My guest today is Dr. Michelle Segar.  She directs the University of Michigan’s Sport, Health, and Activity Research and Policy Center  and is the author of the critically acclaimed book, No Sweat: How the Simple Science of Motivation Can Bring You a Lifetime of Fitness. The book is being used as curriculum for nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, occupational therapists, physicians, personal trainers, and wellness coaches and was featured in The New York Times and became the #1 bestselling book in fitness & exercise on Amazon in 2015.

Here's what we discuss:

Start - The SHARP centre at the University of Michigan

2: 50 - The right and wrong 'Why' for exercise

5:37 - The role of Temporal Discounting in human behaviour

8:46 - An overview of Michelle's MAPS for lifelong exercise

11:57 - Exercise as a gift vs a chore

16:54 - Intensity of exercise

18:26 - OTMs - opportunities to move

24:06 -  The importance of self-care

27:57 - Strategy tips for creating lifelong exercise

My guest today is <a href='https://michellesegar.com/about/'>Dr. Michelle Segar</a>.  She directs the University of Michigan’s Sport, Health, and Activity Research and Policy Center  and is the author of the critically acclaimed book, <a href='https://michellesegar.com/book/'>No Sweat: How the Simple Science of Motivation Can Bring You a Lifetime of Fitness</a>. The book is being used as curriculum for nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists, occupational therapists, physicians, personal trainers, and wellness coaches and was featured in <a href='https://michellesegar.com/media/'>The New York Times</a> and became the #1 bestselling book in fitness &amp; exercise on Amazon in 2015. Here&apos;s what we discuss: Start - The SHARP centre at the University of Michigan 2: 50 - The right and wrong &apos;Why&apos; for exercise 5:37 - The role of Temporal Discounting in human behaviour 8:46 - An overview of Michelle&apos;s MAPS for lifelong exercise 11:57 - Exercise as a gift vs a chore 16:54 - Intensity of exercise 18:26 - OTMs - opportunities to move 24:06 -  The importance of self-care 27:57 - Strategy tips for creating lifelong exercise

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.

Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self. 

Host Dr Paul Taylor, a Psychophysiologist, Neuroscientist, Exercise Scientist, and Nutritionist interviews experts from around the world on cutting edge research and practices related to improving hardiness in your mind, body and brain to become your best self.&nbsp;

Finding your motivation for lifelong exercise with Dr. Michelle Segar

Most addiction advice is built for rock bottom. Tara Hurster says that misses the vast majority of people - the high-functioning drinkers, gamblers, and users who still have jobs, houses, and families, but know something is off. If you’ve ever wondered where “just a bit too much” becomes a real problem, this conversation gives you a clearer answer than shame ever could. Paul speaks with Tara Hurster, psychologist and founder of The TARA Clinic, about the low-to-high risk continuum of addiction, the 12 DSM criteria, and why “stopping” is not the same as changing. . Her approach is practical, non-judgmental, and built around helping people make real choices with real tools - not just white-knuckle their way through. Tara breaks down how tolerance, repeated failed attempts to cut down, negative consequences, and defensiveness can all signal a deeper issue, even when life still looks functional from the outside.

You’ll discover:
Why addiction can be invisible in high performers and professionals
How the stages of change model explains denial, preparation, action, and maintenance
The “stop you swap” trap and why focusing only on abstinence creates a void
Why relapse is better understood as recycling, and relapse as a lesson
How identity, values, and stress management drive the behaviours people keep repeating

 

