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23. Toxic Relationships - Our Experiences ft. Claudia Grenfell-Uijalnd

Published Feb 26, 2022, 5:02 AM

In this episode I bring on Claudia as we discuss our experiences in toxic relationships in our 20’s. This is part one of a two part episode.

Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we discussed some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Welcome back to the podcast everyone, Thank you for joining us again this week. We've got a pretty exciting episode going on today and a very special guest. Welcome Cloudia. Hi Jamma, thanks for having me. Oh that's okay. So how do we know each other before we get into what we're talking about? So so well, we've worked at Boost together. Yeah, when we both lived in Melbourne. Yeah, like five five years ago. Yeah, or five years ago. Yeah, when you were still in high school. Yeah. Oh my god. I was literally such a baby, and you guys really took me under your wing as your manager for a bit. Yeah, I know you were my manager and I used to always steal protein books. Yeah. But listening, I wonder what he's doing right now. I don't know. Hopefully he's happy. I think his Boost juice shut down for Health Code violence. It's most likely, but that's another story. But basically, Carter and I knew each other when I was significantly younger. You were also the age of being younger, but I was a little and newer, a bit older than me. And then I moved to Sydney and we went out for dinner the other night, and as you do, we were like updating each other on literally four years of our lives, and we started talking about our relationships as you do. Um, and one in particular for you yeah, yeah, one of my yeah relationship for a few years ago. Yeah, it wasn't healthy, just like the least. No. Yeah, I was listening to in like genuine shock. Literally, yeah, I was speechless, and I was like, you know what this is like something so prominent, like so common, especially in your twenties, definitely, like we were talking about when you don't have boundaries for yourself yet, you don't really know who you want, you're still discovering dating and everything. But yeah, I also think it's really important because you don't really know what it's like until you get into something, and people don't talk about it enough I think. So I was like, come on board, Yeah, let's talk about toxic abusive relationships in our twenties, especially for like we were saying, we can only really speak to a like a female perspective, and we aren't therapists. No, no, we're not, so obviously we both have degrees in psychology. Yeah, and I just finished my honors in psychology last year. Actually my research was in this kind of area as well. Yeah, should I link your fasis so if if you want to read it, Oh, it's not it's not published. Damn it's so good. I like it. And I was like, oh incredible. Um, but yes, so obviously we're not licensed therapist. Yeah, but yes, I do have an honest degree, Yeah, psychology in this area, in this area. So like I was reading her thesis and I was like, this is like you know, I always try and make the episodes like really kind of research based, and I think, like my I didn't really want to do this episode. I think alone and like not have like someone else who kind of bounce ideas off of or another experience. Definitely. Um, so this just seemed like the perfect guests to have. Yes, so we're going to get into a day talk all about toxic relationships. So we've given you the whole story of how this episode came to be. Um, we were having dinner and we were talking about relationships and Clardia, would you like to kind of give a bit of yeah, like that story into what we were talking about. Yeah, yeah, but I was just telling Jamma. So UM. I moved to Sydney UM in twenty eighteen for UNI. UM. It was my first year of UNI. I was living on campus. UM, so like a whole street of houses that were all UNI students, UM. And the house next door to mine was like had a house of eight UM and there was UM one of the people living in the house. UM. He was an exchange student. And you know, being the house next door, we kind of became friends whatever. UM hung out a bit. UM. I kind of you know, knew what he was like, you know, you kind of tell I think we'll get into that a bit more later. But you know, very charming. UM. We're playing friends. And because I kind of, yeah, I rejected him like pretty like yeah yeah, Like he kind of came on. I was like, no, like I had already he dealt with little experiences of just kind of you know, crappy dating experiences. So I was like, nah, I'm like here to kind of study and have fun. But because he was my friend, or I considered him a friend at the time, UM, you know, I think he invited me out for breakfast one day, just as friends, so I thought, and it kind of conturned I guess more intimate very fast. Um. And I kind of thought because if we were friends and he'd actually tried for a few months at this point to kind of get to know me and everything, like I obviously found him attractive. Um, I was like, sure, maybe this could be a thing, like maybe I judge it too harshly, or maybe because he's actually putting an effort, and yes, he could have that tendencies, but if he really likes me, you know, it kind of was a whole like he's going to abandon being a fun boy for me. Yeah I can change, Yeah, I can be the one you know very much wanting to be that. And so when I kind of had my brain switched kind of to that and very quickly, I was kind of in it and I wanted it and I wanted