Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Okay, Ricky Close is here, relationship writer. I actually found you via Instagram. I've been following you and stalking you for quite some time, so.

Okay, Ricky Close is here, relationship writer. I actually found you via Instagram. I've been following you and stalking you for quite some time, so.

It's always nice. Yeah, it's nice to actually.

It's always nice. Yeah, it's nice to actually.

Connect with the people that you feel like you know because you follow them on Instagram. But you have your Instagram is Anxious Heart's Guide, where you give insight and tips on anxious and avoidant attachment styles. You also speak from personal experience, and I love hearing about your relationship before we get started. I just wanted to I feel like I said this to you before the podcast, but I feel like most people these days in twenty twenty three have heard about attachment styles, Like if you open Instagram, I feel like it's everywhere, and so maybe they have some surface level understanding. But could you kind of just address, like what attachment styles are, what the different ones are, and kind of give us a basic foundation for each one before we get into this conversation.

Connect with the people that you feel like you know because you follow them on Instagram. But you have your Instagram is Anxious Heart's Guide, where you give insight and tips on anxious and avoidant attachment styles. You also speak from personal experience, and I love hearing about your relationship before we get started. I just wanted to I feel like I said this to you before the podcast, but I feel like most people these days in twenty twenty three have heard about attachment styles, Like if you open Instagram, I feel like it's everywhere, and so maybe they have some surface level understanding. But could you kind of just address, like what attachment styles are, what the different ones are, and kind of give us a basic foundation for each one before we get into this conversation.

Yeah, let's do that.

Yeah, let's do that.

I think it's a very hot topic right now, so you do see it floating around all over Instagram. But one of the dangers of that is that everybody has kind of this surface level understanding of it. Everybody's trying to diagnose themselves or their partners. So hopefully the listeners today can get a sense of a bigger understanding for what attachment theory is and what it does and what it describes, and maybe also what it doesn't do. I think there's we're missing a lot of that on Instagram.

I think it's a very hot topic right now, so you do see it floating around all over Instagram. But one of the dangers of that is that everybody has kind of this surface level understanding of it. Everybody's trying to diagnose themselves or their partners. So hopefully the listeners today can get a sense of a bigger understanding for what attachment theory is and what it does and what it describes, and maybe also what it doesn't do. I think there's we're missing a lot of that on Instagram.

So oh yeah, well that makes me excited.

So oh yeah, well that makes me excited.

Okay, yeah, okay, cool.

Okay, yeah, okay, cool.

So attachment theory is how psychologists describe sets of behaviors that we tend to engage in in intimate relationships when we're trying to seek safety. So just from that right there, I want everybody to understand that this is not like your hardwired personality type. And I think that's one of the biggest myths out there on Instagram, is like, if you see the characteristics of an anxious attacher or or if you see the characteristics of an avoidant attacher and that sounds like your partner, These aren't like hardwired things that we can't find our way out of.

So attachment theory is how psychologists describe sets of behaviors that we tend to engage in in intimate relationships when we're trying to seek safety. So just from that right there, I want everybody to understand that this is not like your hardwired personality type. And I think that's one of the biggest myths out there on Instagram, is like, if you see the characteristics of an anxious attacher or or if you see the characteristics of an avoidant attacher and that sounds like your partner, These aren't like hardwired things that we can't find our way out of.

And it seems like there's a lot of misunderstanding there and it.

And it seems like there's a lot of misunderstanding there and it.

Makes me so sad. There's a lot of hopelessness too. Like I if somebody identifies as an anxious attacher and they see the bullet points saying clinging and desperate and they're like, ah, that's who I am, and that's who I'll always be, and they start to view their partner as this person who's always distancing too. Yeah, let's squash that myth today here on this episode. Okay, we're describing sets of behaviors that we tend to engage in that we can kind of train ourselves out of.

Makes me so sad. There's a lot of hopelessness too. Like I if somebody identifies as an anxious attacher and they see the bullet points saying clinging and desperate and they're like, ah, that's who I am, and that's who I'll always be, and they start to view their partner as this person who's always distancing too. Yeah, let's squash that myth today here on this episode. Okay, we're describing sets of behaviors that we tend to engage in that we can kind of train ourselves out of.

I love that's hopeful.

I love that's hopeful.

Yeah, I love that hope because and I actually think that's what I'm what it's kind of mentioning, Like I've been talking your page for a long time.

Yeah, I love that hope because and I actually think that's what I'm what it's kind of mentioning, Like I've been talking your page for a long time.

I think that is what I see. Is this like good? Oh yeah, because I told.

I think that is what I see. Is this like good? Oh yeah, because I told.

You, like I've done some work around this stuff, and when you start diving into it, you're like, oh, I'm just trying to get safe, and for whatever reason, something happened along my journey that kind of tricked my brain into thinking, you know, I'm not safe, and so I'm having I'm bringing that into this relationship. So there's a couple of ways that you've mentioned so far is anxious and avoidant. So are those the two main attacks?

You, like I've done some work around this stuff, and when you start diving into it, you're like, oh, I'm just trying to get safe, and for whatever reason, something happened along my journey that kind of tricked my brain into thinking, you know, I'm not safe, and so I'm having I'm bringing that into this relationship. So there's a couple of ways that you've mentioned so far is anxious and avoidant. So are those the two main attacks?

So the two well, you know what, let's go into the different styles. There's actually three main styles, and honestly, secure attachers are supposed to be the biggest group.

So the two well, you know what, let's go into the different styles. There's actually three main styles, and honestly, secure attachers are supposed to be the biggest group.

So we've got isn't that.

So we've got isn't that.

Wild someone I'm like, someone told me it was like fifty percent of people are secure attachers, and I was like, where are they?

Wild someone I'm like, someone told me it was like fifty percent of people are secure attachers, and I was like, where are they?

Though? Yeah, don't you know what.

Though? Yeah, don't you know what.

Totally secure attachers tend to partner up pretty young. Those are the people who are splitting off in their twenties, like getting married, getting married young and having pretty stable, pretty normal looking, safe feeling relationships. So we're not I'm in my thirties, we're not encountering lots of those people in the dating field in our thirties because they've widely pared off. Yeah, the research shows it's roughly fifty percent. So let's talk a little bit about the secure attachers. These people are comfortable with closeness. Relationships feel kind of easy for them. They're not scary unsafe places. They experienced closeness with their parents and in early romantic experiences that made them view relationships as feeling safe, nurturing, and healthy and predictable, so they're not spinning their wheels trying to figure out why someone said something, because in their mind, a relationship is kind of a safe place, and if it starts to feel like an unsafe place, they're probably going to set some boundaries down or exit the relationship if it's not working for them. That's the dream, right you and me, and maybe lots of people listening to.

