Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. Okay, so I am just really excited about today's show because we have Miles ad Cox coming on the show and he is the co founder of on Site Workshops, which is where I went from my retreat intensive four and a half days, six individual hours a day with a therapist in a room and no phone. We missed you. I missed you, guys. It was very Although it's like a day one captain's log. Dear Janna, this is what I wanted to share with you today, but I didn't get a chance to letters to camp. But it was an amazing experience. And there's I just I really want him to come on to um talk about that special place that it is and what people can expect to go there, and um, yeah, it's just a it's a it's a beautiful place. And I feel like do I say this? I just I mean, I could go there all the time. It's so great. But I'm excited for Chicago. I'm ready, guys. It's been hard to not be with you. I feel like we need to one every day. Well actually I kind of needed like I didn't need a break. Yeah, and he added detox. I needed a wine. I haven't had a much wine in a long time. I drink a lot. It's like sweating on Tuesday. And I was like, I'm pretty sure that. I'm pretty sure that's Gabernet. I think I need to take a deep breath. Oh god, those shows were so much fun. But we are going to add new dates. I think we're we're looking at New York, We're looking at Cali, We're looking at those girls are already they are like all about my ig, like when you come into Michigan, but I might need a Michigan sweatshirt at duh. It's a homecoming Michigan. I wasn't going to do whatever. You are not fine, It's fine, we are. She doesn't want to tell you, so she's more Michigan than people that don't know how. I don't play every time. I learned I was drunk in college. I just want everyone to know that. And I don't remember the rule. We'll be drinking wine down, so we'll teach you then and I'll forget again. Okay, speaking of patterns, Miles, I've got let's get him on in. Well, thank you. I know that you are jet lagged from from the from the wedding in the troup, which, by the way, I feel like a lot of planes right now. Ever, feel like everyone gets delayed every like right now, it's like so bad. So I don't know what's going on, but definitely you want your patients test to go fly right. I've heard that people are saying that if you have like an actual speaking engagement, or if it's like for business, that you should book at least two flights, two separate airlines, because that's the chances of one getting canceled. Is so in your favor right now that to have a backup plan, that's not a bad idea noted for next time when you're not at Britney Spears's wedding. Um okay, so Miles and I go way back. I met Miles Scott how many years ago? Fifteen years ago, even more? Yeah, probably even more than that. I believe it was at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital. Good memory, thank you. Um yeah, I remember meeting you there and then um some Miles in which we've already talked about. But he I'll let you go into where you started because I'm I would mess it up. But just give the background because we're we obviously I talked to some about some about on site, and I'm gonna we're gonna ask you some questions around that and the other things. But can you just give a brief description of on site because that's kind of the focus of what we were talking about earlier in the show. Sure. Yeah, on site is something I'm really proud to get an opportunity to own and and and run and be part of an amazing team. I made a pivot back gosh, almost two decades ago. That's aging me. But I was in the entertainment space for a brief period working on the business side of sports, and kind of hit a patch in my own life where I needed some support and I got it. Thankfully, the right people came around me at the right time, and I just had a real lights coming on moment and new I wanted to shift gears and be a part of helping people evolve and and just become the best versions of whole I know they can be in their relationships and with themselves. And so that to me took me in the lane of psychology, and I did some more training and education and got into the space and have been in it now for quite some time and operated and run several programs, but the one I spend most of my time with and the one that I'm probably known for, is on site and on side as an emotional wellness retreat offering. We offer personal growth retreats, intensive self development work, um, you know, intensive therapy programs. And then I've also got some longer term options too, And we've got our main campus is just outside Nashville, about forty five minutes on a couple hundred acres a beautiful farm. And then we've got a second location we just added in San Diego County in southern California. So that's the very very quick version. But I'll be happy to get granular and tell you anything you want to know about it. Well, CHRISTI wants to know how we can get her husband there. I was like, so, we've got offered my husband and I got offered to go do a four day intensive there. But then COVID hit and so, and I'll be honest at the time when the offer came through, it was like, how do I leave my kids and unplugged for four days? Because I have like what some might classify as anxious attachment whatever when it comes to my children, So I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, and you too. I really didn't miss you guys. It's weird and we're together and then not together. But I thought four days is a long time, and I just it's so funny because I knew that I got the chance to talk to you today, and I started thinking about on Site again this morning, and I was like, I actually think four days feels like something I would do now because you, you and on Site are behind so many successful marriages on the country music side of like my world that I just can't imagine. I can't imagine what four days to actually just like think would be like at this point in my life. No, no, no no, please, please please you. First of all, I can I can relate, and I know what's behind the curtain. I'm a advocate of the work both is uh, you know, someone who delivers it, but also somebody who participates in it. I believe in it enough that I do at least one tune up a year for myself or my my marriage. And but every time, even though I know it's going to be beneficial and we've that that at four day window is really tried and true. Once people had an experience with us. Then we can get creative and curate shorter experiences like two days or three day or even one day or a half day. But for the first time, if you're coming in as a couple or as an individual, that we've really researched that amount of time and it it, you would think it it's gonna be monumentous to be able to step away from family obligations and things for four full days, but you'd be shocked at how fast it goes once you're there. But I want to humanize it and say every year I know it's going to be beneficial. I even get excited about it now. In some years, I've got stuff I really need to unpack, you know, I might be in a high stress season, and there's other years things are going quite well and I just want to do a tune up, just just for prevention sakes. But every time I stress and struggle about the time away, I think it's just human nature when we're in a rhythm and routine and suddenly it's going to be disrupted. Especially to do a digital clans like we do at our place, that definitely promotes some anxiety so you're not alone there and having some trepidation about coming. I will say too, there's something that um because I called Miles probably was probably two months ago, and I was just like I need to come now, like right now, like I'm in crisis mode. I can't shut my brain off, like I'm not good, and I just you know, we we talked through you know what I'm because I've obviously had been on set before two times before that, and and I remember talking to him too. And then when I saw you there because you you came with your family and there was um there was for some reason, I felt shame around it, going like how am I here again? And you definitely made me feel so much better when you said that you tune up to and things come up and I'm like, okay, so like because I almost felt I felt like a failure coming back. It's not a place you graduate from, right, That's what I loved. When you just said that to you, I was like, oh, tune up like it just made it so that makes it sound better versus like oh I have to go or yeah, like I thought I thought I fixed that twelve years ago when I went that one time, and then I thought I fixed it the next time, and I'm like, how am I here again? And like that's where it just feels like yeah, I don't know if it was like embarrassment or for a shame or like what it was. But but then you were like no, like there's the tune ups and the you know, you learning things and I'm like, okay, like that that made me feel so much better. So I just I want to thank you for that too, because I think it was hard to kind of walk back in that space