The Therapy for Black Girls Podcast is a weekly conversation with Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed Psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, about all things mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
It’s Sex Positive September, and in celebration, we're diving back into our catalog to when Dr. Lexx Brown-James joined us to discuss Black women’s sexuality agency and pleasure. When this episode was initially released, Cardi B & Meg the Stallion had just dropped WAP and the single set the internet on fire. In a new timely release, Meg and Cardi are back with another hit, "Bongos,” a sex-positive anthem perfect for celebrating Sex Positive September. In this episode, Dr. Lexx and I tackled the stereotypes often associated with Black women's sexuality, shame, respectability politics, and agency's role in sexual liberation. We also explored ways to confront our sexual shame and foster healthier attitudes toward sexuality for the next generation.
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Listen to Dr. Lexx dispel the myth that relationships have to be hard work in Session 164 of the podcast.
Listen to Dr. Lexx discuss getting rid of sexual shame on Session 55 of the podcast.
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Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me for session three twenty five of the Therapy from Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. The reviews for Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish reading this warm hug of a book last night, and while it made me want to hug my sister friends so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how we as black women can use our community and friends to aid in our healing process. Thank you so much for the beautiful review.
Have you grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com. It's sex positive September, and in celebration, we're diving back into our catalog. So when Doctor Lex Brown James joined us to discuss Black women's sexuality, agency and pleasure. When this episode was initially released, Cardi b and Meg the Sallion had just dropped Wop and the singles set the Internet on fire. Well, Meg and Cardi are back, this time with another hit, Bongos, a sex positive anthem that is just perfect for sex positive September. In this episode, Doctor Lex and I tackled the stereotypes often associated with Black women's sexuality, shame, respectability, politics, and agencies role in sexual liberation, and we explored ways to confront our sexual shame and foster healthier attitudes towards sexuality for the next generation. Press play on this episode and let's celebrate sex positive September. Thank you so much for joining us again today, doctor Lex.
Thank you for having me back. I love it here.
We're always happy to have you back. I really appreciate you sliding into my dms, Like, Hey, can we talk about this you.
Have created just touch the per perfect platform.
So tell me lex what was your initial reaction to the visuals as well as audio.
So in my chest, my reactions were my knee still got it. That's what I thought initially, like I could drop down and get back up, and I didn't fall out, nor did I die. So I was really proud of myself out of that. And it was so free. There was a nineties nostalgia. You know, I grew up in Atlanta, I grew up in College Park, so here in Frank Ski on the radio was normal and regular every morning, and I was like, look at this homage, look at this homage, and that was unexpected. And then all of the commentary and it's all based on this over sexualization of black women. And I was like, Okay, let's see where this goes. But everybody only defaulted to this over sexualization of the black women based on this Jezebel stereotape. The Jezebel stereotpe is the idea that black women typically our class figured, lighter skin and with some type of non kinky hair. I think the mulatto type woman is sexually overt and think Carmen Jones, right, so Carmen in that movie would be the idea of a Jezebel. But people forget the conversation where black women and their sexualization. They're also sexualized as Mammy's so fat, dark skinned black women who have kink gear hair, who are considered not necessarily sexual, right because they're not the Jezebel, and yet they reproduce and take care of children. And then there's also the Sapphire, And the Sapphire is comes from Amos and Andy right and is considered that kind of ballbuster type woman who is like, oh, well, you can't handle me, and attitudinal and think maybe like a Claire Huxtable type, I will tell you when we will be together in this way. And then there's the superwoman, So the Black superwoman, this idea that black women can make a dollar out of fifteen cents and take care of the communities and their children and their partners and their job and they're never exhausted or tired and always have this pleasant attitude and considered asexual right because they're so strong and they don't even need sex, and nobody's willing to like really broach them because they don't need to have this physical pleasure or satisfaction in their lives. We have all of these other stereotypes and the only one that people wanted to focus on was the Jezebel And I was like, huh, well that's pigeonholing.
