I actually tell my clients to stop and to swallow when they feel fulfilled and let their cells in their body recognize and digest what this moment of meaning is, because then you start to compound moments of meaning viscerally, and your body starts to learn what enough feels like.

I actually tell my clients to stop and to swallow when they feel fulfilled and let their cells in their body recognize and digest what this moment of meaning is, because then you start to compound moments of meaning viscerally, and your body starts to learn what enough feels like.

Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, assistant, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.

Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think, ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't have instead of what we do. We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, assistant, and creative effort to make a life worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their good wolf.

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself what does enough actually feel like? Not as an idea, not as a number in your bank account, but as a moment, a deep embodied sense of satisfaction in today's episode, Elizabeth Husserle, author of the Power of Enough, Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money, helps us explore this powerful question and why most of us are stuck on what she calls the scarcity hamster wheel. We'll dig into how defining your enough can transform your relationship with money, time, and even yourself. Elizabeth shares tools for creating more fulfillment and talks about the discipline and joy of truly savoring what you have. All also reflect on my own struggles with money, a topic I usually avoid, but maybe that's the point. By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with practical ideas for finding more balance in a world that constantly tells us we're not enough. I'm Eric Zimmer and this is the one you feed. It's time to feed the good wolf. Hi, Elizabeth, Welcome to the show.

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself what does enough actually feel like? Not as an idea, not as a number in your bank account, but as a moment, a deep embodied sense of satisfaction in today's episode, Elizabeth Husserle, author of the Power of Enough, Finding Joy in Your Relationship with Money, helps us explore this powerful question and why most of us are stuck on what she calls the scarcity hamster wheel. We'll dig into how defining your enough can transform your relationship with money, time, and even yourself. Elizabeth shares tools for creating more fulfillment and talks about the discipline and joy of truly savoring what you have. All also reflect on my own struggles with money, a topic I usually avoid, but maybe that's the point. By the end of this episode, you'll walk away with practical ideas for finding more balance in a world that constantly tells us we're not enough. I'm Eric Zimmer and this is the one you feed. It's time to feed the good wolf. Hi, Elizabeth, Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Eric for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Thank you so much, Eric for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk with you about your book, The Power of Enough, Finding Joy in your Relationship with Money. This is not a topic we have covered very often on this show, and yet I've begun to think about how central its importance is to every person's life. Whether we want to admit that or not. It's a pretty big area of thought. We spend a fair amount of time on it in our emotional energy. So we'll get into all that in a second, but we'll start the way we always do with the parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent talking to their grandchild and the same life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the.

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk with you about your book, The Power of Enough, Finding Joy in your Relationship with Money. This is not a topic we have covered very often on this show, and yet I've begun to think about how central its importance is to every person's life. Whether we want to admit that or not. It's a pretty big area of thought. We spend a fair amount of time on it in our emotional energy. So we'll get into all that in a second, but we'll start the way we always do with the parable. In the parable, there's a grandparent talking to their grandchild and the same life, there are two wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the other's a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it for a second. They look up at their grandparent and they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking you what that parable means to you in your life and in the.

Work that you do.

Work that you do.

Thank you, Eric, I've loved sitting with that parable, and I would say the initial message is clear, right, whatever wolf you feed or you give your attention to, that's what amplifies in your life. But as I sat with it deeper, for me, it's less about good and evil.

Thank you, Eric, I've loved sitting with that parable, and I would say the initial message is clear, right, whatever wolf you feed or you give your attention to, that's what amplifies in your life. But as I sat with it deeper, for me, it's less about good and evil.

Or black and white.

Or black and white.

But in my work it's really around the light in the shadow, right, So what are those light qualities that potentially can bring out our more purest essence? And then what are the shadow qualities that potentially trip us up or you know, dim our essence. And I feel really fortunate that in my life I've had teachers who've.

But in my work it's really around the light in the shadow, right, So what are those light qualities that potentially can bring out our more purest essence? And then what are the shadow qualities that potentially trip us up or you know, dim our essence. And I feel really fortunate that in my life I've had teachers who've.

Helped me find the wisdom in both.

Helped me find the wisdom in both.

Right, It's like in the shadows sometimes we have some of our unmet potential, right that we have to go digging to find the compost or the nuggets of gold in the fertile ground. And in our light we have some of those qualities that we can use to shine towards the shadow and the darkness to be able to reveal some hidden opportunity.

Right, It's like in the shadows sometimes we have some of our unmet potential, right that we have to go digging to find the compost or the nuggets of gold in the fertile ground. And in our light we have some of those qualities that we can use to shine towards the shadow and the darkness to be able to reveal some hidden opportunity.

So for me, it is the ying and yang.

So for me, it is the ying and yang.

Right, It's like, how do these do qualities interact with each other? But ultimately, as we strengthen those positive qualities in our lives, and that's why I wrote the book, how can we strengthen our experience of enough right to counteract scarcity? Right? If I were to think of what are the two wolves in my world, it's enough in scarcity. I think it's more contemporary to say abundance or scarcity, and we'll talk about why.

Right, It's like, how do these do qualities interact with each other? But ultimately, as we strengthen those positive qualities in our lives, and that's why I wrote the book, how can we strengthen our experience of enough right to counteract scarcity? Right? If I were to think of what are the two wolves in my world, it's enough in scarcity. I think it's more contemporary to say abundance or scarcity, and we'll talk about why.

I think that's a little bit of a fallacy.

I think that's a little bit of a fallacy.

But it's more, how do we really deepen into the strength of the wolf that knows their light, they're enoughness, they're worth, so that they find the courage to so almost like take that other wolf under their arm, to create more of a den and realize there is potentiality if the two of them also understand who they are and can work together.

But it's more, how do we really deepen into the strength of the wolf that knows their light, they're enoughness, they're worth, so that they find the courage to so almost like take that other wolf under their arm, to create more of a den and realize there is potentiality if the two of them also understand who they are and can work together.

I love it.

I love it.

I don't think anybody has ever used the word den. In all these interviews, nobody's referenced the wolf den. I may be wrong about that, but yeah, I can't remember anyone ever saying that. So that's great, the wolf den. Let's start with something that you say in the book, and you say, for decades, I've been exploring an essential question, why do we have so much and yet feel so poor? Talk to me about the we have so much side of that, because some people might go, no, we don't, I don't, So talk to me about what perspective, yeah you come from that says you know we have so much?

