Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

A'maa Altai is a leading holistic business and career coach who has worked with companies like Google, Deloitte, and Roku and more. She's here today to share her expertise on creating a new paradigm of success and satisfaction with us. I'm so excited about this.

A'maa Altai is a leading holistic business and career coach who has worked with companies like Google, Deloitte, and Roku and more. She's here today to share her expertise on creating a new paradigm of success and satisfaction with us. I'm so excited about this.

Hi amana, Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Hi amana, Hi, thank you so much for having me.

So I was telling you before the podcast, as we wrap up twenty twenty four, I find that I'm always looking back kind of you know, you're reevaluating. You don't always have time to do that during the year, and so this seems like December is kind of the time where we look back on the last year and go what did I like? What didn't I like? And obviously like career and business and all of that really comes into play here a lot, and I know a lot of us are also feeling tired at the end of the year. There's the burnout. So I want to touch on all those topics. But if people are looking back at their year and they're thinking, God, I really kind of messed that part up. I found it really interesting in your work that you say fail fast and often, and that's actually a key to a successful business life. So what do you mean by that, fail fast and fail often?

So I was telling you before the podcast, as we wrap up twenty twenty four, I find that I'm always looking back kind of you know, you're reevaluating. You don't always have time to do that during the year, and so this seems like December is kind of the time where we look back on the last year and go what did I like? What didn't I like? And obviously like career and business and all of that really comes into play here a lot, and I know a lot of us are also feeling tired at the end of the year. There's the burnout. So I want to touch on all those topics. But if people are looking back at their year and they're thinking, God, I really kind of messed that part up. I found it really interesting in your work that you say fail fast and often, and that's actually a key to a successful business life. So what do you mean by that, fail fast and fail often?

So I also love to invite people into celebrations too, because our brains evolved with the negativity bias, so it's way easier for our brains to hyper focus on the negative than it is to find the positive. So we may be arriving at the end of the year and think, oh, well, I missed the mark there, but chances are you probably did a lot of good too. So the first thing I always invite people to think about before they even start to think about the next year, is celebrating where you really brought it this year, because celebrations are so important and it boosts mood and dopamine and creativity and all the things. But so few of us actually start in the celebration space. So I highly invite people to do that and then fail fast and often. So that's a doctrine that I hear a lot in the entrepreneurial and leadership spaces, and I think that it's a wonderful idea, but I don't think it's actually supportive for everybody. So I think people with more dominant identities, it's kind of safer to like fail fast and often it's okay to miss the mark. But for a lot of women, for example, when we miss the mark, we get feedback in a much more insidious way, so it doesn't always feel safe to fail fast and often. So I'm a big proponent of the eighty percent rule of going out at eighty percent, so not waiting for things to be one hundred percent perfect, but you've done your research, you've got some data, you've shaped things to a certain degree, and then there's still a little gap there where you can get feedback from people and make it even better. So I'm not a huge fan of the fail fasten off because I don't think it works for everybody. But I love the idea of going out at eighty percent.

So I also love to invite people into celebrations too, because our brains evolved with the negativity bias, so it's way easier for our brains to hyper focus on the negative than it is to find the positive. So we may be arriving at the end of the year and think, oh, well, I missed the mark there, but chances are you probably did a lot of good too. So the first thing I always invite people to think about before they even start to think about the next year, is celebrating where you really brought it this year, because celebrations are so important and it boosts mood and dopamine and creativity and all the things. But so few of us actually start in the celebration space. So I highly invite people to do that and then fail fast and often. So that's a doctrine that I hear a lot in the entrepreneurial and leadership spaces, and I think that it's a wonderful idea, but I don't think it's actually supportive for everybody. So I think people with more dominant identities, it's kind of safer to like fail fast and often it's okay to miss the mark. But for a lot of women, for example, when we miss the mark, we get feedback in a much more insidious way, so it doesn't always feel safe to fail fast and often. So I'm a big proponent of the eighty percent rule of going out at eighty percent, so not waiting for things to be one hundred percent perfect, but you've done your research, you've got some data, you've shaped things to a certain degree, and then there's still a little gap there where you can get feedback from people and make it even better. So I'm not a huge fan of the fail fasten off because I don't think it works for everybody. But I love the idea of going out at eighty percent.

Okay, So that eighty twenty rule. That's kind of what I do with my diet. It's like I try to eat like clean, gluten free, dairy free, all of those things, and it makes me feel better to do that, but I don't get it one hundred percent ride or when you're eating out, you know, sometimes there's just going to be things and it does help to kind of tell your brain it's okay, like I'm doing eighty percent well, and the twenty percent it's just kind of life and being a human one hundred percent.

Okay, So that eighty twenty rule. That's kind of what I do with my diet. It's like I try to eat like clean, gluten free, dairy free, all of those things, and it makes me feel better to do that, but I don't get it one hundred percent ride or when you're eating out, you know, sometimes there's just going to be things and it does help to kind of tell your brain it's okay, like I'm doing eighty percent well, and the twenty percent it's just kind of life and being a human one hundred percent.

The twenty percent is life being a human, it's data and it's never anything to punish ourselves over.

The twenty percent is life being a human, it's data and it's never anything to punish ourselves over.

So that kind of ties into perfectionism a little bit. And I love this connection of thinking back through where you might feel a little bit impostor like I've never thought about this, but I was reading my notes and kind of doing research on you, and something that I've read about you was that you often say whenever we feel the imposter syndrome, it can push us into perfectionism. And then I started kind of retracing where my perfectionism really comes up in my job, and it is typically where I feel a little bit like how did I get here?

So that kind of ties into perfectionism a little bit. And I love this connection of thinking back through where you might feel a little bit impostor like I've never thought about this, but I was reading my notes and kind of doing research on you, and something that I've read about you was that you often say whenever we feel the imposter syndrome, it can push us into perfectionism. And then I started kind of retracing where my perfectionism really comes up in my job, and it is typically where I feel a little bit like how did I get here?

What am I doing? You know?

What am I doing? You know?

Like you know, which I think we all feel at all times, even the top executives feel that way. So what if the tie from perfectionism to imposter syndrome?

Like you know, which I think we all feel at all times, even the top executives feel that way. So what if the tie from perfectionism to imposter syndrome?

Yeah, that's a great question. So doctor Valery Young, who studied imposter syndrome, came up with five archetypes, and one of them is the perfectionist. So when we feel imposter syndrome, it's off because we're walking into a space or we're in an industry where we don't see a lot of people that look like us. So we look around the room, we don't see people that have you know, our women, or our people of color, whatever your identity is, and so then all of a sudden, you're like, I don't belong. So in order to feel like I belong, I have to over rotate and be perfect so I can belong and be accepted. But then we're living in a performance and we usually take ourselves out because of it. But I also think that there's something really interesting to add into the conversation here. So there were these really great articles on imposter syndrome on Harvard Business Review a couple of years back by Rushia Kotulcian and Jody Ane Bury, and they talked about the title of the article was stop telling women that they have imposter syndrome. And I loved this so much because the essence of the article was, we're basically pathologizing a very typical set of behaviors, such as fear or doubt. It's very typical to feel fear. It's very typical to doubt yourself, but we're pathologizing them, particularly around women, and making them a syndrome, and then we're like, oh my god, there's something wrong with me. So instead, I think it's really important that we just start to work with the fear.