So why do you think that is? Do you think that people aren't even aware of all of these other stereotypes.
I think they're aware, but I don't think that their sexuality is as amped up. And I think that a black woman in charge of her own sexual pleasure is scary for some folks. We have a lot of shame. I was personally told as a child to call my vagina a pocketbook because I am a Southerner, and you keep your pocketbook closed and you keep it off the floor. Right, those are the two things you learned. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. Why would it ever be on the floor. But the idea that if you have this own sexual pleasure, you're some type of hope, you're some type of one time over sexualized quote unquote, not wifey material. H Right, And so I don't think the other ones get as much play because they are somewhat more acceptable.
Yeah, because the sexuality, like you said, is not as overt so it might be okay for those things to be happening, but everybody doesn't know about it. Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of the commentary I saw doctor Lex was around just this whole idea, like is this appropriate especially right now right? So people it felt like we're you know, offended or really shocked, especially given everything that's happening in the world right now that we have this overly sexual you know, like women reclaiming their sexuality or claiming their sexuality in a way that feels like it might not fit with like everything going on in the world right now, right.
And my question is when better? When better to do it while we are having movements towards black liberation and freedom, right when we are having more time maybe to ourselves at home to have these conversations, When better to talk about what sexual liberation looks like. I've had clients who didn't know what the different parts of their role are were. They're calling their clitterists a third nipple, right, or scared to say any of the words that are in WAW right, especially the pee part. They can't say that word out loud or they whisper it very low. Yeah, because of the shame and that we've not supposed to talk about this, and they suffer in their sex lives. They don't say this isn't pleasurable, or this hurts or I really want to try doing this a different way because they don't think they're allowed to. They don't have that permission and nobody ever gave them that permission. Mm hmm.
You know, doctor Lex, you talked about sexual shame, right, Like, I know a lot of your work sensors on that. So I want to hear you talk more about like how that shame does play out, because I don't think that people necessarily recognize that what they're experiencing in their reaction to this video or other things is shame.
Child Look, because the interweaves are talking and the level of respectability politics, and I've triped this a couple of times online at this point. Right, So, the idea that black women are inherently sexual and they get over sexualized, and it's true, there is the adultification of young black girls, and there's an adultification of black males too. They're sexual from puberty and they want sex, right, is a misnomer and it is put on black bodies undoubtedly this conversation and WOP are two different conversations. We're talking about being able to enjoy pleasure, so vasal congestion, big fun words because I like dropping big fun words. Here is when the genitals are actually blood and it can happen from an allergy, it happen from arousal. It can happen because like you just need extra bloodslow in that region. For some reason, canal starts to lubricate during arousal and excitement. Right, and the vaginal canal can even change colors a lighter pink to a deeper red or a crimson or even a purple. Right because it is saying like I'm excited for this, we can start to own that it is okay for you to have pleasure and a society that's been taught that you're not supposed to have pleasure, you're supposed to sell sacrifice for goodness, and for black women specifically, because some colonizers saw some bare breasted African women on the coast and was like, oh, they must have sex all the time because their breasts are always out, and because they felt aroused by seeing this, by seeing this natural state of being and the body in this way, they posited that on those African women, and that is the narrative that has been used to scapegoat abuse of Black women and girls throughout time. And so to fight back against that narrative, it's you have to be as prim and proper as possible, because this is what world already believes about you. And WOP takes that and throws it out the window, saying like, why am I gonna go I'm gonna decolonize my perspective? Why do I have to believe what these people have said about me all the time? Why do I have to be this way to be respected? You know?
Brionna Holt had a beautiful quote. So she just wrote a piece for Complex all about Wow, and she says black women have little to no control of how society views us with or without party. In Megan's collab, black women shaking their butts and describing their sex life and music is not what says black women back. It's the people who justify harm toward us because of these actions.
Mm hm.
And that sounds like what you're talking.
