Velvet's Edge with Kelly HendersonPathways to Connection: Navigating Healthy Relationships with Jason VanRuler (The Velvet)
Description: Kelly talks to CSAT licensed therapist, speaker and podcast host, Jason VanRuler about the keystones to healthy relationships. Jason talks about the steps to getting a healthy relationship, as well as the obstacles he sees most amongst his clients on their journey to find these relationships with themselves and others.
HOST: Kelly Henderson // @velvetsedge // velvetsedge.com
GUEST: Jason VanRuler // @jason.vanruler // Jasonvr.com
Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.
Okay, I'm here with Jason Van Ruhler.
Licensed Therapists c SET Certified, your speaker, your hot podcast host.
Wow, words are hard sometimes.
I love that you are CESAT trained And we were just talking a little bit about some of the recovery world in Nashville. But a lot of people don't even understand what that means. And so for people listening who might be looking for a therapist and maybe want some insight into the different kinds of therapy, can you explain what c SET certified means.
Yeah, so it's a certified sex addiction therapist, and so i'm that and then I supervise people coming into the field, and so basically what that means is now more than ever, there are people struggling a lot with things like pornography and fidelity, and so my special training, or one of my special trainings is to help people kind of rebuild from that and also get sober, work on the relationships, and develop healthy intimacy.
Yeah, and so I love that you do so much work in the addiction world, because to me, it really ties into relationships, which is why you're here today. I found you on Instagram. I love your Instagram by the way. You do really great videos. And one of the things you say on your Instagram that I think is so important is Instagram is not therapy, which I'm like, yes, because I think I hear a lot of people these days. You know, you can find so much content out.
There with great therapist.
But you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, this is not just the thing you do to get like fixed. As you watch my Instagram videos, tell me about the problem.
Yeah, of course, I'm so good that probably you are a curate if you watch my videos. I'm being tengue in cheek there. I think I think now more than ever. I mean, like you said, the struggle is there's lots of good stuff out there, and so we can get a good start, we can get some awareness, but what's true is it's not tailored to us, and without it doesn't really get us anywhere. And so I've been really just concerned and trying to be intentional about I want to help people kind of like recognize a place to start, but I don't want them to think that the place they're starting is also the end, because those are two different spots.
Yeah.
Well, so there is great content on your Instagram, but a lot of the videos focus on relationships and healthy relationships, which is again how I found you. And so it made me start thinking because you know, I do a lot of interviews on this podcast just about trauma and diving into your childhood and inner work and healing.
But then the.
Goal and a lot of our lives is healthy relationships, and not just with other people but also with yourself. We talk about the whys and the how how you got there, but then it's like and then what And so your your content was really intriguing to me because you're talking about that about the then like where do we go after this? So I think a lot of people can say things like I want a healthy relationship, but like where do we start? That's the part that seems to be so overwhelming. So if you had to like put into bullet points where people could start, where do we start?
Yeah? Well, I think just an awareness that we want a healthy relationship, right, and then some recognition of is that where I'm at or is that an aspirational place I'd like to be? I think just for me, you know, I tell people that a lot of why I became a therapist is selfish, right, because I came from a place where I didn't know what a healthy relationship was and I wanted to. And so a lot of what drove me was just this realization of I'm not sure how to get there, but I know I want that, versus what I came from. And so I think really getting started is just kind of having awareness about, like, where did you come from? And is that something you want to replicate? Is that something that you want to change drastically? Do you want to shift that a little bit? And then where do I find people who can teach me how to do that?
Yeah?
And I guess what other question would be is what even is a healthy relationship? You know, because you said you started your journey with thinking I want this, but I don't know how to get it. But did you even know what you were looking for?