Totally secure attachers tend to partner up pretty young. Those are the people who are splitting off in their twenties, like getting married, getting married young and having pretty stable, pretty normal looking, safe feeling relationships. So we're not I'm in my thirties, we're not encountering lots of those people in the dating field in our thirties because they've widely pared off. Yeah, the research shows it's roughly fifty percent. So let's talk a little bit about the secure attachers. These people are comfortable with closeness. Relationships feel kind of easy for them. They're not scary unsafe places. They experienced closeness with their parents and in early romantic experiences that made them view relationships as feeling safe, nurturing, and healthy and predictable, so they're not spinning their wheels trying to figure out why someone said something, because in their mind, a relationship is kind of a safe place, and if it starts to feel like an unsafe place, they're probably going to set some boundaries down or exit the relationship if it's not working for them. That's the dream, right you and me, and maybe lots of people listening to.

This are like, Wow, that is not my experience.

This are like, Wow, that is not my experience.

So I guess first, I'm probably going to talk about avoidant attachers a little bit.

So I guess first, I'm probably going to talk about avoidant attachers a little bit.

Okay, if you're.

Okay, if you're.

Watching a movie and it seems like one person's chasing and one person's desperately trying to get away and maintain their independence, that would be an avoidantly attached person. Probably these people tend to find safety in themselves. They might describe themselves as a lone wolf, or they're like fiercely independent. They're kind of afraid to ask for help. They have a generally negative view of relationships because in their experience, relationships are places where they have not been able to get their needs met. People are unreliable in their experience.

Watching a movie and it seems like one person's chasing and one person's desperately trying to get away and maintain their independence, that would be an avoidantly attached person. Probably these people tend to find safety in themselves. They might describe themselves as a lone wolf, or they're like fiercely independent. They're kind of afraid to ask for help. They have a generally negative view of relationships because in their experience, relationships are places where they have not been able to get their needs met. People are unreliable in their experience.

The only way to.

The only way to.

Feel safety is in themselves. Their core fear is a fear of closeness. So so their big goal is to when when when the stuff hits the fan, Avoidant attachers are gonna distance and try to calm themselves and just try to take care of business themselves because people let them down.

Feel safety is in themselves. Their core fear is a fear of closeness. So so their big goal is to when when when the stuff hits the fan, Avoidant attachers are gonna distance and try to calm themselves and just try to take care of business themselves because people let them down.

That's their that's their worldview.

That's their that's their worldview.

Okay, which might describe maybe the people that you've tried to have romantic relations all of them, Yeah, okay, same, same, right.

Okay, which might describe maybe the people that you've tried to have romantic relations all of them, Yeah, okay, same, same, right.

Yeah, maybe there's like one I can think of who wasn't, but yeah, everyone else.

Yeah, maybe there's like one I can think of who wasn't, but yeah, everyone else.

Awesome, Okay, and I awesome, it's a terrible experience. Awesome because I can relate to that, right, Yes, Avoidant attachers are like they're like my kryptonite, Like I can't stay away from them. I actually admire a lot how independent they are and and they I don't know, they just seem omnipotent, like they can do anything they want. And there's something really appealing for that to to anxious attachers, which is how I relate and probably you from the sound of it. So, an anxious attacher is somebody who only seems to find safety in other people. We lack self trust. We're very nervous and afraid that people are going to abandon us. And this comes, unfortunately, when we're really young, from kind of inconsistent care, or what we perceive as inconsistent care. We might have noticed that our parents were very close and loving and then they were gone, so in our mind, the only way to stay safe is to be constantly looking out for signs that they're going to leave. We might have felt abandoned by a romantic relationship when we're when we're young in our first romantic relationships. It can come from that place too, So yeah, our way of finding safety is becoming hyper vigilant looking for signs of abandonment and trying to stay ahead of those. Also maybe taking ourselves and putting ourselves and our needs aside so that we can just be Johnny on the spot for our significant other, you know, doing whatever they need to feel safe and important and loved, because we're protecting ourselves against our core fear of abandonment.

Awesome, Okay, and I awesome, it's a terrible experience. Awesome because I can relate to that, right, Yes, Avoidant attachers are like they're like my kryptonite, Like I can't stay away from them. I actually admire a lot how independent they are and and they I don't know, they just seem omnipotent, like they can do anything they want. And there's something really appealing for that to to anxious attachers, which is how I relate and probably you from the sound of it. So, an anxious attacher is somebody who only seems to find safety in other people. We lack self trust. We're very nervous and afraid that people are going to abandon us. And this comes, unfortunately, when we're really young, from kind of inconsistent care, or what we perceive as inconsistent care. We might have noticed that our parents were very close and loving and then they were gone, so in our mind, the only way to stay safe is to be constantly looking out for signs that they're going to leave. We might have felt abandoned by a romantic relationship when we're when we're young in our first romantic relationships. It can come from that place too, So yeah, our way of finding safety is becoming hyper vigilant looking for signs of abandonment and trying to stay ahead of those. Also maybe taking ourselves and putting ourselves and our needs aside so that we can just be Johnny on the spot for our significant other, you know, doing whatever they need to feel safe and important and loved, because we're protecting ourselves against our core fear of abandonment.

Okay, sounds familiar.

Okay, sounds familiar.

Yeah, yeah, and I know that. When I first learned about all this stuff, I was like, oh my gosh, that's one hundred percent.

Yeah, yeah, and I know that. When I first learned about all this stuff, I was like, oh my gosh, that's one hundred percent.

Me and I'm doomed, Like that's what I thought. I was like, Yeah, my only prayer is.

Me and I'm doomed, Like that's what I thought. I was like, Yeah, my only prayer is.

To find somebody who's secure and very comfortable with closeness so that they can give me all the closeness that I've been missing from these people who are running away from me. And I think a lot of people think that. I get a lot of comments on the page from people going like, ah, screw Avoidance. I don't ever want to talk to them again. I only want someone who's secure, or maybe another anxious person so that we can just live in our little burrito cocoon and never leave each other. And those comments make me really sad too. Why do they make it sad if Avoidance are doomed and not worthy of being loved, so are anxious because you're two sides of the same coin, right, Well, honestly.

To find somebody who's secure and very comfortable with closeness so that they can give me all the closeness that I've been missing from these people who are running away from me. And I think a lot of people think that. I get a lot of comments on the page from people going like, ah, screw Avoidance. I don't ever want to talk to them again. I only want someone who's secure, or maybe another anxious person so that we can just live in our little burrito cocoon and never leave each other. And those comments make me really sad too. Why do they make it sad if Avoidance are doomed and not worthy of being loved, so are anxious because you're two sides of the same coin, right, Well, honestly.

Yeah, go ahead, No, I'm just gonna let's talk a little bit about that because obviously most people that I see doing this kind of work, including me, And it's it's interesting because I do feel like I'm moving into a more secure attachment style. Yeah, and we can get into that a little bit later, but I just feel like most people who talk about this have had some personal experience with it, Like you know, you see therapists. I'm doing it, but most of them too will say like this was me back in the day or whatever, And so I kind of want to give listeners a little background into your story if you're sure in that, and just like what your relationships looks like, because I think then we can talk about what you're really relationship is now and maybe the difference.