About exactly exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying, right, And we see that in rape culture, right. Well, she was wearing a short streat she was asking for it, or she drank too much at a party, or she's had sex with this many people, so it must have meant that she wanted it. Now, when we think about again the dultification of young black girls, it's oh, well, she's developed enough, her body is ready, And I'm like, that's not what this is. This is literally saying I can enjoy my body. I feel empowered through the pleasure of my body, and I know what pleases my body, and there's power in that and starting to recognize that power that is being owned, you.
Know, do I feel like that?
Is?
Another part of what I have been observing is people talking about, well, how is this not a continuation of the conversation of the adultification of black girls, Like what kind of message is descending to our young black girls?
M hm, Well, part of it is when you've grown, you got grown folks business, right, grown.
Folks business at the facing level.
And so growing up, I had an interesting childhood and a very liberal parent. So I learned about a lot about sex and sexuality, which was amazing because it helped me right So to Studies show that the more that kids learn about sexuality so not just intercourse, not just penetration, but whole sexuality body is being, intimacy, consent, talking about expression of self, all of those things. The longer they will actually wait, and the more likely they're going to be to use protection when they decide to engage in some type of intercourse or outer course, all that to be said. Growing up, I got to attend hen parties with my mom and my aunties who are really my neighbors, but y'all know how that goes, right, So and their kids are my cousins and or my nieces and nephews, depending on our age. And I got to go to hen parties where they would talk about, you know, being with these guys when I was a teenager and ex boyfriends and how some things did work and how somethings didn't. And I'm like, Wow, there's a whole world in this. There's a whole world in like this power of feminine attitude and ownership that a lot of us don't get to know about a lot of us is saying, oh, you'll find that out when you're supposed to find that out. But our mentors not aren't necessarily comfortable guiding us, and so we have to learn through pain instead of learning through wisdom. And I'd rather folks learn through wisdom to learn cooking.
So I wonder if you can offer some strategies to people about how that can happen, right, because I think the messaging that young women often get is just keep your legs closed, right, Like people will figure that out, like you said, when you're older. But who am I going to figure it out from if like nobody's talking to me about it? So what kinds of things do you think people can do to impart this wisdom?
Right? So I can give an example for my own life. So I have trolling kids. I call them hayton A babies. Those are my habs. And my oldest hab is a volva owner and said it's okay that I call her by she or he pronounced not say. And one day was sitting on my lap and tends to be news because she's three and that's what life is right now. So sit on my lot and started like touching her volva and I was like, are you touching your volva? And she says, yeah, it's nice. I'm like, it is nice, and and we didn't talk about consent of you touching your volvo while you were on me. I'm a little bit uncomfortable, and I'd really like for you to do that in your own private space when you're by yourself, like your room, or if you want to go to the bathroom and do that, that's absolutely fine. And she was like, well, I kind of want to watch the Magic School Bus. I was like, okay, we can continue watching the Magic School Bus. And then she was like, well, let me go wash my hands again. And I was like, thank you for doing that, and went off and washed her hands again and came back and sat on my lap and didn't touch your vulva anymore. Right, all of that says, yes, it's nice to touch your vova. It is absolutely okay to touch your vova. It is not okay to touch your volva while you were on me. Right, this is not a private place to do. So please go do that in a private place, or you can stop and do it later. But we're not shaming, right, And some people are like, well, my kid's not three, my kid is sixteen and trying to be out here in these streets during COVID and et cetera, et cetera. It's time to talk to them. About one. If they're out in me s, if they are doing things that were they're sexually active, is it pleasurable for them? Have you taught your child how to advocate for their own pleasure and what that looks like. I've never met a parent yet who says I want my kids to have a crappy sex life. I've not yet met that parent. Right.
Most parents are just like, I don't want them to have a sex life period.
Right, And that's absolutely okay and absolutely unrealistic. Right.
If they choose that, then fine, but not just because you.