Then? No? No, I mean I think I think in some ways it's kind of like when you get that dresser from my Kia and like you have the gist of what a dresser's supposed to look like, Yeah, there's like these hundred pages of instructions. You're like I don't know what to do with that, Like I just I just want to get there. And so I think sometimes when we have wounds or trauma or past experiences that inform this stuff, we feel like a healthy relationship is a destination that a process. And so I think even for myself personally, when I got into this business, like for me that was that was like the destination. You know, you kind of you reach a healthy relationship and then I don't know, like the skies open up and like something amazing happens, there's unicorns, and yeah, I didn't like, you're done. And I think what I've learned along the way is no, it's just like it's more of a process. It's a thing that we do. It's a way of life, but but not you know, the thing that we're probably ever going to arrive at in the way that we want to.
I like that the reminder that it's a process and a journey. So you said the first step would be to just you know, kind of have the awareness that this is what I'm looking for, But.
Then what does it look like after that?
Because if it is such a journey, how do we know what we're doing or how do we even try to start navigating that.
So I think just the easiest thing is to identify, you know, it's just what I want? Is it not what I want? And if it isn't, then who has what I want?
Like?
Where would I go and identify? Like that person seems to be doing the thing I want to do, right, they seem to have the relationship I want, they seem to have the confidence I want, or whatever that thing is. And you start there. You literally you put yourself in places with those types of people. So that might be a therapist, it might be like a mentor couple, might be a community group. I mean, any one of those things. But you go where the people you want to be like are And I know, the whole maxim about you know you are the people you spend time with is cliche, but it's also true. So if we want to have this healthy relationship, we got to start with who we think has one.
Yeah, and it's not just about relationships like romantic, right, because I mean, for me, what I've noticed in my life is the things that I bump up against in romantic relationships. Even if I get out of that relationship, then I'll still you know, I'm still me, and I'm still stuck with me, and so I still start bumping up against the same issues in my work, in my relationship with myself, and for me, most of it has ended up being some sort of healing that I need within me to be able to show up differently in all areas of my life.
I think a relationship with ourselves is really the model for every other relationship, right, because we recruit other people into that space, and the problems we have often are just exacerbated, right. And so if we're coming into relationship with some woundedness, if we don't take care of that, it's just going to show up in the relationship, you know. I think sometimes we believe the relationship will solve it. And man, I love that idea because that idea means, like you don't have to do anything except forget to a relationship.
Great.
Yeah, I mean that's awesome. I mean, if you can swing it, cool, But most of the time you're going to be the same person. And so if that person is not someone that you like, if you don't have that healthy relationship with yourself, chances are romantic relationships or friendships or professional relationships are going to be a challenge.
Right with your work, I mean you're doing a lot, like we said, with addiction based situations. What are the things that you're seeing people bump up against when they're saying like, Okay, yeah I need therapy, I want to work. There's some things. What are the main things you're having to work through with people?
Some of the themes that I see are just am I worthy? Right? Am I worthy of a relationship? Like? Is that for me? Like I know where I came from, I haven't had it. Maybe that's something about me? Or we might wonder am I okay? Or am I lovable? Or I'll here, am I too much? And so when we have those kind of core wounds or I'll say, you know, things that are kind of tattooed on our heart, we carry those around with us and so we kind of find people to help answer that question. And that's not always so helpful for us.
Right.
So if we say, you know, I don't know that I'm enough, and you tell me I'm enough, but the cost is a really crappy relationship. I don't want you to settle for that, right, I want you to know how to answer that question for yourself.
Yeah, it's so interesting in our culture because I feel like so much of our life and maybe this is just I'm making this up about social media, but it feels like we like lead with this version of ourself that seems like we have it all together. And so it's so interesting to me when I'm really digging deeper in conversations with people, how many people really do resonate with that one thing, like I'm not enough or I'm not worthy. And it's so funny to me or interesting, I guess because if you base it off of someone's Instagram, they think they're worthy, you know, like on the outside, people just.
Lead with that, it seems.
But it seems like a big core issue in our country specifically of just like not knowing our own worthiness, and maybe it's a disconnection from self.
