You might know Marisol Nichols as Hermione Lodge on “Riverdale”, but she’s here to talk to Jana about an important issue: the safety of our children online.
Marisol shares her experience working undercover to catch predators who target children on social media, and we hear the top red flags parents need to watch for when their kids talk to someone online.
Plus, Jana opens up about how a Tik Tok dance opened her eyes to threats on the internet she never considered before.
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast.
So this week's podcast, do you guys ever watch Riverdale? No?
I did not.
Did I watch? Did I maybe had? I don't know how many seasons there were? Yeah, but I think I watched like maybe three or four seasons. Yeah, I don't remember how many there were, though I stopped at some point.
I think I auditioned for it, but I can't remember.
I feel like we've talked about this. I feel like you did, did I? It was really great?
Uh?
Riverdale?
Yeah? I liked it.
I yeah, I never I never watched it, but I heard it was a great show. But we've got Marisol Nichols coming on, and this is a conversations that started in our dms. Did you ever end up seeing that video I posted? Because I never really talked about it.
I saw your like explanation, but I didn't see the.
Actual video of actual video. It's cute, but we'll get into that. But uh, yeah, she works with a nonprofit organization dedicated to combating human trafficking. So it's going to be a tough conversation, but a conversation that we all should obviously learn. And and and here and how it's just.
It's going to be it's going to be else.
Yeah, a little education, and also it's going to be tough, but it's one that needs to be had. So let's get Marisol on.
How are you guys good?
How are you good?
I'm good. I have my dog on my lap now we're talking. He is refusing to go anywhere else but on my.
Lap, so it doesn't need to go anywhere else.
Well, we're really excited to have you on and have a very important conversation. And we were kind of just talking before the show too, because I remember talking to David because he was so passionate about, you know, all of this, and and then he said that you guys started this podcast and that was I mean, how how many years was has it been?
Now?
Is a two? Three?
Well? Three? Or actually about three?
Yeah, okay three years?
And so you know, I and we were trying to chat because I'm like, wait it did it start from a role? Was it something you've just always been passionate about? Or like, how did you get into the sex trafficking fighting exactly?
It's like the question, I've been doing this since twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. I have my own nonprofit called Foundation for Slavery fee World, and I dove in kind of pretty much as soon as I started hearing about the horrific things that were happening to children, and I was shocked that it was in this country, like it was always something that like that wasn't always, but it was. You would hear whisperings about it back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, and I would I would think, probably like everyone else did, oh, that's such a horrible thing to happen to kids over there. Over there was because there's no way this could be happening, you know, here in America CA. And then I learned it was here in America, and then I learned it was in every single city, and then I learned the extent of it. And it's grown, you know, exponentially since I started back then. So I dove in and I ended up. You know, I'm sure you've read that I've gone undercover and done these stingops in both here in America and different countries off and on for the last decade.
How many sting operations have you been on?
At least a dozen, if not more.
And have you caught them?
And have you caught the sex trafficker in each sting operation that you've done.
I wish I could say, yes, some of them we haven't been able to go back and take down yet, and a lot of them, yes, like that's the payoff. Like a lot of them is these women and children being like wait and able to go home and putting the bad guy behind bars. And it's not like I can say, oh, hey, I did that one. But you know, I've saved the newspaper clippings and stuff when they when they do go down, because it's really nice.
You know, it's really sad. And maybe I'm just missing it. But I just don't feel like I hear the stories of sex traffickers getting caught. I feel like it should be headline, headline news. Am I missing something or is it just not?
I think if for me personally, because it is not like you by any means but a passion of mine. I do see those stories, but I am looking for that, you know, So I am following things, looking at things for those success stories. So I do see them, but I don't think that if you otherwise are.
Hearing a mainstream media, I've not seen them.
When you've got like a diddy. Yes, that's me, sure, sure, yeah, But when it's it's so prevalent, you would think you'd be hearing about it. Oh And like she said, like, once you do start hearing about this and educating yourself, you tend to see it everywhere. But before that, it's just sort of I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's a protective mechanism, but you just kind of it's a hard thing to confront.
Yeah, well, I think what's interesting too. And something that you said was, we think that it's happening everywhere else, and up until a couple of years ago, that's what my thought process was. I truly was like, oh, this just happens in you know, these smaller countries or countries that are far away. There's no way that happens here. And then you realize it's a whate hundred and fifty something. How much money is this business?
One hundred and fifty billion, one.
Hundred and fifty billion dollar business. I'm like here here in the United States, Like, that's right, that's the number for the United States.
It's percent of all women and children that are rescued in the United States from sex trafficking or American citizens.
Like, that's insane, that's I mean, that's just like, how were people not like eyes wide open on that.
