Never No Good. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Sports Illustrated. I Heart Radios The Bag with me Lindsay McCormick and my co host r Sean Jennings The Backs. It's the intersection of sports and business, delving into the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship and enterprise. Today, we have an amazing guest for you, one of my friends, Justin g and Grande, CEO of the network, advisory athlete manager with a specialization and marketing and n i L, and we brought him on to discuss the future of n i L. And with the college football season coming to a close, the transfer portal is going crazy and we wanted to pick his brain on it. So Justin, first of all, thank you so much for joining Rashad Night today and for taking the time. I know you're crazy busy right now. College football season's about to end and you've got a lot of transfers coming up. So for for those that don't know anything about the transfer portal, explain a little bit of of what that is. Yeah, imagine free agency in the NFL, uh, for all the players at all times. It's it's been a little bit chaotic. But yeah, what it really is is, you know, previously obviously players used to have to sit out a year um if they wanted to transfer. It. Well, the n c A made the chains where players can transfer much like coaches can change their job. With the institution of n i L happening at the same time, basically you have free agency where players you know, can think about if the team's the best fit for them, based on the depth charts, based on if it makes sense for them, based on if there's you know, candidate schools that have more resources to support them from a financial perspective. So um, It's what's interesting is that although we're kind of going into year two of n I L, this is really the first year from a transfer portal perspective where it's kind of a common thing. We saw a couple of players do it last year that we're pretty big in the headlines. You know, there's jordanais in a transfer from USC, I mean, from from pit to the USC. But what you're seeing now is that people have gotten more familiar and everyone understands the nuances. You're seeing such a such a you know, an amazing amount of players into the portal to basically figure out what the market is for them. Um, from a depth chart perspective and also from a financial perspective, I'm curious, Um, how is the market actually set for athletes because you know, they can enter into the portal. Maybe they're trying to maximize their dollar. They can enter into the portal because they're trying to find a better position for them the player. I can imagine it's hard for court college coaches to keep a really good QB two, um to back a QB one when they can enter into the portal and get paid and actually play right away. So what is the market for like a starting quarterback or starting running back? Or is it really still marinating this self up? No, I mean it's starting to get set. Um. I think version one point of n I L You know, it was just based on deals that were coming in, if that makes sense. It was just like, you know, could Bryce Young get Dr Pepper right? It was brand money. Then everyone kind of realized that schools that have collectives and boosters obviously have an ability to use those athletes for marketing, which basically you know, really created some sort of a free agency and almost a salary cap um. So I would say, through year one, it really wasn't set rashod like, there was no understanding. I think, you know, Canady, myself and a couple other people had a good feel for it, but it was really on the case by case basis and candidly at that point, how much a school really wanted someone. You're starting to see I still don't think we're even close to set, but you're starting to see where, you know, let's say a starting quarterback generally, you know, from a marketing perspective, that's somewhere between a million to all the way up to two point five or three million, if that makes sense, and you're a really star player. Um, now that's for someone that's played and shown as far as you know, running backs, uh, you know, running backs, much like the NFL, seemed to be not as valued as much, um just because it's it's common that way at this point. Um, you know, there is like a lot of just like the NFL, uh an emphasis also on skill positions college players, wide receivers really matter, so those seem to be going at a higher clip. But it also is also you know the biggest thing most times in the NFL, Right, we all know what the salary cap is and how much money NFL teams are. If you really think about it, each school kind of is creating their own there's no limit to it, right, It's how much money can you raise from donors and boosters and even brands and companies. So it's not exactly a perfect science. A kid might go to Auburn who you know, their collective is x or and he goes into a market, but the depth chart of Florida looks better for him. So even though let's say they're collective might not be as large, maybe it makes sense, or maybe a coach decides that, you know what, the money should go towards him because he's a bigger impact player for us. So it's starting to get set. But it's not a perfect science at this point because it's kind of still based on teams needs and also the other variables that I just said. What is the actual path money takes from boosters and supporters into these players hands, because universities still can't directly pay athletes, right, even if that is essentially what's happening. Yeah, I mean, the schools aren't paying the kids, you know, it's it is the collectives working, you know, hand in hand, I would say, let's just say, like, you know, everyone knows if a player was really good on the team last year. You know, boosters and collectives don't really get that wrong. They still understand if someone was a star player. So you know, I don't think it's as hard for I would say, the collectives to figure out who makes sense to be on the team. Um. Sure, other nuances, I'm sure between the two, the actual coaches and the collective. Sure, but I think it's pretty obvious to a lot of the players, um, and schools of like who really makes sense to put the marketing dollars before? But as I say, like, how how do they actually get paid? Like how does the money get into their hands? Um? Yeah, absolutely so how players actually what it is? It's it's a marketing agreement. Um. Where they sign up It could be anywhere from it could be anywhere from a one month agreement all the way up to a three year agreement. And uh, that all depends on where you are in your life cycle of your career. How it actually they get paid is the collective signs them up for their name and image likeness. There's a certain amount of deliverables, just like any other marketing deal. So okay, lindsay, we're gonna do an and I we'd like to sign Lindsey McCormick to you know, get the Bag Collective here, and you know what, for the next year, she's going to sign up and do two podcasts a month, she's going to tweet out that she's supporting it, she's gonna come and do a meet and greet, and so it's kind just like it is like in any other endorsement deal. It's all about really the deliverables. So there is a like we always hear the numbers, there is deliverables to negotiate here. Like you know, like at the end of the day, players time is money, right, Like they might say, hey, you have to go to three dinners with Booster, you know, with the collective, or you might have to do a meet and greet. So it's not just the total amount, it is also how much they're asking for you as well, because at the end of the day, these players do have to play. Question is there a cap how much a player can receive? There is not a cap, all right, So this is where it gets interesting, as