True Romance with Carolina Barlow and Devin LearyThis is the last episode of True Romance, for now. Devin and Carolina are taking a pause but could not possibly be more grateful and moved by the love and support True Romance has received over the past four years. They discuss what they’ve learned from the life changing experience of making this show, what their lives looked like when it started vs now, and of course - the Vanderpump Rules finale and latest episode of Summer House. LOVE TO THE FANS AND TRUE ROMANCE TEAM FOREVER!
Oh, I won't.
Hello, this is Carolina Barlow and this is the last episode of True Romance.
Oh my god. That just made me sad.
I know it's sad. It's a sad day.
I'm Devin Leary by the way, if you haven't heard, and I.
Want to preface this by saying, I someday, and I haven't said this to you, Devin outside of the pod, I someday hope to return to True Romance. I'm in denial about it fully ending. And I'm just like, you know what, one day we will turn our mike's back on.
We'll turn the mike's back on, and we will do whether it's Patreon, whether it's live events, whether it's Yes There, whether.
It's a book, whether it's a magazine like Oprah. Just kidding, but I don't believe. I just have an intuitive feeling and that this is not the end the end, and this is just let's call it a pause.
Let's call it a pause for sure, for.
Sure, because this is too good. Our listeners are too great. And you know, while journaling today and while you know, writing down some things I want to say today, I just kept feeling like I we have more to say there's going to be you know, as Devin and I knock on wood, get married, someday, have kids, some day, I think we're gonna have more to say. And so I see us returning to this podcast, and this is just a pause. As you know, we organize our own state of affairs, and we will definitely work to come back to this.
And by the way, speaking of Oprah, were we silent or were we side silent? No? The ladder were the ladder either? No, neither. We're gonna keep talking somehow, so much.
It's true, somehow, some way, and I see a future of the Patreon and we will get there.
Now, speaking of futures, there is none for vander Pump Rules.
This is the thing that I'm getting spooked out by just the way we are taking pause on the show in terms of how it's timed out. Like, of course, as we have our season finale, if you want to call it that, so does vander Pump Rules, So does Summer House, so does the Valley. You know, we're all winding down the season, and I would like to just touch on vander Pump Rules briefly. We had, of course, the iconic Ariana storming out because her boundaries weren't respected and everyone freaking out because of this. I found this episode to be amazing. I think Brock is the secret enemy. You know, he's the secret villain. I think that Sheena and Lalla are death spread for a paycheck, and so they think that they need to assimilate Tom Sandoval back into the group. Katie Maloney, I'm a Katie apologist. I really love her. I know that some people think she's miserable and toxic and maybe on downers of some sort. Sometimes you know she is talking softly and perhaps learning her words, But I do like how she just doesn't fuck with Sandoval.
Yeah, she's What did she say when your friend's ex.
When a guy fucks over your friend, fuck the guy.
Yes, I completely agree with that statement, and I take back anything I said about Ariana being annoying earlier in the season or being boring, because like Arianna said too, she said, like my message to people who think I'm not being a good reality star, I won Reality Star of the Year last year, and so I guess, yes.
I think I know what I'm doing.
Also, she's the reason, like, let's be real, if Raquel.
Was the one who was fucked over with James, Like if James fucked her kel over with Lalla, we would not have all tuned in the way we did for a Scanda all because we all loved Ariana and supported her and saw her value. The reason we're behind her is because she's easy to get behind, and the reason we're watching is to see what she does next. And it's really shocking how jealous and insecure Shena and Lalla are.
When Laala was like, I'm sorry, just because you're cheated on? Does it make you Beyonce? Does it make you God? And Sheina was literally slapping her on the arming, like and I agree with you, and I agree with.
You and you.
I thought it was really interesting when Ario went on and watch What Happens Live and she said, you know, I think all we are all like the Spice girls. Like I thought we were all, you know, banding together, and only in retrospect did I see that you know, that's not what was happening. And you know, some people were talking about how great this season would have been if all the women had banded together. Yeah, but instead Lala was like, I'm going to go talk to Sandoval and like figure out what's going on with him. And that's the thing too, is that. And I think this is interesting because I think I've done it in relationships before when I was much younger, where I thought, you know, let me investigate what's wrong with this guy, let me get to the bottom of this. And it's like, it doesn't matter when someone's treating you that way. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where they got it from, it doesn't matter what you'd like to diagnose them with. It doesn't matter. They're not treating you well, get out. And I really respect and admire how Arianna is just done with this person, doesn't want them speaking to her.
You know.
Uh.
Some security guard told fans that waited by the stage Dwarf Chicago, like, please do not bring up her ex. I can't imagine if I was trying to move on and people kept on bringing up like the worst thing that ever happened to me.
Yeah, well I really And by the way, you know what Lala and Sheina created. First of all, wait, who said the thing about if she had to film with Randall?