I think everyone's sort of still catching up to it, Jane. I think most people are still like, what do you I mean, this happens here? Like even police departments in this country are still catching up to it. You know. One of my dear dear friends started the trafficking department here in the LAPD and he goes around the whole all around the United States, lecturing and talking to other police departments, educating them and teaching them how to do this and what to look for. Because people are still kind of playing catch up. You know, for the longest time, we thought, oh that girl on the street is there willingly you didn't know, Oh she's being controlled by someone that you don't see.
Tell us is there something that you and I know this Like, I'm so overwhelmed by the topic. I think I don't even know what specifically to ask you. There's like a couple of things I have pinned in my brain. But is there something that is like ultra red flag everyone could see that we just choose not to see. When say, you're at a mall or you're on a street or whatever.
That's a great question because there's so many different tactics these guys use. My main number one, major, major thing is Instagram, meta, Facebook apps, anywhere where these predators can contact a child, and I look for who's following. Okay, so there's a young girl, she's twelve or thirteen, she's posting, you know, I don't know her pictures that she drew, and you'll see immediately like hundreds and hundreds of men immediately following her. So looking in the dms, looking in the messages on roadblocks or minecraft or anywhere really where they can contact kids. Another red flag would be, you know, something that's more obvious that maybe a mother would just see going to Like I'm the hawk, I'm the one who will go to a park where my kid may be playing at and then I'm looking for all the men that are at the park, and do they have kids, are they talking to kids? Is there a guy in a car idling which happens all the time, just watching the kids play? So any any like even gymnastics. My daughter was in a gymnastics class and I was looking at the men in the audience just you know, they're observing. And then when the class ended, I was like, oh, half these men are not half. I shouldn't say that. Some of these men aren't walking home with any kids, aren't leaving with any kids. They're just they're observing.
And these are areas that I'd assume you're in safer areas safer in air quotes like it's not like you're I just want to, like, I guess expand our brains in the way that like this is quite literally everywhere.
Christen, you do know, sorry, but you know it's one of the largest hubs is here.
Yeah, Brent with Tennessee, which is rich and spring into spring Hill.
Because of I sixty five. It's an easy out.
Everywhere, everywhere everywhere in the United States.
How do you know what you know and be a mom?
I think that's where like my throat is like literally closing, Like I was reading through everything last night and I'm just like, I just want to cry and I feel helpless and it feels huge and unstoppable, and I hate that feeling.
I'm sorry, as I know, it's just real. It's why I started, you know, my nonprofits, why I started the podcast, It's why I started going undercover because it was so overwhelming. To be honest, I just couldn't sleep. I was like, I don't know how to do this. Once you know, you can't unknow I can't pretend that I don't know anymore that these things are happening, or once I've seen stuff, I can't pretend I haven't seen it. So I couldn't sleep. And so the only way that I could come to terms with it was like, Okay, I have to find something that I can do about this. What is needed? Where can I help the most? And by diving in and learning as much as I could, and then with the audience that was kind of built in from Riverdale, I was like, okay, let me talk about this. Let me. Let me speak directly to teenagers and directly to moms and dads and be like, hey, guys, this is what's happening. This is what you can do to protect your kid or hey, teen that person that you're talking to the guess what that could not be. That's not them, that's not them. Especially with AI.
Remind me how old your daughter is.
Well, now she's sixteen, but I started this when she was six.
Did you let her have what was your journey with letting her be on social media? Did you let her have it? Did you or did you ever see it? Like?
What is? What has that journey? And now that she's sixteen.
So she still doesn't have an Instagram account and not because she she's just like no, she's like no, But it was it was a bit I had to gently explain because I don't want to scare my kid, and how do you explain this? So I would sort of go, look, I go the internet. I would draw a picture and I go, you can contact like all of these people. And I did like a thousand dots, right, all of these people and any of them can talk to you. And then I used like a red pen and I was like that this many people are bad guys and they look like the good guy and you can't tell and so you have to be very, very careful. And then I'm going to tell you what to look for bad guys. But I want to know how old you are. The bad guys are going to tell you you're pretty, You're one. They're gonna be so nice and so interested. They're going to ask you where do you live? Where do you go to school? They're going to ask personal questions. So at first my daughter would go, oh, I just say Venus or I say Canada, or I say this, And then now I'm like, let's just not we don't even talk to those guys. And I explained to her, I go, look, you're going to run into this. It's not everybody out there. And I go and I lecture at high schools, and I lecture at where kids are to explain like, it's gonna it's there no matter what, but if you know what to look for and you know what not to give away, and that these guys can pretend to be anyone. And I show people how easy it is to make a fake profile and put a fake kid's face, and now you're that kid, and you're talking like that kid, because that's what I do in the stints. I pretend to be kid. It's it's just kind of like, do you see the difference, And so she's very I had to educate her because there was no way to avoid it. There's literally no way. You're never gonna unless you never let your kid online, which is I just don't. I don't think that's real. So I had to educate her. And then as she got older, I told her more and more and more, you know, but not not. It's a fine line because you don't want to freak out your kid.