Yeah, that's a great question. So doctor Valery Young, who studied imposter syndrome, came up with five archetypes, and one of them is the perfectionist. So when we feel imposter syndrome, it's off because we're walking into a space or we're in an industry where we don't see a lot of people that look like us. So we look around the room, we don't see people that have you know, our women, or our people of color, whatever your identity is, and so then all of a sudden, you're like, I don't belong. So in order to feel like I belong, I have to over rotate and be perfect so I can belong and be accepted. But then we're living in a performance and we usually take ourselves out because of it. But I also think that there's something really interesting to add into the conversation here. So there were these really great articles on imposter syndrome on Harvard Business Review a couple of years back by Rushia Kotulcian and Jody Ane Bury, and they talked about the title of the article was stop telling women that they have imposter syndrome. And I loved this so much because the essence of the article was, we're basically pathologizing a very typical set of behaviors, such as fear or doubt. It's very typical to feel fear. It's very typical to doubt yourself, but we're pathologizing them, particularly around women, and making them a syndrome, and then we're like, oh my god, there's something wrong with me. So instead, I think it's really important that we just start to work with the fear.

Right.

Right.

So, if we're in a space of fear, if we're feeling imposter syndrome and it's driving us the perfectionism, what's the fear story there? What are we telling ourselves about what our work or what we can contribute, or our sense of belonging. Where did we first learn that fear of that story? Can we reframe that and actually choose a different way moving forward?

So, if we're in a space of fear, if we're feeling imposter syndrome and it's driving us the perfectionism, what's the fear story there? What are we telling ourselves about what our work or what we can contribute, or our sense of belonging. Where did we first learn that fear of that story? Can we reframe that and actually choose a different way moving forward?

You know, what's so interesting about a poster syndrome to me is that we just have this expectation of ourselves a lot of times that we should just know how to do everything. I'm not sure exactly where that comes from, but I do think that's interesting to take a look back into your life and think where did this start? Where did this narrative start? Because a lot of times I'm sure it developed. I'm sure it's some family system thing, or you know, like everything else is linked back to how we grew up in our childhood. But I do think it's really interesting that more women may face this than men, and that is just sort of that entitlement that comes from being a man. You are expected to go out and you feel like you're deserving of things, whereas women seem to have more of this expectation of maybe I can get this, or maybe I don't deserve this, no other woman has been there before, and so you're trying to carve your own way. And then but then we turn on ourselves and act like we should know how to do that one hundred percent.

You know, what's so interesting about a poster syndrome to me is that we just have this expectation of ourselves a lot of times that we should just know how to do everything. I'm not sure exactly where that comes from, but I do think that's interesting to take a look back into your life and think where did this start? Where did this narrative start? Because a lot of times I'm sure it developed. I'm sure it's some family system thing, or you know, like everything else is linked back to how we grew up in our childhood. But I do think it's really interesting that more women may face this than men, and that is just sort of that entitlement that comes from being a man. You are expected to go out and you feel like you're deserving of things, whereas women seem to have more of this expectation of maybe I can get this, or maybe I don't deserve this, no other woman has been there before, and so you're trying to carve your own way. And then but then we turn on ourselves and act like we should know how to do that one hundred percent.

You're right. It's kind of a double bind. And it's so interesting because so this the term imposter syndrome, it was actually called impost phenomenon originally was coined in the sixties or seventies, I believe, and it was by Pauline Clanton Suzanne i'ms And they were studying female PhD students, and so they were a plethora of male PhD students and only a handful of female PhD students, and so they were all like, well, I don't belong here. I don't see people that look like me. And so that's why representation is so important because it can help us shift that story as well. But you're right, so much of it starts in family systems and in childhood and the moment where we feel like we're not good enough, and then we replicate that everywhere until we heal that initial wound.

You're right. It's kind of a double bind. And it's so interesting because so this the term imposter syndrome, it was actually called impost phenomenon originally was coined in the sixties or seventies, I believe, and it was by Pauline Clanton Suzanne i'ms And they were studying female PhD students, and so they were a plethora of male PhD students and only a handful of female PhD students, and so they were all like, well, I don't belong here. I don't see people that look like me. And so that's why representation is so important because it can help us shift that story as well. But you're right, so much of it starts in family systems and in childhood and the moment where we feel like we're not good enough, and then we replicate that everywhere until we heal that initial wound.

So that's the symptom.

So that's the symptom.

But what do we do about that if we're finding ourselves stuck in this perfectionism or if you're looking back on your year like we just talked about, and you were like beating yourself up the whole time, or you're doing that when you're even evaluating, Do you have any tips to overcome these kind of mentalities?

But what do we do about that if we're finding ourselves stuck in this perfectionism or if you're looking back on your year like we just talked about, and you were like beating yourself up the whole time, or you're doing that when you're even evaluating, Do you have any tips to overcome these kind of mentalities?

Yes, So honestly, looking back to see where the story originated is so important because by doing that, you're going to have an awareness around it. So you're like, Okay, this happened in this moment in childhood when I raise my hand in class, I didn't know the answer. Everybody laughed at me, and therefore I felt like I was a total imposter. And now every time I feel like I need to know the answer, that actually happened to a client of mine. And so that's the story, right, And then what does that little version of you need to feel whole, So maybe you need to do some inner child work, maybe that little version of you needs to feel more loved, more safe, whatever it is. And then can you also come up with a reframe of I'm allowed to be perfectly imperfect. Everybody's perfectly imperfect and that's how we learn. So what's your reframe? And then the third thing I'll say is practice being perfectly imperfect, because everything is like a rep that we do at the gym, right, we build strength one rep at a time, We rewire our brains around the perfectionism one rep at a time too, So how can you being perfectly imperfect? And maybe in the beginning it's something that you need to do with your friends or family or in those safer spaces before you feel comfortable doing it out in the world, But we need to practice.

Yes, So honestly, looking back to see where the story originated is so important because by doing that, you're going to have an awareness around it. So you're like, Okay, this happened in this moment in childhood when I raise my hand in class, I didn't know the answer. Everybody laughed at me, and therefore I felt like I was a total imposter. And now every time I feel like I need to know the answer, that actually happened to a client of mine. And so that's the story, right, And then what does that little version of you need to feel whole, So maybe you need to do some inner child work, maybe that little version of you needs to feel more loved, more safe, whatever it is. And then can you also come up with a reframe of I'm allowed to be perfectly imperfect. Everybody's perfectly imperfect and that's how we learn. So what's your reframe? And then the third thing I'll say is practice being perfectly imperfect, because everything is like a rep that we do at the gym, right, we build strength one rep at a time, We rewire our brains around the perfectionism one rep at a time too, So how can you being perfectly imperfect? And maybe in the beginning it's something that you need to do with your friends or family or in those safer spaces before you feel comfortable doing it out in the world, But we need to practice.