Want it exactly exactly right. And even folks who identify as asexual might have some type of romantic or physically pleasurable intercourse or sexual play. So it's saying, hey, have you checked in with your body and to see what feels nice? Right? How do you tell somebody no, you don't want to do something, or yes, you do want to do something. We do leave that part out. We teach people how to say no all the time, we don't really teach them how to say yes around their physical empowerment and enjoyment, especially when they're adolescents.
I think this goes back to your earlier statement. Though, and even our first conversation with you here on the podcast about sexual shame, right, because I don't know that as a parent you can have that conversation with your kids if you have not done some of the work of like releasing your own sexual shame.
Agreed. Agreed, well, and I will contend that some parents that I've seen say, I just don't want to do what my parents did to me. Right. Yeah, so you woke up and you just found a book on your bookshelf and it was like, okay, what is this about? Or they hated you a book was like come to me if you have any questions. You were like, I'm not coming to talk to you. This is strange because they were also really uncomfortable. So I've seen parents say like I want to do differently for my child and figuring out what that looks like. And that also might be saying we have an askeable adult, right, Like I'm a t t to my lying sister's kids, right. So those are my line nieces and my line nephews. And so I've had my nieces come to me and be like, Hey, this is what's going on. I need some help, t Lex. What do we do and I am, and I'm like, hey, your kid wants to have a conversation with me. Is this okay with you? So I check in with consent, not necessarily about the topic, but saying can I be that askable person and are you comfortable with that? And they're like yes, I'm okay. And I tell the same thing to the team, like, hey, I'm gonna talk to your mom to make sure it's okay you talk to me, and then we can put some boundaries around it.
I love the concept of an askable adult and matter as that we trust yeah, because it feels like okay, even if maybe I haven't done my own work to be comfortable with this conversation, if there is an auntie or somebody who they can have this conversation within, the conversation still happens exactly exactly. I've not yet met a parent that was like, if I feel safe with this adult to help me parents these kids, I'm be like nah, right. It's different if it's some random stranger that you don't know or who you're just getting to know. But if it's somebody you're super close and you trust their opinion and you all have like values and you're like, Okay, this person's knowledgeable about this.
I trust them. I want my kid to have help. I want my kid to have support. Then we're building those communities, and so making sure you have somebody who is sex positive in your community can be integral. So when these kids see why, because it's gonna happen, right and the internet is everywhere. Kids are way more savvy and deleting cookies nowadays than we were we were, and deleting browser history, and so they're gonna see it and they'll be like, I noticed you were interested in this, What were you interested in?
So making it a conversation as again opposed to shaming mm hmm, yeah right.
And say like, I'm not really comfortable with you consuming this type of adult content, so we can we talk about what was interesting and maybe find like the information you were looking for.
Yeah, And it also feels it also feels really interesting that people are reacting to this as if this is the first time we have seen women clean their sexuality in a music video or in lyrics, right, Like, this comes from a long history of other female rappers and women in music who have done similar kinds of things. So why do you think the reaction has been so strong.
Well so, I think this is the first time it's been so in your face. All right, I will tell you I got my life from that fountain.
In the entry of the video, the fountain was rather cool as a whole former breastfeeding mom like, exactly.
Thank you, doctor Joy. I told my other psychologist friends. We were fighting. Wait, we scrapping because I hadn't seen it, and they had started conversations, and you know, I have little ones. I don't always get a chance to look at things up to date. I was like, let me go look at this video. And I saw that fountain, and I was like, is that from their numbers? It is? And none of them saw the breastfeeding or the nursing chesticles that I saw. They were like, I saw the hair, and I saw the pose, and I thought about little Kim, and I was like, but you ain't see this nursing parent who oftentimes feels touched out or maybe even unwanted or uncertain about their bodies. And it's a celebration of yes, you can bust the wide open and still be a nurse and parent and take advantage of those full and gorged boobs while they're sitting up right and enjoy some of that sexual play too. So yes, thank you doctor Joy for confirming that for me. Like the Obi won, I was like, all right, yeah, I got yall, that's okay.
