We answer some of your pressing love questions and conundrums alongside some special guests - Jack and Meg!
Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we discuss the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. So today it's a kind of a different episode. I've got some special guests joining me shortly, Meg and Jack, some nearest and dearest friends of mine. What are you going to do? A slightly different episode today, it's a loveline episode. We asked you to send in your love queries, conundrums, problems, questions. With our combined wisdom, we decided to answer some of them, So I really hope you enjoy listening to us spill some wisdom into your headphones or speakers or however you're listening. Also, don't forget to subscribe if you're listening right now, so you know when new episodes get posted. And a really great way to help this podcast grow is to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It really helps the podcast grow. So if you feel cool to leave a review, I'd obviously feel very grateful. But with that being said, I hope you guys enjoy the episode, and if you want us to do more like this, let us know. Meg Meg, the Uniting Force of Meg. It's our first time on the podcast Meg. How are you feeling about I'm a bit nervous. I'm a bit nervous, but I feel like I'm with two podcasts experts now and I really enjoyed your episode, so I'm glad i'd like to join the mix. Yeah. We've been wanting to do this for a while. I think this is a much better idea than the ideas that we had. Yeah, obviously, because it's like we're going to answer people's questions. Yeah, I feel like you two are very good bestowers of wisdom. Oh, thank you. It's a little bit more guided too, I have clearer expectations. Yeah. Yeah. So basically today's episode is a love line episode where I had to kind of explain this to you. That's what this was. So basically I posted on a few platforms and was like sending your love queries and conundrums and then us three twenty year olds people in our twenties is going to provide you expert advice. So if you did send something in like, please keep your expectations low because we're not qualified, we're not experts, we're not expert. Who's in life. That's really wise. Yea thank you mag maybe makes pretty good? Yeah? Pretty Tim first? Yeah, just Tim Joe a podcast, Ben Sapi definitely. I don't know what straight man like that doesn't have a podcast. True, And here I am. I'm trying to diversify this. Yeah, break it up, break it up. Um. So basically, people send it and they're like love things that are going on in their love lives, and we like discuss it and try and provide explanations and advice. And we've got quite a few responses. We got like thirteen fourteen people and we had a little read of them already. Now it's time to get into it. Sounds good. What's what's your love wisdom to start off with? Should we all go around and say our love I don't have much love wisdom? You got a riff off? Okay, riff yeah about that. My favorite piece of love wisdom is live laugh love. Yeah, that's maybe that could be. I thought this was a serious. Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. It is serious. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a white woman, of course. Yeah, but who's lived? Whose laugh? And whose love? Mm? Tack yourself yeah, tag yourself definitely laugh? Yeah yeah, okay, So yeah, you'd be loved Jim. Oh, thanks, and you'll live. Yeah, this is nice. We're getting the tattoos. Throw another one out there, yeah yeah, yeah, and we'll get it on our wrists like our fingers will come together. It joins us. Yeah maybe, but I actually don't think this is a bad idea. Oh yeah, let's let's let's do it with pencil first. Always changed our mind. They give me elect reactions, anything temporary. Maybe that's your love advice, commitment. That's a good start. There we go, well, minds e. Prey Love. Oh yeah, I watched I watched that movie in India when I was finding you. Watched Prey Love, the version with What's It was fantastic. It was the prey part was in India and it was really cool. Oh and I was in nash room when I saw it. Was Yeah, it was really realistic. I had no idea anyway. It was quite cool. Well, Well, now you guys have all summarized it in three words, but I don't think I can. I don't try. I try. Um love love you too, that's love you too, because I feel like that's what you like. Maybe you know you know when you started, when you start a sentence. Yea, when you, when you? When you? When you? Yeah, he love you too, I love you too, love you. It's like reciprical megs. It's like, don't be temporary. Mind's reciprical. Jackson's that he found himself in India and that's why he doesn't need love exactly. Yeah. I'm so happy. Yeah, No, I'm just pretty spiritual. Just getting to myself right now. Yeah, I'm just working on myself. Yeah, that was what I said, literally, Meg before you came in and I was like to Jack, I was like, yeah, this is has been fun, but I really need some time by myself, like desperately. Cliches, but they're true, aren't they. Sometimes you do mean some alone time? Yeah, yeah enough. Yeah. I was going to quote Justin Bieber because he's the king of good marriages as we know, and um, I was going to say, um, you should go and love yourself, and I thing, that's yeah, that's I don't know about that one, Dustin Bieber. It doesn't fit in with me. Yeah, I'm a Taylor Swift stand Okay, of course, what's a quote from Taylor Swift. She's got a lot of my odds so much, Oh my recent lyric that I've been obsessed with two. I'm sorry if you're listening to this and you have no interest to this, but one of them is, Um, you kept me like a secret, but I kept you like an oath. And that's just like, that's really sad and just between us. Did the love affair mame you two? That's pretty cool? Yeah, very tragic, but not really happy to intimate, isn't the songwriting? That's not even the there's like not even the best bit, the juiciest bit. Yeah. Anyhow, my favorite lyrics from the new version of All Too Well Taylor Swift version Jake. Okay, we already got into Taylor Swift in six minutes in we talked about how Jake Jillen Hall is the most hated man in America, in the world. What love advice would you give Jake Jillen Hall right now? Um, o'd be having a tough time if he's not in your relationship to turn this. Imagine imagine getting outed like that, Yeah, for being for doing what he did. Stop finding your girlfriends at high schools. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one for everyone that is in high school. Yeah. Yeah, Jake in particular, but also all human beings. Yeah, unless you are also in high school. Yeah, in which case, grow don't date someone who's not Ben. There's no over circles. It's true. Yeah, that's funny. It's true. Yeah. That was a really good that was really solid advice, and thank you. My advice would be, Um, show up at your girlfriend's twenty first birthday party. Yeah when you said that you were going to go. Yeah, just because yeah, standards standard sand stuff, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, twenty first is coming up, guys. So if my if my future boyfriend, who's listening, yeah, be there, listen, I'll write a hate album about you. Yeah. It was not a hate album. It was a hot so I was like, it was not a hate album. Well, if your boyfriend doesn't show up, I'll do like a full rendition of the moment I knew for you. Yeah, he won't show up to her twenty first birthday party. And if one of us doesn't show up, oh yeah we will, we will. We will because I don't want to. I don't want to deal with the drama that Jake's going through right now. Yeah. Um, so do we want to look at some of the questions that have been sent to us by our lovely friends and sure people that we know. So yeah, sorry, I have my phone, so well how about we use me? Well, I have one percent, so I'm also not going to be that much hues. But Jack's phone is literally right behind him when he says he doesn't, well, yeah, I didn't want to because I'm doing a podcast. I wanted to be in the zone and so I didn't get distracted by messages, so I put it behind me. Oh that's really yeah, but now but no, we can use money. So okay, just a quick thing. So I screenshot at all of them and they're all anonymous because I had a feeling that, like, we obviously know some of the same people. Yeah yeah, and some of them would have been submitting and we would have known it. Yeah, absolutely, So go on, make to choose the first one. I actually, I know this one is kind of a joke, but the question the guy I'm dating is actually nice question mark, is this for real? There's lots of capitalization in it. I think that's a really interesting question to unpack. Actually, because um, Jack, I don't know if you have alternative thoughts on this, but I think there's like a tendency to like, when you expect the worst from people, you have had the worst from people, Yeah, you want to create that situation for yourself, if that makes sense. So like there is actually nothing bad in the situation, but you've created like you are so unwilling to believe that there is anything good that you're going to manifest this like weird bad situation that doesn't actually exist. And I've seen so many people do it now, and I think it's like such a process to actually be like, Okay, well maybe this person is just nice and we can accept that at face value. Yeah. Absolutely. It's like you become comfortable with the idea of like them, of people not treating you well, and then when they don't treat you well, you're like that actually gives me anxiety, yeah, because this is not what I've been accustomed to. Yeah, so it's like really strange. Yeah yeah, yeah, or there's a I think and there can sometimes be a suspicion about it when past experiences have been bad, definitely, And I think that almost leads to you not being a nice person, Like I would say, when you're when you're expecting the worst of somebody, Yeah, and that's what sort of you're internalizing. But you're spending all this time with this person, but you're wanting them to be awful. Yeah, how could you give? Like how could you be the best for them? It's like quite interesting, but it's also about like un learning. I think the big thing here is that like in your twenties, you're going to have like shit relationships with people who are going to treat you badly. Yeah, And I think that what happens is when you meet someone who's actually nice, it's like you have to unlearn all the patterns that allowed you to kind of like survive to that time in which you were like, oh, this is what I deserve. Yeah, and it's like almost adjusting your entire self concept to this new standard of like how you should be treated. Yeah. And it's like so almost like uncomfortable because it also means that you have to sit back and be like, oh my god, the whole time I was being treated really badly, I actually probably didn't deserve that, but I tolerated it. Yeah, And it's like having to sit back with yourself and be like wow, that can be like a really uncomfortable moment. Yeah. Definitely think that create the anxiety around it. Yeah, I think I've been quite lucky. I don't think I've had any relationships where I've been treated badly ending or maybe. But I also I don't even think you have to have had it. I think if you have an anxiety, whether it's been from a previous friendship or you know, like an argument with a parent or whatever, a sibling falling out or whatever, and you have that sort of expectation of people who I care about don't care about me, or and it can just be like I honestly think, like I mean, I'm not a psychologist, you have to because I definitely everything, you know, like a people who are born with particular sort of propensities for I don't know, like anxiety around their social relationships or whatever, Like the act actually accepting Okay, well, this is a person who I care about and they're actually just nice and there's nothing inherently like cooked about them or something that I have to worry about, and just like accepting that could actually be a really big thing. And I think if you don't, then you're just going to be like creating a different relationship in your head the one that actually exists. Yeah, it's quite yeah, like you can't change someone else's behavior, but you can change your expectations. Yeah, and it couldn't be improving your expectations and yeah, actually this is like this new level. Yeah, it's important. Yeah. Yeah. There are nice guys out there. There are yea and nice women and I'm nice not buying people. Yeah, nice people. Yeah, in the world, there are very nice people. Yeah. But it's funny when you meet one and you're like, oh, like like this is what I deserve. Yeah. Yeah, really shocking because it's and it also can leave you like I think a lot of times people have like we're saying this tendency to self sabotage yeah and be like I actually don't deserve this, Like this must be a mistake yeah, yeah, or you're lying or this kind of I'm looking for the thing that's wrong about this, because there must be one, and I don't think that always has to be the case, or even if it is, I don't think it's like, even if it ends up that that person wasn't very nice two years down the track, I don't think you can go that whole two years waiting for that moment to arrive, for something to switch. Yeah, I'm often in that state where I'm like, well, what's not like chop? And sometimes you push them a little bit to be like I'm sick of waiting, like just show me your bad side now so I can get and decide and then we can move on. Yeah. Yeah, kind of sad ideal not ideal. But whoever that person was, obviously I know who it was. But I'm glad that you're happy in your relationship. Yes, yeah. And also you're nice. Doesn't have to be everybody else's nice. I think it's the thing. And this is like a whole other thing, but I think there's a tendency, especially in like a place like Canberra where everyone kind of knows each other and it's a very insular sort of community of twenty something year olds who are like all very connected, to be like, Okay, well this person was really like I really hated them and they're really awful to me and blah blah blah line it just didn't work out. But that person might you might have been awful for each other, and that's like, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be the same thing for another person. And this whole sort of thing of like, oh they were really awful, So like, you know, I can't be with them because they must not be nice. But it's people have different standards and different like metry, and maybe they like that new person a bit more and they're like willing to change their