I don't think anybody has ever used the word den. In all these interviews, nobody's referenced the wolf den. I may be wrong about that, but yeah, I can't remember anyone ever saying that. So that's great, the wolf den. Let's start with something that you say in the book, and you say, for decades, I've been exploring an essential question, why do we have so much and yet feel so poor? Talk to me about the we have so much side of that, because some people might go, no, we don't, I don't, So talk to me about what perspective, yeah you come from that says you know we have so much?

Well, I think it's both.

Well, I think it's both.

I think it's theoretical and it's also lived experience. I think theoretically speaking, right, if we look at the US economy, there is so much resource, right, is it being properly allocated or is it concentrated and some people versus others?

I think it's theoretical and it's also lived experience. I think theoretically speaking, right, if we look at the US economy, there is so much resource, right, is it being properly allocated or is it concentrated and some people versus others?

Yes, But as an economy there's so much.

Yes, But as an economy there's so much.

Resource, and yet we're still stuck on this hamster wheel of more and more and more. And in fact, Eric, I feel like if we were to start to practice the power of enough, we would be grasping less and probably reallocating better, so that the resources that this country has as a whole would be better allocated, because in reality, there is enough for everyone to have what they need. So I think theoretically that's the concept, right, And that's kind of what a lot of the economists that you know, we're studying the nineteen fifties into two thousand, like we make enough as a country and our GDP, why are we still chasing abundance?

Resource, and yet we're still stuck on this hamster wheel of more and more and more. And in fact, Eric, I feel like if we were to start to practice the power of enough, we would be grasping less and probably reallocating better, so that the resources that this country has as a whole would be better allocated, because in reality, there is enough for everyone to have what they need. So I think theoretically that's the concept, right, And that's kind of what a lot of the economists that you know, we're studying the nineteen fifties into two thousand, like we make enough as a country and our GDP, why are we still chasing abundance?

Right? So that's one level I think personally.

Right? So that's one level I think personally.

You know, I was raised with two working parents, and so generally speaking, my needs were taken care of. Like my dad was a doctor W two, there was a consistent paycheck, My school was taken care of.

You know, I was raised with two working parents, and so generally speaking, my needs were taken care of. Like my dad was a doctor W two, there was a consistent paycheck, My school was taken care of.

You know, I was closed. We would go visit my.

You know, I was closed. We would go visit my.

Family who's in Colombia, but there is still a sense of scarcity in my household.

Family who's in Colombia, but there is still a sense of scarcity in my household.

I was like, what is that about?

I was like, what is that about?

Right, it's not matching up where there is enough, but there's scarcity, there's tension, emotional tension.

Right, it's not matching up where there is enough, but there's scarcity, there's tension, emotional tension.

Right.

Right.

My parents were dealing with their own stuff that we can talk about, but I remember just that discrepancy. And I think, in reality, Eric, part of why I wrote the book is that I'm not alone in that experience.

My parents were dealing with their own stuff that we can talk about, but I remember just that discrepancy. And I think, in reality, Eric, part of why I wrote the book is that I'm not alone in that experience.

Right.

Right.

We have financial DNA that takes the past of our lineage, our ancestors, what they've experienced. We feel it in our bodies viscerally, we don't digest it, and we continue to operate from that place without stopping and saying what really is enough? I think that's what prompted me to write the book, was like, this isn't lining up. And if it's not lining up for me, I bet you it's not lining up for other people.

We have financial DNA that takes the past of our lineage, our ancestors, what they've experienced. We feel it in our bodies viscerally, we don't digest it, and we continue to operate from that place without stopping and saying what really is enough? I think that's what prompted me to write the book, was like, this isn't lining up. And if it's not lining up for me, I bet you it's not lining up for other people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean it's really interesting if you look at where we sit in the US, and let's just take most people, not people who are in abject poverty, but most people. We have more than humans have ever had. Yeah, we have more convenience, we have more comfort, we have more safety from those measures, it's the best time to be alive. I mean, I just spent some time in Europe and I study a lot of the history, and I go to the museums and you just kind of look around and you're like, that would not have been a good time to live. And I'm glad I wasn't born then, and let's avoid the black death time. Like we do have a lot. Yeah, and yet, as you say, none of us feel like we do. What do you think is contributing to that?

I mean it's really interesting if you look at where we sit in the US, and let's just take most people, not people who are in abject poverty, but most people. We have more than humans have ever had. Yeah, we have more convenience, we have more comfort, we have more safety from those measures, it's the best time to be alive. I mean, I just spent some time in Europe and I study a lot of the history, and I go to the museums and you just kind of look around and you're like, that would not have been a good time to live. And I'm glad I wasn't born then, and let's avoid the black death time. Like we do have a lot. Yeah, and yet, as you say, none of us feel like we do. What do you think is contributing to that?

Well?

Well?

So, Eric, I mean, I'll reference one of your recent podcasts with Anders Hansen. Right, It's like you all were talking about this conversation of how we're wired both in our brains, but I also think that we're wired in our bodies to be seeking more, and so I think that's just an important kind of starting point, is.

So, Eric, I mean, I'll reference one of your recent podcasts with Anders Hansen. Right, It's like you all were talking about this conversation of how we're wired both in our brains, but I also think that we're wired in our bodies to be seeking more, and so I think that's just an important kind of starting point, is.

Like, Okay, how am I wired?

Like, Okay, how am I wired?

Right?

Right?

How do I build different behaviors?

How do I build different behaviors?

And so it's similar in the book I talk about that the scarcity brain, Right, I use similar examples where we're craving higher calorie foods because that's what our ancestors did, and so the craving muscle is.

And so it's similar in the book I talk about that the scarcity brain, Right, I use similar examples where we're craving higher calorie foods because that's what our ancestors did, and so the craving muscle is.

Just part of our being human.

Just part of our being human.

Kind of reality as human exactly that we need to deal with. And so part of what I did in the book is it's theoretical, but it's equally part practical, because I wanted to give people really tangible tools to be able to work with their desires and cravings and situate it within a bigger context of let's redefine.

Kind of reality as human exactly that we need to deal with. And so part of what I did in the book is it's theoretical, but it's equally part practical, because I wanted to give people really tangible tools to be able to work with their desires and cravings and situate it within a bigger context of let's redefine.

What wealth is.

What wealth is.

Right, It's not just about having money. Wealth is connected to well being. So if we put the wealth in a more expansive way and talk about our human needs and how do we satisfy our human needs and how do we do that in monetary and non monetary ways. We don't make our desires bad. We just are wired to desire. Right, That's actually a good mantra. We're wired to desire, So let's not fight it, but let's be more conscious and aware of how are we satisfying those desires because it can have impact on our own lives and impact more globally. I mean, I just want to say one thing about the US kind of like, we have enough resources generally speaking, right, it is our responsibility to figure this out, ye, you know, And that's a big piece of my push is that it's.