I love that you're bringing that topic, you know, even bringing up inner child work as it relates to business, because I find that we talk about those kind of things and even those kind of therapy modalities as these ways to exist in relationship, and I always typically go to oh my love relationships or even sometimes friendships, but mostly I think we put a lot of the emphasis on our love relationships there. And what I'm finding is the more I get into any kind of work on myself, or maybe it's the older I get, or the combination of both, all of the things that I do exist across the board. So if they exist in my romantic relationships, then they exist in my work world as well. And it's all the same mentalities and they're all connected. So I love that looking back even to analyze how your business patterns and you know, mentalities can start in even childhood.

I love that you're bringing that topic, you know, even bringing up inner child work as it relates to business, because I find that we talk about those kind of things and even those kind of therapy modalities as these ways to exist in relationship, and I always typically go to oh my love relationships or even sometimes friendships, but mostly I think we put a lot of the emphasis on our love relationships there. And what I'm finding is the more I get into any kind of work on myself, or maybe it's the older I get, or the combination of both, all of the things that I do exist across the board. So if they exist in my romantic relationships, then they exist in my work world as well. And it's all the same mentalities and they're all connected. So I love that looking back even to analyze how your business patterns and you know, mentalities can start in even childhood.

One percent, because everywhere we go exactly what you said, everywhere we go there we are right. So you are going to be Kelly at work, You're going to be Kelly at home, and then we transfer those behaviors to every room and space that we're in. And so I always say to my clients, I'm like, I think we meet our shadows more at work in entrepreneurship than most other places. So get ready to do the inner child work, the shadow work, all of it.

One percent, because everywhere we go exactly what you said, everywhere we go there we are right. So you are going to be Kelly at work, You're going to be Kelly at home, and then we transfer those behaviors to every room and space that we're in. And so I always say to my clients, I'm like, I think we meet our shadows more at work in entrepreneurship than most other places. So get ready to do the inner child work, the shadow work, all of it.

Why do you think that Why do you think it comes up the most in that kind of work.

Why do you think that Why do you think it comes up the most in that kind of work.

I think entrepreneurship, especially at any place that we want to grow and advance and unfold, it's confronting because to really grow, advance and unfold, you have to look at the parts of yourself that are hidden.

I think entrepreneurship, especially at any place that we want to grow and advance and unfold, it's confronting because to really grow, advance and unfold, you have to look at the parts of yourself that are hidden.

Well, I've been talking a lot about burnout. That's something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I just completely hit the wall, like it was just too much. Everything I was trying to do. It kind of almost collapsed in a way because I had reached the point where I humanly could not show up anymore for all the expectations I had put on myself. So I talk about this a lot, and you know, there's the big girl Boss movement and all of that, and I'm just over it, Like I've just really we really reached this place of like why are we doing that to ourselves? Because it's really unattainable. For one and two, it's actually doesn't feel healthy like this. You know, I can do everything in all things, like, of course, I want you to believe in yourself, but what about that pressure that we're putting on ourselves to show up as this perfect human at all times? What do you think about the girl Boss movement in general? And then what are you seeing in terms of your clients maybe hitting this place of burnout because of these expectations we've put on ourselves. What do you think about the girl boss movement in general? And then what are you seeing in terms of your clients maybe hitting this place of burnout because of these expectations we've put on ourselves.

Well, I've been talking a lot about burnout. That's something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I just completely hit the wall, like it was just too much. Everything I was trying to do. It kind of almost collapsed in a way because I had reached the point where I humanly could not show up anymore for all the expectations I had put on myself. So I talk about this a lot, and you know, there's the big girl Boss movement and all of that, and I'm just over it, Like I've just really we really reached this place of like why are we doing that to ourselves? Because it's really unattainable. For one and two, it's actually doesn't feel healthy like this. You know, I can do everything in all things, like, of course, I want you to believe in yourself, but what about that pressure that we're putting on ourselves to show up as this perfect human at all times? What do you think about the girl Boss movement in general? And then what are you seeing in terms of your clients maybe hitting this place of burnout because of these expectations we've put on ourselves. What do you think about the girl boss movement in general? And then what are you seeing in terms of your clients maybe hitting this place of burnout because of these expectations we've put on ourselves.

Yeah, these are beautiful questions. So I'm antie girl boss, hustle culture movements.

Yeah, these are beautiful questions. So I'm antie girl boss, hustle culture movements.

Okay, good, I'm not the only one.

Okay, good, I'm not the only one.

We know, we're we're in this together. Yeah, And I understand how it came to be. You know, there was probably a time where I was probably living into some of those girl boss traits too. I think for so much of the time when you're kind of like pushed down and you can't be in leadership, or there's not as many female entrepreneurs when it's our moment where like, oh, I'm going to over rotate and I'm going to overdo. And I think that there was like kind of a cultural moment where it was sort of like the rise of the girl brass and the tech bros together. It was like post the two thousand and eight recession, Like there was a lot of cultural factors that went into it. But I think it ended up being deeply toxic for everybody, and we ended up harming ourselves and other people to quote unquote get ahead. And so I think that there is a way to get ahead that actually is supportive of everybody. And you know, we see data nowadays where people are reporting rates of burnout. Anywhere between seventy and eighty percent of us are burned out depending on the data that you're reading, which is wild, right, And I think so much of it is because instrumentalizing our bodies, trying to get every last drop of productivity out of them, because we associate our value in our worthiness there. And then I also think that a lot of us are working outside of ours zone of genius, and I think that's a big part of the conversation too. But I would also be remiss if I didn't mention that women, people with uteruses, we have a higher propensity for burnout because of our hormones. So that's a part of the conversation too, unfortunately.

We know, we're we're in this together. Yeah, And I understand how it came to be. You know, there was probably a time where I was probably living into some of those girl boss traits too. I think for so much of the time when you're kind of like pushed down and you can't be in leadership, or there's not as many female entrepreneurs when it's our moment where like, oh, I'm going to over rotate and I'm going to overdo. And I think that there was like kind of a cultural moment where it was sort of like the rise of the girl brass and the tech bros together. It was like post the two thousand and eight recession, Like there was a lot of cultural factors that went into it. But I think it ended up being deeply toxic for everybody, and we ended up harming ourselves and other people to quote unquote get ahead. And so I think that there is a way to get ahead that actually is supportive of everybody. And you know, we see data nowadays where people are reporting rates of burnout. Anywhere between seventy and eighty percent of us are burned out depending on the data that you're reading, which is wild, right, And I think so much of it is because instrumentalizing our bodies, trying to get every last drop of productivity out of them, because we associate our value in our worthiness there. And then I also think that a lot of us are working outside of ours zone of genius, and I think that's a big part of the conversation too. But I would also be remiss if I didn't mention that women, people with uteruses, we have a higher propensity for burnout because of our hormones. So that's a part of the conversation too, unfortunately.

