It is the mitochondria that sets up the innate response for your immune system. And that is why the people who struggled with COVID were the diabetics and the metabolic syndromes, and the obyse and the hypertensives, and they already have mitochondria that I like limpin alone.

It is the mitochondria that sets up the innate response for your immune system. And that is why the people who struggled with COVID were the diabetics and the metabolic syndromes, and the obyse and the hypertensives, and they already have mitochondria that I like limpin alone.

Doctor Crista Bell, Yo, welcome to the podcast. Now you're on this podcast because I was speaking at the ACNUM conference, the Australian College of Nutritional Environmental Medicine, and you were speaking a little bit before me, and I was absolutely captivated. You talked about my two favorite subjects in one you talked about hormesis and you talked about the mitochondria. And I think I was a bit through my talk and I said were chrys de Bell and like, where have you been all my life? Yeah?

Doctor Crista Bell, Yo, welcome to the podcast. Now you're on this podcast because I was speaking at the ACNUM conference, the Australian College of Nutritional Environmental Medicine, and you were speaking a little bit before me, and I was absolutely captivated. You talked about my two favorite subjects in one you talked about hormesis and you talked about the mitochondria. And I think I was a bit through my talk and I said were chrys de Bell and like, where have you been all my life? Yeah?

That was that was funny. I was very toughed. Thank you.

That was that was funny. I was very toughed. Thank you.

I was like, oh, that because it was such a good that's probably the best talk that I In fact that it's the best talk I've seen in years at any conference. And I thought you must be some geeky researcher who spent their whole career diving into the mitochondria and home. It's just but you're not. You're actually a GP. So tell our listeners about just you, your journey and why you got interested in this and why you became an integrative GP as well, and maybe define that because some people may not be a word of the difference.

I was like, oh, that because it was such a good that's probably the best talk that I In fact that it's the best talk I've seen in years at any conference. And I thought you must be some geeky researcher who spent their whole career diving into the mitochondria and home. It's just but you're not. You're actually a GP. So tell our listeners about just you, your journey and why you got interested in this and why you became an integrative GP as well, and maybe define that because some people may not be a word of the difference.

Okay, well I'll also define actually some people maybe don't know that the difference between being a physician and a GP.

Okay, well I'll also define actually some people maybe don't know that the difference between being a physician and a GP.

I'm actually a physician.

I'm actually a physician.

I was trained in the UK, and I was on my way to being a gastro and trologist, and I was all into nutrition and things like that, and then I realized in my guestro clinics that I couldn't do very much in ten minutes in the NHS, in the wonderful White Chapel Hospital in East London, and I decided, well, I don't think I can work in this kind of environment where ten minutes to talk to patients and to treat very chronic symptoms. And as much as I loved hospital medicine and acute medicine, I decided I would just specialize in nutrition and go into private practice.

I was trained in the UK, and I was on my way to being a gastro and trologist, and I was all into nutrition and things like that, and then I realized in my guestro clinics that I couldn't do very much in ten minutes in the NHS, in the wonderful White Chapel Hospital in East London, and I decided, well, I don't think I can work in this kind of environment where ten minutes to talk to patients and to treat very chronic symptoms. And as much as I loved hospital medicine and acute medicine, I decided I would just specialize in nutrition and go into private practice.

As a physician.

As a physician.

And so that's what I did eighteen years ago. I mean, a doctor for more twenty five years.

And so that's what I did eighteen years ago. I mean, a doctor for more twenty five years.

Oh wow, yeah, like you like the female version of Peter Pant.

Oh wow, yeah, like you like the female version of Peter Pant.

Well, perhaps it's the Asian genes and you know, well, to be honest, everything I've taught my patients I do myself. And I really started off in an environmental medicine and nutrition and environmental medicine.

Well, perhaps it's the Asian genes and you know, well, to be honest, everything I've taught my patients I do myself. And I really started off in an environmental medicine and nutrition and environmental medicine.

I know about all what's toxic. I know all about what not to do.

I know about all what's toxic. I know all about what not to do.

Don't invite me to your parties because I'm a real party pooper.

Don't invite me to your parties because I'm a real party pooper.

I'm like, don't eat that, don't drink that.

I'm like, don't eat that, don't drink that.

But anyway, so that was my journey into being in Australia, they call them integrative doctors. Yeah, but yeah, my background is an environmental and nutritional medicine.

But anyway, so that was my journey into being in Australia, they call them integrative doctors. Yeah, but yeah, my background is an environmental and nutritional medicine.

And when you do your basic doctor training, did you do it in the UK? How much nutritional education did you get in the basic training?

And when you do your basic doctor training, did you do it in the UK? How much nutritional education did you get in the basic training?

I don't remember any.

I don't remember any.

Yeah, it's I think some places it's two weeks. Some medical schools it's not.

Yeah, it's I think some places it's two weeks. Some medical schools it's not.

No, it's not never two weeks.

No, it's not never two weeks.

It's usually one lecture or half a day here, half a day there. I don't actually remember any, but maybe because I didn't tell them, But I actually then I did a master's degree in human nutrition at King's College in London. But when I decided, I was a gastron Trilogy registrar and I decided, I can't really practice like this. I'm going to go back to school and study nutrition. So I went and got a postcrad Masters in nutrition, and then I went back into medicine.

It's usually one lecture or half a day here, half a day there. I don't actually remember any, but maybe because I didn't tell them, But I actually then I did a master's degree in human nutrition at King's College in London. But when I decided, I was a gastron Trilogy registrar and I decided, I can't really practice like this. I'm going to go back to school and study nutrition. So I went and got a postcrad Masters in nutrition, and then I went back into medicine.

So that's how I interesting. That's so, so you had done had you finished your residency and things like that, Yeah, okay, and then you went back into the masters. Wow, that's that's pretty full on and taking a year right after doing all that training and just getting to the point where hey, I can I earn some money, and then you went back to university and did the masters.

So that's how I interesting. That's so, so you had done had you finished your residency and things like that, Yeah, okay, and then you went back into the masters. Wow, that's that's pretty full on and taking a year right after doing all that training and just getting to the point where hey, I can I earn some money, and then you went back to university and did the masters.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so because of doing that and then being in private practice and really thinking outside of just regular acute medicine, which I love, but really every day doctors everyday work is very much chronic disease.

And so because of doing that and then being in private practice and really thinking outside of just regular acute medicine, which I love, but really every day doctors everyday work is very much chronic disease.

You really have to think about, well, what are all the drivers.

You really have to think about, well, what are all the drivers.

The contributors, the lifestyle factors, the toxic cities of the environment. So I was doing that really, and the sorts of patients that I was seeing, chronic fatigue syndromes and all sorts of syndromes that medicine, couldn't label, couldn't understand, and indeed were more complex. So they would come to doctors like us because they've seen the neurologists, they've seen the romatologist, they've seen the gasterentrologists. Maybe they have a label, maybe they don't a lot of the times, first that would get the people who didn't have the labels but know that there's something wrong and it's not just in their head, and then they would come to environmental medicine doctors like myself. So from doing that, I've had experience of very complex, very strange, very complicated conditions.

The contributors, the lifestyle factors, the toxic cities of the environment. So I was doing that really, and the sorts of patients that I was seeing, chronic fatigue syndromes and all sorts of syndromes that medicine, couldn't label, couldn't understand, and indeed were more complex. So they would come to doctors like us because they've seen the neurologists, they've seen the romatologist, they've seen the gasterentrologists. Maybe they have a label, maybe they don't a lot of the times, first that would get the people who didn't have the labels but know that there's something wrong and it's not just in their head, and then they would come to environmental medicine doctors like myself. So from doing that, I've had experience of very complex, very strange, very complicated conditions.

But really, when you just go back to.