Hmm yeah, and you also want like, you know, Catherine has older children, and you know, she's like, my kids talk through Snapchat, like that's the new generation, Like that's not something. So I'm going to be obviously leaning on her when you know, my kids get older. But you knew she's got high schooler and middle schooler. So it's like that world has got to be so tricky to navigate well.
And I think that every parent parents differently when it comes to that. I know, for me personally, we have those toscussions a lot. I have all their passwords, I go through their dms to make sure they're not talking to anybody they shouldn't. Snapchat is a new one for us. I was very anti snapchat until lately, but they do all communicate via Snapchat, which has been you know. But I just think everyone navigates that differently, and I agree with you that you cannot avoid it and it's a conversation that has to be had, so just everybody has to navigate that differently.
One of the things that I also did because My daughter would do this thing when we were out in public, like let's say we were at like an outdoor mall or something, and she would love to run ahead, and I was like absolute, or she would love to like I want to be friends with this, I want to go here, that kind of thing. So I very gently because what I was saying didn't get through. I had to explain to her. I go, look, there's like I said, there's very few bad guys, but they like, they go after kids, and then these kids are missing, and we don't want that to happen, and it wasn't real to her. It was like, no, don't know. So finally I was like, okay, fine. As she got older, I was like, let me explain this to you, and I went on, there's the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, right, they're the milk carton guys. So and I would go look, let's look at and I would show all the missing kids posters and then it was real. And then she was like, Okay, my mom's not making this up. My mom's not being you know, exaggerating or anything like that. And she finally got it, and now she educates other kids of what to look for and actually got one of her friends off of a chat with the predator.
When did this become the because again my naiveness goes, well, the drug industry, that was what the big industry was. When did it switch to children?
It's a great again, a great question. It's been gradual. But as the internet sort of as the internet and other things became more available to everyone, this the child thing kind of grew. And then not to do a whole comment on society, but we kind of sexualized children. We kind of do. It's like you know, the hot er, all this in music and you see you see it, right, So along around two thousand, two thousand and four, two thousand and five, this whole thing started to started to take off. Because you didn't hear about this in the nineties eighties.
Well that's it.
And I was also curious statistically what the stats are between missing kids in the nineties versus missing kids today, Like what that's what that stat looks like, because that'd be an interesting stat It's huge.
I mean, it's the numbers between just people in modern day slavery overall have doubled in the last decade, like doubled. I remember when it was it was I think it was twelve or thirteen million worldwide, I think back in two thousand and one, and now it is thirty the latest numbers of thirty seven million people worldwide? Why and the sex trade? I believe the number is six point six million women and children?
Do you know the number of girls or women being Is it primarily? I just want to say, is that is that statistically right that it's mostly just women? Or is there also a percentage of the boys And.
There's a small percentage of boys for sure, it's not just exclusively, but the majority is women and children, but it is do people as well?
So what is the percentage of.
The kids being trafficked overseas being brought here? And then is are the American kids that are being trafficked? Are they going overseas too? Like? What is the like when you've seen in your what you've been doing? Like what what does that even look like? Because again, this is the only reference that I have that's been out there, you know, which got pretty much torn to shreds with sound of freedom with what they shared. And I don't know, I've I've heard kind of like people having difference of opinions, but that was the first thing where I was like, oh wow, I'm like, is there a truth in all this?
And yeah, it was very interesting to watch who was doing the tearing. That was interesting to me. I was like, wow, you really have a you're going after this like very Why is what I was exactly why does this bother you so much?
Yeah?
Period? Yeah, like period. It's this has been an issue for it, Like the United Nations has been doing this forever. It was Barack Obama when he was president, the coin the term modern day slavery. This has been going on. It's not a it's not a Republican issue, it's not a democratic issue. It's the one issue that both sides actually agree on. Period. It's kids, right. It has nothing to do with the political climate today, even though it's being sort of turned into that. Right. But to answer your question about a decade ago, it was the United States was not on the list of countries that people traveled to for sex with kids. It's called sex tourism, right, And there's a whole list of countries. I know.
Sorry, so let's just say I'm just say it.
Used to be countries that you always heard like Thailand, you knew about Highland the Philippines, Mexico, Dominican Republic, places like that. The United States is now not only on that list, but high on that list. So a decade ago, if you were a kid taken, essentially you would be shipped off to one of those countries because it was easier. Now that there's not really a need to bring in supply for lack of a better word, from other countries into America because you've got the supply and the demand right here period. You've got it and the majority of kids and you don't And anyone who's listening to this, like, just look this up. Please, don't just base it on what I'm saying. Do your own research. You can look it up. But in America it's foster care children or the number one foster care children and runaways are number one, period. And they're picked up by a trafficker, and their traffic through hotel rooms, hotel rooms and businesses pretending to be businesses, and they're traveled all along the corridors want to be mentioned.