Yeah. Yeah, but I remember, like I don't know if you said this to me or maybe we said it in like a discussion, but it's like, no one like what maybe some I think some people are, but in general, people aren't inherently toxic or bad. They just have friction with each other. Yeah, and it's like, you know, the wrong person for you might act like the perfectly right person for someone else. Yeah, definitely, like huge anyhow, congratulations to this person. It is I'm sure very exciting, very exciting. Um, okay, this is nice. One actually reach out and wants to have a closure chat. But I've fully moved on what should I do? Should I chat with her or just say I'm not interested? What should this person do? You don't owe your ex shit, You owe them nothing, I'm sorry, Like that might be controversial. You don't owe them fucking anything. I think that's I completely agree. I think I think it's like it depends on what you want to get out of the next phase, you know, of the dynamic between you two. I think it's a really really good way to make sure things i'm awkward between you two, and a good way to even have a friendship with them if you want that. Like, I'm good friends with one of my exes from high school, and I'm very happy for that friendship, and I'm glad that we did have that closure chat, which happened quite a while after actually, so it depends a while after being the fact that you guys probably had already moved on. Yeah, both of you. Yeah, yeah, it was it was like a two months or something. Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah, No, it depends on what kind of relationship you want to have with them. But then also it's important I think if you if the relationship is nasty and you don't want to take yourself back to that place, don't do it, because it's gonna be really bad for you. Yes, that's true. I also think you get into an habit of like having repeated closure chats. Yeah, yeah, you have one chat and then it's like, ah, but I have all these unanswered questions. You're probably never This is perhaps we're giving advice to the person who's asking for the closure chat. But it's kind of like you're never actually going to get an answer, Like you just have to move on. Like human behavior is entirely irrational. There's like absolutely no explanation and coherent narrative that's going to explain why your relationship ended. Yeah, and at there's a point where you can get really unhealthy as well, when you like want to ask questions that aren't there and it can just be bad for you. Yeah, I had that. I was like, you know, when you're really hurt, it makes sense that you're like I need an answer, I need an answer, but they're never going to give you an answer, and it just yeah, yeah, number one, you know, you've already decided what you wanted to hear and they're never going to say that. So I would say, don't don't have the closure chat, just be like I don't think it's the right time for us. Give her some chance to like actually heal. And it's Yeah, it sounds like by the fact that this person is asking the question, they probably don't feel like they want to have the chat. Yeah. Well, the whole thing is as well, like there's so many there's many dimensions to this question. Yeah, So I think the first thing is like obviously that there's like inequity in the playing fields, right, because you've got somebody who's like evidently not over or a field that they haven't closed that door, and then someone who feels that they have. Yeah, and then that's where the issues stem from. I think if you're both in the same place about the situation, I think if you're both coming from an equal place of you know, I'm a little bit hot, but I'd like to have this conversation because I'd like to build a friendship with you, or because i'd like to whatever, I think that's fine. Right. Then if it's like you know that you're going to walk into that conversation and be interrogated for answers that you can't give, well, then that's weird. But I think if you did want to do it, I think it would then be really important to set boundaries, like really clear expectations of this is what I want to get out of this, what do you want to get out of this, so that that way there's like an end to those expectations, which is really clinical and like gross, but I think it's like it's one of those things where it's sort of like, Okay, I'm going to have this conversation which is gonna be difficult for me. I you know, Like my favorite one is like, you know, you book somewhere to go afterwards, so like if you're going to be having this difficult conversation, you like, I've got to be somewhere at three thirty, so I have an hour and that way things don't drag on or get unnecessarily weird. It's sort of like that's an end. And if you set out and start what you want to cover in that time, which is really weird. It's like an agenda for like a work meeting. But if you set out what you want to cover and you have to be somewhere, it can't drag on or get we all like, oh we didn't finish, so we have to catch up again. It's like, no, I have an hour. M yeah, that's so yeah, that's actually such solid advice. Thanks. I think the other issue with like closure chats is that often it can mean that that person is actually looking for you to be their emotional support to the breakup, Like because if they're looking to you for the closure chat, yeah, it might just be that they really do need an answer just cheated on them or if something, if you've done it out of the blue, perhaps you do probably owe them an explanation if you can't about this person. But it's also like I need to have this closure chat not because I need answers, but because I actually need you to provide me with some emotional support. Yeah, because it's like you've gone from dating this person then being that you're everything, to going through something that is really hard that naturally you would actually lean on that person for yeah, And so like I definitely I did this in my last relationship where I was like, oh my god, I'm so hurt, but the only person I want to talk about it with is you. Yeah, So like and I think he was probably on the same page. It's like, we'll just talk about it together. And it's well now, like the closure chat has just like meant that we never really truly like moved on or stopped communicating. Yeah, because if someone like ran over you with a car or something and you ended up in hospital, right, very extreme example, but you wouldn't go to them and be like can you sit with me in hospital? Like, yeah, I just need you that Like it makes no sense. It's like if someone has actively really hurt you, why, like, why is it logical for you to be like why do you expect them to hurt you? Yeah? Um, but the person who asked this question, i'd say, probably don't do it, or if you do, take makes advice. It's like clear expectation and have someone to go mutual meeting place? Did you say? No? Not with the person like talk about mutual meeting place is good like coffee, it's weird if they cry? Yeah, you guys are brutally what does she need some tears? I don't know? Can I can? I? Can I ask the next question? Wait from your brain or from the from the thing I don't remember them, go for it? Okay, like if you can ask one as well? If you okay, Oh, he's a really good one. Okay in your ex Oh no, I feel like I want to do that one later. Okay. I'm