Okay, I'm really excited for this interview. We have Candice for back here. You're we were just talking before and I felt like you were really a girl after my own heart, Like you're just living in this life so curious. Do you feel that on a daily basis? I think so too. And I was looking at your podcast and your little bio and like the about me and about the podcast, and I was like, we are kindred spirits. It's just a couple of curious women, um who understand the messiness and complexity of people and of life and like kind of removing shame from that and replacing it with that curiosity. So I was really excited to come on today. Well, part of your story that's so fascinating. You just kind of touched on this, but you were a former horn Star and so like as far as like messiness goes or just human journeys like that, to me, I'm like, Okay, this is fascinating. Like I've never had the opportunity to really dig into this topic. And Chip and I we um. Each month we have either a theme or word that you were doing words and so this month's word is expansion and I was like, this is the perfect guest for this word, because I think that, you know, as we go through life, it's like the things that we don't know about are really scary a lot of times. And so that's part of what I enjoy about this podcast is getting to talk to people who I wouldn't necessarily meet in any other capacity, um, but whose stories I can just learn from and they've really helped me to just have some more mind expansion, you know. So I want to start, I'm like, how do how does one wake up in the morning and go, you know, what I want to do with my life as to be a porn star? Like, how does that happen? What does that look like? Can you talk us through that part of your life. So there's this quote by he's a rabbi and I believe also a doctor, Mark Gaffney, and he says that sex is a journey and not in action. And I love that quote so much because I think you can look back at maybe your earliest experience with sexuality, whether it was just a vague thought that kind of passed by, or like your first experience, whatever that was, and then compare it to where you currently are, and you can't help see the evolution of that. So for me, I mean, and everyone else's is like living, breathing thing that's constantly evolving or expanding, if we're going to go off the word. So from a young age, for probably a multitude of reasons, I was really fascinated with female sexuality and like the empowerment that can come from totally owning, unapologetically and obviously at a young age, that's such a big concept that you don't fully understand the power of it or how you are necessarily going to achieve um like stepping into that, you know, inner goddess, if you will. But I knew when I saw women like Tara Patrick or Pamela Anderson, I was like, those women have something and whatever it is, whatever they've kind of figured out, I want to figure it out. So I just naturally kind of gravitated towards that. And then as I was getting older and older, I just I mean, Craigslist was huge back in the day, and I would see ads for joining the industry there I'm like, no, that's too scared, you can't do that. It would be there, like this little voice in my head, but I would never kind of pull the trigger on it. So I started working at Hooters and through that was doing like centerfold bikini modeling like hot rods and motorcycle bikes that kind of thing, and through that the industry is very blended, so there's more money the more you take off, so people like photographers will try to find someone that they think would do well and kind of pitch them other magazines or shoots, um or things of that nature. So I just had a connection that way. I started um webcam modeling, so I didn't show anything. It was just kind of like very deetavanties like t Z but hiding everything, and I was like, maybe this is going to be my outlet. It was not. Um there are a lot of demanding customers if you want to say, on the other end, and I just am not a very agreeable person like I just it's not in my nature. Um So, it's like I don't want this to be the interface. I want there to be a little bit more quality control as to what my experience is going to be. And there's no filter when you just like click go live on a chatting site. UM So, I found a website that I had come across and I thought everything was real, like it was back when we had the illusion that reality was reality and it wasn't scripted. So it was these blonde bombshells in Miami in this gorgeous mansion, and I was like, oh, this is basically like the Playboy mansion, but Miami. I want to go do that. So I reached out to them and I was like, do I audition? How do I? How do can I be a part of this? This looks like this has my name all over it? Like, no, never audition. If someone's asking you to audition, go the other way. That's not a thing. Um, So please send us your I D and a couple of photos and we'll go from there. I got approved and they flew me to Miami and the rest of history. So okay, wait, so you go to Miami and you're walking into this like mansion, so how it then like that's I'm just like what so like to lift the veil a little bit. It's not as real as everyone hopes and things that it is. So you first go to the studio and there's like an hour worth of compliance and paperwork that you have to do. You're tested beforehand for you know, a host of STDs to make sure everyone safe then you go to hair and makeup. In wardrobe, you meet whoever you're working with that day, and then you go to location. So there's different locations per shoot. Like this UM website is called we Live Live Together, so they tend to have like more set locations. But yeah, like gorgeous house in in Miami. You go, you shoot, It's it's not real. I hate to break that to everybody, but yeah, you