Never No, Never Big. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is The Bag with me, Lindsy mccorvick and my co host Rashaw Jennings. The Bag sits at the intersection of sports and business, delving into the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship, and enterprise. Later in the episode, today we have an amazing interview that Rashaw did with Cleveland Browns Tightened Pharaoh Brown and his journey in the NFL as an undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field with his wife. But before we get into that, rash there's so much news in sports in general right now. Uh. First of all, the MLB is planning on changing some of the rules of the game for next season, and they're planning on adding in a pitch a pitch like timer to where pictures only have x amount of time before they have to get the ball off, and they're really changing up the game. I think it's a ten second timer and then a fifteen second timer. But my question to you, as someone that has played in the NFL and has seen his share of rule changes, is how do you feel about messing with the rules of the game and the history of the game, just to I think an MLB, as we discussed prior to this, it seems like they are trying to attract a younger audience. And but do you feel like that's a good idea or do you think that they're gonna end up losing their old audience in in the process. Yeah. I mean some of some of the greatest philosophers have said the only thing that's constant has changed, right, So I understand changing changes coming along with sports. It's not only to life. So NBA, right, the three point line was not introduced until the nineteens at late nineteen seventies, I believe it nineteen seventy nine and eight season at the three point line was introduced, right, So that was a rule change, Like, wow, this is completely changing the game. Um. You know, players used to get fined for breaking rims that were important in time in the NBA, and then they changed the rules to get to have breakaway breakaway rims. Right. Then you look at football, Hans Ward uh created a whole new blonde blonde spot rule. Right, Hans Ward had had hit Keith Rivers and knocked this completely shattered his draw and he missed the rest of the season, and they actually changed their rule. Uh. Cowboys safety Roy Williams made the introduction of the horse collar in two thousand and five. You know that list goes on and on and on of so many players that have changed rules of games. Baseball, there isn't a necessarily player that's changing this rule. It's not for safety reasons, um, like most sports do. It's to try, it seems like, to try to enhance the game and viewership of people, not being as for um, you know, a lack of better word aboard. You know, they want to speed up the game. I personally absolutely love going to a baseball game and watching I think it's one of the greatest atmospheres to be in. I think these athletes are superior. Um. I cannot even come close to playing baseball at a high school level, much less collegiate and working my way up to the major leagues. I am awful. With that being said, I actually get to be purely and utterly nothing but a fan in which I am not. I'm not a fan of baseball because it's born to me. I love going to the game, I love experiencing it. With people that love the game because it's fun to watch them be soing through is but for me it is born. I don't think speeding up the speed count it's gonna make it all of a sudden fun right there. Their demographic is what their average is, fifty seven year old um individuals is watching the sport if you speed it up. I don't think my little nephew is gonna be like yo, baseball's fire now. I'm watching the minute they ain't got they only got a few seconds between pictures. I don't think that's gonna be the answer to game more fans. I actually think you may hinder losing what you already have. Uh, it's like trying to speed up fishing. Did you imagine about the fume putting out? The real really back? Like actually, some people enjoy that piece, just like speeding up yoga, Like what what do you mean speed up yoga? That is the whole point you're meditating? Like, I don't know. I think they're playing with some tricky waters there, but we'll see. I'll set back and uh enjoy the outcome either way. I I love watching the MLB playoffs. I love watching the NBA playoffs, Like there's something extra special when the players care and every theer seasons on the line after a very long season. But I'm with you. The only people I know that watch every single baseball game during the regular season are my dad, my father in law, like everyone in my life that is over the age of I guess sixty so. And there's something meditative about listening to a baseball game on the radio, which those individuals in my life love doing, as opposed to it being young and hip, and you're watching it on television with all the cool graphics and social media handles, and it doesn't seem that that's It seems like these rule changes are targeted towards that demographic, but yet they should be trying to preserve the audience they have, the ones that love the history of the game that I've watched the Yankees for decades and decades, and my grandma in St. Louis, who watched every single Cardinals game until the day she died. It was she, I mean, she didn't miss a game. And if they had sped up the the pitching timer, and I found the exact rules, so it's there will be a fifteen second timer with the base is empty and a twenty second timer with runners on base. I think it may add an element of competition between the players, and maybe it'll make the regular season more exciting for someone like me who's a fan that doesn't really watch every single game during the regular season, but definitely doesn't miss games during the postseason. But I think you might lose, you might lose some fans in the process. So I have I'm with you. I don't think it's a smart move, but I also don't really love change them tell a little change that much that listen. I think it's just it's, uh, we had to set wait and see, we'll see, we'll speak from it in hindsight, but I think this should be deferred. U two fans of the sport itself, and how much is gonna change how they view it? Who knows? It could uh you know for a new generation, new decade of um, you know, kids growing up. Maybe they appreciate the speed of the game more now. But I think you heard in a I think you heard in a traditional fan me too. So another topic that's been uh, very interesting is Aby has started in off the field this venture, and I'm actually curious how much money he's made in this off the field business venture of selling T shirts with Gazelle on it. What do you what do you think about this? Aby is, Uh, he's doing his thing. He he's being a b um. He has a T shirt out for sale with him. Um it looks like the shirt was from the celebration of winning the Super Bowl. Um, you know, hugging everybody, hug