Ep. 14 Numbers Don't Lie

Published Aug 13, 2018, 7:00 AM

Jana and Mike get raw and real in this episode, when they go head to head with psychologist Dr. Wendy Walsh. She gives some incredibly valuable advice on how to deal with ultimatums and how to best communicate your needs to your partner. But things turn really heavy when she gets Mike to open up about being love avoidant and his issues with intimacy.   Then, numerologist Remington Donovan comes by to give Jana and Mike a reading, and he puts Mike’s skepticism to the test. He reveals some details about Mike and Jana’s careers and relationship that freaked everybody out.

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Wind Down with Jannet Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. So I am so excited to wind down today because I've got my besties in the studio today, and that would be my husband Hell and then my girlfriend Sarah. Hello. Hello. I'm really pumped because well, I feel bad because Jen sick, but it's also an opportunity to bring in some more of my my friends in here, and obviously my husband again, who has become quite the regular on the show, series regular. I love it's now as he's now. Yeah, he's now a series regular. So I'm gonna negotiate my contract talk later. So I have to tell you guys about Sarah because Sarah and I have a very unique story. Unique me or are you ready? And Sarah's like she's been practicing her I literally called her this morning, was like hey, I voice membered her and I said, hey, Jen sick, can you get to my house? Um? And she lives about like probably pretty five nuts away. I swear she was at the house in like twenty minutes. I am ready to row. She's all about and then my workout clothes. But I got done. You look great. So for everyone that's listening, Um, I I post Sarah a lot on my stories. She's become a great girlfriend of mine here in l A. And we met actually on a Southwest Airlines flight, this is true from Nashville to l A. Nashville was l A to Nashville. You were like here for like three hours. You're like, oh, that's right, because that's when I had that meeting with the I tested for a show and I didn't get it. But it's fine. Um, but no, so Sarah was you were supposed to sit in another seat, so go ahead. I had my dog, the Frenchie, and I saw like two open seats and I was traveling with my boyfriend and I got on first and I was like, oh, sir, can I sit there? It was a middle seat aisle, and he's like, oh, you need a seat for your dog. I was like, oh god, okay, So I looked no. So I looked right behind him and like there's just like this pretty girl and I'm like total judge a book by its cover. I'm like, she's pretty. I'm sitting next to her, and so I just like I was like, can I sit here? And You're like yeah, And then we talked for like the whole flight. We talked the entire entire flight, which I feel like, isn't that opposite just from a girl's perspective, if you're like traveling with your boyfriend or your significant other, it's like a smoke and hot girl like Janna and you're like yeah. I mean, my boyfriend was say it would be great. I was tiring on the plant, like I don't even remember friend, I know, but he was like listening. Literally he sat down and I was like, this is my friend. She's from Nashville, like, she's married, she has He's like, he's like, you got them five minutes before. Literally literally. But I mean that's so true because I would never if there was a hot girl in the row and we were boarding. I'm with Mike, I would I would never sit next to the hot girl. Ever. Here I am, we are here, we are basically Sarah. Okay, so this is how our conversation started. We reading instant best friends than the first five minutes. Then her boyfriend boarded. Okay, so let me just tell you this story. Her boyfriend said, Okay, I talk. Oh no, here we go. Okay, here here it is. We're sitting down on the plane. This is my new best friend. She's in the middle seat, and usually like you don't talk to the person in the middle seat, so it's you know, but like she's really cute too, and she's fun and like, okay, this is this is cool, Like I have like a new friend. This is awesome. So then her boyfriend sits down and he's he's cute' that's just not my type. But I didn't mean like that, no, no, no, he just keeps to himself, like I don't even think he probably said HII, like maybe he said hi, but he's just like me, okay, like take him next to mine. He's so cute. He's cute. Yeah, not my tie anyway, So he dying right now. I mean if he was bald, i'd be like, not really cute. And he has a lot of hair, so yeah. Anyways, her boyfriend sits down, who's very cute, and um, so we're talking and I noticed that he's in like he has like hockey gear, you know, it says like hockey school. And I was like, oh, I'm obsessed with hockey, like absolutely obsessed with hockey. I grew up you know, as a figure skater. I loved hockey players. I loved watching hockey, like the whole dire thing. Why did you know? I didn't say I love hockey players, like, oh god, she's a queen. I just sit here and watching. I know that both of us. You know, I'm just saying I love like I love. Yeah, absolutely fun back, Jenna loves hockey. Thank you, Sarah. So I started talking to her boyfriend and I was like, so, where were you guys at? And you guys were just at a hockey you guys we were going to Nashville for the Hockey score. Yeah, hockey camp. And I was like, oh, that's you know, that's really cool. Um, you know, that's really exciting. And I was like, did you used to play hockey? He's like, yeah I did. He's like I played for a little while. I was like, oh that's cool. Heays like my dad played hockey and I was like, oh that's I was like, oh that's really cool. She literally goes, oh, so like did he like play a lot? So I said, I was like, so he plays hockey. That's that's really cool. And then I kind of started talking to Sarah again, but again, huge hockey fan over here. I kind of wanted to know more about you know, was it was his dead good, like did he like play play you know, because I'm like, who knows, Maybe he was just like an overseas player and never actually like oss like maybe he was like he didn't go professional kind of thing. It's hard. Hey, I will back her up. It's hard to make it. Yeah, I get it. You were like maybe he's like, yeah, dying in like Russia. Yeah, like, which is still great and amazing for this, I'm gonna stop. But anyways, so you know, I kind of asked again. I was like, so was your dad like good? And he's like, yeah, you know he was, he was good, And I was like, oh cool. I was like, did he play like on a team that I would of like known. He's like, uh maybe, and I was like okay. So then I started talking to Sarah again and then I was like, god, I really want to know, like is someone that I know because again a big hockey fan over here. So then I was like, so what I like know your dad and he's like, um, yeah maybe, And I was like, well, what's your what's what's your dad's name? Like maybe I do know him. He's like Wayne Gretzky and I go, you're an literally literally look at him and goes and he just like started dying laughing. I was like, Wayne Gretzky could have just started with that, like the greatest hockey player of all time? Put your dad name the great one. Yeah, okay, I was just like, so I then stopped talking to him because I was mad at him. Um, Sarah, So obviously I don't have my period right now. Um, what kind of tampons do you use? Um? That's like super personal. But no, that's okay, you don't have to use I think I used like this play tax I've never used a tampon? Are you serious? Yeah? What do you use? Yeah, I'm not afraid to admit it. Yeah, no, I just never have ever And I'm forty four. Why have you? Just like are you afraid? It just seems a little interesting. But that's what about like Lola, because they pall and right. But I'm sorry, I have to get back to this, but like you have, you have other things to go up there. Well, hey, that's fine, Uncle Roy, poor uncle Roy. Um, that's really funny. No, but that's true though, Lola. You need to start using Lola because so you're play tax ones that you're using, they're not organic and uh. Lola is a female founded company offering a line of organic cotton tampons, pads, liners, and all natural cleansing wipes. So unlike all the other major brands, Lola products are a percent natural. So I mean for me, like you're worried about what you put your body, you to be worried about showed up there. Yes, yes, and you don't have to worry about it because it shows up at your house exactly so you can pick So for example, like when you go to the store and you're picking out your other tampons, it's like, I'm so embarrassed to check out, Well are you really okay? I was like I'm the person who I was like a fifty o'clock. I'm like, here we go. Well, but there's a thing like you don't need a fifty you know. It's like you're gonna have so many like you know, lights, but it's like this way, like a Lola, you can actually customize the number of super regular lights that you want. So you're not and then it shows up to your door right when you're it's like, oh, hello, I'm about to start my period because low ledgers shot up in my door. So a forty percent off all subscriptions. Visit my lola dot com and enter Janna when you subscribe, that's my lola dot com promacode Janna for forty percent off all subscriptions, my lola dot com and enter Janna. Well, this is when I knew we were going to be best friends, because we're sitting there and she's like, so, how long have you guys been together? And I said almost five years? And she looks at him and goes, what the f are you waiting for? And I said, oh my god, like I think, I like almost wept. I was like, thank you, thank you, like somebody thank you. And he was like, oh my god. He like this girl that i've number five. He's like, you told her to say that. I'm like, I don't even know her, That's why I but that's again, it's five years, Michael, like, and I know that You're like, oh, that's such a jama thing to do, but it's five years. That's like I would say that I did it stranger again, she did not. I don't know. We'reybody come like besties, you know. But now I'm like, still to this day, I'm like, what are you doing no. And then we're sitting there and she's like, so I'm like, okay, take the heat off. So I'm like, oh, what's your story? Like literally, I go how long have you been married? And she goes happily and tally looked at me. I was like, oh, I was like, okay, I don't know if I should have them talk to each other. I mean, just a perfect storm. Sorry, that's always my leading, Like I'm even Mary for I'm like happily or no. But it was so funny, like she didn't think she was ever going to see me again. I don't think I was going to see her again. We were dying. I mean we were a very honor very It was like one of those things where like when you think you're never going to see someone against, you just go all out, just like full disclosure, here are my fears, here my dad is. And then five years like what is happening? And Aby wants to know this because she's in something where it'll be a hundred years. So it's like she but this is good. You need to hear this because she's putting her foot down. So like we're