Wind Down with Jenne Trailer and Michael Coughlin and I'm her radio podcast wind Down. What's up, guys? How is everybody? I'm great? Mark Easton, how are you, guys? I'm super good. It's my birthday week. I'm feeling great. It is your birthday, which, by the way, Michael was doing some birthday shopping for you yesterday. But wait, when's Easton's birthday? It's July November six them a scorpio November as my mom. Wait, so Mark, what does that make you then? Because July is that stem or? Now I'm a cancer? Yeah? What are you gonna do for your birthday? We're discussing this yesterday. We're not sure yet, we're thinking of I was trying to like, there's a there's a virtual reality arcade at the mall near us, but I don't know. It's really expensive and the way that is gribe the games doesn't excite me, Like, hey, you're on a roller coaster, Like, well, that's not worth fifty for forty minutes so you can exactly. Yeah, So I don't know. I'm looking at it. Maybe I do love video games. I've been trying to figure that out. But I might just you know, take the kids, go see Toy Story four, maybe get some dinner. I don't know. You know, there's one place in l A that I totally forgot to take Mike at a date night. So this could be maybe a good birthday thing if you like this kind of jam. But you basically go to this warehouse and you just break stuff. I m a rage room sounds and fantastic. It's probably Mike's dream to just like just frush stuff. But I mean I did it at like this um gifting event sweet thing, and I went in there and they gave me a hammer and I just got to destroy wine glasses and play. They're like, do however you want to do it? You want to grab the plates and throw them? Do you want to? I mean it was it felt so good. They have like printers and stuff you can break, like you have a lot of rage towards the have a coffee machine. Like the office, you can like a office space. Yeah, right now would be a roomba because I'm having a hell of a time trying to set up with the room. But I've been on the phone with the roomba company trying to figure it out for the past couple of great experience with customer service. If I may so, were they good to They're great customer service, but it's still not figured out yet. They're like, we think it's your internet. They have a great customer service because there's always issues that message have to have a good support staff to help everyone so they don't lose business. Well, that's fun, Mark, happy birthday. Thank you. I'm excited for you. Yeah, you do. It's my special day. That's right, it's all we got. I'm having a hard time with my birthday. I'm fighting that. I know that I should, by this age behating my birthday, and I don't ever want to. I mean, I think that's a really good outlook to have, but I feel like, guys, it's easier, like you guys look better when you get older. We don't. We look worse in your own it is, and that's not true for you, Yeah, it's not. I see pictures of Jana when she was in her twenties and I'm like, yeah, she's cute, but I know it's true. But you're you're smoking now, but in ten years it's like, you know that's some people. Then why do husbands always go for the younger girls when they get older, Mark, what can you help us with that? I think that, I mean, we can always, But I think they has to do with men's insecurities and having to feel like they're the They're still young and hot and virile, and I think I think it gets into a deeper place there. It's a midlife crisis thing. Yeah, it goes an ego and power to the whole like midlife crisis thing. Though, is something have you gone there it yet? I don't think so. So is there an age range that it usually happens mathematically? I really should have done it by now, I think in terms of the midway point, but I don't. I don't. I think it's got to be forties, fifties, it's got to be writ in that range. I mean, what are you going to do for mid life? Where is Mike? I don't know. I'm over here talking about motorcycles and stuff, so I might already be in it. I'm in it and I'm thirty two and we still don't have a motorcycle. So but if you really want one bed, we can talk about it later. I'm still working on my golf trip. I told you you can go. Yeah, I said, book the tickets, you want to go go green Light. All your listeners heard it. You guys heard it. So if we get an argument about it and I bring it up, if it's something you really want to do, I'm not gonna not. If something you really want to do, what's the objection? There is none, but okay, but there what's the hesitation? There's something? Well, it's just there. There has to be certain boundaries around the trip. So it's not just golf of things, well, no, it is. It is a trip is just golf, but it's you know, because of our history and everything. It's when one of us traveling and we're not together, you know, things come up for Jena, which I totally understand and and I'm usually always willing to do whatever she needs to feel safe. And when I do leave um and she's not with me, which by the way, the listeners are like, you're so hard at Mike, and d D D da da, I'm like, but there's still certain boundaries that need to be in place for someone's safety, no matter where if they you know, because people people think that we're not in a healthy relationship because we have certain boundaries and stuff. And yeah, someone said, like they must their relationship. Really, isn't that healthy because you know she's so insecure about this. People have insecurities no matter what. And it's it's not like you can go anywhere and you can't do this or that, Like that's not it at all. Just you have to have boundaries just in general, whether things happen or they didn't. I just think it's important to have boundaries. But call me crazy, you're crazy. So who are the other guys on this trip? Like? How many other It's it's four of us total. We played can I go? Do you need another time? But they're single guys in this group? No, they're all. They're all. Two of them are married with kids, ones engaged. Um we I did the same trip with these guys last year. It's back in Baltimore. It's at the club that they belonged to. It's just a member guest tournament. Two of the guys belonged to the to the club and they take me my other buddy and yeah, and he went last year and I had Yeah, I went last year. Is so much fun, had such a good time and you know, we had no issues. And I think Mike's just being more hesitant because it's like we're back in Nashville, so there's more things that have come up from me here since we're back in like that space. But I think it's been you know, I have no issues with it, which is nice, right, Yeah, No, I love that, it's awesome. But I don't want people to be like there she goes again, not telling him what he can cannot do, because I'm like, I am not. I feel like I get that acts on me a lot, but that's not the case. You want that. Go go do it? Do we just have certain boundaries, which is all good? Then well I appreciate it. I'll poke my fight today. I think goodness, Um do you do you? Do you think so? Mark? Like, do you think? I think it's great? I haven't heard everything now, I'm ready to rule. I think this is fine. I think he is I think he is allowed to go on this trip and boom, judge jury executioner, judge jury executioner. No, it's good. And my dad's actually coming in that weekend, so