There are many benefits to being an optimist - particularly when things go wrong in our lives. But we aren't all naturally optimistic, so can we learn to adopt the best and most positive behaviours of born optimists?

Through treating New Yorkers caught up in the 9/11 attacks, psychiatrist Dr Sue Varma developed a concept she calls "practical optimism". She shares her tips on how we can all be more optimistic in the face of life's challenges. 

Read more in Sue's book Practical Optimism: The Art, Science, and Practice of Exceptional Well-Being  

Dr Laurie spoke to Sue Varma MD at the 2025 World Happiness Summit. 

Get ad-free episodes to The Happiness Lab by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. 

Subscribe on Apple: apple.co/pushkin
Subscribe on Pushkin: pushkin.fm/plus

There are many benefits to being an optimist - particularly when things go wrong in our lives. But we aren't all naturally optimistic, so can we learn to adopt the best and most positive behaviours of born optimists?
Through treating New Yorkers caught up in the 9/11 attacks, psychiatrist Dr Sue Varma developed a concept she calls "practical optimism". She shares her tips on how we can all be more optimistic in the face of life's challenges.&nbsp;
Read more in Sue's book <a href="https://www.doctorsuevarma.com/book/">Practical Optimism: The Art, Science, and Practice of Exceptional Well-Being</a> &nbsp;
Dr Laurie spoke to Sue Varma MD at the 2025 <a href="https://wohasu.com/">World Happiness Summit</a>.&nbsp;
<hr>
Get ad-free episodes to The Happiness Lab by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or <a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">Pushkin.fm</a>. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows.&nbsp;
Subscribe on Apple: <a href="http://apple.co/pushkin">apple.co/pushkin</a> Subscribe on Pushkin:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">pushkin.fm/plus</a>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Can You Become a "Practical" Optimist?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/9b6fae09-6c74-49f4-9c91-b2c100d22e8b/transcript

As we move through our busy lives, it’s easy to stop noticing the tiny, beautiful things all around us. But rediscovering the sense of wonder we had as children might not only bring us more joy — it could also help us better navigate life’s hardest moments.

Dr. Laurie explores that idea with traveling philosopher and former NPR correspondent Eric Weiner, author of The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers. Eric shares what he’s learned from walking in the footsteps of Henry David Thoreau, including how the 19th-century philosopher can help us live better in the modern day and see beauty in the things we usually overlook.

Experts Mentioned:
Eric Weiner, journalist, author, and philosophical traveler 
Henry David Thoreau, 19th-century American philosopher, poet, environmental scientist, and political activist 
Socrates, ancient Greek philosopher 
Epicurus, ancient Greek philosopher
Arthur Schopenhauer, 19th-century German philosopher
Ralph Waldo Emerson, 19th-century essayist, poet, and philosopher
Confucius, ancient Chinese philosopher
Nathaniel Hawthorne, 19th-century American novelist and short-story writer
Leslie Perrin Wilson, author and former curator of the Special Collections at the Concord Free Public Library
Henry Miller, American novelist, short-story writer, and essayist

Resources Mentioned:
The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers, by Eric Weiner (2020)
Walden, by Henry David Thoreau (1854)
“Walking,” by Henry David Thoreau (1862)
Bhagavad Gita(second or first century BCE)
The Journal of Henry David Thoreau
“The playful mediator, moderator, or outcome? An integrative review of the roles of play and playfulness in adult-centered psychological interventions for mental health,” by Xiangyou Shen and Leland Masek (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2024)

Related Episodes:
“Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Confucius”
“The Science of Attention and Distraction”
“The Power of Awe… and Where to Find it”
“Sight and Sound: How to Joyfully Awaken Your Senses”