Giselle. And he's selling that shirt and he's trying to say he's raising money for fatherless kids in America, which, uh, you know, it's quite the irony of that for for him to do it, But I guess you know, I love that because still at the end of the day, I don't know how true it is, right, it could be a parody, but you know, what he's bringing attention is something that is very important, and that is fatherless children. But the way he's doing it, obviously, I don't know how many people are gonna take that serious. They're looking at the joke and um, the poke at Tom Brady going through a divorce. I A b is just being a b um. I think one of the things that b understands is that views equals currency, Attention equals currency. In today's market, um, and he knows how to get that. Speaking of currency, do you think that Tom Brady staying coming out of retirement and staying an extra season, do you think he's gonna end up losing money because of this, because it seems like he's really tanking his image and his name, image and likeness is not going to be worth the same amount after this season. Yeah, if it continues to go to the way that it is, um losing to the Stillers at one in four, then loser to the Panthers. I believe they were one in five, and Um obviously missing practices because he wants to go to weddings, missing eleven games issues me eleven practices during training camp, which is obviously instrumental to a football team. I get it. He's a veteran. He's going to do his thing. He Yeah, Tom Brady is great and all of that, but when you are the quarterback, it's not about You's about the team and the reason why Tom has been so successful looking at it from a distance and playing against him, never with them, Tom is successful because he's always there. I mean, he is the coach, he is the offensive coordinator with the football in his hand. So when he isn't there. Yeah he's fine, but the team isn't see Tom is not an insert he So if Tom was playing basketball, he would be the player that had to have the ball in his hands. Some players are really outstanding right in basketball, but when you pair them with other grades, it's like yo, it doesn't work because the game is ran through them at their old team, right. The game runs through Tom when he's on the team. So when you're a player that everybody has to uh maneuver around and adjust too, isn't there shows up sometimes and maybe he's not emotionally available, he's not you know, mentally available. It's gonna make a big difference. And so yeah Tom, uh Tom tripping right now, but you know everybody trips at some point. It's just he's on it the microscope, um and it is his is his turn to you know, dig himself out of a hole. I hope he does or his shake and for the team's sake, it seems like he has a very narrow focus in life right now. And he came out and said that he's never quitted anything, and he is not going to start by quitting this football season. But everyone else in America that's seeing the bigger picture is like, well, you're quitting on your marriage, you're quitting on your family. So you actually are quitting. It's something, and we're not viewing it as like, oh, what a role model. You're staying on your team and helping those guys. They're all gonna be fine, they're all getting paid, they're all gonna be fine. But your family may not be. Your kids may not be. And I think America really is seeing the bigger picture, which it's a good thing, but he clearly is not. You know, the funny thing about quitting, like you can look at that to push that a little bit on that look at it from the other um pendulum. He's not quitting his marriage. Um, maybe it's quitting him, I don't know. Or maybe he's not quitting from his family. Maybe uh, he's just not succeeding. J Quitting doesn't equal success, right, Sometimes you need to quit things. People need to quit doing drugs. Like quitting isn't a problem. What it is is not succeeding at the right things is the issue. Right, And so you know, in this situation, obviously Mo'm speaking from myself. I'm not married yet, look forward to being married I love marriage. I think it's the most beautiful gift, UM that that that one can have. UM. I don't want to wash my time talking about I think marriage is awesome. So you know, potentially, what Tom has maybe one two more years max right to play. And I can't say that the reason why he's getting divorces because he came back to sports. But though I did dinner did I did an interview back in like May, and people was like asking about Tom Brady coming out of retirement, what do you think? And I was like, hey, listen, to be honest, I think something's probably going on off the field or at home, maybe that he's not excited about. I didn't know it was this, right, I don't know Tom, but I say that to say this, two more years of being successful in sports where you've already had every acculated possible right versus potentially fifty more years of your life in a successful family and marriage. Which one do you? Which one have you been for? And then you got a three hundred million or like a three hundred million dollar contract you know for uh for commentating, setting setting there waiting for you once you're retire. That granted, it's not all the ways about the money, right, you want? Championships doesn't equal money, and I don't think Brady is money hungry. Obviously he's he's successful, his wife successful, his family said, everybody is good. From from a fun answer standpoint, I think Tom obviously loves a game, but there's only time can answer that. I only can speculate. But man, hindsight looking in from afar, which I'm not judging at all, I'm picking my marriage over over here, y'all. Yeah, yeah, it's straight up now, you know what in a perfect world for me, this is me selfishly right. Only can speak from my opinion, but I think one voice always represents millions. I would love to see Tom say, you know what, I quit football and I'm gonna go try to save my marriage. Man. I would support the everything out of that, and I think athletes and a lot of people would too. Now, granted, he doesn't have to live for us. It ain't about us. I am just behind the mic sharing my opinion in that's it. From a business standpoint, I think his life would thrive if he made that decision because he would likable again, not that he's I mean, it's a mixed it's a mixed feeling if you can, if you start to see what the media headlines looked like for him even a year ago when he came out of retirement versus now when you google Tom Brady, what you're seeing in the headlines, it seems like he would benefit financially and from a business standpoint if he made that decision to quit, because people would say, Okay, I have a little respect for him that he decided, you know what, I have done everything I can in the NFL and in my at my craft, and now I'm gonna go and prioritize my family, And I think that would make him more likable and therefore would