A lot of people are saying that online, like can you imagine if Lala had this film with Randal like she would she wouldn't lose it, like.
Well, what Sheena and Lala got was Tom Sandoval's victory and Feminism's loss, which is when he was like, well, this looks great for me, like that final quote that the MIC's caught of him saying like basically like thanks to Lala and Sina, I look good.
Which a lot of people are comparing to Robert durstk confession at the end of The.
Jinks burping, farting, of course I killed them all. By the way, the Jinks, it's like they're just like dragging out every episode is like all right, and then tune in next week to hear if something actually happened, and it's like, okay, but.
I'll be watching every episode. But what I will say is.
I cannot freaking wait for the reunion. And you know I'm not a reunion person, but this year's vander Pump and Summerhouse reunions are marked on my calendar.
Yes, I cannot wait.
I am actually more excited for the Summerhouse reunion because I cannot wait to see Carl and Lindsay go head to head, mainly because I know Lindsay will destroy him.
Well, so I.
Watch watch what Happens Live this week, and I have to say I hate Carl so much, Like I just think he's so classic man who can't take any accountability. And he's like, I'm a people feezer. I just didn't want to hurt Lindsay, Like, oh sorry, I just didn't want.
To hurt her. It's like you did, and you did hurt her, so I just own it.
Camera's back to break up with her on camera. Yeah, and let's not forget.
Just be like, no, I own it. I hurt her and I strunk.
Andy said, He's like, do you agree with a lot of the viewers who think you're stringing Lindsay along by not being.
Direct with her?
And he's like, I can see what they're saying, but like, trust me, we were in couples therapy. It's like, well, then, why was she so confused every time she's on camera being like I don't know, I just feel like there's something missing there. And also here it was interesting, so I was like, okay. So it was Jesse, Solomon and Carl on Watch What Happens Live and Andy wanted to play a game where he was like, okay, you guys are both single, Like we're going to do Tinder with like the housewives, and so Andy was like putting up pictures of housewives and they were supposed to say like swipe left and swipe right, and Jesse, I think classic classic, like untrained reality star was like being a genuine He's like, no, I swiped left, Like that's not my type.
No, And then eventually was kind of just like these are like older.
Women and I'm like not into them, but Carl every single persons like, oh, yes she's great, swipe right, Yes, I met her at Pravo con Yes, swipe right.
And eventually Jesse was like, come on, Like you can't just say yes to every single person.
It's like, well, that's Carl's whole thing is like not causing any conflict. And by the way, rewatching the old seasons, I will say this and I'm sorry. I'm sorry to target an elderly woman who's been through a lot.
But Carl's mom is the core with everything.
Like there's this episode in season two where all the people, it's like every single cast member brings their parent or like loved one on and they all do a dinner and Carl's mom starts crying about her divorce goes into a separate room with Carl and literally drapes herself over him so like her arms are around him, like they're startancing like a middle school dance. Bit's being like, this is how much I'm dealing with She keeps facetiming him to be like I just had to drop off the divorce contra. It's like she has no boundaries with him. Therefore, he hates women, but he doesn't know how to deal with it, and he like a nice guy, so he's, yeah, basically like taking on complicated women just so he can make them feel bad about themselves because he can't help but hate them.
And then he doesn't know how to handle conflict because he's a baby. So but anyway, on watch what Happens Live.
My whole point was actually to say that Andy said who gets the most heat at the reunion?
And Carl said me, and Jesse said Lindsay.
Interesting. Interesting. I do think it's interesting. There was that one scene in last week's episode or this week's episode rather where literally the guys are sitting together talking about how fucked up Lindsay is, and the girls are sitting together talking about how fucked up Carl is and I don't I root for Lindsay simply because I'm a woman, and I just I'm so unattracted to Carl because of what a victim he is. And I think that is like the lethal combination is that Lindsay is someone who actually victimizes people, like harasses someone when there she's drunk and like, you know, it's just bulligerent, and Carl is someone who's in love with this victim role.
Clearly, Yeah, it's interesting to go back and watch the old seasons because.
The lindsayan Everett dynamic.
He was abusive, Like I'll just say that, at least emotionally, he was like awful to her, and then she would get drunk and be emotionally abusive to him, like and like there's one episode where he comes to a party and has a conversation with her ever and he's like, I want to get back together and she's like okay, and she's like already kind of drunk, and then she gets wasted and he they're like hanging out and he goes outside to say something to Carl and she's like, if you want to get back together with me, you better not look at a single other person. And like is like crying, screaming at him because he like left her for one second, and then the next episode she's like, okay, guys, I left my body and I wasn't myself. Sorry, Okay, moving on, It's my birthday, and she like just doesn't bring it up, I know, And so I think I think she.
It's hard.