to be that. Um. And there were lots of things that happened throughout the year. Um, you know, we never made it, but one of the things was never established that we were official. We never wanted to put a label on it. Yeah, you know, so the typical kind of he could still get away with things under the guise of there's no label, we're not official, you're not my girlfriend so much, you know, I considered it in my head. It very much was in my head. I wasn't seeing anyone else, I wasn't interested in anyone else. I was committed like I would be committed in a normal relationship, and that's what I wanted. Yea. But you know, to him it was fun in games. Really to him, I was who knows, who knows what I was to h him, I don't know, I don't know. I probably think he doesn't even know. He sounds like such a Yeah, I still don't know to this day. But that's something you have to accept when you get into this. Um. But so basically he would kind of bring on every month or a couple of months that he went on a Tinder date or he went on other dates with other women, and so every time, um, you know, I would hear that and be like, obviously that's not okay. Yeah, I am taking this seriously and you're not. So I would want to end it. I would want to get out of it. And he had this way of making me feel bad for him. And this is actually something I only realized very recently, I was reading this book that my actually now boyfriend gave me my fringe, my thesis, who's a sweetheart. Yeah, and so there's a good ending. Everyone before you hear all this tragic good ending. I'm in a very healthy relationship now. But yeah, but he gave me anyways, he gave me this book on kind of sociopaths basically, which pretty much what I was dealing with unknowingly at the time. And anyway, I was reading this book and one of the things that really stuck out to me, but I didn't really realize because I still never really fully understood what kept me in it. Like I knew it, I knew how bad it was. And there was a lot of things that happened. There was a lot There was a lot that happened that were that when you told me, I was like downright abusive, unacceptable. Oh my god, make me. I was so angry. I was like yeah, and I only imagine, like yeah, anyhow, and there was a lot of things. That was a lot of things. So every time, and I kind of wandered to myself even years after, like still the question lingered, like how how did he keep getting me back? I was ready. Every single time he said I went on to to date I had sex with this person, Like every time I was like, that is it. We are done, I'm done. I had it all prepared. We would sit down to have a chat and somehow I would end up after that chat not broken up with him, but back with him, yeah, and feeling bad and feeling bad for him. And then so when I read this book, they said that the number one thing they talked to someone who was in jail. He was a known psychopath and was a psychologists talking to him, they said, what do you most want from someone? And what is it that you look for when choosing kind of victims? Almost and they thought they were going to say, like, I want power, I want money, it's kind of control or whatever. He said, I want guilt. I want people to feel guilty, because you know what, when someone feels guilty, when someone feels sad for someone, all other emotions in a normal functioning human brain go, oh my god, it's that powerful and that is something that oh my god, that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what it did. Because my emotions were so this is done, yea, this is done, clear cut, like I'm not stupid, because stupid I knew DWN what was happening. I couldn't understand. And then I read that and I was like, oh my god. And you feel bad for if you feel pity for someone, Yeah, if you feel pity and guilty and kind of you have that sadness or pity for someone, you want to kind of then make it better. And I want you feel bad for them. You think they are actually a nice person. Yeah, so when they get you, when they you know, it was the typical spill of you know, I'm sorry, I'm shit like this was what he kept, you know, saying every time I'll change. It's the typical eye will change, I'll change, I'm sorry. I got to work out my ship, gotta you know, I've got ship to work on, la la lah. But I will do it. You know, you kind of you as a normal person, You think they want to work. Yeah, they do. That's what you would because that's what I would do. You know. Oh, you see they're acknowledging the fact that you want to work and they want to change, and you feel pity for them. You think, oh, what a sad kind of Oh you've had a fucked up charm. Oh you're a bit sad, oh, especially you know he was in a new country by himself. Oh it is that's a pity party, and that's what they want. It's the pity party. Yeah. Well, I was like, it's so funny you said that, because back when I was like nineteen, I was like seeing this person and it's like you said that to me, and I was just like, oh my god, that like the exact same thing. Like he would always like make up this like really tragic reason why I had to come over and see him and like comfort him and like literally like basically like cuddle cuddle him to sleep, and then he'd be like the next morning like oh, hey you can leave now. Yeah exactly, and I'd be like, oh, I really thought that when you feel sad and pity for someone, yeah, it's insane. It's it is. It takes over and it takes and then they're like oh and you feel bad and oh and then the next morning yeah, literally, same thing happened, and it's