And they're drugged, threatened, yes, fully, all of yeah.
Fully, And I hate to say it, but I'm like, because it's such a horrific and unconscionable thing to imagine. I was like, oh my god, thank god they're drugged, because I can't imagine going through something like that as a kid without something to numb you, something to shield you, because it's it's un it's unthinkable. Now. At the same time, the good news is that there's a lot, a lot, a lot of organizations doing things about this and rescuing children or rehabilitating women and children. And there isn't one sort of state government that I've seen that's not doing something about this, that isn't like, Okay, great, we have organizations, we have money set aside, we have laws being put in trying to tackle this. So that's the good upside of this is that once people do hear about it, they want to help.
Yeah, I mean like, how can we help? Well, how can we go on? I'm like, I want to go into stings. How do we how do I help find these? Like what can we do? And on that side of things.
Like exactly, I mean educating people about it. You have a giant audience. It's that's number one, right because if people don't know about it, people can't do anything about it. And I always say, the good people the moms, the people that are not criminals, the people that don't think like this, don't know about these things, but they're the exact people that need to know about it because nothing will happen about it. Nothing will happen, nothing will be done about it unless good people know about it. So that's number one is education and awareness. The sound of freedom. There's another movie that I'm an ambassador of called City of Dreams. Yeah, that really focuses on just Los Angeles and just the people that are labor trafficked in Los Angeles, which is a case of bringing in cheap labor from other countries, which also fully happens. It fully happens. So that's another movie that's out there that's being, you know, a good educational tool. Secondly, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are already organizations doing things about this, right, so obviously I have one. I'm always like, please donate. We have a whole mail campaign. We have a whole educational campaign that will put together for junior high kids, high school and college. Because it keeps going right and then even your local area.
What is that can you can you talk about that foundation? Just so that what we can all.
Yeah. So it's called Slavery Free World. I Foundation for a Slavery Free World, and I named it that way because I wanted the I wanted the end product. I wanted this idea of modern day slavery and trafficking to be something that we read about in the history books that's just done right that we go I didn't even know, oh my god, and it's done, not something that we have to deal with on a daily basis. So my website is called Slavery Freeworld dot org and we do a lot. In addition to me going undercover when I can with different law enforcement, my main thing is trying to educate preventative because that's what I care about more than anything, is preventing any of this happening in the first place. So the podcast where I Reach My My, you know, a very good audience, which I'm very proud of, but also going face to face with kids. I can't be everywhere in every school at all times, but we're putting together something that we can put into schools that sort of like add a water and mix. Here's the data here. It is geared down to a junior high kid. This is what a junior high kid or an elementary's kid should look for. This is how to protect yourself without overwhelming and making every single person a bad guy, because you don't want that. And then okay, hi, high school, Okay, college, this is what you have to be aware of because and the Internet now is the new white van. You know, growing up, it was like, look for the white van. Sure, the white van, it exists, but it's the Internet now that's the right van.
Yeah, and that's kind of where I want to transition to because obviously this conversation came about after I posted that video of my daughter. Yes, for those that didn't see it, I'd posted a photo video of us doing this cute little TikTok dance. My daughter that morning we were saying we were going to do yoga and then we were going to go grocery shopping and then get some Halloween decorations, and we were doing this. So she comes down, you know, in her little sportspra and little shorts, and I again thought nothing of it, because like she likes to be in the gym while I'm working out and just stretching, and we love dancing. And my almost one year old little boy is just loves to dance as well, and so I was like, oh, we should do this cute little TikTok dance and so I then post it. She was wearing her sports bra and her shorts. I again just thought nothing of it, and then I started to see comments, and you know, I when it came to the thing of the AI and like, I don't know anything. I don't know what AI can do. I because I didn't look at it, and I was like, wow, people are like sexualizing my daughter. I don't understand. And that was that kind of blew me away. But then they're like protector.
I'm like what.
At first, I was a little like this is more than a bathing suit. I don't understand, Like this was a sweet little video I did with my daughter, and I at first was a little defensive when I was talking about it to my husband, but then when I texted David, I was like, Hey, you know this world, and people are saying that they could take her cute little dancing, change her face or use her face and then like AI into a sexual video. If that is the case, please tell me and I will take it down. Like I trust your opinion, because you know this world. I just didn't and I didn't think that that could be a possibility. And he was like, I would advise to take it down. You should talk to Marisol, you know, and this is why. And I was like all right, and then I was like delete immediately. And then I just felt terrible because I'm like, well, I didn't I didn't know. And then I'm like, you know, going through all the things in my brain, and then I'm like, gosh, I posted a video of her in her swimsuit at the pool, and then I'm like, this is so sad that we even have to think about this. I'm like, why can't I just show a beautiful backyard? And then like, I know, you posted things, you know, with your daughter in a bathing suit, and I'm like what, It's just like I'm not saying that to you either, but I'm just like it's just so sad that I'm like, we can't just post photos of our family without being like, oh, the Internet's going to take this and have a heyday with it. But also I don't know the risks, so what are they?