Yeah, go ahead, No, I'm just gonna let's talk a little bit about that because obviously most people that I see doing this kind of work, including me, And it's it's interesting because I do feel like I'm moving into a more secure attachment style. Yeah, and we can get into that a little bit later, but I just feel like most people who talk about this have had some personal experience with it, Like you know, you see therapists. I'm doing it, but most of them too will say like this was me back in the day or whatever, And so I kind of want to give listeners a little background into your story if you're sure in that, and just like what your relationships looks like, because I think then we can talk about what you're really relationship is now and maybe the difference.

Absolutely those dynamics.

Absolutely those dynamics.

Cool, okay, And I always try to tell this story, the story as if the other people in it are listening, like, I want to be really compassionate and kind about anyone who's involved here.

Cool, okay, And I always try to tell this story, the story as if the other people in it are listening, like, I want to be really compassionate and kind about anyone who's involved here.

Yes.

Yes.

So I got married very young, okay, and my marriage.

So I got married very young, okay, and my marriage.

Was pretty good until the end when it was less good and we really we really got into that pursuer distancer dynamic like in a big way. And I love psychology, I always have. So I started reading a lot to try to figure out what was going on with.

Was pretty good until the end when it was less good and we really we really got into that pursuer distancer dynamic like in a big way. And I love psychology, I always have. So I started reading a lot to try to figure out what was going on with.

Us, and I still anxious move. It's such an anxious move, it it is. I was like pressing for straws.

Us, and I still anxious move. It's such an anxious move, it it is. I was like pressing for straws.

There.

There.

I stumbled on attachment theory and I even showed it to my ex husband. I was like, check this out. There's this dynamic where somebody's always trying to get close to the other person's always trying.

I stumbled on attachment theory and I even showed it to my ex husband. I was like, check this out. There's this dynamic where somebody's always trying to get close to the other person's always trying.

To get away. Yeah.

To get away. Yeah.

Even when he saw it, he was like, oh my god, that's us. That's exactly what we're going through. But unfortunately, the main book that I was looking at at that time was Attached. And don't get me wrong, I love Attached. It's a wonderful book. Yeah, but there's no hope in Attached. Attached is like you are this, you are this, and these people suck together.

Even when he saw it, he was like, oh my god, that's us. That's exactly what we're going through. But unfortunately, the main book that I was looking at at that time was Attached. And don't get me wrong, I love Attached. It's a wonderful book. Yeah, but there's no hope in Attached. Attached is like you are this, you are this, and these people suck together.

They are not going to have any kind of healthy thing.

They are not going to have any kind of healthy thing.

And I don't believe that at all. Now the author, uh Levine, he's even gone on to say, I wish that I hadn't written it that way. I know there are so many divorces and breakups because of the way that I presented this information.

And I don't believe that at all. Now the author, uh Levine, he's even gone on to say, I wish that I hadn't written it that way. I know there are so many divorces and breakups because of the way that I presented this information.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Okay, mm hmm yep.

Oh wow, I didn't know that. Okay, mm hmm yep.

And I was so glad when you put that out there. But I was like, the damage is already done. That Your book's one of the reasons I got divorced. Right, So we did end up splitting up because we didn't even with couples counseling, we didn't have any hope that we could change this dynamic.

And I was so glad when you put that out there. But I was like, the damage is already done. That Your book's one of the reasons I got divorced. Right, So we did end up splitting up because we didn't even with couples counseling, we didn't have any hope that we could change this dynamic.

So then there I am.

So then there I am.

Early thirties thrown back into the dating field, which was so weird because the last time I dated before that was like the early two thousands. It was like a dating on a different planet. And I end up meeting my current partner now, Chris. Even though I was doing so much research because I just loved attachment theory, I couldn't stop reading about it. I found myself a super attractive and very interesting raging avoidance and that was that was Chris.

Early thirties thrown back into the dating field, which was so weird because the last time I dated before that was like the early two thousands. It was like a dating on a different planet. And I end up meeting my current partner now, Chris. Even though I was doing so much research because I just loved attachment theory, I couldn't stop reading about it. I found myself a super attractive and very interesting raging avoidance and that was that was Chris.

Like a magnets though right it was. It was a whole party.

Like a magnets though right it was. It was a whole party.

And you put now with these like active attachment styles and a ring with a million other people, they'll find each other.

And you put now with these like active attachment styles and a ring with a million other people, they'll find each other.

It's just the way it works. No, he had like a glowing aura around him. When I saw him, I was like, that's the one I want here I am. Yeah, I was.

It's just the way it works. No, he had like a glowing aura around him. When I saw him, I was like, that's the one I want here I am. Yeah, I was.

Still very embroiled in my anxious attachment even though I knew what it was. I wasn't far enough into my work that I was really finding my way out of it yet.

Still very embroiled in my anxious attachment even though I knew what it was. I wasn't far enough into my work that I was really finding my way out of it yet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I started dating him and we went immediately into this like hardcore pursuer distance or dynamic, like even worse than in my marriage. And that's not to say that we had a bad relationship, but like all the classic things, me texting too much, me looking for a relationship label way too soon, me wanting to know all of his romantic history so that I could figure out ways that I wouldn't mess up, and him working too much, dodging my phone calls, going out of town and not saying goodbye, and not you know, giving me any heads up about where he was. We were a mess, like a mess, A mess. Yeah, And we kept kind of being a mess and end breaking up and coming back together never more than a day.

So I started dating him and we went immediately into this like hardcore pursuer distance or dynamic, like even worse than in my marriage. And that's not to say that we had a bad relationship, but like all the classic things, me texting too much, me looking for a relationship label way too soon, me wanting to know all of his romantic history so that I could figure out ways that I wouldn't mess up, and him working too much, dodging my phone calls, going out of town and not saying goodbye, and not you know, giving me any heads up about where he was. We were a mess, like a mess, A mess. Yeah, And we kept kind of being a mess and end breaking up and coming back together never more than a day.

People always ask that, like, oh, did you ever split up for three months? No.

People always ask that, like, oh, did you ever split up for three months? No.

We would have a fight or an argument and we would say, well, that's it. We just sucked together. We're in our thirties, we're not going to waste our time. And then twenty four hours.

We would have a fight or an argument and we would say, well, that's it. We just sucked together. We're in our thirties, we're not going to waste our time. And then twenty four hours.

Would go by and we would call again and be like, this is dumb. I don't want to not be you. I just don't want to have this argument. So instead of instead of.

Would go by and we would call again and be like, this is dumb. I don't want to not be you. I just don't want to have this argument. So instead of instead of.

