Mike is celebrating one year of sobriety from sex addiction and as part of his continued work on the condition, Mike and Jana talk to Brianne Davis, an actress and recovering sex addict.
Hear a woman’s perspective on what its like to live as a sex and love addict and how Brianne’s life has changed since she opened up about her struggles.
And Jana reveals what will happen if Mike relapses again.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Wind down and radio podcast. You know, I'm never the culprit of misplacing things, really not as often as you. But I was just trying to find my car keys that you misplaced about in the start of quarantine. Still can't find those bad suckers. I think that was actually like a year ago. No, it was when we got the chickens. It was the day of the chickens when my keys went missing. And thank you, but you have it's like you you say to me all the time, that's been my what's that thing called? Like? We're my kicker? Was that know? What's it called? Like? Where I'm like my trump card? Because he's always like you don't ever, which is funny because I always put things back in its place. But I have a tendency to be like, oh, where's my phone or where is like this when it comes to like my personal things. But every time you say that, and I'm like, I don't want to hear. I was like, you lost my keys. No matter what it is, you always bring that up. There's nothing I can do about it. But why were you saying that? Oh? Because I was frantically looking for my phone just now and I thought I lost my mind. I didn't even remember the last place I had it. And the best part about that, though, is he was looking at for his phone getting so minutes flustered. It was like thirty and and he's like getting all like worked up, and I'm like, okay, well, let's just retrace your steps, like let's figure this out. And he's just getting more flustered and flustered. And I was like, I am to go to the bathroom and then I'll come look for it the first place I look. Of course it was there. I was like, I always got to check the couch. That's like, I checked all the couches and chairs except for that one. Well, I hope all of you all had a great Christmas, however it was spent. I'm so excited for the new year. I can't wait. I have a fear though, around the New Year that everyone like people already put a lot of weight in like new Year, knew me, it's new year, like whatever. This year especially, I feel like people are gonna put so many eggs in that basket, which is great, they should. I'm going to do that. I'm like, what can I do to you know, feel my best, look the best, be healthiest, like, yeah, but you'll fall through and do it. But I'm saying people might have such high expectations because they're like, well, it's just naturally going to be better because it can't get worse than this year, and who knows it might. I mean, I think, you know, I think the expectation, like you said, is really high. But I think it's really bad to set expectations just in general, because you're gonna get let down. And there's a difference between setting expectations and setting goals because there's people there's people that are like, I don't set goals because then that way I won't be let down. Don't really work like that, but okay, teach their own. But I mean I do think, I mean, hopefully it's a better year. But the same time, I still kind of where as you think that I'm not half full in this area of my life, is where I'm like, no, it was a yeah, I was troubling and there was hard times, but I also I'm like, okay, what's what was the what was the positives? All the time we spent with our kids all the so it's like I try to think about those things to be like Okay, you know, how can I bring some of those things that I learned to do better in a better person, as a happier person, as a more patient person. Look at that Mama Jane dropping knowledge on inspiration on everybody. I'm not I'm just saying like, but like, I'm just excited for those opportunities. And you know, it's not Christmas anymore because we're on the brink of another celebration. You know, I have a hard time calling it a celebration. And my therapist even got on me, got on me for this last week because it'll be a year of sobriety for me on New Year's Eve and so just my my shame and stuff wants to just not should let light on it at all, um and just treat it like another day because it is. And I don't know, man, it's just hard because I think I have a lot of shame around it with you know, I wish this was the four year you know what I mean. And it's like thinking back on the you know, bumps and major obstacles that we faced the last four years. It's just you know, four or five years is it's just hard to to not look back. And I'm sure you're the same way. Yeah, I know. I talked about with my therapist last week in it was one of those things where it's like, you know, I was like, how do I balance because I'm like, I'm angry, but I'm also wanted to be supportive. I was like, how can I balance being supportive and being really triggered and really hurt and let down without you know? So it's like I'm like, how do I how do you balance that? Because I'm like, this is his third or second, third or second birthday I've thrown you where it's like I'm like, I don't want to bake a cake anymore and now I'm angry, like how many more one year cakes am I going to make? You know? And I don't want anything, like I don't So I think that's like, you know, but I'm like, but I want to be supportive, So I'm like, how do you balance that? That walk with like wanting to be a supportive spouse but also being like, well how many more times are we going to throw this party? You