So I mean, AI is a whole other tool that is like a snowball rolling downhill that's growing and growing and growing uncontrolled right now, period and law like, legally and politically, everyone's again trying to play catch up with this thing because this is something brand new that we've never had to deal with. But yes, to answer your question, yes, they can take an image of anybody. They're called deep fakes. You may have heard of deep fakes, right, And they do it with celebrities, but they can do it with anybody. And they'll put your face on a naked body and put it together and you will never, ever, ever, ever know. It's very scary and bad actors are always going to take technology and twist it and use it for criminal and nefarious means. Now there's I work a lot with Meta, right I've actually they're doing some really good things right now. And one of the things that they are doing is they made it so that all child accounts immediately on Instagram and Facebook are immediately private no matter what by default, which means that strangers cannot just DM them, strangers cannot just follow them. You have to approve access and improve access for these guys to have access to your kids. So if your kid is posting something, it's controlled as opposed to just out there in the world. But again you should know and as parents, what these guys are looking for is they're looking for vulnerable children. They're looking for kids that are like that are insecure, they come from a troubled home, that are easy targets, right, kids that are posting things like, you know, f my parents, so I hate my mother, or oh my god, they grounded me again? And sexually sexual kids. You know, we all know kids like this. Those are the kids that they're looking for. They're looking for vulnerable kids. So even in life, I always use this example to my daughter. There's let's say five girls walking down the street and one guy who's a bad guy. I say, hey, you guys are so pretty. If four of the girls are you know, hey f you? Or get away from me or where it all great? The one kid that's thank you, that's their target. They're looking for vulnerable, easy kids. So again this is speaking from the education point of view and how to talk to your own kids and what you're posting. But Janna, in the case of you, I agree with you. It's heartbreaking that you can't just post a picture of your kid Like I went back and I deleted most of my pictures and rain my daughter. I don't post anything of her now as her age because I also know I'm a target. So I'll post something of her being younger. Here she was, I'm so happy of you. You're sixteen years old. Here's a baby pic kind of thing. Because we have to think with we have to think like these guys think, think how bad guys think, and how they could twist something. And then it's up to each individual if you want to you know what you want to put out there and what you don't.
Sure.
I know some parents that are like, sure, fine, I don't care, You're going to do it anyway. I'm proud of my kids and I'm going to celebrate this moment.
Well that's where I'm and I'll let you.
I know you. I know you've got something that you want to say too. But like there was a for me. It's like I don't want to not not share my family because that is a part of I love sharing. But I also know that now I can be a little bit more aware of what I share right to protect.
But sure, Well I had a question about the meta stuff. So they're going to now make kids automatically private, yes, which just so we're clear, my kids cannot have social media that is public. It has always been private. Yes, that is rule number one.
But I hope you know there's no shame either way.
Like I mean, I've gotten it from some people on here because I've open about that my kids do have social media. People like or don't like that I control it. You know they have. They all have opinions, which is everyone has an opinion. That's fine, but just so everyone knows they are private. It is interesting to me to hear that. I love that. But can they change it to public?
Okay, So there's two things coming out, So that's a great question. So by default, every kid's account is now private. They rolled that out. I'm working with them on legislation that. In fact, they just spoke about it in the South Dakota Congress. They're going to state to state the state and them federally. But what they what met US is behind right now is making it controllable. Also at the app store, So what does that mean? So that means that when you buy a phone for your kid and you download the software to start that phone from the app store, you as a parent, right there go, this is a phone for a twelve year old kid.
Oh that's cool.
I know. So that automatically everything that is on that phone is known that it's for a kid, So any every single app, every single thing, every single setting, because who parents know how to do that right and know how to go into every single app and set the safety settings and set the privacy settings. It's impossible, and they're constantly changing. So it's by default that everything would all automatically be registered as a kid. And then anytime your kid tries to change anything, download something, you as a parent get a notification and you can approve or not approve. And it's something that I really really believe in because I think it's twofold, do you know what I mean? It's if we can stop it at the source, so that the phone, the advice itself is registered as a kid. That is something that I think is going to be very beneficial, especially as a parent and how everything's changing and there's new apps and Snapchat and discord and all of these different things. Can we just have one sort of stable thing that everyone just knows and does and it's automatic and I don't have to think about it.