Sitting him down and going you're an avoidant, and here's all the things that you need to do. I knew from my reading how bad that was, and I was like, you know what, screw it, I'm just going to spend the next like solid year working on myself, working on these things, reading all the books relating to the topics within anxious attachment, and seeing if I can do anything about that, because when we can change our own side of the dynamic, it changes the entire atmosphere of the relationship. And I thought, I don't want to leave this guy. I'm not ready for that, So I'm just going to work on myself and see what happens. And I got to tell you, a year and a half in to this work, he came to me and he sat down and he said, I don't know what's going on, but you're a completely different person than the person I met in the best way, and I want in. He's like, I don't know what you're doing with your time, and you're in all this weird reading, but like you're so calm and it feels so safe talking to you now, and you're not up and down with all your emotions. He's like, I don't know what you're doing, but let's do it. I want to figure out what's going on too. And then he started reading books with me and he would have talks with me about the relationship. So hopefully, hopefully that's very hopeful for people. He was the avoidantist of the avoidant that I've ever met. Yeah, and just by making myself a safe place to land, someone to talk to who's not accusing him of things or honestly, my reading about avoidant attachment helped a lot too, because then I was able to take the things that he was doing one hundred percent less personally.

Sitting him down and going you're an avoidant, and here's all the things that you need to do. I knew from my reading how bad that was, and I was like, you know what, screw it, I'm just going to spend the next like solid year working on myself, working on these things, reading all the books relating to the topics within anxious attachment, and seeing if I can do anything about that, because when we can change our own side of the dynamic, it changes the entire atmosphere of the relationship. And I thought, I don't want to leave this guy. I'm not ready for that, So I'm just going to work on myself and see what happens. And I got to tell you, a year and a half in to this work, he came to me and he sat down and he said, I don't know what's going on, but you're a completely different person than the person I met in the best way, and I want in. He's like, I don't know what you're doing with your time, and you're in all this weird reading, but like you're so calm and it feels so safe talking to you now, and you're not up and down with all your emotions. He's like, I don't know what you're doing, but let's do it. I want to figure out what's going on too. And then he started reading books with me and he would have talks with me about the relationship. So hopefully, hopefully that's very hopeful for people. He was the avoidantist of the avoidant that I've ever met. Yeah, and just by making myself a safe place to land, someone to talk to who's not accusing him of things or honestly, my reading about avoidant attachment helped a lot too, because then I was able to take the things that he was doing one hundred percent less personally.

Well, you just hit the big nail on the head, because I think as a person who's been anxious in certain relationships, and to me, what I'm also looking at now is like, and I don't know if you feel this way, but I don't feel anxious in all my relationship and so it was like, sure, starting to kind of recognize when it comes up for me, and it's typically like when there's an avoidant on the other side of that dynamic, it'll just happen. And so if I'm unaware, then I'm kind of just operating this constant trigger. But I like what you said about not personalizing it, because yes, the more I've learned about avoidant behavior too, I'm like, oh, it's their way to get to safety. I want to go connect and I want to talk it through, and I just want to get to the other side of it and know that we're good. They need to like retreat, and so it's that finding that balance.

Well, you just hit the big nail on the head, because I think as a person who's been anxious in certain relationships, and to me, what I'm also looking at now is like, and I don't know if you feel this way, but I don't feel anxious in all my relationship and so it was like, sure, starting to kind of recognize when it comes up for me, and it's typically like when there's an avoidant on the other side of that dynamic, it'll just happen. And so if I'm unaware, then I'm kind of just operating this constant trigger. But I like what you said about not personalizing it, because yes, the more I've learned about avoidant behavior too, I'm like, oh, it's their way to get to safety. I want to go connect and I want to talk it through, and I just want to get to the other side of it and know that we're good. They need to like retreat, and so it's that finding that balance.

But I want to.

But I want to.

Also ask because I feel like the thing that I struggle with the most in this is just the fine line between staying with yourself and not abandoning your own needs versus like being able to show up and respect another person's needs as well. We love that so different. So can you allow us to start navigation?

Also ask because I feel like the thing that I struggle with the most in this is just the fine line between staying with yourself and not abandoning your own needs versus like being able to show up and respect another person's needs as well. We love that so different. So can you allow us to start navigation?

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

Let's let's pick a really concrete example. Okay, let's pick so my partner, he loves to travel, and he loves little adventures, and sometimes his adventures. Oh, he's also very spontaneous, so sometimes he doesn't plan his adventures out. He just gets it in his head that he's going to go do something, especially if things are getting uncomfortable between us two, those are.

Let's let's pick a really concrete example. Okay, let's pick so my partner, he loves to travel, and he loves little adventures, and sometimes his adventures. Oh, he's also very spontaneous, so sometimes he doesn't plan his adventures out. He just gets it in his head that he's going to go do something, especially if things are getting uncomfortable between us two, those are.

The best times for him to adventure, right, because that's why it gets his distance.

The best times for him to adventure, right, because that's why it gets his distance.

Yeah, So I knew that if things were getting especially if they were really good, you know, like if we spent the whole weekend cuddling, that would be like a signal for his brain to get the head out of what is that.

Yeah, So I knew that if things were getting especially if they were really good, you know, like if we spent the whole weekend cuddling, that would be like a signal for his brain to get the head out of what is that.

I'm like the second, I start to feel good, where did you go?

I'm like the second, I start to feel good, where did you go?

Okay, So let's let's say that we've spent the entire weekend all snuggled up and it feels really great. We've been talking about our feelings, right, Oh man, that triggers them more than that.

Okay, So let's let's say that we've spent the entire weekend all snuggled up and it feels really great. We've been talking about our feelings, right, Oh man, that triggers them more than that.

Oh god.

Oh god.

So then and then Monday rolls around and his brain is like, get some distance, right, So, knowing a little bit about avoidant attachment, I figured it was coming right, like, all right, this was a good weekend.

So then and then Monday rolls around and his brain is like, get some distance, right, So, knowing a little bit about avoidant attachment, I figured it was coming right, like, all right, this was a good weekend.

He's going to want some distance now, and.

He's going to want some distance now, and.

I can if I call him on Monday and I'm like, hey, wasn't that a great weekend?

I can if I call him on Monday and I'm like, hey, wasn't that a great weekend?

Yeah?

Yeah?

It was.

It was.

I was like He's like, yeah, I'm just packing my stuff.

I was like He's like, yeah, I'm just packing my stuff.

I'm heading out. It's like cool.

I'm heading out. It's like cool.

It's like, hey, I love that you are getting out doing something that you love. Like that is so you like, go have an adventure. But and this is really scary. Brace yourselfs anxious hearts. This is not going to be fun to hear. I had to learn to set boundaries with him, like the moment you start feeling like you need to jet and take some adventure if you want to be with me and you want me to be happy and I think you do. You got to tell me, like, I can't be somebody who just calls you and you're gone for three days all of a sudden. And I was like, if that's what you wanted to do, if that's like who you are and who you want to be, Like, I'm okay with that, but it's not going to work for me in a romantic relationship, will be platonic buddies or nothing at all. If that's how it is. If you want me as your romantic partner, you just got to do that. And that's scary because a lot of people are listening to this going crap. I might have to let this person go because they might make the decision that they're like, not, I don't want to check in with someone, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to compromise and listen to somebody's boundaries. But honestly, like I'm telling you, I hate to sound callous, but you don't. You don't want to be with somebody who doesn't care about making you feel safe in a relationship.