in a situation ship with this guy who won't commit. What should I do? I think I love him? Oh, I have no advice? Okay, can you can you read it again? Yeah? Let me find I'm in a situationship with this guy who won't commit. What should I do? I think I love him, red flag dump him. Yeah, I think I'm sorry. I have been in so many situation ships. I feel like, see, yeah, I think, yeah, you only want Maybe you're a little bit been in a situation ship, do you not? If yeah, what do you mean? Yeah, so you're not a relationship? A few small ones, yeah, but nothing crazy. But it's it's yeah, it's it's. It's really tough because I think it depends on what the parameters are, and I think the parameters almost always um, hey, I'm not looking to get into a relationship. I don't want to commit um, but the spending time with you sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I think I actually agree. I think that you need to set up really clear boundary about what you're looking for, and if it's not the same thing, they are not going to change their mind. Yeah, they're not going to change their mind. They're not going to If they do, like the situations that I've seen where they do change their mind later, it becomes this constant like resentment of like I didn't want to be in a relationship, and I'm like this relationship because you wanted me to do this, and it's just weird, Like I just yuh, yeah, No, that's a good point. That's a good point. I think. Yeah, I think I think it's important to like, I guess, be open with how you feel, but they're not to pressure them into anything. Yeah, because the boundaries are probably already set. Good. Yeah, that being said, it sounds like they probably already talked about this, maybe have been shut down. Which well, the other thing which I always say, come up is people so like what kind of what you were saying gem about, Like someone like they say they don't want a relationship, but then they kind of indicate that they do, and then they don't, and then they do and then they don't, and then so you get into this situation where you're like, oh, well they will because they said that they might or they said they could, and it's just like sort of and again it builds shake you foundations. Right, just like they don't know what they want. I think it's what you take out of that, and that's not a bad thing. It's genuinely they don't know whether they want a relationship or not. Anything. You know that that's what you want, well, then you have different expectations. So yeah, exactly, And I think if they're not there and they're not on the same page as you, and they don't want to commit into anything. You just like as sad as it is, and like it's you as it will be. You have to get out of that because otherwise you'll you'll be you're trapped in a situation where you're intimate with someone. Do you love that you know it doesn't love you back. Yeah, I feel really I feel really bad for this. Obviously I know who this person is, but I feel because I like, and I'm not trying to be like I feel really bad for you, because I feel like that's weird. But like, I think the other important thing to realize is that like if they wanted to, they would, if they wanted to be in a relationship with you, they would be in a relationship with you. And it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Yeah, totally, they aren't ready, and to be honest, they're going to fucking probably regret it. Like, yeah, if you have this like very beautiful feeling for them, that is like really precious and pure and you have to see the best parts of someone else to feel that way, and they're saying, no, take that and give it to someone who really deserves it. And I bet you, I bet you some good money that in a few months, a few years time, that person's going to still be thinking about you, being like damn, yeah, like that person really cared about me and I just like didn't. I don't. That so sounds a bit toxic. Also, like you know, move on, because you won't find that person that you'll be able to share that love with until you move on from this person ye who clearly doesn't want that, right yeah. Yeah, And it ends up yeah to say, it's sort of like you have to do some like damage control for yourself. And like maybe if you're a person who just gets over those kinds of things really quickly and just moves on with their lives, okay, fair like full steam ahead, like do whatever you want, like live your life like this story inspiration. Yeah, but I think like you have to sort of be like, Okay, well, this person is flip flopping. Even if they do decide that they do want a relationship somewhere down the track. This whole period where like you've been chasing them sets up this weird power dynamic relationship which is just going to persist for the duration of the relationship, and you're just like setting yourself up for a crap situation regardless of whether it grows, if it turns into relationship or not. And that's just really sad. That's so true. It's and it's like there are people who are not like that out there in the world that would be so much better and more lovely and wonderful. Yeah, and would appreciate your Yeah, because you deserve better, yea better yeah. Yeah. And it's although they might not have necessarily done anything wrong, you deserve to be in a better situation. Totally. That's so true. And like, I'm sorry that you're in that situation because I like know what that feels like, and it really really sucks. And you're just sitting there being like is this not enough? And you are enough for the right person? This person obviously isn't the right person. Yeah, well they're frank, Yeah, there's not enough for your expectations are higher than what they want. It's like the exact opposite is they're not meeting your expectation. Yeah, it's like you're actually the one. Yeah, you're so right, Like yeah, it's not like it's not like, oh my god, like I'm not good enough for them. It's like no, like if they're not going to meet and obviously there's not like they're a demon, they're a devil, they're a villain. Like if they've set up clear expectations and somehow you've kind of lost your way a little bit, it is kind of your responsibility to be like, Okay, well they were really open with me about what they wanted. If they were open with if they think, it's a different question if they were gaslighting and ye, which I know you hate the word gaslight. I know, but in the situation it kind of yeah, yeah, you'd be like that. But I hope that's enough. Good luck? Yeah, question? Yeah, I love it. It's so fun. Yeah, were you liking it? What's the next question? The next one we could do? Um? Okay, we got Okay, here we go. This is a friendship one. Yeah, Oh, spice it up. I feel like I've lost a lot of friends and drifted from people during lockdown. I feel like people hate me and don't want to be around me. How do I make new friends? Yeah? Oh, so, okay, I think I think there's kind of it. It feels like a two part It feels like that they're yeah, you feel you feel very disconnected from your current friends and you feel like you've drifted from them, and maybe you feel like you've done something to do that or partly responsible. And then there's how do I make new friends? Yeah, and I think jam is one of the best people I know. I'm making new friends well, so well, I think if you think