I think there's going now there's no there's no public cap that we know of. Um, I guess if you really think about it, Jeff, Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. I mean, if you wanted to have a collective, I think there's an infinite fund. But as of right now, we don't know of what the cap is. So this is where it gets interesting. Obviously, I'm a proponent for any player getting paid. In a matter of fact, I hope he gets overpaid always and forever. However, um, with that, they're calling some troubles and that's where I'm trying to see where it could possibly come in some unfair play. If if you will so define in your best ability, what is a collective versus a booster? Yeah, I mean boosters used to be the term booster to My best recollection is that it was really a donor to the actual athletic department. Like you know, Bob who's a fan of Texas A and M actually donated to the University of Texas is sports department. I mean University of Texas A and M Sports department. Collective. Now there's five oh one C three's. There's also for profit collectives. Um, there's and this is all things that schools are at the collectives are all starting to figure out. Some are very different. Some are nonprofits where they're able to do it as a marketing expense, but then there's actually for profit businesses where in theory what they're doing is trying to basically sign in. You know, collective is a for profit business. It decides how much marketing expense it's gonna use towards Rasha Jennings, and then they take those assets that they get and in theory they do something with them. What we haven't seen yet is like, what are they doing with them right now? To be honest with you, it's been a lot of just to be your transparent it is has been a lot of just like dolling out the money. What I think is the opportunity is, look, people keep thinking it's kind of going to a dark hole. I think college sports is going to have a huge moment here. Like I think college sports, first of all, you have fans who really, if you think about it, there's more college fan fans than there are than NFL fans because most more people went to college and they're really passionate about it um And so I think we're gonna see college kind of turn into a mini pro league like long term. Um, I know Lindsay will talk about that later, that it's going to a twelve team playoff, But I think, you know what we haven't seen from the collectives yet, and I think whoever gets this right is going to be brilliant. How do you actually take the money you're giving to the players and get value from them? Is it documentaries? Is it podcasts? Is it creating n f T s that fan bases will actually pay for? Right now we're kind of seeing Version one was definitely like, hey, we just want to get kids. Version two is like, all right, well we want to get kids, but we kind of need to figure out, like this can't be just an endless supply of money. We've got to be able to get something back here that we can create a value. In theory, the collectives do want to create a system where it would be able to create itself like a profitable business. That's the goal. What about someone who's not a household name but a starter on defense for a Power five school. What's the gap between a linebacker and a star quarterback in terms of pay. That's a great question. Um, I would say that it really matters how important they are to their team. So let's just make this up. Both sophomore quarterback, sophomore defensive end who could be a pro prospect. Let's just make that up, right, And in theory they have the option. Let's just make this up. There's two players that are players in Michigan. One's a quarterback, one's defensive end. They're both stud sophomores. Right, school doesn't want to lose the team doesn't want to lose them. If you really think about it, what is their leverage? Their leverage to make sure that they're monetizing is that they in theory, could go into the transfer reportal. And in theory, if they go into transfer reportal other schools could make and their collectives could do endorsement deals with them that would make them want to go to the schools. Right. So the gap is really the perception of what that person's importance to the team. Uh. You know, if you have let's say run first team like Michigan UM and they don't prioritize the quarterback. In theory, they might not be willing to put a lot of money towards the quarterback. They might say that that defensive end is more important. UM. In general, I would say quarterbacks are more valued as an overall, like just from a natural but it's it's on a case by case basis. I would say it's depending on the school scheme. Who do you think has the largest bank account? What teams's gotta be down in Texas? You know what about Alabama? Um, No, to see Alabama. I think they've been Uh. I think they was doing it a different way. Um, you know, I don't know what way. But what do you think they do? You think you think? Well, it's just listen, have you ever been to Alabama? Have you ever been to the university. It's a terrible place. How can you recruit the best athletes in the world to come there? You know what I'm saying. So either way, I understand obviously, Nick Saban is, are you implying that there's n I L going on previous day and I'll actually being legal or shot? Is that what I'm not implying. We know all kinds of universities have been spending money. Now we just found a way to legalize it. Now, I'm not saying they did it illegal. I don't know. I'm not in there where we're we're going with n I l S, which I'm not against. It will start to become a mini pro gang because right like they already have agents. You can't call them agents. I'm sure. I'm sure there's another term manager. Um, you know, no, it is you're actually your influencers whatever. Yeah, you're actually referred to them as you know, because I am it's weird. You have to be registered as an agent. Like, so I'm technically a registered agent, so let me. Every state had their different rules, and to be honest with you, I think what happened is the n c A didn't think that they were got this was going to go through. So basically every single state had their own rules of who could do this. And then it was not only the state, each school was the school going to actually like do compliance on it where they gonna run. So my point is when you actually do register, I'm registered, and I say, I want to say, it's like six or seven states. You actually do have to get registered as an agent, and then all the deals still do go through compliance at this school, so they're not doing the deal, if that makes sense, but they are looking it over and making sure they're aware of it. So you said you're registered in six or seven states. How how did so in order to work with players, you have to be registered in that particular state. How did you decide on your six or seven states? That's a great question. Um, it's funny. And then you kind of have to guess where you think you're going to sign a player because you also have to pay fees to do this. So you know, to go register yourself in fifty states could be pretty expensive. You really wouldn't want to do that. UM. One, I'm registered in California too. I'm registered in Alabama. Three, I'm registered in Georgia. UM. Just finalizing Florida. UM. I did it because I also California, which has been interesting kind of we can talk about is not only their college n i L, but there's high school in I L. And you combine the two of them. That creates a very interesting dynamic as well. UM. You know the idea that high school players can monetize themselves even before they go go to college as well. UM I did it based on UM. I worked with Malakai, nel Side, McKay lemon, who are some top high schoolers, Ryan Pelham, um. And