Well, I think it has a lot to do with where we come from and how we're raised right, and so albeit maybe our parents our caretakers didn't mean to impart that question on us, we might have internalized that, and so I think a lot of times it stems from past experience. But to your point, you know, we live in a place where you put the best stuff out right, you don't put that other stuff out, and so the challenges is we're seemingly more connected than ever, but actually less connected because we're not connected in vulnerability. And the thing is is that people connect on vulnerability, not the presentation we make. And I think that's the struggle all of us have, is putting that truth out there, which is, you know, it's great and it's terrible. Sometimes it's both.
Yeah, And I mean as far as vulnerability goes, I think there's like this balance, right, because then we see this other thing happening on I'm using social media.
I don't know why. It's just really pinging me right now, but over sharing, and.
So it's like this balance between like what is vulnerability if you had to define it, what does that actually mean?
Yeah?
I think vulnerability, to me, in practical terms, just showing ourselves to others, right, And so I think there's degrees of that. And to your point, we have to know our audience and not everybody's our audience. And so I think is my social media platform my audience for my deepest, most vulnerable stuff. Probably not, Like I don't know that that's what they signed up for. A great friend or a therapist might be. But we have to we have to know who's going to be able to receive that and help us with it. Yeah.
I like the word receiving because it's also about safety, right, Like, not everyone gets to know all your insides because they're not safe as people who can hold that information without judgment or anything like that.
Yeah, and they might not even want that job. I mean, that's right. You know, they might not be volunteering for that. And so some of the challenges that we have to have, even if we want that healthy relationship is just learning how to identify safe and healthy people to share with, because, like you said, it's not going to be everybody. It's nothing against people, but not everyone's going to be in the inner circle.
Okay, if you had to put together some keystones of a healthy relationship, what would they be.
You know, they'd probably be boring and stuff that you've heard before, but they're true anyway, right. I mean, I think it's it's communication. I think it's finding a way to express intimacy. There's different types of intimacy, and so it's not just sex, but how do we connect on an intimate level? I think do we have shared values and principles? Do we have some similar interests don't have to be identical, but like, are we generally headed in the same direction, because that's really important.
So that is really important.
Yeah, absolutely, because otherwise how do we get there? Right? So if I'm going left and you're going right, I mean, that's like a story book romance. But I don't know how that works out after ten or twenty years.
Because there's an interesting thing, like I've heard people say, you know, well, this is my hobby. I don't really want my partner to go do that with me. But I see what you're saying because a lot of times, to me, the things that you're passionate about and especially what you give your free time to kind of line up with your value system in some ways. And so if they're out of line, then you're, just like you said, going in completely different directions.
Yeah, and that becomes a challenge. And not that we can't overcome challenges for communication and things like that, but it's just another challenge. So right, I think, you know, if you want that relationship, you have to be able to look at how does this all add up and try to be objective, which is hard to do in a new relationship.
That's a really good point. Okay, Well, as I mentioned, I've found you on Instagram. I love the videos you post and a lot of the times you do these.
Like three ways to X, Y and Z.
So if you guys are looking for tips on relationships on some of the things we've been talking about in a little more detail, go check Jason's Instagram out. I kind of wanted to do there was a couple that have really stuck out to me lately, and so if we could do maybe a little bit of a rapid fire review of those videos, I'll just tell you the one they are, and then maybe you can kind of review with the listeners what you were talking about in these videos. But one of the things that I loved recently was you said healthy couples circle back. Yeah, tell us about that video.
Yeah. So I think, you know, when we're conflict avoiding, we can do this thing where we kind of run into conflict and then we say that was super uncomfortable. I was angry, and let's just not do that again, and both parties just kind of agree that, like, yeah, it would just be better if we can do that, and so the feelings pass and then they just keep going. And so I think what we need to do is we need to circle back, because oftentimes what happens is that if we don't deal with it, resentment develops. And so even though the feelings might temporarily subside, the resentment is still there and the conflict or the problem is still unresolved. And so that circling back thing is important. I got some really good feedback actually, So that's one of the benefits of getting to do this is I'm always getting good feedback too. And someone had said something about, you know, what if we're always just circling back, and so I would add that, like, circling back is important if we're working towards resolution, right, So like rehashing or beating something to death without resolution isn't really beneficial. But what I'm kind of calling people to do is like circle back and resolve.