As we move through our busy lives, it&rsquo;s easy to stop noticing the tiny, beautiful things all around us. But rediscovering the sense of wonder we had as children might not only bring us more joy &mdash; it could also help us better navigate life&rsquo;s hardest moments.
Dr. Laurie explores that idea with traveling philosopher and former NPR correspondent <a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Eric Weiner</a>, author of <a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/books/the-socrates-express/" data-airgap-id="13">The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers</a>. Eric shares what he&rsquo;s learned from walking in the footsteps of Henry David Thoreau, including how the 19th-century philosopher can help us live better in the modern day and see beauty in the things we usually overlook.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/" data-airgap-id="14">Eric Weiner</a>, journalist, author, and philosophical traveler&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thoreau/" data-airgap-id="15">Henry David Thoreau</a>, 19th-century American philosopher, poet, environmental scientist, and political activist&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/socrates/" data-airgap-id="16">Socrates</a>, ancient Greek philosopher&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epicurus/" data-airgap-id="17">Epicurus</a>, ancient Greek philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schopenhauer/" data-airgap-id="18">Arthur Schopenhauer</a>, 19th-century German philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emerson/" data-airgap-id="19">Ralph Waldo Emerson</a>, 19th-century essayist, poet, and philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/confucius/" data-airgap-id="20">Confucius</a>, ancient Chinese philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/nathaniel-hawthorne" data-airgap-id="21">Nathaniel Hawthorne</a>, 19th-century American novelist and short-story writer</li>
<li><a href="https://concordlibrary.org/events/library-news/author-talk-leslie-wilson-former-curator-of-the-special-collections" data-airgap-id="22">Leslie Perrin Wilson</a>, author and former curator of the Special Collections at the Concord Free Public Library</li>
<li><a href="https://www.ndbooks.com/author/henry-miller/" data-airgap-id="23">Henry Miller</a>, American novelist, short-story writer, and essayist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z43RY5J?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="24">The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers</a>, by Eric Weiner (2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/205/205-h/205-h.htm" data-airgap-id="25">Walden</a>, by Henry David Thoreau (1854)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://faculty.washington.edu/timbillo/Readings%20and%20documents/Wilderness/Thoreau%20Walking.pdf" data-airgap-id="26">Walking</a>,&rdquo; by Henry David Thoreau (1862)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/index/" data-airgap-id="27">Bhagavad Gita</a> (second or first century BCE)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.walden.org/collection/journals/" data-airgap-id="28">The Journal of Henry David Thoreau</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17439760.2023.2288955" data-airgap-id="29">The playful mediator, moderator, or outcome? An integrative review of the roles of play and playfulness in adult-centered psychological interventions for mental health</a>,&rdquo; by Xiangyou Shen and Leland Masek (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2024)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-confucius" data-airgap-id="30">Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Confucius</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dial-d-for-distracted" data-airgap-id="31">The Science of Attention and Distraction</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-power-of-awe-and-where-to-find-it" data-airgap-id="32">The Power of Awe&hellip; and Where to Find it</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/sight-and-sound-how-to-joyfully-awaken-your-senses" data-airgap-id="33">Sight and Sound: How to Joyfully Awaken Your Senses</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Finding the Magic in Everyday Life with Thoreau and Eric Weiner

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/8ad77115-72d1-4faa-a4f1-b4d7013cf0aa/transcript

When we’re exhausted, overworked, or just going through a difficult time, our instinct is often to put our heads down and simply focus on getting through it. But those serious moments may actually be when we benefit from a little silliness and absurdity the most.

Laurie explores the science of humor with comedian Chris Duffy, host of How to Be a Better Human and author of the new book Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy. Chris shares what he’s learned about how to find humor in almost any situation — and how embracing the funny can improve our wellbeing in surprising ways.

Experts Mentioned:
Chris Duffy, comedian, author, and host of How to Be a Better Human
E. B. White, writer and essayist 
Mimi M.Y. Tse, Assistant Professor at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University
Ross Gay, poet, essayist, and Professor of English at Indiana University 
Annie Rauwerda, creator of “Depths of Wikipedia”
Aparna Nancherla, comedian and author
Greg Bryant, Professor of Communication at UCLA
Adam Mastroianni, experimental psychologist and author

Resources Mentioned:
Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy, by Chris Duffy (2026)
How to Be a Better Human, TED podcast hosted by Chris Duffy
“The impression management benefits of humorous self-disclosures: How humor influences perceptions of veracity,” by T. Bradford Bitterly and Maurice Schweitzer (Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 2019)
“The effect of a pratfall on increasing interpersonal attractiveness,” by Elliot Aronson, Ben Willerman, and Joanne Floyd (Human Learning and Thinking, 1966)
“Humor Therapy: Relieving Chronic Pain and Enhancing Happiness for Older Adults,” Mimi Tse, Anna Lo, Tracy Cheng, Eva Chan, Annie Chan, and Helena Chung (Journal of Aging Research, 2010)
The Book of Delights: Essays, by Ross Gay (2019)
Listers: A Glimpse Into Extreme Birdwatching, directed by Owen Reiser (2025)
“Depths of Wikipedia”
“Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one,” by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022) 
“The Perception of Spontaneous and Volitional Laughter Across 21 Societies,” by Greg Bryant et al. (Psychological Science, 2018)
“Neural substrates of spontaneous musical performance: an FMRI study of jazz improvisation,” by Charles Limb and Allen Braun (PLoS One, 2008)
“Good conversations have lots of doorknobs,” by Adam Mastroianni (Experimental History, 2022)