then just uh, you know people that I had relationships with that I was going to end up working. So I worked with the quarterback at your War Eagle, Robbie Ashford. So I needed to be registered in in uh in Auburn and Alabama and state Alabama. Quinn he Wars? Is that how you say his name? Quarterback in Texas? Okay? He obviously opted out his senior year. He had a deal at one point four million dollars as a high school athlete. I'm no hater, I'm clapping. Now. Do you think we'll see more situations where high school students sit out their senior year UM or even potentially their junior year because of a n I L deal and they do not want to ruin their opportunity to go to the collegiate level. Because right like it started off this way, some players and college did not want to play their senior year or go to senior bowls because they do not want to ruin a chance to get that bad. So now we're just seeing the same thing. As college becomes a mini pro. Now high schoolers will start treating it um as such. So do you think we'll see copycats of that? I think you're going to see a lot of junior quarterbacks magically reclassed to be seniors at the very end, like you just said, Um, what I'm learning through this process is just like the pros, college teams are always looking like who's their guy that next year? Like who is their quarterback? Like whether it's a current guy in the on the on the in the room, or it's a guy that they're bringing in. So you know, I'll give you an example. Um, I forget, there's a quarterback that just reclassified. I want to say it was the l s U quarterback. There was a quarterback that committed and when he committed, he also reclassed back up, so he basically he was old enough or they held him back and he had been acting as a junior, but he really was old enough to be a senior, so he reclassified and he's going to show up on campus in the class. As an example, I don't not forget if it's the l s U. I think what you're going to see a lot more of a shot is junior and senior quarterbacks. If they're old enough, they're gonna either skip their senior year like you're saying, or I don't know if they're going to sit it out other than just really skip it if that makes sense. Yeah, now, I totally understand that, and I wouldn't. I know, it's a lot of opinions on athletes and playing the game respectively, and you know, wanting them to focus on getting a degree, which they should, um have something to fall back on. I know as an athlete my plan B. What's an accomplished plan A? Right, But I did always have a plan. See so when it comes to education as paramount, however, now if you want to utilize your education, what do you utilize your education for? Utilize your education, you can maximize the dollar, both the dollars now in front of you. You You should use your education to max it out while you're playing for ball being which hencing why I applaud anybody that takes advantage of n I L. So with that being said, though, I'm curious because I feel like N I L. Right, if the high school and collegiate athlete are partaking in business deals and they have representation and marketing agents, so forth and so on, um, they have to pay a fee for them right in the league standard UM. Prior to the negotiations of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement standards for contract with three for agents UM to represent their client and then their marketing deal was you could always negotiate a little bit less. What are the numbers for percentage for N I L representation UM. So it's it's a couple of things. One the for the actual marketing endorses you're sourcing, not the collectives. If that makes sense, Like you're actually going to source opportunities just like you would as a pro. That's pretty standard. That's just like you would probably imagine, if that makes sense. The collectives are. Honestly, I can't put a number on it, to be honest with you. It kind of varies. Um, it really depends on the situation. I really can't put a number on it at this point. Is there arrange Yeah, I would say it's probably because because because yeah, my back it's probably north of ten percent still because it's it's there's a lot of variables going on here. We shot like there's a lot it's like a whole new terrain. It's not like a market set. You know, there's like a lot of as representing them. You kind of have to understand the landscape. You've got to go find the opportunity. You have to understand the deliverables with all of it. It's not it's a lot of work, to be honest with you, like not to say like I spent a lot of time the past year and a half, but learning a lot about the collectives, the rules, the nuances, kind of even educating both the parents and the kids and even ourselves and staying up to date. It takes a lot of time and effort. So it's still not standardized based on kind of what I said to you earlier, there's a lot of variables at play here. Like it's not again a salary cap where each school has a certain amount of money. It's like you're actually kind of going creating a marketplace for your athlete. UM. So you know, i'd still say it's it's north of ten percent, but you know, maybe it's it's kind of on a case by case basis. You know, has the kid being committed for three and a half years. Are you coming into just kind of negotiate Is it an open market where you're kind of creating from UM? I think I think chag going back to your point of this might turn into the NFL. I think there's going to be a world, what you know, long term where that happens. I think the biggest piece with that, though, is that no one knows who the regulating body of this is going to be like not to like no one, no one is fearful. Right. The moment of the NFL has an n f L p A right um some some formality at least, and even the league. But I think also something that I want to say about this is like, why is this happening? Youth is everything right now? Right over time, look at the growth of overtime, the content that happens on overtime, and the fan base. So what we're having happened here is a cultural moment. Everyone loved college sports anyway. The youth. Everyone's always obsessed with who's next, Right, everyone loves the idea of betting on what's next. Then that generation lives online. They understand content better than anyone. Right. So these superstars, you know, I'll talk about Malachi Nelson and McKay lemon, the kids that the eighteen year old guys that I represent, their going to USC. I mean there, it's crazy to go with them places. They have kids who like look up to them like they're Tom Brady as an example, because that's where they live. The kids live online, so they see them in overtime and Snapchat and all these places. It's and then I go back to it's a lot of pressure for those guys. You know, think about that pressure at eighteen rashod Like it's a lot you know, go ahead place, how do these spaces just like in Shock the whole time? So how do players like Malachi Nelson deal with all this new money? Well, they have financial advisors and you know, if they're really have good people around them, Like, this is what I've been trying to do. I've been trying to educate parents that this is all going to happen very fast, and you need to try to surround yourself with pros like professionals just like pros are. So what you're seeing is a lot of the wealth management and attorneys and people that represented pros the best in class are just starting to get into the space. Um. And again a lot of these kids also have obviously parents around them, so um, it's very very much that most of them are setting up LC's writing it off just like pros dig getting their loan out. Um. You know, I really need to be honest. All the clients I work with, they all have teams around them already. Um, because it's