The Recessing Podcast with Yours Truly. Jeezy is a production of Black Effect and Our Heart Radio. This is Jeezy, Grammy nominated Urban philosopher, philanthropists and entrepreneur, and this is my show, The Recessing Podcast. For years, I used my music to highlight the struggles and issues facing this country the economy, politics, protests, mental health and more. And now strong voices are more important than ever before. On this show, I will speak the powerful people from all walks of life to have real conversations about change, perseverance, and hope. In each episode will feature a sample of a song from my new album, The Recession Too. So, without further ado, let's begin The Recessing Podcast. Let's get it. There's no doubt the last week was absolutely crazy. Pro Trump ride is broken to the Capitol Building. Imagine that, trying to stop votes from being certified until presidential election. Wow. Today, we're gonna talk about it with my friend Ari Melbourne. That's right, he's an attorney, a chief legal correspondent for MSNBC and he's also the host of The Beat where Ari Melbourne. But before we get started, let's get into a song that inspired this from my album The Recessing two and it's entitled here we go because it's own now one. Let's get it. Here we go scout shop to hold him this bother doe doe bitch, I got blue one that's on the flue unt on this sick night being Ye see what I can smelling on your shirts because I can smelling on the word My uncle used to tivin you're worth worthand used to make me go to church times getting hold still believing guard. You know some niggers down and bridling fraud already. How you feeling, brother, I'm all right, it's great to be with you. I've interviewed you and now now the tables and turns turn right. Tell mebody. I love it though, and it's good though, because I appreciate you, um having me on the show, and I watched what you do and it's just like you know, when you shot me out on i G. Everybody hit me like, oh he had it again. So it's like, you know, you're invited to all the cookouts by the way. You just let me know which one you want to pull up back when this pandemic is over. Um. But I just appreciate the love and I appreciate you know, you're being a support of what I do and also bringing me into your world and and and letting me speak for my culture. So shout out to you for that. Thank you, thank you for stopping by the podcast. And um, you know, so happy New Year, you know, Marry Christmas, all that good stuff. It's been a minute and it sounds like you've got a lot of things going. But before we get into that, I just want to start, you know, and and and this is like, no, this is random, mortal. So, uh, there's a lot of things that's going on in this world right now, in especially our country. And what do you think the state of our country is right now? Like? What what do you think is like in Layman's terms, like tell me what you see, so I can tell you what I think. You know what I'm saying. We are living through this tremendous change, uh, and a very angry and racist backlash to the change. So both things are true. Way more people stood up for change in November. And then I don't have to tell you again in in Georgia, correct, And that is numerically larger than what is still a large and emergency crisis for the United States, Which is this this racist insurrection? Uh you used to be if you said insurrection a few years back, you sounded inge, that's literally what it is. And as you know, a lot of people have warned about this for a long time whether we can see clearly what's going on in America. So I think both things are true. I mean we're speaking here on a Monday, coming out of Wednesday's terrorism, Wednesday's attacks, And oh and you would you would you would label it in the tech terrorism. Well, some of it was speech, some of it was march, some of it was violence. Some of it was violence perpetuated with a political goal to terrorize. So some of it was looks like terrorism. Now, as a lawyer, I could tell you everyone is legally innocent, will proven guilty, everyone has their rights. Um, but the crimes we saw range from trespassing to uh two, what you would charge on was murder, attempted murder and and and potentially terror. Yeah, yeah, it gets it gets real once people actually get hurt. Um. Well, we're kind of jumping around since you said it like that would one's goal be too even incite something like them? Like what would you think is a fear tactic? And if it is, like, do you think that that was gonna change? Uh, the ballots and the way people saw the votes and the recounts and in the change in of offices, Like how does that? How does that work? I think the two main things were overthrowing the election and this racist backlash overthrowing the election. You don't need a lawyer or a journalist. You just see it. You just see. You have an incumbent president Donald Trump who doesn't concede, doesn't accept the reality, and is doing a bunch of different things. Whether they all cross the line or not maybe a legal question, but he's doing a bunch of different things to try to overturn the election and stay in power if he could. And that's really real. It's so heavy, it's hard for not I think it could be hard for everyone accept that. Number two is you know, we're you know, you could tell us what you see in Georgia. But I don't think it's a coincidence that is Georgia expels. It's two Republican senators puts into Democrats, one of whom happens to be black, one of them who happens to be Jewish, and you and people are marching into that capital, trespassing, committing crimes, attacking police. Uh, you know, there were you know what what some call black Twitter, right on black Twitter and people being like, how are you gonna how are you gonna attack the police while waving a blue Lives Matter flag. Well, well, the craziest thing is the fact that you can even put at tech the police in the same sentence. Is that because you know, well I'm standing when those things happen. Even in our neighborhoods, you know, they call in full force, I mean everything, but the swats sometimes Right now, we're talking politics is a subject that I try to stay as far away from as I can because I'm not a plitician, and I do understand there's a lot of games that's being played in the mix. But but jumping around politics seemed like it should be everybody's business right now. If you're black, white, green, yellow, orange, you know, it's like you almost got to sit back and watch what's going on because you'll get lost because all these different things that happened in real time. And when you hear impeach, you know, you think that means you're out of here. But this is like the second time they're about to try to impeach this guy, and you're like, Okay, well what happened the first time. And it's just like, I just think there's so many things that the culture doesn't understand about politics because we've never seen anything play out like this. We always used to being um on the victimized side. And it's just like I saw this this video that this guy was standing on the porch and d C. He was calling them traders, and he was saying, if this was Black Lives matters, there would be tanks all up and down Lincoln Boulevard. Uh what Philadelphia, but whatever the boulevard he was saying that they was on And I agree because it's just like, you know, when we had our situations and and and and we marks and and they came