But really, when you just go back to.

Physiology, biochemistry, understanding the body globally as a huge you know, systems biology thing that you have to know a bit of everything, so is like being a GP and not being a specialist.

Physiology, biochemistry, understanding the body globally as a huge you know, systems biology thing that you have to know a bit of everything, so is like being a GP and not being a specialist.

And then we go right down to the cellular levels.

And then we go right down to the cellular levels.

And it gets ridiculously complex when you get down to the cellular level, doesn't it, And the whole physiology and how nutrition interacts with our cells and all of the cell processes. I want to zero in on metabolic health in general, but then do a dive into the mitochondria because that's really the thing that captivated me about your talk. So, metabolic syndrome is a collection of things, and there's different as you and iBooks know, there are different criteria depending on who you listen to, but typically three from five of central obesity, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, lowing it's DL, and high fasting glucose. Why that cluster, why is that cluster so important? And the interaction between those things.

And it gets ridiculously complex when you get down to the cellular level, doesn't it, And the whole physiology and how nutrition interacts with our cells and all of the cell processes. I want to zero in on metabolic health in general, but then do a dive into the mitochondria because that's really the thing that captivated me about your talk. So, metabolic syndrome is a collection of things, and there's different as you and iBooks know, there are different criteria depending on who you listen to, but typically three from five of central obesity, high blood pressure, high triglycerides, lowing it's DL, and high fasting glucose. Why that cluster, why is that cluster so important? And the interaction between those things.

Why it's important, I think just plays out in that that's where the rubber hits the road in terms of the interactions of where we see chronic disease happen, which is cardiovascular health, heart attacks, strokes, dementia, and then you know the various range of.

Why it's important, I think just plays out in that that's where the rubber hits the road in terms of the interactions of where we see chronic disease happen, which is cardiovascular health, heart attacks, strokes, dementia, and then you know the various range of.

Blood clotting type of issues.

Blood clotting type of issues.

Because that's rubber hits the roads like the endothelial system, and that endothelial system, the mitochondria play a huge role in looking after that. Maybe we can come to that later, but then okay, well, the mitochondric also play a huge role in you know, keeping a blood sugar level and things like that. But I think from a medical definition of the high fasting insulin, the high blood sugar, the high trigly strides, that's because together, that's just the.

Because that's rubber hits the roads like the endothelial system, and that endothelial system, the mitochondria play a huge role in looking after that. Maybe we can come to that later, but then okay, well, the mitochondric also play a huge role in you know, keeping a blood sugar level and things like that. But I think from a medical definition of the high fasting insulin, the high blood sugar, the high trigly strides, that's because together, that's just the.

Train wreck in the enothelial vasculature.

Train wreck in the enothelial vasculature.

And it's basically your kind of you know, from a layman's perspective, metabolically, you're starting to fall apart when you have that cluster. I remember when I was doing my first attempt at a pH d, which I then moved on to something else. But one of my supervisors, she was a doctor and a research change. She said to me, because I was doing a study, We're measuring metabolic syndrome in people and often, you know, they take the central obesity high blood pressure of the traguler said to the HDL, but often their glucose wasn't too bad. And she said to me, glucose is typically the last thing to go, and that gives people a false sense of security because they tend to really look at their glucose and type two diabetes and they think I'm okay. But is that your observation as well, that it tends to be the last to go.

And it's basically your kind of you know, from a layman's perspective, metabolically, you're starting to fall apart when you have that cluster. I remember when I was doing my first attempt at a pH d, which I then moved on to something else. But one of my supervisors, she was a doctor and a research change. She said to me, because I was doing a study, We're measuring metabolic syndrome in people and often, you know, they take the central obesity high blood pressure of the traguler said to the HDL, but often their glucose wasn't too bad. And she said to me, glucose is typically the last thing to go, and that gives people a false sense of security because they tend to really look at their glucose and type two diabetes and they think I'm okay. But is that your observation as well, that it tends to be the last to go.

Oh. Absolutely.

Oh. Absolutely.

It's funny that having this discussion be because that was my conclusion to years ago, like, you know, I don't care what your blood glucos is, but I will do an insulin and more interested. I would want I get all my patients to do a continuous glucose monitor. So yes, I do care what the glucosi is, but not just on that Tuesday morning am fasting test. You know, I was like, Okay, it's five point four and that's not very good. I'd like to see it around four point five. But it's inside the normal range. And everyone thinks they've got away with it and they're fine. But if you do a continuous glucose monitor and you can see the pattern through the day, the days and the weeks, then you start to see all the zig zag peaks and troughs that people go through, and that is the big driver for insulent resistance.

It's funny that having this discussion be because that was my conclusion to years ago, like, you know, I don't care what your blood glucos is, but I will do an insulin and more interested. I would want I get all my patients to do a continuous glucose monitor. So yes, I do care what the glucosi is, but not just on that Tuesday morning am fasting test. You know, I was like, Okay, it's five point four and that's not very good. I'd like to see it around four point five. But it's inside the normal range. And everyone thinks they've got away with it and they're fine. But if you do a continuous glucose monitor and you can see the pattern through the day, the days and the weeks, then you start to see all the zig zag peaks and troughs that people go through, and that is the big driver for insulent resistance.

Yeah, and now I'm a massifier the continuous monitor. I think everybody should should try it at least once, because it gives you some really interesting insights, doesn't it. Because one food you might spike your blood glucose ridiculously, and then for me it'll be fine, and then another food it will be vice versa. Right, and this one size fits all approach is complete and other nonsense when it comes to nutrition.

Yeah, and now I'm a massifier the continuous monitor. I think everybody should should try it at least once, because it gives you some really interesting insights, doesn't it. Because one food you might spike your blood glucose ridiculously, and then for me it'll be fine, and then another food it will be vice versa. Right, and this one size fits all approach is complete and other nonsense when it comes to nutrition.

Yeah, that's right, And it's not just the food, but how you put the food together on the plate, and then what you do after eating it or what have you done before eating it? And then sometimes even when you haven't even eaten, what's your codisol levels, like adrenaline levels, like you learn all sorts of great things around your whole you know, psychology and everything.

Yeah, that's right, And it's not just the food, but how you put the food together on the plate, and then what you do after eating it or what have you done before eating it? And then sometimes even when you haven't even eaten, what's your codisol levels, like adrenaline levels, like you learn all sorts of great things around your whole you know, psychology and everything.

Yeah, and that what you do after you eat as well, and the mix of stuff, right, having protein, having fat with it really reduces the big spike. Having some citrus, but even just going for a walk after dinner as a profound effect on people's bloodluoks. I mean, if I was bizarre at the universe, I would make everybody go for a walk after dinner.

Yeah, and that what you do after you eat as well, and the mix of stuff, right, having protein, having fat with it really reduces the big spike. Having some citrus, but even just going for a walk after dinner as a profound effect on people's bloodluoks. I mean, if I was bizarre at the universe, I would make everybody go for a walk after dinner.

If you was the universe call, we would all be unbreakable and the world would be completely different.

If you was the universe call, we would all be unbreakable and the world would be completely different.

And I want to have a.

And I want to have a.

Job, No, well I would I wouldn't have a job, and I'd be delighted.

Job, No, well I would I wouldn't have a job, and I'd be delighted.

So we know if you have metabolic syndrome, your risk of cardiovascar disease, tattoo diabetes, non alcoholic fat delivered disease, chronic kidney disease, PCOS, sleepop near cancerus, dementia, that it all goes through the roof. And and that's really the crux of the issue, isn't it. It's metabolism gone role for people.

So we know if you have metabolic syndrome, your risk of cardiovascar disease, tattoo diabetes, non alcoholic fat delivered disease, chronic kidney disease, PCOS, sleepop near cancerus, dementia, that it all goes through the roof. And and that's really the crux of the issue, isn't it. It's metabolism gone role for people.