picked up that fast. That's a lot of pressure as a parent to have to educate yourself on all of these different aspects when your child is is of this sort of caliber athlete. I can't imagine being a parent of of an athlete and having to read up and hire make sure I hire the right people. But in terms of the opposite, how do you choose which high schoolers you want to work with? You know? I what here's what I like about this. I like the idea of working from someone from eighteen years old or seventeen years old, Like, what would it look like if you could have built Tom bra if Tom was able to monetize himself since he was seventeen years old? What would the Brady brand look like now? And for me, that's what gets me excited, is like the opportunity to kind of like be you know, go the distance with someone from a youthful age and really build their brand. It is a lot of pressure going back to the parents thing. Um. Eric Nelson, who's Malachi's dad, is amazing person. He's a pastor. He once said to me something funny he was in an interview. You know, it's pretty funny to be you know, his his dad and then the next minute he's his manager and he works for him and he reports didn't like if you really think, like, you know, reprimanding him, like you better be inside by you know, ten pm on the school night. The next thing, it's like, well, I'm working with you and I'm a manager, Like it's your decision, what do you want us to do. I'm part of your team. And that's a very crazy dichotomy, you know, it's it's and I think I think that's just something that just kind of sparked me. It's very interesting, that dynamic. I can't you know, I guess we all at this point we'll start hoping our kids we have that problem, we have that problem that a's sixteen to twenty there so remarkable that we're you know, starting to work for them. Yeah, I'm only assuming that, UM, a parent that takes the time with their children, UM, really ray is their kids in such a way that their authority is not based upun income. So because I could see a lot of head busting, you know, when a child makes more money than the parents and it's like, yo, I need you to be in a house at eight o'clock and do your homework. It's like, Mom, I made more money than both of you. I'm supporting y'all. You can't tell me nothing. So I think the parenting um of the relationship probably sets the authority way more in that case. How does it was just it was just announced in college football that in the year two thousand four, the college football playoff will be twelve teams. How how does that change the game from a financial standpoint? But for these young athletes and the amount of money they can make sure, it's it's that is also huge. That's huge. That for other schools, how do I say that the perennial powers have an opportunity? Now let me explain why. Okay, because of n I l so let's just make this up. I use Colorado as an example. Good, good school, been really good at times. You know, if you're a star recruit, you're if there's only four teams going to the national championship each year, and you really are your goals to win the national championship no matter how much Dion recruits you, and you have an offer from Alabama, Ohio, State, Texas, it's gonna be really hard until he builds that natural perennial power. But now you expanded eight more teams, right, so kids, um, you know, kids that ultimately, um, you know, kids that ultimately want a shot at the national championship. They really now can go to a broader base, which gives an opportunity for some of those schools that are kind of like mid tier to kind of go to the next level. I think if you didn't see teams expanded twelve, you really might just see those perennial powers just be so powerful that it would really create a dominant situation. I think it's going to kind of create some equilibrium, which is going to be good, um for everyone. I love it as a fan because it seems like it makes the playoff more fair and the teams that are standing in the end truly deserve to be there, they've really earned, rather than this guessing game of who should be one too, three and four. So from a fans perspective, I love it. Absolutely wonder that everyone feels like that. It makes everyone feel like they have a chance, you know, and that's good. I mean that that also is kind of the I will say it's also kind of the special part of college sports that It's like, man, if you lose one game, you're like sweat and bullets. But I think it's still going to give us that. I mean, look, teams ten through sixteen are going to be sweating if you really think about it, right, And all you're trying to do is get to that twalls spot and then we're in it and we're going to see some amazing things. But go ahead, rashot. Yeah, this is this is in my opinion, nothing but a financial decision to make money, right, because you're not doing it for the safety of the player. And I don't think any NFL teams want to make a one decision based upon one extra game one, you know in the playoffs, Oh we should draft him. I don't think that's how it's gonna work. So so the interest is legitimately, um, you know, teams in universities and sponsors and the relationships them financially winning we have a ballpark, and how much money will be earned based upon twelve extra twelve team. Yes, there's a four hundred and fifty million dollars made in growth revenue by expanding to twelve twelve team playoff. There's there's your answer that that literally there's the answer. Now, how much of this money? Right this is speculating, but how much of that money is going into the player's pocket. I don't know how good are the agents right now. We're gonna have to figure that out. I want to bring a full circle to Rashad's favorite topic again with the collectives. How do the deals work with the collectives. If let's say Malachi transfers from USC right now, he still get to keep the money. Well, that's a nuance of it, obviously, what he's earned to date. The players are allowed to keep that, you know, what they've earned to date. A lot of those contracts are set up either on a monthly basis. So, first of all, that's a great question, lindsay year, let's call it n I L one point. Oh, these contracts were being done in a year two year increments to where exactly? In theory, if you could be paying a player for who transfers, but if you signed an agreement with him and he's fulfilling the deliverables, you could be in breach. You're collective for a competing school compete in theory being breaches. Now, what's what schools are getting? Are collectives are getting? Smart. They're doing them in like quarterly segments, so it's like every four months they're gonna renew it. They're gonna try to if that makes sense. Um, but you know year one there was some missteps in that. Right guy does a big deal, Uh, you know, ends up getting injured, someone takes his spot. Next thing you know, he's now transferring out of that school. Wow. So it really cold the athletes accountable having to renew every four months. Yeah, justin this was so informative. I know you are extremely busy right now, and there's a lot of athletes that really turned to you during this time for guidance as we're wrapping up the into the college football season. So thank you for making time for us. Uh, there's so much I learned about portals that I didn't know and about the process of how these players get paid. So I feel like I RASHT and I both have a clearer understanding now of how it works and how it will work with the twelve the twelve team playoff system coming up in two thousand and twenty four. So thank you so much for your time, and thank you guys for listening to Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is the bag. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast dot dot dot dot dot