you get to miss my dad coming in town. Oh, miss Morton, Well you'll come back on Sunday, right, yeah, I'll be back Sunday morning. Yes, yes, because last time you didn't roll until like six a night. That's because I had to go from Baltimore to Los Angeles. Now I'm going Baltimore to Nashville. I'm back in no time. Well, actually that isn't sense, because you gain time going, right, but you don't lose time. Right. But I didn't want to take the first flight out. You are two kids, guess a lot bobo alright, So no one really has time to go to the post office. All right, you're busy. Who has really the time to fight all the traffic, the parking, the lugging all your mail and packages. It's honestly, really huge hustle. That's why I love stamps dot com. Um. It's the greatest place ever. It's a great tool for time saving and for small businesses to stamps dot com eliminates trips the post office and saves you money with discounts that you can't even get at the post office. They also send you a scale too, so if you're sending packages, no worries because it'll let you know exactly how much how many postages you need. With the scale, you use your computer to print official US postage for any letter, any package, any class of mail anywhere. With stames dot com you get five cents off every first stamp and up to off priority mail. Not to mention, it's a fraction of the cost of those expensive postage meters. So it's honestly a no brainer. And right now our listeners get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and like I said, a digital scale without any long term commitment. Just go to stamps dot com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in Janna that stamps dot com and enter Janna. So we have a really really really really really really really can I say really one more time, really cool guest, she's um, she's transgender, ways that I want to make sure I say that right. Yeah, she's a transgender Her name is Billy Lee. And we talked about this because Mike had am I want to say, any incident those of you that listened to me when I was at the home depot and how kind of unsured how and how to address someone who seemed to be transitioning, um, you know, their sex. I just it just brought up an interesting topic on on what is the respectful way to acknowledge people that are transitioning in public. So she's on vander Pump Rules. She actually made history as a first trans woman to start on a Bravo series. I'm really excited to talk to her. Is she Um? Is she here yet? She's in the elevator right now? Oh my gosh, suspension. She's beautiful too, very pretty, very very very pretty. Which something came up for me, Um, Mike and I started talking about it before the podcast. I'm curious to to get that. I guess we'll talk about it afterwards. I mean, we can. You're a Jenna asked me, is because I was like, Wow, she's so beautiful, Like if I didn't know, I didn't know and I was dating her somebody and then they told me, which you know, Billy Lee has a story on her website that kind of talks about situation she was in like this, And my honest answer is I don't know if I could because why okay, because my my, my head would just be like this was you know if you really loved her, Like what if you like you were in a relationship with Billy, you loved her, you loved everything about her, I mean, and then you know, it would think how you felt with me when you first met me, and then I said, hey, I was actually a boy when I was younger and I've transitioned. It would be hard. It would be something that you I would have to get over or have to deal with on my own time. UM, like it's it's it's a classic scenario of what we talked about all the time with you don't know what you're gonna do until you're in that situation. And all I know is that I can't answer definitively. I can't answer yes, I would still be with you no matter what, or no, I wouldn't be with you period. I can't answer definitively. You seem more definitive off air though that you couldn't do it because we because we started talking. Then you're like seeing it for the podcast. But you sounded pretty like definitive though I don't know what you have to flip it around? How would you feel? Damn it? Mark, don't do that to me. Um. I think it's different. Think do you think the female relationship? Yeah? I think it's different because sometimes I'm like, you know what, if Abby Wombach came to me and was like, hey girl, I'd be like okay, because I think she's like I like that kind of tougher chick like I. I honestly, if we ever got divorced and then she abby like made a move, I'd be like, all right, I would think I wouldn't say no to it. So so if it was flipped, then yes, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's just my two cents. Well, Billy's here and she's listening to this conversation. Hi, Billy, thank you so much for being on our show. We so appreciate it because this has definitely been a topic that we've wanted to discuss and just have you on the show just we're super super grateful, So thank you, thank you. And uh, Mark just tried to I asked Michael because he we were reading your site and UM, well, I'll let you take that when over. Yeah, Billy. I first of all, I loved your website. Um. I think it's very informative, it's very beautiful. Um, but I was kind of reading you know, about you and everything and the example that you gave of someone that you had fallen hard for and then when you finally I felt like it was time to open up to him and tell your kind of whole story how he had a hard time with him. He said he could never look at you the same, and so that that's kind of, you know, empathize that must have been really hard for you to accept at that time. And so I was telling Jama that and we just kind of had that dialogue, and you know, she asked me the same question and I told her just honestly, I don't know that's a hard until someone's in that position, I don't know my first instinct would honestly be the same as him, would be like I don't know if I could look at jam at the same. But but but to me then, like why because you're you know, you're beautiful, You're who who you are meant to be. So it's why can't you love that version? Right, Billy? What are your thoughts on that? Well? I have to say I definitely felt for him in that moment too, and um, you know, it's it's hard because I for myself, I'm like, I'm just telling you something that I haven't told you before. I'm still the same person. Like he was attracted to me for certain reasons, even my voice. Um, like he there was so many things that he really loved about me, and just by me telling him that, and then I think too, it's also perception. It's like, then he tries to find all the masculine things about me because I told him, so he starts looking for it, and then he notices it and then he's like, oh, oh this makes sense. Oh wait, no, this is why, and like it creates a story, and then all the shame starts coming in because especially with him growing up, you know, he is half black, and a lot of cultures and community they don't support that. They don't you know, you're not allowed to be gay, You're not allowed to be attracted to trans people, um or even embrace any of your feminine energy. So a lot of shame just kicked in. And he I was friends with all of his friends, and so he was very embarrassed, and you know, all