show up and there's very much like a quote script for for how the scene is to go down. So it happens every single day. Like every shoot, you're getting tested, know, so you get tested once every two weeks. Okay, And are you so like that was obviously one specific production company, Like you signed up to go do this one shoot with this company and then are you like in contract with them or do you then like work with them for two weeks? Like you said, like how does it go? So? Um, my case was unique because I had never been in the industry before, so they like to kind of take advantage of that, Like if you're not kind of deluded out there, they know that they can kind of capitalize on it. So I shot a few scenes during that trip. Those scenes ended up kind of like skyrocketing to like the most popular ones on the website, so then they brought me back and then it was kind of an ongoing relationship from there. UM. I would say throughout my time in the industry, which is about like five ish years in the mainstream industry, UM, I had like three three or four different contracts, which is kind of unheard of because most contracts kind of went away and like the early two thousands, UM. But for me, that was always like a goal of mine. I liked the stability that it provided. I liked the sense of control that it provided, and like predictability, so that was kind of important for me. But there was definitely there were moments where I was freelancing, but from the majority of my career I was under contract and and and those contracts is it like you're it's already spelled out, like this is how many scenes you're going to do in the time frame of the contract, so you're not being overworked just because you're signed. For sure, Yeah, there's a minimum and then you can always add additional if you want, but you have the right to say yes or no to that, and then you list your boundaries like these are the scenes I'm willing to shoot. These are the ones I'm not. These are how I'm pricing them out. That kind of thing. I love that. What do you love about that? I mean, I just love how structured it is because it's I mean, it's true, it's you know, to me, the whole thing about adult entertainment is like the people that are so judgmental of it are probably the ones that are driving most of the revenue. You know. It's like it is the oldest job of time, and and um, you know, I think it's really beautiful that people can can own their bodies and and do with it what they want and if someone is willing to pay for you, like you should be able to profit off of it and not have to worry about judgment. And you know, it's like it's very well known that it drives the porn industry, drives technology advancement, like the VCRs, DVD streaming, like all of it is because of the demand for pornography. Um, and I look, I do think there are people that get into trouble with it, and you have to like mind your p's and ques and and have a healthy relationship with it. But it's like, you know, anyone who looks down on someone that like owns their body and and um and and is able to profit healthfully from it. Like I have a problem with that, you know. It's I love that you had the courage to do that and the wherewithal to be like this is this is what's exciting to me, and I'm curious about it, And it's why is that any different than dentistry? You know, like don't want to work in someone's mouth? You know, that's a question to me. Well, let's talk about that a little bit, because you mentioned earlier like the panel at Anderson Vibe, you know, like just how you looked at her and you thought she is someone who is owning her sexuality and you saw the power behind that. Did you feel that like when you first started filming, were you feeling powerful or were you feeling scared shitless? Scared shitless? Yeah, yeah, that's a muscle that you have to work. And just because you're having sex on camera does not mean that you all of a sudden channeled your inner goddess and that you are this sexy bombshell Like that is not the transition. So it's more at least for me, um, like the life cycle of that was because of I guess the extreme exposure, like it was so unique, you know. I mean you're kind of like literally getting thrown into the deep end of sexual sexuality. It's like, okay, well I can kind of learn what I like, what I don't like, And because you're in the setting where you are expected to perform, it's like, okay, I can. I'm not embarrassed to tap into certain things like maybe you're nervous if you're with a partner because am I moaning too loud? Am I trying too hard? What is he going to think about this outfit and how I'm moving whatever it is? But you're like, no, that's literally my job, so I can kind of experiment with how that makes me feel and try to find like my authentic sexual expression that way. So it's a ton of trial in their but I think through like competence and repetition is when you get that confidence. So it's like the more you do it, the more aware of what you want because you feel like it translated in your real life, like it made your like your sex life outside of work, um, more adventurous and better for sure. Yeah, and again it's you weren't having that. You were dealing with all the like the embarrassment and stress at work, and then you were able to come home and like have this really healthy outlook on what you actually really liked and enjoyed and felt like you were good at. Exactly. Yeah, and again it's like some things that like maybe andis was nervous to do in bed. Then I was like I just turned on Eva, and I was like, she's not she's excited. It's like your flash of fears. Like well, So that was a question for me though, because as a woman like I just turned forty, I keep saying I'm holding onto forty. I think I'm actually almost closer to forty