in Pepper sprayed and did everything but drop a bomb. And he went to the church and got the Bible and did the whole thing, and they didn't approve of that. You know, that was him in sight inciting something. Then it was almost he was trying to show us that he wasn't scared and and and as he shouldn't be. But then you turn around and now you put your goons to run in the Capitol building. But I'm like, Okay, so I'm watching and I'm looking, but I'm like, what's the reason for that, Like, what's the reason for the Capitol building? Because if my people were marching, we're gonna just stay on the street. We don't want to go in the capitol because we know you know what I'm saying, like, we don't know what that means. So I want you to explain to me and Lame's terms, what he's thinking or what was the reason why they wanted to to to to go to the Capitol building to show their presence. Number One, I always trying to deal in facts, right, and I go out on the news. I've had a lot of Trump supporters on. I interview different people. There are legitimate views out across the spectrum. You have to deal with people who just said you with But we're also dealing here with crime, and we're dealing with murder. So we were in a tough spot in terms of how much credence do you give the people who are just what they were really doing is providing now their legal defense because they are accused of really heinous crimes. As for the disparity on the beat on MSNBC. We ran these numbers on Thursday, so that was the first day after this incident, and we went through how on a single day in Washington, d C. During Black Lives Matter protests last year, when nobody breached the capitol, nobody was murdered, let alone, you know, the insurrection, black activists and others, because let's remember, of course there's a lot of these protests there. It's a diverse crowd, but it's a Black Lives Matter protests were arrested at six times the rate of the individuals in what we saw wednesday. So that that that right there for anyone who says, wait a minute, show me the facts. I don't just want to hear, you know, claims or or criticism. That's a fact. And that's the same city with the same type of law enforcement capital area, totally different treatment to say nothing of all the larger the larger trends we have. So I think number one, who controls federal law enforcement in washing d C right now, the Trump administration. Right, they're supposed to be independents, they're supposed to be layers. But at the end of the day, when you go up that line up, the FBI, up the National Garden, d C, up the FEDS. You get to people who are appointed by Donald Trump, and you get to the fact that Donald Trump went and spoke that day and told those people were marching on the Capitol and then they took him literally. So there's a lot of disparity there that goes to the law enforcement. Now that doesn't mean all officers or anything like that. Indeed, we've been reporting on and showing videos of both areas where they were overwhelmed, areas where they were trying to hold the line, but they may not have had the advancement, the support they would have in other scenarios. And then you go to and we showed video this too. We have officers from other incidents where we have activists with their hands up, Black activists peacefully assembled in the lawful place, not trespassing, and there and their Billy club or worst. So we all we're all living through this. Now Again, it's my job to say, no, you can't. I can't tell you if anything about every police officer anyone that I can tell you anything about every person, every Jewish person, every black person, every white person. Right, But when I put the trends in the statistics together, there's disparate treatment, there's systemic racism. Everyone saw the differences on Wednesday, and then I guess the other question you asked is what are these people trying to do. Some of them may have wanted to come peacefully assembled, which is their right, but some of them stormed the seat of government of democracy demanding a dictatorship, demanding their person being power even though he lost the election. That's where we are, that's and that sounds like a dictator's behavior. Um. Anytime you and and I saw what he was saying about his his former well after the next week, vice president, and it's just like my question is, now, do do do do businessmen make great presidents? Because in business you can be tough like that, you know you can, you can really, you know, use your muscle when it comes to getting things done. Um, whether it is pressing somebody or or blackmail in them or whatever it is. But it's almost like with this situation, like the recounting Georgia. And it's crazy because my city, my state has a lot to do with. Um, you know what's going on now those two Senate seats and the runoff and we'll talk about that in just a second. Um, But just watching that and and just knowing how wholesome of a you know state, this is like we don't cheat, we don't even see the our taxes, know what I'm saying. This is like we just that just who we are, Like we just wholesome. And everybody really got out and voted, like I saw it. You know, our our early voting numbers was up on both races. Um. People were really out full force, and you can feel the energy in the city. And for him to come and just discredit that and say they changed the machines and all these different things, you know, that says a lot about his character. And I'm not here to bass, but I watched a little short snippet of how he was brought up and the things that he went through, and it all makes sense because he was brought up in a way that he feels superior to any situation. And then if he doesn't feel superior, he has excuses. But he was raised that way, so you can't really fault him. But you can't pull the wool over the whole world's eyes at one time. And my question to you is, like, what do other countries think about what we're going through right now, Like this is America, Like this is you know what I'm saying, Like you think somebody sitting back, like damn the Capitol building is that easy to get in? Like m you know, it just seems a fleaky well. Number One, those people who went in there exposed a real vulnerability for us, because that's a terror target. We're gonna have an inauguration, We're gonna have a State of the Union, So it looks like, unfortunately, at least on that day, you could have a little protest and then have people go inside it and march right through and get in. So that's a vulnerability. That's a national security concerned one. Um Two, I think America is like any nation, full of all of its complexity and diversity, and we have much to be proud of. And there's a reason why we're a great world power and why many people echo us from our governmental system, which is still with all of its flaws, has still held up better than many There's a reason why even as you and I talk right now amidst all this, we have some confidence that the United States military is not just gonna swing and take over. Military is stronger and more independent than then Donald Trump or his supporters any of that. Right now, we had every Secretary Defense and both parties come up and say that there are countries where're they're not that strung. So that's some good stuff. Then we have some real, real problems. And I think around the world they're seeing this. How many lectures have different presidents tried to