know? We're going to have a good friend of yours, um Brian Davis, who is openly a sex addict as well love addict, sex and love addict slaw. Um, and we'll have her on and we'll kind of talk about some of this, you know, because she's been sober with eleven years. Yeah, she just celebrated her um eleven year sobriety on December six and Brandon I did a movie together. Um we met on prom night and sorry the movie prom night and um, yeah, we we just we've stayed in touch. Um. But it's it's funny just to like tea up Brian a little bit. Um when I was doing Dancing with the Stars. And by the way, she's gone on to you know, be on TV shows like six and Tree Blood, Um, jar Head opposite Jack Jill and Halli. She's you know, she's an amazing actress and you know she's you know, she's she's really really good. She's gonna be on Lucifer this next season too, yep. Um. And then so we kind of lost touch a little bit when I was doing the country stuff, but we always you know, said hello, and you know Facebook or whatever it was then my Space, I don't know. And when I was doing Dancing with the Stars and all of the stuff came about about your sex addiction, she reached out to me and was like, hey, you know, I would love to meet. So we met at Katsuia in Um, California, in the in the valley and um, you know, and I just kind of thought we were gonna have like a bashing session about you because you were in rehab and um, and she was like, I'm actually a sex and love addict and I was like what. So, you know, I I learned a lot from Brian and she's kind of been my sponsor. Like she was the one I called when I found out about you hiding like the fake accounts last year and the deleting of the you know, your messages with the woman so or the lady or whatever, and so you know, I called her. So she's kind of always the person that I've called in those moments and when I'm like, you know about ry to jump from a bridge to me to be like what what do I do? And how do I handle this? And you know, I think she you guys even spoke at a time or two during last year and stuff. Um, because she's very much in her program and you know, she's a sponsor to a lot of people. And I mean eleven years is incredible. So and just you know, her stories, and but I'm really excited to have her on. But first let's, um let me check in with you, Mike. How are you feeling, just like diving into this again? I think it's it's uncomfortable for me as well, um, because I don't want to really shut a light on it. I just want it. It's just another day. It's just it is, and it isn't, you know. Um. And for me with my my personality of nothing ever being good enough, like things that I do not being good enough, I'm just like, all right, what's like I might feel the same way in ten years. Alright, Okay, it's ten years whatever, keep going right, but you still should celebrate, like one year is great, Like you've stayed to our knowledge, You've stayed straight, you know, for one year, and that's a big accomplishment. Now if you get two years, you will never like you can be like, hey, I've never hit two years before, Like that's great, you know, yeah, I mean it should be encouragement. You should celebrate it. It is. I'm encouraged that this is a legitimate year. That's nice, you know what I mean. Like, so it does feel different, but it's you know, again, it's it's just still uncomfortable. You're lost, you know, for both of us. So all right, well let's take a quick break and then we'll get Brianna. All right, so super excited because we have Brian Um with us on Wine down yours. Are you still in l A right now? Yes? I am, I'm an And are you going to stay in l A? Are you thinking about going back to I don't know, a girl, I don't know what we're doing at this point. I don't think anybody does. You know, we're just literally hunkered in our house and not going anywhere. We're getting everything delivered. It's crazy how scary it is right now in l A. Well, I can't even imagine. But on the flip side, congratulations, you just celebrated eleven years of sobriety in December. So yes, I haven't brought my chip. Look I got I was like, oh I should probably. Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Good for you, Brian, Thank you very much. You know, we're just talking about you know, sobriety and stuff because I know Jane shared with you to be a year from me um this week, and I guess my question to you to start off as I'm still not comfortable with it, but you know what I mean, it's you know, I think even more so because it's a year and this is the second or third time that we've quote unquote celebrated a year. And I was telling you, I was like, this is my first legitimate year, which is nice. Um, yeah, but still it's there's so many feelings around it because of setbacks in the past where I have a hard time acknowledging it. Yeah, I get it. I mean, nobody walks into those rooms thinking, yeah, I guess to be a part of this group of like sex addicts or sex and love addicts. And the problem is it's such a great area and it's so hard to get sobriety in the program that there's people slip all the time and they don't talk about it. But I think that's the beautiful thing that you're doing, is talking about it. But we shouldn't have shame because this is one of the hardest diseases ever to get through. And I've said it before, like they say, a is the last, you know, house on the block you want to go to. But then like sex and love addiction and stuff is like the shack and the back you like don't want to go to like it's the worst place in the world. So I get it. I mean I can even hear that like shamefulness that you feel. I'm wearing it thick, especially as as we're getting