More from our conversation after the break.
Yeah, it definitely has felt like the backlash has felt different. And I'm trying to remember, like the last video we had that might have given us the same kind of reaction.
I don't was it well, I don't remember. I'm not the person for music an art. I remember Tweet, and I remember that I was not old enough to be singing about Tweet when my neck in my back was out. Yeah. But I'm just remembering, you know, growing up seeing Freaknick and hearing Trina and here in low Cam and Foxy Brown and seeing those things right, and seeing those same things and hearing the same terms, and people have sung about sex.
This is the beginning of time, right, Like our mothers and grandmothers, like they all had similar content in terms of lyric. Now, it may not have been as descriptive or like as pointed, but everybody has been singing about sex for a very long time, for.
A very long time, right, And that's the other part of that it is liberating to be like I can just say this out loud. And that's part of our sex therapy model. Right. The first step in our sex therapy model is permission giving. Right, it's saying I give you permission to talk about these things. I give you permission to say them out loud. I typically take that a step further and use it also for consent, like do you have me permission to talk about this with you, and ensuring that that conversation is safe for everybody in a room, and also giving people permission to pass, like if it's too uncomfortable, we don't have to talk about it. But we don't see black women rappers get held up in the same light when we see black mail rappers talking about the same thing. Right, Yeah, the black male rappers have talked about sex and how many people they want to run through, and how they like their sex, and how they want a sex kitten and a video fixing and how they hit it from behind, et cetera, et cetera, and don't get the same scrutiny. They don't get the same scrutiny. And yet when a woman talks about her own body part and how it functions, she's now all of a sudden, the hue and uncouth.
Right, the discrepancy feels very jarring to me. Right, Like when male rappers release these same kinds of songs, there is very little to know criticism of these kinds of things, but it feels like people really are reacting to the fact that these women have their agency to talk about what brings them pleasure in that it's okay for us to talk about these things as women because.
We don't hear about the black book, which is a male sexual stereotype for black men, right, that he always wants sex, that his appetite is insatiable, that he has a super large, superhuman penis and is able to just have as much sex as he wants for as long as he wants, right, and even saying those things out loud, quote unquote, They're not supposed to be horrible for men, right. Men are supposed to function like that. When we think about toxic masculinity, anything outside of that narrative is supposed to be non masculine. And it's that embracing of this hyper masculinity and this toxic masculinity that I also think reflects back on like wait, what you're trying to be in power sexually. Nah. Now I'm not cool with that because now it feels threatening. So it's I want a sex kitten, and I think I put this in a meme. I want a sex kitten. I want somebody who's going to do sex tricks. And women are like, wow, I'm putting on you. And then dudes are like, nah, not like that.
You will help.
House? Right?
How good? How does it come together? I do want to hear more about that than your thoughts about that, Like if people are just not recognizing how contradictory those messages are, right, like that, it's okay for you to do all these things if I say that you do them, or if I encourage you to do them, but if you initiate it, then it's a problem.
And I think that comes from that power piece, right, it's I have power over you, or I have influence over you. I can own part of this narrative. Well, I'm the one who made her that way, right, t Pain says, Now she liked Pain right because he taught her how to do it. And so there's a powers there that adds to that ego. But it's not necessarily theirs to own. It's the own individual persons to own. And I think we get that in sexuality. In my own study, black women having sex, and this is about but most of the black women in that study believed that during sex there was a power exchange. There's an exchange of power during that intimacy. And this is that two hundred and fifty women just about. So there was an exchange of power that happened during this sexual exchange and intercourse. And they believe that. And so if they believe that, right, and they're with another person who believes that, then it's yeah, now I have some type of power. Now I'm part of your narrative. Now I'm part of your story and you are because of me.
