This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel people of the Uran Nation. Hello and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildeound an absolute pleasure to have your company. Another huge week. We're going to get the real story behind this caravan of terror, the caravan packed with explosives that appeared to be set for a terror attack against the Jewish community. Plus what is the go with all these reviews into trans kids and puberty blockers. Well, We've solved the Middle East peace crisis, so I'm going to get it on a less controversial subject, trans riots. And we are going to find out what is going on with the Donald Has he just created peace in the Middle East and ended a trade war with Canada all in the one week. All that, much much more coming up first up, It's been another huge week in Australian politics. Anthony Alberanezi has not called an election yet, which means that he had to go back to Parliament this week, and they have decided on a couple of things. One is a national review into care for trans kids and into the use of puberty blockers in kids who are under the age of sixteen, which is when you go through puberty. So if you're going to block it, you want to get it in early. And also they put in a whole bunch of stuff to combat hate speech, and a lot of people are saying, well, hang on a minute, what are you actually trying to do. Are you infringing on free speech? You're stopping people from speaking their mind, And of course other people are saying, well hang on, this doesn't go far enough. So let's just unpack both of those things. And both of them have a lot to do with my wife. My wife is the communications director for Equality Australia, which is the LGBTQI plus group that tries to do all these legal reforms to make sure that anyone in that group is not discriminated against. So you know, I have this in the background at my house all the time, and that's my little conflict of interests. So that's all out there on the table. So this came about because in Cans, Queensland, a hospital there, a clinic catachtual hospital there gave puberty blockers, it seems to a twelve year old without parental consent. And this has obviously alarmed a lot of people, and rightly so, because that's not supposed to happen. You are not meant to be able to give puberty blockers to anybody unless you have their parent or guardian's consent, and so it would appear that this clinical hospital has done the wrong thing and there's going to be a full blown investigation into what went on there and how that was able to happen. The response by the Queensland State government was to order a review into the whole lot, in a review into the treatments that are being doled out across the state, and to block the use of puberty blockers. So we're blocking the blockers at this stage until that review has handed down its findings. And this is because there was a similar review in the UK called the Cast Review, which had some very critical opinions about the treatments that were being meted out over there. The difference, of course, is that in the UK and in Australia the treatments are very different and there is no one who is meant to be getting puberty blockers without their parents consent. And you can't have any surgery at all if you are under the age of sixteen, so you can only have interventions if you like that delay puberty until you're an adult and then you can make a decision about surgery after that. Now, I think there was maybe one court case where that was able to give puberty blockers to someone and overruled the products. But by like it just simply doesn't happen. Large everything that is blocked or delayed by puberty blockers can be undone, so you get pretty much everything back mostly. I think it's what my wife always says, mostly, Oh what doesn't come back, she goes, or maybe that maybe the voice, but anyway, so it's a pretty safe, kind of small c conservative option for someone who thinks they're born in the wrong body. I want to change gender from male to female or female to male, but I'm still a kid. So what this does is just say, all right, let's just hit pause on that, wait till you've grown up, wait till you're an adult, and then if you still want to proceed, then you can as an informed adult, and that transition will actually be easier because you haven't traveled down the other route, if you like. So the Queensland State government says, right, we're going to have a review into all this and we're going to stop that in the meantime, and that has meant that transfer will go hand. We'll hang on a minute. So you're saying I'm going to have to go through through puberty as the wrong gender, as a sex that I don't feel like I belong to while your review takes place, and god knows how long that's going to take, and then if it comes back and says, I know, this is all actually perfectly fine in world's best practice, there's a lot of experts say, oh, sorry, too late. I'm already halfway to being a bloke, even though I feel like I'm a female. So I don't know. That doesn't seem that doesn't seem that fair to me. It doesn't seem that sensible to me. The actual least intervention, if you like, would be just to say, okay, can continue the puberty blockers and just delay that decision until you're an adult. And that would also, I think be the position of the federal government, because the federal government then steps in and says, right, we're going to have our own review for the whole country. So we're going to do a review into all these treatments, but we're not going to block the blockers. In the meantime, we're not going to ban anything in the meantime, we're just going to have a review. And of course most people are thinking, well, you know what, much rather have the federal government under Albow doing a review into this sort of stuff than having the next coalition government under Peter Dutton having a review this sort of stuff because they probably appoint slightly different people to lead it, maybe come back with slightly different conclusions. I don't know. I'm sure it will be completely independent and even handed and fair and balanced, just like me. But point being, the federal governments basically said, look, why don't we do it for everybody, and why don't we just chill out on the banning the puberty blockers in the meantime, and Queen's are going and says, if you know what, if you want to pay for your review, fine, yeah you can just do that. We'll just go after the people at Cann's Hospital. So it's a nice little political solution that has what is probably going to be is slightly more benign, open minded, even handed approach rather than the review into these practices. Because of this terrible thing that occurred, we have to fix and make sure it never happens again. And it also takes the issue off the agenda before the election because the federal government review I don't think is going to begin until one hundred days from now, one hundred days after its announced, and that means that they can just refer all questions about this to the review throughout the election campaign. So well done, Elbow, well played. Just killed off a beautiful little culture war time bomb that was just ticking there in the meantime. Another culture war time bomb, of course, is hate speech, which is often what the censorious left call anything they disagree with. It's like, oh, no, we support freedom of speech, but you can't say this because that's hate speech. You can't say that. And again we saw during the Voice debate people saying, oh, you can't say that, that's misinformation just because you disagree with the Voice. Department had people saying if you didn't support it, you had to be racist, or that anyone campaigned against it was basically racist, which is of course news to the two most prominent campaigners against it, who were both Indigenous, and I was supporting the Voice. I did support it, and at the same time, looking at these claims by my side of the campaign, thinking oh my god, this is just absolutely disastrous. And so when the federal government tried to legislate against misinformation on the internet, I thought that's probably going to go the same way, and sure enough it did, and they just let that one die on a branch and that was never spoken of again. In fact, you've probably forgotten the Misinformation Bill ever existed, because that is exactly what the government wants you to do. Just never happened. It never happened. In fact, if you even think that you remember the misinformation Bill, that's just misinformation. However, this new hate speech stuff is different. There's lobby groups for people in my wife works for one of them, who actually think that it doesn't go far enough, because a great deal of fanfare was made about how this would be. It would be an offense to incite violence, which I support one hundred percent, because, of course, the limit to free speech is not being able to yell fire in a crowded theater. So that's one of the benchmarks. Everyone talks about. Freedom