of his friends stopped talking to me. It was it was like I disdropped a bomb in like my life and his life. But you know, after like six months to a year, he came around and he was saw me dating some other guy who actually kind of looks like him, and I was open and proud at the time, and he came back around and was like, actually, like, you know, I messed up, and I think about you not all the time. And we had a really strong connection. I we literally thought we were from like a different planet. It was like very twin flame kind of connection. And you know, so I we ended up reconnecting it and getting back together. But then I kind of slid into that secret. So the shame kept on popping up in our relationship. People would be like are you with a trans woman? And then he would get like kind of embarrassed or then yeah, a lot of things would come up, and and then I noticed like if his roommates or his friends would walk in, he wouldn't be like touchy feely with me. He would be like not as affectionate. And that was I kind of slowly became his secret. And there was days where he was like so proud about it and open and was like I want to change the world with you, and I want to educate people. And then there was days where he was you know, like crying and being like I'm embarrassed and I'm ashamed to be with you. It was it was definitely a roller coaster. I man, that's yeah. You know nowadays, Billy, where do you stay end with. When you're creating a new connection, a new relationship with somebody, whether romantic or not, at what point do you I don't want to say disclosed, because you're who you are, but what porn does that conversation come up? I guess you know or did or is it even necessary to have that conversation. I know we have this conversation in the community a lot. My sisters, my transistors, and I were just together last night. UM, and the thing is, like, I don't think it's appropriate to talk about it until you are like becoming intimate or decided to be in a romantic relationship. I do. I am open and proud now and you can google me, so it's definitely not like it was before. But I don't know. I I personally for me, I don't want I want to be open and honest from day one. And um, but there are people out there who are sis and they go on dates, and they may go on three or four dates and they don't need to tell anyone. They don't need to tell anyone their personal business until their intimate or until they're ready. Um. And I've had a therapist tell me, like you're a woman, like everything on your idea, your body, everything about you as a female. So why do you have to go around telling people you know, your baggage or your past. And and I really agreed with that at the time, and I was kind of convinced in a way, and that's one reason why I lived stealth and and I didn't tell him, but I don't. I mean, I don't like being dishonest. Um And I felt myself, especially in that past relationship. He would ask about stuff in high school and I'd find myself lying. And I've never been like a liar before, So I just didn't like the fact that, um, I was being dishonest to someone who I loved so um. But I definitely think it's it's important to be open and honest from the get go, and especially like you know, some trans women get murdered because they're not open and honest, and they may like you know, and I have to tell you, it's really hard when a guy you're really attracted to and you have this amazing connection likes you and he looks at you and he's just really really enjoys you, and you feel good. You feel like I'm the woman that I've always wanted to be the woman that I feel on the inside. The last thing I want to do is is tell him something negative about my past or something that I'm not proud of where I'm ashamed of. Um. I mean who airs out all their dirty laundry on the first date or second day? You know? Yeah, that that totally makes sense. And along those lines, Billy would have you always solely been attracted to men since you grew up? You know, a male in society was trying to lean you into being attracted to women. You know, at what age did you realize that you weren't or you know, are you still attracted to women? I'm always I've always been attracted to men. I um uh yeah, I it was hard for me when I was a child. When when I got to be a teen, Um, you know, I wasn't allowed to be attracted to boys because I was identifying as a boy and um, so I couldn't even look boys in the eye because I would get bullied for you know, if I would come onto them or hit on them, which really I was. I kind of was so distant from a lot of um guys, even my close friends, because I didn't want them to think that I was coming onto them. Um, and then that kind of you know, went into further relationships and it was really hard for me to break down that barrier, in that wall and to be vulnerable and open in a relationship. But I'm still attracted, Hi man, I I um do date transman. I am in a current I'm in a relationship right now with a trans man. And he's that was a who was a female? Yes right now? Um, and everything about him, you know, he really embraces his masculine energy. He Um, you wouldn't know. I mean, he looks like a man. But um, I love it because I feel like there's more. Um, you're not. You probably don't feel as much shame too, Yeah, I mean I I definitely you guys can relate a little bit more as opposed to your last relationship where he's you know, yeah, maybe makes you feel bad for being you and that's not that's not fair exactly. Yeah, And I mean I still think's come up. You know, like we went on a little trip recently and and um, he took me to Palm Springs after a work trip and um, I'm like tagging him, you know, like, yeah, this is my boo and he's like not really tagging me and on social media, and I'm like instantly like my Like, I'm like, is he ashamed of me? Like all of these past experiences came up because I did have, like, you know, a man, especially as this man would love me and adore me in the bedroom, but outside he wouldn't hold my hand or be so proud, especially on social media. So and he's like, babe, I'm trance to He's like that happens in all relationships. It's like I had a few people that wouldn't hold my hand either, and I'm like, what's wrong with me? But you know it's not that comes out. I know, I do have a question about that, because Michael and I've had this conversation before, and you know, you've even said, Mike, you know it's a choice or it's, um, it's a fad some of these kids are doing. When we talked about people that watch these shows that are now transitioning into like that like it's a choice to be gay or to transgender, or that you're not like born with it. No, I'm not. I never said that. I was saying that with the whole with what society is doing on you know, almost over diverting their children, whether male or female, to the opposite ways of Oh, your girls don't have to play with barbies, they should, they can play with this too. It's you know, in every show having you know, uh someone of you know, different sex or whatever. It's I just feel like it's kind of how do kids even know what the what's the word I'm looking for to know, like who they are? Like how do you know too? For the people that may think it's a choice, maybe you know, or that it's a fat or they want to be cool, they want to fit in, Like