almost at six years and what is it good? Oh? No, it couldn't be. It's good, I know, because it's something that I want. I want that he would have a baby. Now she doesn't want to go on that order. She wants to be married first. I'm on like Jana scene where I'm like, it's just what I want. I just want that union. I just want the marriage, like I just want to text back. But it's literally I said him a picture on the plane and it was the aisle and it was and I literally was like all my friends walking down the aisle and I'm just walking down the plane aisle like no, but I did that all the time to him. So I did you put your You did because we had it. Sarah's like, now become our our child, our child Jolie. Yeah, we call her Jolie two point oh. She's whenever it's Mike and I, it's always then Sarah. She becomes our our daughter, and it's always like third You're not like third wheeling because it's truly like our daughter. But we're like the same. What an honor. But so you came over and looked out with us and you're like, guys, I'm gonna I just w was say, Amy, listen up. This is where you need to hear. I just was like her dad, actually my dad and I had a really good talk and he is like, you know, he's the dad and we had like a really emotional talk and he's like, I just want you to be happy, like and I could. I am happy. And so that's why I go back and forth, because I'm like, why would I I have my girlfriend sending me like bumble pictures and they're like, thank your man tonight, like the freaks are out, and so I'm like, why would I like rock something that's so good? But however, you know, I just don't want to look back and be like, you know, like what if he never marries me? Right? But what if you're happy for a hundred years and she doesn't want that. She wants to be married. You know, She's like, and we may want to go another six years. Such an interesting conversation. It is such do you want to have a piece of paper? Do you want to be happy? I know what's his hold up? Maybe he's seen unhappy marriages. I think he just with GWayne Gretzky and no, he like literally he doesn't have a reason. So I think that's why I'm like, if you had like a reason. He just says, like why why? Now? Why rush? How old are you? How old is he? He's I know, I know, but but she's from Texas. Her little sister just got married. Yeah, that's hard when you have That's the main thing is, it's a lot of pressure for me. I'm the one who gets all the questions like why is everyone asking me? Like why what about not worrying about the noise? Because she wants to have because I do want that with him, Like she wants to start, like and here's the problem because I feel like guys too in l A. It's very different from like, you know, you guys back in Baltimore where it's it's the guys here in California are like ten years behind. So she doesn't want to be thirties seven and still in a situation where she's not married and doesn't have kids totally where I think with you Michael, like yeah, it depends on Yeah, I think geographically he does have something to play to a part to play in it. But also what your parents are still married, right, They've been married for a long time. Literally, Like even in my sister's wedding speech, I was like, I'm someone who can definitely say, like, I think my parents have the perfect marriage. His parents have been married thirty years, mine are almost out thirty, so like we both come from that. I just I'm like what he literally is like, go like, why rush? That's literally his rush? I mean that's literally his why rush? And you can tell him it's not about rushing, It's about this year the person I know I want to spend the rest of my life with. Marriage is something that is important to me that my parents have shown me a good example, and it's something that for me, I won't feel complete until I have that, and I want to complete my life with you complete. So why not do that complete me and marry me completely? No, that means like that the more he gets it now. A year ago he was like whatever, but like he gets it now, So what's the timeline now? I mean, what do you mean, like, if you're thirty and you are still not don't have a ring on your finger? No, I'm thinking, like I think a year. I think it will be happening in a year. And you said maybe, you said be prepared for the consequences of what happens when you do pressure him. Yeah, like you're going to break up with this No, And that's the thing. It's all just talk. I'm so talk she but I will say this though, is like she's not doing the things that she's Yeah, it's like it's almost like holding you back in a way. I just want that, like it is I would say, I just want that, like because it's like what is my purpose? Actel Like I'm just following him here and there, and they're all my families and Texas and I just sometimes, you know, I get home, I have tons of nieces and nephews, and I just sometimes feel like I'm missing out. And I'm like, if you give me that, if you become my family and it's you and me, then I have then I'm fine staying here in California and I'm fine. If not, then it's like okay, and then I'm thirty, then I just start all over and do I move back to San France? Like this the great debate of all life? Literally because you're happy. I'm so happy married people, I know, but there's still something missing though. That's the thing. You can still be like missing just because you're pretending it's missing. Do you know what I mean? Are you making up that it's missing. Maybe it's not missing because she wants I just want to just I'm just so stubborn. Everybody support No, it's literally God, I gotta get to Texas. No, I think I'm just so stubborn. And so now I'm like, now it's a thing where like, okay, you won't give me a ring, so now why won't you? Wendy Walsh gets here. Dr Wendy Walsh, this is like a great thing to start with her, because you might be sabotaging your own happiness. I know I probably am like a psychologist, but here's my question though, but she might not not just to play Devil's advocate with you. Just what you just said, Amy is she might be sabotaging her own growth and her own dreams and aspirations by being held back by someone that isn't wanting to move forward with her. And it's a crap shoot, hold on, I'm getting the doctor, okay. But I mean from a guy's perspective though, like you don't want to feel rushed. I mean I remember in the very beginning, I mean I put my foot down and I was like, look, we own this house together. I don't want to play house put her ring on it. This is what I want. I told you what I want, and you're not in the same page. Get out like that's the I just have a very like, this is what I wanted. But then he would he didn't like the It's not that I ultimatum do or made you rush, but like, but because of my codependency, it felt like that, and so I felt like I had no choice and that was because of my internal struggle. So I felt like I had to do that to keep her happy when ultimately created a lot of resentment in me. Now, granted, you guys have five six years and our timeline was a lot shorter. So but I come from like I mean, my dad was married once. All I have three older sisters, they've all been married at least once, and so I come from line. I know that, you know, divorces a real thing. And so that's why I've worked so hard to not pressure him, not ultimate um him, not because I don't ever want him to to ever have that to throw back at me. I want and I tell him, I go, I just want you to marry me because you want to marry me. Well, but that's the thing too, that's why you don't want to have kids first because you don't want to feel like you're getting married because I had to kid, because that's that sucks. It's like, oh, so you're just really marrying me because now I'm pregnant and now I'm like, I now I have your kid like that. Even Jane, Jane wanted to try to get pregnant we we got married. When I said I didn't want to have a baby until we get married, and she was we decided, Oh no, you guys, I'm never coming back. I thought we decided that we wanted kids, like we're gonna start trying. Oh my, Mike, Mike. We we eventually got to that point because we had our wedding plan. So we're going to we're on our way to get married. Yes, Okay, So Sarah and Amy, I want to tell you guys that Beauty by Design. Do you guys know about beauty I've been wanting you to tell me about Okay, So they offer a complete skincare solution curated by online seseticians, which I think is amazing because you never really know, like like are do eseticians? Like they're actually like picking it up for you so you can get a skin diagnosis and basically matched customized just for you. So like, if any issues that you're having with your skin, you can basically get it. Get it expert advice by and by text too anytime you want. Uses over two safe and natural active ingredients that carry unique therapeutic properties to give you a healthy glow and radiant skin. Um. They have a hundred different products so great for sensitive skin or allergic skin. Um. You choose from cleansers, moisturizer, serums, I creams, and more, and it's perfectly matched for you. And I feel like whenever I go to the store, I have a hard time. I'm like, well, I don't really know what I never know what I need. I just throw things in. Here's how it works. You start by taking a skin survey and snap a quick selfie. You'll then review your personalized skincare regiment with a live a setition by text message. Based on your mobile consultation and survey responses, you will receive a list of recommended products with you. So that's great, Like you're literally sending a pictures that's so cool. Um. And then you can you know change to like if you're faces, you know changing through hormones or seasons whatever like, they can totally change it. So for off your first order, visit Beauty by Design dot com slash Janna and use promo Oh Janna, that's Beauty by Design dot com Flash Janna, off your first order Beauty by Design dot com slash Janna. We've got a doctor in the house, ladies and gentlemen, I mean your personal space, because a stay can come a little closer. We have Dr Walsh here with us today in studio. Hi. I'm Janna. Hi, it's nice to me. This is my husband, my loving husband. So I would call the two of you on first sight, just the highest ranking mate ever when we're looking at mate status. So your babies are damn gorgeous. One we have one and I one on the way. We have one congratulating. And how old is a baby? She's two and a half spacing. Yeah, so it's it's good. And then that's my dear friend Sarah, Sarah, nice to you. I'm Dr Wendy Good nice to you. Oh oh, she's just an a very um she's it's she's been in a relationship for six years and she's kind of at that point where it's like what are we doing? You know, I call it the stalemate, the stalemate where you're just in a steelmate. So first of all, I need a couple of demographic questions. How old are you? How old i've he's okay, he's from California. I'm from Texas. Huge difference because in Texas traditional should have been married like fashion. Right. Okay, And um, how long you've been together? Almost six years? Okay, he's a cancer. I'm a scorpio. So let me throw some stats at you. Okay. Average