Related Episodes:
“Laurie Gets a Fun-tervention (Part One)”
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”
“How To Embrace Imperfection”

When we&rsquo;re exhausted, overworked, or just going through a difficult time, our instinct is often to put our heads down and simply focus on getting through it. But those serious moments may actually be when we benefit from a little silliness and absurdity the most.
Laurie explores the science of humor with comedian Chris Duffy, host of <a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="11">How to Be a Better Human</a> and author of the new book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Humor-Me-Laughing-Creative-Connected/dp/0385550685/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U6HrxtasiMFZl-Z8JpvC98-94qqVPQxzDb1VXcL9M7c5fOf8zZymTWg4Ho9yt1DN61us9x3oJOKQZ-CZihLcYkuI_BPtrdfGsFxEvhBMxPxogkgDNQgbOtwX_8cVAYCJ6rSn8vNI00MprtJAtYwbmgRZ6Y_QTp3X0oPUZnZvQ-0_EDP7n8ppTAQr37-fm7jsjK9NCkipTdeBHsFJhqH49GkO7NS-mWGkhuzdAmJ8GBk.oaCFX_taW-dAU0X5qIcS8OKtkzyMnSnn5hsEywsoskM&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=695427272296&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=7308670348439723714--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=7308670348439723714&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2292458302549&amp;hydadcr=15932_13557701&amp;keywords=humor+me+book&amp;mcid=0e7af600ef7237fc84b0f35efebc1931&amp;qid=1790173396&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="12">Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy</a>. Chris shares what he&rsquo;s learned about how to find humor in almost any situation &mdash; and how embracing the funny can improve our wellbeing in surprising ways.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1J3UhISUl9UK8gGzbTCvQ7c6BCRLiBsSjPF-JLMDGyWo/edit" data-airgap-id="13">Chris Duffy</a>, comedian, author, and host of <a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="14">How to Be a Better Human</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/02/books/eb-white-essayist-and-stylist-dies.html" data-airgap-id="15">E. B. White</a>, writer and essayist&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mimi-Tse" data-airgap-id="16">Mimi M.Y. Tse</a>, Assistant Professor at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.rossgay.net/about" data-airgap-id="17">Ross Gay</a>, poet, essayist, and Professor of English at Indiana University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://annierau.com/" data-airgap-id="18">Annie Rauwerda</a>, creator of &ldquo;<a href="https://www.depthsofwiki.com/" data-airgap-id="19">Depths of Wikipedia</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li><a href="https://aparnacomedy.com/" data-airgap-id="20">Aparna Nancherla</a>, comedian and author</li>
<li><a href="https://comm.ucla.edu/person/greg-bryant-2/" data-airgap-id="21">Greg Bryant</a>, Professor of Communication at UCLA</li>
<li><a href="https://www.adammastroianni.com/" data-airgap-id="22">Adam Mastroianni</a>, experimental psychologist and author</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Humor-Me-Laughing-Creative-Connected/dp/0385550685/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U6HrxtasiMFZl-Z8JpvC98-94qqVPQxzDb1VXcL9M7c5fOf8zZymTWg4Ho9yt1DN61us9x3oJOKQZ-CZihLcYkuI_BPtrdfGsFxEvhBMxPxogkgDNQgbOtwX_8cVAYCJ6rSn8vNI00MprtJAtYwbmgRZ6Y_QTp3X0oPUZnZvQ-0_EDP7n8ppTAQr37-fm7jsjK9NCkipTdeBHsFJhqH49GkO7NS-mWGkhuzdAmJ8GBk.oaCFX_taW-dAU0X5qIcS8OKtkzyMnSnn5hsEywsoskM&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=695427272296&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=7308670348439723714--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=7308670348439723714&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2292458302549&amp;hydadcr=15932_13557701&amp;keywords=humor+me+book&amp;mcid=0e7af600ef7237fc84b0f35efebc1931&amp;qid=1790173396&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="23">Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy</a>, by Chris Duffy (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="24">How to Be a Better Human</a>, TED podcast hosted by Chris Duffy</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749597817306325?via%3Dihub" data-airgap-id="25">The impression management benefits of humorous self-disclosures: How humor influences perceptions of veracity</a>,&rdquo; by T. Bradford Bitterly and Maurice Schweitzer (Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/BF03342263" data-airgap-id="26">The effect of a pratfall on increasing interpersonal attractiveness</a>,&rdquo; by Elliot Aronson, Ben Willerman, and Joanne Floyd (Human Learning and Thinking, 1966)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21151506/" data-airgap-id="27">Humor Therapy: Relieving Chronic Pain and Enhancing Happiness for Older Adults</a>,&rdquo; Mimi Tse, Anna Lo, Tracy Cheng, Eva Chan, Annie Chan, and Helena Chung (Journal of Aging Research, 2010)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1616207922?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">The Book of Delights: Essays</a>, by Ross Gay (2019)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt38023177/?_ssoLoop=1" data-airgap-id="29">Listers: A Glimpse Into Extreme Birdwatching</a>, directed by Owen Reiser (2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.depthsofwiki.com/" data-airgap-id="30">Depths of Wikipedia</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34618536/" data-airgap-id="31">Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one</a>,&rdquo; by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022)&nbsp;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30044711/" data-airgap-id="32">The Perception of Spontaneous and Volitional Laughter Across 21 Societies</a>,&rdquo; by Greg Bryant et al. (Psychological Science, 2018)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18301756/" data-airgap-id="33">Neural substrates of spontaneous musical performance: an FMRI study of jazz improvisation</a>,&rdquo; by Charles Limb and Allen Braun (PLoS One, 2008)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.experimental-history.com/p/good-conversations-have-lots-of-doorknobs" data-airgap-id="34">Good conversations have lots of doorknobs</a>,&rdquo; by Adam Mastroianni (Experimental History, 2022)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/laurie-gets-a-fun-tervention-part-one" data-airgap-id="35">Laurie Gets a Fun-tervention (Part One)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="36">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-embrace-imperfection" data-airgap-id="37">How To Embrace Imperfection</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Want More Joy? Try Taking Yourself Less Seriously with Comedian Chris Duffy