what are your what are your thoughts on that? When it comes to I mean to say, you know, being we're over in growing up and being born as a boy physically, we're we are influenced and almost brainwashed to like the color blue, to like dumb trucks, to like Joe's so as much as like people are influenced to be non binary. Now, the thing is, I think gender is on a spectrum. I don't think that you have to be a girl and you have to like pink and you have to like boys, and I don't think you have to be a boy that likes blue and it's attracted to girls. I think it's a spectrum. And I think the more that we show that, like I have a T shirt and a word on vander Pump, raise boys and girls the same way. Let them decide what they like. Why do we have to like I remember when I was younger, the first time I ever really knew that I was different and that I felt wrong was when I want an Easter egg hunt and I was so excited because I was looking at this pink tint. It was a pink tint full of like Barbie dolls and pink girl stuff and there was this pink bike that I really wanted. And I won the like big prize and my dad passed the pink tint straight to the the boy tent and I had to pick some dumb truck or something, and I was so disappointed and I was crying. But it was in that moment that I realized, I'm being forced to like something I don't like, and I'm ashamed of it, and I'm and I knew in that moment that I was different. So I have to say, like, you know, not everyone should be like I. When I have kids, I don't think that they need to be wearing pink or blue depending on their sex. And I definitely, you know, it's up to them. It's up to them to decide who they are and what they're feeling. A lot of people, you know, it were all energy at the end of the day. And there's days where I feel like embracing my masculine energy and I not. I might not want to wear like makeup or be you know, last night I went out and I was very m I wore like this body suit and I'm very cur be now, and but everyone was very attracted and like very sexual to me, and I'm like, I don't really know if I like this energy. There are times where I want to embrace my mask and energy and even dressed down and not feel so like open to people hitting on me and stuff. So I definitely have to agree and disagree. No, it totally makes sense and to dive into that, like you said, said, you you know you want kids eventually, which is gonna be one of my questions. But when it comes to that, I guess what I struggle with with kids. You know, we have two young kids. Our daughter Jolie's three and a half. I mean, she is on her own, full blown. She loves Unicorn, she loves dresses, she loves everything. She loves playing soccer. Yeah, but she also loves playing soccer and sports and everything like that. So tome but with sports, yes, but she you know, she is everything as society with category categorized as female or a little girl, and that's her choice. But until they get to that age, it's I guess, you know, for people that are maybe sensitive to it, like how do you dress your kids when they're infants, if it's a boy or girl? If you know, like I'm almost with our son because of society being oversensitive in some ways, I'm like, yeah, do I need to feel bad for putting my son in a blue onesie or giving him truck toys? Right? So it's I don't I don't know. I guess that's you know who has the answer to that. You know, is it wrong with me to give my son a barbie instead of a truck when he's one years old? I don't know, you know what I mean? So it's it's tough because we were having that conversation actually this morning Mike. Mike said, hey, we should get Jolie one of those um outdoor hard work and I was like no, and Michael goes, he goes, oh, come on, i'd be cute. And I was like, all right, then we'll get Jason barbies. How about that? And he's like, no, that's the same. You know. I'm like, you don't want him playing with barbies, and I don't want to playing with you know, the truck or toy stuff. Again, it's about the influence. It's like if if he gets older and he's Jolie's age and says he wants that barbie, all right, fine, I'm not gonna say no, you can't have that when I honestly wouldn't. You wouldn't know. I honestly wouldn't if he points to that and says I want that doll. We have this recorded, so yeah. And of course if Jolie wanted to, I mean, she does play more with those kind of things, like she loves cars. I would never take her cars away from her, Like she loves those cars. Right. So, and let me tell you something, if your sons attracted to feminine things, You'll know, like, at the end of the day, I you could put fifty dump trucks in front of me when I was a kid, but I would go and find that one Barbie doll and I would be like so excited about that one Barbie doll. So you'll know, I'm gonna send you videos and be like, Billy, what is this like? Sew me and when it happens, like you know, just have that moment of like, you know, embracing that moment and doesn't mean like just because your child is you know, having fun with barbies, that they're going to grow up to be gay or trans like you know, and is there too much? Is there so much? I know, because there is so much influence. There are so many which I think are great. I know, Michael's like, oh God, here's another lesbian couple kissing or another you know, like think when the gay people of the gay people, Jesus the gay storylines on all the TV shows now, Yeah, but I don't think there's every show had six heterosexual couples all the time. I mean, you know that that was here's the thing. The norm is changing. And I said this with Victoria's Secrets. If you're not gonna get on the board, if you're not getting on the bandwagon that the norm is changing, then you're going to go under. And what happened we see Victoria's Secrets losing sales left and right, and that's just how it is. Every brand it needs to wake up and you know, and this goes with you. You have to understand that the norm is changing. We it's not. But here's the question, though, is there is that too much influence to confuse the kids to be like what am I? Who am I? Who am I supposed to be? Is that? Is there too much stuff like into that question? At some point in our life? You know, life is confusing period. I mean, look who our president is no offense to anyone who that, but I mean, like, what are kids thinking now? Like, wow, this is a running our country. So um, at the end of the day, we're all going to question things. But I think it's holding space and allowing them to be open and open minded and not having to like fit in a box. It's like, the last thing you want is your kid to be like I'm questioning this and question that. Oh but we only have one box for you, sweetie, So here you go, Like, that's not how you want to do it, you know, give them multiple box, chuck. If they are questioning things, they say that transgender identity is on the rise, among teenagers. And then some people say, oh, because it's trendy or they just want to be popular or whatever. But I think it's really it's just they see now they're seeing role models that they never saw before, and now I'm that that's that's the real me, and I can express myself that way where they never could have done that before. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Even my my boyfriend, he he calls himself a baby trans because he's thirty four, but he only transitioned two years ago. I transition, but he didn't have Yeah, he didn't have as many people to you like, wow, I can relate to that. You know. Even even in my small town in Indiana, I had no person of color around me, and I only had Oprah Winfrey to look at on the TV and be like, wow, I'm so attracted to this person of color because there was all white people around me. And now like most of my boyfriends are of color, like I love the brown boys. I have a question, Billy, when transitioning. Um, you know, there's a scenario I brought up on our podcast an episode or two ago about someone that was helping me at I was at home depot getting something at home depot, and uh, the person's name was Sarah, and it was very apparent that they were transitioning or you know, wasn't was a male or is a male and transitioning into a female. You know, I just caught myself because I wanted to be respectful of that person. And so I've just been wrapping my brain and I would love to hear your input on this on what as a trans gender yourself and who's someone who transitioned? What is respectful for you? For you or someone like you? And you know when so, yeah, I don't know just what is respectfully? Do you say? Because Michael is a very yes man, Yes, sir, so that's kind of his his Um what are those called? I think here? Well, yeah, I mean even whenever, to be honest, whenever I'm on the phone with like um, you know, Time Warner, Cable or Team OB or whatever, and they're like, sir, I'm like, excuse me, it's twenty nineteen. Do we have to use a pronoun right now? Like so you're saying take the pronouns out? Yeah, I honestly sometimes that does annoy me. But here's the thing, Like, if you notice me, let's see that they're identifying as a female, then you are more than welcome to just say that, like man, But what if it's just a gay man who's more flamboyant. Well if he's and it's not transation a man and he's identifying as a man, but he's game, but he has like lipstick on, and yeah, I mean you could be open. You can. Honestly, your safest bet is saying they are them, Like you can consider them non binary and um, let's say, okay, wait, wait they're not male, orf they're not female, then they might be in the middle, there might be non binary. So I'm going to just consider them they are them. And that's a hard one for me too. I mean I have friends in the community who are non binary, and you know, saying they in them versus she or her or him like it's it is a little bit more challenging. But at the end of the day, like, um, if you really want to be respectful and you want to make people feel safe and feel good, then you want to try to go the extra mile and just I always my safe bet. If I don't know what I'm questioning, it is they in them? Right, and then just drop the mammer, sir, it would it be rude of me? Like, say, I go to that situation and I asked the person you know, her name was Sarah or his name was Sarah whatever that wherever they were in their transition, I said, hey, Sarah, you know what would you like me to call you? Is that crossing the line, like in a public scenario, should I just say thank you Sarah? Like just used their name instead of because the name tag on it said Sarah. So, I don't want to make it more complicated than I have to. YEA said like I'm from the South. I say, yes, yes, sir, it's just a term of respect, whether you're five or fifty, Like I just I used that. Um So, I guess I just gotta change my way. Yeah, I mean you just say you're from the South. You're from Virginia. That's actually really categories Virginia self of Mason Dixon line is the South, sir? Okay, Well, first of all, Sarah, I would immediately just think female. Um So, I have a very good guy friend that's name is Say. If you ever questioned and say what is say? I would love to know your preferred pronoun. And here's the thing. Here's the thing. If anyone trans ever, if you're really coming from a place of love and you just of understanding, you really want to respect the person, and the person is rude to you, it's because they're coming from an insecure place. Like you have to understand what it's like to be trans in America, Like our community is suffering in so many ways. We're told no, in so many ways, we can't get jobs, and so when we do get a job, we deal with a lot of discrimination. So you could be walking up and just trying to be respectful and nice, but immediately I've had people, you know, especially early on with my first when I first transitioned, I would immediately be annoyed and like upset or ashamed and embarrassed in some type of way, and I would project that onto you. And here you are just trying to be nice and respectful. So when I say holding space, I mean like just knowing this person. You know, they're part of a community that is really suffering right now, and um, don't take a personal one. Someone's upset with you. And I always try to tell my trans people, especially when I'm doing speaking engagements and stuff, allow ignorance, especially if it's not coming in in a hateful way, and it's not coming in a transphobic way, allow ignorance. Hold space for that ignorance, so we can educate this people, so then you can feel good about communicating with them. And you know, even when I say higher, our unemployment rates three times higher than the general population, trans people need jobs. I tell people who can hire out there, like, please hire a transperson. And if you're feeling a little uncomfortable and you don't know the pronouns, ask you have that period in life even dating right now. Me, there's times where I feel uncomfortable with my boyfriend. Things are new, but you have to like navigate that and then things become smoother and you're changing people's lives and you're helping an entire community just by employing them and also you know, trying to have their pronouns correct. I love that. That's all. Yes, I'm like, amen, Can you talk about your anti bullying campaign too? Yeah? I mean, well, you know, uh, coming from a really small town in Indiana, I was bullied a lot. I was bullied so bad that I missed missed two or three years of grade school. So I'm a really bad speller Um. But I when I decided to team up with Regenics, like, first of all, was researching and found I was looking for some kind of hair product that would like help my damaged hair. And my mom has thinning hair, and I was starting to have thinning hair because I was bleaching and all the time. And I came across the regen X and I just fell in love with the company, and then we just decided to team up. And I said, look, if I'm gonna do this beauty campaign, I really want to tie in something that's going to be good for my community. And they're like, we're down, and I talked about my being being bullied and they said, let's do an anti bullying campaign. It just like, was this beautiful moment that we had, and now we have this amazing campaign and a percentage goes to Equality California. I'm on the board of Equality California, so and Equality California works actually for the entire United States. They're constantly trying to help protect our rights. They're also in the school systems and making sure that teachers and principles are using the correct pronouns and the kids have a safe place to go to the restroom because when I was little, I