So we know that when women become more liberated, that leads to liberation for everybody. So it does feel like people are working against their best interest in working against women being more sexually liberated. Yes, that sexual liberation of saying I'm owning my body, I'm owning my pleasure and I am wet for this, and you'd be like, nah, I don't want that. That may sounds so ridiculous, It sounds so ridiculous, But how do you think that then maybe does help men to even feel more comfortable with their own liberation.
I think it also gives remember that permission piece I was talking about. It gives them permission too to say I don't have the mind read do you like this? Do you like that? I'm gonna try this right, and it's taxing. And one thing, if you're a woman who was sleeping with men, the penis doesn't like pressure. It does not like pressure. It's something that just like it was really hard and stress really do affect penile performance. So tell me what you like, show me what you like, and puzzle typically begets arousal. So the sounds, a noise, the the what was the song? The macaroni and cheet sound right, Those things say I'm ready for you and want you can be such a turn on that it could be get more arousal and saying like, oh, I know exactly how to please this person. I know exactly what this vaginal canal wants. I know exactly what this cluitterist wants. I know exactly what whatever these nipples, these toes, this elbow, the back of the neck, whatever it is, I know what it wants. And that helps my own sexual self esteem, and so you can give that gift through your own self exploration to your lover. You can give that gift of enhancing their sexual self esteem because they listen to exactly what you needed, and we're able to help you facilitate pleasure.
So where do you think we can start to kind of break down on some of that doctor lex like how can we help people to kind of get out of that contradiction?
So I think one is starting with some of these conversations, right, So listening to this podcast, listening to sex poseive folks, hearing out all sorts of perspectives, right, because again we live in America, so most of our perspectives come from America. But looking outside of ourselves. I have a book called Like the African Reader about sexuality from various parts of Africa that helped me like, oh look, other people have sung and talked about hymen's and vagina's. Look at that and there's power in that. So starting to explore some of our understanding. The other one, Pleasure Activism is the great book. And then The Body Is Not an Apology is a great book. Yeah, because we do have to externalize, like hey, this is how you've been taught to see yourself. What do you actually believe about yourself and the skin that you're in and the body that you have that's outside of everybody else's opinions and constraints. Then you start to explore your pleasure. Do you actually like when your lover snacks your butt like that? Or is it fun for them? Do you want to be I don't know, choked, or do you want your toe sucked? Or do you want the back of your knee licked at the right place, I don't know, whatever it is, explore for yourself what really feels good for you, and then being able to voice some of that which has statistically been found better to happen. And I will say periment apostle and postman aposal women. So there's doctor joy, a level of cares that you no longer give. Right after a certain point, you're able to verbalize like I don't have confidence, I don't like that, do it this way. And there's some relief in also not being fearful of like getting pregnant things like that. But there is a level that comes with comfortability with your body at that point. For a lot of women identify folks before that, so before your mid to late forties. Folks, Babe, I really don't like that. Can we try it a different way? Or it really turns tends me on when I'm really into If please keep doing that, it feels so good, right, So, having some of that scripted language to encourage and also center your own pleasure during this time. It is not your lover's job to give you pleasure. It's your job to help your lover facilitate pleasure for yourself and vice versa.
More from our conversation after the break.
You know, doctor Lex, listening to you talk about that study that talks about like postmitalpausal, it feels like a part of what WAB does is give people language for like censoring their own pleasure that you can start asking for that even earlier in your life.
Please please ask for that even earlier in your life.
Yes, yes, yes.