Right, It's not just about having money. Wealth is connected to well being. So if we put the wealth in a more expansive way and talk about our human needs and how do we satisfy our human needs and how do we do that in monetary and non monetary ways. We don't make our desires bad. We just are wired to desire. Right, That's actually a good mantra. We're wired to desire, So let's not fight it, but let's be more conscious and aware of how are we satisfying those desires because it can have impact on our own lives and impact more globally. I mean, I just want to say one thing about the US kind of like, we have enough resources generally speaking, right, it is our responsibility to figure this out, ye, you know, And that's a big piece of my push is that it's.

Our responsibility to figure out our own.

Our responsibility to figure out our own.

Relationship to money, and people kind of like scoff at that, They're like, what do you mean it's so much easier to escape goat money and blame it for I have too little, I have too much, You're too complicated. But no, it's our responsibility to figure it out so that we can be more conscious of how we just manage resources, not just for ourselves but for the greater world.

Relationship to money, and people kind of like scoff at that, They're like, what do you mean it's so much easier to escape goat money and blame it for I have too little, I have too much, You're too complicated. But no, it's our responsibility to figure it out so that we can be more conscious of how we just manage resources, not just for ourselves but for the greater world.

Yeah. I love that idea of desire because I always see like extremes happening, and on one extreme there's I just let my desires drive me and they just sort of carry me along, and I think that's where a lot a lot of people are. On the flip side, though, you start to venture into spiritual circles, particularly Eastern spiritual circles, and you start hearing, you know, the Buddha's Second Noble Truth that craving desire is part of what causes us to suffer as humans. So at that point then we go, oh, it would be great not to have desire, And I think that that's an impossibility for the reasons that you've talked about. I don't think there's any way to turn that thing off. So I love what you say. I think the question becomes how to relate to it wisely and how do we use the energy that it has, because that is where a lot of energy comes from. Exactly, a lot of energy comes from going and getting what I want. How do we align that and to your point, how do we turn off the never enough mentality? Right? Because that's part of the problem is that any of us can probably look at our lives. I certainly can and be like, there was a time where I thought if I made X amount of money, I would be set. Oh great, good, I made that amount. Okay, well now it needs to be x and.

Yeah. I love that idea of desire because I always see like extremes happening, and on one extreme there's I just let my desires drive me and they just sort of carry me along, and I think that's where a lot a lot of people are. On the flip side, though, you start to venture into spiritual circles, particularly Eastern spiritual circles, and you start hearing, you know, the Buddha's Second Noble Truth that craving desire is part of what causes us to suffer as humans. So at that point then we go, oh, it would be great not to have desire, And I think that that's an impossibility for the reasons that you've talked about. I don't think there's any way to turn that thing off. So I love what you say. I think the question becomes how to relate to it wisely and how do we use the energy that it has, because that is where a lot of energy comes from. Exactly, a lot of energy comes from going and getting what I want. How do we align that and to your point, how do we turn off the never enough mentality? Right? Because that's part of the problem is that any of us can probably look at our lives. I certainly can and be like, there was a time where I thought if I made X amount of money, I would be set. Oh great, good, I made that amount. Okay, well now it needs to be x and.

The goalpost moved.

The goalpost moved.

It could be the same thing with anything. Podcast downloads. If you told me ten years ago that we would have I don't know how many. I've almost stopped counting. Somewhere upwards are probably like forty million downloads, I would have said, oh my god, like yes, But now I look at that and I go, well, you know, but Joe Rogan gets like one hundred million a month or something. I mean, you can always move the goalposts and compare upwards.

It could be the same thing with anything. Podcast downloads. If you told me ten years ago that we would have I don't know how many. I've almost stopped counting. Somewhere upwards are probably like forty million downloads, I would have said, oh my god, like yes, But now I look at that and I go, well, you know, but Joe Rogan gets like one hundred million a month or something. I mean, you can always move the goalposts and compare upwards.

I have so much to say, Eric and what you just said, but I would start by saying, it's really important that we have clear definitions of what our metrics of success are.

I have so much to say, Eric and what you just said, but I would start by saying, it's really important that we have clear definitions of what our metrics of success are.

Right you, as a person.

Right you, as a person.

That's really important and you need to have that metrics of success dialed in. And then the second piece is that when that metrics of success is met aka the downloads, then you really have to take the time to let yourself be satiated and satisfied.

That's really important and you need to have that metrics of success dialed in. And then the second piece is that when that metrics of success is met aka the downloads, then you really have to take the time to let yourself be satiated and satisfied.

It is a visceral experience.

It is a visceral experience.

And I think that's what's missing in our conversation around money and finance and wealth is that we talk about it. It's abstract. We map it out on spreadsheets. I mean, I'm the first one. I love spreadsheets, that's what I do for a living. But equally important, and that's why I wrote this book.

And I think that's what's missing in our conversation around money and finance and wealth is that we talk about it. It's abstract. We map it out on spreadsheets. I mean, I'm the first one. I love spreadsheets, that's what I do for a living. But equally important, and that's why I wrote this book.

We have to learn how to experience wealth.

We have to learn how to experience wealth.

Because of not we get stuck in the cycle of accumulating for accumulating sake. So let me give you an example. Right, I'm about to publish a book. It might be out by the time this podcast or this episode is live, and I'm super clear on what my metrics of success for this book is. And it's these one on one conversations, though, these meaningful conversations, is why I wrote this book. Now, my editor told me what my pre orders number was. It was like, oh my god, that's amazing. They're beyond what I thought there would be. I don't know that many people, right, I mean, I know I'm a super communal person, but like, there are more people pre ordered the book.

Because of not we get stuck in the cycle of accumulating for accumulating sake. So let me give you an example. Right, I'm about to publish a book. It might be out by the time this podcast or this episode is live, and I'm super clear on what my metrics of success for this book is. And it's these one on one conversations, though, these meaningful conversations, is why I wrote this book. Now, my editor told me what my pre orders number was. It was like, oh my god, that's amazing. They're beyond what I thought there would be. I don't know that many people, right, I mean, I know I'm a super communal person, but like, there are more people pre ordered the book.

Than I know.

Than I know.

And I can slowly start to see the part and is like, oh, do I go for the New York Times bestsellers list?

And I can slowly start to see the part and is like, oh, do I go for the New York Times bestsellers list?

You know all this stuff, And I've had to have.

You know all this stuff, And I've had to have.

Conscious conversations with myself. No, Elizabeth, you wrote down what your metrical success are. If you get it, great, But it's these four things stay connected to that, and that's where the discipline is right.