age of first time marriage for men is about twenty eight. Average age of first time marriage for women is twenty six. When I say average, that's an American average. So we're not talking about l A and New York. We're talking about the whole country brought in together. Now we're also seeing, you know, women have this thing called a fertility window that men just don't have. By the way I had if you had to guess, what do you think the age of what age a woman is where she is most biologically fertile. Well, she has the most eggs at eighteen, which is why those girls get I think, But um, I would say twenty six. So what happens is we're all born with about four hundred little suckers tucked into our ovaries. We drop one, two or three a month if you're gonna have triplets, and um. So what happens is our fertility stays really strong through our twenties. It takes a dive at thirty, falls off a cliff at thirty five, and by the time you're talking forty, you're talking about high incidents of you know, disabilities, autism, et cetera. However, our culture is not matching up with our biology because right now we have more successful women than men. In fact, they're more women in the American workforce than men. And for every two guys that graduate college, there are three women. So when her is women are eating up their fertility window with education and career building. And then there's this scramble in the early thirties, a crazy anxiety that women have that men. Because you came into a great debate, let me just tell you this, Okay, you can just laugh all you want, sir. My mother went through menopause at thirty three, so I started to freak out. So I met him and when I was thirty one, so I'm like the biological reality, I was like, look, this is this is what I want. I want to get married. I want to have kids like, and I want to do it within this window because I'm freaking out if I can't have kids, Like my purpose in life is to be a mom. Like. What I like about you is that you're a smart woman who knows that you're in charge of relationships. Guys, just follow along. If we don't negotiate commitments questions. We don't have grooms magazines, all right. They don't spend their whole life dreaming about what tucks they're going to wear to their wedding. It's up to us to make the ultimatum happen, to negotiate commitment. But we have to be to find out. But here's the problem though, And here's the problem with that. And let me just say a side note, sidebar. We're going back to the pin. I did that because I wanted to freeze my eggs because I was so scared of not being able to have and of course those embryos weren't good enough to you know, to freeze, so we implanted whatever back to He held that against me, though, Yeah, that's what I don't What do you mean again? She missed the fact that I was like, this is what I want, and I want it now, like you know, I want in this window, this year period. And he held punished against what was his punishment? There was no punishment. Well, then he is not held against you. You won. No. She said that if basically I didn't jump on board, then she'd find someone that would. There you go, that's called an ultimatum. And baby number two, you're married, you're together. Right, We had major issues. So what guys, it hurts. It hurts, But if you want to get with an a list number time and get with the program. But here's the thing though, how for for a man though, Like because he used that against me and then that kind of fed into his his mental health stuff that followed that. So his punishment was kind of a little bit of emotional abuse. Yeah, alright, just keep your eye on the prize, which is the long range goal. Work through his emotional He'll get over it. He's good, lacorious name, that's happy, sweet baby girl. Another one coming. He has the world right now. He just needed to guide him a little bit towards that perfect life. Yes, as I said, no man reads a groom's magazine and that's not there because there's so much pressure on us. And that's what I think. Well, I also want to say something else, Sarah, is that we live in a culture with a very narrow definition of what it is to be masculine and what it is to be a man. Spend some time in Sweden, as I just did a few months ago, Oh my goodness, such a wide range of masculinity on display. First of all, they legislate fatherhood because they give you eighteen months off, but a woman is not allowed to take all eighteen months. Dude has to take a chunk of it. So you see these marauding rows of gangs of baby wearing guys everywhere. It is just that's beautiful. It is beautiful. And so what happens here is that guys don't realize they've ingested the rules of the man box and they're put in a very narrow man box. And so giving them the opportunity to be a good father, to be a loving husband is what women are doing by guiding them a bit, right, they're letting them out of the man box. Yeah, okay, Sarah interrupted you. Oh no, no, no, I was just saying that. I just think it's not fair that there's so much pressure for like women when it's like why biology, no one's asking him when we're getting married. Everyone asked me, and I'm like why, I don't know you have a fertility window. It doesn't. And so the ultimatum is the so you you think there should be an ultimatum given to him. I'm a big believer in ultimatums. I just think, well, also, what happens is this, do you guys live together? I know, so here's again just statistics. Just because there's statistics doesn't mean you will fall into that group. But generally, if you live together before marriage, and the longer you live together, the worsh your marital outcomes, the higher divorce rate, the less chance you'll actually get married, because what ends up happening is you burn out the passion years. You know, we comfortable. I mean we're comfortable. Yeah, you're far in each other's face. Now, well no, no, actually I am not. No, We're not like that. That's a big thing I'm not about. But yeah, I know we're comfortable. I'm a lady. Janna's burping up a storm every time it gets me, But I know even when she's not, um, yeah, and I know, I know, I don't know. So the thing is, you have to be at your state of readiness and if in fact, you do want to become a mother. And as a little caveatte, I want to add the twenty percent of human beings male and female do not become parents. Now, that doesn't mean that we're not or to reproduce. How do their genes stay in evolution's chain if they don't become parents, Because every allow parent, allow parents. Somebody who has not a biological interesting kids, but somebody who cares about kids keeps their genes by being the best and the best uncle. They also help nurture the culture because they tend to build businesses that employ families, they tend to build charities that help children. They tend to just nurture the culture at large. So I'm not thinking that every woman out there has to become a mother, because I mean, I was a single mom, a single mother, have been for fourteen years and if I didn't have a bunch of child free girlfriends helping me out, I could never have survived. And so you know, you're going to make the decision what you want in your life, make a relationship life plan. This is the dat I want to get married, if that's what you want, This is the date I want to have a kid by. And then you're very calmly going to inform that date and that relationship plan to your partner and the step up and if he can't step up by the eight then you have to be prepared to find a mate that will. Yeah, I feel like you hold you're you're You're staring at Wendy and you're like, you're disagreeing. I'm just taking it all in. But I feel like you're like you kind of looked at it or like because I feel like when like when we have like, um, Julie two point our conversations, me and you guys, the ultimatum thing, you guys are kind of torn on it. Okay, babe, do you want to elaborate on that a little bit? Because I feel like you were you were given her the eye of like I don't agree with that at all. It's not that I don't agree I agree that men in general, Yes, we need a little pressure, because God knows that. Janna's pressure me in situations. I needed that um to mature and take the next step. But I just have concerns, just knowing how I am personally with whether it creating resentment or just holding something against my partner because it's something that maybe I'm not ready for, maybe something I really don't want to do now as a man, that's up to me to express my emotions around that. And I found that through Janna and not communicating better in our relates ship now that I don't have resentments like I used to because we are communicating and I'm communicating about my feelings. But because he was so codependent in the beginning of our relationship whatever, I but then held that against me, which is unfair, Which is completely unfair because I didn't tell her how I felt about it, and I couldn't not only that, I couldn't say in a healthy way because I would let things bottle up inside me. And then I'll just explore. Many men need to learn that lesson or to actually um find words for their feelings and express it. Because you know, what is a relationship. A relationship is an exchange of care. That care can take many forms. It can be sexual care, financial care, child care, domestic responsibilities care, emotional care, physical care. When someone's ill right and so when we're talking about Sarah being in a relationship where you've been exchanging care. You now have a need that he doesn't have at this stage, at this time. And when I talk about ultimatums, I'm not asked you to be manipulative and try to get him to do something. I'm asking you to look at your own goals, your own life and put some boundaries on yourself because you can choose to wait it out until his state of readiness, which may or may not come and may or may not come along your fertility window schedule. And that's the thing too. He when I see him with children again, I weep, like he's so good with like that's when I love him the most. And we both come from big family, so he has nephews, I have nieces, and so we both love kids. We both but I'm just like, come on, I just want that order. I just want to let the conversation start with something about your relationship life plan. In other words, you know, honey, um, I don't want to pressure you. I love what we have going here, but I need to know where the end game is and when. So, what age do you think you'll be when you want to have kids? That's just explore are his needs we've had, Like that's the thing is we've had a lot of talks over almost six years, and they're always good. And he knows. That's the thing is he knows what I want and he knows how I'm feeling. But what does he want? He just wants me forever. He wants He tells me all the time, I want to be with you forever. I'm gonna be with you forever. I just I'm just why why do we need to jump into something? Why do we need to rush into something? And again, I don't think six years, I don't think we're jumping or rushing. But I think that he just again California. Mean he doesn't have any married friends. Yeah, that's part of it too. And I have a lot in not in l A. And