give other countries about democracy and civil society or whatever, and you saw this. This is an embarrassment. I think it is an international humiliation, both for what happened and reinforced by the fact that what happened was was not some isolated fringe element but was cheered on by sitting president of the United I think it's gonna take time for us in the world to even except that I've been on stage before, it was like, you know that we ain't leaving here, you know what I'm saying, and and been arrested for inciting the ride and that and that was in the club on the stage, so so I'm massive getting up there and saying and it's just like I say, again, you know, we are in perfect leaders. And I think that you have to really look at people's values and their morals and their moral compass and their integrity when it comes to leadership, and everybody shouldn't lead. I think, you know, it's it's you know, it's great to do business. You know, you can bring a guy in who could take the company from you know, from zero to a hundred, you know, real quick. But that doesn't mean that he has the the people skills or the leadership skills to lead. No, no, no no, it's just what I real quick, real quick, real quick um. But that doesn't mean that they are great leaders. And I just think that you know now when you start talking about and a lot of people beg the differ when we said Barack Obama and these things. But I don't know what the economy did when he was in. But I do know, coachally in in in world worldwide, people just saw a calmer um place like the United States was a place where there was empathy and and and and people felt for the people and it was just like, you know, okay, we we gotta look out for one another, we gotta take care of one another. And sometimes my uncle always told me, like all money ain't good money. So the money might come, but the term more behind it might not be worth it, and so everybody could beg the different than when Trump was in office, that that you know, the money was flowing people, it was less um, poverty and all these different things. But the termoil behind it and the integrity that we stand on, I think it's been compromised. And when you sit back and look at it, it's just like it was. It's a pandemic. We don't have a handle on this. People's lives have shifted, you know, and and and people have pivoted so many times trying to find other ways to um, to to be deductive and to keep their families intact. Then you have you know, clearly that wasn't handled right now, you have a whole uh if you've not seen it before, we almost had a civil war happen right before our eyes, you know, and people being slain in the streets. And that's all under your watch. And now on your way out, you cause all this turmoil, and we all got to sit here and watch your clan and your your your coat, and we sit there and we watch this and we go damn like and and that's why I want to talk to you, is like where do we go from here? Because it's just like now we're going into a new regime. Um, we're still in the pandemic. Um we're dealing with racism. I mean, it's right there in our face. And now the world as we know it is split down the middle for real, because now we know that there's a possibility to these people can be violent and that you know it doesn't stop there. And when you said it in the beginning, when as you said terror, that was a real turn for me, because that means that you'll do anything, you know, even in the dark, to get your point across, if you're not happy with how things played out. So like, where do we go from here as the country? I mean, jeez, I think you you're asking the right question. I mean the short answers. I don't know, you know. I mean I part of what I get to do in my work is I do talk to these people. So I get to talk to people in Congress and activists and leaders and thinkers, so I listen to all of them. I don't know, but I think that because we're in a time of profound conflict, it will be very important for the country to navigate that conflict. So if there are double standards like we just were discussing earlier in race in other ways or or a political double standards. Um, then you don't have accountability. So I think one of the big questions is, at the narrowest level, what happens on Wednesday? If I tell you they were literally less arrest with a multi hour crimes and on TV. Is the pressure to change that then when the new government comes in, because that's part of what this was about. This was a criminal act to try to prevent that which the people across the country chose, that which the people of Georgia chose, that which all of this. Right, Donald Trump was on the phone a week before this riot, you know, trying to use all of these power to hit the Georgia officials by about what happened. Just find me, he didn't if I listened to the whole call as part of my job, right, he says, you know, it's eleven thousand votes, Just fine, just get find me the votes. That doesn't that that's just doesn't mean find the votes like they exist. That just means let's cancel, right And then so, so I think there's gonna be real questions about what does that accountability look like and We're living in a time where people have different facts. And if you have the same facts and you watch the same video and you say, this person beat an officer to death, Okay, shouldn't matter whether they were white or black in that instance, right, they beat an officer to death. This person is an identified Trump supporter. This person responded to Trump's tweets saying, come in January six, it will be wild. Right when you excuse me, when you add that all up, you have to have a fact. And then what do you do about the fact. We're living in a society now where everything I just said to you, which is on video, which is provable, Right, We've got a lot of people who won't acknowledge and see the first fact. They'll say, but that wasn't really what happened. That's fake news. Or there were members of Congress falsely trying to suggest that maybe those weren't, uh, these right wing Trump supporters, but they were. That was it was not a trumpet for this storm, but it was. And the Associated Press today has an exhaustive account. Again, because there's things we don't know. You could say, how you know, how did the earth, how did the earth of the universe really start. You weren't there. Who my religious story? Someone else is, here's my science, But we weren't there. That's like a bigger debate, right, But like, here's this person, here's their name, here's their address, here's their social media, here's their support for Trump. AP has a story documented all that. So we have members of Congress in government, we have other types of media. So if you can't agree on the first fact, jeezy, right, if then you have no ability to get to accountability. If somebody's sitting in Georgia wherever and they go. I heard it wasn't Trump supports. I heard it was people trying to make Trump supporters look bad, right, which, by the way, is an admission that they know this was indefensible. Right. Sometimes Trump was doing things and people would say, well, he's you know, he's he's he's wild, he's crazy. You know, I like it, Okay, you know, And now you've got people going, uh, that wasn't us, Yes it was, And it's it is crazy because he sat there, and he went in and and and and I can't lie like when I look at his supporters and just look at who they are and where they