one. But um, when I turned forty, I think there's this like moment in a woman's life where you're really starting to kind of embrace your own sexuality and and lean into receiving more and like what I like. I don't know if that's true for every woman, but for me, it took me a little bit longer to not be so focused on my partner. But some of that is because I think it's really hard to get out of your head during sex, so I can't imagine doing it in front of people, Like you just said you were learning those things about yourself. Why old people are watching? Like how many people are on set with you guys when you're filming. I would say the smallest set I've ever been on is probably three people, and that's when of those kinds of gonzo handicap kind of things. And then the biggest set was probably in like the fifties. Really, so I've been on some really big sets, um like tons of extras, tons of crews, stunt pete coordinators, all sorts of things, um, but for me coord yea. So we did um we did a Kill Bill parody and I got to be Lucy Lou, which was my dream because I adore her, and um, we had the original stunt coordinators for Power Rangers on set with like the full um wires and the crane and like you got to go up in the air and do flips. It was amazing. That was what um it was. It was Killed Bill triple X. Okay, because I remember there. I used to live in Los Angeles and there was a gay porn theater. I don't know if it's still open, and I remember they had a party called Drill Bill and that I thought was really funny. I've maybe an inappropriate question, but that's what I'm here for. Um, Like are they doing like getting like granular and putting like makeup on your vagina and stuff like I need a touch up? Like only I did a Star Wars parody and I was painted blue like one of those I forget they're called um with like the weird horns in the back. So that's I think that's the only time a vagina has ever had makeup on it, so otherwise it's just normal. Yeah, Well that kind of leads to like what is the preparation? Like all of this is so vulnerable to me, Like I just think of like I was saying earlier, like you're as a woman, I think when you're like or maybe this is men too, but I think men are just a little more driven by the physical. But we have to get out of our heads. And I'm thinking about being in a bedroom with one person, so like if fifty people are watching me, I'm like, how do I just like drop down into my body and enjoy the moment? Like what is that like? And how are you preparing for that? So some people and I'm definitely in that category like I am in my zone. If I have an audience, I'm never more turned on. Like I love that voyeuristic element, so that is just what gets me going. I know for most people it's quite the opposite, but for me, that's kind of my thing. So that's never really bothered me as far as like prep goes um, like psychological prep. I think the hardest I've ever done is when I was leaving the industry in like two thousand and sixteen. I left with a pretty big showcase and I did like my first ever DP scene and that was like the most intense thing I've ever done. I've always been like a very vanilla, just pretty performer, not really extreme when into Kinks or anything like that. Um, but that was something I wanted to try, and I was like, I'm gonna do this and then I'm going to go do my own thing. So um that was terrifying because it's like, how do you know I'm ever done that in my personal life? Nor did I want to because the logistics of it, like I don't want to get hurt. I don't. It's just there's too much going on. So it's like, if I'm going to do this, this is my opportunity, so um yeah, I just kind of had to breathe through it in the bathroom, like Okay, you've got this, and if you need to stop, you can stop, and just like knowing at the end of the day, I was kind of in control of that and it was it was awesome. I had a great time. I wouldn't wouldn't do it again in like my real life, like that's off the table, but I'm glad that I did. What if you had gotten into that situation and been like, oh I hate this, Like is there a is there a scenario where you say okay stop and the whole production stops or do you have to follow through it once you'll start? Oh? No, And then that's a huge misconception, like at the end of the day, like it's your body and it's something very vulnerable and it's yours. So like whether or not there's a contract doesn't matter. No law is going to ever hold that up. So if anyone's listening, like you are not bound by anything, you can always say no. Yeah. I would imagine there's power in at like that's I'm seeing seeing like that being maybe where the power starts to set in of like this is my body. I'm in control of what I'm doing and if you know that, But unfortunately, there's like a lot of young women specifically that don't, and then they do feel like, well, I said I would do this, or maybe they want to take the scene a different way, and if I don't, I'm going to disappoint people. Um women tend to be a little bit more agreeable and like not want that confrontation. So that's an unfortunate reality within the industry. So, UM, I think a lot of it comes down to temperament. So like, are you someone who's comfortable saying no and really setting solid safe boundaries for yourself or is that difficult because if you're entering into an industry like that, where like ship happens in every industry, right, people are vulnerable in every industry. I just think the people get so ruffled up about porn is because the potential of it to go extremely wrong is just more there than it is if you're working as a waitress or a bartender. Um, So before you get into something knowing that, I think it's really important that you, like you practice safe, healthy boundaries and get really really getting