Yes, And what's underlying the metabolism gone wrong is the metabolic pathways, of course, and what determines the metabolic pathways is the mitochondria.

Yes, And what's underlying the metabolism gone wrong is the metabolic pathways, of course, and what determines the metabolic pathways is the mitochondria.

And that's why I asked.

And that's why I asked.

The almost twenty years of nutritional integrated medicine, I've landed squarely on the mitochondria. I mean, I've been following the whole mitochondry story for about over ten years and.

The almost twenty years of nutritional integrated medicine, I've landed squarely on the mitochondria. I mean, I've been following the whole mitochondry story for about over ten years and.

Really is seeking more and more answers for the sick.

Really is seeking more and more answers for the sick.

There's very complex, very unnamable chronic neurological, weird illnesses, and you have to come down to really, in the end what works in the patients.

There's very complex, very unnamable chronic neurological, weird illnesses, and you have to come down to really, in the end what works in the patients.

And I find that that's where one has to go to.

And I find that that's where one has to go to.

So why your interests, I mean, you've been interested in the mitochondry much longer than me. I've come to probably in the last five years and then just realized by critical it is. So can we talk about just for the lay people who might even not know what mitochondria is, give us a bit of a definition, and then just give us a sense of what mitochondria do in the body, how wide bread they are, you know, how they're involved in your overall health spoostigical or mental.

So why your interests, I mean, you've been interested in the mitochondry much longer than me. I've come to probably in the last five years and then just realized by critical it is. So can we talk about just for the lay people who might even not know what mitochondria is, give us a bit of a definition, and then just give us a sense of what mitochondria do in the body, how wide bread they are, you know, how they're involved in your overall health spoostigical or mental.

Okay, so I mean starting at the beginning, just from a cell biology perspective, Mitochondria are little mini structures, so organelles, mini organelles inside the cell, like one hundred to a thousand of them, depending on what kind of cell you are, a nerve cell, a brain cell, a muscle cell, or bone cell, whatever. So the number of mitochondria depends on what the function is of that cell, and the more energy that cell needs, a more mi chondria there are, so that would be all the neurons, all the muscles. That's where we have got most mitochondria because they can never stop, like your heart never stops, your brain never stops, you know, when you sleep, it's all still pumping around, working away. So the mitochondria typic we've all learned it as they are the organelles that make energy for the cell. And the terminology that being used for a long time is mitochondria are powerhouses of the cell and they power up everything.

Okay, so I mean starting at the beginning, just from a cell biology perspective, Mitochondria are little mini structures, so organelles, mini organelles inside the cell, like one hundred to a thousand of them, depending on what kind of cell you are, a nerve cell, a brain cell, a muscle cell, or bone cell, whatever. So the number of mitochondria depends on what the function is of that cell, and the more energy that cell needs, a more mi chondria there are, so that would be all the neurons, all the muscles. That's where we have got most mitochondria because they can never stop, like your heart never stops, your brain never stops, you know, when you sleep, it's all still pumping around, working away. So the mitochondria typic we've all learned it as they are the organelles that make energy for the cell. And the terminology that being used for a long time is mitochondria are powerhouses of the cell and they power up everything.

And that really is true.

And that really is true.

But in my talk I was just trying to bring a bit of a nuance in that it's not just they're not just pumping out energy because we need more energy, we want more energy. The nuances that we actually also have to do things to feed the energy, like create create the whole environment, the whole landscape. That the mitochondria make energy very fluidly and just very naturally rather than like we're trying to squeeze out this energy. So that my TOD wanted to bring more nuance because it was a group of doctors and integrative practitioners and we all know that you know, we've given supplements for mitochondrial energy blah blah. But so we'll come to the more nuanced later. But back to the basics of mitochondria. So they are in fact processing energy, and they're like a battery of the cell, and like batteries as positive negative charge, they hold the charge and it's like a capacitor that you know that gives you energy. And mitochondria have their own genes, So that's also a newer level of discussion around mitochondria, not just that they make energy, but they've got their own genes.

But in my talk I was just trying to bring a bit of a nuance in that it's not just they're not just pumping out energy because we need more energy, we want more energy. The nuances that we actually also have to do things to feed the energy, like create create the whole environment, the whole landscape. That the mitochondria make energy very fluidly and just very naturally rather than like we're trying to squeeze out this energy. So that my TOD wanted to bring more nuance because it was a group of doctors and integrative practitioners and we all know that you know, we've given supplements for mitochondrial energy blah blah. But so we'll come to the more nuanced later. But back to the basics of mitochondria. So they are in fact processing energy, and they're like a battery of the cell, and like batteries as positive negative charge, they hold the charge and it's like a capacitor that you know that gives you energy. And mitochondria have their own genes, So that's also a newer level of discussion around mitochondria, not just that they make energy, but they've got their own genes.

They've got thirty seven genes. Our our the rest of our cell.

They've got thirty seven genes. Our our the rest of our cell.

In the nucleus. Everybody knows we've got all our DNA. That's twenty zero genes in there, but the mitochondria have thirty seven genes and those g half of those genes make the most important energy producing like machinery proteins pathways for making energy. So if that doesn't work, the genes there aren't happy, which is the discussions on epigenetics.

In the nucleus. Everybody knows we've got all our DNA. That's twenty zero genes in there, but the mitochondria have thirty seven genes and those g half of those genes make the most important energy producing like machinery proteins pathways for making energy. So if that doesn't work, the genes there aren't happy, which is the discussions on epigenetics.

Like what are you what are you doing.

Like what are you what are you doing.

That alters your genetic function. So if you're doing things that your mitochondria genes and the epigenetics it's not too happy about what you're doing, then it's going to alter how much energy you are transducing through that mitochondria.

That alters your genetic function. So if you're doing things that your mitochondria genes and the epigenetics it's not too happy about what you're doing, then it's going to alter how much energy you are transducing through that mitochondria.

So that would be the basics that mitochondria.

So that would be the basics that mitochondria.

Are there to power up our biology, and why they do it is like amazingly complex with its evolutionary pathways. They're highly conserved. You know, you can't just they didn't just change.

Are there to power up our biology, and why they do it is like amazingly complex with its evolutionary pathways. They're highly conserved. You know, you can't just they didn't just change.

Over a few generations. They've been there like forever.

Over a few generations. They've been there like forever.

And then how it came about with prokaryotic cells and eukaryotic cells, so all that, like early life are genetics that comes from the work of Nick Laine.

And then how it came about with prokaryotic cells and eukaryotic cells, so all that, like early life are genetics that comes from the work of Nick Laine.

Yeah, these these cells that you just mentioned, there's some of the earliest life on Earth, right, So, yeah, the mitochondria have been around since there was life on Earth. Yeah that's that's pretty frigging important, isn't it.

Yeah, these these cells that you just mentioned, there's some of the earliest life on Earth, right, So, yeah, the mitochondria have been around since there was life on Earth. Yeah that's that's pretty frigging important, isn't it.

Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

So they've been around since there's been life on Earth because they just knew how to use oxygen. And life on Earth was about like sulfur and all those hot gases from the vents deep in the sea and then oxygen bubbling up and then how's life going to be formed? And somehow by magic, you know, these early life forms knew or found ways to use oxygen. So mitochondria need to use oxygen, that's its obligate function. But it doesn't use oxygen. It's just half asked, basically, like it's just creeping along and you end up in anaerobic metabolism, which when the cell just has basic energy through sugars and glycolysis, but not to really burning fat, not to really burning through oxygen, not making heaps more atp that energy currency in the cell.