Conscious conversations with myself. No, Elizabeth, you wrote down what your metrical success are. If you get it, great, But it's these four things stay connected to that, and that's where the discipline is right.

And this is really important.

And this is really important.

I am married to a spiritual practitioner who is stabilizing awakening, I would say, And so for him, he's working on not feeling to desire.

I am married to a spiritual practitioner who is stabilizing awakening, I would say, And so for him, he's working on not feeling to desire.

That's not me.

That's not me.

I'm considering myself a very human, desired oriented person and that's where my work is right. But what I can help people is help them channel desires towards a more purposeful, meaningful life. And then desire has a reason to be versus a fleeting, conpulsive or impulsive, right, and they're unconscious their life. And so that's the difference between more of an adolescent desire and a more mature version of ourselves. And I do think that we have the ability to become that more mature version.

I'm considering myself a very human, desired oriented person and that's where my work is right. But what I can help people is help them channel desires towards a more purposeful, meaningful life. And then desire has a reason to be versus a fleeting, conpulsive or impulsive, right, and they're unconscious their life. And so that's the difference between more of an adolescent desire and a more mature version of ourselves. And I do think that we have the ability to become that more mature version.

Let's go back to the.

Let's go back to the.

Wolf den, the mama wolf holding both of her baby wolves there and teaching them both how to be mature versions of themselves.

Wolf den, the mama wolf holding both of her baby wolves there and teaching them both how to be mature versions of themselves.

And we can do that in our relationship to money.

And we can do that in our relationship to money.

Yeah, there's a lot in there. I think what you're talking about a little bit is our values. Yeah, And can we try and get our values in line with our desires. If we can bring doing those things closer together, I think we experience more satisfaction. But I love that you use the word discipline, because I do think it is a discipline to not just get into the more and more and more mentality, given that it is in our evolutionary wiring, and it is our cultural story is both those things. And if we don't have the discipline to do what you are suggesting, which in essence is saying what is enough? Yeah, but it's a hard discipline.

Yeah, there's a lot in there. I think what you're talking about a little bit is our values. Yeah, And can we try and get our values in line with our desires. If we can bring doing those things closer together, I think we experience more satisfaction. But I love that you use the word discipline, because I do think it is a discipline to not just get into the more and more and more mentality, given that it is in our evolutionary wiring, and it is our cultural story is both those things. And if we don't have the discipline to do what you are suggesting, which in essence is saying what is enough? Yeah, but it's a hard discipline.

It is a hard discipline.

It is a hard discipline.

But that's why in the subtitle I use that word joy on purpose right, It can be a very joyful experience once you start. Right. It's kind of your example that you've used Eric of Like, it's not like you wake up wanting to go to the gym and workout every day, but when you do that our workout, you always feel better.

But that's why in the subtitle I use that word joy on purpose right, It can be a very joyful experience once you start. Right. It's kind of your example that you've used Eric of Like, it's not like you wake up wanting to go to the gym and workout every day, but when you do that our workout, you always feel better.

And so it's a similar experience.

And so it's a similar experience.

Right, Remember what is that short term outcome that potentially the discipline can bring and stay connected to that. Let me see something really important, because values is important, but that can you'll still abstract to people. They're like, oh my gosh, is there a whole list of values?

Right, Remember what is that short term outcome that potentially the discipline can bring and stay connected to that. Let me see something really important, because values is important, but that can you'll still abstract to people. They're like, oh my gosh, is there a whole list of values?

Where do I choose?

Where do I choose?

I really leaned on the work of both Maslow and another economist from Chile, Manfred Maxneff, and both of them did some really deep research and work around needs. Right, we're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy needs. Funny enough, he never wrote it as a hierarchy. That was later No, people don't know that, And so it's like, let's flatten the playing field, right, let's treat needs equally. I know that when one of the needs are on fire, that's where your focus has to go. Like if you're going through a health crisis, if you can't pay rent, for the month, like there are crisises in fires. But generally speaking, if we flatten it and we work with twelve human needs, one, we realize that needs are natural.

I really leaned on the work of both Maslow and another economist from Chile, Manfred Maxneff, and both of them did some really deep research and work around needs. Right, we're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy needs. Funny enough, he never wrote it as a hierarchy. That was later No, people don't know that, And so it's like, let's flatten the playing field, right, let's treat needs equally. I know that when one of the needs are on fire, that's where your focus has to go. Like if you're going through a health crisis, if you can't pay rent, for the month, like there are crisises in fires. But generally speaking, if we flatten it and we work with twelve human needs, one, we realize that needs are natural.

That's really important.

That's really important.

So we take away that language of being need. He's like, no, needs are natural, they're universal. The way we satisfy them is personal. That's the difference.

So we take away that language of being need. He's like, no, needs are natural, they're universal. The way we satisfy them is personal. That's the difference.

I love that line. Say that again because I've heard you say that, and I love that idea.

I love that line. Say that again because I've heard you say that, and I love that idea.

So needs are universal natural, The way we satisfy our needs is personal. And that's actually where we can bring our unique expression, our creativity, our purpose can be, and how we satisfy the needs, how we potentially find synergetic satisfiers, like are there things that you do that satisfy multiple needs?

So needs are universal natural, The way we satisfy our needs is personal. And that's actually where we can bring our unique expression, our creativity, our purpose can be, and how we satisfy the needs, how we potentially find synergetic satisfiers, like are there things that you do that satisfy multiple needs?

Right?

Right?

And by the way, Eric the needs Mondola, it's a free resource on my website.

And by the way, Eric the needs Mondola, it's a free resource on my website.

You don't even have to read the book.

You don't even have to read the book.

You can still go to my website and download and do the exercise. And I put twelve needs and there's a little space for choose your own because maybe there's a really important need that you have that's not on that Mandola by all means get creative. But the way that I work with this is that I have people right on a yearly basis instead of New Year's resolutions. Right, we take the wealth mondola, so on a scale of one to ten, ten being like I'm actually feeling super fulfilled and satisfied in this need. One being like, oh my goodness, I'm feeling empty. They color it out and so it ends up being this mondola that looks like a flower at the end of the day, and you put it on the wall, and it's amazing how no.

You can still go to my website and download and do the exercise. And I put twelve needs and there's a little space for choose your own because maybe there's a really important need that you have that's not on that Mandola by all means get creative. But the way that I work with this is that I have people right on a yearly basis instead of New Year's resolutions. Right, we take the wealth mondola, so on a scale of one to ten, ten being like I'm actually feeling super fulfilled and satisfied in this need. One being like, oh my goodness, I'm feeling empty. They color it out and so it ends up being this mondola that looks like a flower at the end of the day, and you put it on the wall, and it's amazing how no.