again. That's really good to hear and you're not and I'm sure you know, but you're not alone there either. It's a I think I thought a lot about that, you know why people struggle and feel that if you come and invest in time with us that you're trying to fix something that's wrong with you, and it's it's you know, kind of counseling gets that wrap too, but it's actually not what's wrong with you at all. That you invest in becoming a better version of yourself no matter what season you're in, that's what's right with you. And it's not something I tell people all the time. It's not something you need, it's something you deserve. It's just humans. We don't look at our our mental wellness and our mind and our hearts the same way we do as our physical bodies. We know, improving our lives physically, it's not a linear process. It's not a check the box, start and stop. It's a maintenance. The same goes with with the mind, and it's it's a That's why I like calling an emotional fitness versus just this idea that we start here and stop here and skip through the meadow kombay and after we've done a little work, It's that's just the start of it. It's but the good news is over time, once you've got tools and you know the work, it gets a little lighter every time you're doing it, even if life throws you a pretty big curveball. That's so true on the fitness side, because I'm like, are we ever really like we might be in our best shape, but then you can fall back into certain patterns and it's like, yeah, I've never thought of it like those two together. Emotional fitness emotional fitness. You need to t m that pretty quick because I really like it. I've made the mistakes. I started talking about it probably twelve years ago, back when nobody cared always talking at the holiday in in Phoenix to six people, probably my friends at the time, but your way. But as as the speaking has really grown over the years outside of the last two years in the rooms got bigger and started speaking to large groups of people, I realized that was such a good frame and I actually wrote a definition for it and started working on a book for it, and never trademarked it. And and then since then two other books and a company came out and I was like, oh, I missed that one, but I still use it. You're the O G. Miles For everyone that's listening, we know well who knows I'm there. I think we're all just spiritual thiefs, but at least we still from the best. Somebody probably had it before I did. Sure. I think what's so special about onset too, and I'd love for you to speak to it is the experiential therapy. Because when I explained it to someone and I say, okay, um, you know, people d roll and in role as like my dad or in role as you know, my best friend, or they enrolled like for example, when I was there, I had I enrolled as queendom, so I got to step into like and every time to talk to my friends like the correct but like and it's like then I had to talk to myself how queendom would talk to me? And it's like there's something so special about experiential therapy that really just hits it, like right on the head, like because it's you know, I've done therapy for so long, but there's something about that experiential work to really like embody it. And I don't know, I don't know the methods were, like the terminology behind it, but like what do you think is so why do you think that therapy is so impactful versus other types of therapy? Mm? Hm, Well, what you're describing experienial therapy is is not It's certainly not the only model we do, but it is the one we're known for because we've been doing it a long time. I'm a big advocate and believer in experiential counseling therapy and even experiential education. When you're talking and you know what what is it, Well, it's a it's kind of an umbrella or a body of therapeutic modalities or age techniques that are action oriented versus just talking. Because so most of us that have either done counseling or we've seen it on tv U. You think about it as a verbal exchange between one person and another. If you most people see it on me. Do you see some my land on a couch and they're telling, you know, somebody something, that's that's what we most that's what we usually do, and that's well researched. That's kind of cognitive behavioral therapy or processing. It's really beneficial and it's effective. But for me, I did years of that and still felt really stuck until somebody got creative and showed me my story versus told me and reflected my story back to me. Because if you hear it in the context of like, yeah, we do role play and use drama on art, that would sound a little weird. Out of context, you're like, what, I don't want any part of that. But actually, for me, it moves, It moves faster, it feels safer, It hits the right part of my brain because our rational reasoning part, which is this pre final cortext if you think about the brain from the top down, is usually offline. When we're in strang us and we hold pain and trauma and our limbic and we just find experiential tools and therapy to access that limbic where we hold a lot of our pain, uh, you know, much more efficiently and faster. It's important that it's done safely because it's a powerful tool and you don't want to come in and and and uh, you know, open someone up and without the tools and skill to be able to slowly integrate. But it is um and if if I were to say something to you, all activates a third of your brain like I'm doing now. If I were to show it to you, it activates two thirds. And if I were to make it kinesthetic and put it into action, it activates all of it. You know. Uh. If you great trial attorneys UM that are trying to convince a jury, uh, you know, to to move their direction, They're not going to tell them what they want them to hear. They're going to show them. They're gonna bring props into the room because they know that if I can make this experience visual in kinesthetic, I'm more likely to sway someone's opinion my way. So those are just a couple of quick examples, and there's a lot of creative ways to do it, but we found it to be a really highly effective model to move really quickly and do a whole lot. I mean, some people hour by hour would compare our one week experience at Living Center program to like a year's worth of about patient therapy just because the pace it moves. Does that? Does that help? Jenna did that a little bit. Yeah, it's hard to describe to people that haven't been through it because they kind of go, that sounds a little weird. I'm like, no, no, but like it's the it's the most intense, amazing work that, like you said, I like, it's it's years of therapy in four days. I also think there's a level of safety that you guys provide at on site. Like I've had so many friends go and just recently, like one of my friends, Hayley Hubbard, just came back and she's been open about her visit there. That's why I'm sharing this. But you know, even when she was texting me the other day, she was just talking about She's like, you know, I went and I was going to be with these people and family, um, and she goes and then they weren't able to But it was just good because I just got to sit with myself and I'm like, yeah, but it's it feels so welcoming back because you guys have made it so safe. I think that then experiential therapy doesn't feel so weird or like, you know, I've been in some intensive like a two day intensive or a one day intensive with a group of country wives that you know, we're all processing and it's if I was to describe what we did they're together, would sound strange to people. But because you're in such a safe environment and you have this like code of conduct that you know it's confidential, I think knowing the level that you guys hold that piece makes people feel safe enough to do what you do there and allows them the feeling of like they got a year's worth in four days. And it's such an investment too, you know, like too, you're investing in yourself, which is I know people can be like, oh, well it's expensive, and you guys have things to help with that, don't you. Yeah, we kind of diversify or SoC economic Really it is expensive and good good really, because I curate therapeutic talent to death. I want the best of the best around the table and and we go to to any means to to get them. And so that they can support us with part of their time. I've just you know, counseling is like any other profession. There's a wide array of talent, and the the education and credentials are vital, but that doesn't dictate your skill level and your ability to be good at your work. There's other factors that go into it and attracting those people. And then also I really appreciate what you were sharing about the safety piece because I'm obsessed with that. I think psychological safety is everything because without it, we don't have trust. And you can do great therapy without trust, but I don't find it to be very sustainable and it doesn't support great outcomes. So if we lose our ability to be who we are and curate in an environment where people feel safe to be vulnerable, then