get more business deals. People would watch his broadcasts, and from business standpoint, I think it's like a smart decision too. But I think Tom Brady, in order to be successful in the National Football League, you have to have discipline, integrity, you have to be a self motive. Later um, you have to be a great communicator. You have to be all of these things that garners success. There's no difference in your marriage, there's no different in your business ventures. So um, you know, Tom Brady obviously as the tangibilities to be successful in anything he focuses on, and um, you know it's just for me personally. Again, this is me personally. It would be an odd story for Tom Brady to win a super Bowl while he's going through a divorce. Yeah, it's just for me. It's just odd, But that's me personally where I put the premium of marriage over winning football games. It's a better work life balance and just a better view on life in general in my opinion. Anyways, you had a chance to speak to someone else who was it seems like he's making amazing decisions on and off the field. And it's clear and Brown's tightened. Pharaoh Brown, and you spoke to him about his journey in the NFL. Is an undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field with his wife. So it seems like he has a pretty good balanced work life balance. And I'm excited to hear this interview. So let's take a listen, Pharaoh Brown. My man appreciates your sliding through the bag for us. How you doing, I'm doing great, man, Thanks for having me. Yes, sir, yes, sir, so size wise your monster. I want to feel your monster, man, So to tell us how how you got into the NFL will give us a little bit of your background for anybody that may be hearing you for the very first time ever. Uh. Growing up, I played football, but then I kind of like switched the basketball because I was I was just that's just my height and everything. You know, everybody just wanted to be Hoopers back in the day. And Uh, I was in high school and the guy was like I was going to like little visits and my football coaches like he's like, man, you need to come play football. It's like my sophomore year, he was like, with your size at six seven, you will go to the league, just because he was like in basketball, you know, it's a toss up, like there's a lot of six heaven people. So he's like he basically, do you want to go to the NFL? Or like do you want to like for sure stemp and go pro or you know, uh keep messed around with football, like I mean with basketball, And I was like, I want to go pro, and uh, I switched over my junior year, I was playing the quarterback in defensive and and and then Chip Kelly came out. It was like, man, you were tight end and I was like all right, So like I never played tight in so so the next year, senior year I played, I switched the tight end, decommitted from Michigan, went to Oregon and that's how I kind of like jump started my career. That's crazy. So you you committed, what made you de commited with with different positions? It was different positions and you know, like when you're going through that process, man, those uh the Michigan coaches was like, oh, you can't take any business. It's kind of like you're married. And you know, I wanted to go check out Oregon when I was committed, you know, just weighing all my options, but uh, they didn't. They didn't kind of like that, and the head coach and came to my high school and you know, it was like why did you go while used to do this, and you know, I'm a kid. I'm like all right, Well, like I get five visits, I feel like you should I should be exported by options. So it was just kind of a little I didn't like how they handle that situation. Got you. I totally understand that, man. But that's funny. I've never heard the combination of somebody playing because I played both sides, play running back, you know, and play linebacker, kick punter like you do everything right. But I've never heard the combination of a quarterback turning around and going to play defensive. And that's a different one. So so I before we keep going, I gotta know, I played both sides of the ball, so it's a running back. One time I phone with the ball right, so boom, I'm mad. I'm automatically on defense. So I got a lot of amosity to go hunt down somebody. Have you ever thrown a pick? They got real piste off, you know, on defense and then go try to try to get to do the picture or something, because I I that's kind of energy I had in high school. Uh not really, I mean we was we was just we was read ob we was barely throwing the career. We were Uh, we was just running it, running the read. I was scrambling all around and uh but you never know picks, but I just should when I would get I would just know, like what the quarterback was doing. So I used to just go here everything. I love it, man, I love it. So fast forward us a little bit. Tell us about your NFL career. UM. It was the first team you played with, UM and he was undrafted, I do believe, right. So I was undrafted to the Raiders, and uh man, my career has just been a grinding the journey, and I kind of wouldn't change it. I mean, I'm in my six year and I haven't had the same coaching staff or the same position coach yet, you know, so every year it was like so much turn over. So as an undrafted guy, you're coming, You're like building with an old staff and they like you, and you know, uh, obviously it's being undrafted. You know, you're kind of on the bottom by the total post are You're working your way up, and then that coaching staff leave, you get a newes. So you just kind of started over every year, and really, you know, I learned the politics of the game, you know, I learned how to be a pro. My I went from Oakland to the raid I mean I went from the Raiders to the Browns, and then from the Browns, I went to the Texas and I'm back to the Browns. So I had three stops building those three stops, I had like six seven coaches changes. So I mean, you just kind of learned a lot through the through the journey and the the process as you know. So I mean it helped me be the product I m today. So man, keep doing that, man. So but take us out a little bit on your career path. I know you played with the Raiders. Wait wait, so how was your experience that? Did you play in the baseball field? Unfortunately? Okay, So we shared that in common, man, because when I was there, who played on the baseball field? They used to bring in? Did they bringing the tacos on Tuesdays to the facility? Yeah? For sure? Nice. And you're from Ohio, right, I from Cleveland. So you're from Cleveland and now you're playing with the Cleveland Browns. How how does that feel? Man? That's like a childhood dream. I feel like it's definitely surreal, like you know, passing that stadium when you're growing up and now you're playing in it, you know, and now like I'm like, first off, like that undrafted guy. You know. Now I'm back home. Everybody knows me, so