Never No Good. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Sports Illustrated. I Heart Radios The Bag with me Lindsay McCormick and my co host r Sean Jennings The Backs. It's the intersection of sports and business, delving into the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship and enterprise. Today, we have an amazing guest for you, one of my friends, Justin g and Grande, CEO of the network, advisory athlete manager with a specialization and marketing and n i L, and we brought him on to discuss the future of n i L. And with the college football season coming to a close, the transfer portal is going crazy and we wanted to pick his brain on it. So Justin, first of all, thank you so much for joining Rashad Night today and for taking the time. I know you're crazy busy right now. College football season's about to end and you've got a lot of transfers coming up. So for for those that don't know anything about the transfer portal, explain a little bit of of what that is. Yeah, imagine free agency in the NFL, uh, for all the players at all times. It's it's been a little bit chaotic. But yeah, what it really is is, you know, previously obviously players used to have to sit out a year um if they wanted to transfer. It. Well, the n c A made the chains where players can transfer much like coaches can change their job. With the institution of n i L happening at the same time, basically you have free agency where players you know, can think about if the team's the best fit for them, based on the depth charts, based on if it makes sense for them, based on if there's you know, candidate schools that have more resources to support them from a financial perspective. So um, It's what's interesting is that although we're kind of going into year two of n I L, this is really the first year from a transfer portal perspective where it's kind of a common thing. We saw a couple of players do it last year that we're pretty big in the headlines. You know, there's jordanais in a transfer from USC, I mean, from from pit to the USC. But what you're seeing now is that people have gotten more familiar and everyone understands the nuances. You're seeing such a such a you know, an amazing amount of players into the portal to basically figure out what the market is for them. Um, from a depth chart perspective and also from a financial perspective, I'm curious, Um, how is the market actually set for athletes because you know, they can enter into the portal. Maybe they're trying to maximize their dollar. They can enter into the portal because they're trying to find a better position for them the player. I can imagine it's hard for court college coaches to keep a really good QB two, um to back a QB one when they can enter into the portal and get paid and actually play right away. So what is the market for like a starting quarterback or starting running back? Or is it really still marinating this self up? No, I mean it's starting to get set. Um. I think version one point of n I L You know, it was just based on deals that were coming in, if that makes sense. It was just like, you know, could Bryce Young get Dr Pepper right? It was brand money. Then everyone kind of realized that schools that have collectives and boosters obviously have an ability to use those athletes for marketing, which basically you know, really created some sort of a free agency and almost a salary cap um. So I would say, through year one, it really wasn't set rashod like, there was no understanding. I think, you know, Canady, myself and a couple other people had a good feel for it, but it was really on the case by case basis and candidly at that point, how much a school really wanted someone. You're starting to see I still don't think we're even close to set, but you're starting to see where, you know, let's say a starting quarterback generally, you know, from a marketing perspective, that's somewhere between a million to all the way up to two point five or three million, if that makes sense, and you're a really star player. Um, now that's for someone that's played and shown as far as you know, running backs, uh, you know, running backs, much like the NFL, seemed to be not as valued as much, um just because it's it's common that way at this point. Um, you know, there is like a lot of just like the NFL, uh an emphasis also on skill positions college players, wide receivers really matter, so those seem to be going at a higher clip. But it also is also you know the biggest thing most times in the NFL, Right, we all know what the salary cap is and how much money NFL teams are. If you really think about it, each school kind of is creating their own there's no limit to it, right, It's how much money can you raise from donors and boosters and even brands and companies. So it's not exactly a perfect science. A kid might go to Auburn who you know, their collective is x or and he goes into a market, but the depth chart of Florida looks better for him. So even though let's say they're collective might not be as large, maybe it makes sense, or maybe a coach decides that, you know what, the money should go towards him because he's a bigger impact player for us. So it's starting to get set. But it's not a perfect science at this point because it's kind of still based on teams needs and also the other variables that I just said. What is the actual path money takes from boosters and supporters into these players hands, because universities still can't directly pay athletes, right, even if that is essentially what's happening. Yeah, I mean, the schools aren't paying the kids, you know, it's it is the collectives working, you know, hand in hand, I would say, let's just say, like, you know, everyone knows if a player was really good on the team last year. You know, boosters and collectives don't really get that wrong. They still understand if someone was a star player. So you know, I don't think it's as hard for I would say, the collectives to figure out who makes sense to be on the team. Um. Sure, other nuances, I'm sure between the two, the actual coaches and the collective. Sure, but I think it's pretty obvious to a lot of the players, um, and schools of like who really makes sense to put the marketing dollars before? But as I say, like, how how do they actually get paid? Like how does the money get into their hands? Um? Yeah, absolutely so how players actually what it is? It's it's a marketing agreement. Um. Where they sign up It could be anywhere from it could be anywhere from a one month agreement all the way up to a three year agreement. And uh, that all depends on where you are in your life cycle of your career. How it actually they get paid is the collective signs them up for their name and image likeness. There's a certain amount of deliverables, just like any other marketing deal. So okay, lindsay, we're gonna do an and I we'd like to sign Lindsey McCormick to you know, get the Bag Collective here, and you know what, for the next year, she's going to sign up and do two podcasts a month, she's going to tweet out that she's supporting it, she's gonna come and do a meet and greet, and so it's kind just like it is like in any other endorsement deal. It's all about really the deliverables. So there is a like we always hear the numbers, there is deliverables to negotiate here. Like you know, like at the end of the day, players time is money, right, Like they might say, hey, you have to go to three dinners with Booster, you know, with the collective, or you might have to do a meet and greet. So it's not just the total amount, it is also how much they're asking for you as well, because at the end of the day, these players do have to play. Question is there a cap how much a player can receive? There is not a cap, all right, So this is where it gets