comfortable with that before you kind of put yourself in a position where you can be more vulnerable. I've a question, could you, um, sort of paint the picture of what it like the industry looks like on the inside and on a set, like, is it like, is it all men are there are a lot of women around, does it feel like a safe space? So that is where I think the hang up is you get a female makeup artist most of the time, Like sometimes you'll get some guys, but most of the time it's female. Um, you might have a female on set if she's working with you, and there's maybe a handful of female directors. Other than that, it is like male male male, so usually you are significantly outnumbered. There's no intimacy coach, which to me is crazy because I realized that standard practice mainstream film is they'll have an intimacy coach there to make sure, um, everyone is comfortable again, boundaries safe, They run through everything to make sure everyone's like consciously consenting to everything. Um, they're there. Something does happen, but there's not one where you are literally actually having sex. So why is that not a thing that makes no sense to h Yeah, that's crazy. Sorry, I'm still thinking about that. One. Um, So as far as like, like are you attracted to your partners in these films? So I think that my idea of attraction has evolved since I was in the industry. It used to be very superficial, right, like I'm either attracted or I'm not. But when I was working, I had a guess list of male performers I would work with, and for me on that scene, like the most important thing was that I felt safe and that they were being respectful and professional, and um, I could trust that they didn't go out clubbing that night and maybe slept with someone on protected you know, like these things really important to me. So I like I found that I was attracted to like their character, like how at least their character on set, like how they showed up and kind of like their energy on set and just appreciating that versus like, Oh, he's super hot and I can't wait to do this scene. Right, It's like, what would happen are like, are you picking the partner or is that something that's like the production company picks and you agree to, Like what is that process? Like most of the time, for most performers, they'll just send you who you're working with. Sometimes the night before. Again, you can always say no, but the problem is, um people don't like hearing no, so sometimes you feel like you can't really say it because you might be seen as difficult or you might not get recast. So there definitely can be some trouble that happens because of that. But typically girls will have like a no list, So so long as the person isn't on the no list, then kind of anything as seen as fair game. I had a yes list, so unless they were already pre screened and on that list, they couldn't be on there. So then it kind of saved the hassle of like issue're going to approve him or not? Oh yeah, yeah, and you said earlier it's like scripted. I was on a reality TV show, and so I'm always kind of explaining to people because it's not like scripted where they hand you a script and say, Kelly say this, but it's like, hey, we need you to hit these beats, and this conversation is about that, like you need to go in there and you'll need to touch on this. And so however we get there is kind of on our own, but we have to hit those beats, Like what does the script look like for a porn filming. So for the big parodies, there's actually script, there's actually lines, and they do like you kind of stick to them. For more of the reality or gonzo things, it's more of like you're going to be doing the dishes and all of a sudden, like your neighbors gonna walk in and you know, and then it goes from there. And then they'll usually kind of have um like a vision board where you have like positions you have to hit, like we want you to do this for three minutes, and this for three minutes. And it's and a lot more scripted than it used to be. Wait, how do you know what you're doing for three minutes? Like is there a clock somewhere that you're watching? It's usually the men that are in charge, thank god, and they are true professionals, like they've got it down to a science. So I just have them like move me whenever it was time for something else. Yeah, that sounds so stressful. Like do you actually enjoy the sex ever? Sometimes? Yeah? Yeah, for sure sometimes? And are people actually having orgasms ever? Yeah? Sometimes for surely. Yeah. I mean it's definitely not It's not anyone's priority, right, like no one gives a show, Like the guy behind the cameras like, we have we have to be out of location by five pm, so let's get this done. Bonus. It's a good bonus for sure. When it does happen, that's like a good day at work. Some positions, like let's be honest, like we've all seen porn in some positions, it is impossible, like maybe it looks amazing for the viewer, but it's just not happening right. Well, I think that's like one of the biggest things I always are, you know, in conversations with my girlfriends about porn. It's like one of the biggest things. And I think are that women complain about about porn. And I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but like it's definitely feels more geared to like what a man would want, because we're like, okay, who would I don't want to get pounded. Like the sex is not really like geared to maybe what would get a woman off all the time. It's more like and then guys are watching that coming home being like hey, babe, like let's go I want to like you know whatever that would be called jack rabbit, you and it's like that doesn't feel good to us, So like what are you? What do you say about all of that? As far as like maybe some of the frustrations from people about porn in