I'm way more like you know, every I go in and wherevery like, oh that's that's fair, you know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like it's different here. You know, you're seeing everybody that you freaking you know, you go to the grocery store, or you played with Buddy and Mutt in the Pop Warner and high school. Now you're playing for the ProTeam and in Cleveland, it's not much to do. So everybody watching the Browns game, so you know, everybody got the opinion or what needs to be done and stuff. So you gotta go through all that. But I mean, it's definitely it's definitely a great being back. And so tell us a little bit about your wife's business. Understand that she has, uh, she has her own company. Yeah, she uh, she had had her she had started her business and uh when I was in college, so she was she wasn't living in Salt Lake City. Starts she was a nail technician and she kind of uh just found like you know, she had had she had had a rare eye cancer that she ended up beating and uh just kind of got like on the healthy thing and like figure starts seeing like how all the critic and all that stuff was basically like bad for bath, for the nail and all that good stuff. So she cured her own jail nail line and uh man din't on her own And when I got drafted, not drafted. When I went undrafted, you know, I always wanted her to have her own identity. So in the off seasons, you know, I would go back to Utah just so it was like in the season, it was like my time. But then in the off season, you know, we was going back to you talk of her time, and I was like, you know, I'll do I'll be to get to work out end and get right and get ready for the season. But I mean it's awesome just seeing their grind and uh seeing her like you know through COVID and all that stuff, like you know, all the stuff with China and the ship, and I mean it was crazy. It was all kind of like you know, just a little hiccups that people really don't see when you you know, you just see the end. You just see the end result. But it's like, I mean, all the little stuff going on, you know, you start finding a politics, it started affecting real business, and you know, realizing she she's been able to, uh she thrived through all of that, and you know it's still going to il the point like she's in Houston right now and the business is still thriving. So uh shouts out to her for that and you know it's going good. You know when I got when I just gotta let go. She was like, you know she was She made a comment like, well, if you're not happy, you know you can you can, uh, you can stop playing and I can pay the bills. And I'd be like, even if I was not lad, I would be doing something, you know what I mean. But uh, it's just good to always just have somebody. You know. When I was young, I used to I just remember, man, I would see like guys come in and they watched this at home and just waiting for them to get there. And it's like they have nothing else to do with their time and you gotta get there and deal with that. And I was like, I do not want that. So uh, I never wanted that. I never thought I would live in Utah, but I knew that I did want the other side of it. So I was like, you know, I didn't. I wanted her to have her own identity. So she's been doing great and uh super bad. Before girl, I see that you have moved around on a few teams, and I'm wondering, um, have you started to prepare yourself for after football? I chose to play with the New York Giants because I knew playing in the mecca of everything, I could leverage that position. So have you started to leverage playing in the NFL because you know just as well as I do, that key can open up doors that a degree cannot. Definitely, Uh, leveraging and just leveraging my network. Everywhere I've been, I've always networked, you know, even when I was Ricky in Oakland, you know, uh inrees and Horowitz was like a big Raiders guy. So he had like a big barbecue for private equity and you know, the I'm undrafted Ricky bro I don't know if Lamont was there when you was there. Uh, but Lamont was like, you know, I would never let it racked Rickie do. But like he let me go to the He invited me to go to the Doude Baryque, you know. So I've always just been that way. Uh. So I really just network. So talking about networking, I too believe that it is crucial to the success of anybody to tell us a little bit about the network that you're part of in your agency, and you know why you chose them and how much that played a role in your decision making. Uh, I got with a clus Sports which is uh was based out of from le Bron, and uh, when it was coming up, they was just you know, rich and all them. It was really just basketball. But you know, like rich Paul had knew like my mom and you know, from the same area as my family, so he had knew of me and growing up. And uh. One of the other agents that came up with Richards Kelly, who was actually my agent on the football side. But when I was coming out, you know, they were just still basketball and I mean they really wasn't a football So, uh, I just got to a point to you know, we're just made sense and going back home and just already having that relationship and being able to talk. You know, it's just different when you know what I'm saying a network side, It's just made sense for me, all right. Man. Look, I'm not trying to start any beef here at all. But you stand at six five six six to fifty, you know Lebron with the sports agency. I gotta ask you one on one. You're on Lebron, do you think you at least score a bucket? Will he drop a bucket? Yeah? No, not you. You you're scoring a bucket. You think you're gonna score a bucket versus Lebron, but sure dropping the buck Bron big on the football side, I'll be on the back people outside. But you know our body, you know what I mean. I like I like my chances. Yeah, I hear you, man. I'm sure. I'm sure he appreciates here in the competitiveness you have him and and I'm sure he loves representing you. Man. So um, listen, I appreciate you taking the time to jump on the bag. I wish you the most success the rest of the season. Stay healthy, we'll chase the playoffs, go get a super Bowl. And I know your wife is gonna stay on your tail and keep you sharp. Man. So all love to see that. Um, but we'll we'll catch you. We'll catch you, and we'll catch you next time. Definite appreciate it. Man, I'm gonna get clutched on his desk with the stars. Now I need to add, you know the next athlete to win with you know right? Hey, I got you. Don't look no further. Man, If you need anybody to come help and you slide, hit me up, man, don't hesitate. I got you. Appreciate you girl. Alright, that wraps up another episode of The Bag. Shout out to sports l Straight It in our Heart Radio making this possible. Make sure you tune in subscribe on all channels and all platforms where you consume the podcast, because we have some amazing guests coming on Next at you, Next time you g