Matter what you call it looks beautiful.

Matter what you call it looks beautiful.

It's like a flower that always has unequal pedals, and you just take a moment and you admire. Okay, that's my life right now, Right there is color in some capacity. Then you sit with the needs that you're satisfying well, and you ask yourself, okay, what are my strategies here? Monetary in both monetary that's a key component, right, because we don't want to just throw money at satisfying a need. We have to have non monetary, non financial ways of doing it.

It's like a flower that always has unequal pedals, and you just take a moment and you admire. Okay, that's my life right now, Right there is color in some capacity. Then you sit with the needs that you're satisfying well, and you ask yourself, okay, what are my strategies here? Monetary in both monetary that's a key component, right, because we don't want to just throw money at satisfying a need. We have to have non monetary, non financial ways of doing it.

For example, need for connection.

For example, need for connection.

You could say, oh my gosh, I love taking friends out to dinner, I love hosting, and I end up buying all this food and you know it costs you more.

You could say, oh my gosh, I love taking friends out to dinner, I love hosting, and I end up buying all this food and you know it costs you more.

Than what you think.

Than what you think.

Right, Yes, it's fulfilling your need for connection, but maybe it's putting you in debt. So how can you have connection meant also in non monetary need in fute a friend out for a walk, right, you know, have a phone call.

Right, Yes, it's fulfilling your need for connection, but maybe it's putting you in debt. So how can you have connection meant also in non monetary need in fute a friend out for a walk, right, you know, have a phone call.

So I think that's.

So I think that's.

Really important because then you can take the strategies that are working in some needs and be like, hey, is there an overlap to some of the areas that aren't met?

Really important because then you can take the strategies that are working in some needs and be like, hey, is there an overlap to some of the areas that aren't met?

Right?

Right?

And so you start to see the conversation where like, Okay, I have desires. We generally tend towards wanting most of our needs met. We might gravitate to more than others. But how do you then channel that desire to use resources, consume resource exchange?

And so you start to see the conversation where like, Okay, I have desires. We generally tend towards wanting most of our needs met. We might gravitate to more than others. But how do you then channel that desire to use resources, consume resource exchange?

Those are neutral.

Those are neutral.

Acts, but how do you channel them in a way that brings you a sense of fulfillment?

Acts, but how do you channel them in a way that brings you a sense of fulfillment?

Differently?

Differently?

And then how do you take the time to truly consume that? And that's really important. I actually tell my clients to stop and to swallow when they feel fulfilled and let their cells in their body recognize and digest what this moment of meaning is, because then you start to compound moments of meaning viscerally, and your body starts to learn what enough feels like.

And then how do you take the time to truly consume that? And that's really important. I actually tell my clients to stop and to swallow when they feel fulfilled and let their cells in their body recognize and digest what this moment of meaning is, because then you start to compound moments of meaning viscerally, and your body starts to learn what enough feels like.

It's similar to the process that's been described by different people of savoring right learning to save or something, which is the same thing. Doctor Rick Hanson has been writing about this for years, this idea of you've got a pause when something good is happening and really sit with it and amplify it and allow it to drop into you. And this is something I am as I think about. I'm just not very good at good things happen and I just kind of like, oh, good, okay next.

It's similar to the process that's been described by different people of savoring right learning to save or something, which is the same thing. Doctor Rick Hanson has been writing about this for years, this idea of you've got a pause when something good is happening and really sit with it and amplify it and allow it to drop into you. And this is something I am as I think about. I'm just not very good at good things happen and I just kind of like, oh, good, okay next.

But what's really important, though, is that you know, we want this in our portfolios. We want our money to make money, right. We love compound interest, so we see how it works there. And if we were to take that same principle into savoring these moments of meaning, they will start to compound inside of you.

But what's really important, though, is that you know, we want this in our portfolios. We want our money to make money, right. We love compound interest, so we see how it works there. And if we were to take that same principle into savoring these moments of meaning, they will start to compound inside of you.

I think that's a really important point because a lot of these little practices that we do. I fall prey to this all the time. You listen to some people on a show and they describe some of you think I really should do that, you know, and you think it's going to be great, and you do it and it's nothing, nothing different. You do it again. Nothing really different, and you go, eh, not for me, and you're done. Whereas the idea of little by little little becomes a lot or you know, compound interest is that these little things accumulate. I mean, the story I always talk about is when I had a job that I went to and you know, went in and out of the office every day. I had this low practice when I walked out to my car, when I walked from my car to the office, from the office to the car back to the house. When I was walking, I played this little thing called grounding in your senses where I would just say, like, what are five things I can see right now? What are five things I can hear right now? And doing that one time is mildly pleasant, I suppose. But what happened is by doing that again and again and again, you know, five days a week, month after month, my capacity to be present deepened almost immeasurably at a time. But if you looked at the beginning of that to the end of it, I was very different in my ability to remain present. And now that that discipline is gone, I can tell that I don't have the capacity I had back then.

I think that's a really important point because a lot of these little practices that we do. I fall prey to this all the time. You listen to some people on a show and they describe some of you think I really should do that, you know, and you think it's going to be great, and you do it and it's nothing, nothing different. You do it again. Nothing really different, and you go, eh, not for me, and you're done. Whereas the idea of little by little little becomes a lot or you know, compound interest is that these little things accumulate. I mean, the story I always talk about is when I had a job that I went to and you know, went in and out of the office every day. I had this low practice when I walked out to my car, when I walked from my car to the office, from the office to the car back to the house. When I was walking, I played this little thing called grounding in your senses where I would just say, like, what are five things I can see right now? What are five things I can hear right now? And doing that one time is mildly pleasant, I suppose. But what happened is by doing that again and again and again, you know, five days a week, month after month, my capacity to be present deepened almost immeasurably at a time. But if you looked at the beginning of that to the end of it, I was very different in my ability to remain present. And now that that discipline is gone, I can tell that I don't have the capacity I had back then.

Yeah, And I think, what's really important is you know, coming back to your example of like Buddhism or some Eastern traditions, I would even say kind of Western traditions, the discipline of going to kind of mass or sitting in meditation or going to sanga. Right, you're with other people practicing a discipline, and how important that is. And what's tricky in my field is that a we don't talk about money right, and much less do we talk about our experience with money. If we talk about money, we're talking about stock picks and investments and best things. And so I think that's what's really important is that it's not only hard to do. These disciplines are on our own. Sometimes it's easier in community. But we don't have ways in to talk about money in a safe way. And that's the other reason why I wrote this book is you know, when I was having this conversation with my compliance office where I'm like, I do not talk There's not a word about investments, right, it is about your relationship to money. Because I wanted to give people a doorway in where they could start to explore their own relationship with money and potentially have ways to talk about money with people that felt more approachable because I think once we start to I mean, I would love like a savoring sanga. That'd be freaking awesome.