of speech. Doesn't mean to say, hey, bash that guy on the street just there. That's not free speech. That is excitement to violence. And of course saying anything reckless like yelling fire in a theater where people could get hurt when there's not actually a fire. That's not freedom of speech, that's just being a knob end. So there is that no incitement to violence. That's all very well and good, But there are people who say, well, hang on a minute, we have to have anti vilification laws as well, so you can't vilify someone. It's not just enough to say, you know, you can't encourage someone to be hurt, to vilify someone, to expose them to contempt or ridicule, that should also be included. And the example that was put to me is if you were saying, in the context of the trans debate, you know, trans peoples are sickos who must die, that's obviously an incitement to violence. But if you just say trans people are sickos, then that doesn't get captured because you weren't actually inciting violence against them. And that is what some of the language around this issue has come down to at times, as the Internet is a very dark and frightening place except for my Instagram page anyway. So that is the debate that is going on in Parliament at the moment. The big difference here though, as opposed to previous attempts to censor free speech. Is this time it's been driven by the outbreak of anti semitism, and this time it has been driven by pressure on the government to do more to stop the violence and the hatred that is being directed towards Jewish Australians, and it is just out of control. We are talking, you know, people and will be talking more about the latest terror threat, but even leaving that aside, you know, synagogue being fire bombed, homes being targeted, specific people's homes being targeted, not just with graffiti and cars being fire bombed out the front of houses. This is really really serious stuff. And because it's often the conservative side of politics that is more sympathetic to these concerns, and it's the conservative side of politics that has been telling the government it hasn't been doing enough to protect the Jewish community, it needs to crack down on anti semitism. And because it's the conservative side of politics that is usually most concerned about any infringement on freedom of speech, suddenly these these laws don't look so bad anymore. Suddenly the sort of people who would normally be jumping up and down and saying no, no, no, that's an infringement on free speech. You can't just tell people not to say something because it might just upset or offend or humiliate someone. Suddenly they're going, oh, oh, that's actually what we called for. Oh okay, no worries. And again the government, I think knows this and realizes that this is the time to thread the needle and actually have people on the right side of politics, either by accident or design, suddenly feeling like they have to support restrictions on what people can and can't say. And again, I fully support that when it comes to incitement to violence. Not quite sure if I support it in all other areas, even including vilification or humiliation or contempt, because of course, some people's definition of humiliation is very different to other people's definition of humiliation. Some people just can't take a joke. Although my wife is not one of them, so if she is listening to this, I'm with you all the way, honey. And now let's go to what I've decided should be a new regular segment on the podcast called What the Donald Is Doing, and that Donald has just scored a couple of big wins this week. It is just surreal the way he does this. I've spoken before about how He is a master of madman diplomacy. This guy is so crazy that his enemies, his allies, the people he's negotiating with, don't know what he's going to do next, and they don't know if he's actually going to follow through with all the crazy stuff that he says he's going to do. And so as a result, we saw Donald say if all the hostages aren't returned by the time I'm sworn in as president, then there will be hell to pay. And I'm just going to just basically nuke the joint. I'm just going to rebelize the whole lot, and was like, is he serious? What is his man? Is he going to do this either way? Wouldn't you know it? Just before he gets sworn in, humas returns all the hostages's a deal too, And he's done it again with his tariff plannet. Donald Trump is the only person I know who can make tariff's fun. But he's announced that there's going to be a twenty five percent tariff on goods from Canada and in twenty five percent tariff on goods from Mexico. And this is because they're apparently not doing enough to address the fentanyl crisis, the drug that keeps pouring over the borders from all those bad countries to beautiful, pure America in the eyes of the Donald, and of course the people smuggling and the rest of it. So Donald Trump isn't actually imposing these tariffs for any real economic reasons. He's not even really pretending to. He's just using it as a bargaining chip to say, you better do what I want. Just like with the with the mass you know, he probably would have imposed a tariff on them, he had the choice and said, do what I tell you. I'm going to impose these taffs. And of course all parties, you know, all the serious people, even erstwhile Trump supports that this is terrible, this is awful. This will destroy the US and Canadian economies, and it's just going to be durable for everybody. And Justin Trudeau, the outgoing Prime Minister of Canada, he was high and mighty, hand on heart, saying this is insane, this is crazy, This will hurt people, this will hurt everybody. Americans have to rise up and tell Donald Trump he's got a back down. And then he comes out and says, all right, well, we're gonna put twenty five percent tariffs on you too? How do you like them apples? It's all more. Donald Trump's terrible, He's reckless. You know, this is not the way to go. We shouldn't be doing this. This is nuts. Fast forward to this week and suddenly Justin Trudeau's tone has kind of changed a little bit. This is the tweet that he put out just a day or two ago. So I just had a good call with President Trump. Canada is implementing our one point three billion dollar border plan, reinforcing the border with new choppers, technology and personnel, enhanced coordination with our American partners, and increased resources to stop the flow of fentanel. Nearly ten thousand frontline personnel are and will be working on protecting the border. In addition, Canada is making new commitments to a point of fentanyl za don't we love a czar? I love Azar. We will list cartels as terrorists in shore twenty four seven Eyes on the Border launch a Canada US joint strike force to combat organized crime, fentanyl and money laundering. I've also signed a new intelligence directive on organized crime and fentanyl and we will be backing it with two hundred million dollars. In other words, absolutely everything Donald Trump wanted. In fact, I think he was just throwing some extra stuff on the list just for fun. So again, Madman diplomacy, that's how it works, people, And Trump is doing it in Israel too. If it works on Canada, well it's got to work on the Middle East. So Trump has just come out and said that basically, the US is going to take over Gaza. It's just going to take over Gaza, and it's going to fix everything. But this is the thing. It's not going to fix everything as a political problem or even a military problem, or even the humanitarian problem. It's going to fix everything by rebuilding. It's going to redevelop Gaza. He's going to create it as this beautiful riviera, that's what he says. It's going to make it the riviera of the Middle East. And Gaza has some pretty nice beaches, it's got some sweat, like Gaza should be prime real estate. And that is the one thing that Donald Trump really respects. The one thing he appreciates is real estate. And so while everybody for the last half a century or more has been seeing this through the eyes of a politician or a freedom fighter or a terrorist or a nation state that fears for its own existence. Donald Trump has looked at the problem like a property developer, and you know what, I don't know if it's going to work, but nothing else has, so let's give it a shot. Now. One of the biggest stories that has exploded over the past week, although thankfully not literally, has been the shock discovery of this caravan packed with explosive that seemed to be intended for a terror attack at a Jewish site. Now, not only is that big enough news on its own and extremely disturbing enough on its own, but there are now questions as to whether the Prime Minister even knew that this threat had been uncovered until it was revealed by the Daily Telegraph. Well, joining me now is part of the team at the Telegraph that actually broke this story days after this caravan was discovered, and he joins me on the real story right now. Josh Hanrahan, how are you welcome to the show? Joe.