It's like if she had never started drinking again, she probably would just come out on top in this whole thing, like she would just be like, Okay, you're the one who's the asshole, you don't actually want to marry me whatever. But because she started drinking, there's like a finger to point and then she like does erratic things and it's like okay, but I feel like he is trying to like the conversation where she it's like she just comes into the kitchen. He's like, hey, so I wanted to tell you that, like I'm actually doing this, Like he's kind of like trapping her into an intense conversation and that's unfair. But then it's also unfair to say, like you ruined my birthday, you ruin my day, you ruin my night, Like I'm gonna go cry now.
Well that's the key thing is that they don't like each other, you know, like Lindsey clearly gets excited when people are talking shit about Carl or like pointing.
Out, you know, boy, have I been there? Boy have I been there?
And that's a sign that you do not belong with someone if when they're like, oh, well, I think it's really fucked up that you're, you know, like partner does this, and you're not inclined to defend your partner, you're like yes, yes, And Sierra does say it well where she's like, how can you be attracted to someone when you're the one who's taking care of everything?
Yes?
Yes, yes, And that's true And it's either way. It's not like I'm not being you know, heteronormative when.
I say that.
I if a guy is taking care of everything and I'm not doing anything like, I probably wouldn't feel attracted, no attractive, you know, I would just feel like depressed. And I think you really have to have a partnership where you both feel like you're pulling some weight. But I have been like the partner who is doing the emotional labor to keep the relationship afloat, and that is really hard to.
Yeah, it's also like again, as I said before, like going back and watching old episodes, Like it's completely understandable and fine to me, Like the idea of like being with someone who's like pursuing something they really care about, but like as a result, they like don't have a steady job because they're trying to figure out like this dream that they have or something, but like just kind of aimlessly like bopping through life doing like in the beginning, he's doing all these sales jobs, keeps getting fired and then lands at lover.
Boy and he's like wasted and like showing up on drugs.
Then he gets sober and he's still like can't find a job or figure it out. And I feel like it's like an ego thing, Like I feel like what's really bothering her is because he's not willing to. Like I had this issue with a boyfriend of my early twenties who, like you said, like at the time, my friends would like make fun of him or say things about him because we were in like the same social circle. And I was like, I completely agree, Like I was like, I don't respect anything, Oh trust me, I do not respect anything going on here.
And they're like, but you are in the relationship, so it seems like you do.
And then that same person like lost his job and it was like I don't care that you like don't have a job, but like he was said things like I can't just have like a nine to five, Like I can't just be like sitting at a desk. And it's like, okay, so you're like too full of yourself to think of yourself as anything besides like the star, and that's the problem. And like I'm kind of getting that sense from Kyle.
I mean Carl right.
I think he thinks he's like this like superior, like God, just because he stopped doing coke and drinking. And it's like, no, you still have to like humble yourself enough to be like how am I going to be a working member of like a relationship and society as a whole.
Yeah, it's fascinating. I also, to just jump around a little bit, I wanted to talk about the fight that Amanda and Kyle got into MM, which is talk about not liking each other. Like I actually think Kyle really loves Amanda. I just think Amanda resents the hell out of Kyle and like can't stand him, and you know, she kind of tearfully decides with Page and Sierra that she wants to do her own thing and just sort of take care of parts of herself. And Sierra points out like all she has is lover boy and Kyle, and that makes Amanda emotional, and she kind of confesses, Oh, I want to start a swimwear line, which is very much, you know, a Bravo star thing to do, Like how are you going to capitalize on your role on television? You need to start a business, you know. I mean, I think it's so funny that Craig is like the most successful at this because he literally started like the stupidest company of all time, which is just Plow Down so Sewing Down South, And like, I love Craig. He makes the ugliest pillows I've ever seen in my life.
No, truly, I actually like, for someone's birthday or something, I was like, oh, I think it'd be funny to get them like a crag pillow, and then I like looked at the website and was like, I wouldn't like noliest thing I've ever Keeping a Sewing Down South pillow to someone becomes like a plight on their life because then you have this like heinous pillow and you like feel guilty to throw it away because people are dying.
But it's like, I don't want this like picture of a lobster on.
A right pillow in my house, like a picture of a pineapple.
It just is horrific. It's so bad.
But Amanda decides, you don't want to start a swimmerline for women with big boobs, which to me, I'm like, oh wow, yes, the women with big boobs are really suffering.
I know.
So when she first said that, I was like, Okay, what, but then I realized, like, yeah, that actually is like what they all do. It's like Jesse James Decker had like one season of a reality show on E and now she has like a swimwear empire.