like, oh, I'll kick you out. Yeah. I once had this time when he was like, oh, something really awful has happened to me, and it was my birthday and I went over to this person's apartment and I was like, it's everything it came and he's like no, and he's like telling me this whole story about something tragic, and I was like, okay, like I don't even care, it's my birthday. Like I just like, I know I should be shitty at you, but like I feel so bad for you. And then he as soon as I have the opportunity to talk, he goes on his phone and he interrupts me and he goes, Oh, someone else is actually coming upstairs. Do you mind just going and waiting in the bathroom. Yeah, Oh my god. And I was like what. He goes like, just go and wait in the bar to him, like, my friend was coming upstairs and it was another girl he was seeing. Yeah, and it was my bad day. And I was sitting in the bathroom and then I just had this realization. I was like, what the fuck You do have those realizations? Yeah, like you're like what the fuck? Yeah, And like one of the what the fuck moments, which really should have been the end of the relationship, but for me, was after this kind of back and forth. If I'm going on tindo dates and I'm going blah, blah blah, but I love you whatever. Bullshit. Um. He had a party at his house, like all his house ms at a party, and he was like to me, oh, I'm going to be late, and I was like, you know, it's your house. Where will you be? He said again going on the Tinder date, which was you know, I'd heard it before, and at this point I was just a bit fed up, and I was like, all my friends are coming to this party. UM, so I just said I'll deal with like this later. But whatever you do, I said. In one thing that you do, do not bring her back to this party. Just don't do it, like you know, my friends are going to be here. I'm there. Yeah, that's like I'm there. Even though it even weren't like that, says would like it was like, oh but my friends. It wasn't even like I'm there. You made this respect person say I know anyway, it was anyway, um, and he was like, what do you think I'm stupid? Like why would I do that? Of course I wouldn't do that. And I was like, well I've done many stupid things these months, like yeah, all right, but he was like adamant, like I would not do that party happens. All my friends were literally sitting in the lounge room in a circle, all around in a circle. He walks in the bit all of us with this girl says hey, just look says hey, like so casually, barely acknowledges me, says hey and go straight upstairs to have sex with her. Um, yeah, I've heard that before, but I still like, what the fuck? Yeah, like this just that was really like I would have hurt so much. Yeah, and obviously that was hurt underneath her, but all that came out was few your anger, so angry because most of the four months I was just sad. I was sad, you know, and every time this happened, on just cry or go to my friends. But this time I fucking cracked. Yeah, and I you know, everyone looked at me in shock, and everyone was kind of like and I didn't know what to do. And my friend, you know, that lived in that same house, was like in a room at the time, who was running next to his room. So I kind of just went upstairs. And obviously shanon't just witnessed what happened. So I went upstairs to tell her in a very you know, angry tone, you know, being like what the fuck, Like he just did this, this and this, like, oh my god. So I was like pacing back and forth kind of just like ranting essentially, and she just sat there like watching this, like very you know, this is fair, and then just like turned to me and was like a little louder. Like his room was right next door. He was in there fucking the chick at the time. Louder, louder. She tell me to go louder. So I started screaming, yes, screaming like fuck you, like fuck your favor, telling me that you love me, fuck you for doing this, fuck you for this, this and this just everything that came about from the past four months for you know, everything. And then I end up kicking in his door and like fuck you, yeah, and then walk downstairs. And at this point a couple of my other friends arrived. Yeah, and they're like hey, you know, and I was like, oh, not in a mood to socialize, whatsoever. What the fuck happened? So I went to the kitchen and signed to explaining it to them. Yeah, and then he comes into the kitchen and so he's facing me and standing behind my friends. I don't see him, Oh, I just see him and they obviously realized that I'm looking at someone else, so they don't see it's him. They all kaud. They just kind of leave us in the kitchen, and I just look at him and I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Said? What the fuck is wrong with you? And all he has to say to that was he looks at me, looks at my top that I was wearing. It was a red top, looks back up at me, a little little smirk on his face, and goes red, looks nice on you, and walks out. That's it. That's it. After just like shattering my world whatever fancasy I'd left of the relationship, but still like yeah, after pretty much disrespecting me, and like, yeah, the biggest way I think anyone can really disrespect Yeah, Like literally you said like, please don't do this, and I literally said, like I didn't even address the fact that he was on a tender date. Ye gods, don't go on that day. I just I wasn't even like, don't go on that date. I was like I'll deal with that later because I was felt up at this point and I was like I just want to have fun, honest, I can't deal