So they've been around since there's been life on Earth because they just knew how to use oxygen. And life on Earth was about like sulfur and all those hot gases from the vents deep in the sea and then oxygen bubbling up and then how's life going to be formed? And somehow by magic, you know, these early life forms knew or found ways to use oxygen. So mitochondria need to use oxygen, that's its obligate function. But it doesn't use oxygen. It's just half asked, basically, like it's just creeping along and you end up in anaerobic metabolism, which when the cell just has basic energy through sugars and glycolysis, but not to really burning fat, not to really burning through oxygen, not making heaps more atp that energy currency in the cell.

Are there certain beheaviors lifestyle beheaviors that then ramp down the effectiveness of the mitochondria and switch us into that more anaerobic metabolism, And then what are the issues with that? Obviously, when we're exercising. If you're exercising intensely, right, then you're an anaerobic metabolism. But I'm talking just generally, what are some of the issues of the mitochondria not working well.

Are there certain beheaviors lifestyle beheaviors that then ramp down the effectiveness of the mitochondria and switch us into that more anaerobic metabolism, And then what are the issues with that? Obviously, when we're exercising. If you're exercising intensely, right, then you're an anaerobic metabolism. But I'm talking just generally, what are some of the issues of the mitochondria not working well.

It would be feeding it a lot of sugar, or just feeding the system sugar. If you just have simple glucose and you can just rely on glycolysis, and let's say that's not enough oxygen around. So let's say, well, broadly speaking, I suppose it would be breathing. Moving size definitely does play unto it quite split it apart. Yes, if you're exercising intensively, then you're going on anaerobic. But just the fact of blood moving, pumping, there's going to be oxygen flow, you're breathing, it's that whole movement of things. But if there isn't that and that's not moving up very well, and then there's just a lot of sugar and glucose, then you don't need to kick called a fatty acid, it's called beet oxidation pathways into gear. You could just be very lazy and rely on glucose and so it's a whole lifetime or years of doing that that you can just downtrain your metabolic pathways to not learn how to burn fat very well.

It would be feeding it a lot of sugar, or just feeding the system sugar. If you just have simple glucose and you can just rely on glycolysis, and let's say that's not enough oxygen around. So let's say, well, broadly speaking, I suppose it would be breathing. Moving size definitely does play unto it quite split it apart. Yes, if you're exercising intensively, then you're going on anaerobic. But just the fact of blood moving, pumping, there's going to be oxygen flow, you're breathing, it's that whole movement of things. But if there isn't that and that's not moving up very well, and then there's just a lot of sugar and glucose, then you don't need to kick called a fatty acid, it's called beet oxidation pathways into gear. You could just be very lazy and rely on glucose and so it's a whole lifetime or years of doing that that you can just downtrain your metabolic pathways to not learn how to burn fat very well.

I interviewed Professor Richard Johnson on the podcast. He produced a really interesting research paper around f choks and how frigtoks creates a metabolic crisis in the ma to chondria. And his research is really interesting because he was an anthropologist originally and he studied the Great Apes and he showed that the Great Apes millions of years ago had a genetical mutitian some of them were when they at fructose, they got fat and that was naturally selected for. And he's shown that basically it's to do with the urycase gene that every Homo sapient on the planet has the same version of the urycase gene, where we overconsole fructose and we create a metabolic crisis and we shut down energy production in the mitochondria. That then ramps up our hunger mechanisms and just basically shuts down your energy. Are you familiar with that stuff?

I interviewed Professor Richard Johnson on the podcast. He produced a really interesting research paper around f choks and how frigtoks creates a metabolic crisis in the ma to chondria. And his research is really interesting because he was an anthropologist originally and he studied the Great Apes and he showed that the Great Apes millions of years ago had a genetical mutitian some of them were when they at fructose, they got fat and that was naturally selected for. And he's shown that basically it's to do with the urycase gene that every Homo sapient on the planet has the same version of the urycase gene, where we overconsole fructose and we create a metabolic crisis and we shut down energy production in the mitochondria. That then ramps up our hunger mechanisms and just basically shuts down your energy. Are you familiar with that stuff?

I can't remember about all those pathways.

I can't remember about all those pathways.

I've heard them before, but.

I've heard them before, but.

I have Poi Poiol pathway. I think it was the Poio pathway from.

I have Poi Poiol pathway. I think it was the Poio pathway from.

Memory and when we eat fructose, you actually need to use more ATP to convert it to glucose before you can use it as energy. And so it was a bit of a misunderstanding to think that you could just eat heaps of fruit to get more energy. You are filling the liver up with more fatty liver, basically more glycogen, and then it takes more energy to get ATP from fructose than from glucose.

Memory and when we eat fructose, you actually need to use more ATP to convert it to glucose before you can use it as energy. And so it was a bit of a misunderstanding to think that you could just eat heaps of fruit to get more energy. You are filling the liver up with more fatty liver, basically more glycogen, and then it takes more energy to get ATP from fructose than from glucose.

Yeah, and so that's where the metabolic crisis comes. So, Chris Palmer, so I read his book recently about brain energy, which I'm presuming that you have read as well. I mean, that was pretty fascinating doing and it kind of makes sense right when I read it, I'm like, oh, duh, Holy of course, right, because as you said, and I never thought about this way, we know that is very very hungry energetically, right. It's like three to three percent of the year of body we have but uses twenty five to thirty percent of the energy. And it's the mitochondria that are pretty central to this. And he basically shown that very much every mental health conditional or more than mental health actually and brillant health issues are at least partly because of mitochondrial dysfunction. So talk us through that a little bit, like, how does that happen?

Yeah, and so that's where the metabolic crisis comes. So, Chris Palmer, so I read his book recently about brain energy, which I'm presuming that you have read as well. I mean, that was pretty fascinating doing and it kind of makes sense right when I read it, I'm like, oh, duh, Holy of course, right, because as you said, and I never thought about this way, we know that is very very hungry energetically, right. It's like three to three percent of the year of body we have but uses twenty five to thirty percent of the energy. And it's the mitochondria that are pretty central to this. And he basically shown that very much every mental health conditional or more than mental health actually and brillant health issues are at least partly because of mitochondrial dysfunction. So talk us through that a little bit, like, how does that happen?

I think when you say it's partly mitochondrial dysfunction, I would say partly because the picture is different than everyone. Why is someone parkinson, someone ms, someone als And so you might think, well, the mitochondria is partly at play because everyone is presenting differently. But I would say that the mitochondria is wholly fundamentally under aligning the neurophysiological inflammatory processes that haven't been able to be pulled back like they're full in force, because the mitochondria haven't got enough bio energetics behind it to pull back and to regulate. So I'd say that mitochondrial dysfunction is inside every neurological condition, neurinflammatory, autism, depression, schizophrenia, mental health, brain health. I mean I don't like saying mental health. I say brain health because it is. Yes, yeah, and so why does that happen? It's really the balance of mitochondrial mismatch. And that's the work put together by Robert Navio. So in about twenty eleven or twelve, he published his first set of papers on something called the cell danger response.

I think when you say it's partly mitochondrial dysfunction, I would say partly because the picture is different than everyone. Why is someone parkinson, someone ms, someone als And so you might think, well, the mitochondria is partly at play because everyone is presenting differently. But I would say that the mitochondria is wholly fundamentally under aligning the neurophysiological inflammatory processes that haven't been able to be pulled back like they're full in force, because the mitochondria haven't got enough bio energetics behind it to pull back and to regulate. So I'd say that mitochondrial dysfunction is inside every neurological condition, neurinflammatory, autism, depression, schizophrenia, mental health, brain health. I mean I don't like saying mental health. I say brain health because it is. Yes, yeah, and so why does that happen? It's really the balance of mitochondrial mismatch. And that's the work put together by Robert Navio. So in about twenty eleven or twelve, he published his first set of papers on something called the cell danger response.