Time Stamps

01:15 - Risk continuum and the question of where addiction begins
02:12 - The clearest signs: tolerance, failed attempts, and consequences
03:28 - Why questioning a behavior is already a signal worth taking seriously
04:23 - Stages of change and why defensiveness matters
05:34 - Why stopping is not the same as changing
06:32 - “If you stop, you swap” and finding the driver behind the behavior
08:34 - The myth that addiction only looks like rock bottom
09:49 - Only two DSM criteria are needed over 12 months
10:54 - Tara reads the DSM style addiction criteria in plain English
13:25 - Why The Tara Clinic uses the criteria as education, not self diagnosis
14:07 - Why Tara does not align with the 12 step model
15:29 - Tara’s personal story: bullying, tallness, and smoking in year six
17:02 - Why stopping smoking can coincide with a change stage, not just willpower
18:02 - Recovery as a long term redefinition of stress and distress
19:19 - How addiction looks from the outside versus the inside
20:56 - Minimizing the problem and the brain’s self protection mechanisms
21:27 - The brain’s threat response and why stress drives habitual behavior
24:41 - Being the expert in your own life and using lifestyle as a mirror
25:33 - Hello Sunday Morning and the power of noticing hangover regret
26:25 - Tara’s non prescriptive approach: helping clients see their own choices
27:06 - Why smart people often struggle more with change
28:22 - How education works in pre-contemplation without shame
29:25 - Why shame and guilt can push people backwards
30:21 - The survival wiring behind addictive behavior
31:50 - Early stage support and why community matters
32:35 - Preparation stage and why The Tara Clinic starts there
33:22 - The danger of stopping before change has actually happened
34:16 - Dry drunk thinking and the limits of willpower
35:47 - Real change means new routines, people, and environments
36:11 - Why lapse and relapse are reframed as lesson and recycling
37:35 - Can moderation work after addiction? Tara’s non absolute answer
38:14 - Choice, agency, and not becoming another external force
39:23 - Different substances and how the method of use changes the effect
42:22 - Why ice is the hardest substance to manage socially
43:26 - Ice detox, brain recovery, and the physical versus neurological timeline
45:23 - The recurring “wobbles” in recovery from ice use
47:32 - Why early recovery for ice effectively starts after a much longer practice period
48:43 - Common drivers: pressure, stress, identity, and relief
50:16 - Why Tara avoids labels and focuses on language, thought, and identity
53:57 - Values work and why goals and values are not the same thing
55:25 - Tara’s core values: justice, nonconformity, and safety
56:26 - Why value incongruence creates major stress in work and life
57:52 - Questions to ask yourself: have I questioned this, and what happens if I pause it?
59:37 - Reality pants, judgment pants, and honest behavior tracking
60:04 - How to track patterns in drinking and spot triggers
61:37 - Using patterns to find gaps in knowledge, skills, and awareness
62:32 - Where to go next: The Tara Clinic, Smart Recovery, and the ADIS phone line

Resources 

Website - https://www.thetaraclinic.com/

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarahurster/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetaraclinic/

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetaraclinic

SMART Recovery – https://smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au/

ADIS phone line: 1800 250 015 available 24/7

The National Alcohol & Other Drug Hotline is a free and confidential phone service that provides counselling, advice, and information for those struggling with addiction.  Call 1800 250 015.

 

Support the Podcast

If you found this conversation valuable, consider subscribing and leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you insightful discussions on important health topics.

 

 