It, okay, And so what if you are finding yourself consistently circling back to the same issue, is that when to go ask for help?
Perfect, Yeah, if we can't resolve it, I would just you know, if you come in to talk to me, like I would say, hey, tell me three things you've tried to resolve this, Like, give me three attempts you've made and if you've made three and they haven't worked, then yet it's probably time to recruit some help for that.
Another thing I loved is this video you did that you pointed out the superpowers of trauma survivors, because you know, there's so much out there about the wounds of trauma and how to work through trauma, but no one really talks about how resilient so many trauma survivors are. And then in my experience, exactly what you talked about in this vide ko, if you do do the work after whatever said trauma, you've experienced the kind of capacity that I see people have for human connection, love, all of the things seems to be so much greater. So can you speak to all of those topics and what you talked about in this video a little bit?
Yeah, I mean, I think, like you said, we spend a lot of time focusing on problems, right and just saying, like, you know, if you're a traumas forever, like this is what comes with it, and it's sort of like this terrible thing, right, here's what you get. You get all these problems, and I just think, like, what about the other side, because what I know about our behaviors that there's both parts of that, right. In some situations it is negative and challenging. In other situations is helpful. And so while I know that no one listening, myself included, would like to volunteer to have a traumatic experience, right, No one's saying that, I think that sometimes when we do the work, like you said, there could be good and beautiful things that come from that.
Yeah.
I mean, in my experience, the most dramatic experiences in my life, like you said, have not been fun. But I always like the version of myself after the experience so much more because it just like they always say, you know, when your heart gets broken, it cracks open, and actually that's when the love can really flow out. And so like what I've noticed about who I've becomes, I have developed a greater sense of empathy because of the work I've done on myself. My ability to show up in relationships is better than it was before. As crazy as it is to say, because a lot of the trauma has come from relationships, Yeah, it just seems like if you do the work, you're actually hopefully going to find yourself on the better side.
After Absolutely, you have that depth of understanding and experience, and it is, like you said, it's painful, it's challenging to do that work, and yet there can be good that comes from that. And so my feeling is like, why don't we talk about the good right Because if I'm struggling, you know, with the traumatic experience, I don't know that I need to be told about all the bad things right away. Maybe I need some hope. And so my kind of thought process as a therapist and just as a person who's had trauma, is I needed hope. I need to hope more than anything else at that point, and so that's what I'm going to try to give people.
Yeah, and do you find that it takes away the terminal uniqueness when you start talking about all the aspects of it, Like when you go through something traumatic, a lot of times it's just isolating and you feel like, oh my gosh, my life is terrible. These things happen to me. I'm isolated in this. And then if you can find a safe space to open up, I think you realize a lot of times that most of us have had some sort of trauma at some point in our life, and so it's really learning how to process through it, navigate, get to the other side, and then use it in a positive, a positive way. But you aren't alone, I guess, is my whole point.
Yeah, and I'm with you. I mean, I think one of the most probably beautiful and heartbreaking things that I experienced doing work with people is when they share an experience that there's certain no one else has had and they find that other people have in fact had that. Yeah, And it's just a beautiful thing to see people kind of open up and be received and feel like they're in community. But it's also terrible in the sense that sometimes we wait years to make that realization. Right, Sometimes we carry a thing that we're certain is only ours that no one else has experienced for five, ten, twenty years, and it costs us quite a bit. And so that's the challenge, right, is getting that out and getting connected because to your point, in some ways, to lose things and have pain and trauma like that's part of the human experience. It's again, nothing we're signing up for, but it is part of the deal quite often.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
Tell us about the video that talks about compromise versus sacrifice.
Yeah, Well, I love a good sacrifice. I mean, I think sacrifices are awesome. Yeah, they're good. You get to kind of be the hero and save the day, which is one of my favorite things to do. But at the end of the day, you know, maybe it's not so great because maybe the more you sacrifice, you start to like keep score a little bit and you start to remember, you know, like I sacrificed a little more than you did. And so I think the challenge is is just to kind of have some awareness about that, because some of us fall into the sacrifice category pretty easily.