so it's marriage is contagious. I just like divorces. And she sees me like she comes every time she comes over, it's like she's with my daughter, and then like I'm pregnant and you know, so it's and so I think that again, and I've always said this, if he had a friend like in his get engaged, we'd be two months later. He does not. I just I think he just does not want to like I don't know, I don't know. But like we were talking before, no other issues, no other what do you want? I wanna I want to be with him forever. But and do you want to become a mother? I okay? And do you want to do that by the time you're what age? I mean, yeah, I want to do it a sap oh sap. Not when I'm thirty two. No, I mean I would have liked to have already had Like then you're there, you're there, but he will have a baby without He is fine to have the baby. So maybe you just need to adjust that part of it. No, not if you've been together six years and you're from Texas and he can respect your background and he knew this, he knew what he was signing up for when he walked into It's the thing, my traditional value, my family love. I mean, his family loves me. I love his family, My family loves him. But I just like mind, I just it's a respect. I don't know what happens if he says no, he want to know my prediction. Here's my prediction. You eys are going to break up and then you're gonna get back together and get engaged. That's how the ultimatums work. I disagree, not gonna happen. He will not break up with her, but she she's he has his cake and he's eating it too. She lives with him, So the words mean nothing unless they're backed up by action. Action is her getting her own place he's been, But I just she's been saying for six years, this is what she wants, and he's not doing yet right, So we're nothing gonna do it right when he's right. It's like if you tell your two year old, no, you can't have a cookie before dinner, that two year old is going to keep going to the cookie jar until you back it up every behavior. But we can't all just have everything we want, like we're not. I mean, I get it. Maybe. Wait, wait, we're talking about the one thing we're put on the earth to do, which is to reproduce. So he said yes to that. He just isn't ready to get maybe, but that's but if it hadn't been six years, it hadn't been six years, I understand, Like, not everyone can get what they want. She's waited six years, so she hasn't she got what she wanted. She'd been doing it years ago, like really putting the heat on them. But there's two things that she's staying true to which I think are very valuable. The fact that she wants to get married before having children, and that she wants to have children with him and not and nobody else wants him or marriage than a baby. I mean obviously him, because that's what I go back and forth about. I'm like sacrifice, I know, and that's what that's the only thing that we find. I say something that he needs to hear from you, that we're not a socialist country, where a capitalist country. We don't have a big safety net for single parents. If people have babies out of wedlock, statistically break up rate by the time the kid is ten. So the best nest we still have in modern America is two people, hopefully with a biological interest in those kids, to help raise them. I'm not a big believer until Death do us Part because I think when Until Death do us Part was invented, death was pretty imminent, and because of our long lifespans, even the most monogamous of humans will have two or three long stints of monogamy. But I believe you sign up for eighteen years and you're about to sign up for another eighteen then you're in it. Yeah, that's the commitment, and that's the thing the relationship grows. So why not have that marital contract because research shows it's the thing that keeps people in the game. No, And I told I mean, like I said, before he comes, his parents have been married forever. So it's just something that I want. I would like to rena look like his mom to get that. What I think is interesting though, I think what amy it's like because you're in a different path, Like, you don't you don't want kids, so it's like you're fine with not being she's the great allo parent here. Yeah, and she doesn't. She doesn't want to have kids. You know, she's your in your relationship, you're just wanting to You don't care about getting married. You just want the guy you just want. So it's like you guys just have two very different which is like, yeah, what on a saying is so interesting? I come at it from a completely different perspective. I want to keep talking about this, and then I want to talk about all these bad marriages too, and see what Wendy thinks we people need what do you mean bad marriages? Think of these people that, like, we all have friends. I'm not talking about you guys, because you guys are like working it out, it's great. But I have so many friends that have been married for ten twenty years. Like I have a girlfriend who the marriage is just dead. They've been together so long. It's not miserable, but there's just no there there, And what are those people supposed to do well? Also, looking at any relationship from the outside is impossible to imagine what they're experiencing inside, because there can be a level of secure attachment that you say there's no there there and they feel absolutely secure. Oh no, this is her words. She's telling me that it's well, I think for like when this is what I kind of tell Michael, and which is what I you know, I'm scared about. Yes, we've had some massive issues in the relationship. Were repairing. We're we're at a good place now. It's going to be constant repair and constant communication. But my fear is that when we keep going, you know, more years, there are times when we might grow and be different and change, and it's like, how do you how do you stay connected? Like so that we when we get to our tenure, I'm not here. I'm here, and he's like over here, and it's like, how do you stay together in that? In addition to relationships being an exchange of care, the other amazing thing about relationships is they're the best gymnasium we have for our minds. They help us grow. And that back and forth tangle that you're describing is the life of a healthy relationship. As two people grow, life is changing every second, every minute. Our fingernails are growing so fast, at a nanosecond, they're growing, right, Everything is changing. The person that you married will biologically not be the same person seven years later. Every cell in her body will have been replaced. And along the way, you guys get to tangle with each other and learn about yourselves and grow because that partners do you believe that partners do fall in and not of love in marriage? Oh well, let's define love. There are lots of different kinds of love. At the beginning of a relationship, it's mostly lust and passion. Right after a while, it gets into intellectual commitment, love commitment for the kids and for you know, the families brought together, and maybe the incomes and buildings, your or houses, your building and things you're doing right. You made an intellectual commitment to ride out the bumps because it's the long game is so important. And then eventually the couples that stay together the longest fall into something called mature companion at love. Look at your parents. If you say your parents have been married together, I promise you it's not first aid sex for them, if they're having it at all, but they're not going anywhere because they have mature companion at love. That is so good for our physiology to have somebody who knows you so well, who can almost read your mind, and someone who will still tangle with you and argue with you if you're straying out to be the key, Like Jeanna and Mike have junk and they're always kind of work. Everyone does. But I think that marriages that seem to need to be done are the ones where there is no tangling. It's so done. And I have friend after friend after friend who like they're just waiting for the eight teen, waiting for the kids to go to college. But that's so kids. I don't want. If they're not happy years, they they're not miserable. There's just nothing. What is that and what do you do about that? Well, that that's just two people not growing together, or it could be mature companion at love. And you're judging it based on sexuality. You know, there are lots of wide range of sexualities and every kind of relationship. Some people have sex every day, some people have sex only on Christmas, you know, and and some don't have it for years. I mean, they're just there's a wide range of sexuality, So that's not a litmus test to judge a relationship. Um. And the highest divorce rate is when the empty nest happens because they forgot to repurpose their relationship, They forgot to create whatever retirement life they want to have together, and they grew separately. Um. I do think that there are some people that have kind of an avoidant attachment style, meaning that they're actually afraid of emotional intimacy, so they live like roommates in their house, nobody entering tender private areas of their psyche and living like perfect roommates together and for them that works. Now you and I would judge it because we're intimacy addicts. Why do you think I'm in this business? Right? I want to know it's in your mind. I want to feel what's happening, right, So I would look at it and go that would never work for me, but for them when they find for them, they're not happy. All these people telling me they're not happy. But I was telling you all these people, all I have girlfriend after girlfriend after girlfriend telling me these same stories where I think we're nailing it, but they're not happy. They don't like here, here's one of the saddest things. So I want to really quickly give you a tiny little lesson in attachment theory. So um and again this is just boiling it down to simple jargon for everybody. So attachment theory is the theory that looks at how and why we attached to people across the life's man and it's a long scale. Some people have a lot of anxiety and fear and preoccupation with their partners. They have easy abandonment issues. They're counting the minutes between the text why didn't he call? What's happening? And there's a lot of anxiety. Other people feel easily smothered and they're even the person just calls once and they're like, oh, this girl calls all the time. What's happening? And I don't mean to put gender on it, because there can be anxiously attaching guys um And so what happens is the longest relationships that are sometimes the most painful but often last the longest. Is the person who have the anxious attachment style who meets the avoidant person. And what happens is we're trying to work out our earlier It's all developed in early life, in the first twelve months of life, when our brain triples in size, and we make assumptions about whether the world can be trusted, whether mommy and daddy will be there when we cry, whether we will be picked up, whether we'll be left in a wet diaper, And so this is how we form a blueprint for love. That then we go out and cast, and we look, we cast and look for that perfect person who