It can be celebratory too, right right, not something that's just so hidden in so away. And when we're talking about wo, I also want to just plug that it doesn't matter how you get a walk, right, So, if it is a natural occurring lubrication, if it is an added lubrication that is water based or silicon based, you do not use silicon based if you were going to use a silicon toy, right, enjoy that. People who are nursing, you need to automatically add a lubricant. It does not make you any less than if you're using a lubricant. It just makes everything feel better. And I can say I had a ooh over a seventy five year old client who said that they had great lubrication and yet they still had some burning when there was some digital penetration. And I was like, that means there's not a lot of lubrication. You need more about that, and she was like oh. And so I sent them some lubricant samples and I got a call back from the partner and from the client and they were like, hey, can we buy more of this where it from? And I was like, I'm happy to to this website to get more of it. Right. So it's that permission to start off younger and for my own kids. But both of my kids are Volva owners, and I want them to have pleasure with their bodies again learning through wisdom and not through pain. So I want to make sure like, hey, you know what, if it doesn't feel good, you say stop or I want you to be careful with your own body. So this is why you wash your hands before you touch your vovas and we don't stick to like random things in our volvas. Right, all of this type of stuff are important to talk about what feels good in our bodies, and this pleasure doesn't necessarily always have to be sexual either, as sexual Aswap is right, there's also pleasure from that empowerment. I can be on top and I can own this and say I'm gonna say my own name right because i own this, and I'm a spell it for you because I'm that good, and that can be empowering and uplifting as well.
Yeah, you know, the other thing that I think, you know it's important to think about in terms of this conversation, doctor Lex, is that it feels like like women feeling empowered about their sexuality doesn't really just stop like in the bedroom, because it feels like there is this part of like specifically with Meg, right. You know, we know that she was recently shot and there was of course again conversation about like how people were not taking it seriously and like all the jokes and memes about it, and it feels like a part of why it was not taken this seriously is because she is so sexy, right, so she is not seen as this like helpless woman, you know, that kind of thing, and so it feels like there is like a convulsion of those worlds and that her sexuality has also made her view people as somebody that it was okay to like joke about her being harmed.
Mm hmmm mm hmmm. So those are those respectability politics coming in again. Right, You're not worthy of decent human empathy from somebody harming you, right, So this was violent, yes, right, And she's lucky she survived because if it would have been anywhere else in her body, or if she would have been majorly injured, then everybody would be like, oh my gosh, rip right and playing albums and dedication songs. And we have to realize that happens to real folks in everyday life all the time, all the time. And the specifically I'll definitely say specifically for black trans women too. They are killed for existing because it challenges this power dynamic that men find it threatening. So men find their attraction threatening. And it's similar here saying that oh, you're too sexy or you're too much and that threatens this idea of my masculinity because now I'm not the sexually dominant one. That's really problematic and really scary that people would be like, oh, this is so funny. And I saw something about that, like then I read about it the meme from Boys in the Hood or Beyonce I got bit in the face by another woman and everybody want to be an oppera mm hmm, And I was like, there is no difference, Like a human is a human, right, and she still still deserves the same respect whether she's busting it open or not. You know.
The other thing that I thought was really cool about the video was that they brought other women in, right, So it also felt like this like celebration, like this sisterhood of sexuality, right, like that we are not only going to talk about our own, but we're gonna also invite other people to talk about theirs or at least share a piece of theirs.
Again, and there's no shame in our game. And we're not the only ones. Look at all of us. All of us have some form of sexiness that's our own that we can all own. And I think that was so empowering. It reminded me of what was that song, Ladies Night.
Ladies Night, Yah, the cameos.
For the mansion. Now, I have no idea what my roomor looked like, but it can't be that cheetah room.
But it's funny that one, right, And so I was like, this is so cool.
Every had their own space, and I think that was metaphor you all have your own space be create exactly who you want to be sexual mm hmm.
And then one person's sexuality doesn't have to like compromise or be in competition with.
Yours exactly because it's abundance. Yeah, we're coming from a Her level of sexy doesn't take away from your level of sexy, right right, right? What she does? And I think we've been taught that, right. What's that saying? Anything you won't do another woman will yes to hang on to some trifling person? Just why why do you want him if he wants her sex? Right, or maybe I'm open to it, and like he can have her sex and he can have my sex, or she can go have his sex. Like whatever, we're not from we're not from scarcity, We're from abundance. This person isn't a threat to you. And if you all decide like these are your boundaries that you're not with other people, maybe you can learn something new that you might enjoy, or you all can figure that out together. But whatever one person does doesn't take away from your own because everybody has their own lane.