This podcast was recorded on the land of the Gatigel people of the Uran Nation. Hello and welcome to the Real Story with Joe Hildeound an absolute pleasure to have your company. Another huge week. We're going to get the real story behind this caravan of terror, the caravan packed with explosives that appeared to be set for a terror attack against the Jewish community. Plus what is the go with all these reviews into trans kids and puberty blockers. Well, We've solved the Middle East peace crisis, so I'm going to get it on a less controversial subject, trans riots. And we are going to find out what is going on with the Donald Has he just created peace in the Middle East and ended a trade war with Canada all in the one week. All that, much much more coming up first up, It's been another huge week in Australian politics. Anthony Alberanezi has not called an election yet, which means that he had to go back to Parliament this week, and they have decided on a couple of things. One is a national review into care for trans kids and into the use of puberty blockers in kids who are under the age of sixteen, which is when you go through puberty. So if you're going to block it, you want to get it in early. And also they put in a whole bunch of stuff to combat hate speech, and a lot of people are saying, well, hang on a minute, what are you actually trying to do. Are you infringing on free speech? You're stopping people from speaking their mind, And of course other people are saying, well hang on, this doesn't go far enough. So let's just unpack both of those things. And both of them have a lot to do with my wife. My wife is the communications director for Equality Australia, which is the LGBTQI plus group that tries to do all these legal reforms to make sure that anyone in that group is not discriminated against. So you know, I have this in the background at my house all the time, and that's my little conflict of interests. So that's all out there on the table. So this came about because in Cans, Queensland, a hospital there, a clinic catachtual hospital there gave puberty blockers, it seems to a twelve year old without parental consent. And this has obviously alarmed a lot of people, and rightly so, because that's not supposed to happen. You are not meant to be able to give puberty blockers to anybody unless you have their parent or guardian's consent, and so it would appear that this clinical hospital has done the wrong thing and there's going to be a full blown investigation into what went on there and how that was able to happen. The response by the Queensland State government was to order a review into the whole lot, in a review into the treatments that are being doled out across the state, and to block the use of puberty blockers. So we're blocking the blockers at this stage until that review has handed down its findings. And this is because there was a similar review in the UK called the Cast Review, which had some very critical opinions about the treatments that were being meted out over there. The difference, of course, is that in the UK and in Australia the treatments are very different and there is no one who is meant to be getting puberty blockers without their parents consent. And you can't have any surgery at all if you are under the age of sixteen, so you can only have interventions if you like that delay puberty until you're an adult and then you can make a decision about surgery after that. Now, I think there was maybe one court case where that was able to give puberty blockers to someone and overruled the products. But by like it just simply doesn't happen. Large everything that is blocked or delayed by puberty blockers can be undone, so you get pretty much everything back mostly. I think it's what my wife always says, mostly, Oh what doesn't come back, she goes, or maybe that maybe the voice, but anyway, so it's a pretty safe, kind of small c conservative option for someone who thinks they're born in the wrong body. I want to change gender from male to female or female to male, but I'm still a kid. So what this does is just say, all right, let's just hit pause on that, wait till you've grown up, wait till you're an adult, and then if you still want to proceed, then you can as an informed adult, and that transition will actually be easier because you haven't traveled down the other route, if you like. So the Queensland State government says, right, we're going to have a review into all this and we're going to stop that in the meantime, and that has meant that transfer will go hand. We'll hang on a minute. So you're saying I'm going to have to go through through puberty as the wrong gender, as a sex that I don't feel like I belong to while your review takes place, and god knows how long that's going to take, and then if it comes back and says, I know, this is all actually perfectly fine in world's best practice, there's a lot of experts say, oh, sorry, too late. I'm already halfway to being a bloke, even though I feel like I'm a female. So I don't know. That doesn't seem that doesn't seem that fair to me. It doesn't seem that sensible to me. The actual least intervention, if you like, would be just to say, okay, can continue the puberty blockers and just delay that decision until you're an adult. And that would also, I think be the position of the federal government, because the federal government then steps in and says, right, we're going to have our own review for the whole country. So we're going to do a review into all these treatments, but we're not going to block the blockers. In the meantime, we're not going to ban anything in the meantime, we're just going to have a review. And of course most people are thinking, well, you know what, much rather have the federal government under Albow doing a review into this sort of stuff than having the next coalition government under Peter Dutton having a review this sort of stuff because they probably appoint slightly different people to lead it, maybe come back with slightly different conclusions. I don't know. I'm sure it will be completely independent and even handed and fair and balanced, just like me. But point being, the federal governments basically said, look, why don't we do it for everybody, and why don't we just chill out on the banning the puberty blockers in the meantime, and Queen's are going and says, if you know what, if you want to pay for your review, fine, yeah you can just do that. We'll just go after the people at Cann's Hospital. So it's a nice little political solution that has what is probably going to be is slightly more benign, open minded, even handed approach rather than the review into these practices. Because of this terrible thing that occurred, we have to fix and make sure it never happens again. And it also takes the issue off the agenda before the election because the federal government review I don't think is going to begin until one hundred days from now, one hundred days after its announced, and that means that they can just refer all questions about this to the review throughout the election campaign. So well done, Elbow, well played. Just killed off a beautiful little culture war time bomb that was just ticking there in the meantime. Another culture war time bomb, of course, is hate speech, which is often what the censorious left call anything they disagree with. It's like, oh, no, we support freedom of speech, but you can't say this because that's hate speech. You can't say that. And again we saw during the Voice debate people saying, oh, you can't say that, that's misinformation just because you disagree with the Voice. Department had people saying if you didn't support it, you had to be racist, or that anyone campaigned against it was basically racist, which is of course news to the two most prominent campaigners against it, who were both Indigenous, and I was supporting the Voice. I did support it, and at the same time, looking at these claims by my side of the campaign, thinking oh my god, this is just absolutely disastrous. And so when the federal government tried to legislate against misinformation on the internet, I thought that's probably going to go the same way, and sure enough it did, and they just let that one die on a branch and that was never spoken of again. In fact, you've probably forgotten the Misinformation Bill ever existed, because that is exactly what the government wants you to do. Just never happened. It never happened. In fact, if you even think that you remember the misinformation Bill, that's just misinformation. However, this new hate speech stuff is different. There's lobby groups for people in my wife works for one of them, who actually think that it doesn't go far enough, because a great deal of fanfare was made about how this would be. It would be an offense to incite violence, which I support one hundred percent, because, of course, the limit to free speech is not being able to yell fire in a crowded theater. So that's one of the benchmarks. Everyone talks about. Freedom of