Basically, yeah, I do think Amanda is really talented at design, Like lover Boy merch sells out all the time, and the lover Boy like packaging actually looks good and it's probably like the only cool thing about it. But yeah, Nevertheless, she tells Kyle this, and I truly think she had no idea how badly this was gonna go, because Kyle immediately is like, well, we are suffering, we are really struggling. And I really need your help. And she's like, well, I wouldn't quit lover Boy or leave. I would just you know, start doing my own thing. And he's like okay, and I hear you, but I really need you and she's like, no, I know, I just and he's basically just like bullying her to stay at lover Boy and just keep saying like how much he needs her instead of, you know, hearing what she has to say, which is that she needs to do something for herself. Then they're in the kitchen later and he's like, I want to talk to you about this and and she says what I'm like, oh my god, this is such a good toxic relationship. She's like, I just don't think tonight's the night, meaning like I don't want to have a huge fight with you right now. And he's like, well, I'm sorry, I was just thinking about and she goes yourself and his face drops and he walks away goes fuck you, which as I was watching it, my mom was in the room and I was like, oh, I wouldn't have a boyfriend who would talk to me this way. Like I've been in toxic relationships before, and you know, in my early twenties, a guy would say stuff like that to me, like go fuck yourself, fuck you, like give me the middle finger and stuff, and like, I just think that's like really abusive to like speak to your partner that way and you're married and you're telling your wife fuck you, Like I'm sorry to make this a big deal, but I really think that matters. Then he has a full mental breakdown in front of Carl and Danielle or no, sorry, was it Carl Danielle or Carl and.
Gabby but Carlin Danielle.
I think he yell, do you know what I want to do?
I want to be a DJ.
I want to be a DJ, and it was yeah, and if you were my employee, meaning Amanda, you would be fucking fired.
Oh and by the way, when Carl and Jesse went on Watch What Happens Live, they like talked about Kyle's DJing in a serious way and they're like, he actually has a DJing gig like this weekend and like watch out James Kennedy. So I was like, wait, this is becoming a thing, like lover boy must not be doing well because like why is he doing that? But also so not to be constantly like the historical expert on this show.
But I am currently rewatching it, and I do have to say that.
And by the way, when I visited my friend Haley and Seattle, I made her watch like the first season of Summerhouse because I want her to binge it. And when she found it, she's like searching through Hulu like to try to find it, and I go, there it is, and she said, you said that like you were looking at your firstbornch.
Like, ah, there he is.
I was like so excited, but she was getting upset while we're watching it, and she's like, this is just upsetting to me because like they're our age and they're like drinking this way, like it'd be one thing if they're twenty, and I'm like, oh, trust me, they are forty currently and still doing that. But there's an episode in season two where this is like, so, this is actually one of the most sinister things I've ever experienced. They go on a party bus, Kyle gets wasted, peas into a wine bottle on the bus, like takes out his penis on the bus and peas into a wine bottle, fills it up, and says, does anybody want Pino Grigio and cut to they get.
Home, he leaves the bottle on the bus.
Amanda has to take the bottle and empty it into the toilet, presumably because she doesn't want like the driver of the bus to.
Have to do that, and she goes outside to tell Kyle.
She says, if you're gonna pee into a bus on the bus, get rid of it right away. Not even like, if you're going to be an adult, acceptable human being, please do not urinate in front of people on a car where you're all sharing the car. Like She's like, so, if you're gonna do that, like clean it up yourself. And then he gets so mad at her that he screams at her and says, summer is supposed to be fun, Amanda, not fun, and like Lee like, and I'm like the fact that she marries this man, the fact that she is married to this man, and the fact that he's screaming at her about wanting to be a DJ and firing her is actually one of the worst controversies in American human being history in my opinion.
It's so crazy, and she's so beautiful and he's so heinous.
I know she's so that was the thing too, Like.
My friend when watching it was like I wouldn't like sleep with any of these men if they were the last people on earth. Like they're not attractive, they're so trying too hard, they're so embarrassing their children, and yet this like stunning. All the women are so stunning. Like it's just so confusing.
I know, I'm always like I'm embarrassed for Page and I guess Danielle. I didn't even know Danielle dated him. That everyone's hooked up with Carl, Like that's embarrassing to me.
No, it's really embarrassing. It's really bad. It's really bad.
And like when I was watching that mom scene where he's like embracing his mom and she's like draping herself over.
Him, crying.
I remember in the next season that Page will be the one to say, like you can tell a lot about a guy about the with the way he treats his mom. It's like, yeah, and pay close attention there, you might want to look a little deeper.
There is that how Page comes in is that she's hooking up with Carl.
No, she comes in and is like, I it's kind of funny.
In season three, like the way they all come in because I am like eternally fascinated by Hannah Berner just because I'm like, what's the deal here?
Like everyone seemingly like hated her when she left the show, and now she like debatably more successful than all of them, because she's like.
Most Bravo celebrities, Like now she has actually like a successful stand up career and has like a Netflix special.
But then she's like married to that guy who seems so lame and weird.
I know, to get a divorce, Okay.