come from. Arkansas Alabama. You know, it's a deep rooted thing with them, and they love this guy like for what is worth. They like, they really believe in what he says, what he thinks, and their fans to to to too from where I'm standing, like, they're not They're really fans of what he does. And the thing I can't say about him is he's straightforward, like he's transparent, Like he lets you know the bullshit he's on off the rip. So you gotta respect that at least, and I think that's what they respected about him. They feel like he's he's a fighter. But I wonder now how they feel because he had to come out. He didn't take any accountability, which is not a leader thing to do. But um, he basically said, you know, you guys were wrong and you know this this is bad and we gotta all get along. And it's just like, does that does that tarnished? You know? This this thing that you built with people that they feel like you can point a finger Because even when I listened to his son and he was like, yo, um, if you don't support my dad will be in your backyard. That sounds like some money and shit. I'm like, yeah, you know what I'm saying, like they really they really cut like that, you know, from from what I'm standing, And you know, I look at that and I'm like, damn, so now these people have done what they did. You know, of course they cost some lives, um and and we send our condolences out there. Um. But it's like, okay, now you get out of this position, the leadership, and you just trynish what a little bit of legacy you had, and you relinquish your power, and you know, I gotta wonder. You know, I don't know what kind of charges this guy got coming, but it almost feels like to me, like Ship, that's why he's fighting. He's not fighting for the people. He's fighting to stay in power because once they pull that that that that that bulletproof sealed off of him, he he's an accepted anything that comes, you know, saying that's that's why I feel like he's scrambling, because it's almost like ship, if I'm not in power and they started pulling all these things up on me, like what happens? You think he's trying to protect itself for you feel like, you know, he really feels like he did a great job. He's the best thing. And I know you can't answer it for him, but I'm just seeing the lame's terms for us. I bet he knows he's in more legal jeopardy today than he was last week. And he's canny, and he's been away his way around a lot of things. I mean, sooner or later, we're gonna have to get to some bars. Jeezy. Even in the serious portions of this conversation, UM, a lot of people feel like Trump's and getting away with everything to the end. He got away, he got away, he keeps getting away. You know, this ain't the first time we've seen someone get away with things for a long time in the world. Mob deep crime pays, but for how long until you reach your down phone? And some people fall early and some people make it a long way, but for how long? M M. He may ultimately face more legal accountability. He certainly will have less power than he does right now. There are legal reasons why I'll have more exposure. Because when you're president, the d o J says you can't even really be indicted. It's not it's not a law, but that's what they say. But when you're not president, you can be That's why Richard Nixon wanted that pardon. That's why he didn't want the pardon because he thought, well, I'm the ex president, I'm good. He wanted the pardon because he was like, I'm not president anymore and anything could happen. So that is one thing. Second, you said something about how do people feel now if they liked his honesty before, they like this and that Donald Trump is America's tequila. You have a little bit of it, you might start feeling yourself you have too much of it out of pocket, and if you have way more of it, you wake up the next day and you go like, what did we do? Hell? So it's like funny but serious. Where I do think there's some people who are gonna be right or die to the end. Fine, but there's other people in America who and this this kind of doubles back to what you said about the where do we go? Jeez, It's like there may be other people who are like, wow, on that bender, America got way louder and angrier and more racist, got way more authoritarian now that happened, but that can never be denied. That's wrong. But just like with tequila, some some parts of America, some people might say. They might say they now see more than they realized, or they see the hate, but they don't want to be that today, So that that that's un coming upon them. It's not our job, your job, someone else's is on them to figure out do they want to say, Well, what they said and didn't support it on that bender was wrong. They don't want to be about that hate anymore. Or there's some people who say, oh, they're gonna be low key, low key hateful, like well he says this is that he doesn't really mean it. Well, this is a this is a country that was founded on slavery and subjugation and had a civil war over it. So you can't just go out talking loose like that and not expect what, oh, expect people with Confederate flags to marshal the capital, chasing down officers, you know, harassing this this African American officer beating another officer to death. Right, this ain't about Blue Lives matter, This is about all that other stuff. So what do you do with the bend? Or some people may stay with them, the other people may go, well, if this is what we were doing, if this is what they stand for, they don't want to be a part of it anymore, and that could be progress too. And I don't mean they can't be Republicans or conservative or pro life. I don't mean any of that. I worked very hard to be fair to all the issues in my work. I mean, Donald Trump has not taking it ounce the responsibility for an in direction that involved kill it. So if you're out there and you're a Trump supporter and your guy won't take responsibility, this is the time to say, not oh, you can't be a Republican, but do you do you want to post something? Do you want to say something? Or are you also gonna just stand and be silent with this? Because we've learned throughout world history silence in the face of this as good as being guilty. Yeah, just like being guilty. But that says a lot about him having on Yep, politics, politics, what's going on? Like everybody's into it. Um, I'm seeing more support and shout out to um, you know, Georgia for putting this Senate run off. But I have to ask myself, like could it have been done without the coach of hip hop? I mean Stacy Abrams sewed up on the intro to the verses like she's a she's an o g for that. At this point, Uh, you know, Joe Biden called me out to help him, you know, uh rally rally the people of Georgia. Uh, same thing with us off and um and you're gonna go from my president is black to my president is old. That's the re re remix u um. But it's crazy because I remember the time when you know, they was trying to ban me on CNN in all these different places, and now it's just like, you know, they realized the influence that we have, and a lot of us are not all the way with it because of course, you know, some people supported Trump and some people supported who they support it, but that's their personal opinion. But I just I just want to know, you know, what what the what the common denominator is, and and just how both worlds can intertwine like that, because where you have music and then