will play along. Oh, you'll be the daddy who promises to abandon me. You'll be the smothering mother. Okay, and it's on. I'm gonna fix it this time. So interesting enough, when people have an anxious attachment style, they're most often sexually attracted to the avoidant people. So it's a chase that always goes on with both unfulfilled needs. I believe that in a corner and shaking, crying, so again, happiness and duration are not necessarily linked. In other words, there are people in unhappy relationships who will stay together forever because that chase never ends and they're always feeling they're in love with longing, they're not in love with love. And in my in my personal opinion, just in the last year and a half with therapy of Jane and I've done and we've done personally as individuals and growing together is I know it's cliche to say communication is key, but I don't think a lot of relationships out there understand really the depth of communication that they need to get to and be rigorously honest with your partner and get to a place where you feel safe with that. And that's where Janna and I start are starting to get where we can be rigorously honest with fears or feelings and what we have going on where now we're not really as reactive to that as the partner, where we get scared or triggered from those feelings. Um and that those feelings have nothing to do with gender. They're human. You can be all man and fully masculine and in fact very responsible and in charge and control by expressing your feelings. That's one of the most masculine things out there. And the best person you want to be regulously honest with is yourself, right, and then I'm self aware and I think your friends just they're they're just again it maybe haven't communicated over the years, and you just grow so apart that you're just like, I don't like the person up next to you know, and that I'm sure that happens a lot of times in marriages because you're not growing together and they're not maybe not at their state of readiness, you're at their state of readiness, and they're not anxious person. That stating the avoidance person. These are These are the wonderful couples to get into couples therapy because you're basically teaching the anxious person to contain themselves a little bit and hang on, and you're also teaching the other one to come out of his or her shell and express their feelings. So that could take some time. Yeah, oh it's not a quick I'm an avoidant. Jana's gets anxious and through the work that we've done, we've started to meet in the middle, to understand that her love will not smother you and engulf you, will not kill you in any way, that it's just there. Just allow it to be there. And in the other hand, he's not going anywhere and needing to know that he's checking in a certain number of times a day or showing his love for you. Here's my feeling. And I don't know anything about you in your relationship, but I will say it's common that the anxious person is always looking for the other person to express love. The gifts that you tell me, I'm pretty all this stuff. When we learn to love ourselves deeply, that's the only time we can really love somebody else and we are so fulfilled with our own self confidence and self love. Oh and that's when we become really sexy. By the way, Okay, can we read an email for Corey? One of our listeners wants um some Michael, and your name isn't there too? Okay? Is it from Corey? We struggle with intimacy issues. My husband and I tend to struggle with intimacy issues. I want to have sex way more often than he does, and I can tell it bothers him because the drive is not always there. It's a struggle to always feel like I'm nagging for sex to happen. If Michael is in the studio, can he shed light to a male's perspective on this and what I could do to help the situation? Janna, how do you deal with feeling that the one who instigates more often? If that's the case, because it is with me, which it is, I understand the biggest thing here is communicating about it, and we have, but it hasn't changed the situation. I've suggested therapy, but he doesn't want to go. He doesn't think we're at that point you want okay. So this is why whenever I talk about relationships, I talk about biology, sociology, and psychology. So biologically, sometimes people just have different levels of sex drives they have and usually when they see a sex therapist it's because of a high desire low desire dynamic, and there are exercises and work that you can do to get into something that works for both. Now, so sociology, what does your social group think is a normal amount of sex? Where what messages are you picking up from your culture about sex? Is sex supposed to mean that you're in love and if you're not having sex, he doesn't love you enough. Psychology, do we have an anxious attachment person because the way that our attachment style plays out is through our sexuality. Is she anxious and is he avoidant? And the more she's needed, the more his body shuts down? Right, So that's why all of these things needs to be teased out separately and discussed. Well, it sounds like I mean, she says she has talked about it. It It seems like they talked about it good way. She suggested therapy, but it isn't He doesn't want to go even think he's at that point. So what does she do when she's already tried to communicate? Here's the good news. Even an individual can go to couples therapy and change the relationship because relationships and families are a system, and if you change one cog in the system, the system can change. But what else, I mean, what else can she do besides having a different conversation. She's already had the conversation though, like being like, hey, this is The therapist will help her come to a deeper realization about what her needs are connected to her. The therapist will help her understand whether her sexual needs are related to her psychology and her neediness, or whether it's a sex drive issue. The psychologists will help her find a better way to communicate her needs or maybe given ultimatum, um there will be if she can change her reaction to him through getting to know herself better, and that can change the relationship. Again, you don't go into therapy saying I'm going to get him to do this. I'm gonna get her to do this. You go into therapy saying I'm gonna know me more so I can react differently to the world. You know. That's that is a great point. I hope people really heard that, because again, just we can only go back on what Jana and I have experienced personally and when we started therapy. Um, just since everything happened a year and a half ago. I feel like at the beginning of us going to individual couples therapy, it was about how can I you know, more about talking about our partner and how can we get them to do what we want or not do what we don't want? Started? Yeah, that if that's how it feels like it started, at least for me, and then then finally gets into you graduate into the place of you're not going to talk about your partner, you want to talk about yourself and your reaction to your The changes actually happened, and that's what I've seen personally. I think Jane can attested that too. And they may not happen in the way you envisioned, but because you're a different, different person in the dynamic, your needs may change. So what do you think of her perspective? Like what would you say? They're married? Yeah, they're married. She wants to have sex more than he does. Um, you know, how does you know? How does can you shed light to a male's perspective on this? Like what can I do to help the situation? Like, so what could she do to like to say if they've been married? Doesn't say if they're ma, it's just my husband and I m for me as an avoidant and one with intimacy issues, I don't know. In that title programming your Brain, that's how I started. That is how I started acknowledge acknowledge that because I know the work that I need to do and the work that I am doing. So that's why I acknowledge that, because that is someone who I still am in certain scenarios and I'm working not to be um, but for me, a lot of it comes with performance anxiety because I am an avoidant and knowing that maybe his spouse is someone who's anxious, and maybe your love language is physical touch, where any time that she may want to start to get physical, he might automatically think, Okay, I have to have sex, Like that's the verb, that's the verb. Is that my go in his head is I have to do this. Well, that's not what you want. You don't want to say I have to do this. You want to be like, oh, yeah, I want to do this. I just know that from experience where I've had feelings in my head where I've said I have to do this right now, and maybe you just start off a little bit. And these are things that you know, Jen and I have done at times where it's hey, let's just let's just kiss, let's just can you just hold me, hold me for a little bit and warm him up, where it's not like all or nothing, where it's you're away from him because you know he doesn't want anything, but just bring it up to him like, hey, will you just hold me for a little bit, No expectations, no pressure to perform. No, you know, we have to have sex, no have to anything. In fact, what you're describing is something I talked about on my CAFI show this week, which our sense ate Focus exercises. And the first thing a sex therapist does with a couple that walks in with a high high dynamic or high desire low desire dynamic is they say no sex for six weeks, so to take all the pressure off. Because what ends up happening is that one couple, one person says, well, if you stop nagging me and wait until I come to you, and the other one goes okay, So they grit their teeth and everybody's walking on eggshells and nothing's happening. So instead the doctor steps in and says, I prescribe that you do not have any sex at all for six weeks. However, you have to do a week of just handholding, you have to do a week of just foot massages, you have to do a week of back missile and you are not allowed to touch the genitals. You are not allowed to reach orgasm until six weeks. And so what that does is takes the sensation out of the genitals. Because another problem that happens with long terminogamy is that everybody knows each other's body so well. They know they're highlight reel. They go right to their hits and um. Therefore there's no novelty, there's no variety, and sex is exciting when it has variety in it. The other thing they do, especially when there's kids in the houses, they schedule their sex around childcare and working and everything else. So it's a predictable time, it's a predictable place. It's a predictable position. That will kill a sex life faster than anything. So having a sex therapist step in and go, you know what, let's take sex off the table for six weeks and go back into the arow. So you felt on your fingertips on your first date, what do you do for the like? I mean, I know I felt this at times where it's it just feels like such rejection and like you don't feel pretty enough. You don't, so it's like, how do you how do you not take that on? Not to make them think that that's like I'm a big believer in reframing, and