It's like, hey, I love that you are getting out doing something that you love. Like that is so you like, go have an adventure. But and this is really scary. Brace yourselfs anxious hearts. This is not going to be fun to hear. I had to learn to set boundaries with him, like the moment you start feeling like you need to jet and take some adventure if you want to be with me and you want me to be happy and I think you do. You got to tell me, like, I can't be somebody who just calls you and you're gone for three days all of a sudden. And I was like, if that's what you wanted to do, if that's like who you are and who you want to be, Like, I'm okay with that, but it's not going to work for me in a romantic relationship, will be platonic buddies or nothing at all. If that's how it is. If you want me as your romantic partner, you just got to do that. And that's scary because a lot of people are listening to this going crap. I might have to let this person go because they might make the decision that they're like, not, I don't want to check in with someone, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to compromise and listen to somebody's boundaries. But honestly, like I'm telling you, I hate to sound callous, but you don't. You don't want to be with somebody who doesn't care about making you feel safe in a relationship.

Or maybe you don't want to. You can't. It's not sustainable.

Or maybe you don't want to. You can't. It's not sustainable.

I think that's exactly right. Well, I love the idea of the boundary setting because that's sort of that hits on the line that I was talking about, but totally like I hear what you're saying, and it's like, Okay, he would jet off and leave and that would be really hurtful and weird and give me kind of anxiety.

I think that's exactly right. Well, I love the idea of the boundary setting because that's sort of that hits on the line that I was talking about, but totally like I hear what you're saying, and it's like, Okay, he would jet off and leave and that would be really hurtful and weird and give me kind of anxiety.

Yeah, it all.

Yeah, it all.

It feels different than like if he was y'all got really close to he was like, oh I gotta go like cheat or something, which I've been.

It feels different than like if he was y'all got really close to he was like, oh I gotta go like cheat or something, which I've been.

That's different.

That's different.

Yeah, there's there's definitely lines, and I mean that was an extreme example maybe, but like you know.

Yeah, there's there's definitely lines, and I mean that was an extreme example maybe, but like you know.

Not really though not really a lot of a lot of people.

Not really though not really a lot of a lot of people.

Listening who Yeah, unfortunately, Oh I'm gonna hate myself for saying this, But sometimes avoidance are more likely to cheat because they're desperate to get that distance, and sometimes inserting another person into the situation is like an excellent way to do that.

Listening who Yeah, unfortunately, Oh I'm gonna hate myself for saying this, But sometimes avoidance are more likely to cheat because they're desperate to get that distance, and sometimes inserting another person into the situation is like an excellent way to do that.

So it's just a wall. Yeah, it's a wall. But that can be a boundary too though. That's like, no, it totally is deal breaking for me.

So it's just a wall. Yeah, it's a wall. But that can be a boundary too though. That's like, no, it totally is deal breaking for me.

Yes, as anxious attachers or even secure attachers, we have to be sure of what our what our boundary is and be willing to let somebody go who who can't fulfill that. If you are somebody who needs a message every day or a phone call every day and somebody is not willing to do that, we have to be willing to let that person go. If it's somebody who's not willing to give their little side partners up, we have to be willing to let that person go. If it's someone who's married who's not willing to get divorced to be with you, you have to be willing to let that person go.

Yes, as anxious attachers or even secure attachers, we have to be sure of what our what our boundary is and be willing to let somebody go who who can't fulfill that. If you are somebody who needs a message every day or a phone call every day and somebody is not willing to do that, we have to be willing to let that person go. If it's somebody who's not willing to give their little side partners up, we have to be willing to let that person go. If it's someone who's married who's not willing to get divorced to be with you, you have to be willing to let that person go.

Well. And the crazy thing is is, as I hear you say that, I would imagine a secure attacher would be.

Well. And the crazy thing is is, as I hear you say that, I would imagine a secure attacher would be.

Like dud duh, yeah, yeah, exactly, And I.

Like dud duh, yeah, yeah, exactly, And I.

Can relate to that now, like this is how I know I've grown in my life is because that is how I date.

Can relate to that now, like this is how I know I've grown in my life is because that is how I date.

Now, Yes, good, thank you, it's awesome.

Now, Yes, good, thank you, it's awesome.

But it's taken me really addressing why I was so scared to say, what like looking at well, what happens to me if they go like that was something that I couldn't even get to that question with myself because it would just ignite my nervous system so much at the thought of them leaving, even though the relationship could be terrible, like, yeah, good for me.

But it's taken me really addressing why I was so scared to say, what like looking at well, what happens to me if they go like that was something that I couldn't even get to that question with myself because it would just ignite my nervous system so much at the thought of them leaving, even though the relationship could be terrible, like, yeah, good for me.

I was miserable, but.

I was miserable, but.

The idea of them leaving felt so scary to me that I was like, no, we can work through this. Are like I can get another book or you know, okay, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

The idea of them leaving felt so scary to me that I was like, no, we can work through this. Are like I can get another book or you know, okay, yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

That let's dive into that too.

That let's dive into that too.

So so the fear, the fear for anxious attachers is that if we've got so much of our self worth and our identity tied up in that person, right, if they leave, we're gone. I always relate it to somebody who. I relate the anxious attachers to someone who can't swim, Like we're all hanging out in this ocean together, but the anxious attachers can't swim. We're we're holding on to people who we believe can swim, and if they swim away from us, we're drowning.

So so the fear, the fear for anxious attachers is that if we've got so much of our self worth and our identity tied up in that person, right, if they leave, we're gone. I always relate it to somebody who. I relate the anxious attachers to someone who can't swim, Like we're all hanging out in this ocean together, but the anxious attachers can't swim. We're we're holding on to people who we believe can swim, and if they swim away from us, we're drowning.

People are our.

People are our.

Lifeboats, and that's why we do anything that we can to keep holding onto them, because we literally feel like we may die if they if they leave us, you know, or at least are who we think we are.

Lifeboats, and that's why we do anything that we can to keep holding onto them, because we literally feel like we may die if they if they leave us, you know, or at least are who we think we are.

Will die, and that's terrifying. So I talk about this a lot in my book.

Will die, and that's terrifying. So I talk about this a lot in my book.

Our salvation here is learning how to swim and the way that we learn how to swim is that we spend a lot of time and energy building up an identity for ourselves that's separate from anybody else. That might ring true for you in your work on codependency right self forth is that's tough to talk about, but some concrete examples of ways that we build up self worth are exercise exercises is a fantastic way to.

Our salvation here is learning how to swim and the way that we learn how to swim is that we spend a lot of time and energy building up an identity for ourselves that's separate from anybody else. That might ring true for you in your work on codependency right self forth is that's tough to talk about, but some concrete examples of ways that we build up self worth are exercise exercises is a fantastic way to.

Spend a little bit of time every day showing ourselves that we are worth working on. Right.

Spend a little bit of time every day showing ourselves that we are worth working on. Right.