I'm such a This is where I go cynical, though, is I'm like, it's controlled by someone probably in the government that will change it or that can do loopholes around it. I don't know where I just get or corruption twins yeah where. I'm just like it's corrupt and they'll find a way to make more money.
Like it may.
It gave me a deep breath that you said you're working with Meta. I was like, okay, okay, I mean I think I might have taken one breath since you've started talking, because I'm just like.
Spyraling I do a life check on your I'm just this is like.
My worst nightmare. Like it makes me emotional.
I don't yeah, it's scary, mind too.
It's wild.
That's so I have first once I can emotionally get myself together. It's just it's such a big, crazy world and it makes me so anxious as a mom. I mean, I've got beautiful babies. We all want to share our kids are listen and not to like be funny, but like literally it's how I don't have to answer the phone for a lot of people, you know, because like they checked in on Facebook and we can keep rolling, Like I don't have to send pictures out to the group or all the things, but it's so wildly overwhelming because it's like I don't take my kids to target, I don't take my kids to the mall.
I don't want to be that mom, but I am that mom.
Like it's like the I have to kind of almost learn at a real slow pace because I digest it so much into my DNA that I feel like I can't sleep. So one, I want to just commend you for the way that you're built, because I don't. I mean, it's just heroic to me what you're up to. But two, this is more of like a personal question how do you know what you know?
Like how do you.
Come home from being like in a sting operation and then just like wash your face and go to sleep Because I don't, So I don't know how you're processing this, Like you're still just a human and a mom. You know this is really big, heavy, important work that you're doing.
It.
I'm it's overwhelming. I don't come home and wash my face and just go to bed. I come home and it takes me like a week to decompress to start seeing people as normal.
Yeah, like I hate everyone right now. For you. You know, it's a lot.
It messes me up. It takes a toll, and so I dive in and I dive out because otherwise I can't function, And so I have to constantly remind myself and look around and go, Okay, it's not everybody, it's not every man. It's not like go I go if I go to like, let's say when my child was younger, and I would go to a park, and I'd be like, I'd look at all the kids and I'd go, Okay, well, all of these kids are perfectly fine. None of these kids are being taken. Okay, I'll go to a high school. Okay, all of these kids are doing well. The majority of these kids are never nothing bad is ever going to happen to them, And I constantly have to look at and have to like train myself to really look and observe from myself. Okay, the majority of people, I think eighty percent of people are still very good and care very much about this issue, and including men. And then there's just the twenty percent that are the bad actors that you have to protect yourself against. But otherwise I could never live my life, my kid could never live their lives. And it's a it's a it's a balance, but it still is the majority. It's still good.
Yeah, I needed that sentence from you selfishly, just because I default to everyone's a creep. I mean, they would probably tell you I'm the psychopath here, like I'm a psych I mean we homeschool, we do, and not to keep them in a bubble all the way, all the way, but a lot of that reasoning is for me just what they're exposed to. I feel like kids, even and all things, are exposed way too fast, way too soon.
They don't get a chance to be kids anymore.
Like and we've just I think some passionate environment though, like you know what I mean, Like in cat situation, their kids, you know, kids got social media earlier because her kids were hanging on older people, you know, like with the sports and stuff like that. So it's like, you know, yeah, it's navigate it.
You know what I mean?
Like, well, yeah, and I think it's a lot of its conversation but also kind of going back to what y'all were saying and not being able to sleep, I think that touches on a lot of not that people don't know that this is going on. I have a lot of moms that I've tried to talk to about this. The problem is it is so overwhelming they put their heads in the sand. I'm just going to be frank. It is actually very frustrating for me because I'm like, you have to be aware of this, especially if they're on social media, especially if they're online. And I get that it's overwhelming. And I've had people tell me that they're like, if I go down that rabbit hole, my anxiety will be so high. And I understand that, and I think it's figuring out how to go in and go out and to be able to educate yourself. You've done it, but not control your life. And it's not easy. I mean, I understand that. Again, I've had lots of conversations with moms who feel that way, but then they just go, I can't, I can't handle it.
We're really close with the family that's like that, and I can't. I can't know. And kids are on roadblocks and all the things, and I've I know, same face, and I've had to have you know, the kids wear less clothes and I've had to say to my daughter, understand that you would love to wear that crop top, and I said, there's I'm just I have to. She's eight, so you know, they're still young, and I'm going, I'm not going to go in the deep deep dive, but I've had to say that. I was like, there is something something called perception, and I need to help you understand what perception could be if you're wearing something like this or something like that. Like, but it is just crazy that they're eight and we're having to talk about this.
The reason my daughter thought I was okay to wear sports Burrow around the house was because I wear sports Borrow on the house. So like call myself out, like I'm not. That's an example that I'm not really putting my best foot forward with that. Now, would I ever let her go out in public wearing a sports prop.