closer. Yeah, it really is. And yeah, it's just hard and uncomfortable and you know, it's just one of those things. But I think we're just taking it in stride. Yeah, I mean, like we were kind of saying earlier to brand I was saying, you know, I was talking to my therapist and I'm like, it's hard for the partner. I feel like to because we have celebrated it two or three times, like because I still want to celebrate him because I think it's amazing, especially you know, Okay, it's going to be on New Year's Eve, Like what a celebration what I like, you know, this is amazing, you know, of one year. But then I'm like, it's like the other part of me that's like I don't want to. I don't want to because I'm like, how many more are we going to throw? And that's where like my the negative and the fear, the fear part comes in with with my side of it going, well, you know, are we gonna have to celebrate another one? Is this going to be? You know now is New Year is going to be a trigger holiday because he might relapse again and be like, oh, we could have been celebrating here, you know. So it's like it just sets more in more like trigger trigger places and trigger holidays and trigger because it's like there aready, there's enough triggers in the world as it is. With this, it's like, I'm like, how how am I supposed to like And I mean we talked about live with my with my therapist, but like, like to walk that line is so hard because like, of course I want to celebrate him. I don't want him to feel shame, but I'm also terrified out of my mind. Well I can understand. I mean, when any I and I speak to a lot of partners, it's so interesting that we're talking about this. I had someone reach out yesterday. He's the partner of someone that you know, she keeps cheating on him and he keeps going back to her and she's holding onto him. And I was just telling him, you have to understand that when a slip happens, it has nothing to do with you as a partner. It has to do with the addict feeling out of control, feeling, you know, like they're not good enough to be truly loved and they don't know feel like they can love and be loved. So I first would say, yes, New Year's Eve, celebrating a year again, it's got to be very difficult for you. But it's also he's doing the work. If he wasn't doing the work, if he wasn't you know, going to therapy, going to meetings, talking to his sponsor, then I would say there's a huge problem there. But he's doing the work. And I, as your friend, have seen so many people change and know that on the other side, like he will be you know, it's just gonna be a year, and it's two years, and it's three years, and every year some new layer is going to expose itself and as a partner you just have to kind of be along for the ride and not take it. But the relapses keep happening. Then then it's kind of like what you said to me last December. You're like, he's not doing the work, Like you can't put your foot in forward either way if he's not doing the work. Yeah, and I said that too. I was like, if he's not doing the work and he's not taking it seriously, then you've got to get out, you know, because just like my husband, if I'm not doing the work to better myself and to get out of my is ms, it's not fair for him to stick around. Brian, when did you decide to be public about being you know, in slaw and sex and love addiction. Well, that's a funny thing. I mean, when I hit ten years, it was this moment and Jan and I talked a lot about it because we've been doing that project we've had together, and um, it was this overwhelmed. I spoke at this meeting and I spoke for forty five minutes, and it was a meeting all around the world over the phone, right and you can call in and even message for the speaker, and I got all these messages from all over the world, and it was such a beautiful moment for me because I felt this, like, Wow, I've hit a decade, which is crazy. Like when I walked into the room, I couldn't believe someone. I remember this guy speaking and he was like, I have eight years, and I was like eight years. I can't even get through a day right now? You know, like I was in so much pain and he the when he was speaking, and now I'm on that other side. It's my it's it's it's almost like God gave me this gift to be the voice for a woman sex and love at it, because women it's more shameful as a woman, I feel, you know, it's more like it's even when a Jane and I were talking, you remember, You're like, it's not real. It's a man. Remember he said that to me. I was like, um no. But I just felt like, here's my chance to give my experience, strength and hope to a bigger than just Los Angeles. And I wrote this Hugh Post article coming out, you know, as a sex and love attict, recover Sex and Love Attic, sharing one of my bottoms, and it was the best thing I've ever done. It was terrified, but then the feedback has been so beautiful and like, my girlfriend has this problem. I have this problem. I can't like stop cheating, I can't you know, keep d m NG guys like everything. And I just felt of such service that it just made me think bigger than just myself for sure. I mean it is, you know, even with negative blowback, or whatever. I know, for me personally, just with our story being out there, the amount of guys that have reached out to me or message me or whatever, and that I've met with and talked with, that's more fulfilling than anything else I could have imagined. And really for me, I've experienced that it inspires my you know, my recovery and everything because you're just add you're including more people like within your story and your circle, and it's like, yeah, I don't want to let down, Gene. I