that capacity, I totally understand the frustration. I think when it comes to porn, it's important to remember that men are like they represent over of the consumers, So of course it's going to be made for the male gays. If you if you watch hetero porn or if you're watching gay porn, it's shot almost identical like it's so it's not about misogyny or defiling the woman because it's shot just as um kind of invasive on on the gay end as well, Like they're very similar shots, and that's just because of what tends to turn on a typical male brain. So it's not there's nothing negative really happening, it's just what they realized what sells UM. As far as the actual motions go, you have to think if you were having sex how you typically would and this again goes like straight or gay. You're not going to see as much as you would need to see for the consumer to understand what's really happening. It's going to look more like a showtime film, and then again that's not going to really attract dollars or eyeballs, so it kind of has to be shot at those like Jack Rabbit really like intense in and out, like thrusting things so that they can see everything. Um, So it's not because it feels good. I'm sure it doesn't even like feel great for the male warmer, but it's just for visuals. So I think it's important to remember it's entertainment and it's not an instruction manual. But at the same time, if you see a position, you're like, that looks really fun. It's kind of like if you had a commissuture book and you wanted to try something. So I think you should always be open to it and like remain curious and playful, and if your partner brings something to you, like not to discourage them or shame them or make them feel embarrassed, but like let them and the next time it's your turn, you know what I mean, Like kind of like that back and forth. I love that though it's it's just entertainment, it's not like a rule book or a guide book necessarily, And so then you can look at some of the things and let's try that and see if it's fun, but it's not necessarily like this is how you have sex, and if you're not sex that way, then like what's wrong with you? Or this is boring or something like that. Yeah. I think it's like the fast and the furious is not how you should drive it either, exactly. But we had proper drivers, said, and I think we haven't had proper sex. Said, So that's where the confusion happened. Yeah, that's so true. Okay, Well, so there's so many stigmas around porn in general, and I think the conversation is so divisive. It's like it's poor and bad for relationships. Is it good for relationships? Is it good for our brains? Is it bad for our brains? Like, no one really seems to have a, you know, a definitive answer. Where do you stand on all of that? I think it's that old adage that the difference between a toxic and a tonic is the dosage, And I think that that's true for most things. Is food a problem for some people? Absolutely? Is food a problem for most people? Know? Is pooring a problem for some people? Absolutely? Is poor and a problem for most people. Know? So it depends on the user and how you're using it and how much of it you're using. So it's like anything else. I mean, if you look at Instagram, I think it was last year they released the files because they were trying to create a sister platform for like teenagers for like thirteen and under. Ended up getting disapproved because of the studies that came out and we're showing the mental well being of young girls and it was catastrophic as far as thoughts of depression, thoughts of suicide, eating disorders, confidence, um. All of these things were tanking in young girls. So like, no, we can't do this, But we don't see anyone getting riled up or asking if Instagram is moral or not. It's just we still have this shame that's residual around sexuality. So that's why it just gets so easily inflamed when you bring it up in a conversation. But to be fair, you would have to compare it to other modalities. So again you'd have to compare it to social media compared to alcohol, tobacco, um. At the end of the day, it's kind of the responsibility of the user to make sure that they're consuming something within a healthy level, So is it healthy for relationships? That absolutely can be. It can be the best way to spice things up, to break you out of your routine, to provide you with some new ways to connect with your partner. And it doesn't involve bringing someone else into the bedroom, right Like, it kind of can spark your creativity in that way. Now, if you have someone that's over indulging in it and they're taking care of all of their needs and they're never connecting with you sexually, I can see how you can see the porn is the problem. But the porn is not the problem. That's kind of the the symptom that's showing up. The problem is the connections. You have to ask why is my partner avoiding connection with me? Have I done something to maybe the show that I'm not interested? Is he not interested in me for some other reason? Is he had? Right? Like, you have to sit down with them and see like what's really happening at the bottom of everything, and not blame the symptom for the issue. Otherwise something else is going to replace the porn and you're not going to fix the problem. That That makes so much sense to me because when I look back at my relationships, like if porn has ever been an issue or a case of an argument for us, It wasn't the porn that bothered me. It was the secrecy. So it was like actually a block of intimacy that was happening versus like, oh, you want to look at another woman naked, like, that's not that wasn't the thing that was setting me off? Does that make? And how? And then I would ask, and I would ask a lot of listeners because I know I've fallen into this category. It's like, how