Yeah, And I want to say with that because I think that can be kind of demonized or looked down on, and that's not the case. It's like, I think we have to really talk about our bodies in a different way because sure, men may have a higher rate of being able to be productive consistently. But it's different. I think it's just different. And that's the big part of that hormonal conversation that I really don't want to miss because although yes, our hormones are different every day, it also opens us up to being able to see the world through its completely different lens that you wouldn't be able to do if you had similar things every single day. So it's to me about figuring out the ways to maximize the man and the woman in the scenario. Is not to say that one is better than the other, or one can't do what the other can do, and things like that.

Yeah, And I want to say with that because I think that can be kind of demonized or looked down on, and that's not the case. It's like, I think we have to really talk about our bodies in a different way because sure, men may have a higher rate of being able to be productive consistently. But it's different. I think it's just different. And that's the big part of that hormonal conversation that I really don't want to miss because although yes, our hormones are different every day, it also opens us up to being able to see the world through its completely different lens that you wouldn't be able to do if you had similar things every single day. So it's to me about figuring out the ways to maximize the man and the woman in the scenario. Is not to say that one is better than the other, or one can't do what the other can do, and things like that.

One undred percent, I love what you're saying, and I'm completely with you because we all have different brains and bodies, right, whether we're a woman and we have an Infredian rhythm like the mental cycle and we're different every day, or like I have two chronic illnesses or you have a disability, your body just has a different path, and no path is right or wrong. It's about understanding, or I call them authentic energy codes. Understanding your authentic energy code, how you can work with that to have the highest yield contribution. And maybe some days that means you contribute a lot of things, and maybe that means some days you don't contribute anything. It all kind of comes out in the wash, is what I think.

One undred percent, I love what you're saying, and I'm completely with you because we all have different brains and bodies, right, whether we're a woman and we have an Infredian rhythm like the mental cycle and we're different every day, or like I have two chronic illnesses or you have a disability, your body just has a different path, and no path is right or wrong. It's about understanding, or I call them authentic energy codes. Understanding your authentic energy code, how you can work with that to have the highest yield contribution. And maybe some days that means you contribute a lot of things, and maybe that means some days you don't contribute anything. It all kind of comes out in the wash, is what I think.

Well, it's also goes back to getting to know your own self, looking back at your childhood, whatever it was that shaped you who you are, figuring those kind of things out and how you can really operate at your highest skill set.

Well, it's also goes back to getting to know your own self, looking back at your childhood, whatever it was that shaped you who you are, figuring those kind of things out and how you can really operate at your highest skill set.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Yes, exactly, exactly.

Well that's one tool. Is do you have any other tools? If someone is sitting there going okay, yeah, it's December of twenty twenty four, I.

Well that's one tool. Is do you have any other tools? If someone is sitting there going okay, yeah, it's December of twenty twenty four, I.

Have been through it the last couple of years. I'm completely burnt out. What can I do?

Have been through it the last couple of years. I'm completely burnt out. What can I do?

Yeah, So when it comes to burnout, I like to take people through a three part framework. So we already talked about the biology component, right, some of us our biologies it's a bit more sensitive to burnout, which just means that we want to work with our energy a bit more consciously. Then I think there's other three other things that kind of go into burnout. So one is invisible labor, which is the work that we do that's unseen and unpaid for. Then there's visible labor, which is usually our day job. And then there's tolerations. I'll take you through each one. Okay, So invisible labor, this is the work that we do that's unseen and unpaid for. And in heterosexual relationships, women tend to do a lot more invisible labor than men. So that looks like maybe making the dinners, doing the chores, getting the kids ready, all of those things, and you don't get a paycheck for those things. There's no cap on helping good right, right exactly, There's no cap on how many hours a week you can work on those things. And when that goes unchecked, I think that can really tip us into burnout. So I think it's really important that we get conscious of how much invisible labor we're doing. Ok and we may need to redistribute some of the then the next one's visible labor. So this is the work that we do that is seen and paid for. This is our day job, and a lot of us, as we were kind of alluding to before, are overworking in our day jobs. So maybe we are staying you know, way past you know, six o'clock or five o'clock, and you know, doing eleven other things that we don't need to do, or maybe we are volunteering to run the office erg or we're kind of like the office therapist. We're doing these things that are extra that we don't need to that are maybe tipping us into burnout. And then the third thing is tolerations, the things that we are tolerating in our life that we need not be tolerating that are tipping us into burnout. And that can be things like tolerating being underpaid, tolerating being underworked, tolerating a lack of boundaries, tolerating our own people pleasing. So what are the things that you're tolerating in your life that could be eroding a sense of well being and tipping you into burnout.

Yeah, So when it comes to burnout, I like to take people through a three part framework. So we already talked about the biology component, right, some of us our biologies it's a bit more sensitive to burnout, which just means that we want to work with our energy a bit more consciously. Then I think there's other three other things that kind of go into burnout. So one is invisible labor, which is the work that we do that's unseen and unpaid for. Then there's visible labor, which is usually our day job. And then there's tolerations. I'll take you through each one. Okay, So invisible labor, this is the work that we do that's unseen and unpaid for. And in heterosexual relationships, women tend to do a lot more invisible labor than men. So that looks like maybe making the dinners, doing the chores, getting the kids ready, all of those things, and you don't get a paycheck for those things. There's no cap on helping good right, right exactly, There's no cap on how many hours a week you can work on those things. And when that goes unchecked, I think that can really tip us into burnout. So I think it's really important that we get conscious of how much invisible labor we're doing. Ok and we may need to redistribute some of the then the next one's visible labor. So this is the work that we do that is seen and paid for. This is our day job, and a lot of us, as we were kind of alluding to before, are overworking in our day jobs. So maybe we are staying you know, way past you know, six o'clock or five o'clock, and you know, doing eleven other things that we don't need to do, or maybe we are volunteering to run the office erg or we're kind of like the office therapist. We're doing these things that are extra that we don't need to that are maybe tipping us into burnout. And then the third thing is tolerations, the things that we are tolerating in our life that we need not be tolerating that are tipping us into burnout. And that can be things like tolerating being underpaid, tolerating being underworked, tolerating a lack of boundaries, tolerating our own people pleasing. So what are the things that you're tolerating in your life that could be eroding a sense of well being and tipping you into burnout.

I love the three breakdowns because that is true the invisible labor. I even think about that from an emotional component because women, I think are much more This isn't every case, but I think a lot of times women will be leading the emotional connection in a relationship or with the kids or things like that, and that can be draining as well.

I love the three breakdowns because that is true the invisible labor. I even think about that from an emotional component because women, I think are much more This isn't every case, but I think a lot of times women will be leading the emotional connection in a relationship or with the kids or things like that, and that can be draining as well.

Yeah, that can be exhausting. Emotional labor is real. Yeah, it's saying and it's heavy. And so we want to look at these all these components of our lives and ask you know, where is the heaviest burden. Where are we contributing a lot and not getting a ton back? And can we shift that?

Yeah, that can be exhausting. Emotional labor is real. Yeah, it's saying and it's heavy. And so we want to look at these all these components of our lives and ask you know, where is the heaviest burden. Where are we contributing a lot and not getting a ton back? And can we shift that?

Yeah, it sounds like a little place for boundaries as well to be in this ole boundaries. Boundaries they always keep popping up, don't they.