So basically whatever.
So Hannah, Paige, and a pathological liar named Jordan who's Christian and like clearly gay but lies about it all come in together and they're like, we're all friends and where you all are like influencers, Like we all work for a media company and we're influencers.
And then Lindsay and.
Danielle are like, okay, these new girls like don't know anything.
And Amanda becomes friends with Paige and whatever.
But Paige comes onto the show and Carl is like immediately interested in her, and she like plays hard to get and then eventually they make out like twice, and then.
He's like you let me on whatever, and she's like what I can do whatever I want.
Very interesting. Also, there's like a epidemic of veneer on this show.
Okay, So I.
Have spend so much time trying to figure out why Carl looks so much worse now than he does in the past seasons, and I think it's the Veneers, and also that he's way too manicured now, Like he does this weird haircut where he gels it back and it's just too much. But when he was like more natural, like kind of hungover every day, he looked better.
Yeah.
I remember seeing during the Vanderpump crossover that initially birthed Summer House. I remember seeing where Kyle famously tells Stossy that she looks like Steve Jobs because she's wearing a turtleneck bathing suit and Carl actually looks hot and it's chilling.
It is so upsetting.
Yeah, I'm very interested to see what this reunion looks like. I'm interested in West and Sierra's relationship and the disintegration of it. Clearly they're not together anymore. And what interests me is that I don't think Sierra likes West. I think she likes having like a guy, Like she's very excited, like oh, I'm gonna go sayhead to my booth bang. And she's just like always like arm draped around him and stuff, but won't have sex with him, Like I don't know, there's just something, but then calls him her his like her boyfriend, and I can't tell how much Wes like Sierra too. I think he just wants to get laid really badly, but he seems freaked out when he like she calls him her boyfriend. I don't know, I'm it's interesting.
I know, like he really lost me this past up.
I was kind of holding out hope for him, and he is in my TikTok algorithm and he is charming, but this week when he did the thing of like, well, it's scary to like be in a relationship because you could like either get hurt or have to get married, and like both are scary, and it's like, all right, I'm done with you.
I just don't.
I'm I can't, I can't.
I can't.
And I believe Jesse Salomon, especially after this week. I really believed in him, but then he was so like weird least standing Carl in the Watch What Happens Live episode, I was like, you're choosing the wrong heroes. Yeah, not that there's any heroes to be had in this world, but I mean.
I guess Craig would be a good I was gonna say, Craig is the only one who's shown growth, which is you know, really hard to see in a lot of people, which is.
Historically rare in humans. Growth.
It's so true. I want to transition to talking about the end of this podcast. Oh, this podcast, and I just want to talk about like some things that this podcast has taught me and where I was and where I am now, and I can't believe it's been four years. That seems insane, and I just well, I first want to just say to our listeners and the ones who have written in expressing their sadness about the podcast being over, like this podcast just wouldn't mean anything to me if it weren't for our listeners who have expressed that they identify with us and that they you know, that this has helped them through breakups, that this has helped them realize what they deserve. You know, that is something I'm immensely proud of and grateful for. And it makes me realize that this needed to be a podcast that people needed to hear this and a lot of the times, and I'll just speak for myself, when we were saying things out loud, it was as if we were talking to ourselves, you know, and reminding ourselves of what we deserved. I don't think that it was stuff that I innately believed until I had to speak to it, if that makes sense totally.
And I think this podcast has really like altered my belief in myself because I think we both came about it from a place of like total authenticity in terms of like thinking about what we're going to say and how we're going to say say it, and like wanting to be completely honest, like to the best of our ability. And so it is really scary to like do that and like broadcast how you really feel about a person or yourself or situations, especially when that's like constantly changing, and it's like really hard to be a woman in this world or a person in this world and like share about yourself vulnerably. But like the way people responded really validated my belief in myself and helped me like grow in that way. And I think like a lot of people wrote in and said like they looked forward to like just hearing us, like the idea that anyone looked forward to, like hearing us talk on a Thursday morning, and like hearing our perspective and that's just like, so that's something I will sorry to be corny cherish forever. And I think shows like I really believe when anyone is like vulnerable about how they're feeling, the community around them is benefited from that. And I think that the way we've gone about this podcast kind of like proves that, like.
And I think that there have been times when people cannot handle my vulnerability. And when I say people, I mean like partners'.
Wait are you talking about the trolls and the reviews and by the way, Republican people who said that we are man hating and whatever we are, and that's okay.
I think that I've dated people who don't want me to express insecurity, don't want me to express you know, trauma. And it's not like they've told me shut up or anything like that, but I've dated people who just can't handle that. And you know, I can understand, like maybe you don't overshare on the first date, but if you're in a relationship with someone for years, it's okay. To be vulnerable and it's okay to express insecurity.
You know.