we're missing the mark right out of the gate. And we have an advantage because we have a location where we can curate an experience, We can curate the hospitality, we can kind of insulate the environment enough where people can experience psychological safety. And that's my favorite thing of everything. We do. Take all the tools, the techniques, the change and we're not there to do anything to you. It's just mirroring back and experience with you of what it feels like to feel safe being in your skin and being fully who you are, and ideally you go back out and and show up that way a little bit more in your relationships, in your work, in your craft. And I always say to people when they're they're you know, it's that a little curated space that you know, the world is definitely not going to feel like this, you know, to you, but ideally you're going to begin to feel like this to the world. And and I've since learned that, you know, people would think that people that do what we do, kind of that personal growth, self development space, that it's kind of weird and you go there when you need it, But actually I think it's it's more culturally sound, connected and appropriate than the world we live in. So I've since looked at well, I don't think we're very weird. I think the world is kind of weird. I would actually agree with that. I would say to like a rama, that safety thing. One of the main things is you don't say your last name and you don't say what you do. And that was a piece too, where you know, it's it's nice. They might maybe recognize you, um, but again, you you have such a safe place. I mean, and something did happen when I was there the last time. I was eating lunch and I didn't know that this person knew me, but he said my name first and last name, and one of the supervisors heard it, who has was was one of my supervisors from ten plus years ago, and she came over to me and but in that moment, I was like, I felt like I had to put on a face again. I was like, for three days, I've been just me and people liked just me. And then all of a sudden, the guy goes Janet Kramer and I was like and like my my whole and I was just like, oh god, and I felt so exposed because I'm like, we I've been like so like and it was just and then Lin Lindn came over to me and was like, and I just started bawling because I just like, now I feel like I have to like put on this Jannah Cramer face and like and and it was just and the person end up having a background yeah, or like He's gonna go and tell X, Y and Z that I just did this thing in front of the group because you become like this like almost like this CULTI family where you just like you love on everybody and it just becomes so such a beautiful and you you're you know, lifting people up and encouraging them and and then it's like, God, is he going to go back and say that I was like bawling about this or you know, the person and you guys ended up making the person leave because there was a few other things that happened, but like, and I appreciated that, like the keeping that protection because it is so important to people at on site, so well, for a minute, it took your safety away, like you didn't feel safe. Well, then I felt like I had to go do what I always do, put a smile on and put a face on and then put my act on, and like that was not what I wanted to do. Um, go ahead, I just say I appreciate you speaking into that. It's you know, we work a lot with creatives and it's particularly the community that I know some of you work in music, film, television, sports. It's kind of it's a it's a division that we just doubled down on because we just brought Debbie Carroll over to launch a new division. Around it, which if you don't know her, you should get to know where. She ran the music Cares for the last twenty four years and just a pioneer at the intersection of mental health and music. I'm so excited to have her on board. And she's been a friend in a colleague forever. But we're getting ready to do more in that space. But you bring up an important port which is important point, which is, uh, there's that uh jetlag brain, which is it's it's one of the hardest things that we do is separate ourselves from this identity that we create and we lose. In other words, Uh, there's a lot of great human doings that come to our programming. They do great things, and we try to say, okay, well we get that, we want you to be a human being for a week and and I struggle with a too. We all do because we I think in the first uh thirty seconds of every new conversation we have with a new person, nine of the time we will ask what the other person does. So we quickly sized people up based on what they do. So that was important to us to say, let's just remove that. Let's equal the plan field and now for people who don't have a public profession, it's amazing. And even those that do that don't have incidents like yours, it's amazing that they just get to be a human for a week and not known by what they do, but better known by who they are. But in regards to people who do things publicly, it is a challenge because we do what we do and we hold a very strict guideline and so I'm glad you brought that put point up. We let people know right up front that it doesn't matter what someone does when they're here. If you recognize them, why what they do, then we ask you not to engage them with that, and if you do, we would see that as a guideline violation because again it creates a safety issue. But we also know that humans are humans and we can say that we can do that and sometimes people are gonna approach anyway. It's pretty rare. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, we try to take action pretty quick. But the good news about on site is we've really been pushing against the stigma for a long time, especially against the entertainment community. And thankfully, and I credit honestly um folks like you know, you, Jenna and others who have been outspoken vulnerable advocates for doing your own work, and you've said on site it's a good place to do it, because now it's become a little bit more of a hip, trendy, cool thing to do. It's not like, oh my gosh, I gotta go to onsite. It's like when do I get to go to on site in the music community, which has been a real advantage because it creates a safety where people come and they're not really worried about being there. They just want to know that what they do there stay safe and contained, and we've got a lot of measures in place to make sure that's the case. And I will say to the investment in yourself is just everything. And I told I wish I could gift it to every single person that I know. And I came back and obviously, you know, Catherine, you're going through what you're going through, and I said to you, I was like, just tell me when you want to go, because I want, like, I want all of you guys to experience that. And I think you said you wanted to talk to Miles about that kind of hesitation right of of stepping into it. Yeah, I mean I'm kind of, you know, in the scheme of things, kind of new word of therapy, you know. I mean I obviously just started with my newest therapist. Gosh, I don't know, six eight months something like that. But I've been in therapy before. But I am more the hesitant, you know, therapy seeker if you will. You wouldn't classify her as right out of the game. I love to be very vulnerable at love to talk about a lot um but I believe it or not UM, but I'm actually going through a divorce. But when we were in UM couples therapy the first time, it was it was kind of that like and I put this on myself to kind of like, let's go to therapy to fix you kind of think, and you mean your partner, fix your partner, fix you partner. I have the obvious you know, family history that was just obviously affecting me in ways, and so it was kind of like, let's go to therapy to fix Catherine kind of thing. And then I think, as you know, we went through it's like everybody has their stuff, you know, and then we ended up not being happy with our therapist and we were kind of in and out. But anyways, I am hesitant all that to say, Um, if I'm completely honest, the thought of a week of therapy, like being like a year of therapy is terrifying to me. I mean, just to be completely honest, like for someone that doesn't love to be vulnerable, doing it for that long is so overwhelming to even think about. And I love hearing you all talk about it because I think it seems amazing and I think it's something that I would love to want to do. I just am not necessarily there, but I think it sounds amazing. I'm not saying, you know, I'm sure it's great. It's just make sure that someone like me make sure that the view is great. You get to eat with both hands for four days, okay, let me get to you and the sonic You get to sleep sonic eye, Sonic eye. You do get to sleep like you get to sleep it or you get it early. I don't know, it's like eight o'clock. If you want to do the meditation, you can. You can keep a pretty pretty good, pretty aggressive schedule. However, it is because I want, we want to give you everything