Yeah, it sounds like a little place for boundaries as well to be in this ole boundaries. Boundaries they always keep popping up, don't they.

No same a lifetime.

No same a lifetime.

Yeah, okay, so we're moving into twenty twenty five. And if you're looking back on your ear and you're thinking, yeah, I wasn't happy or the last couple years, like I wasn't happy. You talk about the art of the pivot. So you say that there's a way to intentionally quit your job. Can you tell us more about that?

Yeah, okay, so we're moving into twenty twenty five. And if you're looking back on your ear and you're thinking, yeah, I wasn't happy or the last couple years, like I wasn't happy. You talk about the art of the pivot. So you say that there's a way to intentionally quit your job. Can you tell us more about that?

So this is why most people come to me and my coaching practice, because you're ready for a change and they want to do it intentionally. And so it's usually people that have kind of got into the top of the ladder in their respective field, and that was the career they thought they should have, right, Like, they checked all the boxes, they got that title, that paycheck, and then they look around and they're like, there's no happiness or joy here. This isn't what I really wanted. I want to do something different. And so I believe that the great work of our life touches on five areas, and when I talk about the intentional pivot, we want to find all five of these areas for our next role. So I'll take you through all five. The first one is zone of genius or gifts. We all have zones of genius, places where we're off the charts brilliant, where our gifts are innate and we don't have to push force or effort to contribute in those spaces, like it just kind of really flows from us naturally. And this supports not tipping into burnout because imagine if you worked in a place where you were using your innate gifts versus ones you have to really push to get out there, It's like that's very different energy. So that's gifts, and then there's our values. So we want to make sure our values are aligned with the organization's values or any place that we're working, because when they're not, we feel constant friction every day. So if I really care about the environment, but the company that I work for has a really big environmental footprint, every day, I'm going to go to work kicking rocks being like what am I doing right? And that wears away at happiness and can also contribute to burnout. The third thing is impact, So those of us that are called a purpose driven work, we care about our impact and impact doesn't have to be like world changing. It can be family, community, or the greater good. So when you think about when you're exiting the planet, you know, what do you want to have made different for your family, community, or the greater good. Then the fourth thing is joy, So we want to feel a sense of joy in our contribution, and it doesn't have to be all the time. Like listen, I don't know anybody that feels joy one hundred percent of the time in their work.

So this is why most people come to me and my coaching practice, because you're ready for a change and they want to do it intentionally. And so it's usually people that have kind of got into the top of the ladder in their respective field, and that was the career they thought they should have, right, Like, they checked all the boxes, they got that title, that paycheck, and then they look around and they're like, there's no happiness or joy here. This isn't what I really wanted. I want to do something different. And so I believe that the great work of our life touches on five areas, and when I talk about the intentional pivot, we want to find all five of these areas for our next role. So I'll take you through all five. The first one is zone of genius or gifts. We all have zones of genius, places where we're off the charts brilliant, where our gifts are innate and we don't have to push force or effort to contribute in those spaces, like it just kind of really flows from us naturally. And this supports not tipping into burnout because imagine if you worked in a place where you were using your innate gifts versus ones you have to really push to get out there, It's like that's very different energy. So that's gifts, and then there's our values. So we want to make sure our values are aligned with the organization's values or any place that we're working, because when they're not, we feel constant friction every day. So if I really care about the environment, but the company that I work for has a really big environmental footprint, every day, I'm going to go to work kicking rocks being like what am I doing right? And that wears away at happiness and can also contribute to burnout. The third thing is impact, So those of us that are called a purpose driven work, we care about our impact and impact doesn't have to be like world changing. It can be family, community, or the greater good. So when you think about when you're exiting the planet, you know, what do you want to have made different for your family, community, or the greater good. Then the fourth thing is joy, So we want to feel a sense of joy in our contribution, and it doesn't have to be all the time. Like listen, I don't know anybody that feels joy one hundred percent of the time in their work.

Definitely not right.

Definitely not right.

Like, I love my job, and i'd say it's like a seventy thirty.

Like, I love my job, and i'd say it's like a seventy thirty.

Well, everything's good job at the end of the day. Like that's what I try to say to people too, it's it's still a job. So as much as I like my job, a lot of times in my day job, a lot of people are like, oh, it must be so glamorous. Yes, And the more I do it, there's things that come up and it is like every other job where there's issues in the workplace or it's draining, or you're burnout or anything like that.

Well, everything's good job at the end of the day. Like that's what I try to say to people too, it's it's still a job. So as much as I like my job, a lot of times in my day job, a lot of people are like, oh, it must be so glamorous. Yes, And the more I do it, there's things that come up and it is like every other job where there's issues in the workplace or it's draining, or you're burnout or anything like that.

You have a difficult client, whatever it is, yes, or show us something exactly. And then the fifth part of the framework is needs. And this is the one that is like so often and forgotten. But we have to have our needs met in whatever we're doing. So the needs in terms of salary, in terms of time off, in terms of support staff. What are the things that you need to show up and shine fully when it comes to what you're pivoting into. And I also believe that like designing the pathway and the roadmap forward, knowing how much money you have, how long of a runway you have because of that money, all creates psychological safety that allows you to pivot successfully versus be panicked in your pivot.

You have a difficult client, whatever it is, yes, or show us something exactly. And then the fifth part of the framework is needs. And this is the one that is like so often and forgotten. But we have to have our needs met in whatever we're doing. So the needs in terms of salary, in terms of time off, in terms of support staff. What are the things that you need to show up and shine fully when it comes to what you're pivoting into. And I also believe that like designing the pathway and the roadmap forward, knowing how much money you have, how long of a runway you have because of that money, all creates psychological safety that allows you to pivot successfully versus be panicked in your pivot.

Well, let's talk about like refining success. Even because you mentioned joy and you mentioned needs, and I also think about that in terms of like happiness and contentment. So what are the differences with happiness and contentment and what do we need to look at in regards to that involving our success.

Well, let's talk about like refining success. Even because you mentioned joy and you mentioned needs, and I also think about that in terms of like happiness and contentment. So what are the differences with happiness and contentment and what do we need to look at in regards to that involving our success.

Yes, great questions. So happiness is an emotion, but it's so it's therefore fleeting. But in the West, we're like kind of obsessed with happiness we're like, I want to be happy all the time, But that's actually kind of a fool's errands because emotions, emotion's energy in motion are meant to be changing all the time, okay, But contentment is a more stable state. So in Eastern traditions, contentment is sort of like the desired state, and it loosely translates to either the knowledge of enough or unconditional wholeness. And I think that those are such beautiful definitions. And so it's the idea of like contentment is riding the middle of the wave when life is up and down. Right, It's like, we have this knowledge of enough, this unconditional wholeness regardless of what's happening, whereas happiness is an emotion that changes from day to day, right, And all the data suggests that people that are the healthiest physically emotionally are ones that allow for emo diversity, which is emotional diversity, where we let and we welcome in all the emotions from anger to sadness, to joy to happiness, all of it, versus clinging to this state of happiness. So when people are like so bent on finding the career that make some happiest all day, every day, I'm like, Okay, this is going to be challenging because everything changes, everything goes through cycles. We want to aim for contentment more so than we want to aim for happiness.