I was dating someone who when I expressed insecurity over his last partner, he was like, well, I want you to be confident as in and I was like, oh, okay, Like I guess I could fake that. And you know, I have mixed feelings because I think as a therapist has told me, like, you shouldn't necessarily go to a partner like they're a well of self esteem and like basically ask them to fill your cup. But at the same time, like, if you're being vulnerable with someone you know, you should feel like that is a safe place.
Yes, And by the way, this brings up Summer House yet again, my whole life being Summer House and everything, Like I basically live and breathed Summerhouse. And yes, I am terrified that I'm almost done rewatching ceas in two, which means that I'll be done rewatching the whole thing and I'll have nowhere to go. But it's interesting what you just said, because in season one, Lindsey is with Everett and he straight up tells her to shut up when she's like talking about her feelings. He'll say shut up, and he'll be like, oh my god, what are you talking about? Like stop talking, you sound insane like that. Okay, flash forward. Now she's with Carl and in a different way, he is trying to make her feel like she needs to be smaller than herself and she's the problem and he's gaslighting her. And the perfect example to what you were just saying, like she when they're having the conversation about lover boy, She's like, I'm not gonna just be like a yes man, which I really related to. It's like I feel like a lot of times like I am someone who is like an over communicator, like wants to get to the bottom of things, wants to deal now, wants to like talk about what's actually happening, And that's how I am in every area of my life. Like I feel like creatively, I'm that way. I feel like with my friends, I'm that way. Like if I'm trying to be friends with you and you're talking about boring small talk by like hanging three, like.
We are not gonna connect.
I need to be knowing about your deepest, darkest traumas almost immediate for us to have a real relationship. And that's just how I am. If someone's vibe is off, I need to know why. And I feel like sometimes dating, especially straight man, they want somebody to be like, oh good, everything's good, no worries, Like, let's just pretend it ever happened.
Let's just yesterday didn't exist.
It's cool, Like whatever you want to do, Okay, you want to start a sober sports bark, Cool, you want to be a voice in the sober community.
Whatever. Cool, you could do anything you want.
And she's like, that's just not me, Like, I'm just gonna tell you what I really feel. Sometimes what she really feels maybe not expressed in the best.
Way, maybe just like a Martini talking. But you know, yes, I did hear her in that moment where she said, I'm going to brand to you things you've told me. And yeah, I think it's interesting watching the Carl Job journey because men are so sensitive about their egos and that's so connected to money and work. Yeah, it's like when you see a celebrity couple, whenever the woman is getting more successful and whenever the guy is struggling with his career, you know they're headed for a breakup. And that's just not true if the sexes are reversed, so true. I know, I just wanted to talk a little bit on a few things that I feel like I've learned doing this podcast, and I wanted to start with that being single is not an emergency, and I felt that people in our societ treated as such. It's something I'm asked constantly if I'm dating anyone and I'm not, and I'm still allowed to be happy and fulfilled. I'm still allowed to feel fulfilled, you know, and I have I think being sober being someone who has a lot of scars and is hesitant about like like I mean, if you're listening, can you imagine getting naked with someone completely sober and them seeing like very deep scars on your body, Like it's an intensely vulnerable thing to do. So I don't just it's very hard for me to do casually, impossible, impossible for me to imagine doing casually. So you know, I typically stay single until I have like really strong feelings about someone, and that's just the truth about me, and that is something that's absolutely okay. I do not have to date for the rest of my life if I don't want to, and at the same time, I do want to, and so I'm working to I'm working to like really try to open up more. But it can happen on my timeline and it doesn't have to happen on other people's timeline. When we started this podcast, I was about two years out of a really severe car accident that had left me with like severe PCSD. And now in the year twenty twenty four, six years after this car accident, I've just started driving again and I don't go on highways yet. I just go on you know, surface streets. But I say that because it happened on my own timeline, and I did, you know, get encouragement from people and some pressure from like friends that this is something that I should like push myself to do, and that did help. But I, you know, sometimes now driving I'm like, oh, why didn't I just like start doing this three years ago? And my answer is because I wasn't ready and I'm not going to you know, beat myself up for that. And so I feel like it's similar to data where it's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that until I'm ready, and it's the right person. Off of that, I wanted to say, like, I think thanks to this podcast, thanks to the people you interviewed. Thanks to talking to you so often, I've realized that I'm allowed to set my bar high and that since I was a child, I have felt like I'm I should be grateful for any guy expressing interest in me. Yes, and I should be grateful for any guy willing to spend time with me. And it's why, especially in my early twenties, even if guy said something that was not okay, you know I you know, like my boyfriend when I was twenty one twenty two said he sympathized with how much hate George Bush got, I felt like, well, I am lucky someone even wants to walk around with me. And now, even though knowing that like my life comes with complications, I have decided I want a real partner and I'm allowed to want the whole package. And that doesn't mean someone perfect, but that means someone who's okay with me getting completely vulnerable, who wants me to be completely vulnerable, who wants to take care of me just as much as I want to take care of them. You know, who's kind, who's funny, who's smart, who's tall? I'm not even like a married to the tall part, but like who I'm attracted to, because sometimes when I'm on online like dating apps, I'll be like, oh, I'm not really attracted to them, but like maybe right, And it's like, no, I can wait till someone I'm really attracted to. Right, just deserve someone that I want. It sounds very basic, but I don't have to settle for anyone who is not there for me fully. And I think past relationships have really, you know, been necessary because they show me what I need. And I think I've never had someone who was fully on my team, you know, I've never had someone who would choose me over their friends. And I am realizing, like how much I deserve that one percent?