many times have you offered a safe space where they could trust you to come to you with that information? Because I know that there were times where my partner would come to me and there would he's like, I'm not going to do it because I know how she's going to react. So I also didn't give him like he didn't trust that he could confide in me. So it could goes both ways. So if you want that vulnerability and that honesty, you can't punish them when they do come to you with with what's going on. Yeah, we had a dominatrix on a couple of months ago, and she was talking about that because some of her clients, I asked, like do their partners at home know about you or not know about you? And with the ones who came to her and they didn't know, it was because they didn't feel safe, And I was saying, like that would be a really like it's it's like the fear starts driving us all, like, well what does it mean if you know? And I think we can get in our own heads and like either go to our own sense of self worth gets challenged or whatever that is. So it is something that like we have to really work through within ourselves and with our partners. I don't know, it's really interesting. Well, speaking of partners, you are married and you you guys were together throughout your your career in porn, and so how did that work? Um? It was it was really tough to navigate, and we didn't have anyone to ask. We didn't never knew anyone that was in the industry that was married or entering it um together. Like usually people would meet on set and then that's how their relationship would be established. So kind of entering that without a clue was super difficult and it demanded a ton of again trust on both ends to be able to have really difficult conversations, um allow him to express what he was going through, because honestly, he probably went through more than I did. It's weird. I feel like our society and our friends and just who we kind of like found ourselves surrounding ourselves with judged him more than they judged me. And the narrative was like, you let her do this, and he's like, I didn't let her do anything, Like she is has full agency to make her own decisions. UM. So that concept always always gets me a little bit like flustered, because it's almost like I'm not a full person with the capability of making my own decisions. But um, it was a conversation for over over two years before I actually did my first boy girl scene, and like, what does this look like? And he essentially got to the point where he was like, I don't want to give you an ultimatum. I don't want there to be resentment down the road. If this is something you really feel like you need to go experience, then go experience it. And I'm going to try to be here for you. On the other side, I can't promise you because I don't know how I'm going to respond to this, but I'm going to try, and for me, I just kind of had this maybe the naive confidence that we would figure it out. So I never really felt like it was a real risk to the relationship even though it was. It wasn't easy. Um, And thank god I'm married to the man that I am, because he's like the most zen and self aware person that just really truly leads into discomfort on a level I've never seen. So obviously we we made it. It worked out, but it certainly isn't for the faint of heart, right. And now you guys have two boys, and so I'm curious, like I mean, specifically with young boys, like how are you going to have those conversations and like what do you what do you feel like navigating that will look like with them? So we have no clue how it's going to happen. It's really important that we're the first people to kind of introduce that idea to them, like this is kind of mom's past. I don't want someone to like just put an iPhone in his face and him be taken it back and have no clue because that's not there to him or to them. Um. But it's it's introducing our values and principles at age appropriate points. So for example, my three year old, he's already super curious about his body, so he's asking like what is this? What is this? And we give him the accurate terms or like this is your penis, these are your testicles, and he's like, oh, what what do what do they do? And we just answer like, there's no shame around your body. So that's like where we're introducing this foundation right now at this age. It's like there's no shame. You're allowed to ask questions, You're allowed to like explore, you know, and be like what is what's the purpose of that? Um, he like walks around the house naked half the time, or like swims naked. There's no shame around the naked body. UM. And obviously we give him like rules that you can't go to target naked, but that's not okay, Like this is your safe container and you can you can be there be like that here. UM. As far as like how do you treat people or do you treat people all like a bully? Are you unkind? Are you intentionally trying to cause pain by showing someone something that you know maybe they're not supposed to see? There is material that are that is for adults only, that this falls in that category. He shouldn't be showing you. He shouldn't be watching it himself. Healthy boundaries. You're allowed to say, no, I'm not going to look at your phone. That's not for me. I was a whole person before I had children. I was a sexual person before children. After children, I'm still a sexual person, and that's my right to express that how I want. Um, you know, it's a it's a super complex thing. And think also it's super critical that he has that relationship with his father and then they have that you know, sacred masculine space where they're allowed to talk about me to their dad, and it's truly express how they might not want me to hear and see or whatever, and then then to kind of have that between them and