Yes, great questions. So happiness is an emotion, but it's so it's therefore fleeting. But in the West, we're like kind of obsessed with happiness we're like, I want to be happy all the time, But that's actually kind of a fool's errands because emotions, emotion's energy in motion are meant to be changing all the time, okay, But contentment is a more stable state. So in Eastern traditions, contentment is sort of like the desired state, and it loosely translates to either the knowledge of enough or unconditional wholeness. And I think that those are such beautiful definitions. And so it's the idea of like contentment is riding the middle of the wave when life is up and down. Right, It's like, we have this knowledge of enough, this unconditional wholeness regardless of what's happening, whereas happiness is an emotion that changes from day to day, right, And all the data suggests that people that are the healthiest physically emotionally are ones that allow for emo diversity, which is emotional diversity, where we let and we welcome in all the emotions from anger to sadness, to joy to happiness, all of it, versus clinging to this state of happiness. So when people are like so bent on finding the career that make some happiest all day, every day, I'm like, Okay, this is going to be challenging because everything changes, everything goes through cycles. We want to aim for contentment more so than we want to aim for happiness.

So I am an indeagram four, which I talk about a lot on this podcast, But enneagram four is a very comfortable feeling the range of emotions, Like I will feel every type of emotion, sometimes to the point though where I could get stuck in the lower level of emotions because I'm just comfortable there, like it doesn't phase me the way that it might phase other people.

So I am an indeagram four, which I talk about a lot on this podcast, But enneagram four is a very comfortable feeling the range of emotions, Like I will feel every type of emotion, sometimes to the point though where I could get stuck in the lower level of emotions because I'm just comfortable there, like it doesn't phase me the way that it might phase other people.

So it's great for.

So it's great for.

Things like when some of them and any of my friends are going through grief, I'm the first call because they know I can sit with them and hold space and have empathy in all of those things. Well, I just found out that my boyfriend is a seven, which is very much the person who wants to just stay in happiness and the positive emotions. They want to avoid the negative emotions at all costs. So it's a very very interesting dynamic obviously, and that's obviously coming up for reasons like just certain conversations we've had in therapy. We've been like, oh, well here's that, and so we're seeing the differences. I think they can both be beneficial if we learn how to respect the other number and like work together. But how does that play out if a person is someone like my boyfriend who's a seven, Like, it's not natural for them. They're everything in their body says, do not go dark, Like, let's stay positive, let's focus on those things. So how do they apply that to what we just said about success and job related things? Like they obviously want to feel good all the time, and so is their instinct going to be if they don't feel happy all the time to leave that job? And how do you navigate the differences there?

Things like when some of them and any of my friends are going through grief, I'm the first call because they know I can sit with them and hold space and have empathy in all of those things. Well, I just found out that my boyfriend is a seven, which is very much the person who wants to just stay in happiness and the positive emotions. They want to avoid the negative emotions at all costs. So it's a very very interesting dynamic obviously, and that's obviously coming up for reasons like just certain conversations we've had in therapy. We've been like, oh, well here's that, and so we're seeing the differences. I think they can both be beneficial if we learn how to respect the other number and like work together. But how does that play out if a person is someone like my boyfriend who's a seven, Like, it's not natural for them. They're everything in their body says, do not go dark, Like, let's stay positive, let's focus on those things. So how do they apply that to what we just said about success and job related things? Like they obviously want to feel good all the time, and so is their instinct going to be if they don't feel happy all the time to leave that job? And how do you navigate the differences there?

It feels like the two of you have magnetized each other for each other's soul.

It feels like the two of you have magnetized each other for each other's soul.

Sure right, yes, exactly.

Sure right, yes, exactly.

You're down there all the time, he's up here all the time. Do you find the middle together?

You're down there all the time, he's up here all the time. Do you find the middle together?

Exactly?

Exactly?

It's so funny. I have besties that are like you, that are like, oh, I love.

It's so funny. I have besties that are like you, that are like, oh, I love.

It down here.

It down here.

I can hold it.

I can hold it.

All for you to tell you this.

All for you to tell you this.

Really dark hard. Yes, the besties that are up here and that are like, I just want to live in the light.

Really dark hard. Yes, the besties that are up here and that are like, I just want to live in the light.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what I teach when I go into organizations and they bring me. In to do trainings around communication, I teach something called the platinum rule. So the golden rule is treat people how you want to be treated, right, But the platinum rule is treat people how they want to be treated. And in order to do that, we each have to flex our style. So your boyfriend would need to flex his style to come closer to you, to be a little bit more comfortable with the difference in the variants and emotions. You would need to flex your style to welcome a little bit more of the light in.

And what I teach when I go into organizations and they bring me. In to do trainings around communication, I teach something called the platinum rule. So the golden rule is treat people how you want to be treated, right, But the platinum rule is treat people how they want to be treated. And in order to do that, we each have to flex our style. So your boyfriend would need to flex his style to come closer to you, to be a little bit more comfortable with the difference in the variants and emotions. You would need to flex your style to welcome a little bit more of the light in.

Yes, and we can, like when we do it inch.

Yes, and we can, like when we do it inch.

By inch, we can do it in a way that's really psychologically safe. So we're not saying to him, come live in the underworld with me where it feels terrible. Yeah, I'm not saying that you only live in like the toxic positivity, which is also it's like this inch by inch thing.

By inch, we can do it in a way that's really psychologically safe. So we're not saying to him, come live in the underworld with me where it feels terrible. Yeah, I'm not saying that you only live in like the toxic positivity, which is also it's like this inch by inch thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so when I have clients that like prefer to live in the positivity versus the fullness of the reality, I try to broaden the aperture because whatever we put up blinders to only becomes amplified over time. So we're pretending that there's no quote unquote negativity or challenge, it's only going to become amplified. So we do need to look at it in a little We need to look at it, but there's ways to kind of psychologically safely broaden the aperture. That doesn't feel like overnight, I'm asking them to be a wildly different person. So why would invite them to look at it and sit with it a little bit? Okay? And can we tolerate this? Can we tolerate a little bit more? Can we tolerate a little bit more? And then decide do we need to leave or find a new role?

And so when I have clients that like prefer to live in the positivity versus the fullness of the reality, I try to broaden the aperture because whatever we put up blinders to only becomes amplified over time. So we're pretending that there's no quote unquote negativity or challenge, it's only going to become amplified. So we do need to look at it in a little We need to look at it, but there's ways to kind of psychologically safely broaden the aperture. That doesn't feel like overnight, I'm asking them to be a wildly different person. So why would invite them to look at it and sit with it a little bit? Okay? And can we tolerate this? Can we tolerate a little bit more? Can we tolerate a little bit more? And then decide do we need to leave or find a new role?

Okay, So you're saying just basically, don't go to the extremes, like ask yourself the small questions. What is it that's making me unhappy? Is that something I can tolerate? Or is that something I need to change instead of just drastically going well, I'm not happy in quitting your job?