Most addiction advice is built for rock bottom. Tara Hurster says that misses the vast majority of people - the high-functioning drinkers, gamblers, and users who still have jobs, houses, and families, but know something is off. If you&rsquo;ve ever wondered where &ldquo;just a bit too much&rdquo; becomes a real problem, this conversation gives you a clearer answer than shame ever could. Paul speaks with Tara Hurster, psychologist and founder of The TARA Clinic, about the low-to-high risk continuum of addiction, the 12 DSM criteria, and why &ldquo;stopping&rdquo; is not the same as changing. . Her approach is practical, non-judgmental, and built around helping people make real choices with real tools - not just white-knuckle their way through. Tara breaks down how tolerance, repeated failed attempts to cut down, negative consequences, and defensiveness can all signal a deeper issue, even when life still looks functional from the outside.
You&rsquo;ll discover:
<ul>
<li>Why addiction can be invisible in high performers and professionals</li>
<li>How the stages of change model explains denial, preparation, action, and maintenance</li>
<li>The &ldquo;stop you swap&rdquo; trap and why focusing only on abstinence creates a void</li>
<li>Why relapse is better understood as recycling, and relapse as a lesson</li>
<li>How identity, values, and stress management drive the behaviours people keep repeating</li>
</ul>
&nbsp;
Time Stamps
01:15 - Risk continuum and the question of where addiction begins 02:12 - The clearest signs: tolerance, failed attempts, and consequences 03:28 - Why questioning a behavior is already a signal worth taking seriously 04:23 - Stages of change and why defensiveness matters 05:34 - Why stopping is not the same as changing 06:32 - &ldquo;If you stop, you swap&rdquo; and finding the driver behind the behavior 08:34 - The myth that addiction only looks like rock bottom 09:49 - Only two DSM criteria are needed over 12 months 10:54 - Tara reads the DSM style addiction criteria in plain English 13:25 - Why The Tara Clinic uses the criteria as education, not self diagnosis 14:07 - Why Tara does not align with the 12 step model 15:29 - Tara&rsquo;s personal story: bullying, tallness, and smoking in year six 17:02 - Why stopping smoking can coincide with a change stage, not just willpower 18:02 - Recovery as a long term redefinition of stress and distress 19:19 - How addiction looks from the outside versus the inside 20:56 - Minimizing the problem and the brain&rsquo;s self protection mechanisms 21:27 - The brain&rsquo;s threat response and why stress drives habitual behavior 24:41 - Being the expert in your own life and using lifestyle as a mirror 25:33 - Hello Sunday Morning and the power of noticing hangover regret 26:25 - Tara&rsquo;s non prescriptive approach: helping clients see their own choices 27:06 - Why smart people often struggle more with change 28:22 - How education works in pre-contemplation without shame 29:25 - Why shame and guilt can push people backwards 30:21 - The survival wiring behind addictive behavior 31:50 - Early stage support and why community matters 32:35 - Preparation stage and why The Tara Clinic starts there 33:22 - The danger of stopping before change has actually happened 34:16 - Dry drunk thinking and the limits of willpower 35:47 - Real change means new routines, people, and environments 36:11 - Why lapse and relapse are reframed as lesson and recycling 37:35 - Can moderation work after addiction? Tara&rsquo;s non absolute answer 38:14 - Choice, agency, and not becoming another external force 39:23 - Different substances and how the method of use changes the effect 42:22 - Why ice is the hardest substance to manage socially 43:26 - Ice detox, brain recovery, and the physical versus neurological timeline 45:23 - The recurring &ldquo;wobbles&rdquo; in recovery from ice use 47:32 - Why early recovery for ice effectively starts after a much longer practice period 48:43 - Common drivers: pressure, stress, identity, and relief 50:16 - Why Tara avoids labels and focuses on language, thought, and identity 53:57 - Values work and why goals and values are not the same thing 55:25 - Tara&rsquo;s core values: justice, nonconformity, and safety 56:26 - Why value incongruence creates major stress in work and life 57:52 - Questions to ask yourself: have I questioned this, and what happens if I pause it? 59:37 - Reality pants, judgment pants, and honest behavior tracking 60:04 - How to track patterns in drinking and spot triggers 61:37 - Using patterns to find gaps in knowledge, skills, and awareness 62:32 - Where to go next: The Tara Clinic, Smart Recovery, and the ADIS phone line
Resources 
Website - <a href="https://www.thetaraclinic.com/">https://www.thetaraclinic.com/</a>
LinkedIn - <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarahurster/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/tarahurster/</a>
Instagram - <a href="https://www.instagram.com/thetaraclinic/">https://www.instagram.com/thetaraclinic/</a>
Facebook - <a href="https://www.facebook.com/thetaraclinic">https://www.facebook.com/thetaraclinic</a>
SMART Recovery &ndash; https://smartrecoveryaustralia.com.au/
ADIS phone line: 1800 250 015 available 24/7
The National Alcohol &amp; Other Drug Hotline is a free and confidential phone service that provides counselling, advice, and information for those struggling with addiction.&nbsp; Call 1800 250 015.
&nbsp;
Support the Podcast
If you found this conversation valuable, consider subscribing and leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us continue to bring you insightful discussions on important health topics.
&nbsp;
&nbsp;

The science of behaviour change and addiction, with Tara Hurster

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/192c2a64-48bf-43e7-8e09-b4ba006f1399/transcript

Stunning new research on the impact of exercise intensity on our biology: Wisdom Wednesdays

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/0997b4ac-25dd-413e-b741-b4ba00a3926d/transcript

This week Carly turns to something we all wrestle with, accepting our own human nature. She shares a personal example of what she's been struggling with lately, and the small shift in thinking that took the sting out of it.

Carly is a counsellor and coach who specialises in building psychological hardiness, which is the ability to navigate challenge, stay engaged, and take meaningful action under pressure. Her work integrates modern psychology with Eastern and Stoic approaches, helping people build resilience, live with purpose, and respond to life’s challenges with greater clarity, courage and steadiness.

 

This week Carly turns to something we all wrestle with, accepting our own human nature. She shares a personal example of what she's been struggling with lately, and the small shift in thinking that took the sting out of it.
Carly is a counsellor and coach who specialises in building psychological hardiness, which is the ability to navigate challenge, stay engaged, and take meaningful action under pressure. Her work integrates modern psychology with Eastern and Stoic approaches, helping people build resilience, live with purpose, and respond to life&rsquo;s challenges with greater clarity, courage and steadiness.
&nbsp;

The Best Stressed-Out Mum I Can Be With Carly Taylor

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/2fb3740d-3436-44af-8cc0-a91900716aa5/clips/045a1640-1f4c-4f16-a522-b4b0002ef0b2/transcript

Finding your motivation for lifelong exercise with Dr. Michelle Segar

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Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

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