Never No, Never Big. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Sports Illustrated and iHeart Radio is The Bag with me, Lindsy mccorvick and my co host Rashaw Jennings. The Bag sits at the intersection of sports and business, delving into the headlines and behind the scenes of athletes, entrepreneurship, and enterprise. Later in the episode, today we have an amazing interview that Rashaw did with Cleveland Browns Tightened Pharaoh Brown and his journey in the NFL as an undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field with his wife. But before we get into that, rash there's so much news in sports in general right now. Uh. First of all, the MLB is planning on changing some of the rules of the game for next season, and they're planning on adding in a pitch a pitch like timer to where pictures only have x amount of time before they have to get the ball off, and they're really changing up the game. I think it's a ten second timer and then a fifteen second timer. But my question to you, as someone that has played in the NFL and has seen his share of rule changes, is how do you feel about messing with the rules of the game and the history of the game, just to I think an MLB, as we discussed prior to this, it seems like they are trying to attract a younger audience. And but do you feel like that's a good idea or do you think that they're gonna end up losing their old audience in in the process. Yeah. I mean some of some of the greatest philosophers have said the only thing that's constant has changed, right, So I understand changing changes coming along with sports. It's not only to life. So NBA, right, the three point line was not introduced until the nineteens at late nineteen seventies, I believe it nineteen seventy nine and eight season at the three point line was introduced, right, So that was a rule change, Like, wow, this is completely changing the game. Um. You know, players used to get fined for breaking rims that were important in time in the NBA, and then they changed the rules to get to have breakaway breakaway rims. Right. Then you look at football, Hans Ward uh created a whole new blonde blonde spot rule. Right, Hans Ward had had hit Keith Rivers and knocked this completely shattered his draw and he missed the rest of the season, and they actually changed their rule. Uh. Cowboys safety Roy Williams made the introduction of the horse collar in two thousand and five. You know that list goes on and on and on of so many players that have changed rules of games. Baseball, there isn't a necessarily player that's changing this rule. It's not for safety reasons, um, like most sports do. It's to try, it seems like, to try to enhance the game and viewership of people, not being as for um, you know, a lack of better word aboard. You know, they want to speed up the game. I personally absolutely love going to a baseball game and watching I think it's one of the greatest atmospheres to be in. I think these athletes are superior. Um. I cannot even come close to playing baseball at a high school level, much less collegiate and working my way up to the major leagues. I am awful. With that being said, I actually get to be purely and utterly nothing but a fan in which I am not. I'm not a fan of baseball because it's born to me. I love going to the game, I love experiencing it. With people that love the game because it's fun to watch them be soing through is but for me it is born. I don't think speeding up the speed count it's gonna make it all of a sudden fun right there. Their demographic is what their average is, fifty seven year old um individuals is watching the sport if you speed it up. I don't think my little nephew is gonna be like yo, baseball's fire now. I'm watching the minute they ain't got they only got a few seconds between pictures. I don't think that's gonna be the answer to game more fans. I actually think you may hinder losing what you already have. Uh, it's like trying to speed up fishing. Did you imagine about the fume putting out? The real really back? Like actually, some people enjoy that piece, just like speeding up yoga, Like what what do you mean speed up yoga? That is the whole point you're meditating? Like, I don't know. I think they're playing with some tricky waters there, but we'll see. I'll set back and uh enjoy the outcome either way. I I love watching the MLB playoffs. I love watching the NBA playoffs, Like there's something extra special when the players care and every theer seasons on the line after a very long season. But I'm with you. The only people I know that watch every single baseball game during the regular season are my dad, my father in law, like everyone in my life that is over the age of I guess sixty so. And there's something meditative about listening to a baseball game on the radio, which those individuals in my life love doing, as opposed to it being young and hip, and you're watching it on television with all the cool graphics and social media handles, and it doesn't seem that that's It seems like these rule changes are targeted towards that demographic, but yet they should be trying to preserve the audience they have, the ones that love the history of the game that I've watched the Yankees for decades and decades, and my grandma in St. Louis, who watched every single Cardinals game until the day she died. It was she, I mean, she didn't miss a game. And if they had sped up the the pitching timer, and I found the exact rules, so it's there will be a fifteen second timer with the base is empty and a twenty second timer with runners on base. I think it may add an element of competition between the players, and maybe it'll make the regular season more exciting for someone like me who's a fan that doesn't really watch every single game during the regular season, but definitely doesn't miss games during the postseason. But I think you might lose, you might lose some fans in the process. So I have I'm with you. I don't think it's a smart move, but I also don't really love change them tell a little change that much that listen. I think it's just it's, uh, we had to set wait and see, we'll see, we'll speak from it in hindsight, but I think this should be deferred. U two fans of the sport itself, and how much is gonna change how they view it? Who knows? It could uh you know for a new generation, new decade of um, you know, kids growing up. Maybe they appreciate the speed of the game more now. But I think you heard in a I think you heard in a traditional fan me too. So another topic that's been uh, very interesting is Aby has started in off the field this venture, and I'm actually curious how much money he's made in this off the field business venture of selling T shirts with Gazelle on it. What do you what do you think about this? Aby is, Uh, he's doing his thing. He he's being a b um. He has a T shirt out for sale with him. Um it looks like the shirt was from the celebration of winning the Super Bowl. Um, you