Welcome to another thought-provoking episode where we dive deep into the realms of literature, personal insight, and the art of effective marketing.

In the Person segment, we continue our journey through Dostoevsky’s timeless quotes, applying his reflections on self-awareness and resilience to both personal and professional contexts.

Next, in the Principles segment, we explore Woody Allen’s unique approach to creativity, examining how his philosophy of ignoring critics can be applied to business and creative projects alike.

Moving into the Problem segment, we take aim at overused marketing clichés and emphasise the importance of specificity, particularly for tourism copy that truly resonates with an audience.

Finally, in Perspicacity, we revisit one of Australia’s most daring and celebrated lamb adverts, considering its humour, cultural nuances, and whether its message of unity would hold up in today’s climate.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Embracing Dostoevsky's Wisdom for Life and Business

In this Person segment, Steve and David continue their journey through the profound quotes of Fyodor Dostoevsky, extracting insights that apply as much to the world of business as to our personal lives. They begin by discussing Dostoevsky's observation that "Man only likes to count his troubles. He doesn't calculate his happiness," and reflect on the human tendency to focus on negative experiences. Drawing on research about negativity bias, they discuss the power of gratitude practices, even as small as a three-point journal, to shift our perspective and enrich our lives.

The conversation deepens as they explore Dostoevsky’s thoughts on self-reflection, noting the importance of being able to admit one’s own mistakes and grow from them. David emphasises that true intelligence goes beyond knowledge, involving empathy, courage, and the willingness to embrace vulnerability. Steve and David share their personal practices and challenges around self-awareness, finding meaning in even the simplest interactions and daily reflections, which can offer clarity and growth.

Finally, they reflect on the power of creative work as a “medicine” for the soul, echoing Dostoevsky’s advice to find refuge in art. Whether it’s as simple as picking up a guitar or crafting a new character, creative pursuits offer a lifeline to recharge, inspire, and build resilience. Steve and David conclude with a reminder that stories, even small daily ones, are invaluable — not only for personal growth but for connecting with others. Through Dostoevsky’s words, this segment invites listeners to embrace the deeper truths within everyday experiences and apply these timeless principles in their own lives.

17:45 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Pursuing Your Vision: Lessons in Courage and Creativity from Woody Allen and Tim Burton

In this Principles segment, Steve and David explore the importance of following one’s creative vision, undeterred by the noise of criticism, through the lens of Woody Allen’s approach to filmmaking. Inspired by Allen’s autobiography, Apropos of Nothing, they discuss the discipline of blocking out external opinions and staying true to one's unique ideas, even when others may not fully understand or appreciate them. Allen’s career, marked by a relentless pursuit of his creative ideas regardless of critical acclaim, is seen as an example of how to cultivate resilience and artistic control in the face of outside pressures.

They also touch on the advice Allen received early in his career: to listen to trusted voices but to avoid letting critics and industry gatekeepers sway his vision. Steve and David discuss how this principle applies to business, particularly in making bold decisions and pursuing projects that may not immediately resonate with others. The challenge, they suggest, is in discerning when to listen to trusted feedback and when to stay the course with a personal vision, even if that path is misunderstood by others.

Bringing in another perspective, David recounts a recent BBC interview with director Tim Burton, who similarly prioritises completing his vision over appeasing external opinions. For entrepreneurs, artists, and anyone with a strong creative drive, Steve and David conclude that pursuing these "earworm" ideas is essential. When a concept or vision keeps resurfacing, it’s often a signal that it deserves attention — and that following through on it may be more fulfilling than compromising for approval.

27:30 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Avoiding the Trap of Generic Messaging: Making Your Brand Stand Out with Specificity

In this Problem segment, Steve and David tackle the issue of overly generic marketing messages that fail to connect with audiences. Steve recounts a frustrating experience with a tourism brochure for Blackburn, Melbourne, which used bland phrases like “there’s something for everyone” instead of highlighting unique attractions. Such vague language, they argue, is not only unhelpful but also uninspiring. They stress that specificity in marketing — like mentioning unique local features or specialised events — can transform a message from forgettable to compelling.

David points out the importance of details, especially for audiences who rely on concrete information, such as those with accessibility needs. Broad, sweeping statements leave out crucial specifics, making it challenging for people to form a genuine interest or connection. As an example, Steve shares a humorous quiz from his recent 5AA segment, demonstrating how multiple tourism regions use the same repetitive language, rendering their offerings indistinguishable from one another. He emphasises that well-defined features, like a notable BMX park or a gallery with a unique art focus, would make a region more memorable.

The segment wraps up with a look at a recent ad campaign for Oslo, where the city embraces a self-deprecating tone, poking fun at its own accessibility and charm. This clever approach, they argue, captures attention by defying the typical tourist ad style, proving the power of authenticity and uniqueness in marketing. The key takeaway: instead of blandly claiming “something for everyone,” businesses should focus on what makes them distinct, building messages that truly resonate and engage.

35:45 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Lamb Adverts and the Power of Bringing People Together in Divisive Times

In this Perspicacity segment, Steve and David delve into one of Australia’s iconic lamb adverts, a humorous piece depicting religious deities gathered around a table for a lamb feast. The ad, which aired about a decade ago, cleverly walks a tightrope of humour and inclusivity by poking gentle fun at each deity while celebrating a universal moment of sharing food. With witty references like Jesus turning water back into water and Moses parting peas, the ad managed to navigate religious sensitivity and connect with the broad Australian audience, prompting both laughter and reflection.

David raises the potential risk of people focusing more on the cleverness of the ad than the product itself, a common pitfall for highly creative campaigns. However, Steve argues that the ad remains grounded enough by maintaining subtle visual reminders of food and fellowship. This anchoring effect keeps the core message — “lamb is the meat that brings us all together” — clear amidst the humour. They agree that the ad’s underlying theme of connection through shared experiences helps it resonate deeply.

The conversation turns thoughtful as they consider the feasibility of running a similar ad today, in a time marked by heightened global tensions and polarisation. While Steve expresses concern that advertisers might shy away from taking such risks, David believes the ad’s message is more relevant than ever, serving as a reminder of our common ground. Together, they conclude that embracing shared humanity, even through humour, might be a refreshing antidote in times of division.