don't want to let down myself for my kids, but you have all these people kind of leaning on you, and you just want to continue to be support for them. And for me, it's just I think that's been a big part of why I've been able to get to a legitimate year is honestly us talking about it so much in which aspect just because more people, so many people have reached out, and so I just feel encouraged, Like it helps me feel encouraged with what we're doing, as opposed to as much shame, you know, I mean, because people lean on me, Guys lean on me, you guys reach out to me and want to talk about these things. So it's just an adelayer for it. It makes us accountable. Also, it makes you accountable, like do you want to go do this thing? I mean even just that chip, that little teeny's you know gold chip. I remember when I was driving to get my six month chip and I talked about this a lot that like somebody like I was intriguing with texted me on the drive to get my six chip, and I remember thinking, do I do what I always do in text back or do I do something different and go get that plastic red six months chip, Like that was more important at that moment than you know, getting my high getting someone to fill me. But I also have to congratulate you in the sense of I don't know at my one year if I could have been so public. There's something also has to be difficult that speaking out at such a vulnerable place, because I remember at my one year I literally wanted to crawl out of my skin. I felt like I was like a snake like trying to shed its skin. Does that is that how you feel? Because that has to be a lot of pressure at this and it's been an unfortunate hat to wear like this early in my recovery process, especially over the last four or five years or four years that our story has been out. But that's the thing. My anonymity was was taken away from me. That wasn't my choice, and so I've had to write it out, you know, and it's it is hard because then when you know, I did have you know, the setback last year, and it's like we essentially have to publicly address it, you know, that's that's it sucks to really for both of us, not just me, but for both of us to for janit to feel embarrassed or to feel sadness around that, for me to feel shamed and embarrassed as well. And so it's you know, it's not easy. And but again we're just you know, we just have to keep talking about it and and leaning on each other around it and be able to express our feelings. You and I, yeah, yeah, because I don't know if my husband, I don't know if Mark would have been able even you know, he's sober like thirty something years and his his own addiction, but that would have been really hard on our relationship the first year going through that, Because did you feel like this first year was like your first you know the other you know, three years ago? Because the first year is the worst. It's the worst. You feel like you're dying. Yeah, you know, because I've I've still been in the program for four years now, it's felt simpler at times because of those initials, just like even though you're doing the work, you feel like you're white knuckling every second of the day. Where I've I've gotten past like that, that kind of those kind of places where you know, when I first entered the room, the whole lust of the mine will go away. I didn't believe that was ever possible until I started getting some time together and and so now like those kind of things are are aren't an equation, you know what I mean, it's as much it's it was just it was still getting to that level of comfortability with myself, and it was just I was just a hard time doing that. The initial stuff was okay, but I just had a hard time maintaining it because eventually I just kind of fell off the wagon. I'll just be reaching for something. I don't know what it was, well, anything to fill that whole when we're feeling even this morning, I have to tell you, like a part of me was like annoyed that I was on a Zoom one of the Zoom meetings you know that I go to every morning, and people were just annoying me, and I was like, why am I so irritated? And it makes you want to like reach for a cookie, are reached for your phone, to look at Instagram, anything you can do to get out of feeling discomfort. And as an addict, especially a sex and love addict or a sex addict and being addicted to people that we have to sit in this discomfort and be okay with it. And it's like, who wants to do that? Who wants to sit and discomfort and be okay with you? Know? I was, I was on a twelveth sevenon this morning and guy said something great that was being real time just with something he was dealing with, and he was making that point. He was like, you know one is too many, A thousand's not enough to exactly your point. You like to take that distraction or take whatever. And I was like, man, it's it's so true, because you know, you have still have those moments where you're like you just want to run away from whatever you're feeling. And I'm sure people who aren't even addicts have that right. They feel their void with something and it's like, again, one is too many, thousand's not enough. It was just it got me today. But don't you feel grateful a little bit? I mean, I have to tell you we have the tools. Can you imagine not having the tools and being in this world pandemic and not being able to jump on a twelve step meeting in the morning, when your kids are driving you crazy, your significant other you're just feeling discomfort, Like, I'm so grateful. I'm extremely grateful for that, and I mean I'm not. I mean it's from a not codependent way, and I'm grateful that I have GENA because I know not to