Oh yes, yes, yes.

Oh yes, yes, yes.

Before that he was a see already a mitochondria researcher. He's a pediatric geneticist MD from the US. I think UCSD. And so the cell danger response is when the metabolic slash mitochondria pathways just cannot anymore handle all the information overload. So the information overload comes from those highly conserved metabolic mitochondrial pathways that have to deal with what evolved with us, which is what are the signals coming from attackers. So the attackers would usually be viruses, but can be bacteria as well. So in the Precambrian, you know, prokaryotic sea of life, it was just like viruses and mitochondria knew how to live with that, and they just had their ways of managing their their ions, their metal ions and ions. Catire is to save resources for themselves or they're being stolen by a virus or that they're fighting to keep that back. So the cell danger response is the mitochondria dealing with attack or the attack is not too bad. So he calls it peace time and wartime metabolism. So when we have wartime metabolism, we have viruses, we have bacteria and infections that are overwhelming the innate immune pathways. Which are set up by the mitochondria. Because some people would know, Okay, yeah, innate pathways when you have a virus, and then you get your first immune system response and then adaptive pathways and memory for later. Yes, yes, but at that very tiny cellular mitochondria level, it is the mitochondria that sets up the innate response for your immune system. And that is why, well, guess why the people who struggle with COVID where the diabetics and the metabolic syndromes and the OBEs and the hypertensives, and they already have mitochondria that are like limping along.

Before that he was a see already a mitochondria researcher. He's a pediatric geneticist MD from the US. I think UCSD. And so the cell danger response is when the metabolic slash mitochondria pathways just cannot anymore handle all the information overload. So the information overload comes from those highly conserved metabolic mitochondrial pathways that have to deal with what evolved with us, which is what are the signals coming from attackers. So the attackers would usually be viruses, but can be bacteria as well. So in the Precambrian, you know, prokaryotic sea of life, it was just like viruses and mitochondria knew how to live with that, and they just had their ways of managing their their ions, their metal ions and ions. Catire is to save resources for themselves or they're being stolen by a virus or that they're fighting to keep that back. So the cell danger response is the mitochondria dealing with attack or the attack is not too bad. So he calls it peace time and wartime metabolism. So when we have wartime metabolism, we have viruses, we have bacteria and infections that are overwhelming the innate immune pathways. Which are set up by the mitochondria. Because some people would know, Okay, yeah, innate pathways when you have a virus, and then you get your first immune system response and then adaptive pathways and memory for later. Yes, yes, but at that very tiny cellular mitochondria level, it is the mitochondria that sets up the innate response for your immune system. And that is why, well, guess why the people who struggle with COVID where the diabetics and the metabolic syndromes and the OBEs and the hypertensives, and they already have mitochondria that are like limping along.

Like yeah, interesting, So they've already got damaged mitochondria and then you have COVID and the cyberkine storm that goes with that. And it's because they've got weak, defenseless mitochondria that they get overwhelmed basically their immune systems.

Like yeah, interesting, So they've already got damaged mitochondria and then you have COVID and the cyberkine storm that goes with that. And it's because they've got weak, defenseless mitochondria that they get overwhelmed basically their immune systems.

Yeah, so the innate immunity is before the cytokine storm, So the cytokine storm will only unfold and not get balanced or pulled back if there isn't enough mitochondria resource and the cell danger response is too overwhelming.

Yeah, so the innate immunity is before the cytokine storm, So the cytokine storm will only unfold and not get balanced or pulled back if there isn't enough mitochondria resource and the cell danger response is too overwhelming.

So the cell danger.

So the cell danger.

Response would be fighting the external world of bad guys. But if nowadays the external.

Response would be fighting the external world of bad guys. But if nowadays the external.

World of bad guys is sure the glucose.

World of bad guys is sure the glucose.

For metabolic pop's from not enough muscle mass, too much other post tissue not exercising, blah blah, and then excess glucoses also taking away resources from the mitochondria. And then the last bit would be toxins. So in the Precambrian times, they probably didn't have toxins, but they had maybe natural toxins of you know, mercarine, too much sulfur or too much nitrogen, things like that. But today's world of toxins is a whole different story, right, Like we're totally overloaded with heavy metals, with ntocrine disrupting chemicals, with pfasts, like all those things are basically tying your mitochondria's hands behind their back and using up their resources. So then you end up having a system that just doesn't have enough power inside of itself to deal with what would be natural and normal to meet viruses that that's natural and normal, But then it's become unnatural and abnormal to have such a.

For metabolic pop's from not enough muscle mass, too much other post tissue not exercising, blah blah, and then excess glucoses also taking away resources from the mitochondria. And then the last bit would be toxins. So in the Precambrian times, they probably didn't have toxins, but they had maybe natural toxins of you know, mercarine, too much sulfur or too much nitrogen, things like that. But today's world of toxins is a whole different story, right, Like we're totally overloaded with heavy metals, with ntocrine disrupting chemicals, with pfasts, like all those things are basically tying your mitochondria's hands behind their back and using up their resources. So then you end up having a system that just doesn't have enough power inside of itself to deal with what would be natural and normal to meet viruses that that's natural and normal, But then it's become unnatural and abnormal to have such a.

Heavy toxic load and to eat the way we do.

Heavy toxic load and to eat the way we do.

And then you throw in a lack of physical activity and poor diet as well. And then what's happening and from a very simplistic perspective, if I just kind of pull back, is number one, your mitochondria getting overloaded from all of these toxic insults. But because of the lifestyle, your mitochondria really aren't well trained. Right. It's like having Dad's army who have just done no training whatsoever, and they're pretty weak and pathetic, and then you put them up against an army of different invaders, all coming from different directions. It's not hard to see now how everything gets overwhelmed. So when you add all of those different toxins and insults from the environment, the oxidat of stress, and then you know, we haven't be talked about out a post tissue and what happens without a post tissue from a metabolic perspective, because and particularly visceral fat, right, which is different completely, and then you're not exercising and you're having shared our slin yeah disaster.

And then you throw in a lack of physical activity and poor diet as well. And then what's happening and from a very simplistic perspective, if I just kind of pull back, is number one, your mitochondria getting overloaded from all of these toxic insults. But because of the lifestyle, your mitochondria really aren't well trained. Right. It's like having Dad's army who have just done no training whatsoever, and they're pretty weak and pathetic, and then you put them up against an army of different invaders, all coming from different directions. It's not hard to see now how everything gets overwhelmed. So when you add all of those different toxins and insults from the environment, the oxidat of stress, and then you know, we haven't be talked about out a post tissue and what happens without a post tissue from a metabolic perspective, because and particularly visceral fat, right, which is different completely, and then you're not exercising and you're having shared our slin yeah disaster.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you as a sports scientist, you know you want to talk about like myokinds and adipo kines, right, so that all the inflammatory kinds or signaling that comes from muscles and fat and so mitochondria have the same they have mitokinds. So mitokinds are the signaling of that cell danger response to say, okay, are we in wartime metabolism?

So you as a sports scientist, you know you want to talk about like myokinds and adipo kines, right, so that all the inflammatory kinds or signaling that comes from muscles and fat and so mitochondria have the same they have mitokinds. So mitokinds are the signaling of that cell danger response to say, okay, are we in wartime metabolism?

Do we have to put barriers up.

Do we have to put barriers up.

Around our boundaries other invaders coming in from the different countries, and they literally put barriers up around the boundaries, and that's what cell membranes do. So the mitochondria inside the cells will know that there's a fight coming. And then they're going to change the structure of the phospholipids of the cell membranes and they're going to change your signaling. And what they do is they release ATP not as energy, which is what we said earlier. ATP is typically known as the energy currency, but ATP is also are mitokind and ATP when it's produced.