I just love it because it's concrete and you get you get to see actual results from it, so that part's nice. Self worth work could be spending extra time with friends and family, people that were sure care about us, They feel great to be around, they care about We know that they have our best interests at heart, so that's yeah, so that's nice. It can also be the work that we do journaling, like looking into ourselves. I always mentioned journaling, but if you're not a journaler, you can draw pictures, anything that you can do to ask yourself, what do I like, what do I need? What things feel good, what things don't feel good? Figuring out like kind of meeting yourself and figuring out who you are, gives yourself a very solid identity, and all those things help us swim so that if somebody else does decide to leave us, we know that we're still there treading water and we're okay.

I just love it because it's concrete and you get you get to see actual results from it, so that part's nice. Self worth work could be spending extra time with friends and family, people that were sure care about us, They feel great to be around, they care about We know that they have our best interests at heart, so that's yeah, so that's nice. It can also be the work that we do journaling, like looking into ourselves. I always mentioned journaling, but if you're not a journaler, you can draw pictures, anything that you can do to ask yourself, what do I like, what do I need? What things feel good, what things don't feel good? Figuring out like kind of meeting yourself and figuring out who you are, gives yourself a very solid identity, and all those things help us swim so that if somebody else does decide to leave us, we know that we're still there treading water and we're okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if you relate to this, but one of the main things that has helped me in the past couple of years is just realizing that I was getting into these relationships so focused on not being abandoned by my partner, but not realizing that the whole time, I was abandoning myself and so like my I was asking someone else to do for me something I wasn't willing or capable of doing for myself. And so the more that I've started to heal my personal relationship with myself and actually pay attention to myself, like not just go out and try to seek it through even work, I can find different activities to kind of like find my worth in, but actually just like sitting with myself, asking myself what I need, what I need, like literally giving.

I don't know if you relate to this, but one of the main things that has helped me in the past couple of years is just realizing that I was getting into these relationships so focused on not being abandoned by my partner, but not realizing that the whole time, I was abandoning myself and so like my I was asking someone else to do for me something I wasn't willing or capable of doing for myself. And so the more that I've started to heal my personal relationship with myself and actually pay attention to myself, like not just go out and try to seek it through even work, I can find different activities to kind of like find my worth in, but actually just like sitting with myself, asking myself what I need, what I need, like literally giving.

Myself a hug.

Myself a hug.

That I do this every morning, like I give myself love a hug and say I.

That I do this every morning, like I give myself love a hug and say I.

Love that I started doing that too. How awkward was it at first? Oh my god, I'm hugging myself. I feel so lame it was, But I don't know if you feel this.

Love that I started doing that too. How awkward was it at first? Oh my god, I'm hugging myself. I feel so lame it was, But I don't know if you feel this.

The second I do it, it's like I get tingles in my gut, Like it's like my body just wants to be acknowledged, you know. And so the more I fill up in those ways which sound would sound so frustrating to me back in the day when people would be like, oh, well, your self worth is just low, I'm like whatever, I like.

The second I do it, it's like I get tingles in my gut, Like it's like my body just wants to be acknowledged, you know. And so the more I fill up in those ways which sound would sound so frustrating to me back in the day when people would be like, oh, well, your self worth is just low, I'm like whatever, I like.

Yeah, so how do I right? Exactly?

Yeah, so how do I right? Exactly?

Like I didn't really realize the broken relationship with myself. And so anyway, the more that I've done that, the less weight relationships in general even have all my life, Like, yeah, it can kind of let people ebb and flower in relationship so far like that I've been dating again, it's like, great, people come in, but I do have a very like if this is what I need, and if you can't do this, not in a harsh way at all, in a very like loving the most surrendered way I've ever done it. And it's been interesting because people can kind of come in and out and I can respect their journey as well.

Like I didn't really realize the broken relationship with myself. And so anyway, the more that I've done that, the less weight relationships in general even have all my life, Like, yeah, it can kind of let people ebb and flower in relationship so far like that I've been dating again, it's like, great, people come in, but I do have a very like if this is what I need, and if you can't do this, not in a harsh way at all, in a very like loving the most surrendered way I've ever done it. And it's been interesting because people can kind of come in and out and I can respect their journey as well.

Yeah, isn't that freeing? Oh?

Yeah, isn't that freeing? Oh?

Oh, oh my God, the amount of time. Like the other thing I wanted to touch on is if you're listening and you're like, oh, I'm not codependent, because like that sounds pathetic, Like to me, anxious attachers sound desperate sometimes, and we are, but it's not like a person like it doesn't look like what you necess would think it would look like, Like.

Oh, oh my God, the amount of time. Like the other thing I wanted to touch on is if you're listening and you're like, oh, I'm not codependent, because like that sounds pathetic, Like to me, anxious attachers sound desperate sometimes, and we are, but it's not like a person like it doesn't look like what you necess would think it would look like, Like.

It totally doesn't. I'm telling yeah, go ahead.

It totally doesn't. I'm telling yeah, go ahead.

The folks who I knew in my life outside of my relationship were like, oh, Ricky, you're you're such a caring person. You're so great, Like clearly everybody that you're with or jerks, that's what's going on exactly right, Like they couldn't even see inside of it. How I didn't have any hobbies. I didn't have any desires or preferences. So it's like in their mind like that person's a jerk for not wanting to do the few little things that you like and want.

The folks who I knew in my life outside of my relationship were like, oh, Ricky, you're you're such a caring person. You're so great, Like clearly everybody that you're with or jerks, that's what's going on exactly right, Like they couldn't even see inside of it. How I didn't have any hobbies. I didn't have any desires or preferences. So it's like in their mind like that person's a jerk for not wanting to do the few little things that you like and want.

But I was like, I wasn't.

But I was like, I wasn't.

Telling all those people, like I'm not telling my person about anything that I want or need at all.

Telling all those people, like I'm not telling my person about anything that I want or need at all.

You know.

You know.

Yeah, so you're asking for your needs at all, but you're expecting them to meet them, not it.

Yeah, so you're asking for your needs at all, but you're expecting them to meet them, not it.

Yeah, And then being resentful when they don't and they don't even know about it.

Yeah, And then being resentful when they don't and they don't even know about it.

Yeah, right, that felt it kind of a tangent, but it was I'm sorry, it's all right. We got a little off topic there.

Yeah, right, that felt it kind of a tangent, but it was I'm sorry, it's all right. We got a little off topic there.

Well, I want to talk a little bit about because anxious attachers I do find well, like the way one of the ways I used to self soothe was like, I'm going to get the most information that.

Well, I want to talk a little bit about because anxious attachers I do find well, like the way one of the ways I used to self soothe was like, I'm going to get the most information that.

I possibly can about this.

I possibly can about this.

And you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that it's really important not to just go to someone and be like, well, you're avoidant.

And you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that it's really important not to just go to someone and be like, well, you're avoidant.

Clearly, it's incredibly important you will. You will push that person faster, You will push them away faster than if you send them thirty texts in a row if you're okay sitting them down and telling hey, and I did this to Chris, my poor partner.

Clearly, it's incredibly important you will. You will push that person faster, You will push them away faster than if you send them thirty texts in a row if you're okay sitting them down and telling hey, and I did this to Chris, my poor partner.