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/99fdd902-538a-4102-a69c-b4d00172d2be/transcript

Today we're sharing author Eric Zimmer’s interview with Dr. Laurie on The One You Feed podcast. 

In this episode, Dr. Laurie Santos discusses the importance of taking small steps to happiness and the science of mindful living. She reminds us that happiness is not a destination, but a practice. By understanding the science behind well-being and implementing small, consistent changes, we can learn how to apply these insights to our own lives to find greater joy and fulfillment.

Key Takeaways:
Embrace the power of small, consistent actions in shaping our happiness
Understand how our environment and social connections influence our behavior
Learn the common misconceptions about what truly makes us happy
Discover strategies for overcoming loneliness and building meaningful connections

If you like what you hear, find The One You Feed wherever you get podcasts.

Today we're sharing author Eric Zimmer&rsquo;s interview with Dr. Laurie on <a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/" data-airgap-id="11">The One You Feed</a> podcast.&nbsp;
In this episode, Dr. Laurie Santos discusses the importance of taking small steps to happiness and the science of mindful living. She reminds us that happiness is not a destination, but a practice. By understanding the science behind well-being and implementing small, consistent changes, we can learn how to apply these insights to our own lives to find greater joy and fulfillment.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li>Embrace the power of small, consistent actions in shaping our happiness</li>
<li>Understand how our environment and social connections influence our behavior</li>
<li>Learn the common misconceptions about what truly makes us happy</li>
<li>Discover strategies for overcoming loneliness and building meaningful connections</li>
</ul>
If you like what you hear, find The One You Feed wherever you get podcasts.

Small Steps to Happiness: The Science of Mindful Living with Laurie Santos | From The One You Feed

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/e89fe992-b9ce-41c1-8c5a-b4cf011fa7a4/transcript

Can You Become a "Practical" Optimist?

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