would I was terrified at the restroom. Um. And then I was also forced to go with you know, be in the wayte soccer team. I was forced to go to the boys locker room and those boys were the ones that were bullying me so bad. And I couldn't go to the girls pizza night or do the girls soccer team. It was really you know, challenging for me. So I just love that Regenic says, like, you know what, we are willing to have a trans person be the face of our beauty campaign and also we will give a percentage back to your community. How big is the community? Well, I mean, let me pull out my number is really fast. We didn't they say it's like, uh, is it ten percent of the population? Am I wrong on that? No, it's growing fast. I mean, you know. The thing is like like he was just saying, people are seeing that it's okay to come out, it's okay to be open. And I think at the same time as like the government's trying to take our rights away, we have Hollywood stepping up and like you say, you see it on TV all the time. Now, Hollywood is playing a huge role they're like showing what's really happening. I mean Pose last night. I don't know if you guys watch Pose, but the show is epic and last night, UM, one of my good friends character. I don't want to be to a spoiler alert, but yeah, you have to watch it. It It was really intense, but it's the truth. What's going on with trans people, I mean especially black trans women. They're being murdered left and right. What is your biggest fear for your community? UM, to be honest, my my UM, my best friends, like my closest friends are trans woman of color UM and black trans women, and I'm so fearful that something could happen to them because we lose UM black trans women almost every day, Like there's constantly something happening that either they're being beaten up or they're being murdered. And that's probably my biggest fear because the love of my lives are trans people of color, so I'm always speaking up for them. UM. You know, I see the white privilege. I see it because I grew up in an all white town and I've seen what my privilege just transitioning. When I before I transitioned, I couldn't get a job, I had to do sex work, and then I had all these surgeries. And because I'm white, red carpet rolled out for me and I had all these opportunities. And I witnessed that, and I think, wow, if if I have all these opportunities, I need to make sure that every person in my community has the same, no matter what color they are. So I definitely, yeah, do you live Do you live with any fears nowadays? I mean, you're out, you're open, you're you're proud of who you are and what you're doing. But do you still have any fears personally? Um? You know, I I my biggest fears is disappointing my community because I do come with privilege, because I do blend in with society, and I don't like to use the word passing, but um, you know what you're using your voice though, you know? Yeah, no, I really do. I try, and you know, every everything that I attached myself to, even with regenics, like I want to use the power of even if it's a beauty campaign, to make sure that we're speaking for my community and that we're raising money for my community. Um, but yeah, I mean I think you know, as an activist. I'm I'm always like afraid that I'm disappointing in some way and I'm not doing enough because there are so much suffering. And that's the thing is, like I'm working on a new TV show right now. What can you can you say or I can't say, but um, it's really exciting. Um, but can we have you back on when it launches? Yes, but my new but my research for this new show is hate crimes and the things that we deal with with in the trans community. So my producing partners are always emailing me like, oh, this is happening, this is happening. So it's almost like my job is to see all the negative and that sometimes it can be really really daunting, and I can find myself like in a black hole of like oh my god, there's no end of this, like just forget it, you know. But um, it's things like Regenics and like these campaigns that I'm tied to that really give me hope and that are like, oh, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, Like I'm the face of this beauty campaign and they want to give back and not to mention like their product is actually really really good and it's like saved my hair. So it's just like those kind of things like give me hope and and UM and I would Victoria's Secret calls you up and says, hey, UM, would you do it? I would say, how many um, black trans women did you call? To be honest, like even you know any I had a meeting with WE Entertainment UM recently and just a general meeting, but my first question was, what if your majority of your audiences is the black woman, do you have a black trans woman representing your network? And they said, we're working on it. And I said, okay, all right, great and you're like, and then I won't do anything until it's yeah. I mean at the end of the day, look if they're if that's their audience, I know some black trans women that would be amazing on WE network and that would represent and you would you know my girlfriend Amazon Ashley, she's amazing, Like I can't stop watching her. And I was like, you need to have her on your network. But I'm always I'm always speaking up for the people that don't have a voice. Well, Billy, we cannot thank you enough for coming on UM and shedding light on this and UM talking about your journey and being open. So thank you so much for coming on to do that. We greatly appreciate it. Yeah, thank you Billy so much. Everything you're doing is amazing. You're beautiful, Your work is beautiful and we really appreciate your time. Yeah. Hey, thank you for allowing the transperson to come on and share their voice. And I love and appreciate you both for that. Of course you're welcome. Where can our listeners find you? Um, yeah, you can go. Well. My hair campaign is with Jenny's um hair dot com and you can find me. It's me Billy Lee for all social media, and it's me Billy Leads dot com for my website. Awesome. Thank you so much, Billy. Yeah, bye and bye. We all love a good subscription box right well, from food boxes to wellness boxes, they're all the rage. Well, our kids are the future, and it's our job to prepare them for that, empower them to be creative, confident, and fearless in all their endeavors. 