Around our boundaries other invaders coming in from the different countries, and they literally put barriers up around the boundaries, and that's what cell membranes do. So the mitochondria inside the cells will know that there's a fight coming. And then they're going to change the structure of the phospholipids of the cell membranes and they're going to change your signaling. And what they do is they release ATP not as energy, which is what we said earlier. ATP is typically known as the energy currency, but ATP is also are mitokind and ATP when it's produced.

Outside of the cell.

Outside of the cell.

So inside the mitochondria they're producing ATP and that's energy. But then there's like, oh there's war, open your gates, get the armies outs, and all these signals. The ATP will come outside of the mitochondria, outside of the cell, and that is your equivalent of your adipokine and new miokines, and it's signaling danger.

So inside the mitochondria they're producing ATP and that's energy. But then there's like, oh there's war, open your gates, get the armies outs, and all these signals. The ATP will come outside of the mitochondria, outside of the cell, and that is your equivalent of your adipokine and new miokines, and it's signaling danger.

And then that's when then the you start to trigger off all that outside.

And then that's when then the you start to trigger off all that outside.

The kind storm and what's called the anal r P three inflammasomes.

The kind storm and what's called the anal r P three inflammasomes.

Right, okay, which then drives lots of different conditions right from a metabolic in the body to the breeding as well. Let's talk a little bit about mital hormesis, right, So my listeners will be pretty familiar with hormesis because they know I'm a big fan and you talked about hormeteris on mistige, which is why I'm like, where have you beat all my life?

Right, okay, which then drives lots of different conditions right from a metabolic in the body to the breeding as well. Let's talk a little bit about mital hormesis, right, So my listeners will be pretty familiar with hormesis because they know I'm a big fan and you talked about hormeteris on mistige, which is why I'm like, where have you beat all my life?

Right?

Right?

So talk to us about just you know, go anywhere with you walk with this, just around hormesis and then diving into mityal hormesis, what it is, why it's useful, all of these sorts of things. Just give us that primer on it.

So talk to us about just you know, go anywhere with you walk with this, just around hormesis and then diving into mityal hormesis, what it is, why it's useful, all of these sorts of things. Just give us that primer on it.

So homesis when I first learned that word would be in toxicology, and as an environmental physician, my background was learning a lot about toxicology, and homesis was that word that described that J shaped curve of the dose makes the response. So loadoses, okay, high dose could kill you. But then interestingly, you know there are other fields that were overlapping, like homeopathy, which is technically not scientific, you know, yes.

So homesis when I first learned that word would be in toxicology, and as an environmental physician, my background was learning a lot about toxicology, and homesis was that word that described that J shaped curve of the dose makes the response. So loadoses, okay, high dose could kill you. But then interestingly, you know there are other fields that were overlapping, like homeopathy, which is technically not scientific, you know, yes.

But that we technically woo woo.

But that we technically woo woo.

But when technically but from a home mesa's lens, they were showing that the dose makes a response as well, and that whether it's a physical low dose of a heavy metal or a plastic or radiation things that are you know, said to be bad for you in big doses, low doses did do something beneficial for the system.

But when technically but from a home mesa's lens, they were showing that the dose makes a response as well, and that whether it's a physical low dose of a heavy metal or a plastic or radiation things that are you know, said to be bad for you in big doses, low doses did do something beneficial for the system.

So the body had this.

So the body had this.

Adaptive response to learn to get a signal, learn something, and up regulate a pathway to deal with it. And if the dose is just right, then you learn that pathway to deal with it in a positive way that helps and supports biology and creates resiliendience. But if the dose is too high, then that's a J shaped curve that you fall off the other.

Adaptive response to learn to get a signal, learn something, and up regulate a pathway to deal with it. And if the dose is just right, then you learn that pathway to deal with it in a positive way that helps and supports biology and creates resiliendience. But if the dose is too high, then that's a J shaped curve that you fall off the other.

End that's not good for you.

End that's not good for you.

So homemesis from the very beginning was how I learned. It was all around exposure to toxicity. But then in the last decade it's very much being around bringing it into the longevity discussions and aging discussions, and then now mityl resilience, you know, bringing it into the discussion of psychobiology. So there's that maybe we'll come to this later mitochondrial psycho biology, which I love, but all different words for the same things that we love. So yeah, mityl resilience. The whole thesis.

So homemesis from the very beginning was how I learned. It was all around exposure to toxicity. But then in the last decade it's very much being around bringing it into the longevity discussions and aging discussions, and then now mityl resilience, you know, bringing it into the discussion of psychobiology. So there's that maybe we'll come to this later mitochondrial psycho biology, which I love, but all different words for the same things that we love. So yeah, mityl resilience. The whole thesis.

What was not very well.

What was not very well.

Understood, like why does wholemesis exist?

Understood, like why does wholemesis exist?

Like it was very strange. Nature does these things very strangely.

Like it was very strange. Nature does these things very strangely.

It's like, wow, that was what they observed but could never really explain it. But we are observing more and more of these pathways and understanding it more, and in the end, you know, it's like nature exists, but science is there to try and explain nature.

It's like, wow, that was what they observed but could never really explain it. But we are observing more and more of these pathways and understanding it more, and in the end, you know, it's like nature exists, but science is there to try and explain nature.

And can I just jump in with some real practical learnings from hormesis for people. It's kind of summed up by Frederick nietzchre right that which does not kill us makes us stronger, And he just forgot the brackets as long as you get the dose correct, right. So it was Edward Calibrizi, I think, was one of the first to discover it when he was a PhD student and he was giving levels of plant toxins what's the name of them, pesticides to plants and he was trying to work out what was the minimal effect of dose to kill a plant and he found you know, at certain doses the plant died, and then as he reduced it, the plant started to flourish and grew better than plants who hadn't had any poison. Effectively, that was where it kind of first I learned. But now we know British medical radiologists who were exposed to what they thought was dangerous levels of radiation in the sixties actually when they were followed up, had less cancer than their peers who weren't exposed to it. And there's a whole heap of things like Chernobyl accident recovery workers, not the ones who were in Chernobyl at the time of the nuclear leak, but the ones who went in to rescue them, and they thought, oh god, these guys got too much radiation. They're going to get cancer. They followed them up, they got less cancer than other workers who were the same basically the same as them, but who hadn't gone in to do the recovery so had not been exposed to the radiation. And so you know, exercises are hermetic, stress or cold hate, all of those sorts of things. So just I wanted to make gither that homies is a real world context for people right before we dive into the mito stuff.

And can I just jump in with some real practical learnings from hormesis for people. It's kind of summed up by Frederick nietzchre right that which does not kill us makes us stronger, And he just forgot the brackets as long as you get the dose correct, right. So it was Edward Calibrizi, I think, was one of the first to discover it when he was a PhD student and he was giving levels of plant toxins what's the name of them, pesticides to plants and he was trying to work out what was the minimal effect of dose to kill a plant and he found you know, at certain doses the plant died, and then as he reduced it, the plant started to flourish and grew better than plants who hadn't had any poison. Effectively, that was where it kind of first I learned. But now we know British medical radiologists who were exposed to what they thought was dangerous levels of radiation in the sixties actually when they were followed up, had less cancer than their peers who weren't exposed to it. And there's a whole heap of things like Chernobyl accident recovery workers, not the ones who were in Chernobyl at the time of the nuclear leak, but the ones who went in to rescue them, and they thought, oh god, these guys got too much radiation. They're going to get cancer. They followed them up, they got less cancer than other workers who were the same basically the same as them, but who hadn't gone in to do the recovery so had not been exposed to the radiation. And so you know, exercises are hermetic, stress or cold hate, all of those sorts of things. So just I wanted to make gither that homies is a real world context for people right before we dive into the mito stuff.