speech. Doesn't mean to say, hey, bash that guy on the street just there. That's not free speech. That is excitement to violence. And of course saying anything reckless like yelling fire in a theater where people could get hurt when there's not actually a fire. That's not freedom of speech, that's just being a knob end. So there is that no incitement to violence. That's all very well and good, But there are people who say, well, hang on a minute, we have to have anti vilification laws as well, so you can't vilify someone. It's not just enough to say, you know, you can't encourage someone to be hurt, to vilify someone, to expose them to contempt or ridicule, that should also be included. And the example that was put to me is if you were saying, in the context of the trans debate, you know, trans peoples are sickos who must die, that's obviously an incitement to violence. But if you just say trans people are sickos, then that doesn't get captured because you weren't actually inciting violence against them. And that is what some of the language around this issue has come down to at times, as the Internet is a very dark and frightening place except for my Instagram page anyway. So that is the debate that is going on in Parliament at the moment. The big difference here though, as opposed to previous attempts to censor free speech. Is this time it's been driven by the outbreak of anti semitism, and this time it has been driven by pressure on the government to do more to stop the violence and the hatred that is being directed towards Jewish Australians, and it is just out of control. We are talking, you know, people and will be talking more about the latest terror threat, but even leaving that aside, you know, synagogue being fire bombed, homes being targeted, specific people's homes being targeted, not just with graffiti and cars being fire bombed out the front of houses. This is really really serious stuff. And because it's often the conservative side of politics that is more sympathetic to these concerns, and it's the conservative side of politics that has been telling the government it hasn't been doing enough to protect the Jewish community, it needs to crack down on anti semitism. And because it's the conservative side of politics that is usually most concerned about any infringement on freedom of speech, suddenly these these laws don't look so bad anymore. Suddenly the sort of people who would normally be jumping up and down and saying no, no, no, that's an infringement on free speech. You can't just tell people not to say something because it might just upset or offend or humiliate someone. Suddenly they're going, oh, oh, that's actually what we called for. Oh okay, no worries. And again the government, I think knows this and realizes that this is the time to thread the needle and actually have people on the right side of politics, either by accident or design, suddenly feeling like they have to support restrictions on what people can and can't say. And again, I fully support that when it comes to incitement to violence. Not quite sure if I support it in all other areas, even including vilification or humiliation or contempt, because of course, some people's definition of humiliation is very different to other people's definition of humiliation. Some people just can't take a joke. Although my wife is not one of them, so if she is listening to this, I'm with you all the way, honey. And now let's go to what I've decided should be a new regular segment on the podcast called What the Donald Is Doing, and that Donald has just scored a couple of big wins this week. It is just surreal the way he does this. I've spoken before about how He is a master of madman diplomacy. This guy is so crazy that his enemies, his allies, the people he's negotiating with, don't know what he's going to do next, and they don't know if he's actually going to follow through with all the crazy stuff that he says he's going to do. And so as a result, we saw Donald say if all the hostages aren't returned by the time I'm sworn in as president, then there will be hell to pay. And I'm just going to just basically nuke the joint. I'm just going to rebelize the whole lot, and was like, is he serious? What is his man? Is he going to do this either way? Wouldn't you know it? Just before he gets sworn in, humas returns all the hostages's a deal too, And he's done it again with his tariff plannet. Donald Trump is the only person I know who can make tariff's fun. But he's announced that there's going to be a twenty five percent tariff on goods from Canada and in twenty five percent tariff on goods from Mexico. And this is because they're apparently not doing enough to address the fentanyl crisis, the drug that keeps pouring over the borders from all those bad countries to beautiful, pure America in the eyes of the Donald, and of course the people smuggling and the rest of it. So Donald Trump isn't actually imposing these tariffs for any real economic reasons. He's not even really pretending to. He's just using it as a bargaining chip to say, you better do what I want. Just like with the with the mass you know, he probably would have imposed a tariff on them, he had the choice and said, do what I tell you. I'm going to impose these taffs. And of course all parties, you know, all the serious people, even erstwhile Trump supports that this is terrible, this is awful. This will destroy the US and Canadian economies, and it's just going to be durable for everybody. And Justin Trudeau, the outgoing Prime Minister of Canada, he was high and mighty, hand on heart, saying this is insane, this is crazy, This will hurt people, this will hurt everybody. Americans have to rise up and tell Donald Trump he's got a back down. And then he comes out and says, all right, well, we're gonna put twenty five percent tariffs on you too? How do you like them apples? It's all more. Donald Trump's terrible, He's reckless. You know, this is not the way to go. We shouldn't be doing this. This is nuts. Fast forward to this week and suddenly Justin Trudeau's tone has kind of changed a little bit. This is the tweet that he put out just a day or two ago. So I just had a good call with President Trump. Canada is implementing our one point three billion dollar border plan, reinforcing the border with new choppers, technology and personnel, enhanced coordination with our American partners, and increased resources to stop the flow of fentanel. Nearly ten thousand frontline personnel are and will be working on protecting the border. In addition, Canada is making new commitments to a point of fentanyl za don't we love a czar? I love Azar. We will list cartels as terrorists in shore twenty four seven Eyes on the Border launch a Canada US joint strike force to combat organized crime, fentanyl and money laundering. I've also signed a new intelligence directive on organized crime and fentanyl and we will be backing it with two hundred million dollars. In other words, absolutely everything Donald Trump wanted. In fact, I think he was just throwing some extra stuff on the list just for fun. So again, Madman diplomacy, that's how it works, people, And Trump is doing it in Israel too. If it works on Canada, well it's got to work on the Middle East. So Trump has just come out and said that basically, the US is going to take over Gaza. It's just going to take over Gaza, and it's going to fix everything. But this is the thing. It's not going to fix everything as a political problem or even a military problem, or even the humanitarian problem. It's going to fix everything by rebuilding. It's going to redevelop Gaza. He's going to create it as this beautiful riviera, that's what he says. It's going to make it the riviera of the Middle East. And Gaza has some pretty nice beaches, it's got some sweat, like Gaza should be prime real estate. And that is the one thing that Donald Trump really respects. The one thing he appreciates is real estate. And so while everybody for the last half a century or more has been seeing this through the eyes of a politician or a freedom fighter or a terrorist or a nation state that fears for its own existence. Donald Trump has looked at the problem like a property developer, and you know what, I don't know if it's going to work, but nothing else has, so let's give it a shot. Now. One of the biggest stories that has exploded over the past week, although thankfully not literally, has been the shock discovery of this caravan packed with explosive that seemed to be intended for a terror attack at a Jewish site. Now, not only is that big enough news on its own and extremely disturbing enough on its own, but there are now questions as to whether the Prime Minister even knew that this threat had been uncovered until it was revealed by the Daily Telegraph. Well, joining me now is part of the team at the Telegraph that actually broke this story days after this caravan was discovered, and he joins me on the real story right now. Josh Hanrahan, how are you welcome to the show? Joe.