with this again, and I just said, don't bring her in. Yeah, just please, if you do it, go elsewhere if you need to, if you need to do go to hers. Yea, honestly, go to hers. And we'd do the whole spill again, said someone and whatever. Yeah, but like that wasn't the end, was no, so you know, it was a start. I did block him and cut him off for a couple of months, which was I think, you know, it's still big to do that at this point. So after that, I, you know, I went back to my house for the rest of the night and didn't engage in it of it, and I did block him on everything and didn't talked to him for two months. And it was good. You know, I actually see well, you know, I seemed fine, and I was fine because there was still a glimmer of hope. And that's the thing, Like, it wasn't. Yes, I cut him off, and yes I blocked him, Yeah, but I knew it was only because I was waiting for him. You know, I still wanted him to come to my house and I'm sorry, begged for me back, but realized what he lost. You know, I cut him off, and I wanted him to realize what he had lost so badly. Yeah, and it never happened. It happens, It never happens. I've done that so many times it never happened. So obviously of two months of being like, I'm fine and cool and getting on with my life, but him never do you know, never apologizing. I ended up one night drunk after a party going back to his and yeah, pretty much starting it again. Yeah. Yeah, And that was like the second chapter. This was a that was the second chapter is yeah, the sequel to it, which essentially was just him saying that he was going to commit to me this time, which I think do you think he did? I don't know, Like at least I didn't know this time, Like at the time before he told me that he was doing these things, and this time I wasn't aware of them, and I was with him a lot more, so I don't think so, But again, who fucking knows. Who fucking knows anyway, But because he wasn't obviously doing it as frequently and we were together a lot more, it was a lot more covert then not so overt and kind of like, oh, I'm just having sex all these women. It was this was when really controlling behaviors came the scary behaviors. I would say it wasn't really scary before. It was like I'm dealing with a really kind of fucked fuck boy. But then it became scary. Yeah, that was when I was like, I'm in an abusive relationship. It wasn't like I was fucking around with this kind of toxic fuck boy from you know, exchange ha ha ha ha first anythings, This was like real and that's when I knew I had to actually find get out. And some of you don't have to talk about it, but it was like, um yeah, so um put downs like insults or insults. I'm very confident in myself as well, and he knew that and so he tried to get to me anyways. You know. He would he pinched my stomach one days, like you to go for a run. I said I was an eight out of ten because my butt could be better like shit like that, you know, which I actually I didn't ever get to me those things because I am really confident and I'm attractive, but you know, he still wanted to do it. It's still horrible. Um what else um oh, behaviors like I wouldn't even know what I do, like you don't use don't there's no logic to it. But he would go for being kind of fine and all right, moved to kind of shutting down, going into his room, not talking to me, the silent treatment, really falling stone walling at last week. Yeah, he did something really horrible to me, um, and he told me not to tell my friends about what he did. And when I was like, you know, fuck you, my life, I do whatever. You know, I told all my friends, yeah, because you would, because I would. And I wasn't, you know that afraid of him, Like I was like, you know, getting there, but I was like, fuck you my friends and relationship with my friends, and they still hadn't really lied to them much about me being with him. They all knew that I was still with him. But when he found out that I told my friends, oh my god, like complete just like nothing like silence. Um. I was like walking in the street with him, like begging him to talk to me like anything. I was like, let's just discuss this, talk through this like a normal people will try to be nothing. Looked at me dead in the face when I was like fucking begging him. The ddle of the street and just kept walking nothing like two days. So manipulative. So just like also the fact that he's like now, like what the fuck. It's like he can do whatever he wants, like he can bring back girls to his house, and like he can like do things to you. But as soon as you like access, I know yours, you stand in your power, that's then it flies off. And there was also like so for instance, this is when I started kind of realizing the kind of personality had as well. He told me that he didn't feel love or hate really, he said he kind of never felt much and kind of operate an autopilot. So he literally was like I don't know how to pretty much. Yeah, And I was like sorry, what yeah, because like before I was really like educated myself. You know this kind of person which is literally they literally even anything, it's just kind of it's only thing essentially. Yeah, So it was shocking to grab my head around, like what do you mean You're on auto pilot and I can't just throw float through the motions of life, like I would never feel love for you pretty much. It was like I can't love you, I never will and I never like feel this, And I was like that's what Yeah, you're like. I was like, what do you mean, Like you have to write you're a