Yeah, no, that's fascinating what you shaid, thank you, that was yeah, just what doesn't kill you makes he's stronger. And so back to the mital resilience or mital homesis. It is a mitochondria's metabolic pathways that allows this amazing thing called homesis to actually unfold in a positive way to make you stronger and better and more adaptive and so on, and it is it is the foundation for adaptive medicine and adaptive medicine, you know, from the Russians.

Yeah, no, that's fascinating what you shaid, thank you, that was yeah, just what doesn't kill you makes he's stronger. And so back to the mital resilience or mital homesis. It is a mitochondria's metabolic pathways that allows this amazing thing called homesis to actually unfold in a positive way to make you stronger and better and more adaptive and so on, and it is it is the foundation for adaptive medicine and adaptive medicine, you know, from the Russians.

Oh, that's a.

Oh, that's a.

Nice term, adaptive medicine. That cool.

Nice term, adaptive medicine. That cool.

Yeah, so that the adaptive medicine really came originally from the Russians. Adaptive medicine is not used very much, but we've been using it more in our recent new practice and because it's really wanting to teach people to adapt better. But they, of course, you know, true to the Russians, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? And is ending up the fighter pilots with no cockpit and they're up in hypoxia, Like, why do you train these guys to survive hypoxia? Well, do hypoxic training? So hypoxic training, and probably in the spots where you probably know it's altitude training, it was like, that is seriously powerful adaptive medicine a plane. Why does it work because when you when you expose your mitochondria to what it evolved in, Like, mitochondria evolved through nature knowing how to deal with cold, how to deal with not enough oxygen. So when you expose yourself to not enough oxygen, there's just all these highly conserved pathways that go, oh, I remember that kicking kickin. Let's upregulate those oxygen using oxygen efficiency pathways, and then you get these incredibly strong mitochondria from regularly exposing and training yourself in hypoxia. So intermittent hyper training is one of my favorite amazing metabolic resilience training tools, not just in sports. There's a ton of research of it in sports and NASA and the Army and all of that, but there's now thankfully increasing research in what I deal with the chronic disease end of the spectrum with chronic fatigue syndromes, long COVID for sure, metabolic syndromes. It's good literature on like reversing metabolic disease Type two diabetes, Like if you catch it early enough and you just do HT intermiddent hypoxy training, you can actually reverse metabolic syndrome.

Yeah, so that the adaptive medicine really came originally from the Russians. Adaptive medicine is not used very much, but we've been using it more in our recent new practice and because it's really wanting to teach people to adapt better. But they, of course, you know, true to the Russians, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger? And is ending up the fighter pilots with no cockpit and they're up in hypoxia, Like, why do you train these guys to survive hypoxia? Well, do hypoxic training? So hypoxic training, and probably in the spots where you probably know it's altitude training, it was like, that is seriously powerful adaptive medicine a plane. Why does it work because when you when you expose your mitochondria to what it evolved in, Like, mitochondria evolved through nature knowing how to deal with cold, how to deal with not enough oxygen. So when you expose yourself to not enough oxygen, there's just all these highly conserved pathways that go, oh, I remember that kicking kickin. Let's upregulate those oxygen using oxygen efficiency pathways, and then you get these incredibly strong mitochondria from regularly exposing and training yourself in hypoxia. So intermittent hyper training is one of my favorite amazing metabolic resilience training tools, not just in sports. There's a ton of research of it in sports and NASA and the Army and all of that, but there's now thankfully increasing research in what I deal with the chronic disease end of the spectrum with chronic fatigue syndromes, long COVID for sure, metabolic syndromes. It's good literature on like reversing metabolic disease Type two diabetes, Like if you catch it early enough and you just do HT intermiddent hypoxy training, you can actually reverse metabolic syndrome.

Well, because you're then stimulating the mitochondria to adapt. Right, Yeah, I wanted to just you talked about conserves. You've mentioned a couple of times, just in case that word has slipped past our listeners. When you say conserved, you mean conserve devolutionarily, So it's been presenting for millions of years, right, So these are ancient cellular responses to mild stress that create adaptation that actually then benefits the host. Right, And that's the key thing.

Well, because you're then stimulating the mitochondria to adapt. Right, Yeah, I wanted to just you talked about conserves. You've mentioned a couple of times, just in case that word has slipped past our listeners. When you say conserved, you mean conserve devolutionarily, So it's been presenting for millions of years, right, So these are ancient cellular responses to mild stress that create adaptation that actually then benefits the host. Right, And that's the key thing.

That's the key thing.

That's the key thing.

And that's the key thing that Robert Navio was really highlighting in that in that whole new generation of mitochondrial discussions from ten years ago. It's these conserved Pathways's not just that they make u entity. There's these conserved pathways that have to be almost seen to understood where do they fit in? So then if you've got too much toxicity not enough nutrient load, then those conserved pathways take a different direction because that's how they are.

And that's the key thing that Robert Navio was really highlighting in that in that whole new generation of mitochondrial discussions from ten years ago. It's these conserved Pathways's not just that they make u entity. There's these conserved pathways that have to be almost seen to understood where do they fit in? So then if you've got too much toxicity not enough nutrient load, then those conserved pathways take a different direction because that's how they are.

That's how they are.

That's how they are.

Tell me this, how does I don't know if you've been experiencing this. But hyperbaric oxygen therapy does that play into mito horn? Miss? How are we talking a different pathway here?

Tell me this, how does I don't know if you've been experiencing this. But hyperbaric oxygen therapy does that play into mito horn? Miss? How are we talking a different pathway here?

It does play in and it probably plays in at a different level in terms of how strong you want to get, let's say, So it does play in that. Hyperbaric oxygen is considered a hormetic stress, so that is also you know, it's like, well if you think Goldielock's not too much, not too little, just right, But yeah, I mean you do want to do both.

It does play in and it probably plays in at a different level in terms of how strong you want to get, let's say, So it does play in that. Hyperbaric oxygen is considered a hormetic stress, so that is also you know, it's like, well if you think Goldielock's not too much, not too little, just right, But yeah, I mean you do want to do both.

So hyperbaric is a stress.

So hyperbaric is a stress.

And for other patient category where they are not well, there is you know, especially like tvis brain conditions, their redox pathways are not going very well, they're not recovering from exercise, things like that. Hyperbaric oxygen definitely is useful, has a role to play, and I love hyperbaric oxygen.

And for other patient category where they are not well, there is you know, especially like tvis brain conditions, their redox pathways are not going very well, they're not recovering from exercise, things like that. Hyperbaric oxygen definitely is useful, has a role to play, and I love hyperbaric oxygen.

I use it a lot in my patients.

I use it a lot in my patients.

But I would say that if I was an athlete, like I wasn't a sick patient.

But I would say that if I was an athlete, like I wasn't a sick patient.

Then I'll be doing IHT. So it's just the level of where is.

Then I'll be doing IHT. So it's just the level of where is.

Your training capacity at Your redox is pretty good and you're quite well, and you don't.

Your training capacity at Your redox is pretty good and you're quite well, and you don't.

Necessarily need hyperbaric.

Necessarily need hyperbaric.

Oxygen, which it's expensive, right, and.

Oxygen, which it's expensive, right, and.

It's a more passive thing.

It's a more passive thing.

It's not that expensive because it's becoming more popular now.

It's not that expensive because it's becoming more popular now.

But yeah, I mean whether it's eighty or.

But yeah, I mean whether it's eighty or.

One hundred and twenty dollars a session depending where you go, for sure, but intermittent hypoxic training is probably around the same cost or more depending on the systems that you use. But it's more that it's training to whether you want to call it a deeper level of getting deep into those metabolic pathways that can really be trained up and training you to DeFore deep bus higher level rather than passively helping you.