I'm good.

I'm good.

Thank you for having me mate. It's an absolute pleasure, It absolute extraordinary yarn that you and myz Mark and the team at the Telly uncovered. Just talk us through the basics of it. How it came across your desk in so far as you can reveal that and what the sort of nuts and bolts of the yarn r.

Thank you for having me mate. It's an absolute pleasure, It absolute extraordinary yarn that you and myz Mark and the team at the Telly uncovered. Just talk us through the basics of it. How it came across your desk in so far as you can reveal that and what the sort of nuts and bolts of the yarn r.

Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about how it came across our desk. Ever since it progress, there's been a lot of talk about, you know, how was this leaked? Because for nine days after this caravan was first discovered it it was a tightly held secret within the New Soiel's Police Force, the Australian Federal Police Force, ASIO, the Spy Agency and a number of other policing agencies across the country until Moz and I there was a conversation that was had with somebody who happened to mention this discovery at Duruell. Now if you go back to I think it was about the twenty first of January, we got I got sent an email as many other people on the offs did, with what we call string of vision, which is vision. There's some video, some stills of raids, police raids out at Durall that are taken by these guys who literally just are listening to emergencies services scanners yep and go to wherever they think something might be happening and so they heard about something going on out Dural and they went there. We asked the police that day, hey what's this about?

Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about how it came across our desk. Ever since it progress, there's been a lot of talk about, you know, how was this leaked? Because for nine days after this caravan was first discovered it it was a tightly held secret within the New Soiel's Police Force, the Australian Federal Police Force, ASIO, the Spy Agency and a number of other policing agencies across the country until Moz and I there was a conversation that was had with somebody who happened to mention this discovery at Duruell. Now if you go back to I think it was about the twenty first of January, we got I got sent an email as many other people on the offs did, with what we call string of vision, which is vision. There's some video, some stills of raids, police raids out at Durall that are taken by these guys who literally just are listening to emergencies services scanners yep and go to wherever they think something might be happening and so they heard about something going on out Dural and they went there. We asked the police that day, hey what's this about?

And nothing.

And nothing.

Shut up shop. One person said to me, you might want to keep digging, but to be honest, I didn't even really give that a second thought until, as I said, nine days later and somebody said, essentially, there's been a caravan found out at Dural on Drywn Road, packed with explosives and a couple of notes inside with the addresses of the Great Synagogue in Sydney and the Holocaust Museum which is down there just you know, part of darling Hurst King across there, and also another note that said f the Jews. And so clearly, you know, in this heightened time of tension and anti Semitic attacks, this was off the scale. And so what we did was we kind of discussed among ourselves and then had a conversation with Ben English, our editor, and then we were at a point where we're going, okay, well this is clearly being kept secret, so so what should we do with it? And we have really good relationships with Niseel's police, the Federal police too, and many other agencies because this is what we do day in day out, we deal with these guys and what they're investigating. And my view, as always and Mos is the same, that you're going to get further by being friends with people then by burning people.

Shut up shop. One person said to me, you might want to keep digging, but to be honest, I didn't even really give that a second thought until, as I said, nine days later and somebody said, essentially, there's been a caravan found out at Dural on Drywn Road, packed with explosives and a couple of notes inside with the addresses of the Great Synagogue in Sydney and the Holocaust Museum which is down there just you know, part of darling Hurst King across there, and also another note that said f the Jews. And so clearly, you know, in this heightened time of tension and anti Semitic attacks, this was off the scale. And so what we did was we kind of discussed among ourselves and then had a conversation with Ben English, our editor, and then we were at a point where we're going, okay, well this is clearly being kept secret, so so what should we do with it? And we have really good relationships with Niseel's police, the Federal police too, and many other agencies because this is what we do day in day out, we deal with these guys and what they're investigating. And my view, as always and Mos is the same, that you're going to get further by being friends with people then by burning people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely, And so we kind of went to them and said, hey, this is what we've heard, what's going on? What do you want us to do with it? Clearly you've kept it secret, so is there a reason and if so, can you please explain what it is? And having had those relationships that have gone on for years, in MOS's case, decades before we were born, we trust the fact that they'll be pretty reasonable with us in ye.

Absolutely, And so we kind of went to them and said, hey, this is what we've heard, what's going on? What do you want us to do with it? Clearly you've kept it secret, so is there a reason and if so, can you please explain what it is? And having had those relationships that have gone on for years, in MOS's case, decades before we were born, we trust the fact that they'll be pretty reasonable with us in ye.

And so basically you go to them said, look, we've got all this stuff, and then you sit down and have a conversation about just how much you're going to public. I mean, the ball is in your court, isn't it. You've got the information, but you don't want to jeopardize an ongoing police investigation, presumably, And so you're sitting down with the cops having a conversation about what you can and can't publish. You're obviously pushing for as much as possible, they're obviously pushing for as little as possible. But at least you kind of know the cards that the other is holding, and then you get a result that doesn't actually harm the investigation. Is that a fair Yeah.

And so basically you go to them said, look, we've got all this stuff, and then you sit down and have a conversation about just how much you're going to public. I mean, the ball is in your court, isn't it. You've got the information, but you don't want to jeopardize an ongoing police investigation, presumably, And so you're sitting down with the cops having a conversation about what you can and can't publish. You're obviously pushing for as much as possible, they're obviously pushing for as little as possible. But at least you kind of know the cards that the other is holding, and then you get a result that doesn't actually harm the investigation. Is that a fair Yeah.

Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. I mean, to be honest, it was scary, you know when you hear when you first heard about it, because if you take it at its highest, there's potentially a terror attack planned in the middle of Sydney. And so I guess when you say, you know, we're pushing for as much as possible to a degree, I mean I think we will probably course courses. And so there was back and forth phone calls, and initially, you know, we said, if this is if you're trying to foil a terror attack, yeah, we're not going to get in your way. Our egos aren't that big that we're going to put people in this city at harm. And eventually a few hours later, maybe a bit more, they came back and said, okay, we'll look and publish.

Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. I mean, to be honest, it was scary, you know when you hear when you first heard about it, because if you take it at its highest, there's potentially a terror attack planned in the middle of Sydney. And so I guess when you say, you know, we're pushing for as much as possible to a degree, I mean I think we will probably course courses. And so there was back and forth phone calls, and initially, you know, we said, if this is if you're trying to foil a terror attack, yeah, we're not going to get in your way. Our egos aren't that big that we're going to put people in this city at harm. And eventually a few hours later, maybe a bit more, they came back and said, okay, we'll look and publish.

Yeah. So again, so the idea that in any way that this compromise or jeopardized investigation is obviously bollocks. The cops ended up green lighting it. Why was it secret then for so long? So the story that we seem to have is that the cops, the federal police, as you and also Chris Mins, the Premier of New South Wales, as you would expect because he's the head of the government that obviously runs the cops, and of course is where the vast majority of the danti Simic attacks have taken place and where this alleged terror attack or seeming terror attack was going to take place. And yet it never gets to the PM. Apparently we don't know. He's not answering co but presumably if he would have just said yes, I was told, this seems to me passing strange. Surely it should have been up to the AFP or AZO to give a security bred in to the PM and they listen, We've got a potentially live investigation into a potential terror attack that is the latest kind of escalation of this pattern of anti Semitic attacks. We're saying, why did that not happen? I can understand why. If Mins was told and said this is top secret, he says, right, I'm not going to go around blabbing to other politicians or telling the PERM It's not his role. Surely the federal security agencies should have told the Prime minister, shouldn't they or why wouldn't they?

Yeah. So again, so the idea that in any way that this compromise or jeopardized investigation is obviously bollocks. The cops ended up green lighting it. Why was it secret then for so long? So the story that we seem to have is that the cops, the federal police, as you and also Chris Mins, the Premier of New South Wales, as you would expect because he's the head of the government that obviously runs the cops, and of course is where the vast majority of the danti Simic attacks have taken place and where this alleged terror attack or seeming terror attack was going to take place. And yet it never gets to the PM. Apparently we don't know. He's not answering co but presumably if he would have just said yes, I was told, this seems to me passing strange. Surely it should have been up to the AFP or AZO to give a security bred in to the PM and they listen, We've got a potentially live investigation into a potential terror attack that is the latest kind of escalation of this pattern of anti Semitic attacks. We're saying, why did that not happen? I can understand why. If Mins was told and said this is top secret, he says, right, I'm not going to go around blabbing to other politicians or telling the PERM It's not his role. Surely the federal security agencies should have told the Prime minister, shouldn't they or why wouldn't they?

Yes, so the caravans found on the nineteenth of January, Chris Mins is told on the twentieth of January, and presumably, as you say before, because Anthony Albanezy want to answer the question, we assume he hasn't been told. I mean, that's what we've been told behind the scenes. But your question of why, no one can answer it. Police are confused as to white because as well as police did their job, yes, they told the premier and you saw I was. Police's obligation isn't to tell.

Yes, so the caravans found on the nineteenth of January, Chris Mins is told on the twentieth of January, and presumably, as you say before, because Anthony Albanezy want to answer the question, we assume he hasn't been told. I mean, that's what we've been told behind the scenes. But your question of why, no one can answer it. Police are confused as to white because as well as police did their job, yes, they told the premier and you saw I was. Police's obligation isn't to tell.

Right exactly and neither is the premiers.

Right exactly and neither is the premiers.

No, no, no, I agree, And I know there's been questions around. You know, there was a national Cabinet meeting where all the state premiers, territory leaders get together with the Prime Minister. And I know chrispins and said he didn't think that was the right perform and I think that's completely completely understandable. I don't know why the Federal Police didn't tell Anthony Albanezi.

No, no, no, I agree, And I know there's been questions around. You know, there was a national Cabinet meeting where all the state premiers, territory leaders get together with the Prime Minister. And I know chrispins and said he didn't think that was the right perform and I think that's completely completely understandable. I don't know why the Federal Police didn't tell Anthony Albanezi.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I honestly don't know, but I know it is confused. Every other agency work on this investigation as well. I think they were shocked when when they found out the primn't.

I honestly don't know, but I know it is confused. Every other agency work on this investigation as well. I think they were shocked when when they found out the primn't.

I dare say Albow might be a little bit disappointed if it wasn't, because it's it's dragged him needlessly through the ringer, hasn't it.

I dare say Albow might be a little bit disappointed if it wasn't, because it's it's dragged him needlessly through the ringer, hasn't it.

This has gone from a policing story to a political story largely, which is really interesting. So, you know, in the early stages it's it's us policing hacks, you know, using our sources to find out what we can find out. But very quickly it became a beautiful little It's.

This has gone from a policing story to a political story largely, which is really interesting. So, you know, in the early stages it's it's us policing hacks, you know, using our sources to find out what we can find out. But very quickly it became a beautiful little It's.

Incredible, that's right. Yeah, it's one of those firestorms that keeps gathering more fuel that makes it blow up, but makes it gather more fuel, and so it becomes sort of self perpetuated. I want to talk just the nature and again we don't know. There's obviously an investigation ongoing, but it is the weirdest looking terror plot I've ever seen in all my days, Like there is there is something very strange about So these are industrial explosives using the mining industry. I believe you can understand, I suppose that element of it. But to have a you know, notes left with the explosives themselves, with the intended locations, you know, with the notes, saying if the Jews, I'm certainly not downplaying the seriousness of the threat, and I've been very outspoken about just how dangerous and deadly anti Semitism can get very very quickly. But this seems to be you know, keep thinking to myself, if you're gonna plan a terrorist attack, just memorize the address, don't write it down and leave it with the explosives, you know. So this seems to be And again, a couple of the persons of interests, colorful local identities, I think you might call it. They seem to have their life doesn't seem to have gone the way they'd hoped. But this seems to be kind of pretty rough shot, pretty weird. What are your thoughts on who is orchestrating this and for what purpose?

Incredible, that's right. Yeah, it's one of those firestorms that keeps gathering more fuel that makes it blow up, but makes it gather more fuel, and so it becomes sort of self perpetuated. I want to talk just the nature and again we don't know. There's obviously an investigation ongoing, but it is the weirdest looking terror plot I've ever seen in all my days, Like there is there is something very strange about So these are industrial explosives using the mining industry. I believe you can understand, I suppose that element of it. But to have a you know, notes left with the explosives themselves, with the intended locations, you know, with the notes, saying if the Jews, I'm certainly not downplaying the seriousness of the threat, and I've been very outspoken about just how dangerous and deadly anti Semitism can get very very quickly. But this seems to be you know, keep thinking to myself, if you're gonna plan a terrorist attack, just memorize the address, don't write it down and leave it with the explosives, you know. So this seems to be And again, a couple of the persons of interests, colorful local identities, I think you might call it. They seem to have their life doesn't seem to have gone the way they'd hoped. But this seems to be kind of pretty rough shot, pretty weird. What are your thoughts on who is orchestrating this and for what purpose?