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Everyday counts when it comes to making a difference, so don't miss out on this amazing opportunity again. Go to kiwikode dot com slash Janna and get your first month free. That's kwik dot com slash Janna. I Heart Radio celebrates the biggest weekend in music at our I Heart Radio Music Festival. Two nights. One stage of performances You've never seen before and won't ever see you again. Lesha Keys, Cages, Elephant, Camilla, Cabo, Change the Wrapper, deafth Lapper, Fresh Manta Hoodie, Oh what Up? Pusy my favorite heart her Marshamallow Still don't understand the marshmallow in the head, but it's fine. Night List, Cyrus, Mumford and sons Um, Tim McGraw's Zach Brawnbans, so many more. September one at T Mobile Arena in Las Vegas, two nights, one stage. Ticket start at just seventy five dollars and there's telling fast. Will get yours now at a x S dot com and get all the info at I Heart radio dot com. Billy Thoughts comments, I thought she was great. Billy was fantastic. I think everything she's doing is phenomenal in you know, more of these conversations need to be have, and you know, I appreciate what she said about just the norm needs to change. And is that even for your TV shows? Because the amount of times watch a Shawonda Rhimes show and you're like, of course they're making out it. Just from my experience, it just seems like they're overdoing I don't care if every show has that, but it just seems to me from my observation that when it comes to the homosexual scenes, it's more intense and uh sexual and everything, and then the heterosexual I don't think there are as many. Maybe this is my perspective and maybe the others stand out to me, but it um I don't have an issue with it. Again, I just think it's it just goes hand in hand with the whole educating young children and what's the norm. And I just don't want to oversteer things where then it confuses them. That's the only thing that gets that I'm not worried about. But I just I want I don't want to steer one way or the other. But I also don't want them to be like, I don't know what I'm like, right. I don't want them to have an identity crisis if they don't have to at six, right, at a young age. M Mark, do you have any thoughts around that since you've got kids too, Yeah, I have tried to be sensitive to that, and I have a sister who is married to a woman, and so they're very sensitive to that with with their kids. But it's it's been funny how Um, they kept everything neutral from the beginning. But now my niece Audrey is way into Princess's way into barbies, and that was her choice, you know. They kept it neutral until she could make her own decisions, and now she has and that's the direction she's gone in. So yeah, I've tried to keep it really open, and I really I'd like to think I'd be okay with whatever they chose. Um, but they're both they're both just the girliest girls you can imagine. Right, It's just it's just hard. It's just another thing that I think. It's just it's so hard. I don't want to make parenting more complicated than it already is. Yeah, you know it's our choice that and everyone is different and entitled to how they want to raise their kids, are entitled to their opinions. It's our choice that we're we are raising Jolie as a girl by society's girls girls standards, I guess, and Jay says a boy. Now again, if Jolie was at a Target or a toy store and picked out something from a non girl asle, we wouldn't really have we wouldn't have a problem buying it. For if you wanted it. Yeah, And I mean and she is more like I said earlier time, but like she'd rather when when there's boys and girls over, she plays more with the boys and like the swords and oh yeah, that's her thing. And I'm like, all right, she's just more of a like tok boy and the boys to do whatever they want. It doesn't mean anything. We try to put all these meanings into everything, and oh my gosh, what if she's gay? What is she? Trensi? And she just likes plaining with these guys like it's right. She explain words whatever they are right exactly. I remember when my sister was pregnant, I said to her, do you know this the gender yet? And she said, um, sex is the physical characteristics. Gender is what they identify as. So nobody do not know the sex yet. And I'm like, look, I was just trying to avoid the words my young daughters, just trying to take the word sex out of it. But see that's where I feel like it goes a little right now there, Like the baby technically as a male, the baby technically as a female, like I talked about and got ripped on a little bit, you got slaughter eyes for that one. I don't care. We're all learning though, it's all it's all the process. Well that's what kind of like Billy said to like, you know, for the community. It's like, hey, we are ignorant, we don't know. We're trying to learn. We're all just trying to catch up and try to understand something that we don't understand. It's like you're talking to me about the home depot stuff. I'm like that is like have some like patients with my ignorance that I have no idea what that freaking tool is. You know, I don't know about it. It just it just comes back to the whole thing of a biological male or female. When they're born, they are one or the other. We don't know. They don't know, so it's unfair for us to say, hey, we don't know what you are even though you're born this you gotta figure it out. You're on your own. As soon as they come out of the bomb. You're on your own, kid, figure out what you are. I don't know. So anyways, you'll get some more for that. Do you have any emails? We have some really good ones. Actually, Yeah. My husband and I've been together for nine years. We have two kids. I've been feeling weird about our relationship, but my husband continues to tell me we're good. The other night, I had another episode of is my husband cheating? Because I swear I saw a picture on his phone of a grueling lingerie in a text. I didn't ask him about it, just about who he was texting. He said it was a group show with my baseball buddies. Do I go through his phone when I get the opportunity? Have you all ever? Snooped? Absolutely absolutely. If you have any concerns, well, here's the thing I wouldn't say. I would say, hey, can I please look at your phone? I'm right now? That was that was what I would do. I would say, may I look at your phone right now? I'm having some insecurities and I just want to feel safe and that husband. If the husband says, absolutely, babe, here's my phone, then he's not doing anything wrong. But if the husband's like, no, why why let me see your phone, he's not cheating on you because that's nothing like I've never said that to you, Well, let me I was the worst. So but I don't think you should snoop. I think you should just say let me see your phone right now? Or may I please see your phone because I'm having anxiety and I need to feel safe about something that I saw, or or here's an iPhone. Can you show me this text thread to ask for permission to show like he can hold the phone, but let me see it. Let's sit through it together. Ye, don't snoop because then that just creates voxiety for you, And I said, which just gives you so much more. In the worst case scenario, there is if you snoop Robin and then your fears aren't validated, so there isn't anything wrong or inappropriate, or he's not cheating or anything, and then he finds out you snoop or you tell me snoop, then it's he's losing trust in you. Then it's like any kind of lack of trust you had in him, he now loses in you because like what like why didn't you just come to me? What the hell? Yeah, it's good Mark, Yeah, I think that when you start snooping in their stuff, I think that there's major problems in the relationship. And I think really at this point, she would have been justified to say I feel like I saw a grilling laundry on there? Can I see that please? Like that makes sense because because my first thought was it's his phone, it's your phone. You should keep your phone and that should just be your thing. But really, if I'm innocent, if my wife were to say to me, I need to see that, I feel like I just saw something weird on you. I'm like, oh my gosh, here take it please. You know I would never want her to feel that way. Yeah. If that's not his reaction, then