Yeah, And I think, what's really important is you know, coming back to your example of like Buddhism or some Eastern traditions, I would even say kind of Western traditions, the discipline of going to kind of mass or sitting in meditation or going to sanga. Right, you're with other people practicing a discipline, and how important that is. And what's tricky in my field is that a we don't talk about money right, and much less do we talk about our experience with money. If we talk about money, we're talking about stock picks and investments and best things. And so I think that's what's really important is that it's not only hard to do. These disciplines are on our own. Sometimes it's easier in community. But we don't have ways in to talk about money in a safe way. And that's the other reason why I wrote this book is you know, when I was having this conversation with my compliance office where I'm like, I do not talk There's not a word about investments, right, it is about your relationship to money. Because I wanted to give people a doorway in where they could start to explore their own relationship with money and potentially have ways to talk about money with people that felt more approachable because I think once we start to I mean, I would love like a savoring sanga. That'd be freaking awesome.

Maybe we'll start that one day.

Maybe we'll start that one day.

But let's form a little text group where we text each other and savor something every day.

But let's form a little text group where we text each other and savor something every day.

Yeah, I mean, I see it.

Yeah, I mean, I see it.

Like at work, we do a daily scrum where a firm of fourteen and every day we say one thing We're grateful for, one thing I'm working on, one obstacle I have, and every.

Like at work, we do a daily scrum where a firm of fourteen and every day we say one thing We're grateful for, one thing I'm working on, one obstacle I have, and every.

Day via email, and it's amazing. God is a discipline.

Day via email, and it's amazing. God is a discipline.

It gets started off the culture that has been built because we have that shared discipline. And there's days where I'm like, oh my gosh, I really have to dig deep.

It gets started off the culture that has been built because we have that shared discipline. And there's days where I'm like, oh my gosh, I really have to dig deep.

What am I grateful for today? But I know that I have.

What am I grateful for today? But I know that I have.

To show up because I've asked all my team members to show up right, and so sometimes when we're also holding ourselves accountable, these can be easier.

To show up because I've asked all my team members to show up right, and so sometimes when we're also holding ourselves accountable, these can be easier.

I've started sending a couple of text messages after each podcast listener with positive reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom to your life. It's free, and listeners have told me that these texts really help to pull them out of autopilot and reconnect them with what's important. When you get a text for me during your day to day life, it's one more thing that helps you further bridge that gap between what you know and what you do. Positive messages when you need them from me to you. So if you'd like to hear from me a few times a week via text, go to oneufeed dot net slash text and sign up for free. We're going to get into more of this relationship with money in a minute, and I think you're going to answer the question I'm about to ask by going there. But here's the experience I think almost all all of us have, and I'm curious what you think about how to work with this, which is I'm going about my day, I'm feeling just fine. I hop on Instagram and I see so and so on a yacht in some beautiful ocean with beautiful people around, and I'm suddenly now filled with envy and desire and craving and all of that. And it's around us all the time. We are constantly being fed images of what we do not have, and it does not feel good. So how do you think about responding when that comes up? Because I think we've sort of said, to some degree, maybe it's natural that that comes up, But what's the response? What's your response?

I've started sending a couple of text messages after each podcast listener with positive reminders about what's discussed and invitations to apply the wisdom to your life. It's free, and listeners have told me that these texts really help to pull them out of autopilot and reconnect them with what's important. When you get a text for me during your day to day life, it's one more thing that helps you further bridge that gap between what you know and what you do. Positive messages when you need them from me to you. So if you'd like to hear from me a few times a week via text, go to oneufeed dot net slash text and sign up for free. We're going to get into more of this relationship with money in a minute, and I think you're going to answer the question I'm about to ask by going there. But here's the experience I think almost all all of us have, and I'm curious what you think about how to work with this, which is I'm going about my day, I'm feeling just fine. I hop on Instagram and I see so and so on a yacht in some beautiful ocean with beautiful people around, and I'm suddenly now filled with envy and desire and craving and all of that. And it's around us all the time. We are constantly being fed images of what we do not have, and it does not feel good. So how do you think about responding when that comes up? Because I think we've sort of said, to some degree, maybe it's natural that that comes up, But what's the response? What's your response?

Yeah, I mean I do feel like it's natural. And so the first thing I try to do with myself is to not shame myself. Right, I've learned how not to be so hypercritical, I think is often like our first response. And then what I'll do, You know, I'll put the phone down, right because you're going to have to stop the doomless scrolling at some point, and I'll be like, Okay, let me go back to that picture of the yacht, the beautiful people, the ocean, the water.

Yeah, I mean I do feel like it's natural. And so the first thing I try to do with myself is to not shame myself. Right, I've learned how not to be so hypercritical, I think is often like our first response. And then what I'll do, You know, I'll put the phone down, right because you're going to have to stop the doomless scrolling at some point, and I'll be like, Okay, let me go back to that picture of the yacht, the beautiful people, the ocean, the water.

What of that scene am I truly jealous of?

What of that scene am I truly jealous of?

And I ask myself that hard question because in my experience eric jealousy it's a little red flag that goes up and says there's something there that you do want, right, And what of that scene.

And I ask myself that hard question because in my experience eric jealousy it's a little red flag that goes up and says there's something there that you do want, right, And what of that scene.

That I really don't want?

That I really don't want?

I personally don't necessarily need a yacht that I'm like, my brain goes and that's actually really expensive to maintain, Right, do you need it?

I personally don't necessarily need a yacht that I'm like, my brain goes and that's actually really expensive to maintain, Right, do you need it?

That's where my brain goes.

That's where my brain goes.

But I love ocean and I love the sense of like beach and stand in like sun on my skin. That is something that I know I need in my life a lot. And so if I'm like, okay, great, that's what I'm identifying that I really want some of one.

But I love ocean and I love the sense of like beach and stand in like sun on my skin. That is something that I know I need in my life a lot. And so if I'm like, okay, great, that's what I'm identifying that I really want some of one.

Can I satisfy that right now?

Can I satisfy that right now?

Can I just step away from my computer and just go stand outside the sun? Can I tell my body that it can experience that feeling of relaxation sunshine? Do you see, like, is there something that I can immediately feed myself with? And you know, it might be a super rainy day and cold and you're like, well that's out right.