compare, but I know so many other spouses, are so many other guys that are in worse situations, you know, with their significant other. And just the fact that I have a wife that's able to navigate through things as well as Janet ultimately can is a game changer for me, just being someone who does have some codependency tendencies and stuff and just wants to rely. You know, hey, honey, how am I feeling today? Like that kind of thing? To have her has been a big pillar in my ability to you know, feel sane at times. Honestly, along with the work of my program, do you ever ask her to like fix it for you? Not anymore? No, like I'm able to I'm I'm getting better at allowing her to have her feelings, are allowing myself to have my feelings without putting that on her. But you know, I'm Jane got was reached out by somebody um anonymous a day or two ago. And because you sponsor so many people and have so much time in this program, brand, I wonder what your advice would be for somebody that maybe that's listening, that maybe going through a new discovery, especially during the holidays. Because Janna got a message about she just found out her husband was a sex addict, and it's around the holidays, and it's like, what do the what does that other person do to stay sane during this time? I mean, that's a that's a loaded question because there's no right way, like I said to Janna, and and like I stay to anybody listening. If you're with a sex addict, a sex and law addict, a love addict, a codependent, any of those things and they're acting out outside of your relationship, one number one, you can't fix them. It's not Janna's responsibility to fix you, it's not my husband's responsibility to fix me. And they're not reason enough for us to get better. So if you're struggling and your partner is at doing out, you have every right to walk away. Now I know kids are involved. I have a kid also, And if that person is willing to step into a room, step into therapy to get help and find out why they are, you know, watching too much porn, disconnecting, masturbating too much, disconnecting with other people, all that stuff that we as sex and love attics tend to do. You know, if they're willing to look at the reason why it's worth walking through that fire with them, if you love them, because on the other side of it it's such a deeper connection, then then I have ever experienced, like my husband and I are more connected ever than we were like sixteen years ago, and it was because we walked through the pain, walk through like where does he contribute to my addiction? Where what are the things I'm doing not to completely have both feet in our relationship. So if you're out there and you just bound out this information, you know, I would look at the pros and cons is the person willing to do the work, and then you have to make that decision for yourself. Brian, why do people still um Like a lot of people will say and leave comments like oh, that's just a you know, married's man excuse, or like they don't believe sex addiction. Well, number one, I think I think it's the most uncomfortable disease. It's easier to be like, oh, that person's addicted to drugs and alcohol and Janna, you and I have talked about it, and you know, more people are in jail and dead because of sex and love addiction. More people are murdered over sex, over jealousy, over cheating, more people in jail. And I've spoken out jails for a really long time, and every woman in there it was a sex and love at it in some form. So I think society as a whole we lean into glamorizing falling in love, glamorizing sexuality, you know, putting it all out there, um, intriguing, flirting, all that stuff. So society doesn't want to look at it as a problem because if they look at it as a problem, then that means our whole structure has to change. So I think it makes people really uncomfortable with the idea of being addicted to people. And I think they glamorize it because I always say, like, I'm in love with falling in love. I'm in love with feeling that first high, and every movie hits on that almost They don't talk about paying the bills, They don't talk about real intimacy, what real sex looks like after being married for ten years, So I think they want to believe it's just a you know, a cheater's, you know, made up thing to get out of, you know, acting out. But it's not. It's so real. I can't even tell you. I was on a meeting the other night and there was like four hundred people like it's it's this is a huge deal. I think our society is so disconnected, and social media has even made us more disconnected and lean into fantasy and like going online and looking at other people's lives and fantasizing and all that. So I just feel like it's too hard for people to understand that it is not amatic disease. I wish I was, like, I wish it wasn't real. But when you meet a woman that is sixty five, that can't stop cheating. You know, our another man that can't stop watching porn. And it's just like one after the other. And it's every walk of life, it's every gender, it's every you know, that's ethnicity. That's why I tell people, especially in Los Angeles when I was doing meetings there. I mean, you had people from eighteen to eighty every creed, color, sexual orientation, marital status, you name for us janitor to like CEO two huge, it doesn't matter. Yeah, spill all the deeds and I'm kidding. Oh, tell me who, Well, that's what I do. Spill some deeds, but I don't say because I do have Yes, she does, So go ahead and tell us all about the book and then your podcast too. Oh So I did write a book, which is crazy because I'm dyslexic and like me writing a book, I can't even put like a