Yeah, So, doctor Alex, I knew that you were going to be up on this video because this is kind of in line with you know, what you do and how you work with clients, right, And I think that that's an important part of the conversation too. It's just as therapist, how like this kind of information can be helpful with our clients. So I know you have already started using this in your clinical work, right I have.
I have. I have a client who is just so empowered and who like, listen to Foxy Brown and look Cam and loved it and then had never seen the video brings back nostyle that with Holly Berry and the fact that apps where we're not necessarily about these respectability politics and adopting all of them. It was We're going to be who we are and that's good enough for whatever socioeconomic class we're in and whatever world we're in. And I was like, you gotta go watch Baps talking about some self acceptance and that was her homework. I was like, go watch Baps. You love this video. I need you to have some context. Go watch bas and Baps is about these two black chicks from the hood. All they wanted to do was like one wanted to be a dancer and a heavy d video and that was her life goal. And they left the men that they were with for not feeling accepted and encouraged and a whole bunch of other stuff. If you haven't gotten to see Bats, go watch Baps, y'all right for this week.
I don't know, it's probably on like a hood or Netflix something.
I would wow, it's probably on YouTube at the page and it's probably at this point. But yeah, so just learning more and again it's all about that self acceptance. I think that really is key of giving yourself permission to exist, to breathe without the sphere of this biblical Jezebel, without this fear of being rejected based on your sexuality. Because if a person rejects you, then that's not the person for you. It's not the person you're meant to be with. You know.
Something else that has really heartened me just kind of following like the Twitter threads is that it feels like so both Halle Berry and Viola Davis were like photo shopped into different parts of the video, and they both have like retweeted.
They're like photo shops stop it. I love it, which feels really empowering to me. I think in that it is you know, like this older generation of women kind of like saying like, yes, we.
Like co sign right, so we are also rejecting these respectability politics that you know, like we can't also be sexy.
Yes, exactly, and especially for Viola Davis right, yes, being a darker skinned and with kinky hair, and like Viola Davis's arms are amazing and a muscular build, right, yes, yes, Sam yup, I could definitely be in this video and owning not I appreciate that.
Yes, it was very very I really appreciated her sharing her you know, like nonverbal co signing so to speak with the video. Yeah, so, doctor Lex, tell people where they can find you. I know you were recently here, but maybe people miss your last episode. We will of course include both of your previous appearances in the show notes, but tell people where they can find you.
You can find me at Lex. That's Ledublex sex sex dotdoc dot com and you can subscribe to my website for all of the following updates. You can check out the new upcoming Conflict Resolution Couples course I have for the spark a virtual brunch and you'll get some one on one time with me about ninety minutes wor to talk about resolving conflict, showing up how you really are. I know we're all trying to be together as much as we can in the most positive ways right now, and that's what that course really does. And then I'm lexex doc across all social media platforms, so that's Facebook, Instagram.
And Twitter perfect and we'll add that to the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Lex.
Thank you.
A huge thank you to doctor Lex Brown James for joining us again for this episode, so learn more about her and her work. Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three twenty five, and don't forget to visit Sexpositive September dot com for all of the other incredible conversations we're having this month. If you're looking for a therapists in your area, check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory and if you want to continue digging into this topic or just be in community with other sisters, come on over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Alise Ellis, and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. What's The reviews for Sisterhood Heels are rolling in and I simply cannot stop smiling at the hot girl books on Instagram shared finish reading this warm hug of a book last night and while it made me once a hug my sister friend so bad, Sisterhood Heels is a beautiful guide on how we as black women can use our community and friends to aid in our healing process. Thank you so much for the beautiful review. Have you grabbed your copy yet? Get one for yourself and a friend at Sisterhoodheels dot com.