There's plenty of theories going around, as you said before, Joe the one of the A couple of hours after we broke the story, Chris Mins and Dave Hudson, the deputy Newsorl's police commissioner, stood up and held a big press conference, and Dave Hudson said that they had already made multiple arrests on the periphery of the investigation and so soon after that press conference, we broke to who those people were, and there's a woman called Tammy Ferusia yep, her boyfriend Scott Marshall, and a third man called Simon Nichols who's Scott Marshall's mate, And those three people are all already behind bars on remand for completely unrelated alleged crimes. Tammy is currently facing charges over another alleged Andy Semitic attack at Wulara last year, Scott Marshall's facing weapons and drugs charges, and Simon Nichols is facing essentially ca rebirthing challenges. So nothing related to a potential terror plot. But what police believes that those three people were involved in the purchase of that caravan.

There's plenty of theories going around, as you said before, Joe the one of the A couple of hours after we broke the story, Chris Mins and Dave Hudson, the deputy Newsorl's police commissioner, stood up and held a big press conference, and Dave Hudson said that they had already made multiple arrests on the periphery of the investigation and so soon after that press conference, we broke to who those people were, and there's a woman called Tammy Ferusia yep, her boyfriend Scott Marshall, and a third man called Simon Nichols who's Scott Marshall's mate, And those three people are all already behind bars on remand for completely unrelated alleged crimes. Tammy is currently facing charges over another alleged Andy Semitic attack at Wulara last year, Scott Marshall's facing weapons and drugs charges, and Simon Nichols is facing essentially ca rebirthing challenges. So nothing related to a potential terror plot. But what police believes that those three people were involved in the purchase of that caravan.

They asked for a caravan on social Man And again this is where this looks like it's sort of.

They asked for a caravan on social Man And again this is where this looks like it's sort of.

I've called it. Tammy Fruzi had been arrested the week before and I got in contact with one of the people who knew her. I've been chatting with him back and forth in it. And when I found out that it was her that they were looking at over this potential terror plot, I messaged said, mate, Tammy and caravans does that ring any bells. He said, yeah, I remember a Facebook.

I've called it. Tammy Fruzi had been arrested the week before and I got in contact with one of the people who knew her. I've been chatting with him back and forth in it. And when I found out that it was her that they were looking at over this potential terror plot, I messaged said, mate, Tammy and caravans does that ring any bells. He said, yeah, I remember a Facebook.

Post say has anybody got a caravan?

Post say has anybody got a caravan?

And he sends it to me from December sixth, right, and police had already said they thought the caravan had been put at Drew on December seventh. I'm going this and car't be right. And I've called a cop and said hey, I've got this and they said a bit so yeah, I wouldn't you wouldn't be but unbelievable. So that the why, I mean, who would want to do this? There's lots of theories. One theory that some people have given a lot of a lot of prominence to is the fact that a criminal may be setting up a big plot or a fake plot to essentially use that as a bargaining chip with police to say, I know about this terror plot that's having It's going to happen if no one had found the caravan before then. So there's a caravan loaded with explosives out at Dural and the addresses of a couple of Jewish at early parole? Can I get out?

And he sends it to me from December sixth, right, and police had already said they thought the caravan had been put at Drew on December seventh. I'm going this and car't be right. And I've called a cop and said hey, I've got this and they said a bit so yeah, I wouldn't you wouldn't be but unbelievable. So that the why, I mean, who would want to do this? There's lots of theories. One theory that some people have given a lot of a lot of prominence to is the fact that a criminal may be setting up a big plot or a fake plot to essentially use that as a bargaining chip with police to say, I know about this terror plot that's having It's going to happen if no one had found the caravan before then. So there's a caravan loaded with explosives out at Dural and the addresses of a couple of Jewish at early parole? Can I get out?

Early?

Early?

Cops are saying, that's not as stupid as it sounds. There is also the flat out thought that potentially somebody was going to plant this caravan outside either the Great Synagogue or a Jewish museum and detonate it.

Cops are saying, that's not as stupid as it sounds. There is also the flat out thought that potentially somebody was going to plant this caravan outside either the Great Synagogue or a Jewish museum and detonate it.

I mean, there was some suggestion that possibly outlaw motorcycle gangs might have something to do with that. We know that a lot of them have very strong connections to Islamic extremism. Is it someone maybe saying, well, I've got these useless idiots here who will do anything we say, do we just do this to scare the Jesus out of the Jewish community, because that's what we like to do, which is what the other attacks have been there, just to scare people.

I mean, there was some suggestion that possibly outlaw motorcycle gangs might have something to do with that. We know that a lot of them have very strong connections to Islamic extremism. Is it someone maybe saying, well, I've got these useless idiots here who will do anything we say, do we just do this to scare the Jesus out of the Jewish community, because that's what we like to do, which is what the other attacks have been there, just to scare people.

Exactly, I mean, you know. And then there is also that thought that, yeah, somebody had put it there hoping that it would be found and that it would blow up into a massive story like this and create fear. I think it's a long way from Dural too, you know, the point of actually blowing it up from the I mean, it's a long way from this carrier and being found in Dural two it actually being blown up. But police have to take this at as highest that that is potentially what could have happened that.

Exactly, I mean, you know. And then there is also that thought that, yeah, somebody had put it there hoping that it would be found and that it would blow up into a massive story like this and create fear. I think it's a long way from Dural too, you know, the point of actually blowing it up from the I mean, it's a long way from this carrier and being found in Dural two it actually being blown up. But police have to take this at as highest that that is potentially what could have happened that.

You can't you can't underplay this at all, No, absolutely not. And this is the thing. I mean, I think the fact that this is the latest escalation of a pattern of anti Semitic attacks where it appears that actual individuals specifically have been targeted. We know that Alex Rifkin, the head of the Executive Council of Australian Jury. They went to his old address. God only knows what would have happened if he was home, or if he said, hey, what are you doing at the front door and they've got a jerry can and god knows what else. So that is what makes it credible, isn't it. And I can't really think of a point, certainly not in my lifetime, where a terror attack deliberately targeting Jewish Australians would have actually been credible in the past. I mean, is it is amazing the atmosphere that has just suddenly crept up on the country in the last year in a bit.