Yeah.
And then the other thing I was thinking about when you were talking was the more I sacrifice, sometimes the more inauthentic I'm actually being, because I like end up giving up so much at myself that I lose myself to the relationship or whatever the need is. And that's not I mean, one is not healthy. But that's not, like I said, authentic either, And so there is no basis for true connection or vulnerability when you're constantly in that rescuing quote unquote sacrifice position.
Yeah. Absolutely, And then what's difficult is I think eventually, if we do it often enough, we kind of set the tone of the relationship as being I'm going to sacrifice or you'll sacrifice, and if we're not careful, we become kind of this ridiculous parody of ourselves, right we're just like, I don't like, who is this person that's say and doing these things? And that's not me? And I did it, you know, the first five times because I thought it would make it go away, And now this is this is kind of a permanent thing in our relationship, and that's when the problems really start.
Is that why people I know, for me, I resonate with like getting stuck in that loop because just like what you just said, it just seems easier. Like in the beginning, you're like, let me just fix this. I can do this really fast and it'll be done. But ultimately to have the conversation to find the compromise and something that works for everyone, am I take a little longer, but like in the long run, it actually becomes easier. Like that Is that how we get ourselves in that pickle of sacrifice is just thinking like, oh, this seems like the easy way out.
Yeah. I think it's feeling like it's the easy way out. I think it's also conflict of avoidance. I think it's some of those kind of am I enough, I too much? Kind of managing the other person. But the challenge is, you know, it's anxiety provoking to give someone space to figure it out. Like I would rather just sacrifice than to give you space and see if you act figure it out or not, because I risk rejection in that, right, I mean. And so it's I remember like when I first became a therapist, you know, there would be these times and someone would present a problem and I would know how to solve it, and so I would want to just like jump right in and solve it because it gave me anxiety to wait it out, right, like waiting five or tutes. I was like, I don't know, and you know, I'm this ball of anxiety over there, and it was just like, well, that's about me, not them, right, And so I don't know. You know, when you think about relationships, not everybody is going to be your person, and so you got to give it space and see if they are. But that's that's stressful in some ways for us.
Oh my god, so stressful.
I just got stressed even when you said that, because I'm like, that's exactly it. I never thought about that though, But you do have to like give things the space and detached from the outcome, which ugh for a part.
Rather than just manage it. I can use that sacrifice to do it.
Just let me do it, I mean much, even though again it's not really safe ultimately, but in the moment, it's like, what can I do to make this anxiety go away immediately?
Right?
Yeah?
Amazing, Well, Jason, thank you so much. These are amazing tips. And like I said, if you guys are interested in any sort of videos that can help you kind of through your day, you can follow Jason on Instagram. Tell the people where your Instagram is.
Yeah, it's Jason dot van Ruler and I do pretty much daily or a couple of times a day videos about kind of what we talked about, what are relationships, what are kind of areas of relationships we can look at, and how do we get to a healthier place.
And you also have a podcast called Okay What's Next? So tell the listeners a little bit about what they can find on your podcast.
Yeah, so in Okay with Sex, I just love to talk to people about kind of what their next step is, whether that's relationally, personally, but you know, if you know me very well, you'll know that I say okay with sex a lot to probably an annoying degree, because I'm always kind of saying like, oh, here we are, like where are we going? And so it's just really a podcast exploring that with different people who are doing different things.
I love that anyway they can find anywhere they listen to Podcastsume.
Yeah, it's on Apple and Spotify. Yep.
Awesome.
Okay, what's next is the podcast? You can follow Jason on Instagram. I'll put all of this in the description. Thank you so much for being here. I love talking about healthy relationships. I'm hoping to find some.
Well, this was super good. You had wonderful questions. I love the question, so thanks so much for having me. Kelly appreciate it.
Awesome. Thank you guys for listening.
Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.