Is it my turn?
Yeah?
I loved everything you said, And it's so crazy to think about where we were at four years ago. Like I think what's interesting is when we started the podcast, I actually thought I was in like an amazing place, Like I was like, I am good, I figured it all out.
Like I was.
Living with so much self loathing that I didn't understand that. I like thought I was doing great and was just like between different forms of validation. So like when I when we started the podcast, I had a boyfriend who was currently like you know, presenting a persona of like being perfect basically, which is a red flag when someone is too perfect in the beginning, and so I kind of was like, yeah, like I don't know, I don't think I have any problems. And then when he turned on me and started being I'm not perfect, yeah, like psychotic, then I was like, oh, how is it that I'm suddenly like feeling complete worthlessness on the floor and crying and like I need to get this person's love back or else I don't matter. And I think, like I said, like this podcast helped me like have worth in myself and my voice and like everything that I have to bring to the table authentically, which.
Is my voice, I guess, and that really helped me.
In addition to real like intensive psychodynamic therapy like cognitive behavioral therapy EMDR, all this like really intense work that I had to do to learn how to like actually love myself, this podcast was a way that I like found worth and started to value myself in a different way. And so when you were talking, I was really inspired by what you said about like the difference between when this podcast started and now like you're driving again, Like that's amazing, and I think like I remember when we first started the podcast that you were like not ready to even talk about like your injuries and your experiences that much or like open up about it. And now you're so open about it, and so many people have like written in with like gratitude about that, and I think that's like a lesson for everyone about vulnerability. And I heard a lot in what you said of like self compassion. That's like one of the other biggest things I've learned through the process of this podcast. I think, like it's a lot it's really easy for me to have like compassion for you or for our listeners, but it's always been like nearly impossible for me to have compassion for myself. But like you said, like it's like, okay, my experience, like what you shared, like your experience meeting someone is different than anyone else's experience meeting someone, and that's okay, and that that can be that way. And I think I my biggest challenge is like it's okay if I'm struggling right now, it's okay. If I'm not, it's okay if I you know, I really sincerely have a belief now, which is like remarkable to me.
That I'm like, yeah, if I end up alone, like I'll be okay.
Like I love myself enough that I know that's okay, and also that I know that that doesn't have to be the case if I don't want it to. Like I know that I can have love that I deserve. And it's not because I like stumbled upon like the right person, or it's like because I deserve that. And I work really hard to be like the best version of myself. And I think, yeah, like consistently showing up one week to talk earnestly about relationship dynamics, whether they were ours or deranged alcoholics on TV has really been like a form of therapy in a way for me. And I'm going to have to replace it with something I don't know what.
Yeah, it's really shaped, you know, my compass or made me a compass of you know, directing me towards what I want.
Yeah.
And I went on a date. I said, you know, my New Year's resolution was to go on one date. I did. I was ecstatic when that person didn't call her text. I was like, that's fine, you know, like that means nothing about me. And you know that's all because of this podcast and something too that I still struggle with letting go of people and just closing the door on old chapters of my life. And this past year I've really been doing that. You know. I don't stock anyone's Instagram. I don't, you know, I rarely bring up my exes by name. I just call them my exes. And why I do that, why I don't look on the Instagram, why I try not to obsess, is because I want what's meant for me and I don't want to keep holding a place for what's clearly not meant for me. And I think, you know, I want to basically metaphorically keep a seat open for what's there for me. And if i'm can, if I keep looking at the past, you know, I think me and my boyfriend when I was nineteen, we broke up, and I think I spent the next two years thinking about him and missing him and being obsessed with loving him hating him, you know, YadA, YadA, YadA, And that is was serious wasted time. And I you know, am now how someone who's really thinking about you know how much I want kids, how I want to raise a family. You know, that's something you know at thirty four, that's really on my mind. And you know, I froze my eggs. I really prepared for that to happen tomorrow or in five years. And I am, you know again, like looking for someone to do that with and not desperately. I'm not going to do that with someone that I'm not crazy about. And if anything, you know, looking back on past relationships, I see why I couldn't do that with someone.
