that, like that's where it's right.

Yeah, well that's what she was saying. She is ready, like she is ready for that companion. Maybe she should go on the No, I don't know what you're going to say, but probably not.

I was like thinking like an app or something we can you know.

That could be a fun girls nice Iran.

Let's just like let's get her on hinge or something. Or just start like, oh, you know we should do because you know I'm met my love on Instagram. We should just sliden, do I know. I'm like I'm trying to think. I'm like, what, what person can we hook her up with?

But that'll be our homework. We'll think about that anyways.

See you light up? Are you

Whine Down with Jana Kramer

At the end of a long day, nothing is better than winding down and decompressing with a good friend,  
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