work it out there as well. So it's we'll will tell you when it happens. I have no idea. I just know I loved them to death, and I hope that they don't feel shame around me or their body or their own bodies, and that they are able to kind of set their own healthy boundaries when someone is acting out of line, do you ever, I'm assuming are they in school yet? I guess you said he's three, right, he goes to like a pre k Okay, So what like, what's your relationship with other moms? Do they know this about you? When I find out? Are they like? What like? Do like are you getting judged all the time? So my close friends that have kids already knew, so we you know, we're friends before children. But as far as the school moms, I don't think anyone knows yet. I know it's a matter of time, and I have I have no idea that uncertainty really is something that I struggle with a lot because I'm getting more involved with school and we have these chat groups going on, and like when am I going to get kicked out of the chat group? Like I'm just where I go to text, So when they're like, you're blocked from this right in this group chat? Yeah. I was just wondering if people like women specifically would feel threatened around you, like if that would be heightened for you. I think probably unfortunately, And again you know it has nothing to do with me, and that's easy to say, but it's still going to suck. Um. I guess where I get more emotional and like hope that it doesn't go a potential dark route is where they tell, you know, their kids that they can't play with mine, right suck. Yeah, well, I would imagine a lot of that would probably come from their insecurities around their husband's being attracted to you are, and like, yeah, I mean, look, I'm I don't I don't know your your past, but like, you're obviously incredibly intelligent and well spoken, and I would hope that that is what they receive and they can see past that, because let's face it, there are people like on paper that you know, seem perfect because they their job are they're supposed to do, but they're fucking terrible people and they stay in the chat group because you know, it's like, you know, I just would have hope that the people that you're around and that your friends are, that your kids are friends with, like are just better people than that. You know, it's you're you. You are defying any sort of stereotypes that I would have had um And you know, I think that that's that's why it's important that we like, I don't like to walk through life with judgment. I do think that like society forces judgment on people, and we have to make choices to like what we want to believe in, how we want to conduct ourselves as human beings. And it's important to have conversations with people that are stepping outside of the comfort zone and doing things that are making themselves curious and discovering what's going to make you a whole person, because it makes it really real and it you know, it's I don't know, I'm just like I'm thrilled by this conversation because I think that's like you break the mold, like and it's like, I love that you have a podcast and you're out there like sharing your knowledge with the world, and um so anybody who fuck anyone who kicks you out of the well, I have a question kind of in line with that, but maybe a little bit. It's just more about the stigma. Like I think when people look at people who do porn, they're like, what happened to them as a child? Like, what is the do you hear that a lot? Is that true? Is that true for part of your story? Like we don't know much about your back story. But so to tie together, they've done studies where they've kind of compared control groups and then people that were in some sort of sex work, and like, there's essentially no difference. The only differences were that the people that were in some form of sex work had more more sexual partners obviously, um, increased risk for STDs obviously, and more self confidence. So again it goes through like the moreks THO, sure you have, the more confidence you can get you can gain in whatever you know trade that you're in. But um, as far as did you come from abuse or are you a drug user, are you experiencing homelessness, whatever those things are, there's no difference between the control group and the sex workers. UM. For me, I did have an abusive household growing up. I didn't have a dad for the majority of my childhood. So people are like, ha ha ha of course, but you know that's also fifty not the abuse part, but like having no dad in the home. That's about fifty percent unfortunately of most people. UM, So it's not like fift of people are in porn or intos work. Yeah. So that's just how the chips kind of falled for me or fell for me. UM. I think also, I mean that you can't deny that not having a dad would kind of create some kind of subconscious message of trying to get some kind of male validation or right. Yeah, I don't deny that whatsoever, But I mean you could look at anything are The reason that we are who we are is a constellation of events. So to kind of pinpoint one thing doesn't really make sense. It's like you're almost intentionally trying to connect dots to serve whatever narrative that you want. So I can't say indefinitely it was because my dad left when I was little. No, it's it's a host of things. And also I've really like done a lot of thought exercises and I joked with my husband, um, where there was this movie on Netflix? It was, um, what was it? It was like the girl there's two version to life stories that she was living out and it was essentially, no matter what, you end up where you're supposed to be and was it everything everywhere all at once? No, it was wan. It was this like little blonde girl and she was kind of trying to become a cartoonista. But essentially the point was