that people hate you, you probably shouldn't be around them. Yeah. Well, this is what I was going to say, is like, because I think I've had a similar experience with this where I sort of what felt like I lost touch with a lot of people and tried to sort of rekindle those friendships and was like, I feel like these people hate me. And I think if you interrogate that feeling a little bit more and you're like, Okay, well, maybe I actually they don't hate me. Maybe I'm insecure about this friendship because it doesn't feel quite right, and I think sort of like interrogating that a little bit more and like sort of thinking about, well, why is it that I feel this way, and like what is communicating that feeling to me? And sometimes I found like I'm like, you know, I don't know, like to my mom and sort of like, oh, someone sorry hates me, and she's like, why do you think that? And I was like, I don't know, Like I just feel like that today. I'm like, oh, like, well, actually I think that they don't like me because they said this thing that I just really hate or and then I'm like, okay, well I don't I don't want that friendship anymore because you know that whatever they're doing that makes me feel like I hate Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, using as a growth opportunity, like clearly, clearly you didn't value friends enough and maybe your friends didn't value enough to stay connected during lockdown. Yeah. One thing lockdown told me was that I I I figured out who I really want to spend time with during lockdown and use it as an opportunity to be like, well maybe I can have better friends. That sounds kind of to like better friends and let's make some new friends and develop new connections. Yeah. I've set your intentions really clearly with what you want out of your new friends. Yeah, and then go for it. Yeah. And also I'm like, so this is a quote that like Sam, my friend Sam, friend of the show, my beautiful friend Sam and Melbourne, Um, he has said to me before, and it's kind of I've said on the podcast before, like, if you're not losing friends, you're not growing. Yeah, And I do think that's really true, because there was also that saying people in your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime, and I think that it's important to be like, firstly, it might not be that they hate you. It might just be that you are a bit socially anxious because you haven't seen people for a while, and in that case, it's always better just to be like, what's up, let's talk about it. Yeah, And like I never did this, but I wish that I did, So there's my advice. And if they, like Meg was saying, if they're giving you the eco making you feel like you're not appreciated, it's better to be like alone than to be in the company of people who make you feel lonely. Yeah, Like, I really I think that is so port And sometimes you lose friends, and sometimes you lose a lot of friends all at once, and it just means you have so much more opportunity to put yourself in situations where you can make Like I had this where I had like a mass exodus almost and then I just was like, this is like a really good sign that I need to like I've I've changed. These people have changed in their own ways. We haven't changed in the same direction. It's time to find people who suit this part of me now, this new this new version of my life. And I think I think it's like in your twenties, your friends with people who you either work with, who you know from like high school and university, yeah, or who have shared hobbies, experiences, or you live with. Yeah. So I think it's getting getting into a shared experience or a shared hobby. It's a fantastic way to do it. Yeah. So like find your hobby. It's really you'll make some really good friends. Yeah, I do. I do theater. I made some fantastic friends through that, and it's really really special even if your life, you will know them for like a really interesting time. Yeah. And it makes you feel less only it makes you feel sene Yeah. And would you would you say similar things? Yeah? Yeah, definitely. And I think it's like it's good once you start developing those separate circles of friends, because it's also like you're not going to be stoked with every single one of your friends at every single point in time. I think, Yeah, you need Megan our friends in first year, and I was a bit of I was a bit weird in first year. I'm sure. Um, yeah, No. I think the other thing that I will say, though, is that, um, just because you've lost touch during lockdown doesn't inherently mean that you shouldn't be friends with those people anymore, because I think I've certainly done this, Like I like probably when I went home for lockdown last year, I didn't talk to people for like months at the time, and that wasn't a product of, you know, the fact that I didn't want to be friends with those people anymore. It's sort of like there are some people who are really good at texting and staying as touch and face timing, and then there are people who that doesn't quite work for them, or you know, it feels you know, I don't know, and I think that's you know, but you also should try and work on that, I think as something that is The other thing is sort of being like, Okay, well I didn't talk to people for an extended period of time. That's now I'm feeling cramp about that. So next time when this if you know there's a lockdown again, or you go in an overseas holiday, you start a new job or move you. Yeah, that's something to kind of push a little bit more. And I would say that this time during lockdown, I've made you so much. Yeah. Yeah, And I think you sort of you go through it once and you're like, oh, well, you know I could have done x Y zed better and you're like, you know, no, Therese, these really are people. There are friends that I didn't stay in touch with in Lockdown who I really do want to stay in touch with and just reach out just be like yeah, yeah, and if they're good friends, aren't understand right. Yeah. And also I think that people are going through their own ship yeah during lockdown and lockdown, Like I lost my granddad during lockdown and like had other things happen. It was like, it's not a reflection on the people I didn't keep in touch with. It's more of like I'm just overwhelmed. Yeah, and it's like I just can't do the same, Like I don't have as much space and places to go to recharge. Yeah. But mag you did do a much better job. I remember when first Lockdown you hermitted hard. Yeah. Yeah, she really took the order very seriously in and then this lockdown, you were like really good about him. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's sort of being like, okay, well calling people feels a little bit weird for me, so I'm like, okay, well this time I could go and walk so people. Yeah I could. We did FaceTime. Yeah yeah, so like do like you know that sort of thing. I found a lot more fun. So I think it's sort of yeah, it's a learning experience. Yeah, it's kind of cringe. But yeah, yeah, we got another question here. It's actually actually a statement. There's no question involved. My boyfriend likes rock climbing more than me. That's it. Um, yeah, that's it. I think. I think, honey, you've got to be the paper. Yeah, it feels feeling very advice sage. You got to be the paper that beats the rocks. I think you got to you gotta step it up. Oh I gotta know who wrote this job? Is it bad? It's fine? Places this paper rock with him, and if you get paper, he has to stopped going rock Yeah, climb like you know what. Also, it's good that your boyfriend has a hobby. Yeah, it's good that he has a hobby and that it's exercise. True, true, because I play games as a hobby. Yeah, play video games. And then we see you and it's like I'm like, have you been crying? And You're like, no, I've just been playing video It could it could be worse hobby. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I also think men are really bad and just this is a broad generalization. Young men are really bad at like building healthy routines and healthy lifestyles and being like, okay, well when I sit and play video games for eight hours straight, that makes me feel kind of gross and like I never never feel good. You don't. You're quite good with like going to the gym and stuff like that, and it's about your friends. Yeah, yeah, doing a theater and like you know, it's going to work and having like a routine that gives you lots of space to grow and do other names and keep stimulated and you know. And so I feel like a hobby is good. Um yeah, but if he likes rock climbing more than he likes you, yeah, relationships grow over time. Yeah, maybe go rock climbing with him, or at least just hang out with him at the rocks. Yeah. They I mean, you know who it is. Do they go rock climbing together? I can't divulge personal information about Okay, but they don't, so okay, but I feel like maybe also it's okay if you have two separate if you have separate, lie, that's really good. Yeah, true, it's actually yeah, yeah, because you can use that as space to be like, Okay, well I'm going to go and climb rocks and things and think about my feeling. Yeah yeah, and just decompress um and then yeah, spend quality time together. Also, rocks don't have a pulse. Yeah, that's that's important. That's a yeah rocks. Rocks don't have a pulse. Rocks don't have a pulse. You have a pulse. You have writ that on your wall, Yeah, rocks, So there's your affirmation. Yeah, rocks don't have a pulse. I have a pulse. So this is super niche. But it also makes gifting really easy because oh yeah the rock Yeah five this fuckers. There's so much stuff to get around rocky little gloves and things. Yeah, yeah, ropes, I love I love the little pouches with chalk. Yeah, obviously I will face gloves, little shoes, shoes. It's great gifting. Yeah, protein bars when the yeah after after after the rock Rock yeah, or mid rock. Um, there's so much to unpacky and I'm glad we have rock Jack. You're moving through these questions. I mean, I don't know. I just like, what was that conclusion that is? Well, I start started with be the paper to the rock, but what are we ending on? Yeah? I feel like as long as he's not like sleeping on the rocks or like pund yeah, that would be bad for I mean, you know who wrote is it a genuine concern? I think it is, Okay, okay, oh, okay, I think it's simich Okay. Well, yeah, as long as he's not falling around with the rocks, I think I think, yeah, I think boundaries around the rocks about how much he can go rock climbing, yeah, and how much yeah, how much he should be climbing you instead? Yeah yeah, well yeah, because you don't want to get into a stage where he's one of those people that are sleeping with the rocks where they pitch alex Aude. Yeah oh that okay, I'm sorry much. And that's just dangerous. It's danger scary for you when he's doing that. Also, if you think that he likes rocks more than he likes you, you should watch that documentary with that Alex Holland guy where he like, he like has this beautiful girlfriend. He's like, I love you. I want to start a family with you. And he's like, I want to summit the one of the tallest mountains in the world without using a harness. Sorry, baby, if I die, Yeah, and he does it. See that's a bit much, right, Yeah, don't want a different story. Don' want to get to that point where yeah, he's one of those rock people. Yeah, just sound like a get those little rock things and frozen you know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cute. That's what your babies will look like, those little rock things. No, I don't like Yeah, and sorry, sorry for calling you honey at the start. I wasn't trying to be patronizing. I just felt very sage. Yeah, King, thanks, thanks, King, Thanks. I got called king ironically. Un ironically the other day it was quite funny. Yah, just someone. Yeah, it was my favorite thing to be doing. I was telling one of my friends this the other day. My favorite thing is to go on like Instagram lives of like guys doing like who are like DJs and be like we love a short king. Yeah, yeah, I saw it on ticked off and I started doing it. Ye, Like, yeah, Superstar is Superstar or muscles is a classic when you got from from like from like your uncle's when you when you were playing rugby stuff, hanging rugby muscles. I wish that was my experience with us. Yeah, don't worry, muscles, you still got it. Okay, So our next question, it's a really big one. Let's to unpack here. Um sorry this anonymous um question asking human said, my girlfriend and I broke up, but I miss her mom. Pretty sure mom misses me too. Yeah, what do I assume that? I think? I think the starting point I'm going to recommend a song called Stacy's Mom. Yeah, yeah, I think it might be it might be a good text to look at. Yeah, good, good. There's some homework for you, some reading, Yeah yeah. Or if you can't rebuild connections with her mom and like say it, you know, yeah, you know that, that's fine. I would suggest setting your age range higher on tender. Yeah. I think you'll meet plenty of you. Oh, you have a lot of mummy figures to replace the old one. I also think that, like you know, the girlfriend gets the mom and the breakup. Yeah, you don't get clear. Yeah, yeah, so mom, Yeah it is at the end of the day, she did love you as much as she loved her daughter. So yeah, at the end of the day, it is it is her mum and that's that's finale. But if you need the mouth energy, yeah, just because there's plenty of mums out there. There's plenty of mum's out there that you know, Yeah, that have daughters that you didn't go out with, or have sons you can go out with. Yeah, and I think channel that hone into that. Yeah, you don't need to stop projecting, babe. Yeah, you need to chill. Also, does her mum miss you? Probably not, so maybe you need to do I think, yeah, yeah, Well you can just find a new girlfriend who mothers you. Yeah, that's a hot tip. That's true. That's true. Yeah, find find a girlfriend with mother. But I'm such a mother e girlfriend too. Yeah. I was going to say, we can't talk, we can't say ship the queen my mother, even the guys I'm not in a relationship with. It's ridiculous. I'm teaching someone how to fucking drive right now. What was more mummy energy than that? That's very mummy energy. Yeah, that exceeds my mum. Yeah, I've never been that fatherlym when you called the question ask a honey before, Yeah, that was that was your peak fatherly. I've been told be a good dad. You would be such a good dad. I love to be a dad. Oh you would be so much fun. Yeah, kids be there like not their dad, but like god. Okay, okay god father. For any pod listeners who are looking who we're missing their ex's dad, you have feel free to