know, hugging everybody, hug Giselle. And he's selling that shirt and he's trying to say he's raising money for fatherless kids in America, which, uh, you know, it's quite the irony of that for for him to do it, But I guess you know, I love that because still at the end of the day, I don't know how true it is, right, it could be a parody, but you know, what he's bringing attention is something that is very important, and that is fatherless children. But the way he's doing it, obviously, I don't know how many people are gonna take that serious. They're looking at the joke and um, the poke at Tom Brady going through a divorce. I A b is just being a b um. I think one of the things that b understands is that views equals currency, Attention equals currency. In today's market, um, and he knows how to get that. Speaking of currency, do you think that Tom Brady staying coming out of retirement and staying an extra season, do you think he's gonna end up losing money because of this, because it seems like he's really tanking his image and his name, image and likeness is not going to be worth the same amount after this season. Yeah, if it continues to go to the way that it is, um losing to the Stillers at one in four, then loser to the Panthers. I believe they were one in five, and Um obviously missing practices because he wants to go to weddings, missing eleven games issues me eleven practices during training camp, which is obviously instrumental to a football team. I get it. He's a veteran. He's going to do his thing. He Yeah, Tom Brady is great and all of that, but when you are the quarterback, it's not about You's about the team and the reason why Tom has been so successful looking at it from a distance and playing against him, never with them, Tom is successful because he's always there. I mean, he is the coach, he is the offensive coordinator with the football in his hand. So when he isn't there. Yeah he's fine, but the team isn't see Tom is not an insert he So if Tom was playing basketball, he would be the player that had to have the ball in his hands. Some players are really outstanding right in basketball, but when you pair them with other grades, it's like yo, it doesn't work because the game is ran through them at their old team, right. The game runs through Tom when he's on the team. So when you're a player that everybody has to uh maneuver around and adjust too, isn't there shows up sometimes and maybe he's not emotionally available, he's not you know, mentally available. It's gonna make a big difference. And so yeah Tom, uh Tom tripping right now, but you know everybody trips at some point. It's just he's on it the microscope, um and it is his is his turn to you know, dig himself out of a hole. I hope he does or his shake and for the team's sake, it seems like he has a very narrow focus in life right now. And he came out and said that he's never quitted anything, and he is not going to start by quitting this football season. But everyone else in America that's seeing the bigger picture is like, well, you're quitting on your marriage, you're quitting on your family. So you actually are quitting. It's something, and we're not viewing it as like, oh, what a role model. You're staying on your team and helping those guys. They're all gonna be fine, they're all getting paid, they're all gonna be fine. But your family may not be. Your kids may not be. And I think America really is seeing the bigger picture, which it's a good thing, but he clearly is not. You know, the funny thing about quitting, like you can look at that to push that a little bit on that look at it from the other um pendulum. He's not quitting his marriage. Um, maybe it's quitting him, I don't know. Or maybe he's not quitting from his family. Maybe uh, he's just not succeeding. J Quitting doesn't equal success, right, Sometimes you need to quit things. People need to quit doing drugs. Like quitting isn't a problem. What it is is not succeeding at the right things is the issue. Right, And so you know, in this situation, obviously Mo'm speaking from myself. I'm not married yet, look forward to being married I love marriage. I think it's the most beautiful gift, UM that that that one can have. UM. I don't want to wash my time talking about I think marriage is awesome. So you know, potentially, what Tom has maybe one two more years max right to play. And I can't say that the reason why he's getting divorces because he came back to sports. But though I did dinner did I did an interview back in like May, and people was like asking about Tom Brady coming out of retirement, what do you think? And I was like, hey, listen, to be honest, I think something's probably going on off the field or at home, maybe that he's not excited about. I didn't know it was this, right, I don't know Tom, but I say that to say this, two more years of being successful in sports where you've already had every acculated possible right versus potentially fifty more years of your life in a successful family and marriage. Which one do you? Which one have you been for? And then you got a three hundred million or like a three hundred million dollar contract you know for uh for commentating, setting setting there waiting for you once you're retire. That granted, it's not all the ways about the money, right, you want? Championships doesn't equal money, and I don't think Brady is money hungry. Obviously he's he's successful, his wife successful, his family said, everybody is good. From from a fun answer standpoint, I think Tom obviously loves a game, but there's only time can answer that. I only can speculate. But man, hindsight looking in from afar, which I'm not judging at all, I'm picking my marriage over over here, y'all. Yeah, yeah, it's straight up now, you know what in a perfect world for me, this is me selfishly right. Only can speak from my opinion, but I think one voice always represents millions. I would love to see Tom say, you know what, I quit football and I'm gonna go try to save my marriage. Man. I would support the everything out of that, and I think athletes and a lot of people would too. Now, granted, he doesn't have to live for us. It ain't about us. I am just behind the mic sharing my opinion in that's it. From a business standpoint, I think his life would thrive if he made that decision because he would likable again, not that he's I mean, it's a mixed it's a mixed feeling if you can, if you start to see what the media headlines looked like for him even a year ago when he came out of retirement versus now when you google Tom Brady, what you're seeing in the headlines, it seems like he would benefit financially and from a business standpoint if he made that decision to quit, because people would say, Okay, I have a little respect for him that he decided, you know what, I have done everything I can in the NFL and in my at my craft, and now I'm gonna go and prioritize my family, And I think that would make him more