like, no matter what, your life is going to kind of fall into place. And for me it was no matter what I was going to end up naked on camera, like that was part of my journey. Yeah, I just I just know that in my bones, the only things that would have changed are maybe like certain structures of business deals or maybe like timings of certain things, um, not nothing like really consequential. Yeah. Well, I think that's what's so interesting and that to me, that is what the word expansion really kind of invites people to question, is like, like we all have these journeys and like you said, it's mapped out, and it maybe like yours looks like being naked on camera, Well, my might have looked like something completely different, but it's a similar type of like seeking or you know, chasing the things from our childhood that we're trying to close out or whatever it is. But it's part of our journey. And I think it's so interesting that we get so judgey of other people's journeys to that, Like, as long as you're to me looking at this like growth process of how do I evolve? How do I get to my next thing? Um, it's all really important and it's not my place to say, well, Candice, you should not have done porn to get there, Like, if that's what gets you to get closer to you, great, you know, like it doesn't matter. Does that make sense? No, it totally doesn't. By looking at someone else's mess, you're not focusing on your own. So we must do that as a distraction, right right. Um, well, let's talk a little bit about your podcast. It's called Chatting with Candice. I love your description. I'm just gonna read it really fast. It says, I believe that life is messy and that's okay, that thinking for yourself is rare but necessary, and that we should always be expanding our curiosity. This podcast aims to have conversations that are thought provoking and challenge you to become a critical thinker. To talk a little bit about the podcast. What kind of guests can people look to find on your podcast? I have everything from porn stars to neuroscientists to best selling authors, um, to mathematicians to people that are in politics. I mean it goes everywhere. I recently had UM someone on and we did we talked about psychedelics. I would say a lot of the upcoming guests are really getting into like the divine feminine and kind of like sexual expression and um, like more in in that female energy, find your goddess kind of category. UM, I've had relationship experts on so it's really whatever. I'm kind of like digging into it at that moment, like whatever is like really sparking my curiosity, and I'll get a whole bunch of people and then switch topics or maybe find someone new and then kind of, you know, go on the topic based off of an individual. So it totally depends. Yeah, I was listening earlier. I cannot remember the doctor's name, Laura sort of the p maybe, but she was talking about different kind of sex research that's happening right now and it was fascinating and I can't remember her name, so it's not oh, um, Dr Prouse. Yes, yeah, Yeah, that was a great episode. Um, it's pretty I feel like it's pretty in line with a lot of the stuff we talk about on here, and it's just the same thing we're saying. It's just expanding people's minds and staying curious in life and like what is life here to show us? What are the lessons? So you guys go check that out. It's called Chatting with Candice. I will um put the description in this podcast. I want to ask you one more question, what is a way in your life right now? That you feel like you are expanding. So I'm heavily focusing on the podcast, and that's kind of the evolution when I made the decision to share like I'm Candice, I'm not Eva, you know, with my fans and with the public. That was a huge step for me and no one had really done that before. UM, So I guess the purpose of that was to kind of like drive home Candice is the real person and Eva exists on set and I'm like so much more than what you can google, and just trying to kind of showcase that. UM, my husband and I focus every year on doing something new that kind of challenges us and brings us together a little bit more in a new, unique way. So this year we're doing this thing called Fit for Service and it's with Aubrey Marcus and um like his whole career. So we have like three summits this year and there's like weekly coaching calls and it's just really focusing on the relationship and for us, UM, just like intimacy, Like how can we get radical intimacy because obviously you're with someone for over a decade, you think this is it. We have reached this, you know, the top of the mountain and it's like, no, there's always deeper you can go into relationship and there's always more intimacy to be found. It's like, how can we do that? And especially after having, you know, a second kid and that baby is still very young, re establishing that connection. So that's kind of the theme of this year and expanding through that way my love. Oh yeah, and being a mom too. I'm sure that adding the second child is always a journey of expansion. Yes, well, Canadas, Thank so much for being here. I love talking to you. This is fascinating to me. Um tell the listeners where else they can find you. Yeah, thank you for having me. This is amazing. I really appreciate it. Um. So you can follow me on um any of my socials you go to Chatting with Candas dot Com has all of my Candice socials and the podcast, and then if you want to follow me on Twitter, you can find me at fall in Louivia. You actually have to type it in because I'm shadow band under the old regime and no one will remove it. So yeah, you actually have to type out the whole thing to find me there. Okay, well we'll put all of that in the description of the podcast. Like I said, and again, thank you so much for being here. Thank you