so what I would tell myself is, wow, this guy must be pretty confident if he turned down this tent. If you turned down this tent and I'm like, I'm so ugly, baby in my belly, and yeah, it's beautiful. Don't guys find pregnant women sexy? There's something sexy about little but there are Yeah, you go ahead and sorry, yeah no. I was just telling Janna that, you know, I think last week of how beautiful I think she looks now it' sexually, especially with how um this and I was on the first pregnancy, with the issues that were going on. Just now I'm being able to see it through different lands where I'm like, God, you are beautiful, like just glowing, and I I finally see that like through my own eyes because before they are clouded. And the other thing I want to say, we always think that the Horror Madonna syndrome is in a man's head only, meaning that some men aren't sexually correct attracted to women when they're pregnant or mothers are nursing or whatever. Um, they have this concept in their head that they're two women and only one is effable, right, and so, but it can happen in um in a woman's head as well. So it's really hard when you're nursing and you're pregnant to turn all those mommy hormones off and go back into your vixen. There are guys though, too. I mean, I have a girlfriend that's pregnant and she's having a hard time because her her husband is you know, he's not into it, not into the pregnant really hard. So yeah, I mean it's definitely hard. But but also like once she communicated with him, it wasn't just about her. It's about how he's also feeling like he feels a lot of shape, so he doesn't feel sexy. So there's like different layers with so much stuff. But yeah, it's it's just it's just I mean, Corey Hope, you know. I feel like those are some great tips from Michael and Wendy. Um. But Wendy, thank you so much for coming on the show. Where can our listeners find You can find me anytime on the Heart Radio app just keyword Dr Wendy and you can listen to me every Sunday and Wednesday live on k IF. I am six forty. You are You're not only beautiful, but you're beautiful insight too. I'm just excited to watch this young family grow and you're a young family. Yes, she might need your number, Thank you, Wendy. Okay, So, Sarah, you know that I'm like the biggest baby being home alone. Like I seriously text you all the time all the time, being like, Hey, um, Mike's gonna be out tom this weekend, so will you come over and hang out with me? But now that I have a d T, I don't text you anymore. Now you don't have to drive end of the way to my house to stay at my place with me. Because I'm a total baby. But I love a d T because I honestly feel so safe. I feel safe knowing that me and my daughter can rest easy um when we're you know, obviously I I I feel really safe when Mike's there. But it's just it's so nice to just have that extra um security blanket for me to know that I can sleep and feel um secure. So for a limited time, a d T s lowest rate starting at just a month for the most trusted name and home security. That's just a dollar a day. And honestly, I mean, don't you want to feel safe? Yes? Yes, So you need to sign up right now. So you need to go to a d T dot com slash podcast or just a dt dot com to take advantage of a d t s lowest rate. That's ad T dot com slash podcasts. I mean, I want to feel safe and I want you guys to feel safe. So do it quick. Legal disclaimer them with thirty six month monitoring contract, early termination in installation. Fees apply. Exclude taxes and fees applies to traditional services only certain markets included. Licenses available at dot com. Um so, I am so stoked. Put your hands on sir, um the biz you can cans. Yeah, we have a numerologist here, like just walked in the studio. He's so cool, like you just like you look just so cool. I try the guys. This is Remington Donna. Okay, So for those speaking for my husband and to me too, I'm just my girlfriend. Sarah is like all about this, like she knows the number, like she's she's like a crazy into this kind of stuff. So we'll we'll get to you, but let's start with here here. Well, let's get to my husband, because I know you have no idea what a numerologist is, right, No, I have an idea of everything else. I feel like this has been a theme, like let's test Mike skepticism every episode. Mediums and sidekicks and astrologers now numerologists. It's like, all right, let's do it great. I literally got interviewed recently and I said, oh, I usually don't try to do anything for skeptics. I don't need to prove myself. But it's not like, you know, I just want to say a couple of things. It's kind of like, here's a here's a message, here's a message of your soul, and you can take it in a lot of different directions. And it's not so much just the numbers that kind of triggers an intuitive psychological response that starts to open up a process. And it's so it's it's similar to say astrology. You know, I use your birthday. It's really simple. Somebody else has your exact same birthday, but it's still not the same year. But yeah, um that everybody gave me their real year. But it does it creates a process. I mean, I have to be honest, I'm amazed every time. And I this is what I literally do for a living, and I consult with people every day and I'm booked solid and um every time it opens something up and I'm still like a little kid, and I still love how did you get into this? Like what is it? Was it? Just like was it? Was? There? A number always in your head and you're like, why is this coming to me? Or well I have so I grew up total hippie parents on like a yoga community. Um so which part of it is actually in Virginia now and I think that's where you're born, so um but uh so being in that kind of environment, I definitely see it more through kind of a spiritual perspective. What is the evolution of your soul? How can you use this to increase and expand and have a better life. So that spiritual experience is really this this expansion and this betterment of you, and somehow it comes through these numbers. So I've just always had an interest in these deeper studies, but it's definitely from a kind of more devotional, kind of loving perspective, and then you had to actually study like what these numbers mean is that, Yeah, I have a background in years and something called mystical Kabbalah and that ties in a lot of number. So I'm actually an astrologer, numerologist. I read hetero and then I'll have when I do it, when I do a session with someone, I combine all of that. But for some reason, I'm more known numerology. It has a ring to it. But um, I'm not. It's like crazy number obsessed, like I'm not tracking, Like oh my god, that license plates at seven four two, and I saw that in my receipt. But I will notice it like I hadn't experience. I know, this was like a year ago. I kept seeing the number seventeen, like I had a receipt. It was like seventy one seventeen, and something else was seventeen seventy one. I parked behind a license places like seventeen seventeen. I went and got a taco and my number was seventeen. And I told my girlfriend and she was in Italy. She was by a casino and yes, and I kept Gina and I kept saying, I'm c seventeen everywhere, And so she went to a room, are you? So she went to a roue what what roulette wheel? And I'm not a gambler, and she put everything on seventeen and on how many times have you won the lottery? I've oh, yeah, then the lottery is for seventeen million dollars once. I'm like that right after all the seventeen I played totally lost, So I don't know if it was. You gotta have some perspective. People get totally their heads in the clouds. I get emails and messages daily that are like, okay, like a whole list of forty numbers that they see, like what does it mean. I'm like, it means you should probably start paying attention to the road, you know. I was like in a store once and this guy runs out. He's like, oh my god, your bill it was nineteen dollars and forty three cents. Wasn't mean Like around l A, I'm kind of known for it, And I was like it just it means I spent way too much money for like a bottle of water and a gluten free donut in Los Angeles. So I definitely have some perspective. But what it does, it's very um. It has a deep message of of your soul. So I and it's literally just these few I have a little notebook here, there's okay, you want to go start with Mike and I okay, so I'm gonna start with you. So Mike, so I have these numbers there's these different placements sort of like an astrology chart, like you have a sun sign, a moon sign, like I don't know, someone's a sagittarius or scorpio. Um. So this you have these different placements. And so Mike is a soul of eight and you can take so eight on its surface is an energy. It's actually somebody who's very much a healer. And what eight is is a symbol of is the sort of life force of the universe. And so where do you take it from there? So in a really good note, this says, Okay, Mike has a soul that's very enthusiastic, it's high energy, and it's it really loves to be of service. And even your numerology together, so um, you have a you have a gift of eight. So you guys together actually create a very uplifting, very enthusiastic, very healing energy. Does that mean you have to go to med school or study like Raiky or become like a clear light healer. No, but it means that you have an energy force and you have a lot of power and a lot of vitality, and there's excitement and there's enthusiasm, and it just wants to help others. Then we have a karma of two. So then we look at the things. What are the things to look at? You guys actually make a great relationship because there's actually a healthy code dependence. There can be a negative code dependence. I know that where it sounds is generally negative. But two is this very open you. You have a Jana has a two soul, Mike, you have a two karma. Karma is just the thing that we're born to work on, we're supposed to learn, we're supposed to master. And that is very man it's very loving. It's almost like a big hug. But then it's negative tendency is going to say, well, I love I really want to belong. So you guys have a collective energy that loves connection, it loves family, it loves community. The downside of that is, okay, I love fulfillment, but what am I fulfilling myself with? Where am I looking outside of myself to consume? So it can come through overeating, intoxication. Um, you know, being so caught up in a relationship or an outside issue to expand you and you lose track that what it really is is your very powerful open conduits. It's something much more sacred, So go for that. You have a gift though, of being very orderly. Six is very has a lot of follow through, a lot of consistency. It's a very diligent number unless you take the I'm a total slack around um well. Six is sort of like the orbit of the sun. So in a way that can get into a rut like six cannot make change. You can go through like an orderly flow. Six is the um It's like the cosmic harmony of the universe. That's something that you're talented at. Sometimes we don't know we have those gifts, to know that you actually have talents in creating order uplifting spaces. You're in the underfield that shows up