people look at it like, okay, it's it's hip hop, it's culture. But then when it comes to a time in the world where it has to make a change and things have to change, that to call on these same people that they demonize or put it aside because of what they represent. But they but we have our finger on the posts of the coaching has to be voices that they respected the trust. So when I think about hip hop and politics, tell let me put it like this. This is Jeez. So we got a lot of jez fans listening. I bet right, I hope. So let me let me tell it like fans. Joe Biden didn't call his campaign didn't call Jeezy to help Jees. The campaign called Jeezy to help Joe Biden. That's how politics works, right, That's how politics works. So you, and I would say, even more important than you the bond you have, the credibility you have with your community, which is in Georgia, with with the people who listen to you and follow you, which is international. That's special, and they do their jobs well enough to figure out where that is and they want that. Now you have your own ethics and your reasoning for who you support, just like you were a vocal in Obama with you and I talked about on air. But that's important. Don't ever forget that I'm speaking to the listeners that that's hip hop, that's you. That's that you've discerned who to listen to, and your vote matters, and these politicians they want that, then you still make up your own mind. Not everyone's gonna what they're gonna get as an audience that they might not get. Right. It's not like, oh, Geez likes this, so I'm definitely doing that. But it's it might be like, well, let me give it a listen, let me see what this the campaign is for. In the case of Georgia, ain't usually elections in January, right, So it might be as simple as like, well, you have fallen people like if you're not a if you're not a total nerd, and you're living your life and it's COVID and it's a recession and I ain't talking about Jez recession. I'm talking about then yeah, you might be busy. If not, no, oh wait what we just had an election. No, no, now there's an excellent why that's where. So so they they want you, they want your community, they want hip hop. That's because hip hop has credibility. Hip Hop is the lingering, enduring language of a huge part of America, particularly slightly younger America, by which in politics, younger means like under fifty means not seniors, um. And so I think that's that's important and it then also goes to the contrast you drew, which is we're coming off very recent history where a lot of politicians in both parties would demonize hip hop, would use hip hop as a stand into attack what I would call just Black America, to show they could stand up to that, to associate it with crime. And yes, we all know there's plenty of songs that are about street life and involve criminal discussion, but there's plenty of songs that don't. So I think it is a It is a contrast. I think the question always in in politics would be all right, what does the community get back for it? Right? And how do you keep that going? So it's not just around the campaigns or around election time when they need something, but how do you build that up? I do think if you look at today's Democratic Party, it's more diverse than it's ever been in its in its elected leadership. A woman of color is uh in the White House vice President elect Harrits. That's never happened before. Um Obama did interesting things with hip hop, although I do think it's the first black president. He was definitely like, but I got I got a love for Mama. But when I didn't get that White House invitation. I don't know. Let me say this. There were people in that room and sold as much as you, so they didn't even make my president's black. So we're saying, because I know the meeting you're talking about, I think that my past is real. And that's what I can really say. I'm quite sure when the Secret Service, when they did their work, they're like, Okay, this, this is this is this is a real guy. Like this ain't rap, you know, And because that's the only thing it could because other than that, I've done everything right, so it would have to be my past. But I had to ask myself like them, like, you know, I really got out because and the thing about being in the leadership position, like you you know, if you don't have any passion, that's like having a rose rush with no fuel, you know what I mean. Like I got passed, so I was passionate about it, and I really get out here put my credibility on the line because I wasn't supposed to even be concerned with stuff like that. I was already the people's champ and then to not to get invited, and I saw some of the people that was there I'm like, damn, what you do? What he says? I mean, you would came about better getting public enemy or somebody who was really you know what I'm saying. I mean, you know, like n w A or something, but like somebody who really stood for this, you know, this this culture, and um, you know, I was just like damn, and and and then sometimes you gotta really ask because yeah, yourself, because just like sometimes you are not close enough to the ground to actually see what people really gravitate to, what people but really what really has the influence because you know, I probably myself on you know, and there was a choice for me to evolve, But I also knew that because it's the bottom that's overcrowded, you know what I mean. The top is not crowded. So for me, it's just like how can I position myself to help my coach? And I go through it a lot now when people like, oh you setting now you're in the policy, it's like, no, I just know this guy is not right for us. And if I can go talk to this guy and it makes sense, I'm gonna side with this because this is a better thing for us, not me, like my kids, our future, their future, it's not the end all be all, but it has to start somewhere, and now we're end up we end up this and where we can sit down with these people because I don't remember. I don't even know who was president when Tupac was doing this thing, but I'm quite sure they didn't sit down with him. It's probably scared to death of them, you know. So for now, I took a lot of time to you know, evolve, you know, read, uh, you know, getting mentors, you know, just better my mindset so that I can be more effect because the problem was I was going into these situations without any knowledge, so I don't know what to ask for anyway, I don't know the questions to ask. I'm just sitting down with these people, and I'm kind of glad I didn't walk in with Obama because I didn't know what the hell to ask them. But you know, we're gonna take this flick and uh, you know what I'm saying, chop it up a little bit. But it's just like now I got real questions and and and it's crazy because had I not been able to get into music and and and be able to have influenced because I am a real guy, and I failed way more time than I succeeded. And to get in a place where I'm at least respected for my integrity and who I am and the music that I made. That got me in a position where I'm able to go even have these conversations, even to support anybody, because you gotta think, you know, you go back ten years or fifteen years, I taxpayer. I didn't even know what that was, you know what I'm saying. So it's just like now I am a taxpayer. Now I am a staple of my community. Now I am Grammy nominated recording artists. And yeah, I do have against