One hundred and twenty dollars a session depending where you go, for sure, but intermittent hypoxic training is probably around the same cost or more depending on the systems that you use. But it's more that it's training to whether you want to call it a deeper level of getting deep into those metabolic pathways that can really be trained up and training you to DeFore deep bus higher level rather than passively helping you.

Gotcha. So if you have some sort of chronic disease here spot and the hyperbaric oxygen, it can be more appropriate. But if you're functioning way out and you just want to function even better in terms of performance cellular and exercise performance, and the intermittent typoxia is the way. Is that what you're saying?

Gotcha. So if you have some sort of chronic disease here spot and the hyperbaric oxygen, it can be more appropriate. But if you're functioning way out and you just want to function even better in terms of performance cellular and exercise performance, and the intermittent typoxia is the way. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, it is.

I mean if I was an athlete, and I'm not really if I was an athlete, then I would do all that exercise that you do, and then I would I do i HT regularly and then I would recover with cold and I would recover with red light.

I mean if I was an athlete, and I'm not really if I was an athlete, then I would do all that exercise that you do, and then I would I do i HT regularly and then I would recover with cold and I would recover with red light.

Yes, I want to do you want to talk about red light, but before we get onto it, just because we're talking about oxygen, but so carbon dioxide, so intermittent exposure to higher levels of carbon dioxide also seems to be beneficial. Are you familiar with any of this stuff? Talk to talk us through this.

Yes, I want to do you want to talk about red light, but before we get onto it, just because we're talking about oxygen, but so carbon dioxide, so intermittent exposure to higher levels of carbon dioxide also seems to be beneficial. Are you familiar with any of this stuff? Talk to talk us through this.

Yes, I'm not sure about intermittent levels of carbon dioxide because the way I see it is, first, carbon dioxide needs to be at a particular level, or a minimal level, and when people drop below that level, then that's when we see problems. So the problems that are related, they're called they call a few different names. But some people call it hyperventilation syndrome. Some people call it hypocapnic syndrome. It's just low COEO two. So COEO two should sit probably anywhere between thirty five to forty millimeters of mercury.

Yes, I'm not sure about intermittent levels of carbon dioxide because the way I see it is, first, carbon dioxide needs to be at a particular level, or a minimal level, and when people drop below that level, then that's when we see problems. So the problems that are related, they're called they call a few different names. But some people call it hyperventilation syndrome. Some people call it hypocapnic syndrome. It's just low COEO two. So COEO two should sit probably anywhere between thirty five to forty millimeters of mercury.

But a lot of people are sitting at butty one birty two.

But a lot of people are sitting at butty one birty two.

And if you're not very good and that kind of breathing very fast, quite experiencing a lot of anxiety, maybe it's chronic pain. It's not like it's just psychological, it's just it's neurophysiological. To breathe faster, and to breathe more. When you're in pain, in discomfort, in distress, feeling some level of emotional whether it's abuse or trauma or whatever, people will just breathe faster. So then that COEO two will drop when you breathe faster, And when your CEO two drops, then you lose MITO resilience. You lose resilience overall of the neurophysiology. So then that the nerve there more twitchy. Because carbon dioxide is actually a new transit, gaseous new transmits as well, a bit like nitric oxide.

And if you're not very good and that kind of breathing very fast, quite experiencing a lot of anxiety, maybe it's chronic pain. It's not like it's just psychological, it's just it's neurophysiological. To breathe faster, and to breathe more. When you're in pain, in discomfort, in distress, feeling some level of emotional whether it's abuse or trauma or whatever, people will just breathe faster. So then that COEO two will drop when you breathe faster, And when your CEO two drops, then you lose MITO resilience. You lose resilience overall of the neurophysiology. So then that the nerve there more twitchy. Because carbon dioxide is actually a new transit, gaseous new transmits as well, a bit like nitric oxide.

Interesting, Yeah, so I'm talking about here deliberate hypercapnia. So carbon dioxide COEO too tolerance training like free divers, and some athletes now are doing too, and some amazing benefits from interest. So it's a harmetic stress or intermittent hypercapnia. And I know a couple of guys who train athletes and are getting them to do carbon dioxide tolerance training and actually getting really good increases in physical performance afterwards. And it's again it's this hormetic stressor that which does not kill you makes you stronger, but you get that wrong and you die.

Interesting, Yeah, so I'm talking about here deliberate hypercapnia. So carbon dioxide COEO too tolerance training like free divers, and some athletes now are doing too, and some amazing benefits from interest. So it's a harmetic stress or intermittent hypercapnia. And I know a couple of guys who train athletes and are getting them to do carbon dioxide tolerance training and actually getting really good increases in physical performance afterwards. And it's again it's this hormetic stressor that which does not kill you makes you stronger, but you get that wrong and you die.

Right, Yeah, Yeah, I loved read more about what the hypower capnia does just at the mitochondria level.

Right, Yeah, Yeah, I loved read more about what the hypower capnia does just at the mitochondria level.

I don't know, but I do.

I don't know, but I do.

I do know that from the it's a bit like you know, they call it well with mito resilience and psychophysical resilience. So it's like these three divers and people you're pointing to, they're already trained up at a particular level. You can be sure they do not experience high pole capnia. You can be sure their COE two is already super good. You can be sure they're really very good at breath holding in all of this. So they're already at a very optimized like reados mitochondrial sellar level. And because they've got that, they're really they're pulling in so much capacity of their mind, so their mind, the mind mitochondria, so they can pull in so much more like focus and training and pushing like major boundaries with.

I do know that from the it's a bit like you know, they call it well with mito resilience and psychophysical resilience. So it's like these three divers and people you're pointing to, they're already trained up at a particular level. You can be sure they do not experience high pole capnia. You can be sure their COE two is already super good. You can be sure they're really very good at breath holding in all of this. So they're already at a very optimized like reados mitochondrial sellar level. And because they've got that, they're really they're pulling in so much capacity of their mind, so their mind, the mind mitochondria, so they can pull in so much more like focus and training and pushing like major boundaries with.

Their mind and I wouldn't.

Their mind and I wouldn't.

And what can they do with the heart right variability and the fatal tone must be amazing and they'll be like the modern Yogis of the underworld, you know that's undersea world.

And what can they do with the heart right variability and the fatal tone must be amazing and they'll be like the modern Yogis of the underworld, you know that's undersea world.

Yeah, there's some there's some pretty cool stuff actually about carbon dioxide tolerance training. Are sorry your your carbon dioxide tolerance is actually predictive of success in special forces selection because it's a marker, a general marker of overall diychological distress tolerance, right, because it's freaking horrible doing that type of training. It's really psychologically, it's really tough as well, it's physically challenging everybody.

Yeah, there's some there's some pretty cool stuff actually about carbon dioxide tolerance training. Are sorry your your carbon dioxide tolerance is actually predictive of success in special forces selection because it's a marker, a general marker of overall diychological distress tolerance, right, because it's freaking horrible doing that type of training. It's really psychologically, it's really tough as well, it's physically challenging everybody.

So unfortunately that brings us to the end of Part one with doctor Cristabel and we have covered all the essentials of metabolic health and them particularly the role of the mitochondria.

So unfortunately that brings us to the end of Part one with doctor Cristabel and we have covered all the essentials of metabolic health and them particularly the role of the mitochondria.

Make sure you tune in next week where Crystabell goes through a whole range of practical strategies that we can do to enhance our mitochondrial health and therefore our overall health, including exercise, nutritional and light strategies. Catching expert

Make sure you tune in next week where Crystabell goes through a whole range of practical strategies that we can do to enhance our mitochondrial health and therefore our overall health, including exercise, nutritional and light strategies. Catching expert