we got while you're there. However, people do report that after the first of the worth that they sleep better than they haven't a really, and we get way too much credit because they're like, what kind of mattresses and sheets do you have? It's no, it is the best. I'm telling you. That room that y'all put me in, Oh my gosh, I was like, I'm not getting like I wanted to know exactly what the sheets were too. Is so comfortable? Well they are? They are nice. I do care about the details, and I love hospitalities. I love caring a good experience, but they're not like what you would expect, like high, high thread count all that. I think it's more the context the work that you do. But you speaking to that hesitation, it's, um, I'm not uh knowing that you're somebody that is intrigued or would consider doing something with us at some point. Obviously I get excited about that because I'm such a believer in what we do. But um, I'm not um dissuade at all by hesitation. I think it's a totally appropriate response, especially in this context when you hear to adopt, you know, to people that are early adopters. In other words, we've we've both been clearly I worked there, but we've both been talking about it so enthusiastically and it's like, well, wait a minute, what is this And even hearing about the fire hose kind of experience, like, that's a lot that's that's totally normal. And I would say more than six of the people that come feel that way. They have a lot of hesitation and a little bit of anks. And I always encouraged by that because that's a great place for us to start if you didn't have any Now, there are instances in certain examples, like with what Jane I was talking about, where Okay, I've done this enough that I know where I'm coming. I feel relief to be there to get out of a stressful environment. That happens some too, but more than not, you're definitely in the majority where it's like, oh, I'm not so sure. One thing that would help, and we probably couldn't do it in a in a podcast, but to get on a call with me or or one of our one of our folks and just have a conversation that we can learn more about the hesitation. And I bet when we walk you through with more time that it could help give you more information to ensure that it's going to be a a time time well spending. It may not be. It's it may not be for everybody, it may not be right now. There should never be any pressure with it. But it's a cool experience and therapy is a part of it, but it's also it's a beautiful retreat space. And I put as much emphasis on the hospitality and as I do the therapy, and so like they said, if anything, if you need a mom retreat, it could be a good place to go to. Yeah, and I would say cats too, like I think, And I could be totally wrong, you could be totally you know, fine, whatever, But there's just something in me where I just feel like because I've received the gift of what on site has given me in that kind of because in the beginning and the very beginning, the first day, you it's like this, You're all in a room together and everyone's kind of looking around, everyone like, oh God, what the hell do we signed you know, sign up for? And then you go to one side of the room people that are excited to be there, that are and then there's the people that are like what did I do? There's not many people to the far right and I was the last one. I was all the way like why, like what did I do? Because it's like is it gonna work? Is it? You know? Am I going to leave here? And they just the whole thing is trust the process, and I just think for you and this is just me and you can call me out and say absolutely not, but like there's a piece that I think you're blocking, and I just want to see that wall go down. Oh sure, because I think when you get that, and that's what I think you would get it on site, you will have this break this amazing breakdown and breakthrough. Yeah, And I agree with you and be part of the hesitation. Well, and that's what I'm saying. That's like because I'm like, I'm almost like feel you like the wall like coming up, and I'm like, you need to have the breakdown to get through the breakthrough. Yeah. Yeah, No, I agree with you. The law firm and we break down every other day. Another another that was well said Jenna, But I think another thing to consider too, when Jenna actually referenced it when she was talking a moment ago, how it can feel so connected and tied and curated that you even you joke, but I think you mentioned like cultures type feel I mean very I'm very leary of that type stuff. If I hear like this real you know, everybody's talking about this thing that we have to do, then I honestly I had this little part of it, doesn't trust it. I'm like, wait a minute, what's going on? Is this tooke a bit in? And I want you to hear that. Um, I I have seen that happen a lot in in spiritual and emotional growth offerings. I mean, you've seen some of the documentaries that are super creepy right now about how people, uh, even low key, creating dependence on what they do. And we make a huge effort not to do that. That's not our model. We we don't. We don't believe that we have answers for you that you don't already have. We never want to create a dependence on our model or on us. We're fine for people to appreciate what we do, but believe, we believe people have within them what they need to change. We just are good partners to guide you through the process and then to let you go about your way, not to you know, come back. Um. All the time, there are people like me who choose to come back once a year, but that's more for me. It's not because of what I receive in our programming. So that could be part of it too. If you've ever been overpromised and under delivered by something that was really shiny, then there's probably a smart party that's sitting back being like, I'm not so sure. I don't know if that's the case for you or not, but I want to say that, Yeah, it's good to know for sure. Where are you kind of at with it? Are we a little emotional? No? I keep thinking you're crying every day. No, I just like I just I care. I just care so deeply for both of all my friends. And I'm like, I haven't called my brother. I was like, I know, we know our childhood stuff, but like you got to like go through this, Like, yeah, I think for me personally, I would like to kind of get through the divorce part of it. I mean, obviously that will come out and that will whatever, and kind of just when I'm ready to fully focus on myself and my past traumas, I think is when I will feel ready to do it. If that makes sense. I think it could be a good space both. No, but I will say this though I wasn't ready when I got divorced last year. I wasn't ready. I wanted to go have fun and ignore him, like I've been doing therapy for so many years, like I'm fine, everything's amazing, And it catched me to Bikini and Miami, you know what I mean. Like I was like, in my mind knows like I've done so much therapy, I don't need to do this. And then I realized, oh god, I'm just repeating same patterns. And now I now, now a year later, and that's what I said. I'm like, instead of going to Miami, I went to I went to heal myself. And I definitely don't want to repeat the same patterns. So if i'm which I'm so far from it. But if I am thinking about dating, or if I am, it is very important to me to do work to not repeat same patterns. I will say that. So I do think maybe when my mind shifts a little bit that way, maybe I'll be more you know, going that way, And I don't. I don't know your your circumstances at all, and I know now wouldn't be the time to unpack that um but I but I empathize because I know I've walked with a lot of people gone through some transitions myself. A big transitions, especially once like what you're describing, can be really hard on our nervous system, no matter the circumstances, whether it's a choice or not a choice, they can be super stressful. And give yourself a ton of grace on how you're navigating it. Um, there will be time I encourage I um affirmed Janna, because I can tell you are close in in kind of the nudge she's like, and and I I think you're You're probably more likely to engage, um, you know, feeling invited like she's doing, Like, Hey, it's I'm not trying to push you somewhere, but I also want to really encourage it. But if you wanted to, I just encourage you to be well resourced in a big transition. Transitions are good times to come and do our experience, I will say that, but there are other resources that I just think you need a good a good net underneath you that when you navigate these next early stages in and on end that you've got a plan, and whether it's us or not, I'd be glad to help you know resource you and recommend some good things in the meantime until you feel like we might be a fit, or if you ever felt like we might be a fit. Okay, this conversation is definitely one of my favorite conversations because of how special this place is, and I really want a part two of this, So Miles um, we're going to part to this and join us next week to hear the second half of us.