Can I just step away from my computer and just go stand outside the sun? Can I tell my body that it can experience that feeling of relaxation sunshine? Do you see, like, is there something that I can immediately feed myself with? And you know, it might be a super rainy day and cold and you're like, well that's out right.

Or and so can you take a warm bath?

Or and so can you take a warm bath?

That's the case, but can you give yourself the comfort of what you're craving? Maybe you're like, God, damn it, I'm working too hard.

That's the case, but can you give yourself the comfort of what you're craving? Maybe you're like, God, damn it, I'm working too hard.

I really want a vacation.

I really want a vacation.

Maybe we can't conjure up beautiful people, but you do want to conjure up some leisure time. Is there a way to bring some more leisure? So I'm naming these again needs that we have. What need did it touch? Can you once satisfy that immediately? And if you can't immediately, what's the strategy to bring more of that into your life? So treating it as an experience of information versus something to shame or get really upset about. I mean, you have to be careful not to go down the comparative spiral, because that's still good. That's where the comparative wolf just eats your head off. But if you're like, Okay, it's showing me something that I want to pay attention to, pay attention and bring it back to the needs conversation and is there anything that can be met today?

Maybe we can't conjure up beautiful people, but you do want to conjure up some leisure time. Is there a way to bring some more leisure? So I'm naming these again needs that we have. What need did it touch? Can you once satisfy that immediately? And if you can't immediately, what's the strategy to bring more of that into your life? So treating it as an experience of information versus something to shame or get really upset about. I mean, you have to be careful not to go down the comparative spiral, because that's still good. That's where the comparative wolf just eats your head off. But if you're like, Okay, it's showing me something that I want to pay attention to, pay attention and bring it back to the needs conversation and is there anything that can be met today?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I love that idea. My partner Jenny said once talking about emotional eating and overeating, that when she thought what she wanted was a cupcake, there was only one way to get it, it's a cupcake. Well, when she realized what she wanted was not to be bored or not to be sad, or some sort of comfort, there's lots of ways to get that. Back to your point about needs or universal there are lots of different ways to satisfy them. I like that idea of what is this bringing up in.

I love that idea. My partner Jenny said once talking about emotional eating and overeating, that when she thought what she wanted was a cupcake, there was only one way to get it, it's a cupcake. Well, when she realized what she wanted was not to be bored or not to be sad, or some sort of comfort, there's lots of ways to get that. Back to your point about needs or universal there are lots of different ways to satisfy them. I like that idea of what is this bringing up in.

Me and for me?

Me and for me?

Sometimes there's a phrase mimetic desire. Right, we want something because we see others want it, and we get conditioned by that over a long period of time. And so I described this scene in my book that I'm working on of We're in Atlanta a lot because that's where Jenny's family is, and driving down certain streets in Buckhead there are enormous houses on lots of land. They're gorgeous, and I can find myself driving down that road and starting to get the I don't have that. Why don't I have that? I wish I had that, But I had this experience where, at the same time, I turned my attention to what I was listening to, and it was a band called The gas Light Anthem, and there's sort of a semi punk rock kind of band, and I realized that the values that I get from that are completely opposite of those values, right, And I saw myself flip back and forth between these things really quickly, and so what I then kind of had to do is go, well, which of those values do I want? Or again, the values we could talk about needs, But which of those things do I want to orient my life around. The music tells me the value of connection and belonging and being yourself and you know, creativity and expression, right, I want to orient around that, not around having more and more money, even though having more and more money does pull on me sometimes.

Sometimes there's a phrase mimetic desire. Right, we want something because we see others want it, and we get conditioned by that over a long period of time. And so I described this scene in my book that I'm working on of We're in Atlanta a lot because that's where Jenny's family is, and driving down certain streets in Buckhead there are enormous houses on lots of land. They're gorgeous, and I can find myself driving down that road and starting to get the I don't have that. Why don't I have that? I wish I had that, But I had this experience where, at the same time, I turned my attention to what I was listening to, and it was a band called The gas Light Anthem, and there's sort of a semi punk rock kind of band, and I realized that the values that I get from that are completely opposite of those values, right, And I saw myself flip back and forth between these things really quickly, and so what I then kind of had to do is go, well, which of those values do I want? Or again, the values we could talk about needs, But which of those things do I want to orient my life around. The music tells me the value of connection and belonging and being yourself and you know, creativity and expression, right, I want to orient around that, not around having more and more money, even though having more and more money does pull on me sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, as you're speak Eric, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's the revolution I hope for, Like I hope to live to see a revolution where people are reclaiming the power of knowing what enough is because I think the more of us that talk that way, the more of us that share that way, the more of us that express that's enough, right, and let me tell you what my values are and let me express who I am, the more we can start to shift the cultural mainstream definition of success and wealth.

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, as you're speak Eric, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's the revolution I hope for, Like I hope to live to see a revolution where people are reclaiming the power of knowing what enough is because I think the more of us that talk that way, the more of us that share that way, the more of us that express that's enough, right, and let me tell you what my values are and let me express who I am, the more we can start to shift the cultural mainstream definition of success and wealth.

Right, And we are talking about this with someone else where. It's like we drink this.

Right, And we are talking about this with someone else where. It's like we drink this.

Kool aid that the way to feel wealthy and feel a bunton is to have more money. It's just a cool aid, right, And so part of it is like, wait a second, let me backtrack and be like, what is my definition of success?

Kool aid that the way to feel wealthy and feel a bunton is to have more money. It's just a cool aid, right, And so part of it is like, wait a second, let me backtrack and be like, what is my definition of success?

What is my definition of wealth?

What is my definition of wealth?

And then you can drive down that street and be like, you know what that's someone else is awesome, beautiful house, keep going, But I'm driving.

And then you can drive down that street and be like, you know what that's someone else is awesome, beautiful house, keep going, But I'm driving.

Towards what mine is.

Towards what mine is.

And the more we know that, the more freedom we find, because I think people forget that financial freedom or financial retire or independence that people so desperately want is a formula of how much do you spend and how much do you need to save to support that spend.

And the more we know that, the more freedom we find, because I think people forget that financial freedom or financial retire or independence that people so desperately want is a formula of how much do you spend and how much do you need to save to support that spend.

If you spend less, you actually need to save less.

If you spend less, you actually need to save less.

Right. If there's this irony to it is that people want the freedom in life, and that's I think one of the beauties of being a financial planners that I can think about the yacht, I can think about the house in my brain goes like, oh my gosh, what's the property tax? That feels overwhelming? Why would I do that?