Yeah.
So I'm just taking my life and my time more seriously, and a part of that is closing the door to the past.
Well, I still struggle with Instagram talking, but here's to a better tomorrow.
I don't think that it's like evil or you're like bad, or you're like not going to get what's coming for you if you do it.
I neither do I.
No, I'm just saying it's not like it's evil or anything.
I don't think you're that's what you were thinking.
No, I'm just saying, like, I don't think it's like smoking or something. I don't think it's like, oh, well you better stop doing that. Like if you want to have like a good relationship or like your partner that's coming to you. I just mean for me, it was something that I would do with longing, and I don't have room to long for someone who didn't make me a priority.
Yes, and I but I see what you're saying, Like even I unfollowed this person, like I don't I literally don't even know who they are, Like I worked with them like years ago, and it was just like they posted like some kind of like just like bitchy review about like a restaurant or something where I was like, okay, like this is so negative and weird and why are you Like I don't know, And I just was like I so subconsciously take in all this stuff that like makes me feel bad about myself, and I just like passively am like yep, taking this in, taking that in, And I do need to think more about that. I also think, like along with the self compassion stuff, like I think there's no comparison that is healthy, and like I think it's hard not like when with Instagram and stuff and social media, like it's hard not to just like compare yourself, like I should be over this. That person's dating someone new now, this is like whatever, and it's like everyone's on their own journey and if you can just like do your best today whether that's like, oh, I searched him on Instagram once today as opposed to three times yesterday. It's like, that's cool, that rules, And I wish I had something more profound to say than that.
But no, I think you're right. I like that no comparison is healthy.
I really do.
I think that's really helpful for me to hear because it's something that I still struggle with. And I think my resolution for the future is to find a way to bring this podcast back that goes without saying, you know, I want to write something with you and continue our creative journey together that's been you know, a decade plus. Yeah, And I want to invest more time in friendships. You know, I think the pandemic has made was really hey, hot take. The pandemic was hard for me. I don't know if if everyone else had a good time.
And she's never even had COVID and still the pandemic was well.
But I think I've been on such a survival track and so much of my social life was you know, my exes, that I really want to invest in relationships because I really think that you need those as a woman to survive.
Yes, And by the way, off that I think when we were talking about summer house, like Lindsay goes outside and the girls are like, come sit with us, like talk us through this. Looking back, all of my most formative experiences in relationships have been guided by like the guardian angelship of my friends, if that makes sense. Like I remember a time when I was like asking you, like should I move to LA or stay and pursue my career or stay with this like boyfriend that I've had since I was twenty two where we're like fighting all the time, and like all you said was like you didn't tell me what to do, but you were like, oh, this is like a podcast. I listened to a Cheryl Strade podcast and I thought it was helpful and like just like little pieces of support and advice that helped me be like, Okay, what am I really thinking of doing here? Like giving up what I believe in and want for myself for this guy that I like can't stop arguing with, and that like everything happens for a reason, but tools really help, and like I think friends, sometimes I get embarrassed for being too much of a burden because I ask constantly for advice for my friends, But it is a.
Really really really id like tool.
For me in terms of processing what's happening, like I'm someone who has to talk it out, like this is what just happened this morning, what do you think? And that helps me see most importantly like my part in something and second most importantly like how another person is making me feel. And so my resolution is to not feel guilty for asking for help. And number one number two, like you said about deserving like a partner who's on your team, Like, my resolution is to be my own.
MVP.
Sorry to be cheesy, but to be like my most important team member to myself, like I'm defending myself.
I'm staying with myself.
I'm in my corner and I'm holding on to my reality at all costs, and whether that reality is delusional is up to me.
And I'm love now.
Thanks you've ruined my pool day, and thanks for ruining my pool party.
I'm gonna go cry and like the classic one of the most one of the most iconic Lindsay lines in history, I'm gonna go sleep in a bed with the guy or what is it, I'm gonna I'm gonna go spend the night in a.
Bed with a guy.
See how you feel about that, which is really not something you should ever say to your romantic partner, but is iconic.
No, it's why she's iconic. It's why I can't wait for the reunion. I can't wait to see what you wears to the reunion. I have a feeling it will be sheer.
Well, maybe we should do a Patreon episode about the two reunions.
I don't know.
I don't know, but this story isn't over.
The story isn't over.
And by the way, shameless plug, my substack is for the drama dot substack dot com. That's the number for the th drama d r A m A dot substack dot com.
Just by the way, and it's great. Thanks all right, until next time, we will find you our listeners again and we'll keep you posted. But in the meantime, and it's hard to say this, no, but I love you Devin, love you Carol, and I love all our listeners out there, me too, love you guys. Thanks for tuning in.
Ohted, I won't true true true suits, so romantic
Love me, baby, don't leave me, haggin, I won't true