proper sentence together. But I did. My husband forced me to write a book, m In a Loving Way, and it's coming out in in February, and it's caused Secret Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict and there is you know, some stories in there that have to do with Hollywood, have to do with this addiction. How Hollywood amplifies the addiction sometimes and yeah, I'm really excited. I'm really nervous, and I hope people like it. It's based on my life, but it's in a fiction character and it's going to be a lot of fun. I think. And you've read it, Danna, it's it's it is razy. I had someone I had someone read it and they said, and I think you said the same thing. They said, it's like titalizing, but you it's an addiction, so you feel like really wrong. But then you it's like a car crash. You you can't like like you want to be a part of it, but you're like, no, wait, what what am I? And then you have a podcast too, So I love the premise of your podcast to tell our listeners what yours is all about. It's called Secret Life. We started it, my husband and I started it at the beginning of August. We were feeling and I know a lot of people were. We were feeling so disconnected with everything going on, and we're like, how can we give back on a bigger level. So I was in bed one night and it popped into my head, Secret life. Have other people tell that, tell me their secrets? Because I just got done telling. Huff Post came out March night teen, and the world shut down March twelve. So I just got done sharing this huge secret, and I thought like, oh my god, the world is gonna stop. And nothing happened except the world stopped for the virus. But I just realized, like it felt so good to be of service, and it felt so good to let go of that shame, let go of that secret. So I started the podcast called Secret Life, and people come on and share all types of secrets. You know. Some of the first ones were their husbands, their boyfriend was a sex addict, you know, um, coming out of the closet with their parents, having emotional incests with their mom, shooting themselves in the chest with a shotgun, and surviving the suicide attempt. You know. Yeah, two funny ones of like us being actresses and going and like making up that we can do something and then being on set. Like all these different secrets of from all walks of life I have, and I'm just really proud of it because people have found so much healing from that. And it's in Brian. You know, you always say like everyone has an is M, which is always thought it was interesting, like we all have some kind of is m we do. I think what Mike said is that we all use something to get outside of ourselves, whether it be shopping online. I have tons of girlfriends that when they're bored, are feeling not okay, they'll go and shop and it's like I asked them, where are you going to wear that right now? Like you can't go anywhere shy blue? Yeah, like you're not wearing it anywhere. So, or they watch a lot of television and they're obsessed with Netflix. Or you're eating a bunch of cookies, which I had one this morning for breakfast because I was feeling uncomfortable. We all have something we do to get outside of ourselves, and I am trying to make a movement where we stop and we just us are okay with just as we are, where we are, and that we are loved no matter what, with all our brokenness, with all our discomforts, with all our low self esteem, that we're all the same. We're all scared of fear and abandonment at some level as humans. I love you, Brian Um. Everyone followed Brian Davis Um get her book when it comes out in February Secret Life of Hollywood Sex and Love Addict, and then also her podcast Secret Life podcasts UM and just I love you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud to call you a friend. So thanks for coming on, beib. Thanks bye guys, and congratulations on your year. I'll try to accept that. Yes, please do pat yourself on the back. Thanks, bye, guys. You know it's like she ended with their You know, everybody has something that they reached for, and I just want to clarify kind of what her and are both saying on that is that doesn't mean everyone's an addict of something. It's just because there's tendencies behind that. But but we do everyone has something that when they're feeling in a certain way, they distract themselves and it could be a healthy distraction, but we all try find ways to avoid feeling that. What is your healthy distraction? My hobbies? My twelve hobbies. They start a hobby, you buy all the stuff for it, and then you do it like once or twice. What have I haven't I done? Though? I mean you biked for like I biked for a while and I'm still going to once it gets warm again. I'm just not that committed to do it in the cold, to get all of the bike gear and the outfits, and then you're gonna do it. You gotta do alright, Mark, what's your is M? You're defining my is M? A is my healthy way of escaping? Yeah, and what if you have an unhealthy one? Please share with the class producing it's it's been hiking lately. For the past six months or so, I've been doing a ton of hiking since the shutdown. I'm also very into baseball that you are watching baseball and reading about baseball. I mean, it's all all kinds of things. So I mean, it's just kind of the same stuff, you know, Like I said that we're all twelve years old. Inside, it's the same stuff I have when I was twelve years old. Love. Yeah, I mean I think, I mean, my healthy one's running and but my probably my unhealthy is either scrolling on Instagram and like comparing or sometimes well, lately, I've done a better job of not drinking wine when I'm frustrated because I've