Right. If there's this irony to it is that people want the freedom in life, and that's I think one of the beauties of being a financial planners that I can think about the yacht, I can think about the house in my brain goes like, oh my gosh, what's the property tax? That feels overwhelming? Why would I do that?

You know what I mean?

You know what I mean?

But that's how I'm trained, because that's what I do all day long with cash flow, and I'm like, not worth it.

But that's how I'm trained, because that's what I do all day long with cash flow, and I'm like, not worth it.

Because here's the thing, Eric.

Because here's the thing, Eric.

If that image of that house keeps coming and being like, you know what, I would just love to experience that one day.

If that image of that house keeps coming and being like, you know what, I would just love to experience that one day.

Great, you know the cheaper way to do it.

Great, you know the cheaper way to do it.

Book an Airbnb for weekend, right and book that really nice house, invite twelve of your best friends, have a freaking awesome party.

Book an Airbnb for weekend, right and book that really nice house, invite twelve of your best friends, have a freaking awesome party.

Get it out of your system. You didn't have to buy a house.

Get it out of your system. You didn't have to buy a house.

Right.

Right.

The other thing is it is just this perpetual myth that I think is tied back to what we talked about. It's partially in our biology and it's in our culture that if I had X, I would be happy. Before we talked, I was talking with Tim Shriver, who's a member of the Kennedy family, right, so he's around rich and powerful and famous people all the time. He said the thing that we all know, which is happy. A lot of them, they're not any happier. And we know this. We look at people like Robin Williams. That's just the one that comes to mind, famous, rich beloved killed himself, Anthony Bourdain, right, So we know on some level that this idea if I had that, if I had that, if I had that is a myth. And there's a lot of reasons why it is. I mean, one of them is just habituation. You move into that big house. Soon it becomes normal, So it's just what you're used to, and it doesn't generate the joy that it does the first week or month. And so this myth is here. And so I think what you're pointings towards is really some practical tools to turn in a different direction and towards what enough might be.

The other thing is it is just this perpetual myth that I think is tied back to what we talked about. It's partially in our biology and it's in our culture that if I had X, I would be happy. Before we talked, I was talking with Tim Shriver, who's a member of the Kennedy family, right, so he's around rich and powerful and famous people all the time. He said the thing that we all know, which is happy. A lot of them, they're not any happier. And we know this. We look at people like Robin Williams. That's just the one that comes to mind, famous, rich beloved killed himself, Anthony Bourdain, right, So we know on some level that this idea if I had that, if I had that, if I had that is a myth. And there's a lot of reasons why it is. I mean, one of them is just habituation. You move into that big house. Soon it becomes normal, So it's just what you're used to, and it doesn't generate the joy that it does the first week or month. And so this myth is here. And so I think what you're pointings towards is really some practical tools to turn in a different direction and towards what enough might be.

Exactly, because I think in reality is that every single human being on this planet will deal with anxiety depression, scarcity, you know, all the human stuff right right, you know, shame, isolation, like it's just part of being human. And what happens is that we mistake and scapegoat that if we throw money at the problem, it will go away. That is the number one thing that I hear clients tell me, Eric, I want to make so much money I don't have.

Exactly, because I think in reality is that every single human being on this planet will deal with anxiety depression, scarcity, you know, all the human stuff right right, you know, shame, isolation, like it's just part of being human. And what happens is that we mistake and scapegoat that if we throw money at the problem, it will go away. That is the number one thing that I hear clients tell me, Eric, I want to make so much money I don't have.

To think about it.

To think about it.

And what they're trying to tell me is that I want to make so much money that I want to feel anxious for whatever comes with being human.

And what they're trying to tell me is that I want to make so much money that I want to feel anxious for whatever comes with being human.

And so I think that's a really important piece. I'm like, huh, now, that's interesting, right.

And so I think that's a really important piece. I'm like, huh, now, that's interesting, right.

And one of the exercises in the book Conversations with Money, right, is the assault chair exercise or the empty chair exercise, where you literally sit down and have a conversation with money, or you have a conversation with the part of you that deals with money, and what quickly emerges is that it has nothing to do with money. It's about your relationship right to scarcity or abundance or worth or you name. And that's where you know, my job as a financial planner is to separate what money is and.

And one of the exercises in the book Conversations with Money, right, is the assault chair exercise or the empty chair exercise, where you literally sit down and have a conversation with money, or you have a conversation with the part of you that deals with money, and what quickly emerges is that it has nothing to do with money. It's about your relationship right to scarcity or abundance or worth or you name. And that's where you know, my job as a financial planner is to separate what money is and.

What it's not.

What it's not.

I'll do all the cashfol organizations. But sometimes what's more interesting is what's the angst around being human that you're feeling. Yeah, it's really uncomfortable. I don't wish it on you, but kind of part of being here. So let's go there.

I'll do all the cashfol organizations. But sometimes what's more interesting is what's the angst around being human that you're feeling. Yeah, it's really uncomfortable. I don't wish it on you, but kind of part of being here. So let's go there.

What tools do you need to be able to not get stuck there? Right?

What tools do you need to be able to not get stuck there? Right?

How do we feed the wolf that has the light that can shine light and gain kind of more clarity so you can move through it?

How do we feed the wolf that has the light that can shine light and gain kind of more clarity so you can move through it?

And so I think that's the important.

And so I think that's the important.

Piece is that I think if we were to just wake up and realize money doesn't solve the issue of being human, we would just kind of like rest into that and be like, Okay, well I can stop grasping for it. I can still be in relationship with it, but I'll stop grasping for it and let me just deal with being human.

Piece is that I think if we were to just wake up and realize money doesn't solve the issue of being human, we would just kind of like rest into that and be like, Okay, well I can stop grasping for it. I can still be in relationship with it, but I'll stop grasping for it and let me just deal with being human.

That's a really kind of amazing point. And I think about this sometimes. I go back to that line you said about needs or universal You know, strategies are personal because I've sort of explored that from a different angle. It's how I relate to other people. If I can I relate to them from Every human wants to have some degree of pleasure and avoid pain. It's just kind of at the most base level. And then I say, so we all are like that. Everything up from there starts to become about strategy. And so I can say, well, I am like you. I don't like your strategy. I think your strategy is a wrong strategy, or I think that strategy hurts other people, or it's not the one that I choose, or oh god, that's a good strategy. But underneath, I'm saying okay, and you're doing the same thing you're seeing. Everybody has these twelve needs. Doesn't matter what you do, wherever you get. If you can't somehow arrive at a relationship with that need, an ability to more or less say I have enough, or adjust in a wise way, you will struggle, right, because being human is to struggle. I love that idea that money doesn't solve are human.