person? Yeah, you have to love someone and you have to love something, so I thought, um, and so anyway he never told me, well he actually did, so he was falling in love with me rather start of the relationship. But anyway, yeah, anyway, he was like, you know, I got love for you, but I'm not in love with you, is what he'd say. So and I even just accepted that. I even still just I honestly like accepted that. Great. Yeah, and I was like, oh, brilliant. And then one day, um, he oh, when I had started in mentally kind of preparing to break it off, When I started mentally kind of detaching myself, this point, you were like quite afraid. Yeah, yeah yeah. At this point, this was like a couple months before I did properly ended. I was starting to mentally prepare myself. You know, you really have to do the mental game, preparing the mental game before you actually do it. You have to really start detaching yourself emotionally, which is what I started doing. And God, they can funking sense it really instantly. Really, there's something they can read people and that's why they can read people so well, just any things. In my behavior, I wasn't as affected by what he said. I wasn't really bollowed by his presence so much. I'm just hanging out, and I started being a bit more like my normal self around and not so invested and so worried about what he was doing to me and what he was doing around me. It was very started detaching, and the second I did that, I knew he could sense it, because he then brought me upstairs and told me he loved me, which is what I'd been hoping for for the whole time. Right, Yeah, so me stupidly not stupid. I shouldn't say I'm stupid, but you know, sillily, when I started detaching, it was only like a tiny bit that I started, so when he said that, bounce right back in. Yeah, oh my god, he said he loved me. Oh my god. Finally it worked. I made him love me. Yeah, I made him realize. But obviously, because I'm not stupid, I still to turn around to him and say, you told me three days ago that you cannot love and you will never feel love, so why are you suddenly? And this was literally it was three days before that, Why are you suddenly telling me that you love me now? Yeah? And he looked at me and said watch yourself, and he said, don't push it. Oh my god, Oh my god, don't push it, and then ignored me for three days, literally ignored me for then I love you, Yeah, ignored me nothing. I literally thought he was like dead or something because he just cut it off. Oh my god, And I was like three king Oul was beside myself. I was like, holy fucking shit, like is he okay? Like he haven't heard from him at all, and he's just probably just like oh just so I was so beside myself that my mom and like my friends will like go to his house because even message and then I messaged his housemate being like have you seen him? Like he was like, yeah, he's around, and I was like, right, that's it. I went to his house and like beside myself and he just is like coming back from playing basketball and being like what are you doing? And I was like you, what the fuck? Why you haven't heard from you? Like why are you suddenly like three days? And he was like, oh, I just needed to have some alone time. Yeah, Like yeah, no, And obviously it wasn't because of that. Now I realized it was because I questioned him. And when you question, you know, narsis so so past. What do you want to call them? Yeah, when you question them on their behaviors boom, like yeah, anyway, and then what happened after that? And then you end up? Um, I ended up just getting more and more anxious around him. Really it was more my body, my body's response to him, because I just yeah, it was just a complete shit show, and I ended up just getting anxious. And then I went overseas with my friends for a week kind of just like yeah, obviously reset, I guess my body, you know reset. I had honestly not spent much more than a few days away from him in like a three month period. Yeah, so kind of like yeah, getting myself away from that space and just hanging out with my friends, yeah kind of really just like I was like I could breathe, So everything reset for a little bit. And the moment I went back to him and you know, back from overseas, um, that was it. I freaked, Like my body just freaked out, Like I couldn't be next to him without feeling like I was going to be a panic attack. My anxiety was through the roof. Yeah, Like I just couldn't sit with him. I couldn't be with him, and I thought, you know, initially I was like whoa, like is this me? Like I was just kind of like I can't. I'm so anxious. And so I went and saw a psychologist. Hum and I was like, you know, I'm so anxious around my boyfriend. Don't know what's happening to me. And she was like, okay, like explain kind of just your relationship a little bit. It's been going on. I talked for like a minute or true. Yeah, and she just was like I just could tell she was like a own boy and a professional. Yeah. Man. She just said, look, I have a hypothesis and he's a narcissist. You know, this is a personality disorder. It's not my client, but a hypothesize that he is. And like, so as you, like, we both studied psychology, and like, you don't normally diagnose someone from someone else's assess you die. It's like pretty much just not it's pretty much you don't do it. You're loaded ethics. Yeah, like you can't. So it's like you have to be so pretty fucking like scared for also my well being to actually say something like no, like really clearly because yeah, and normally six I've never had a