interesting, as I think there's going now there's no there's no public cap that we know of. Um, I guess if you really think about it, Jeff, Jeff Bezos is the richest man in the world. I mean, if you wanted to have a collective, I think there's an infinite fund. But as of right now, we don't know of what the cap is. So this is where it gets interesting. Obviously, I'm a proponent for any player getting paid. In a matter of fact, I hope he gets overpaid always and forever. However, um, with that, they're calling some troubles and that's where I'm trying to see where it could possibly come in some unfair play. If if you will so define in your best ability, what is a collective versus a booster? Yeah, I mean boosters used to be the term booster to My best recollection is that it was really a donor to the actual athletic department. Like you know, Bob who's a fan of Texas A and M actually donated to the University of Texas is sports department. I mean University of Texas A and M Sports department. Collective. Now there's five oh one C three's. There's also for profit collectives. Um, there's and this is all things that schools are at the collectives are all starting to figure out. Some are very different. Some are nonprofits where they're able to do it as a marketing expense, but then there's actually for profit businesses where in theory what they're doing is trying to basically sign in. You know, collective is a for profit business. It decides how much marketing expense it's gonna use towards Rasha Jennings, and then they take those assets that they get and in theory they do something with them. What we haven't seen yet is like, what are they doing with them right now? To be honest with you, it's been a lot of just to be your transparent it is has been a lot of just like dolling out the money. What I think is the opportunity is, look, people keep thinking it's kind of going to a dark hole. I think college sports is going to have a huge moment here. Like I think college sports, first of all, you have fans who really, if you think about it, there's more college fan fans than there are than NFL fans because most more people went to college and they're really passionate about it um And so I think we're gonna see college kind of turn into a mini pro league like long term. Um, I know Lindsay will talk about that later, that it's going to a twelve team playoff, But I think, you know what we haven't seen from the collectives yet, and I think whoever gets this right is going to be brilliant. How do you actually take the money you're giving to the players and get value from them? Is it documentaries? Is it podcasts? Is it creating n f T s that fan bases will actually pay for? Right now we're kind of seeing Version one was definitely like, hey, we just want to get kids. Version two is like, all right, well we want to get kids, but we kind of need to figure out, like this can't be just an endless supply of money. We've got to be able to get something back here that we can create a value. In theory, the collectives do want to create a system where it would be able to create itself like a profitable business. That's the goal. What about someone who's not a household name but a starter on defense for a Power five school. What's the gap between a linebacker and a star quarterback in terms of pay. That's a great question. Um, I would say that it really matters how important they are to their team. So let's just make this up. Both sophomore quarterback, sophomore defensive end who could be a pro prospect. Let's just make that up, right, And in theory they have the option. Let's just make this up. There's two players that are players in Michigan. One's a quarterback, one's defensive end. They're both stud sophomores. Right, school doesn't want to lose the team doesn't want to lose them. If you really think about it, what is their leverage? Their leverage to make sure that they're monetizing is that they in theory, could go into the transfer reportal. And in theory, if they go into transfer reportal other schools could make and their collectives could do endorsement deals with them that would make them want to go to the schools. Right. So the gap is really the perception of what that person's importance to the team. Uh. You know, if you have let's say run first team like Michigan UM and they don't prioritize the quarterback. In theory, they might not be willing to put a lot of money towards the quarterback. They might say that that defensive end is more important. UM. In general, I would say quarterbacks are more valued as an overall, like just from a natural but it's it's on a case by case basis. I would say it's depending on the school scheme. Who do you think has the largest bank account? What teams's gotta be down in Texas? You know what about Alabama? Um, No, to see Alabama. I think they've been Uh. I think they was doing it a different way. Um, you know, I don't know what way. But what do you think they do? You think you think? Well, it's just listen, have you ever been to Alabama? Have you ever been to the university. It's a terrible place. How can you recruit the best athletes in the world to come there? You know what I'm saying. So either way, I understand obviously, Nick Saban is, are you implying that there's n I L going on previous day and I'll actually being legal or shot? Is that what I'm not implying. We know all kinds of universities have been spending money. Now we just found a way to legalize it. Now, I'm not saying they did it illegal. I don't know. I'm not in there where we're we're going with n I l S, which I'm not against. It will start to become a mini pro gang because right like they already have agents. You can't call them agents. I'm sure. I'm sure there's another term manager. Um, you know, no, it is you're actually your influencers whatever. Yeah, you're actually referred to them as you know, because I am it's weird. You have to be registered as an agent. Like, so I'm technically a registered agent, so let me. Every state had their different rules, and to be honest with you, I think what happened is the n c A didn't think that they were got this was going to go through. So basically every single state had their own rules of who could do this. And then it was not only the state, each school was the school going to actually like do compliance on it where they gonna run. So my point is when you actually do register, I'm registered, and I say, I want to say, it's like six or seven states. You actually do have to get registered as an agent, and then all the deals still do go through compliance at this school, so they're not doing the deal, if that makes sense, but they are looking it over and making sure they're aware of it. So you said you're registered in six or seven states. How how did so in order to work with players, you have to be registered in that particular state. How did you decide on your six or seven states? That's a great question. Um, it's funny. And then you kind of have to guess where you think you're going to sign a player because you also have to pay fees to do this. So you know, to go register yourself in fifty states could be pretty expensive. You really wouldn't want to do that. UM. One, I'm registered in California too. I'm registered in Alabama. Three, I'm registered in Georgia. UM. Just finalizing Florida. UM. I did it because I also California, which has been interesting kind of we can talk about is not only their college n i L, but there's high school in I L. And you combine the two of them. That creates a very interesting dynamic as well. UM. You know the idea that high school players can monetize themselves even before they go go to college as well. UM I did it based on UM. I worked with Malakai, nel Side, McKay lemon, who are some top high schoolers, Ryan Pelham, um. And