Wind Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio Podcast. Okay, so I am just really excited about today's show because we have Miles ad Cox coming on the show and he is the co founder of on Site Workshops, which is where I went from my retreat intensive four and a half days, six individual hours a day with a therapist in a room and no phone. We missed you. I missed you, guys. It was very Although it's like a day one captain's log. Dear Janna, this is what I wanted to share with you today, but I didn't get a chance to letters to camp. But it was an amazing experience. And there's I just I really want him to come on to um talk about that special place that it is and what people can expect to go there, and um, yeah, it's just a it's a it's a beautiful place. And I feel like do I say this? I just I mean, I could go there all the time. It's so great. But I'm excited for Chicago. I'm ready, guys. It's been hard to not be with you. I feel like we need to one every day. Well actually I kind of needed like I didn't need a break. Yeah, and he added detox. I needed a wine. I haven't had a much wine in a long time. I drink a lot. It's like sweating on Tuesday. And I was like, I'm pretty sure that. I'm pretty sure that's Gabernet. I think I need to take a deep breath. Oh god, those shows were so much fun. But we are going to add new dates. I think we're we're looking at New York, We're looking at Cali, We're looking at those girls are already they are like all about my ig, like when you come into Michigan, but I might need a Michigan sweatshirt at duh. It's a homecoming Michigan. I wasn't going to do whatever. You are not fine, It's fine, we are. She doesn't want to tell you, so she's more Michigan than people that don't know how. I don't play every time. I learned I was drunk in college. I just want everyone to know that. And I don't remember the rule. We'll be drinking wine down, so we'll teach you then and I'll forget again. Okay, speaking of patterns, Miles, I've got let's get him on in. Well, thank you. I know that you are jet lagged from from the from the wedding in the troup, which, by the way, I feel like a lot of planes right now. Ever, feel like everyone gets delayed every like right now, it's like so bad. So I don't know what's going on, but definitely you want your patients test to go fly right. I've heard that people are saying that if you have like an actual speaking engagement, or if it's like for business, that you should book at least two flights, two separate airlines, because that's the chances of one getting canceled. Is so in your favor right now that to have a backup plan, that's not a bad idea noted for next time when you're not at Britney Spears's wedding. Um okay, so Miles and I go way back. I met Miles Scott how many years ago? Fifteen years ago, even more? Yeah, probably even more than that. I believe it was at Vanderbilt Children's Hospital. Good memory, thank you. Um yeah, I remember meeting you there and then um some Miles in which we've already talked about. But he I'll let you go into where you started because I'm I would mess it up. But just give the background because we're we obviously I talked to some about some about on site, and I'm gonna we're gonna ask you some questions around that and the other things. But can you just give a brief description of on site because that's kind of the focus of what we were talking about earlier in the show. Sure. Yeah, on site is something I'm really proud to get an opportunity to own and and and run and be part of an amazing team. I made a pivot back gosh, almost two decades ago. That's aging me. But I was in the entertainment space for a brief period working on the business side of sports, and kind of hit a patch in my own life where I needed some support and I got it. Thankfully, the right people came around me at the right time, and I just had a real lights coming on moment and new I wanted to shift gears and be a part of helping people evolve and and just become the best versions of whole I know they can be in their relationships and with themselves. And so that to me took me in the lane of psychology, and I did some more training and education and got into the space and have been in it now for quite some time and operated and run several programs, but the one I spend most of my time with and the one that I'm probably known for, is on site and on side as an emotional wellness retreat offering. We offer personal growth retreats, intensive self development work, um, you know, intensive therapy programs. And then I've also got some longer term options too, And we've got our main campus is just outside Nashville, about forty five minutes on a couple hundred acres a beautiful farm. And then we've got a second location we just added in San Diego County in southern California. So that's the very very quick version. But I'll be happy to get granular and tell you anything you want to know about it. Well, CHRISTI wants to know how we can get her husband there. I was like, so, we've got offered my husband and I got offered to go do a four day intensive there. But then COVID hit and so, and I'll be honest at the time when the offer came through, it was like, how do I leave my kids and unplugged for four days? Because I have like what some might classify as anxious attachment whatever when it comes to my children, So I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, and you too. I really didn't miss you guys. It's weird and we're together and then not together. But I thought four days is a long time, and I just it's so funny because I knew that I got the chance to talk to you today, and I started thinking about on Site again this morning, and I was like, I actually think four days feels like something I would do now because you, you and on Site are behind so many successful marriages on the country music side of like my world that I just can't imagine. I can't imagine what four days to actually just like think would be like at this point in my life. No, no, no no, please, please please you. First of all, I can I can relate, and I know what's behind the curtain. I'm a advocate of the work both is uh, you know, someone who delivers it, but also somebody who participates in it. I believe in it enough that I do at least one tune up a year for myself or my my marriage. And but every time, even though I know it's going to be beneficial and we've that that at four day window is really tried and true. Once people had an experience with us. Then we can get creative and curate shorter experiences like two days or three day or even one day or a half day. But for the first time, if you're coming in as a couple or as an individual, that we've really researched that amount of time and it it, you would think it it's gonna be monumentous to be able to step away from family obligations and things for four full days, but you'd be shocked at how fast it goes once you're there. But I want to humanize it and say every year I know it's going to be beneficial. I even get excited about it now. In some years, I've got stuff I really need to unpack, you know, I might be in a high stress season, and there's other years things are going quite well and I just want to do a tune up, just just for prevention sakes. But every time I stress and struggle about the time away, I think it's just human nature when we're in a rhythm and routine and suddenly it's going to be disrupted. Especially to do a digital clans like we do at our place, that definitely promotes some anxiety so you're not alone there and having some trepidation about coming. I will say too, there's something that um because I called Miles probably was probably two months ago, and I was just like I need to come now, like right now, like I'm in crisis mode. I can't shut my brain off, like I'm not good, and I just you know, we we talked through you know what I'm because I've obviously had been on set before two times before that, and and I remember talking to him too. And then when I saw you there because you you came with your family and there was um there was for some reason, I felt shame around it, going like how am I here again? And you definitely made me feel so much better when you said that you tune up to and things come up and I'm like, okay, so like because I almost felt I felt like a failure coming back. It's not a place you graduate from, right, That's what I loved. When you just said that to you, I was like, oh, tune up like it just made it so that makes it sound better versus like oh I have to go or yeah, like I thought I thought I fixed that twelve years ago when I went that one time, and then I thought I fixed it the next time, and I'm like, how am I here again? And like that's where it just feels like yeah, I don't know if it was like embarrassment or for a shame or like what it was. But but then you were like no, like there's the tune ups and the you know, you learning things and I'm like, okay, like that that made me feel so much better. So I just I want to thank you for that too, because I think it was hard to kind of walk back in that space