Okay, So you're saying just basically, don't go to the extremes, like ask yourself the small questions. What is it that's making me unhappy? Is that something I can tolerate? Or is that something I need to change instead of just drastically going well, I'm not happy in quitting your job?

Right?

Right?

Is there something that I can learn about this?

Is there something that I can learn about this?

Right?

Right?

Is there is teaching me something? Is it's growing me? Or am I making it mean something?

Is there is teaching me something? Is it's growing me? Or am I making it mean something?

Right?

Right?

A lot of the times when we're having a hard time with the challenging emotion, we're making it mean something. Let's take anger, for example, when people are having a hard time sitting with somebody else's anger. It's usually because we're making it wrong or making it mean something. So can I sit with that anger without making it mean something?

A lot of the times when we're having a hard time with the challenging emotion, we're making it mean something. Let's take anger, for example, when people are having a hard time sitting with somebody else's anger. It's usually because we're making it wrong or making it mean something. So can I sit with that anger without making it mean something?

Oh?

Oh?

I did that? Okay, maybe I could sit with it a little bit more and see if we can grow from there.

I did that? Okay, maybe I could sit with it a little bit more and see if we can grow from there.

Okay, this may go back to the burnout question, but it's something I didn't want to miss. You talk about the passion tax, and I find this really interesting because obviously we all are told go find your passion, Go chase your passion. If you find it, you're gonna have all this happiness, all this contentment, all the things we just talked about. But what is the passion tax and what do we need to be on the lookout for?

Okay, this may go back to the burnout question, but it's something I didn't want to miss. You talk about the passion tax, and I find this really interesting because obviously we all are told go find your passion, Go chase your passion. If you find it, you're gonna have all this happiness, all this contentment, all the things we just talked about. But what is the passion tax and what do we need to be on the lookout for?

There?

There?

Yes, love this question. So the passion tax is when we're really passionate about something and then other people or our managers or organizations see that, then they ask us to do more of that thing, and then it becomes basically an unpaid second job, and then we feel taxed and burdened by the weight of it. So a great example is like when I worked in marketing before I became a coach, I was a natural coach. So I loved that. But then they're like, oh, she's such a great coach. Put everybody on our team. Have her manage everybody. And then I was doing so much managing and so many developmental coaching sessions that I had no time for my actual job, and I was like, what is happening? And so we want to stay passionate about these things, but if we do too much of it and we're not supported in it, it becomes that invisible labor that can tip us into burnout. So it's really important that we have boundaries around it. And the other thing that I'll say too is, you know, we talk so much about having passionate careers, but I don't actually think that's the way to go. I think purposeful careers are based on that five part framework we talked about a couple of minutes ago. Because passion, by nature, like emotions, is fickle. They change all the time, Right Like when I was a kid, I was like passionate about psychedelic colors, and you know, my my little ponies not really passionate about those things anymore. Because I have evolved, is a human right, exactly appropriate. And so if we anchor in the passions, we're going to feel a little boxed in and a little stuck, which is why purpose is a little bit more expansive of an idea.

Yes, love this question. So the passion tax is when we're really passionate about something and then other people or our managers or organizations see that, then they ask us to do more of that thing, and then it becomes basically an unpaid second job, and then we feel taxed and burdened by the weight of it. So a great example is like when I worked in marketing before I became a coach, I was a natural coach. So I loved that. But then they're like, oh, she's such a great coach. Put everybody on our team. Have her manage everybody. And then I was doing so much managing and so many developmental coaching sessions that I had no time for my actual job, and I was like, what is happening? And so we want to stay passionate about these things, but if we do too much of it and we're not supported in it, it becomes that invisible labor that can tip us into burnout. So it's really important that we have boundaries around it. And the other thing that I'll say too is, you know, we talk so much about having passionate careers, but I don't actually think that's the way to go. I think purposeful careers are based on that five part framework we talked about a couple of minutes ago. Because passion, by nature, like emotions, is fickle. They change all the time, Right Like when I was a kid, I was like passionate about psychedelic colors, and you know, my my little ponies not really passionate about those things anymore. Because I have evolved, is a human right, exactly appropriate. And so if we anchor in the passions, we're going to feel a little boxed in and a little stuck, which is why purpose is a little bit more expansive of an idea.

Well, I love that too, because you're talking about like a personality like mine, like a four. My emotions are different every day, and like we said, women are different every day, and so if you're following your quote unquote passion, it's probably going to change pretty consistently, and so that would be very confusing. I've definitely lived in a space where I'm like, am I in the right career? Am I doing the right thing? Because there are days that don't feel it's super exciting or super happy. But I love that to not really put too much weight, like feelings aren't facts like we always hear and so letting that kind of wash over you, but really leaning into more of what your purpose is exactly.

Well, I love that too, because you're talking about like a personality like mine, like a four. My emotions are different every day, and like we said, women are different every day, and so if you're following your quote unquote passion, it's probably going to change pretty consistently, and so that would be very confusing. I've definitely lived in a space where I'm like, am I in the right career? Am I doing the right thing? Because there are days that don't feel it's super exciting or super happy. But I love that to not really put too much weight, like feelings aren't facts like we always hear and so letting that kind of wash over you, but really leaning into more of what your purpose is exactly.

And I love what you said, feelings aren't facts their data.

And I love what you said, feelings aren't facts their data.

Yeah, Oh that's perfect. Okay.

Yeah, Oh that's perfect. Okay.

Last question I want to get to is we are hearing so much about main character energy and I know I'm like, I want to have this main character energy in my life.

Last question I want to get to is we are hearing so much about main character energy and I know I'm like, I want to have this main character energy in my life.

What is this? It seems so exciting?

What is this? It seems so exciting?

How do we find our own power and actually step into that main character energy in our jobs, in our life, in our purpose, all of those things.

How do we find our own power and actually step into that main character energy in our jobs, in our life, in our purpose, all of those things.

Something tells me that you are in your main character energy. Think, okay, I feel like this is real main character energy.

Something tells me that you are in your main character energy. Think, okay, I feel like this is real main character energy.

Yes, okay, good.

Yes, okay, good.

So one of the things I say to my clients all the time is that we are the center of our own lives, the center of our own experience. But so many of us feel really uncomfortable in that. We're like, okay, let me stand behind my partner or my manager or my kids.

So one of the things I say to my clients all the time is that we are the center of our own lives, the center of our own experience. But so many of us feel really uncomfortable in that. We're like, okay, let me stand behind my partner or my manager or my kids.

Right.

Right.

Taking up space feels really tricky for a lot of us. Yeah, we come to this world alone, we leave this world alone or the center of our own experience, and so I think it's really important that we understand who we are and how to amplify that.

Taking up space feels really tricky for a lot of us. Yeah, we come to this world alone, we leave this world alone or the center of our own experience, and so I think it's really important that we understand who we are and how to amplify that.

Okay.

Okay.