science since that's been quite so like direct. But she anyway, it's also the situation, I think, She like, you're actually like in danger here, like this person is like jeopardizing your physical and your mental health. Yeah, you are, like it's not good, yeah exactly. So yeah, so she said, you know, I have a hypothesis that he's an arcissist, and she very clearly goes, you have two options in this situation. One, this is your life. You stay with him, and this is your life. He's not going to change except it right now. No change. This is him, this is how it is. You stay, this is your life too. You leave. That's it. There's no in between, there's no in between. This is your life. Or you like yeah, leave, you make a decision and you like leave and that literally I remember you tell you saying that to me, and like the other day and like I was thinking about a situation I'm currently in and I'm like, wow, like either I keep entertaining this person and like just feel awful about myself all the time and like constantly like in a state of anxiety survival basically like oh my god, Like, how can I just want to be with you so much? And you obviously don't even give a shit about me? Yeah, And I was like, either I keep this up or I just like I let it go. And I like you said that to me, and I don't. This relationship obviously isn't like a beautiful it's a little bit a little bit toxic. Yeah, but it's not like to this degree. And yeah, it was like you said that to me and I was like fuck, like wow, like it's my decision, like yeah, like it really puts the control, yeah, because the whole time, the control is not with you. The control's not with you. Everything is with them because you did because they know, like, yeah, this person isn't like this, like not at all. But like I think when you're the one who loves that other person more like you're never gonna be like I want to stop seeing Yeah. Yeah, well because you're not ending it because the lover is gone or kind of just fizzled out, or you're doing different things like you're ending it because it's not health if you and the like and yeah, for the for the stage of life, that you're in either no just e. Well but yeah, yeah, well especially when I had the biggest semester of UNI. Yeah like yeah, yeah, but you did it, you I do so, like yeah, I started breaking away and yeah, I pretty much I started UNI that weekum, and I had a very busy semester coming up, and I knew that, and I just was very anxious and I just had to like put it in. I had to say, like I'm ending this and I had to stick to it and I had to just block him. And that's really like but then he started, yeah showing up at your part. Yeah, sorry, it doesn't it doesn't end there, Like you have to really you have to be so like strong to stick with yourself, I think. And you know, I did go back like once, you know, then you go back a little bit at the start you ended, and then I think it's up together like a couple of times. But it was really my body and the anxiety stopped me. It really was. It wasn't my like mental state one hundred percent, but my body could not handle his presence. My brain was like danger. It was like a fucking alarm going off in my body. And honestly was like I couldn't like the anxiety that I experienced being in the presence and anything else to do with him. It was like so severe that I had to just not see him, like it really was. That was my only choice. So it was good in that sense, like that's when the body really knows. Yeah, I think it's when it's really poured until this into your body, like the biofeedback. Yeah, yeah, obviously it's like that feedback loop everything and yeah. But yeah, but then yeah, obviously because I had obviously tried to end it a lot throughout like this almost year period, he knew that. He knew I'd said this is done and gone back, and so he thought this was just another one of those instances. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'll give you a bit of space and then come on back and we'll have the same chat and we'll go back straight in. But the only thing to calm down my anxiety was completely detached and to try and mentally detached from him. Yeah as well. So he tried to do this big grand gesture like a few weeks after I'd ended it, which is typical. Typical, this is the love bombing. This is love bombing. Everyone bomb probably see it on Instagram a lot. But yeah, it's serious. It's a serious thing that they do to get you back or in or they do it at the start a lot. But also this is at the end. It could happen anytime. But um, so he gave me kind of so throughout our year kind of together. He had sold my twenty first birthday presents. He you know, the things I asked for for Time's which literally one rose he didn't get for me. So he had never got me anything basically, and so all at once he brought me all the kind of gifts and things that I'd requested throughout the year at once, like in my room. It set it up and was like Tatar basically like look what I've done. Ready, ready to take me back? And I just like stood there and I just I couldn't even entertain the idea anymore. I'm freaking freak out. So I was like no, and I was like, you know, I just said to him, sit down, and it was very like sternly it kind of said, this was Nick never what I wanted. Obviously, yes I wanted these gifts, and that's nice. It would have been great, It would be great. It would have been nice, you know, to feel of love. But yeah, when you were doing so much for him. Yeah, but it's not about obviously, it's not about the material