No, I didn't.
Obviously made her put her shirt off, but then I posted it to too milliy people like.
I was like, I don't think anybody is nailing it, by the way, and I don't think none of us are not nailing it, and I think we're all the reason to me for women that like really have their like pulse on it, I think it's just so overwhelming.
It's like where do we start?
Well, And I was going to say, I mean, and this is hard for me because my daughters a cheerleader who basically lives in a sports bra. R you know, so I want to like throw that in there. I mean, there are definitely things that are I just posted my daughter doing a tumbling pass last night in a sports bra. She is in it ninety nine percent of the time. So I am aware of the AI part of this. I am this close to taking my Instagram but I'm nobody. I am this close to taking it back to the people I know and making it private because I couldn't care less about a following, you know, I am. I think that that's where my path is going because I do want to share that. I want to share that she got a new skill last night. I want to you know whatever. So I think that things will be changing in our household anyway in that sense. But having said that, I hate to hear you say that that was a bad mom move on you because you wear a sports bra to work out. That's not the way to approach this, in my opinion, I don't think that.
But I d saying that for her, for her to come down in a sports.
Bra, I don't. I don't what is wrong with the sports bra. Understand showing it to the world, but what is wrong with her wearing a sports bra.
That's where I'm also like the over sexualization of all of us, Like we're women, we are I If I have an AB, I'm wearing a sports bra so that you can see it because I'm going to be so proud.
And I'm never don't right.
As a mom after you have kids, if you and you have abs, I'm sorry. I'm like, absolutely, I'm not twenty thank you.
You are naked all the time.
But we're adults. It's a thing we're not putting. I'm assuming. Like to me, it's about the intention behind the photo. Like two people could could post the same outfit and they could be similar age, and one could be like posting the outfit because it's like this is only book when I have sex, and the other one could be posting the same outfit. That's like, look at me proud. It's the intention, I think, and the flow and what you're trying to communicate, you know.
Yeah, if you look at these teens, like you're saying, the ones that are more vulnerable, the ones, there is a difference, I'm sorry, than my daughter's account and the daughter who's doing this. It's just doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong. But there's a difference.
Yeah, I'm like, you're literally wanting, you're asking for older men to comment on your page, and like it's like it's painful. As someone close to this person, I'm like, like, you know, young, and it's just you know, it's trying to help teach, but just had a tough upbringing and you know, so it's been it's been hard.
I think that I understand. I have friends that don't want to hear about it. I have friends that are like, I don't know how you do it. I don't want to know. I don't to know. And then literally that same friend something happened with her young son who she thought would never ever, ever, ever happen, and he was talking to what he thought was another fifteen year old girl on Instagram on DM and sure enough, this girl had sent an uber to him at midnight convinced him to sneak out of his house and she caught him, thank god, caught him and called me immediately, and I put her in touch with different law enforcement in that town and whereas and where the boy was headed, who didn't even know where he was going these things. I think when you know what to look for, when you've gotten passed and through the horror of it and you're like, okay, what can I do about it, it becomes less overwhelming because it's specific. It's not everyone, it's not every communication, it's not every single thing, and you know nothing about it and it's all overwhelming. It's very specific. You look for this, this, this, this. You know what to look for, and so will your kids. And those conversations and that education I think is empowered. Not you do have to get through the confront of it, but on the other side, it's a lot easier to control once you know what to look for and you know how to protect yourself and you know how to protect your friends.
What are the ages that it's again statistically, I know it's a bunch, but what does the age range?
It depends on specifically for what thing. So it's as young as an eight year old chatting right and somebody pretending to be another kid and show me or like, it depends on what they're going for. If they're going for I need a video or picture of a young girl showing me her body. That can range from anywhere from eight years old up. If they're going for convincing a kid to sneak out to go do something nefarious with them, right, that happens. That happens. I have a whole episode on my podcast with the sheriff out of Michigan. The guy who's traveling straight state doing this. That's your twelve year old, your thirteen year old, your fourteen year old. And then it also depends on if it's a boy. Right, So mom's out there that have boys, think, Okay, I don't have to worry about that. Well, with boys, what they're doing, it's a fifteen year old, sixteen year old, seventeen year old boy who's you know, they're going through hormonal changes. Let's just say it is what it is, and they're they're looking for stuff, right, and so with that, that'll be your your AI. That'll be your man pretending to be a girl contacting the sun and sending what's supposed to be a naked video or naked picture, convincing the boy to do the same thing. And then they've got them, and then it's it so. And then if it's plain old trafficking and your own thing, that's a little bit older fourteen on up if that makes sense at least in America. Right, this is what we're looking at in America.
That's good to know.