I did.

I did.

I did, at my worst time, sit him down and go, I know exactly what's wrong with you and exactly what you need to do to fix it, and if you want to be with me, you should fix that thing.

I did, at my worst time, sit him down and go, I know exactly what's wrong with you and exactly what you need to do to fix it, and if you want to be with me, you should fix that thing.

You can bet.

You can bet.

I did not get to hang out with him a lot after that. He was like, do I even like this person who's telling me all the things that are wrong with me.

I did not get to hang out with him a lot after that. He was like, do I even like this person who's telling me all the things that are wrong with me.

Okay, so it's that's why it because it just feels like you're telling someone. Oh yeah, it's so interesting because in my head, if I was ever doing that, the only motivation for me is to save the relationship.

Okay, so it's that's why it because it just feels like you're telling someone. Oh yeah, it's so interesting because in my head, if I was ever doing that, the only motivation for me is to save the relationship.

I'm like, oh, for sure it was. I don't get me wrong.

I'm like, oh, for sure it was. I don't get me wrong.

Yeah, I didn't feel like I was criticizing him. I was like, I'm here to save you, you know. But to him, he was like, holy cow, thanks for telling me all the ways I'm defective.

Yeah, I didn't feel like I was criticizing him. I was like, I'm here to save you, you know. But to him, he was like, holy cow, thanks for telling me all the ways I'm defective.

And yeah, and honestly I try to tell people too.

And yeah, and honestly I try to tell people too.

How would you like it if you in a state where you're not feeling very self aware, had somebody sit you down and say, I've pinpointed exactly what's wrong with you and why you're unlovable, and here are all the things that you need to do to make someone love you.

How would you like it if you in a state where you're not feeling very self aware, had somebody sit you down and say, I've pinpointed exactly what's wrong with you and why you're unlovable, and here are all the things that you need to do to make someone love you.

Like, yeah, that would feel very good. No, it doesn't feel good at all.

Like, yeah, that would feel very good. No, it doesn't feel good at all.

We have words every month on the podcast that's kind of the themes, and our word this month is metamorphosis. So you know that obviously, just to me, looks like evolution change what you can grow into. And I like that topic with this topic kind of like what you said at the beginning of just like finding the hope in this and that it can happen. So let's move into that a little bit about just kind of how we can, if we do identify with either anxious or avoidant, how we can move into more secure attachment and maybe some tips or just even like what the journey looks like, because I know it's not good every day, right, I know you guys.

We have words every month on the podcast that's kind of the themes, and our word this month is metamorphosis. So you know that obviously, just to me, looks like evolution change what you can grow into. And I like that topic with this topic kind of like what you said at the beginning of just like finding the hope in this and that it can happen. So let's move into that a little bit about just kind of how we can, if we do identify with either anxious or avoidant, how we can move into more secure attachment and maybe some tips or just even like what the journey looks like, because I know it's not good every day, right, I know you guys.

Have it's certainly not a workable situation.

Have it's certainly not a workable situation.

But maybe talk through some of the tools that really help you in your relationship.

But maybe talk through some of the tools that really help you in your relationship.

Yeah, totally. So finding the self and diving into yourself is it's scary work for anxious attachers because we worry that anytime that we turn the focus back to ourselves, we're creating disconnect between ourselves and our partner. And that's it's it's strangely the opposite. I hate to say that too, because they're like, I know I'm losing people right now. The time that I spend in my room working on my journaling is time that I'm not texting my partner. It's time that I'm not nagging him for more togetherness. And so not only am I building up my own identity that was lacking. It gives him time to miss me, and that's the kind of thing that makes him initiate. That's when I get the phone call like, hey, you want to go hiking. Hey, I've been thinking about you. So the time that we spend nurturing ourselves and building our own identity is time that actually brings an avoidant type partner.

Yeah, totally. So finding the self and diving into yourself is it's scary work for anxious attachers because we worry that anytime that we turn the focus back to ourselves, we're creating disconnect between ourselves and our partner. And that's it's it's strangely the opposite. I hate to say that too, because they're like, I know I'm losing people right now. The time that I spend in my room working on my journaling is time that I'm not texting my partner. It's time that I'm not nagging him for more togetherness. And so not only am I building up my own identity that was lacking. It gives him time to miss me, and that's the kind of thing that makes him initiate. That's when I get the phone call like, hey, you want to go hiking. Hey, I've been thinking about you. So the time that we spend nurturing ourselves and building our own identity is time that actually brings an avoidant type partner.

It makes them.

It makes them.

Feel safer to approach us. And I know not everybody here is probably paired with an avoidant type, but it works the same for our secure partners too. Anxious hearts can tend to overwhelm secure partners as well. So anything that we do like Okay, I'm going to join a new gym and make a to do that every Tuesday, that time on Tuesday where we're doing our own thing is it's safety building with our partner. They can see that we're our own person, and that builds a little bit of intrigue and curiosity and makes them want to approach us and come close and feel safe to do that. We're not the drowning person anymore who's looking at people as lifeboats. We're sitting swimming on our own and it makes other people feel good and safe to come close.

Feel safer to approach us. And I know not everybody here is probably paired with an avoidant type, but it works the same for our secure partners too. Anxious hearts can tend to overwhelm secure partners as well. So anything that we do like Okay, I'm going to join a new gym and make a to do that every Tuesday, that time on Tuesday where we're doing our own thing is it's safety building with our partner. They can see that we're our own person, and that builds a little bit of intrigue and curiosity and makes them want to approach us and come close and feel safe to do that. We're not the drowning person anymore who's looking at people as lifeboats. We're sitting swimming on our own and it makes other people feel good and safe to come close.

So this is where I hear that fine line thing again though, and I just it just dawned on me of like, okay, well, this is where you would set boundaries because doing that, focusing on yourself and actually having the intention to connect with yourself. Because I also can be guilty, or it was guilty in the past, of being like I'm going to go do this and see if it makes them you know.

So this is where I hear that fine line thing again though, and I just it just dawned on me of like, okay, well, this is where you would set boundaries because doing that, focusing on yourself and actually having the intention to connect with yourself. Because I also can be guilty, or it was guilty in the past, of being like I'm going to go do this and see if it makes them you know.

Yes, yes, okay, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, it cannot be a tactic to bring somebody close. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to give everybody home that Like you're worried about the disconnect, but that's actually the kind of thing.

Yes, yes, okay, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, it cannot be a tactic to bring somebody close. I'm just trying to I'm just trying to give everybody home that Like you're worried about the disconnect, but that's actually the kind of thing.

Yeah, that makes people feel safer to come close.

Yeah, that makes people feel safer to come close.

If your intention is to do it to bring to make them come closer, they will feel that.

If your intention is to do it to bring to make them come closer, they will feel that.

They will smell it like a dog, right, and it will work.

They will smell it like a dog, right, and it will work.

No, So make sure that the thing that you're doing is not purposely try Look how independent I am.

No, So make sure that the thing that you're doing is not purposely try Look how independent I am.