again. That's really good to hear and you're not and I'm sure you know, but you're not alone there either. It's a I think I thought a lot about that, you know why people struggle and feel that if you come and invest in time with us that you're trying to fix something that's wrong with you, and it's it's you know, kind of counseling gets that wrap too, but it's actually not what's wrong with you at all. That you invest in becoming a better version of yourself no matter what season you're in, that's what's right with you. And it's not something I tell people all the time. It's not something you need, it's something you deserve. It's just humans. We don't look at our our mental wellness and our mind and our hearts the same way we do as our physical bodies. We know, improving our lives physically, it's not a linear process. It's not a check the box, start and stop. It's a maintenance. The same goes with with the mind, and it's it's a That's why I like calling an emotional fitness versus just this idea that we start here and stop here and skip through the meadow kombay and after we've done a little work, It's that's just the start of it. It's but the good news is over time, once you've got tools and you know the work, it gets a little lighter every time you're doing it, even if life throws you a pretty big curveball. That's so true on the fitness side, because I'm like, are we ever really like we might be in our best shape, but then you can fall back into certain patterns and it's like, yeah, I've never thought of it like those two together. Emotional fitness emotional fitness. You need to t m that pretty quick because I really like it. I've made the mistakes. I started talking about it probably twelve years ago, back when nobody cared always talking at the holiday in in Phoenix to six people, probably my friends at the time, but your way. But as as the speaking has really grown over the years outside of the last two years in the rooms got bigger and started speaking to large groups of people, I realized that was such a good frame and I actually wrote a definition for it and started working on a book for it, and never trademarked it. And and then since then two other books and a company came out and I was like, oh, I missed that one, but I still use it. You're the O G. Miles For everyone that's listening, we know well who knows I'm there. I think we're all just spiritual thiefs, but at least we still from the best. Somebody probably had it before I did. Sure. I think what's so special about onset too, and I'd love for you to speak to it is the experiential therapy. Because when I explained it to someone and I say, okay, um, you know, people d roll and in role as like my dad or in role as you know, my best friend, or they enrolled like for example, when I was there, I had I enrolled as queendom, so I got to step into like and every time to talk to my friends like the correct but like and it's like then I had to talk to myself how queendom would talk to me? And it's like there's something so special about experiential therapy that really just hits it, like right on the head, like because it's you know, I've done therapy for so long, but there's something about that experiential work to really like embody it. And I don't know, I don't know the methods were, like the terminology behind it, but like what do you think is so why do you think that therapy is so impactful versus other types of therapy? Mm? Hm, Well, what you're describing experienial therapy is is not It's certainly not the only model we do, but it is the one we're known for because we've been doing it a long time. I'm a big advocate and believer in experiential counseling therapy and even experiential education. When you're talking and you know what what is it, Well, it's a it's kind of an umbrella or a body of therapeutic modalities or age techniques that are action oriented versus just talking. Because so most of us that have either done counseling or we've seen it on tv U. You think about it as a verbal exchange between one person and another. If you most people see it on me. Do you see some my land on a couch and they're telling, you know, somebody something, that's that's what we most that's what we usually do, and that's well researched. That's kind of cognitive behavioral therapy or processing. It's really beneficial and it's effective. But for me, I did years of that and still felt really stuck until somebody got creative and showed me my story versus told me and reflected my story back to me. Because if you hear it in the context of like, yeah, we do role play and use drama on art, that would sound a little weird. Out of context, you're like, what, I don't want any part of that. But actually, for me, it moves, It moves faster, it feels safer, It hits the right part of my brain because our rational reasoning part, which is this pre final cortext if you think about the brain from the top down, is usually offline. When we're in strang us and we hold pain and trauma and our limbic and we just find experiential tools and therapy to access that limbic where we hold a lot of our pain, uh, you know, much more efficiently and faster. It's important that it's done safely because it's a powerful tool and you don't want to come in and and and uh, you know, open someone up and without the tools and skill to be able to slowly integrate. But it is um and if if I were to say something to you, all activates a third of your brain like I'm doing now. If I were to show it to you, it activates two thirds. And if I were to make it kinesthetic and put it into action, it activates all of it. You know. Uh. If you great trial attorneys UM that are trying to convince a jury, uh, you know, to to move their direction, They're not going to tell them what they want them to hear. They're going to show them. They're gonna bring props into the room because they know that if I can make this experience visual in kinesthetic, I'm more likely to sway someone's opinion my way. So those are just a couple of quick examples, and there's a lot of creative ways to do it, but we found it to be a really highly effective model to move really quickly and do a whole lot. I mean, some people hour by hour would compare our one week experience at Living Center program to like a year's worth of about patient therapy just because the pace it moves. Does that? Does that help? Jenna did that a little bit. Yeah, it's hard to describe to people that haven't been through it because they kind of go, that sounds a little weird. I'm like, no, no, but like it's the it's the most intense, amazing work that, like you said, I like, it's it's years of therapy in four days. I also think there's a level of safety that you guys provide at on site. Like I've had so many friends go and just recently, like one of my friends, Hayley Hubbard, just came back and she's been open about her visit there. That's why I'm sharing this. But you know, even when she was texting me the other day, she was just talking about She's like, you know, I went and I was going to be with these people and family, um, and she goes and then they weren't able to But it was just good because I just got to sit with myself and I'm like, yeah, but it's it feels so welcoming back because you guys have made it so safe. I think that then experiential therapy doesn't feel so weird or like, you know, I've been in some intensive like a two day intensive or a one day intensive with a group of country wives that you know, we're all processing and it's if I was to describe what we did they're together, would sound strange to people. But because you're in such a safe environment and you have this like code of conduct that you know it's confidential, I think knowing the level that you guys hold that piece makes people feel safe enough to do what you do there and allows them the feeling of like they got a year's worth in four days. And it's such an investment too, you know, like too, you're investing in yourself, which is I know people can be like, oh, well it's expensive, and you guys have things to help with that, don't you. Yeah, we kind of diversify or SoC economic Really it is expensive and good good really, because I curate therapeutic talent to death. I want the best of the best around the table and and we go to to any means to to get them. And so that they can support us with part of their time. I've just you know, counseling is like any other profession. There's a wide array of talent, and the the education and credentials are vital, but that doesn't dictate your skill level and your ability to be good at your work. There's other factors that go into it and attracting those people. And then also I really appreciate what you were sharing about the safety piece because I'm obsessed with that. I think psychological safety is everything because without it, we don't have trust. And you can do great therapy without trust, but I don't find it to be very sustainable and it doesn't support great outcomes. So if we lose our ability to be who we are and curate in an environment where people feel safe to be vulnerable, then we're