then just uh, you know people that I had relationships with that I was going to end up working. So I worked with the quarterback at your War Eagle, Robbie Ashford. So I needed to be registered in in uh in Auburn and Alabama and state Alabama. Quinn he Wars? Is that how you say his name? Quarterback in Texas? Okay? He obviously opted out his senior year. He had a deal at one point four million dollars as a high school athlete. I'm no hater, I'm clapping. Now. Do you think we'll see more situations where high school students sit out their senior year UM or even potentially their junior year because of a n I L deal and they do not want to ruin their opportunity to go to the collegiate level. Because right like it started off this way, some players and college did not want to play their senior year or go to senior bowls because they do not want to ruin a chance to get that bad. So now we're just seeing the same thing. As college becomes a mini pro. Now high schoolers will start treating it um as such. So do you think we'll see copycats of that? I think you're going to see a lot of junior quarterbacks magically reclassed to be seniors at the very end, like you just said, Um, what I'm learning through this process is just like the pros, college teams are always looking like who's their guy that next year? Like who is their quarterback? Like whether it's a current guy in the on the on the in the room, or it's a guy that they're bringing in. So you know, I'll give you an example. Um, I forget, there's a quarterback that just reclassified. I want to say it was the l s U quarterback. There was a quarterback that committed and when he committed, he also reclassed back up, so he basically he was old enough or they held him back and he had been acting as a junior, but he really was old enough to be a senior, so he reclassified and he's going to show up on campus in the class. As an example, I don't not forget if it's the l s U. I think what you're going to see a lot more of a shot is junior and senior quarterbacks. If they're old enough, they're gonna either skip their senior year like you're saying, or I don't know if they're going to sit it out other than just really skip it if that makes sense. Yeah, now, I totally understand that, and I wouldn't. I know, it's a lot of opinions on athletes and playing the game respectively, and you know, wanting them to focus on getting a degree, which they should, um have something to fall back on. I know as an athlete my plan B. What's an accomplished plan A? Right, But I did always have a plan. See so when it comes to education as paramount, however, now if you want to utilize your education, what do you utilize your education for? Utilize your education, you can maximize the dollar, both the dollars now in front of you. You You should use your education to max it out while you're playing for ball being which hencing why I applaud anybody that takes advantage of n I L. So with that being said, though, I'm curious because I feel like N I L. Right, if the high school and collegiate athlete are partaking in business deals and they have representation and marketing agents, so forth and so on, um, they have to pay a fee for them right in the league standard UM. Prior to the negotiations of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement standards for contract with three for agents UM to represent their client and then their marketing deal was you could always negotiate a little bit less. What are the numbers for percentage for N I L representation UM. So it's it's a couple of things. One the for the actual marketing endorses you're sourcing, not the collectives. If that makes sense, Like you're actually going to source opportunities just like you would as a pro. That's pretty standard. That's just like you would probably imagine, if that makes sense. The collectives are. Honestly, I can't put a number on it, to be honest with you. It kind of varies. Um, it really depends on the situation. I really can't put a number on it at this point. Is there arrange Yeah, I would say it's probably because because because yeah, my back it's probably north of ten percent still because it's it's there's a lot of variables going on here. We shot like there's a lot it's like a whole new terrain. It's not like a market set. You know, there's like a lot of as representing them. You kind of have to understand the landscape. You've got to go find the opportunity. You have to understand the deliverables with all of it. It's not it's a lot of work, to be honest with you, like not to say like I spent a lot of time the past year and a half, but learning a lot about the collectives, the rules, the nuances, kind of even educating both the parents and the kids and even ourselves and staying up to date. It takes a lot of time and effort. So it's still not standardized based on kind of what I said to you earlier, there's a lot of variables at play here. Like it's not again a salary cap where each school has a certain amount of money. It's like you're actually kind of going creating a marketplace for your athlete. UM. So you know, i'd still say it's it's north of ten percent, but you know, maybe it's it's kind of on a case by case basis. You know, has the kid being committed for three and a half years. Are you coming into just kind of negotiate Is it an open market where you're kind of creating from UM? I think I think chag going back to your point of this might turn into the NFL. I think there's going to be a world, what you know, long term where that happens. I think the biggest piece with that, though, is that no one knows who the regulating body of this is going to be like not to like no one, no one is fearful. Right. The moment of the NFL has an n f L p A right um some some formality at least, and even the league. But I think also something that I want to say about this is like, why is this happening? Youth is everything right now? Right over time, look at the growth of overtime, the content that happens on overtime, and the fan base. So what we're having happened here is a cultural moment. Everyone loved college sports anyway. The youth. Everyone's always obsessed with who's next, Right, everyone loves the idea of betting on what's next. Then that generation lives online. They understand content better than anyone. Right. So these superstars, you know, I'll talk about Malachi Nelson and McKay lemon, the kids that the eighteen year old guys that I represent, their going to USC. I mean there, it's crazy to go with them places. They have kids who like look up to them like they're Tom Brady as an example, because that's where they live. The kids live online, so they see them in overtime and Snapchat and all these places. It's and then I go back to it's a lot of pressure for those guys. You know, think about that pressure at eighteen rashod Like it's a lot you know, go ahead place, how do these spaces just like in Shock the whole time? So how do players like Malachi Nelson deal with all this new money? Well, they have financial advisors and you know, if they're really have good people around them, Like, this is what I've been trying to do. I've been trying to educate parents that this is all going to happen very fast, and you need to try to surround yourself with pros like professionals just like pros are. So what you're seeing is a lot of the wealth management and attorneys and people that represented pros the best in class are just starting to get into the space. Um. And again a lot of these kids also have obviously parents around them, so um, it's very very much that most of them are setting up LC's writing it off just like pros dig getting their loan out. Um. You know, I really need to be honest. All the clients I work with, they all have teams around them already. Um, because it's picked