noticed that, like I was, just would drink wine just to to not feel, which is not a good thing. So now I'm I'm careful to not drink on those nights because I don't want that to become an issue. So earlier before, Brianne, you said something I found interesting. As you were saying about Mike's year, you referred to it as I forget the exact words you use. It's something like, as far as we know, you've been good for a year, and I feel like, of course it's impossible for you to know everything. But isn't there an implied lack of trust in that sentence? I mean, I could see how you would think that, and I get it, but that's how I have to because I don't know. I'll never know. Only he knows, so to my knowledge, i've seen him. If I if I were to say like he is, that's gonna destroy me over and over and over because I don't know what the real truth is. But when you say that, is it a subtle way of saying to him, I trust you to a point I at but just so you know, it's not all the way there yet to me, it's not towards him. I could see how it could. Maybe you can maybe think it's like a passive, but it's more like to protect myself. Yeah, I think I would take it personally, Mike, how do you take it when I used to take it personally for sure, because that's exactly how I would receive it as passive. It's like you're saying you believe me, your trust me, but not really. But over time, I'm able to realize why that's said, because you know, it's kind of you know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, you know what I mean. So twice I've had to reset my time. Well, we've had to reset like four times. We've had two year, three year birthdays and then he had to reset it are twice. I've twice I've had to go back on my one year that well, I'm kind of getting at This would be the third time I've gotten to a year quote unquote because the past ones. So I can understand that you can't just wholeheartedly just trust fall into me, you know what I mean. That's gonna take time, and I got to earn that. Um, So I don't take it personally anymore. I I you know, I take it for what it is, and I understand that there's still a healing and pain behind it. Yeah, my therapist is kind of always said like, because that's that's the knowledge that we know. What we know is you know what we what we think is going on, but we don't fully know. And so if we hold on like no, no, he's gonna then you're gonna like your you can spiral like so crazy out of control because you're gonna want to I'm gonna want to put the control. I'm gonna want to control what he's doing. And because i've I'm like, no, he's not lying. But if I to the best of our not to the best of a knowledge, he's he's straight because I can't control what he's doing. So that makes it um, that makes me not hold the control. And I know it looks like trust, but for me, it's more of just the letting go of control, letting go of expectations and control and the fear. But but that's a good illustration of how this is not really a celebration of one year. It's the temperate enthusiasm behind it. Because Mike's got the shame of hinting this point plenty of time, Janet stick out the as far as we know, so therefore it is what it is, and it's notable, but it's not a celebration, but I think it's still but that makes me sad because I think it's still should be celebrated because hopefully we won't have to come well there, I won't unfortunately be around for the next one if there is one, and that's just the reality. But I will still support him from from afar. What's the farthest we've gotten one year? But again, if it wasn't really sober that now, this is the farthest I've gotten, Because that's worth celebrating. I think, see that's that's and that's what I'm saying, Like that's where I think, you know, that is worth celebrating because yeah, because we've he this is the most sober he's been for a year, Like that's amazing, And I do want him to celebrate that because I hope that it's going to be you know, one year one day and then when you you know, like I'm excited for him. I want him to feel celebration at two years because we never come close to two years. Right, maybe it's nine years. No, No, I mean, hey, every every year that it gets more and he's legit so like you know, like living how he lived the past year. I mean we're going to have massive celebrations. Well and here, but here's the thing that anyone in program would say to all that is, I don't even I'm not even thinking about that because now getting into this point, being the farthest I've gone along, I realized why people in program said it's, you know, one day at a time, because it is, you literally live one day at a time. You know, the moment you start thinking about all that, and you know that's when you you you look past yourself. So I'm just focused on today, tomorrow, will be focused on tomorrow and hopefully next thing, I know, I look up and it's been ten years. Okay, man, Well, I genuinely am really excited to celebrate your one year. And um, I hope that, like you said, there's many more years to come, but for right now, let's just soaking the one year. And I'm proud of you for living a sober year. Well, I appreciate that, honey. I'm really gonna try and you know, I just want to say thank you because you know, I've put us through a lot and you're still here and like I was telling Brand earlier in the show, and you is in a healthy way. You know you're a huge part of my motivation and I just continue to remind myself on how grateful I am that I still have you, because there's a lot of people that wouldn't stick around. So I thank you, and uh, we'll just make the day the the best we can. I love you, see y'all.