items. So I was like, this is not it, this is never, this was never what it was about. This is never this material staff, which is obviously the only thing I can really relate to these people as well. Yeah, a lot of it's material stuff because they don't know anything about their emotions. Yeah, but I like sat down. I was like, all I ever wanted was stability and consistency, simple, healthy, stable, consistent relationship. That's all I ever wanted. It's all ever asked of you. And I was like his face was like perplexed, Like when you said this to me, you were like when you call out, when you when you tell them no, when you just tell them no and you're really you have it's like unemotional as well. They can't understand, like they're really thrown off. And it's kind of in a way kind of funny, like seeing him the first time not in control because their control is back with you. You see, when you take the control back from them and put it within yourself and actually make choices and say no, and you know, they're like what, like what do you mean, Like, yeah, you're saying no to me, Like it's yeah, it's they just don't understand because it's like they never can compute what they really did. It's yeah, weird, but yeah, so I just kind of kept saying no, and you know, he did try a few times. He kept turning from my house. You even tried to break into my house at one point, lie to my housemates saying we're all in contact, saying I was home when I wasn't home, but he will come in, which is the lying and like that people, Yeah, just like trying to get whatever he could to get. I mean, the answer was constantly no, And that's really what you have to do. You just have to break it off. Yeah, and it's really it's easier said than done. Yeah, like yes I did it. I have a bit of a chokehold on you. But yeah, the emotions, but like the first three months that I would say it didn't pretty much there the first three months with the entire first semester of UNI, even though while I was doing Union surviving as a matter, like, my emotions were all over the place. God, it's like going not that I've ever done hard drugs. I'm being a rug, but I would imagine it's like going cold turkey. Yeah it is, though, it is because it's an addiction in the brain, and it's like cutting off, yeah, a source over, Yeah it is. It's cutting off a huge source of Also, like it's cutting off a source of like norphnepherin, and like you're stress and those are like quite addictive to your brain. It's like why people take a lot of risks and why yea do things like that. And so when your brain it's like all of your neurotransperencent hormones have been in this state of heightened arousal and now you're like you're crashing exactly. And because when you're in this situation, your these hormones and your emotions are so tied to the person and what they do to you, Like they will you know, you'll get euphoric. You'll get these amazing euphoric highs when they give you some crumbs of good behavior them they are in a good mood, you will be euphoric and it's amazing. And that's but they something bad and you'll come crashing down like the biggest low. And so It's like when your emotions are so up and down based on this other person and they're being regulated only in this way. When you cut off that source, they have nothing to respond to anymore. They don't have that stimulus. They're trying to still go up, They're trying to still go down. Yeah, but when you don't have that response, and when you're not fighting against something you can only think you're really doing, is just kind of cry and be a mess, Like, yeah, there's nothing to respond to, but they're still wanting to. That's what I had, like, yeah, with this other person where it was like not that. I think one of the disclaimers we wanted to give is like I think two people can be toxic for each other but aren't necessarily bad people. And it doesn't mean that like your experience was any less valid because this person, you know, everyone else thinks they're pretty lovely. But like there's a difference I think between a toxic relationship with one that's abusive and the type of character that Cloudy is talking about, which is like diagnosably sociopathic, narcissistic. Yeah, but I think toxic relationships can happen between any two and my toxic relationship where two people I just do not have this personal yeah, you know, and I still think it's like completely like an experience that is like quite traumatizing. Like yeah, like there was this one person I was like seeing and like it was it was just that anxiety you talk about. It's just so I can just remember it. Yeah, I was just constantly anxious. I was constantly waiting for him to, yeah, you appreciate me and like, and he would say things to me all the time that would just like shoot me down. Yeah, I don't. Like one time he was like, oh, I would never like properly date you because you're not pure enough. Yeah, I think I told you about it told me about and I was like and then but then you know the next day he'd be like, oh my god, like I've had all of these amazing thoughts and I just need to share them with you. And I was like, what the for me, it's the biggest fuck around. Yeah, it's yeah, and it's like I don't think that person is a bad person, but like the trauma of it, like, yeah, well, sometimes this is another thing that I read or got told. I don't know what it was, but sometimes the person doesn't have to be bad, but their behavior is yeah, and that's still what you're responding to. And like, in that situation, that