and it's like, I don't know what it is. I love that guy who's just vibrant and awesome. But what you have to work on is what are you opening up to? Yeah, but part of you, part of Mike, actually likes to hide and that comes through ten and ten is this very extreme. Ten is the number of greatness of nobility. It is the number of a king of a queen has an energy of fame about it. It's radiance how noble and radiant are you? And how are you? How cool are you? Just staying in that kind of energy of that and how much do you um take any perceived failures in your life and really build on it. It's this extreme. It's like I deal with a lot of actors in Los Angeles, and people that have incredibly successful careers will have all these tens and then they think they're total failures because they haven't won an Oscar, but they've been on tons of shows they've done really well. So you know, Mike would be really good to just be like, look at whatever you think is a failure and realize that ten is always a number of success and greatness. This is a huge energy field, like you're a powerhouse, but on a really deep soul level, Mike's very much a healer, and it's somebody who wants to show up and make everything better for everybody. And it's You're like you elevate people, you encourage people, and and on a keynote is really how how do you show up to a situation not only do you make it better? Only only do I sort of out charm this sort of someone's having a bad day, Mike, you can just show up be yourself, but you make people feel safe and that's a really big talent and gift and people will actually see you more as a teacher to start to think what can you do that just so even if it's like charity work, but in some way the things that are going to be the healthiest for Mike or like really deep community, family connections, love both of you like love love and uh, but Mike, you're you're really a teacher who who elevates everything and and makes it better and and a healer and and again take that on that sort of abstract these ideas you hide, there's a part of you that high that like stay great and you're gonna be good. I appreciate that. Um, but I love like the two because the dynamic that you guys with with Jenna, like your soul is too. It means you're very open. It's very how open Sometimes lessons they're like and the soul is like, here's your you, But how open are you? You know? Sometimes it takes discernment what am I again? Like I said, one of my fulfilling But you guys together have this match that just the deeper you go, the better it is. And um, but you have a gift of a levin Well, the leven is called sound. So literally your talents have to do with using voice with sound, playing music, talking on the radio. So but what what it is too is it's it's an expansion of your kind of frequency, is the way I put it. So everything about you has a natural tendency. You have gifts to head it out to the world. So what like the things that you can really that's really good for even like investing money for example, it's the kind of energy that says, Okay, I'm gonna do a little work in the moment, I'm gonna hand it off, I'm gonna let something else, I'm gonna let the universe in some level of another cultivate it and grow it. Do you have like a product line, because that is really good for product line for getting it right now you Well, that's your gift. You have to do it. You have to learn to be more of a boss. You know you have you literally have to own it. These are some of the biggest things that are going to make a difference in your life. Is going to say okay, it's okay for me to speak up for my needs and what I want and just sort of and it means doesn't mean you have to be a harsh B word means you can be really cool. So communication is going to be key for you, knowing where you set boundaries so things don't get to a point where you're just f and pissed and resentful and and keeping a bottled and I mean we all do that at some point. But for you too, is really learning to step into your real courage, your real authority and you have you literally some of the things I would say you were born to learn. It's kind of how to run a run a business, be a boss, be an authority, and use your leving gift that says the world is going to receive the things that you put out there. So something like, I mean this is great like doing a radio show, being a musician. Eleven has an energy, you know, acting it needs to be seen. But like think of yourself as an entrepreneur, run I would say, start, get a product line going, and it can be really successful as long as you know how to like just hone it in. You also have a path of eight. You both have this path of that enthusiastic kind of healer energy and at the end of the day, it's really about how are we of service to others? How do we help others? Yes by being kind of a natural teacher and say I'm gonna show up and make it better and make you feel safe for him and make you feel good about your life, like you would be a great like. Um you know those like and why am I totally going blank on those like speakers? A motivational speaker kind of energy. I'm not saying you have to go do that, but know that that's an energy that you bring where people feel safe and good. But uh, Janet, you gotta be a boss. You gotta be cool with it. You gotta speak up. I know you speak probably all day for a living, but it's really no. Hey, it's okay for me to go for what I want. I'm not being selfish, and I can create order and structure. And you have to learn where Mike is a natural teacher, people actually see you as a teacher and as a guide and somebody who makes it better. You have to step into that role and that comes from the number five. Um. Five is also physical. So you know, pro athlete is going to be the best easiest extreme Like whoa actual pro athlete here? But it's really the number of a teacher. You have to learn about that just knowing them. Like even when I come talk, Mike is always like, okay, let's talk about like with my life problems totally, and you speak up for everyone, all your friends. She's like a writer or die. So then that makes sense, like now do it for yourself? Yeah, oh yes, but you have a really the two souls. You have a very and you have it what's called the projection, so you may be heard from that astrologer like you have rising signs, which is sort of that's the idea of how you come off. You have a projection. This is Jannah has a projection of a number called four, which is all love. Everyone is going to see you as just holding this really loving space, so make the most of it. It's very not very accepting, very compassionate. What do I have to be aware of? Well, it's the um for you. It's viewing the world as working in your favor and that outside influences are in a threat and that things aren't working against you. And some level does that make sense? Like that comes from your karma of three where you might shut down. Uh, Mike's kind of even too open, like to like possibilities. But both of you have this thing, so look at like how open I am I to possibilities and expansion And where do I have the discernment to say no, that's not going to serve a higher purpose for me. But you're both our teacher. You have to learn Jan has to learn to be a little more of a teacher. But you're here to really as jeesy as it sounds, you're really here to uplift and help others shift the world and collectively your ten energy, you guys together have a soul of ten, experience of ten. You gotta stay shut. You guys help each other stay completely radiant at all times. It's like the sun. The sun is a symbol of radiance because the sun is always shiny and the sun is always giving. That's that energy and a lot of prosperity comes from that ten. But together, you guys have a path of seven and that's the number that says I want to make this better for everybody. I mean, you're like spot on with everything, with everything like we have. Sarah's over there doing a round of applause. Um, yeah, because we have We definitely are working on things to be able to publicly speaking, and Mike wants to go out there and take that rain, and you know, I'm working on the business and so it's just together, we're working on our brand to help people. And so that's that's huge. You need to like help Mike have the confidence to stay radiant all the time and really be comfortable in that and to say, hey, you're an awesome guy and you have so much to give and share. If I had emotional problems, I'd be going to Mike. I love that. So it's you know, it's true that because he's like he's just now really starting to like open up to the idea of being able to help others with through his experiences because he has been through a lot. So I think it's and this is now the third time you've heard this just in this setting, so I know the only ones that are the only ones that carried away are honestly the astrologist and now Remington because the other stuff, I just feel like it's two subjective mediums and it's like nothing against that wherever for whatever people want to believe is fine, but for me, I feel like this is a little bit more concrete where there's not a lot of manipulation, at least in my skeptic mind. There's not a lot of manipulation with numbers and in stars and maligning. I think it is what it is, um, So I mean, yeah, I just have a lot of shame behind things still that stopped me. And Jan is always there to cheer me on and encourage me. So that makes sense. That's a great way to put it. I try to keep it really simple and real. And when people call me a psychic, I kind of I'm like, it's not. It just opens up in intuitive process, just if you were a psychologist or it's it's more like being an artist. I'm more fascinated that somebody like you write a song, it comes through, it comes out, and you manifest that you turn into reality. And these are just little things that say, hey, here's some clues, here's some tendencies, and here's a formula whatever you're doing in your life. If you guys like owned a coffee stand, you could still use You're just like, hey, we're giving coffee. That is like uplifts everybody. Um. And just so you know too, though, there's a lot of good uh, A lot of those eights and that enthusiasm, the energy and that level. That's all good for financial expansion too. So yeah, so be cool with that chas email six months but um, don't uh make sure, Mike, like just stay stay in that greatness and don't it Ten wants to doubt itself. Ten, this is the thing for you to work on. Ten is somebody who has has greatness and success and love and his lying in bed thinking I'm kind of a miserable failure at life. And I'm not saying you go that extreme. I say, that's kind of a funny way. That's gonna be the super extreme. It's like that, Um I always describe it was that movie Talladega Nights. Do you guys see that where the Will Ferrell's character's dad is always like, boy, if you ain't first your last, that's ten. If I didn't if I'm not first place, if I didn't win forty super Bowls, if I didn't you know, get an oscar, if I didn't always be at what I think the top of my game is, then I'm I'm completely failed and I don't want to show myself to the world. And you know what, It's okay. You have to show