up that fast. That's a lot of pressure as a parent to have to educate yourself on all of these different aspects when your child is is of this sort of caliber athlete. I can't imagine being a parent of of an athlete and having to read up and hire make sure I hire the right people. But in terms of the opposite, how do you choose which high schoolers you want to work with? You know? I what here's what I like about this. I like the idea of working from someone from eighteen years old or seventeen years old, Like, what would it look like if you could have built Tom bra if Tom was able to monetize himself since he was seventeen years old? What would the Brady brand look like now? And for me, that's what gets me excited, is like the opportunity to kind of like be you know, go the distance with someone from a youthful age and really build their brand. It is a lot of pressure going back to the parents thing. Um. Eric Nelson, who's Malachi's dad, is amazing person. He's a pastor. He once said to me something funny he was in an interview. You know, it's pretty funny to be you know, his his dad and then the next minute he's his manager and he works for him and he reports didn't like if you really think, like, you know, reprimanding him, like you better be inside by you know, ten pm on the school night. The next thing, it's like, well, I'm working with you and I'm a manager, Like it's your decision, what do you want us to do. I'm part of your team. And that's a very crazy dichotomy, you know, it's it's and I think I think that's just something that just kind of sparked me. It's very interesting, that dynamic. I can't you know, I guess we all at this point we'll start hoping our kids we have that problem, we have that problem that a's sixteen to twenty there so remarkable that we're you know, starting to work for them. Yeah, I'm only assuming that, UM, a parent that takes the time with their children, UM, really ray is their kids in such a way that their authority is not based upun income. So because I could see a lot of head busting, you know, when a child makes more money than the parents and it's like, yo, I need you to be in a house at eight o'clock and do your homework. It's like, Mom, I made more money than both of you. I'm supporting y'all. You can't tell me nothing. So I think the parenting um of the relationship probably sets the authority way more in that case. How does it was just it was just announced in college football that in the year two thousand four, the college football playoff will be twelve teams. How how does that change the game from a financial standpoint? But for these young athletes and the amount of money they can make sure, it's it's that is also huge. That's huge. That for other schools, how do I say that the perennial powers have an opportunity? Now let me explain why. Okay, because of n I l so let's just make this up. I use Colorado as an example. Good, good school, been really good at times. You know, if you're a star recruit, you're if there's only four teams going to the national championship each year, and you really are your goals to win the national championship no matter how much Dion recruits you, and you have an offer from Alabama, Ohio, State, Texas, it's gonna be really hard until he builds that natural perennial power. But now you expanded eight more teams, right, so kids, um, you know, kids that ultimately, um, you know, kids that ultimately want a shot at the national championship. They really now can go to a broader base, which gives an opportunity for some of those schools that are kind of like mid tier to kind of go to the next level. I think if you didn't see teams expanded twelve, you really might just see those perennial powers just be so powerful that it would really create a dominant situation. I think it's going to kind of create some equilibrium, which is going to be good, um for everyone. I love it as a fan because it seems like it makes the playoff more fair and the teams that are standing in the end truly deserve to be there, they've really earned, rather than this guessing game of who should be one too, three and four. So from a fans perspective, I love it. Absolutely wonder that everyone feels like that. It makes everyone feel like they have a chance, you know, and that's good. I mean that that also is kind of the I will say it's also kind of the special part of college sports that It's like, man, if you lose one game, you're like sweat and bullets. But I think it's still going to give us that. I mean, look, teams ten through sixteen are going to be sweating if you really think about it, right, And all you're trying to do is get to that twalls spot and then we're in it and we're going to see some amazing things. But go ahead, rashot. Yeah, this is this is in my opinion, nothing but a financial decision to make money, right, because you're not doing it for the safety of the player. And I don't think any NFL teams want to make a one decision based upon one extra game one, you know in the playoffs, Oh we should draft him. I don't think that's how it's gonna work. So so the interest is legitimately, um, you know, teams in universities and sponsors and the relationships them financially winning we have a ballpark, and how much money will be earned based upon twelve extra twelve team. Yes, there's a four hundred and fifty million dollars made in growth revenue by expanding to twelve twelve team playoff. There's there's your answer that that literally there's the answer. Now, how much of this money? Right this is speculating, but how much of that money is going into the player's pocket. I don't know how good are the agents right now. We're gonna have to figure that out. I want to bring a full circle to Rashad's favorite topic again with the collectives. How do the deals work with the collectives. If let's say Malachi transfers from USC right now, he still get to keep the money. Well, that's a nuance of it, obviously, what he's earned to date. The players are allowed to keep that, you know, what they've earned to date. A lot of those contracts are set up either on a monthly basis. So, first of all, that's a great question, lindsay year, let's call it n I L one point. Oh, these contracts were being done in a year two year increments to where exactly? In theory, if you could be paying a player for who transfers, but if you signed an agreement with him and he's fulfilling the deliverables, you could be in breach. You're collective for a competing school compete in theory being breaches. Now, what's what schools are getting? Are collectives are getting? Smart. They're doing them in like quarterly segments, so it's like every four months they're gonna renew it. They're gonna try to if that makes sense. Um, but you know year one there was some missteps in that. Right guy does a big deal, Uh, you know, ends up getting injured, someone takes his spot. Next thing you know, he's now transferring out of that school. Wow. So it really cold the athletes accountable having to renew every four months. Yeah, justin this was so informative. I know you are extremely busy right now, and there's a lot of athletes that really turned to you during this time for guidance as we're wrapping up the into the college football season. So thank you for making time for us. Uh, there's so much I learned about portals that I didn't know and about the process of how these players get paid. So I feel like I RASHT and I both have a clearer understanding now of how it works and how it will work with the twelve the twelve team playoff system coming up in two thousand and twenty four. So thank you so much for your time, and thank you guys for listening to Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is the bag. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast dot dot dot dot dot