missing the mark right out of the gate. And we have an advantage because we have a location where we can curate an experience, We can curate the hospitality, we can kind of insulate the environment enough where people can experience psychological safety. And that's my favorite thing of everything. We do. Take all the tools, the techniques, the change and we're not there to do anything to you. It's just mirroring back and experience with you of what it feels like to feel safe being in your skin and being fully who you are, and ideally you go back out and and show up that way a little bit more in your relationships, in your work, in your craft. And I always say to people when they're they're you know, it's that a little curated space that you know, the world is definitely not going to feel like this, you know, to you, but ideally you're going to begin to feel like this to the world. And and I've since learned that, you know, people would think that people that do what we do, kind of that personal growth, self development space, that it's kind of weird and you go there when you need it, But actually I think it's it's more culturally sound, connected and appropriate than the world we live in. So I've since looked at well, I don't think we're very weird. I think the world is kind of weird. I would actually agree with that. I would say to like a rama, that safety thing. One of the main things is you don't say your last name and you don't say what you do. And that was a piece too, where you know, it's it's nice. They might maybe recognize you, um, but again, you you have such a safe place. I mean, and something did happen when I was there the last time. I was eating lunch and I didn't know that this person knew me, but he said my name first and last name, and one of the supervisors heard it, who has was was one of my supervisors from ten plus years ago, and she came over to me and but in that moment, I was like, I felt like I had to put on a face again. I was like, for three days, I've been just me and people liked just me. And then all of a sudden, the guy goes Janet Kramer and I was like and like my my whole and I was just like, oh god, and I felt so exposed because I'm like, we I've been like so like and it was just and then Lin Lindn came over to me and was like, and I just started bawling because I just like, now I feel like I have to like put on this Jannah Cramer face and like and and it was just and the person end up having a background yeah, or like He's gonna go and tell X, Y and Z that I just did this thing in front of the group because you become like this like almost like this CULTI family where you just like you love on everybody and it just becomes so such a beautiful and you you're you know, lifting people up and encouraging them and and then it's like, God, is he going to go back and say that I was like bawling about this or you know, the person and you guys ended up making the person leave because there was a few other things that happened, but like, and I appreciated that, like the keeping that protection because it is so important to people at on site, so well, for a minute, it took your safety away, like you didn't feel safe. Well, then I felt like I had to go do what I always do, put a smile on and put a face on and then put my act on, and like that was not what I wanted to do. Um, go ahead, I just say I appreciate you speaking into that. It's you know, we work a lot with creatives and it's particularly the community that I know some of you work in music, film, television, sports. It's kind of it's a it's a division that we just doubled down on because we just brought Debbie Carroll over to launch a new division. Around it, which if you don't know her, you should get to know where. She ran the music Cares for the last twenty four years and just a pioneer at the intersection of mental health and music. I'm so excited to have her on board. And she's been a friend in a colleague forever. But we're getting ready to do more in that space. But you bring up an important port which is important point, which is, uh, there's that uh jetlag brain, which is it's it's one of the hardest things that we do is separate ourselves from this identity that we create and we lose. In other words, Uh, there's a lot of great human doings that come to our programming. They do great things, and we try to say, okay, well we get that, we want you to be a human being for a week and and I struggle with a too. We all do because we I think in the first uh thirty seconds of every new conversation we have with a new person, nine of the time we will ask what the other person does. So we quickly sized people up based on what they do. So that was important to us to say, let's just remove that. Let's equal the plan field and now for people who don't have a public profession, it's amazing. And even those that do that don't have incidents like yours, it's amazing that they just get to be a human for a week and not known by what they do, but better known by who they are. But in regards to people who do things publicly, it is a challenge because we do what we do and we hold a very strict guideline and so I'm glad you brought that put point up. We let people know right up front that it doesn't matter what someone does when they're here. If you recognize them, why what they do, then we ask you not to engage them with that, and if you do, we would see that as a guideline violation because again it creates a safety issue. But we also know that humans are humans and we can say that we can do that and sometimes people are gonna approach anyway. It's pretty rare. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does, we try to take action pretty quick. But the good news about on site is we've really been pushing against the stigma for a long time, especially against the entertainment community. And thankfully, and I credit honestly um folks like you know, you, Jenna and others who have been outspoken vulnerable advocates for doing your own work, and you've said on site it's a good place to do it, because now it's become a little bit more of a hip, trendy, cool thing to do. It's not like, oh my gosh, I gotta go to onsite. It's like when do I get to go to on site in the music community, which has been a real advantage because it creates a safety where people come and they're not really worried about being there. They just want to know that what they do there stay safe and contained, and we've got a lot of measures in place to make sure that's the case. And I will say to the investment in yourself is just everything. And I told I wish I could gift it to every single person that I know. And I came back and obviously, you know, Catherine, you're going through what you're going through, and I said to you, I was like, just tell me when you want to go, because I want, like, I want all of you guys to experience that. And I think you said you wanted to talk to Miles about that kind of hesitation right of of stepping into it. Yeah, I mean I'm kind of, you know, in the scheme of things, kind of new word of therapy, you know. I mean I obviously just started with my newest therapist. Gosh, I don't know, six eight months something like that. But I've been in therapy before. But I am more the hesitant, you know, therapy seeker if you will. You wouldn't classify her as right out of the game. I love to be very vulnerable at love to talk about a lot um but I believe it or not UM, but I'm actually going through a divorce. But when we were in UM couples therapy the first time, it was it was kind of that like and I put this on myself to kind of like, let's go to therapy to fix you kind of think, and you mean your partner, fix your partner, fix you partner. I have the obvious you know, family history that was just obviously affecting me in ways, and so it was kind of like, let's go to therapy to fix Catherine kind of thing. And then I think, as you know, we went through it's like everybody has their stuff, you know, and then we ended up not being happy with our therapist and we were kind of in and out. But anyways, I am hesitant all that to say, Um, if I'm completely honest, the thought of a week of therapy, like being like a year of therapy is terrifying to me. I mean, just to be completely honest, like for someone that doesn't love to be vulnerable, doing it for that long is so overwhelming to even think about. And I love hearing you all talk about it because I think it seems amazing and I think it's something that I would love to want to do. I just am not necessarily there, but I think it sounds amazing. I'm not saying, you know, I'm sure it's great. It's just make sure that someone like me make sure that the view is great. You get to eat with both hands for four days, okay, let me get to you and the sonic You get to sleep sonic eye, Sonic eye. You do get to sleep like you get to sleep it or you get it early. I don't know, it's like eight o'clock. If you want to do the meditation, you can. You can keep a pretty pretty good, pretty aggressive schedule. However, it is because I want, we want to give you everything we