And one of my favorite exercises to do with clients is something called a self and not self exercise. So I have them make two columns on a piece of paper, and on the self side we write all the things that we are at our core, so unapologetic, fiercely, loving, fabulous, whatever those things are. And then in the other column we write the not self themes, the things that come up when we're hiding or playing small. So maybe it's people pleasing, lack of boundaries, low self worth, whatever it is. And then I invite them to take inventory throughout the week where they're being self and where they're being not self, and what conditions are in place that support either one of those things, so they start to cultivate awareness around who they really are, and then they can kind of turn the volume up on that main character energy. I think is really important about main character energy is also cultivating unbothered energy, which requires some nervous system tuning. So when we stand in the fullness of our being, sometimes that's going to rub people the wrong way right, they're going to feel triggered or activated by it. So we have to do the work on our side to be rooted enough, to be to be grounded enough and regulated enough in our nervous system that when we get are on the receiving end of that of people not feeling comfortable with our bigness, that we still feel like it's safe to be that main character energy.

And one of my favorite exercises to do with clients is something called a self and not self exercise. So I have them make two columns on a piece of paper, and on the self side we write all the things that we are at our core, so unapologetic, fiercely, loving, fabulous, whatever those things are. And then in the other column we write the not self themes, the things that come up when we're hiding or playing small. So maybe it's people pleasing, lack of boundaries, low self worth, whatever it is. And then I invite them to take inventory throughout the week where they're being self and where they're being not self, and what conditions are in place that support either one of those things, so they start to cultivate awareness around who they really are, and then they can kind of turn the volume up on that main character energy. I think is really important about main character energy is also cultivating unbothered energy, which requires some nervous system tuning. So when we stand in the fullness of our being, sometimes that's going to rub people the wrong way right, they're going to feel triggered or activated by it. So we have to do the work on our side to be rooted enough, to be to be grounded enough and regulated enough in our nervous system that when we get are on the receiving end of that of people not feeling comfortable with our bigness, that we still feel like it's safe to be that main character energy.

Well, you answered my next question, so that was perfect because if you go from the self to the not self and you're seeing that difference, it is hard sometimes to let go of the not self, because that is also letting go of what people think and how people react to you, and so it's you kind of want to go back and of the not soelf because it's a little more comfortable that.

Well, you answered my next question, so that was perfect because if you go from the self to the not self and you're seeing that difference, it is hard sometimes to let go of the not self, because that is also letting go of what people think and how people react to you, and so it's you kind of want to go back and of the not soelf because it's a little more comfortable that.

Way one percent. You know, like, I tell you all about this exercise in two minutes, but it's like, in reality, I've been working the last two years. I'm really giving up people pleasing for good and that's been a tremendous amount of nervous system work. So I can give you this exercise in two minutes, but I've been two years in the work, So I think that's a great thing to highlight.

Way one percent. You know, like, I tell you all about this exercise in two minutes, but it's like, in reality, I've been working the last two years. I'm really giving up people pleasing for good and that's been a tremendous amount of nervous system work. So I can give you this exercise in two minutes, but I've been two years in the work, So I think that's a great thing to highlight.

Well, when you say nervous system work, can you even expand on that just a little bit?

Well, when you say nervous system work, can you even expand on that just a little bit?

Yes. So I feel like for so long in the personal development space, we were talking about mindset, which is very important, but nervous system is almost before mindset. So our nervous systems exist to keep us safe. They are basically scanning our environment all the time to look for threats, and then based on if there's a perceived threat, they'll basically initiate a cascade of hormones that tells us how to act right. So if we get a scary email and our body's going to be like, oh my god, cortisol, adrenaline, like release all these hormones, we need to run away. But actually it's just a scary email and there's no actual threat in the room. So we want to be in relationship with our nervous system so that it acts appropriately. And what I mean by that is is when we get the email, there's actually no lion in the room, right to the more appropriate response is that I'm not in my sympathetic or fight or flight nervous system. I'm in my parasympathetic, rest and digest nervous system. And so when our nervous systems are activated, then our mindset goes on a journey too, right, So, yeah, I got this email, Oh my god, I'm gonna get fired whatever it is. So we want to be working at the level of the nervous system as well as at the level of the mindset. And there's some really great somatic tools that you can use to really help you there.

Yes. So I feel like for so long in the personal development space, we were talking about mindset, which is very important, but nervous system is almost before mindset. So our nervous systems exist to keep us safe. They are basically scanning our environment all the time to look for threats, and then based on if there's a perceived threat, they'll basically initiate a cascade of hormones that tells us how to act right. So if we get a scary email and our body's going to be like, oh my god, cortisol, adrenaline, like release all these hormones, we need to run away. But actually it's just a scary email and there's no actual threat in the room. So we want to be in relationship with our nervous system so that it acts appropriately. And what I mean by that is is when we get the email, there's actually no lion in the room, right to the more appropriate response is that I'm not in my sympathetic or fight or flight nervous system. I'm in my parasympathetic, rest and digest nervous system. And so when our nervous systems are activated, then our mindset goes on a journey too, right, So, yeah, I got this email, Oh my god, I'm gonna get fired whatever it is. So we want to be working at the level of the nervous system as well as at the level of the mindset. And there's some really great somatic tools that you can use to really help you there.

Okay, Well again, I just love so much that you're making the connection to all the other work that I talk about on this podcast to business, because I do think that it's just across the board the same thing, and it's really good for us to apply all of those tools into our work life. I know you also have a podcast, so if the listeners are hearing things that they like to hear, and I'm assuming this would be more of the kind of thing that you talk about on your podcast, where would they find that.

Okay, Well again, I just love so much that you're making the connection to all the other work that I talk about on this podcast to business, because I do think that it's just across the board the same thing, and it's really good for us to apply all of those tools into our work life. I know you also have a podcast, so if the listeners are hearing things that they like to hear, and I'm assuming this would be more of the kind of thing that you talk about on your podcast, where would they find that.

Thank you so much for asking. So my podcast is I'm going to Change your Life, and it's perfect your podcasts. But I also have a book coming out in May, which is officially on pre order right now too, and I talk a lot about the topics that we covered here today in the book, and you can get that everywhere you get your books, whether it's Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Target, all those fabulous places.

Thank you so much for asking. So my podcast is I'm going to Change your Life, and it's perfect your podcasts. But I also have a book coming out in May, which is officially on pre order right now too, and I talk a lot about the topics that we covered here today in the book, and you can get that everywhere you get your books, whether it's Barnes and Noble, Amazon, Target, all those fabulous places.

Okay, amazing.

Okay, amazing.

Well, I'll put all of this information as always in the description of the podcast for you guys. I'm gonna thank you so much. I'm actually going to go back and re listen to this and take notes on everything you said and apply it to my own life.

Well, I'll put all of this information as always in the description of the podcast for you guys. I'm gonna thank you so much. I'm actually going to go back and re listen to this and take notes on everything you said and apply it to my own life.

So I really appreciate that.

So I really appreciate that.

Oh my gosh, Kelly, you are amazing. It was so wonderful to sit with you today. I feel so filled up. Thank you for everything.

Oh my gosh, Kelly, you are amazing. It was so wonderful to sit with you today. I feel so filled up. Thank you for everything.

Thank you guys for listening.

Thank you guys for listening.

Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts, M

Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts, M