likable and therefore would get more business deals. People would watch his broadcasts, and from business standpoint, I think it's like a smart decision too. But I think Tom Brady, in order to be successful in the National Football League, you have to have discipline, integrity, you have to be a self motive. Later um, you have to be a great communicator. You have to be all of these things that garners success. There's no difference in your marriage, there's no different in your business ventures. So um, you know, Tom Brady obviously as the tangibilities to be successful in anything he focuses on, and um, you know it's just for me personally. Again, this is me personally. It would be an odd story for Tom Brady to win a super Bowl while he's going through a divorce. Yeah, it's just for me. It's just odd, But that's me personally where I put the premium of marriage over winning football games. It's a better work life balance and just a better view on life in general in my opinion. Anyways, you had a chance to speak to someone else who was it seems like he's making amazing decisions on and off the field. And it's clear and Brown's tightened. Pharaoh Brown, and you spoke to him about his journey in the NFL. Is an undrafted free agent and his business endeavors off the field with his wife. So it seems like he has a pretty good balanced work life balance. And I'm excited to hear this interview. So let's take a listen, Pharaoh Brown. My man appreciates your sliding through the bag for us. How you doing, I'm doing great, man, Thanks for having me. Yes, sir, yes, sir, so size wise your monster. I want to feel your monster, man, So to tell us how how you got into the NFL will give us a little bit of your background for anybody that may be hearing you for the very first time ever. Uh. Growing up, I played football, but then I kind of like switched the basketball because I was I was just that's just my height and everything. You know, everybody just wanted to be Hoopers back in the day. And Uh, I was in high school and the guy was like I was going to like little visits and my football coaches like he's like, man, you need to come play football. It's like my sophomore year, he was like, with your size at six seven, you will go to the league, just because he was like in basketball, you know, it's a toss up, like there's a lot of six heaven people. So he's like he basically, do you want to go to the NFL? Or like do you want to like for sure stemp and go pro or you know, uh keep messed around with football, like I mean with basketball, And I was like, I want to go pro, and uh, I switched over my junior year, I was playing the quarterback in defensive and and and then Chip Kelly came out. It was like, man, you were tight end and I was like all right, So like I never played tight in so so the next year, senior year I played, I switched the tight end, decommitted from Michigan, went to Oregon and that's how I kind of like jump started my career. That's crazy. So you you committed, what made you de commited with with different positions? It was different positions and you know, like when you're going through that process, man, those uh the Michigan coaches was like, oh, you can't take any business. It's kind of like you're married. And you know, I wanted to go check out Oregon when I was committed, you know, just weighing all my options, but uh, they didn't. They didn't kind of like that, and the head coach and came to my high school and you know, it was like why did you go while used to do this, and you know, I'm a kid. I'm like all right, Well, like I get five visits, I feel like you should I should be exported by options. So it was just kind of a little I didn't like how they handle that situation. Got you. I totally understand that, man. But that's funny. I've never heard the combination of somebody playing because I played both sides, play running back, you know, and play linebacker, kick punter like you do everything right. But I've never heard the combination of a quarterback turning around and going to play defensive. And that's a different one. So so I before we keep going, I gotta know, I played both sides of the ball, so it's a running back. One time I phone with the ball right, so boom, I'm mad. I'm automatically on defense. So I got a lot of amosity to go hunt down somebody. Have you ever thrown a pick? They got real piste off, you know, on defense and then go try to try to get to do the picture or something, because I I that's kind of energy I had in high school. Uh not really, I mean we was we was just we was read ob we was barely throwing the career. We were Uh, we was just running it, running the read. I was scrambling all around and uh but you never know picks, but I just should when I would get I would just know, like what the quarterback was doing. So I used to just go here everything. I love it, man, I love it. So fast forward us a little bit. Tell us about your NFL career. UM. It was the first team you played with, UM and he was undrafted, I do believe, right. So I was undrafted to the Raiders, and uh man, my career has just been a grinding the journey, and I kind of wouldn't change it. I mean, I'm in my six year and I haven't had the same coaching staff or the same position coach yet, you know, so every year it was like so much turn over. So as an undrafted guy, you're coming, You're like building with an old staff and they like you, and you know, uh, obviously it's being undrafted. You know, you're kind of on the bottom by the total post are You're working your way up, and then that coaching staff leave, you get a newes. So you just kind of started over every year, and really, you know, I learned the politics of the game, you know, I learned how to be a pro. My I went from Oakland to the raid I mean I went from the Raiders to the Browns, and then from the Browns, I went to the Texas and I'm back to the Browns. So I had three stops building those three stops, I had like six seven coaches changes. So I mean, you just kind of learned a lot through the through the journey and the the process as you know. So I mean it helped me be the product I m today. So man, keep doing that, man. So but take us out a little bit on your career path. I know you played with the Raiders. Wait wait, so how was your experience that? Did you play in the baseball field? Unfortunately? Okay, So we shared that in common, man, because when I was there, who played on the baseball field? They used to bring in? Did they bringing the tacos on Tuesdays to the facility? Yeah? For sure? Nice. And you're from Ohio, right, I from Cleveland. So you're from Cleveland and now you're playing with the Cleveland Browns. How how does that feel? Man? That's like a childhood dream. I feel like it's definitely surreal, like you know, passing that stadium when you're growing up and now you're playing in it, you know, and now like I'm like, first off, like that undrafted guy. You know. Now I'm back