person was young, and yeah, I'm sure they're different now, but like, oh, some of the other things that happened, yeah, that's still inexcusable. Yeah, and still there was a lot of other things where I was like, he was like, don't tell anyone about this, and then yeah, and I was like, well, now I feel like we're accomplices in this thing, but actually I'm the only one if it's like burden By, like yeah, and it was just so and it like it took me, like I'm sure you can speak to this, but like months, yea months. I don't think I got over it until like a couple of years ago. I don't think like with like my experience, it's not something I think I will ever just know. It was so traumatized. It's not something like it's always going to be there now, it's always in some ways, it's been good in some ways. I can detect when I dated since it's like, yeah, very fast when someone's not good. I can detect very fast when a behavior it's just not okay or not right for me or when someone's just not right for me. And but in other ways, like even now I'm like a lovely with someone lovely, very healthy relationship, but anything that kind of the tiniest thing that could be to the contrary. Yeah, and there's like a switch. There's like I will get into get back back into the defensive mode very like easily. So it's something that you're like, it's still going you know, this was three years. Yeah, and it's like it like fully changes the structure. It does when someone treats you that way. It does. And like the other thing, I like, I don't know if you've if you have the same feeling, Like I haven't really gone I think into this as much. But like the thing I sometimes like sit up late at night thinking about is like I let someone treat me that way. That was how I felt like the first year, like that entire year that I had first broke it off. Now I'm like I kind of accepted there was a first apart was accepting that's his personality, that's how he is. I have to go through that. Once I got through that and is ex did that's the kind of person he is? Yeah? Yeah, then the girl goes to you then the kind of anger kind of switches and it goes, what the fuck? And I remember this so vividly. It's so I remember this so vividly because um, there was a part a point where we did talk again for a bit, I unblocked in. We talked again. He invited me out to a concert or whatever. Initially I agree to it, got really really anxious again, and then I like came home like an hour or two before the concert just like started bawling my eyes out, like all the lights off in my room, the blanket over me, lying in my bed, just thinking over and over the like how what am I doing? Like? How did I let someone treat me like this? Why am I still agreeing to this? Why did I agree to this? And being like oh my god, like what's going to happen? If I go like, am I really doing this? Then I was like what am I doing? And I just start myself like thank God? I was like, what the I have a choice here? That's the thing. You didn't feel like, Yeah, I'm like, oh I have to. I said yes, I always gonna be so angry if I stayed. Who cares? I was like, get a grip. Yeah, I like honestly obviously terrile situation. I was like I just had to be like, get a fucking grip. Look at you, Look at what you look at you? All your eyes out in bed with all your lights off. Yeah, like, go to grip. I was went to my mom's that weekend and I was like, why would you lie to your mom and blow off your mom for this man? This person? Yeah, I was like no, sorry. I was like, you know, I've packed up all my things. We went to the train to my mom's. Yeah, and just was like I can't do it, not going, not going Obviously he called angry and I was like, too bad. I don't have too bad. I was like, too fucking bad. But yeah, that was like one of the times I remember a lot of the times, like in the aftermath and just healing, and even now sometimes you know, you still kind of go back and you're like, how the fuck did I let someone treatment? Because like from as well for me, like yeah, like this could happen to anyone. And I've in realizing that like I am, and I've always been very strong, very independent, very confident in myself. Yeah, I've never kind of been anyone who's I'm sure really of themselves or has a lot of insecurities. Yeah, So to kind of be like, what the fuck? How how did I go from kind of the girl in high school rejecting every single man, I mean, like not not interested, fuck you all, to fucking like this to literally being on my knees begging and crying for some person. That's the thing. It's like two ships, yeah, because I find this it's like with my friends and like when I'm out or when I'm like alone, I'm like, wow, I'm genuinely like the best person in the world. Yeah, And I'm like and I like even last night, I was like lying in bed and it's like then you I'm just like, how did I I don't know. We just keep saying this, but I just think about it a lot. But then obviously it's good like learning about yeah, you know, obviously the science behind it, which really well, I think we're gonna go into that in the second part of this episode, which will probably publish on it like two different ones like yeah, so, um yeah, should we go into the science something? Yeah? So yeah, pretty much the question we asked ourselves for a long time, like still, how ye did we end up in this, in this, yeah,

The Psychology of your 20s

A podcast that explains how everything is psychology. Even your 20s. Each Tuesday and Friday we deep 
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