I don't know you like that. It's got to be a genuine desire to connect with yourself.

I don't know you like that. It's got to be a genuine desire to connect with yourself.

And for me, yes, for me, it's a surrender too. It's like, stop trying to think that the only way you can find peace in this world is if this partner comes to you right this minute and the way you want him to and at the exact time, Like I think, then you do miss out on the good stuff and relationships a lot of times totally. But then, so what if, for instance, like I have a friend in a situation where she is a big texter and wants to text more and so her needs are not necessarily getting met with her avoidant partner, and it similar to what you said earlier. You're mad, you're resentful, you're whatever. So how what is a good way to ask for what you need? Like I've suggested, it would really mean a lot to me to connect in the morning and before we go to bed or something like be specific. But do you have any input on that kind of thing?

And for me, yes, for me, it's a surrender too. It's like, stop trying to think that the only way you can find peace in this world is if this partner comes to you right this minute and the way you want him to and at the exact time, Like I think, then you do miss out on the good stuff and relationships a lot of times totally. But then, so what if, for instance, like I have a friend in a situation where she is a big texter and wants to text more and so her needs are not necessarily getting met with her avoidant partner, and it similar to what you said earlier. You're mad, you're resentful, you're whatever. So how what is a good way to ask for what you need? Like I've suggested, it would really mean a lot to me to connect in the morning and before we go to bed or something like be specific. But do you have any input on that kind of thing?

Yeah, I totally do.

Yeah, I totally do.

Directness and vulnerability are the two tools that you want when you're trying to make what feels like a difficult ask to your partner. Directness meaning we don't want any hinting, We don't want you asking for less than what you actually want. Figure out exactly like your friend would figure out exactly what kind of frequency of texting would feel good to her.

Directness and vulnerability are the two tools that you want when you're trying to make what feels like a difficult ask to your partner. Directness meaning we don't want any hinting, We don't want you asking for less than what you actually want. Figure out exactly like your friend would figure out exactly what kind of frequency of texting would feel good to her.

And she needs to be super direct about that.

And she needs to be super direct about that.

Yeah, instead of just this is exactly what I need, because that might not be received well either.

Yeah, instead of just this is exactly what I need, because that might not be received well either.

Vulnerability can cushion that blow a little bit too.

Vulnerability can cushion that blow a little bit too.

Okay, it feels it feels like kind of kind of unsafe and creddy for me when my phone is just sitting there there's no message. I know that you're able to text me like sometimes that makes me feel afraid, and it also makes me wonder, like, man, is this the kind of relationship that's gonna feel good for me long term? I know that you want that for me because you clearly care about me. So what do you think about a texting frequency you know of this? What do you think how would that work for you? Get curious about their situation too. Maybe there's a reason that they don't that they don't text that much. That's different from just they hate you and don't want you to get your needs messed, you know. So let's add curiosity into that directness. Vulnerability and curiosity are your tools for those difficult asks.

Okay, it feels it feels like kind of kind of unsafe and creddy for me when my phone is just sitting there there's no message. I know that you're able to text me like sometimes that makes me feel afraid, and it also makes me wonder, like, man, is this the kind of relationship that's gonna feel good for me long term? I know that you want that for me because you clearly care about me. So what do you think about a texting frequency you know of this? What do you think how would that work for you? Get curious about their situation too. Maybe there's a reason that they don't that they don't text that much. That's different from just they hate you and don't want you to get your needs messed, you know. So let's add curiosity into that directness. Vulnerability and curiosity are your tools for those difficult asks.

How important is it for you and your partner to have to equally have awareness about your own attachment styles?

How important is it for you and your partner to have to equally have awareness about your own attachment styles?

Because yeah, like.

Because yeah, like.

Yours are set what do you wait, it's zero percent important for us to have anywhere close to the same.

Yours are set what do you wait, it's zero percent important for us to have anywhere close to the same.

I just had to interject with that, what do you tell me?

I just had to interject with that, what do you tell me?

Yeah, I think a lot of people think this stuff's not going to work unless both of us know exactly what's up and we're both putting the exact same effort.

Yeah, I think a lot of people think this stuff's not going to work unless both of us know exactly what's up and we're both putting the exact same effort.

I want to say.

I want to say.

I mean, especially with the work that I do, I'm focusing on this stuff like ninety percent of the time, like way more than normal people are focusing on this stuff. My partner gets exposed to it a lot because of what I do, but I would say he's at like a ten or of fifteen percent work level with this stuff. It's very low. So I think if you like attachment theory, if you like the idea of self work, that is awesome, strap on your your diving cap and dive in as deep as you want. You don't need to expect your partner to do the same thing. Because your work in that atmosphere, your work and that area, is going to change the atmosphere of the relationship, and if it doesn't, you might be with the wrong person. Because my partner doesn't know very much at all about attachment theory. But he does care about the things that I need and want, So when I express those, he's pretty darn good about listening.

I mean, especially with the work that I do, I'm focusing on this stuff like ninety percent of the time, like way more than normal people are focusing on this stuff. My partner gets exposed to it a lot because of what I do, but I would say he's at like a ten or of fifteen percent work level with this stuff. It's very low. So I think if you like attachment theory, if you like the idea of self work, that is awesome, strap on your your diving cap and dive in as deep as you want. You don't need to expect your partner to do the same thing. Because your work in that atmosphere, your work and that area, is going to change the atmosphere of the relationship, and if it doesn't, you might be with the wrong person. Because my partner doesn't know very much at all about attachment theory. But he does care about the things that I need and want, So when I express those, he's pretty darn good about listening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when you're expressing your needs, your boundaries, and you're staying curious and all the things you've already told us, you're finding that you're getting a positive response.

So when you're expressing your needs, your boundaries, and you're staying curious and all the things you've already told us, you're finding that you're getting a positive response.

Yes, And that doesn't mean that he does those things. Okay, So that okay, that's good. Like, let's see some realistic expectations for people. My partner does not text. It's not a thing for him. He's over forty. He hates technology. Right, it's not going to happen. And he told me that very early in the relationship, just like I hate texting. That's something you got to know about me right up front. So sometimes, so if I were to come to him four years in and I could, I could come to him and say, look, Chris, I really want more texting between us. That would feel so good for me. Sometimes I feel the same scripts Sometimes I feel alone when there's no.

Yes, And that doesn't mean that he does those things. Okay, So that okay, that's good. Like, let's see some realistic expectations for people. My partner does not text. It's not a thing for him. He's over forty. He hates technology. Right, it's not going to happen. And he told me that very early in the relationship, just like I hate texting. That's something you got to know about me right up front. So sometimes, so if I were to come to him four years in and I could, I could come to him and say, look, Chris, I really want more texting between us. That would feel so good for me. Sometimes I feel the same scripts Sometimes I feel alone when there's no.

Text coming in.

Text coming in.

Right, it doesn't mean that he abandons who he is, which is someone who hates technology and is very confident that they want nothing to.

Right, it doesn't mean that he abandons who he is, which is someone who hates technology and is very confident that they want nothing to.