the pass, and I do I have been through some things. But now I can sit down with the President of leg and I can said, hey, listen, I understand what you've got going on, but these are are concerns and I'm speaking for all of us, at least the ones that feel like I feel. But that wouldn't happen without him, So I gotta sit back and look at it and go, ain't that Ain't that something hip hop? And I think that's really interesting. And you know, for those listening, we're talking about specifically, when President Obama had a bunch of leaders in hip hop and some R and B at the White House. Um, yes, and uh. And then you have but you have Jess with all the roots and my president is black and everything else all that, and I'm sitting at the creb looking at the picture like like you know, I think. The other thing, the other thing I'll say about hip hop is this is real life storytelling, even when it has exaggeration and bravado. And so if you take like a classical musician like Mozart contributed a lot, but it's so different. Nobody says, but did Mozart really live that life? Was Mozart really out there with those keys he's about that? Did he really trapped? Doesn't? Was he really in the was he really in the band over? Don't? It doesn't even compute, right, It's not the question. But with hip hop, whether you are you know, in Atlanta listening to it and you actually are out there and you know some some people, or you're just a person. You know, we got hip hop fans all over the world. This culture is global, this Black American culture, and it can be more than that, but it is. It is first and foremost is Black American culture. Um. It has fans and followers around the world. That's great. Hip Hop has never said as far as I'm as far as I hear it, you tell me if you you know see a different. But hip hop has never said you have to be this, you have a move here and pretend to be this that's not real. Either. Hip hop said this is real, this is what's going on here. Let me tell you this truth, and then the rest of the world can deal with that. Uh. And so that's that's about keeping it real. Like some phrases come and go, right, like I don't know if we'll be saying bob in five years right, lingo changes. Keeping it real has always maintained as a phrase in hip hop because it's always important because that's authentic. So you're gonna have a different level of connection. I think hip hop as a different level of storytelling right than other forms of music that might be awesome but just doesn't connect in that way. So people really feel you, people really look up to you, people really see and when you see people involved. When you see jay Z go from being yes, gangster trapped selling all that stuff which is narrated in his bars, to something else to being an entrepreneur to being a business to then saying oh, being an entrepreneur is not enough because if somebody else has then there's still in charge of way too much you want. Then it's like, oh, I'm a great owner, but am my good dad? Okay? Well, how many of us have excelled worked on one part of life only to try to figure out another and then to be an artist? And what artist does What hip hop does that other people don't do is other people in politics they hide it, they have the pr they you know, they massage it, they run an ad to make it go away. Jay Z Beyonce, they shared with us what they were going through. What is more raw and art than that? So I think that's why hip hop. Yeah, the length of the song may change, the platform may change, the streaming may change. The younger artists are doing a little different. Well, boy, when it comes back to is this real or not? Like to me? That's the other part of why that overlaps what you're what you're talking about, right? And I also think that you know, and I always use the term as leadership because I don't think people realize even your favorite artists, of people that you really support, they've been elected by the people. The people made them who they are, and it's because they're they're intrigued by the fact that you made it out of dire circumstances. Because even with even with my music and what I've done with my life, you know, I made a decision that instead of just talking about you know what I'm gonna do, I want to lead by a sample by showing people this is what I'm doing, even if it's not the cool, even if it's not the coolest thing to do at the time, Because I do know, when jay Z was making this transition, it wasn't cool to be entrepreneur. Everybody wanted to be a gangster, you know what I'm saying. Then when he started making this transition, you know, I remember the songs um you know, thirties, the New twenty and not wearing baseball jerseys and started wearing button ups, and people like, yo, he tripped, but you can't get you can't get you can't get them, you can't get it. But yeah, you gotta go ahead. How's it go. I don't wear jerseys, I'm thirty plus a pair of Jean's button up, the button up, Yeah, and it's just like but that's hip hop growing up, you know what I'm saying, that's it coming into a zone. And I think what makes people gravitate to it is because here you have these chosen people to come out of the slums, the most demonized you know, places on Earth, and then they come up like a shining star and they hold on to that and some of them make it, and then some of them don't. You know, you look at Pop Smoke, look at Nipsey Hustle, which some of my great friends like he Nipsey was great, like that was greatness. You know, he was coming into that and but we deal with so many guys circumstances. When you look at somebody like jay Z that came from the Marcy Projects and you look at the example he said and the way he's evolved in his life, you gotta go, damn like, that's the goal. So you you but you still want to keep your authenticity, so you don't want to get there and then your water down. So that's the even harder process. So it's still you're keeping it real. You're not losing your roots, You're not losing you know who you are as a person. You're not settling out and I think that's why, you know, the world respects it, and that's why it's the largest gendre music. But at the same time, it's like when you have the people that run the world. I always say that to myself. When I used to have conversations with people, they'd be like yo. I'd be like yo, I can go in an arena with sixty people and they're gonna recite every word for a whole hour. I don't know many presidents can do that, just so we clear, you know what I'm saying, just so were clear. And I feel that that's a power in its own And the power lies in how you navigated through life to get to where you are without falling short or or or getting played out or becoming a statistic or ended up behind bars. And you see these kids like you know, people talk about Bobby Smyrner like every day, like you never not hear about this kid. And when you get home, we're gonna be bigger than anything you can think of. Because when I sit back and listen to how he took his deal and he he was he was willing to do more time so that his homies can do less time. You know, even though I'm growing and I shouldn't even be thinking about that. I'm going like, yo, this is a real dude, and that makes me respect how he grew up, where he came from, and what it is about. But then on the flip side, you have somebody like myself who's evolving, and I go, damn, like, you know, I gotta steal sick to that g code. But I'm