I think that's a red flag for sure. For sure. I mean, I want to know your reaction or I want to know how he reacted to Please let us know, please email. I mean, jan, I can even attest to that now. Or she's like, hey, I needed your phone, like you just asked the other day. I didn't even ask why you need it for. I don't even know what. Oh I needed to set them right, and I was just like, yeah, so it's in the kitchen or something. And I will say, what a relieving feeling that is not only for jam but for me, like living, like not having that fear anymore. Yeah yeah, yeah. And the thing in my relationship, my marriage is that my wife doesn't know any passwords for anything, including her own. What's my Amazon Passworday? We come on. Michael gets so mad at me about that. He's like, would you just write it down? I was like, no, because it's either like puggles will something or this or the other. Yeah. Uh. Some personal questions for Mike, Kylie wants to know why you don't have social media. Is it because of all the temptation and easy access? Is it because it's a trigger for Janna or do you just not care for it? Good questions, Kylie, Great questions. Um, it's a little of all the but but mostly for me, like I don't necessarily like it. Even when I had it, I wasn't I only have to. I've never had Instagram. I've never activated an Instagram account or anything. Never. I told you that recently. You never even because it's still just like mind blank because everybody has it, it's the thing to do. No, it's because when like you know, even when we started dating, I only had Twitter, and Twitter was a thing, and so when I was my football I was just Twitter. So I don't know, and then Facebook is just you know, over and done with with our generation pretty much. But no, it started off as a boundary for Janna um and myself just too. Yeah, because I would, you know, even before Janna interact with people via social media connect with people via social media. So it's just a boundary that we took out. But I've never I haven't had one bit of interest in having it again. I don't need to. I mean, Janna isn't Janna's social media is our it's our life, it's everything. I'm not the kind of guy that's going to be taking a selfie video. Hey, what's up with your boy, Mike? This is what I'm doing today. Like everyone that knows me noticed that wouldn't would understand that that is not offening. What's your boy Mike? So, um, you wouldn't know. You wouldn't post anything. I wouldn't put I wouldn't post anything and be oversaturation because Janna. Nobody's safe around Janna because everything is posted. So yeah, it's it's a little bit of everything that started out as a boundary, but really now it's just I don't care. I don't need it. I agree. I mean, I have all that stuff, and I feel so stupid every time I post anything, right, Like what people don't care? What do they care? So I just retweet um Jace j C. He says, I noticed Mike has an increasing amount of tattoos on his arm, and I assume he might be working on a full sleeve. My husband came home a month ago and told me he's getting a sleeve. I don't mind a couple of tattoos, but I'm not attracted to full body tattoos. I'm trying to be a supportive wife, but I'm having a hard time accepting this decision about tattooing his whole arm. How should I handle this? You know, we had a tough time with that because I loved I love Mike's arms. I love the clean I just says, he has very sexy arms, in my opinion, and I sometimes, you know, we we went back and forth on that. I was like, I don't I kind of want to I'll miss that m but but it was his decision at the end of the day, and I said, whatever makes you happy, whatever you want to do. And you know, he is transitioning his sleep, he's making he's he's doing a full sleep. Yeah, it's a work in progress that's taking some time. But no, Janna was was supportive. She expressed, you know, some some sense of loss, a little bit your arm, my arms. I'm not cutting it off to be there, but what the meanings why he was doing it. I loved it because it's all about his growth and his journey and his sobriety. And I was so on board for that because if that's just a constant daily reminder. But what I did say to him though, as I said, you know, if stuff happens, I'm gonna want to cut that arm off because I'd be like, that's a lie too. Yeah, that would suck. Yeah. So Jane has been really supportive. But we we can understand and empathize j C with how you might be feeling about it because it is a permanent thing. Um. But yeah, I mean, and if you don't have any tattoos yourself, I can see how it would be even more difficult to understand. Jana has a bunch of tattoos as well, more strategically placed. Um. I mean, I wouldn't say like super strategic, because I had one above my hoochie hooch. It got I got removed them Mark, thanks Susan. Um it got removed. So sometimes you just make real bad choices doing tattoos. But Mike's tattoos are lovely and great meetings. So on that note, now that y'all know that I have a tattoo removed from my hoochooch, we're going to call it a day. One more thing about the transgender thing that I've been thinking about, just it's been bothered. It's just something that bothered me a little bit over the uh. People say that, um, you know, you shouldn't expose your children two things like transgender to things like homosexuality because it'll just confuse them and it's just not a good idea. And my kids have grown up with an aunt who's gay, and so I just want to say, it's really easy for them to understand that love is love and people are going to love whoever they happen to fall in love with, and it's really easier for them to understand that no, that person identifies as a male. It actually is really easy. What's really difficult for them to understand is why anyone would hate someone for being that way, and why we make it so difficult, really hard for them to grasp. So just keep that in mind when you're you just expose your kids to that. Well said Mark, and I think too. We make it more complicated than it needs to be. We don't give kids enough enough benefit of the doubt. Kids are freaking smart. Yeah, they're so much smarter than we give them credit for. Alright, guys, Well on that note, um, parent confession of the day. I have to say this because I was Jason. I didn't even tell you this, Michael so bad. I didn't mean to. He was crying and so I was rushing to put him in his seat feeding and I was just like, well, buddy, buddy, like I'm coming and you know, like got your food or whatever. So I go grab the food and he's in my arm and I put him down in his his high chair this morning, and I go to put the high chair top on. I whacked him right in the face so hard, and I was like, oh my god, he just he just these cool crocodile tears start coming out, and I just I'm like, oh, I felt awful. I mean, I felt so bad. This poor little face was like, Mom, how dare you anything? You got anything for me? We'll talk off air. Oh that's really funny. I felt awful, though Daddy would never I felt terrible. I I grabbed him and I squeezed him so tight. It's just one of those moments where I was just like, oh my god, Janna did not mean to do that. Just wink right in the face. You got any from me? You're just perfect, honey. On that note. On that note, mind done next week later. Great job, guys,