yourself to the world because you're here to heal it and help it and make everything feel better. And we need a world that people are allowing people to feel safe it is and that is literally one of the hardest things for me to do because I do have that mentality, and I don't feel like anything I've accomplished is good enough and that there I just always feel like no matter even though if I look back, I know I tried as hard as I could or did everything I possibly could that was within my power, and things still didn't happen my the way I wanted them to. I still feel like I could have done more. Like I'm never satisfied with what I do, which is very hard to live with at times. So Jane is always there to encourage me to. I mean, I totally understand. You're the person that who's always encouraging everybody else and it takes a little practice to put it towards yourself, you know, Jane, just you give all love, like you know how to make connections now and like, uh, you know an emotional human interaction way that's really deep, it's very sincere, but even on a a practical real world way, like you know how to like let's say, Okay, I want to expand and I wanna I don't know, it might be a dumb example, but I want to get this person on the show that to energy. It's just like a just hug it all in, everything that you want, just kind of love it all in and give it back out to the world. There's no way you can't do awesomely well with these numbers. And you guys together have a relationship that encouraged so much healing, greatness and emotional support, and that's what we're trying to do on the show. Actually, So that's amazing. Um, I have to love it. You have to go so I love you and have a field day with this one. I'm sweating. Okay, I want to hear what you have to say about Sarah, but real quick, I want to tell you guys about homest candles. I'm obsessed with these because literally, like I have a Michigan candle. No. I love these like I love you on the Texas one. It's like a little piece of right though. It's such a great idea because I mean, honestly, it's smells like, remind you of something, I know, what are I smell? Copper tone? I feel like, oh my god, it's a summer. And that's how these candles are. They remind you of you know, depending on which I got Northern California, so I can be reminded of home. You have Michigan, Michigan Tennessee, which I'm just obsessed with. So they provide warm, glowing reminders of the special times people in places of your life. They even have a gender reveal one too, which is so cute, Like, yeah, it's like, come on, stylishly personalized your home office with the conversation starter that smells great and puts you in a good mood whenever you smell it or see it burning in your shop. I mean, honestly, for me, it always makes me so happy because I missed Nashville every single day. So when I like my Nashville candle with Tennessee and I'm like that little moment. Well, and it's so cool when someone comes to your house too. You know, when someone goes in your bathroom and then they smell that smell, so it's like going to bath that's a gift. They're an amazing gift. But it's also great to buy for your own house so that when people come over They're like it exactly and it's a great value to it's so I think that's a fantastic So go to homesick dot com to find every single one of the fifty United States candles, plus dozens of classic U S cities in popular countries. They will ship directly to you and your friends or family in just a few days. So right now, my listeners can get free shipping plus ten dollars off when you buy two or more candles. Just visit homesick dot com, use my co Janna that's homesick dot com and use my co Janna homesick no longer. Um okay, so real fast, you got some time for my girl over here, because she's like she needs as much help as possible. What's funny, all three of you have all of this energy and paths of eight eight is this is very It's it's it's the life force. It's the life of the party. Okay, but it's the life of the party that shows up. Sure you can take that into like a crazy, wild, fun, decadent way and call me later, but um, what I mean, that's that same healing energy. So it's like know that you know Sarah know that you show up and and you bring that enthusiasm. But you have to look at two. For you, how far do you push yourself where you go to an extreme and then you crash and burn, then crash and burn, then crash and burn. So I'd say take some sort of adrenal vitamin supplement. But um, you also have the same thing about learning. If the more you speak up for yourself, the more you use your voice. Um, you actually have an eleven soul and that's the soul so and um, Jen actually want to get. Your gift is an eleven Levin is the number that literally can do anything. It's the number of anything. And you'll often meet people with eleven and they're like, well, I have a consulting company and then I like to do weaving on the side, and then I do and then I do craft shows. It you know you? For example, Jen, I know you you sing, your an actor and a radio show host. Um, I don't know you personally. Uh well, I don't actually just met everybody, but I could like google stuff. I have that gift in my numbers googling. But um, Sarah, you haven't eleven soul. That again, you have to realize that you're who you are is trying to get out to the world more and don't limit yourself to think, oh I have to do one like sort of one dimensional thing career wise, like, oh, this is it? So so why don't you embrace the fact that you have talents to do everything? I mean both of you. Um, but you need to know that and to know that whatever thinking tells you, Oh, I'm only supposed to do one thing in life, forget about that. What about relationship though? Geez, well, very sensitive? That's so you have, Well, you have a gift of nine. Nine is the most sensitive, most sophisticated, most gentle number. It's highly intelligent, it's very intuitive, it's very psychic. But uh, it can be so sensitive that it just trips out and blows everything out of proportion. So let's take relationships, I'm telling you for you, like, where do you compromise yourself? Where do you accept just good enough and then get into a complacent rut and never cause change? Oh I can see it. Um, that's those are those are your lessons to learn. You have to learn to really stand up for the for quality. Eleven is the number that everything will kind of come to you and everything will work out, but then it can get lazy. And then so let's take your relationship. How many relationships have you been in where you're just like, you know what, it's sort of it's okay, it's not really good enough, and I nobody's listening, but uh, and you just sort of let it go on because you don't even want it. You're afraid to assert yourself and say, you know what, this doesn't serve a bigger purpose for me, and then you have ten experien and so it's also tells me sort of like Mike, what part of you says, I'm maybe not worthy enough to attract the quality relationship that I have. You need to find somebody. A lot of times with relationship work is getting a better understanding of yourself to know, hey, I should attract somebody of this sort of caliber that really aids in my existence, and then I will help that person. And eleven is a very great, very expansive, very big number. You can't puts around. Levin will just puts around and not figure it out because it's sort of like, especially even with options of dating, it's like you can go on like an app and you're just constantly swiping eleven is the number of all numbers, so all numbers are contained within eleven. I was described it's like watching Netflix, so let's look at that like dating. You can put it on next thing. You know, you've spent an hour just scrolling through a trillion options and then you're like there's nothing and it's like this sort of ce. So just make your mark, set your boundary. Know you're worth You're a freaking eight. Like that was fun, high energy, vital, enthusiastic person to be around. And you have to own your tent. You have to say every freaking day, I'm so radiant, I'm so beautiful, I'm a tent. Okay, just tell yourself you gotta wake up instead of like I'm just like a puts and I'll just go along with whatever seems good enough. I mean, right, where can my listeners find you? So well, Remington Donovan, I have a website which is my name, Remington Donovan dot com. But I love Instagram and I do a lot. I actually do a little thing where I pick a tarot card every day and I give a little lesson about it. I'll talk about the numbers and that. My Instagram, well it's the mystical arts, but it's Remington Donovan if you look that up. Those are probably the best ways. And then for private sessions, usually through my website, and you're booked out for like life for well, I'm going to be out of the country for a little bit. I'm actually teaching a lot in Spain right now. But once I get back, yeah, things are there's still be openings. You may have to wait a mind. All right. Well, you are awesome and I cannot thank you enough for bringing your numeralgy. I love it. You guys are great and own it you, guys. To one last note, you have a very just in the numbers. You have a very beautiful, very loving relationship. Just always work it out. There's so much love there and so much connection and there's so much healing and Sarah, you're freaking tent alright, just own it. Thanks guys. Okay, how are you doing? Girl? I mean we like, I feel totally set up, like this was planned. It wasn't planned. I swear it was not planned, but I mean, like, how was it for you? Like do you feel I mean not only are you attend that's what Remington said, but I mean the things that you know Dr Wendy Walsh said to you and just the conversation, how are you are you? Are you okay? I'm I'm good. But I think it's because I've never had like a I mean I talked to like you and people I've never had like a specialist get all up in my grill and she was up in it and you don't know, I mean, like I said, I know she said, like I got an ultimatum or and then break up and they get back together. But at the end of the day, like, am I really going to do anything? You're just gonna be happy, But you do need to set something though. That is and I what if you say, hey, this is what I want and I'd love to oh he knows what I want and say, well, when do you want it? I know whatever I need to get there. I just hope he doesn't want it to God, no kidding, I hope nobody I know who listen to um. But seriously, thank you for being a show. I swear I didn't set you up, even though I was. My girlfriend Katherine always saying I'm setting her up whatever mean she's on, But no, I swear to you this was not a setup. And I love you, I love you. And um, just a huge thank you to Remington Donovan, our numerologist and then Dr Wendy Walsh for just being fantastic guests on our show. UM, and thank you Sarah. Hopefully you'll come back. I can't wait. This was my opener to come to Vegas. Until next time, We're wine down later

Whine Down with Jana Kramer

At the end of a long day, nothing is better than winding down and decompressing with a good friend,  
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