looking through a different scope. So I'm trying to get father. So cats like him when he come home and they see where a person like myself is that you know, um, you know, fifteen years in the game and that far removed. You know, I know, it's crazy for my home is to see me on my own talk show or even doing a podcast or even sitting down with Joe Biden or even because it's just like yo, jeez, we're just on the block with us. But that's what makes it real. So when I see him making moves like that and doing the things that he do, just look at the credible ability to the hand. So why have he comes out And let's just say I don't think he would be in the politics, you know, off the rip, but let's just say, you know, somebody wants to sit down with him that needs that influence. He got millions and millions of kids sitting waiting on his every word because they believe him, you know what I'm saying. They believe what he went through was real, and they know he said in that jail sell all that time, he kept solid. He ain't complained one time, and when he gets out, they're gonna give him their ears. And I think that's where hip hop is. And it's sad to say, you know, the harder it is for you, the more believable you are. And I think that's what the politicians see. They sit back and they go, Okay, he's from where all these things are going on. He understands it. How can we get involved? And if you look at the layer going back to the Senate run off of the people that they and listened and the people that they came and sat with, it's more who's a little more policy and refined that we can sit down and talk to Who's not gonna spend this left or right? That would be a jesy, that would be a t I. That would be a killer Mike. You know what I'm saying, Because we have enough knowledge to know care well, all right, I get it, I get it, I get it. Okay, this's the way I'm going about it. One thing, I was doing this uh campaign with the Atlanta Hawks, and so they did a jersey for me and everything. This is a real Atlanta jersey. And I came out and they had a snowman on it, and I sat there for me and thought to myself, like, they know what it means. I would imagine so but like when I was first, you know, like I would have never thought that I would be on an Atlanta Hawks jersey like man with the snow man, like a real snowman emblem. But they just shold you, um, the power of hip hop, you know. So let me actually, like, as far as your favorite artists, who do you feel like understand what's going on in the world and speak on it um in a respectful way that you respect where they're coming from. You know. I love Kendrick and what he does and what he says. He knows how to go away and come back, but he always has something real to say, So that would be my pick. Well, first of all, we're here shout out to Jeez. I got to tell you to mention you know, I do this show Nebruary Radio on Apple Music Hits. Now you got on the beat, I gotta get you on Nebruary someday when you have. At the time, I was just thinking just to give one gezy example and then I'll do others. But I was just playing on There I Do with you and jay Z and Andre, one of the class tracks that holds up so well and what we're what we're talking about, where it's love and commitment and how did those work in life? And like you and Jay started talking about that where you I do, I do, I do, and it feels like marriage, but you flip it to married, to the game, that loyalty. But then by the end, Andre takes it back to loving a woman and being a real marriage, right right. I think that's what he was talking about, cause he was talking about a lot. You gotta break Andre bars down because when when I first heard the first I was like, damn, he snapped, when you guys were you guys are all together for that? Or you were trading versus and listening? No, Well, it was crazy because um I sent the song to and it's crazy because I ran in three, like three is like a unicorn. Andre three thousand people. That's what we're talking about, the other half of the Almighty outcast, Andre three thousands, like a unicorn. You might see him in a strip club in the corner of mine, in his business. You might see him walking down road THEO and some cowboy boots like he just he just Andre. And I ran into Andre Um coming out of a hotel in l A that I was standing at the hotel for a couple of days and had a lot of press stuff to do. And when I came downstairs, I ran into him the same place I saw him at like six months before that. I was coming out of the elevator. He was going up. I said, you know, Dre, what's going on? Jeez was good baby. I said, yeah, you out here work. He's like yeah, I said you so listen, I got this tenth anniversary show coming up, and I want you to perform um with me. And you know, I want him to come out and do O do. And he was like, man, you know, Atlanta hadn't seen Entree for like ten years. He's like, man, let me think about it. And and and he called me at the Blues like yo, my my homies, telling me this is something I really need to be at and I was like, yeah, it's gonna be in the Fox Theater's gonna be crazy. He's like, I'm there. So he called me. He's like what should I wear? And I was like, you know that brave jersey man? People see in that brave jersey, they't know you mean business. He's like, Yeah, that's it, That's what I'm gonna do. So long story short. Backstage, we're getting ready to like three is here. He comes back in. You know, the whole show's got cordless Mike's he wants to Mike with a chord. I'm like, yo, get him a mic with three thousand and when I tell you, three came out there to do his verse for I do uh three head on the did him did them outfit with some cowboy boots? So I was looking at it like, yo, what happened to the that let of brave jersey? You know? But he killed it and it was crazy for him to come out and shout out of three for that, And we got a lot of love for three man because three solid, you know, he's a real Atlanta like he's he's the post of Atlanta when it comes to that, because what he did by pushing the barriers and and and what he did musically him and Big Boys is you know, undeniable. But to answer you a question about the records I had um, I called three around that time and got I mean when I saw him the first time in hotel and and was like, Yo, I need to get on this record, and he was just like, you'll send it to me. So a couple of months went by and he just sent it back and I'm just like, Yo, it's crazy. And I'm just sitting there. I'm like, you know, I gotta get j Z on this record. So I called j and I'm like, Yo, I got this, recommend me you in three thousand. He's like yo, He's like it's crazy. I was like it was one of the war was but anybody with some sense. No, I'm just gonna say this. You don't get on know three song with three thousands without hearing his verse first. So Jay was like, yeah, I send it, but send his verse two. Sent his verse two. So I said the record Jame knocked it out, and I was this close to getting the video, yo, man, I was this close to getting the video. And I got on the phone with Drey and he just likes easy. I love you, but I just I don't. I don't feel like doing videos right now, and I just had to respect it. But I think it made it more classic and shout out to Jay jay Z and uh, I mean that's crazy. I saw. I saw a picture yesterday on Instagram with us three in the picture. I never know we all. Yeah, I'm sure for you because you probably had moments in your