got while you're there. However, people do report that after the first of the worth that they sleep better than they haven't a really, and we get way too much credit because they're like, what kind of mattresses and sheets do you have? It's no, it is the best. I'm telling you. That room that y'all put me in, Oh my gosh, I was like, I'm not getting like I wanted to know exactly what the sheets were too. Is so comfortable? Well they are? They are nice. I do care about the details, and I love hospitalities. I love caring a good experience, but they're not like what you would expect, like high, high thread count all that. I think it's more the context the work that you do. But you speaking to that hesitation, it's, um, I'm not uh knowing that you're somebody that is intrigued or would consider doing something with us at some point. Obviously I get excited about that because I'm such a believer in what we do. But um, I'm not um dissuade at all by hesitation. I think it's a totally appropriate response, especially in this context when you hear to adopt, you know, to people that are early adopters. In other words, we've we've both been clearly I worked there, but we've both been talking about it so enthusiastically and it's like, well, wait a minute, what is this And even hearing about the fire hose kind of experience, like, that's a lot that's that's totally normal. And I would say more than six of the people that come feel that way. They have a lot of hesitation and a little bit of anks. And I always encouraged by that because that's a great place for us to start if you didn't have any Now, there are instances in certain examples, like with what Jane I was talking about, where Okay, I've done this enough that I know where I'm coming. I feel relief to be there to get out of a stressful environment. That happens some too, but more than not, you're definitely in the majority where it's like, oh, I'm not so sure. One thing that would help, and we probably couldn't do it in a in a podcast, but to get on a call with me or or one of our one of our folks and just have a conversation that we can learn more about the hesitation. And I bet when we walk you through with more time that it could help give you more information to ensure that it's going to be a a time time well spending. It may not be. It's it may not be for everybody, it may not be right now. There should never be any pressure with it. But it's a cool experience and therapy is a part of it, but it's also it's a beautiful retreat space. And I put as much emphasis on the hospitality and as I do the therapy, and so like they said, if anything, if you need a mom retreat, it could be a good place to go to. Yeah, and I would say cats too, like I think, And I could be totally wrong, you could be totally you know, fine, whatever, But there's just something in me where I just feel like because I've received the gift of what on site has given me in that kind of because in the beginning and the very beginning, the first day, you it's like this, You're all in a room together and everyone's kind of looking around, everyone like, oh God, what the hell do we signed you know, sign up for? And then you go to one side of the room people that are excited to be there, that are and then there's the people that are like what did I do? There's not many people to the far right and I was the last one. I was all the way like why, like what did I do? Because it's like is it gonna work? Is it? You know? Am I going to leave here? And they just the whole thing is trust the process, and I just think for you and this is just me and you can call me out and say absolutely not, but like there's a piece that I think you're blocking, and I just want to see that wall go down. Oh sure, because I think when you get that, and that's what I think you would get it on site, you will have this break this amazing breakdown and breakthrough. Yeah, And I agree with you and be part of the hesitation. Well, and that's what I'm saying. That's like because I'm like, I'm almost like feel you like the wall like coming up, and I'm like, you need to have the breakdown to get through the breakthrough. Yeah. Yeah, No, I agree with you. The law firm and we break down every other day. Another another that was well said Jenna, But I think another thing to consider too, when Jenna actually referenced it when she was talking a moment ago, how it can feel so connected and tied and curated that you even you joke, but I think you mentioned like cultures type feel I mean very I'm very leary of that type stuff. If I hear like this real you know, everybody's talking about this thing that we have to do, then I honestly I had this little part of it, doesn't trust it. I'm like, wait a minute, what's going on? Is this tooke a bit in? And I want you to hear that. Um, I I have seen that happen a lot in in spiritual and emotional growth offerings. I mean, you've seen some of the documentaries that are super creepy right now about how people, uh, even low key, creating dependence on what they do. And we make a huge effort not to do that. That's not our model. We we don't. We don't believe that we have answers for you that you don't already have. We never want to create a dependence on our model or on us. We're fine for people to appreciate what we do, but believe, we believe people have within them what they need to change. We just are good partners to guide you through the process and then to let you go about your way, not to you know, come back. Um. All the time, there are people like me who choose to come back once a year, but that's more for me. It's not because of what I receive in our programming. So that could be part of it too. If you've ever been overpromised and under delivered by something that was really shiny, then there's probably a smart party that's sitting back being like, I'm not so sure. I don't know if that's the case for you or not, but I want to say that, Yeah, it's good to know for sure. Where are you kind of at with it? Are we a little emotional? No? I keep thinking you're crying every day. No, I just like I just I care. I just care so deeply for both of all my friends. And I'm like, I haven't called my brother. I was like, I know, we know our childhood stuff, but like you got to like go through this, Like, yeah, I think for me personally, I would like to kind of get through the divorce part of it. I mean, obviously that will come out and that will whatever, and kind of just when I'm ready to fully focus on myself and my past traumas, I think is when I will feel ready to do it. If that makes sense. I think it could be a good space both. No, but I will say this though I wasn't ready when I got divorced last year. I wasn't ready. I wanted to go have fun and ignore him, like I've been doing therapy for so many years, like I'm fine, everything's amazing, And it catched me to Bikini and Miami, you know what I mean. Like I was like, in my mind knows like I've done so much therapy, I don't need to do this. And then I realized, oh god, I'm just repeating same patterns. And now I now, now a year later, and that's what I said. I'm like, instead of going to Miami, I went to I went to heal myself. And I definitely don't want to repeat the same patterns. So if i'm which I'm so far from it. But if I am thinking about dating, or if I am, it is very important to me to do work to not repeat same patterns. I will say that. So I do think maybe when my mind shifts a little bit that way, maybe I'll be more you know, going that way, And I don't. I don't know your your circumstances at all, and I know now wouldn't be the time to unpack that um but I but I empathize because I know I've walked with a lot of people gone through some transitions myself. A big transitions, especially once like what you're describing, can be really hard on our nervous system, no matter the circumstances, whether it's a choice or not a choice, they can be super stressful. And give yourself a ton of grace on how you're navigating it. Um, there will be time I encourage I um affirmed Janna, because I can tell you are close in in kind of the nudge she's like, and and I I think you're You're probably more likely to engage, um, you know, feeling invited like she's doing, Like, Hey, it's I'm not trying to push you somewhere, but I also want to really encourage it. But if you wanted to, I just encourage you to be well resourced in a big transition. Transitions are good times to come and do our experience, I will say that, but there are other resources that I just think you need a good a good net underneath you that when you navigate these next early stages in and on end that you've got a plan, and whether it's us or not, I'd be glad to help you know resource you and recommend some good things in the meantime until you feel like we might be a fit, or if you ever felt like we might be a fit. Okay, this conversation is definitely one of my favorite conversations because of how special this place is, and I really want a part two of this, So Miles um, we're going to part to this and join us next week to hear the second half of us.