give advice or play Lego. I love with the kids. I just love playing with my little cousins and the kids there so fun to hang out with. And I wanted keen to do all the kid things that I did when I was a kid. When Ye, that's the only reason you when I yeah, introducing them to all this cool stuff like Star Wars. Yeah, I know you're going to say star Yeah, Lego and like Batman video game, the Marble movies. I'm so kane. That would be really fun. Meg do you want little leggies? Yeah? Sont meg lingsglings loved tiny running down like a leaden leg like shrunk. That's the most terrifying thing ever. Well like, but I was like a kind of cute kid. I feel like, oh my god, you're so over the face with Yeah, so the computer pictures the funniest one. You guys, I'm working every day, I'm depressed. Was like it's like every day we're hustling, or like it's about staying hungry. That was Nag when she was a kid, And oh my god, what was like me organized saying an entire like performs with tickets for me to sing I'm a Barbie girl, Like children, did you did you do this? Because I did, like did you do little plays performances? Yeah? But I took it to the next level, like I left my prep classroom and invited the whole school. I made tickets and invited the whole school to my performance about a Barbie Girl. And then like two classrooms full of kids, and my prep teacher was like, why are all these people here? And I commissioned my entire class, and they made all of the guys that I hated in my class dress up as photographers pretend to be like my paparazzi came to pick me up from prep, and I think my teacher was like, you have raised a psychopo like this child psychic talent. Talent was questionable organizations, and they have carried you here. Yeah, continue to use those in your daily life now, yeah, because I feel like you would have done the same and maybe even knew Jema. But I was having a conversation with my mum this week when I was in Sydney about when I used to put on little performances when I was like magic shows and I used to do a little like act out little scenes from like like movies. I like, yeah, did you do that? Yeah? So I would commission performances with my brother as well. Yeah, and love commission Yeah, I did him. I would organized out him. I think my parents were probably sick of them, they were having so frequently. But my dad also would record like songs and I singing with all his like sound recording. Yeah, so we have Hayden and I are singing love Shack like you know, like five something student like that. It's so funny because we do all of the parts, it's like and it's on a full like recording. Baby. Yeah, my favorite is that coming out with twenty first. I would be surprised if you didn't. If she's listening with mum and dad, do you know give us the goods. I want to see the love shack ten minutes in the bolts. Yeah, you don't get it, Taylor. Sorry to exclude you again. That's all right. I used to do your Well. There's photo of me doing a fake wedding where I married my dog. You know that that dog I have, toy dog I still have in my bed. Wasn't a real dog. No it was. It was a toy dog. It was not weird. Yeah, it still was a little bit weird. And I made my grandma. I made my grandma make me a full, like child sized wedding gown. Wow, I'm like a veil to a photo. Yeah, I'll show you. I'll find it for you. And then she also made my dog. Funnily enough, it was like a bit of a lesbian wedding with the dog because um, the dog was also wearing well maybe I shouldn't be presumptuous, but the dog was also wearing a dress and a veil. So there was two brides, one of us was a dog, in one of which was me. So technically I think very progressive, thank you, thank you. I was very progressive child. I was a very progressive child bride. I feel like we can forgive child Brian's if if it's like yeah, and marrying children, if it's like LGBTQ friends, that was such an yeah. Yeah, that's a good moment. It really was a good moment. I've been an ally since day dot. Yeah, I'm gonna put it everyone from Prime Minister and I'm gonna need to get like some brownie points that yeah, hic policy. Yeah, go to the parades, even bring your bring my lover. Yeah, Napoleon the Dog. I feel like it's very parks in Reck, like, oh my god, the Penguin. I forgot about that episode the Penguins. Yeah, yeah, and cause that was quite funny course of st Yeah with that, what's that the uptight lady who's married. I'm such a Leslie note. I oh you so are like yeah, yeah with with with better social skills, we hope. Do you think I'm Anne Perkins or I'm my Tammy? You're in, Yeah, you're in. I don't think I'm an I think and it is a little bit not Tammy. No one's yeah, no one's as fad as everyone's a little bit. Maybe I'm Diane, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're like I'm sorry I'm going to say, like a huge smart Andy energy. Yeah, you're totally I like that though. He's got really nice Yeah, I can see that, maybe a bit of Chris and He's and he's lovely. Be happy for that. It'd be a really good Andy. And and he wants to be a dad like you. True and Andy's child at heart like you. Yeah, that's so sad. Track Oh did Yeah, No, it's all about the So we do one final question? Yeah, well we have one final question. Okay, we don't have one final question about this one. So I've been sleeping with this girl for a couple of months doing that? Yeah, of course not. We're not doing that, so Jack, I don't want to answer that question. Well we can. I'm not doing that, Okay, so you can. Sorry that sounded very aggressive. I didn't mean to be s aggressive. First five. Yeah, in your expert opinion, should we stay friends with our exes? Oh? Yeah, I think I think so. Um, Actually it really depends on the nature of the relationship, like yeah, yeah, it like like I think that that is almost the condition of if you can be friends or not you're friends with your one of your exes. I'm yeah, I've got a spectrum. I'm friends with one of my exes, I am on good terms with another, and then I don't speak to one of my other exes. I'm trying to fill the banks. Huh does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, it does make sense. Yeah. Yeah, what about you, I've I've got a two extreme spectrum. I've got to never look at me. If you come within five feet of me, might try and throw you off something large. I've got another extreme of like we get along fine and yea, yeah, would be happy to hang out like I yeah, have no issues like good pals. Yeah, no beef because because I think I think like fundamentally and it's something I like. I remember getting coffee with my most recent X after we broke up and be like, oh wow, like I really I missed her company a lot. We really go along well. And I think the reason why xs can be friends is because there's such a good baseline friendship there and banta that note like you'll definitely get along with them. Um, it's just like if it was a shit relationship yeah yeah, and or it was about anything, or if you still have feelings for them, yeah, then you cannot be friends with them. I have this I'm either like I until my most an X, I was like, when I finished something with someone I was seeing, I'm like, I do not speak to me anymore. Yeah, I don't like you. I don't want any part of you in my life. In some ways, I do a bit of back and forth. But that sucks. But I actually think that that's a really good baseline to have, right because I think if you're two naive about it and you're like, I mean to be friends with everyone who I've broken up with, it's like, okay, well, yeah, maybe really re evaluate that. Yeah. Yeah. It's also like the nature of the relationship doesn't have to like, at least in my case, doesn't impact whether or not I'm friends with them. I think, like the worst breakup I had, like I'm still friends with that person out of the three relationships I've had. Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, which which is nice. I'm still I would say I went through a period with my most recent accent, like I don't feel we're talking about this because we've talked about it, where I was like, went through this period of being like I really do not like you. I like you are a terrible person, don't speak to me anymore. But then when the time passes, you're like, oh, actually, like we all make mistakes, and you can become very good friends with them, but you have to be careful. You have to care for with it because you don't want to become reliant on them promotional support again, the way that you would have if you were an elationship. Yeah, they are just another friend. Like, I think it also matters the position that you were in prior to the relationship, because I think the trap that a lot of people fall into is they were really good friends before they started dating. Then they started dating, and there was a whole thing when they started dating about oh, they didn't want to lose their friendship, et cetera, et cetera. And then they break up and they try and revert to that immediately and it always goes badly, and it happens to so many people. I don't Yeah, yeah, it's also like I totally get why, but also that's such a factor. And then I think the other key thing is time, right, yea time. Time's definitely the biggest one. Yeah, you're not going to be besties the next day, and if you're trying to be Yeah, there was a two year out between when I last spoke to one of my exes and the friends yeah, wow, actually yeah, and it's like yeah, and she just popped up and was like, want to want to grab coffee? Yeah. I think that is actually makes an excellent point. You need to have had enough time to like with Jack and his lady old lady friends, not old lady friends, no mummy mummy connecting with that last question, yeah really, but like you need you need have had enough time to have been able to settle your resentments and to also have let feelings lessened. Yeah, because if you still have feelings for them, you're going to want from them what you wanted from them when you were in a relationship. Yeah, and it's not going to work. But then I do think in the long time you can be friends of the exodes. I totally see myself being friends with my ex now, like, yeah, because we were such good friends when we were dating and now that things have been fixed, yeah, we can just move. I don't know, maybe I'm saying this and this is like in three months, we'll be listening back. But it depends. It just depends if you want to have a friendship with them. Yeah, Yeah, don't have to yeah, the other things. If you can't be if you can't be freaked and you have too many friends already, don't do it. Yeah, because my whole thing is like I don't like the feeling of being like I had this friendship with this person, I had this like you, we really got along, and then now we're on ey terms. Like that doesn't sit well with me. But I think I could definitely do the whole like we're not in bad terms, were not in good terms. We just exist. I think it's just for me, the ikeyness. I just I don't think I could cope with, Like I feel like I'd have to sort of feel like things were at least really old. Yeah, I think right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the block. Your block Yeah, oh yeah, You're block really doesn't unfollowed, So yeah, I like the unfollowed too. Yeah. Yeah, I just anyone I've been in a romantic relationship or anything with, I'm always like, I just cannot interact with you for at least a while, But then with time, time heals everything, and then you can be the same way as them, and then it's fun to stop them on social media. Yeah, yeah, they've got Yeah, Yeah, all the people i've previously like dated or like to have all gotten really ugly. Yeah. See sorry if you're listening, but it's true. Yeah. Well I think it's also just the thing if you're not attracted to them anymore. Well that's troubly, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they probably point out the obvious also, and that was a joke, like they haven't all gotten they're still very nice people. So yeah, anyhow, we did some great We covered some ground. We covered some ground really and also aren't we like three really wise people? Yeah, quite cool. Three wise mice, three wise mice, ye wise three blind mine Yeah, three wise mice is cooler. We had a cheeseboard, it would be yeah wise mice. We had the fattest feed before this though, So we did yeah tofu out of ten eleven. Wow, it's pretty good. I had some mixed. It was really nice. I think I had half of it. Thank you much, Bread anyhow, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thanks thanks for stopping in and asking questions. Yeah, how was your first podcast experience? I really I really enjoyed it. I definitely couldn't do this by myself like I would be It's a lot harder about yourself. Yeah, yeah, I could drink the chats. Yeah, well, me too. This was really intrigued Jackson. Now he's good, his master's he's done a Yeah, because the first one I went on, I was pretty nervous. But yeah, I think having appear in person was a lot better because we did it over the phone the first time. Yeah, you did really good though. It got really good feedback. Oh yeah, you were. You guys were really good to listen to. Yeah, And I think it was because I knew so many of the stories as well that like or like i'd heard of them and like hearing you guys interact and talk about them was really sweet. Well, now maybe you got to make your debut. And I hope if you sent him a question. There was like maybe three or four that we didn't answer because they were just like a bit miss or not really questions. But if you did send it a question, I hope we answered it. Well. I hope we didn't offend you. I hope that you got some solid advice. Yeah. And also to I just want to do a quick shout out to the person who's in a situation ship. Yeah, yeah, true, true Europe. I don't know if it's a girl or a guy. But I think that I think that's important to mention though, Yeah, because like I'm feeling for you right now. Yeah, and you deserve a lot. Yeah yeah to all those people, you all deserve a lot. Rock climb yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. It was a girl, boy, it was a girl. Lonely, lonely person. Oh that was Thanks again for listening. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you subscribe to this podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Meg, where can we get this podcast? Spotify, couple of music Spotify that that was really beautiful. Um, and follow us on Instagram as well. It's twenty twenties Psycho twenties podcast. I don't even know my own Instagram handle. And um. Thanks for listening, and thanks to Jack and Meg again for joining us. And we'll see you yeah, see you guys next week. Bye,