career where you're so big I didn't know which you know, which thing was being memorialized. I mean, I know what you mean to the video. It's funny. Drake has a video where a Little Way and I believe was unavailable because I think he was incarcerated and they but they wanted to make the video and so they do. They had a thing where like they basically had someone in a mask looking sort of like a little Way and you know, and that's how they like covered it. But to your point, yeah, I mean, nowadays, especially with the younger generation, like whatever, people can find good music. Anyone listening. If you don't know how I do, for whatever reason, go go put on when the GEZ podcast is over. But the videos sometimes make a difference, Like I know, as a fan. If there was a video with you, Jay and three Stacks, I'd be watching that, you know, because I like videos. They just take you into the song and sometimes in a deeper way. Yo. Me and Jay had me Jay, we got a record call Seen it All. And for those you don't know, I probably had more songs with jay Z than he got with Biggie Smalls You no tories big which just crazy. Um. We had this song, Seen it All. So it had a Chinese sample from a movie. So it took us, you know, almost a year to get the sample clear. I finally got the sample clear. Me and Jay listened to the record and he says, uh, yeah, we gotta shoot the video for this. We're gonna go down to Miami. Imnacall puff. We had the Jets back to back to back. Then we're gonna go to Live take it over. Then we're gonna take over the Fountain. Blue was gonna be crazy. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm hyped. I'm like, oh, this is it, you know what I mean? Like and man, I don't know what happened. Uh, I got busy, He got busy, and I kind of got off of it. Um and we never shot the video. But I just had to sit back and thinking, like we're sitting on his jet, were on Jay's jet, We're flying somewhere, and he's like, Yo, we're gonna shoot the video jets back to back back, you know what you would call puff. It's gonna be crazy. I'm like, damn. He's like, you're gonna take your found blue and this was like lives like club. Like He's like, we're gonna go to live, shut it down. Get the big, the big I forget what they call the ace spade bottles that's almost the size of a human being. Like, we're gonna get like ten of old. It's gonna be crazy. And uh, every time I think about it, I'm gonna tell this is this is my message to my people out there. I like to get, uh get a message to him every time. Did I do this this podcast? Listen, it's it's about the now. Baby, don't ever wait, don't take your time, be aggressive, be relentless, and don't blink. If you want to do something, say yeah, let's do it tomorrow. I'll tell you what. You know what I'm saying, don't wait till next week, next month, none of that. Man and any time I've done that, it hasn't worked out for me. So just they religious. I'll double down on that and say, think about the last big thing you did before COVID in the lockdowns, and think about it. Might have felt like random at the time. It might have been just brunch with your mom, might have been diner with a friend, might have been bigger, whatever it was. I think how valuable would be now to go no mask, no bs, no way and B And you didn't know. We couldn't have know. This is this is humanity. We didn't know that night was the last Well maybe you heard something coming with this and that, but you know what I mean, like whether it's on a personal scale because we're only but lucky enough to wake up each day, or on a global scale like yeah, you gotta do it. I mean, before I guess, before we wrap up, I'll answer the other question you said. So for me, artists who like are really like that I'm jamming to like holistically, jay Z is definitely one of my number ones. Um, it's funny, I guess if I said the number one's plural, I'm already cheating. But like jay Z is like for me everything you know and I think it's interesting because he's great on understanding how the world works in every way and every life stage. And he he can be political, although I don't think he's think thought of as much as a conscious rapper. He himself is alluded to that. Um. I think when you say yeah, Kendrick, uh most deaf um Andre for just the clever, amazing, mind bending style Kanye I always like because Kanye is just way out of the box. So whether you agree or not, like you're gonna if you put the time in, particularly over how his albums have evolved. He's got almost a fully different wraps out on every album. You know what I mean? Um, But I'll give you like just one example when we think about studying the poetry of it if if you want, I pulled up here, all right, let's do it. Um. You remember most deaf mathematics. This is over twenty years old. So when we talk about when about what can we learn from this poetry? Yo, it's one universal law, but two sides to every story. Three strikes you being for life mandatory. Four MC is murdered in the last four years. I ain't trying to be the fifth. The millennium is here at six million ways to die from the seven deadly thrills. Eight year olds getting found with nine miles is ten pm. Where's your seeds at? What's the deal beyond the hill, puff and crill to keep the belly filled light in the ask with heavy steel sites on the pretty ship In life, young soldiers trying to earn their next stripe. When the average minimum wages five fifteen, you best believe you gotta find new ground to get cream. The white unemployment rate, well, it's more than a nearly triple for black. So front liners got their gun in your back bubble and cracked you all theft and robbery to combat poverty and end up in the global jail economy stiffer, stiffy relations attached to each sentence. Budget cutbacks but increase police presence, and even if you get out of prison, still living joined the other five million under state supervision. This is business. No faces, just lines and statistics from your phone, your zip code to your ss I digits. The system break man, child and women, and the figures two columns for who is and who ain't blank numbers is hardly real and they never have feelings. But you push too hard, even numbers got limits. Why did one straw break the camel's back. Here's the secret, the million of the straws underneath it, it's all mathematics. Wow, bars, bars, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. I want to thank my guest today, man, good friend of mine and always keep it in a hunted and we appreciate everything you do out there, brother, and and and everything you're about and everything you stand for, and you know, keep pushing and supporting the coaching. Man. We see every time you drop those videos you shot one of us out. Everybody like, what what your poetry? What? Most staff like? Anyone listening to go put that on? It's sad. The only thing is the parts of it that are still too relevant today are the parts we all gotta work on. That's what I think, because that was years ago. Um, thank you jeez already. Brother, Hey listen, we're here, Happy new year, and it's always working progress. Ladies and gentlemen, y'all give it up for Ari Melbourne. I'm waiting to get on that new to that new show too, my brother. We're here, man, appreciate you already, appreciate you. Thanks for listening to the recession podcast by jeez A Producing a Black Effect, and Our Heart Radio. 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