I have a question, and again this might be a political question. You can also pass with it because obviously you're an extremely successful actress. You were on obviously Riverdale. Have you seen pushback from the industry because of what you're doing?
Would you like to pass? You can also pass.
I just know it's okay.
It's interesting to me because I just feel like when someone even scripts that people are wanting to make scripted, there there's pushback on it in this world.
Yes, So you know, I have a movie that we're doing. It started out as a TV show based on my life and as an undercover operative and an actress and a mom. And I will tell you that when we pitched, and we pitched everybody in town. We pitched, you know, Natsille Likes and m and Apple and everyone Fox, everyone, And in the rooms people would be crying, like literally, and every individual that I would meet would be like, oh my god, we have to this is incredible. Almost every I can always tell the one that's like uncomfortable, he doesn't want to hear, and I'm like, oh, I see where you're up to. Got it? You can tell, you can always tell. Unfortunately, every single solitary entity though passed this is too dark, we don't want to And this is right before Sound of Freedom, which is what I liked about Sound of Freedom was that it proved that people wanted to know about this, that that this is. People do need to know. This can't be something that's just in the dark.
But yet so many people wrote that it's all just a bunch of bullshit and that it wasn't That's not true.
Look at who was writing that, right, Look, I mean.
I yeah, why did it become a political thing? I can write? I can never understand that.
I'm like, how are why are we? Yeah?
But anyways, but yes too so so that was passed upon.
That was all passed upon. It Now we're doing it, I think, for lifetime and doing it as a movie, which makes me very very happy because there are now and because of Sound of Freedom, of these other movies and individuals in these positions will make these decisions. They do want to tell this, they do want people to know, they do want to talk about it. So it's very interesting. Janet your question because Hollywood as an entity, yes, there's pushback individuals within there, there isn't and there's no I want to know, please tell us what can we do about this? And so it always gives me hope because when I meet people individually, they do care.
It's just the boss that's paying the bills that's going to end up saying.
Whoever's behind that whole thing. There's definitely a h on it as far as I run across, run across. Yeah.
Yeah, Well, Marisol, thank you for coming on. I mean, you know, there's having me many questions. I you know, would want to ask about what I think. You know, listeners want hear about Riverdale, but honest, this is what I want to listen to. And so, you know, just thank you for coming on and spreading not only awareness but teaching and everything that you're doing. So can you please let our listeners once again know where they can find you your podcast and everything that you're doing.
Very thank you, very much, and thank you for having me, and thank you for talking about the subjects. You can find my podcast Mari soul Nichols podcast. We made it as simple as possible so that it could be found as easily as possible. And then my nonprofit is called Slavery Free World and it's Slaveryfreeworld dot org. And we've got lots of information on there and on the website immediately. So you, okay, what can I do? What else should I look for? It's all It's there and we're updating it constantly.
Yes, I love it.
Well, thank you for coming on. We appreciate you, and let us know when we can join the next thing.
Because yes, thank you, guys, dance take them down, thank you, thanks girl.
Thanks.
I can't be honest ing. I think we all know that we.
Got on the website right now to see what I can do.
I want to talk to children, you about it.
You would probably be great, would be in the like the rehabilitate rehabilitation part of it, agreed, okay, because that would I mean that I wanted to kind of get into that too, But there's just so much to ask.
I could talk to her.
I literally did a part it is, but there's there's that side of it too.
It's so true what you were saying about other people that you've talked to is just putting the hand head in the sand. Because this is was obviously a very tough conversation, and I think a lot of people get so uncomfortable with it that they just don't or it's just too mature. It's like these are our kids, I know. Yeah, it's a wild world, and that it's just makes me sick that it's the number one yeah money maker, Like it's disgusting, and that's what people don't know.
Like, I literally, I don't think people understand those numbers.
No, I really, and I I do think a lot of those people probably will go into the conspiracy of those Oh it's just political.
Oh, it's just I had someone I had this conversation with about when Sound of Freedom Freedom came out and they were very angry about the movie because that's not the only way it happens.
I'm like, oh, I know.
Yes, it's always it's usually the uncle or the person. Yes, a lot of those cases are too Yet it's.
Still shedding light and I'm not saying to be aware.
Yeah, I mean it's people that we know.
And like she said, she talked about how there's so many different ways. What are they looking for, what are they doing? There's so many aspects of this that to me, I can't fathom or understand why any light being shed on it can be a negative, right, And that's hard for me. And I understand that there might be other alternatives or ulterior motives, or there may be whatever, But to me, the positive outweighs the negative to awareness on it. And I understand there's so many different aspects of it, and yes, there's a lot of people that are close to people that do it, but there's also different ways and all the things we talked about.
Yep, learn it all.
Yep, right ladies, Well, yeah, thank a lot, maybe all right, good bye,