home. Everybody knows me, so I'm way more like you know, every I go in and wherevery like, oh that's that's fair, you know what I'm saying. So it's like it's like it's different here. You know, you're seeing everybody that you freaking you know, you go to the grocery store, or you played with Buddy and Mutt in the Pop Warner and high school. Now you're playing for the ProTeam and in Cleveland, it's not much to do. So everybody watching the Browns game, so you know, everybody got the opinion or what needs to be done and stuff. So you gotta go through all that. But I mean, it's definitely it's definitely a great being back. And so tell us a little bit about your wife's business. Understand that she has, uh, she has her own company. Yeah, she uh, she had had her she had started her business and uh when I was in college, so she was she wasn't living in Salt Lake City. Starts she was a nail technician and she kind of uh just found like you know, she had had she had had a rare eye cancer that she ended up beating and uh just kind of got like on the healthy thing and like figure starts seeing like how all the critic and all that stuff was basically like bad for bath, for the nail and all that good stuff. So she cured her own jail nail line and uh man din't on her own And when I got drafted, not drafted. When I went undrafted, you know, I always wanted her to have her own identity. So in the off seasons, you know, I would go back to Utah just so it was like in the season, it was like my time. But then in the off season, you know, we was going back to you talk of her time, and I was like, you know, I'll do I'll be to get to work out end and get right and get ready for the season. But I mean it's awesome just seeing their grind and uh seeing her like you know through COVID and all that stuff, like you know, all the stuff with China and the ship, and I mean it was crazy. It was all kind of like you know, just a little hiccups that people really don't see when you you know, you just see the end. You just see the end result. But it's like, I mean, all the little stuff going on, you know, you start finding a politics, it started affecting real business, and you know, realizing she she's been able to, uh she thrived through all of that, and you know it's still going to il the point like she's in Houston right now and the business is still thriving. So uh shouts out to her for that and you know it's going good. You know when I got when I just gotta let go. She was like, you know she was She made a comment like, well, if you're not happy, you know you can you can, uh, you can stop playing and I can pay the bills. And I'd be like, even if I was not lad, I would be doing something, you know what I mean. But uh, it's just good to always just have somebody. You know. When I was young, I used to I just remember, man, I would see like guys come in and they watched this at home and just waiting for them to get there. And it's like they have nothing else to do with their time and you gotta get there and deal with that. And I was like, I do not want that. So uh, I never wanted that. I never thought I would live in Utah, but I knew that I did want the other side of it. So I was like, you know, I didn't. I wanted her to have her own identity. So she's been doing great and uh super bad. Before girl, I see that you have moved around on a few teams, and I'm wondering, um, have you started to prepare yourself for after football? I chose to play with the New York Giants because I knew playing in the mecca of everything, I could leverage that position. So have you started to leverage playing in the NFL because you know just as well as I do, that key can open up doors that a degree cannot. Definitely, Uh, leveraging and just leveraging my network. Everywhere I've been, I've always networked, you know, even when I was Ricky in Oakland, you know, uh inrees and Horowitz was like a big Raiders guy. So he had like a big barbecue for private equity and you know, the I'm undrafted Ricky bro I don't know if Lamont was there when you was there. Uh, but Lamont was like, you know, I would never let it racked Rickie do. But like he let me go to the He invited me to go to the Doude Baryque, you know. So I've always just been that way. Uh. So I really just network. So talking about networking, I too believe that it is crucial to the success of anybody to tell us a little bit about the network that you're part of in your agency, and you know why you chose them and how much that played a role in your decision making. Uh, I got with a clus Sports which is uh was based out of from le Bron, and uh, when it was coming up, they was just you know, rich and all them. It was really just basketball. But you know, like rich Paul had knew like my mom and you know, from the same area as my family, so he had knew of me and growing up. And uh. One of the other agents that came up with Richards Kelly, who was actually my agent on the football side. But when I was coming out, you know, they were just still basketball and I mean they really wasn't a football So, uh, I just got to a point to you know, we're just made sense and going back home and just already having that relationship and being able to talk. You know, it's just different when you know what I'm saying a network side, It's just made sense for me, all right. Man. Look, I'm not trying to start any beef here at all. But you stand at six five six six to fifty, you know Lebron with the sports agency. I gotta ask you one on one. You're on Lebron, do you think you at least score a bucket? Will he drop a bucket? Yeah? No, not you. You you're scoring a bucket. You think you're gonna score a bucket versus Lebron, but sure dropping the buck Bron big on the football side, I'll be on the back people outside. But you know our body, you know what I mean. I like I like my chances. Yeah, I hear you, man. I'm sure. I'm sure he appreciates here in the competitiveness you have him and and I'm sure he loves representing you. Man. So um, listen, I appreciate you taking the time to jump on the bag. I wish you the most success the rest of the season. Stay healthy, we'll chase the playoffs, go get a super Bowl. And I know your wife is gonna stay on your tail and keep you sharp. Man. So all love to see that. Um, but we'll we'll catch you. We'll catch you, and we'll catch you next time. Definite appreciate it. Man, I'm gonna get clutched on his desk with the stars. Now I need to add, you know the next athlete to win with you know right? Hey, I got you. Don't look no further. Man, If you need anybody to come help and you slide, hit me up, man, don't hesitate. I got you. Appreciate you girl. Alright, that wraps up another episode of The Bag. Shout out to sports l Straight It in our Heart Radio making this possible. Make sure you tune in subscribe on all channels and all platforms where you consume the podcast, because we have some amazing guests coming on Next at you, Next time you g