You can't you can't underplay this at all, No, absolutely not. And this is the thing. I mean, I think the fact that this is the latest escalation of a pattern of anti Semitic attacks where it appears that actual individuals specifically have been targeted. We know that Alex Rifkin, the head of the Executive Council of Australian Jury. They went to his old address. God only knows what would have happened if he was home, or if he said, hey, what are you doing at the front door and they've got a jerry can and god knows what else. So that is what makes it credible, isn't it. And I can't really think of a point, certainly not in my lifetime, where a terror attack deliberately targeting Jewish Australians would have actually been credible in the past. I mean, is it is amazing the atmosphere that has just suddenly crept up on the country in the last year in a bit.

Yeah, it really is, especially considering because I mean, obviously, when October seven happened back in twenty twenty three, there was you know, a massive outpouring from both sides here and then it probably peeded off for a bit. But for some reason, off the back of I would say it's honest, the one year anniversary, it's really just kicked up to a level that You're right, you've never seen. I've never seen. I've never seen anything like it, you know. I mean you probably have to go back to the Cronella rights to think about something that is purely race based.

Yeah, it really is, especially considering because I mean, obviously, when October seven happened back in twenty twenty three, there was you know, a massive outpouring from both sides here and then it probably peeded off for a bit. But for some reason, off the back of I would say it's honest, the one year anniversary, it's really just kicked up to a level that You're right, you've never seen. I've never seen. I've never seen anything like it, you know. I mean you probably have to go back to the Cronella rights to think about something that is purely race based.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean I was about to go back to that because I remember I did a bit of stuff and I've got nowhere near the stripes that you do or most does. But you know, I did a bit of work exposing white supremacists, and I had sort of sources that put me in touch with some of their kind of chat rooms. I'm not sure if they're dark web, but sort of certainly not out in the light, and exposed a couple of these people and working in surprising positions. But the police, when I spoke to them about these sorts of things, would say, listen, we don't even want to give these guys credit. They're seeking publicity. They're a tiny, tiny number. If you exaggerate their threat or their impact or what they're doing, that actually just sort of helps them. And I had a slightly different view. I thought, these people need to be exposed. I think about that all the time, because that has all changed completely now, hasn't it. Like the escalation of that threat to the Jewish community is not just that tiny number of sort of low level cases, you know, like you know in cells, you know, sitting on their computers or sitting in their bedrooms with their little portrait of Hitler that they worship each night. It seems to have really kind of got out of the bag, the genies out of the bottle, isn't it. You are the cops telling you that they have not seen this level of anti Semitism in the community so overt, so violent, so open.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean I was about to go back to that because I remember I did a bit of stuff and I've got nowhere near the stripes that you do or most does. But you know, I did a bit of work exposing white supremacists, and I had sort of sources that put me in touch with some of their kind of chat rooms. I'm not sure if they're dark web, but sort of certainly not out in the light, and exposed a couple of these people and working in surprising positions. But the police, when I spoke to them about these sorts of things, would say, listen, we don't even want to give these guys credit. They're seeking publicity. They're a tiny, tiny number. If you exaggerate their threat or their impact or what they're doing, that actually just sort of helps them. And I had a slightly different view. I thought, these people need to be exposed. I think about that all the time, because that has all changed completely now, hasn't it. Like the escalation of that threat to the Jewish community is not just that tiny number of sort of low level cases, you know, like you know in cells, you know, sitting on their computers or sitting in their bedrooms with their little portrait of Hitler that they worship each night. It seems to have really kind of got out of the bag, the genies out of the bottle, isn't it. You are the cops telling you that they have not seen this level of anti Semitism in the community so overt, so violent, so open.

Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think you're right. The number of incidents has been shocking. Some of the incidents have been really scary, you know, you talk about the attack on Alex Rifkin's house. There was a car's fire bomb, there was a childcare center at marou. Some of the other ones have been less serious, like just graffiti. Now add them all together and they're taking a serious toll on the Jewish community. You speak to anybody in that community, and those graffiti attacks aren't just graffiti attacks. By the time that there's been dozens and dozens, and you know, you're driving past these words on the side of the street as you go to work or school. But a caravan loaded with explosives to potentially blow up two of the most significant buildings in that culture in this city is so far on another level. Think if that had if that had happened, I don't know what the city would be looking like at a minute.

Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I think you're right. The number of incidents has been shocking. Some of the incidents have been really scary, you know, you talk about the attack on Alex Rifkin's house. There was a car's fire bomb, there was a childcare center at marou. Some of the other ones have been less serious, like just graffiti. Now add them all together and they're taking a serious toll on the Jewish community. You speak to anybody in that community, and those graffiti attacks aren't just graffiti attacks. By the time that there's been dozens and dozens, and you know, you're driving past these words on the side of the street as you go to work or school. But a caravan loaded with explosives to potentially blow up two of the most significant buildings in that culture in this city is so far on another level. Think if that had if that had happened, I don't know what the city would be looking like at a minute.

Well, thank god it did end. Amazing reporting, Amazing journalism. Josh Hanrahan, a crime reporter at The Daily Telegraph. Congratulations on just a killer scoop and hopefully thwarting a terrorist attack. Good on you, mate, and thanks for coming on the show. No pleasure. Well that's all we have time for this week. Thanks so much for your company. And of course, if you want to get in touch with this, if you want us to look into anything, if you want one of my Joe Explaining rants or any of your questions answered, just email The Real Story at Nova Podcasts dot com dot au or you can hit me up on my Instagram page, which is all I have left because I got nothing but my looks, got nothing left to lean on but my looks. These days at Joe Underscore Hildebrand, you can slide into my DMS plus you can leave us a review or let's face it, who bans the lead reviews? Just leave us a rating, just five stars. All you have to do. Just that's done. And you can read me every Monday and Saturday in the Daily Telegraph and various news mastheads if you can't get enough of me, that is, and if you can, I'll just see you next week.

Well, thank god it did end. Amazing reporting, Amazing journalism. Josh Hanrahan, a crime reporter at The Daily Telegraph. Congratulations on just a killer scoop and hopefully thwarting a terrorist attack. Good on you, mate, and thanks for coming on the show. No pleasure. Well that's all we have time for this week. Thanks so much for your company. And of course, if you want to get in touch with this, if you want us to look into anything, if you want one of my Joe Explaining rants or any of your questions answered, just email The Real Story at Nova Podcasts dot com dot au or you can hit me up on my Instagram page, which is all I have left because I got nothing but my looks, got nothing left to lean on but my looks. These days at Joe Underscore Hildebrand, you can slide into my DMS plus you can leave us a review or let's face it, who bans the lead reviews? Just leave us a rating, just five stars. All you have to do. Just that's done. And you can read me every Monday and Saturday in the Daily Telegraph and various news mastheads if you can't get enough of me, that is, and if you can, I'll just see you next week.