This pirate lived in the 13th century and was connected to some major events in British and French history. During his lifetime he was so notorious that people would tell kids that if they were bad Eustice the Monk would come to take them away.
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Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V.
Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. It's been quite a while since we had an episode on a pirate and also, I really could have sworn that we had just a ton of pirate episodes in the catalog. It feels in my mind like a very frequent theme. Turns out, looking back, there are not that many, relatively speaking, today's pirate and outlaw. Lived in the thirteenth century and was connected to some major events in British and French history, but he just really doesn't have the name recognition today that someone like Blackbeard or Anne Bonnie and Mary Reid, or thanks in part to the TV show Our Flag Means Death Steed Bonnet. I'm so sad that show was canceled me too. This is about Eustace the Monk. Sometimes it is spelled cche at the end, almost as though it would be pronounced to rhyme with mustache. During his lifetime, he was so notorious and feared that in areas around the English Channel, people would tell their kids that if they were bad, Eustace the monk would come and take them away.
He's like the lost Crampus and Friends character. A lot of what we know about Eustace the Monk comes from a biography by an anonymous poet from Picardy in what is now France. This book was written in Old French with some Picard dialect as a little more than twenty three hundred verses in rhymed couplets. There is one known copy of it today, which is in the collection of the National Library of France.
So the earliest this biography could have been written is the year twelve twenty three, and it definitely existed by twelve eighty four. It was probably written in the earlier part of that time span, and that means the events it describes were in the fairly recent past. It's possible the author could have talked to people who knew Eustace or lived through various events that he was connected to, or the author could have had some kind of personal experience with all of this. Various details in the biography can be corroborated through other historical sources, including some official documents, so parts of this biography probably pretty accurate. But though we're calling it a biography, it's not a straightforward biography, It's a medieval romance. As a genre, medieval romances are known for their fantastic adventures. The most well known medieval romances today are the ones that also focus more on tales of heroism and chivalry and courtly love. Think of all the various stories involving King Arthur and his knights.
For example.
Eustace, on the other hand, is an outlaw and a pirate whose behavior can really be the opposite of chivalrous, like propositioning a sergeant well disguised as a woman and then loudly passing gas and blaming it on his horse's saddle. Get that incident goes on for much longer than that one sentence. The Romance of Eustace the Monk has some parallels with the Romance of Reynard the Fox. The characters in Reynard the Fox are anthropomorphized animals, but there are some similarities between Eustace and the trickster character of Renard. There are also some moments in the romance of Eustace the Monk that are almost identical to things that happen in the Romance of fuch Fitzwaren. This was another real person and one of Eustace's contemporaries. It's not really clear whether this overlap came from the authors of each of these kind of being inspired by each or copying from each other, or if the common scenes among them are more like literary tropes that were just in heavy use at the time and are probably in lots of other stories that just haven't survived until today.
Regardless, nearly two thirds of the Romance of Eustace the Monk is focused not on the wars and the monarchs and the details that can be more readily substantiated, but on the period when he was living as an outlaw in the forest of the Boulonnais in northern France. It's a series of very dramatic sketches that involve a lot of trickery and theft and disguises and narrow escapes, some of which really defy reality. So this biography includes details that were probably true, details that might have been true, and things that were almost certainly made up for the sake of and entertaining stories, and sometimes it's really tough to pick those apart. Eustace was definitely a real person, though born around the year seventy, he was the son of a minor noble named Budwin Busque or Buscit. They lived in the County of Bologna, which was in northern France along the coast of the English Channel. Boudoin was a vassal of Renaud de de Martin, count of Bologna, and since Eustace was of the nobility, he probably trained as a knight, and at some point he also learned to be a seafarer, although the timeline on that is not really clear. According to the Romance of Eustace the Monk, Eustace went to Toledo and what's now central Spain to study sorcery or necromancy. The romance claims he spent an entire summer and winter in an underground chamber there, studying black magic, including meeting with the devil himself. A nineteenth century essay by Thomas Wright, who was an antiquarian and an editor of medieval literature, summed up with the Devil, allegedly foretold about Eustace's later life as quote, he should live to war against nobles and princes, and that he should not die until he had been concerned in many commotions, after which he should be killed on the sea.
This trip to Toledo is one of the moments in the Romance of Eustace the Monk that really can't be substantiated, not even just the part about talking to the devil. There's not really any evidence that he went to the Iberian Peninsula at all, but Toledo did have a reputation and a lot of Europe for being home to all kinds of sorcerers and magicians and underground schools of witchcraft. We also don't really know where the idea of his studying sorcery came from, like whether this was a rumor about Eustace that was circulating during or after his lifetime, or whether it was something that the author of this romance included to kind of spice up the story and also offer an explanation of what he was up to during a gap in the timeline between when he was born and the next thing we know happened, along with explaining how he became such a cunning and ruthless man. As an example of stuff from the biography that can't really be substantiated and definitely sounds very fictional. On the way back from Toledo, Eustace was traveling with some of his fellow students of sorcery, and they stopped in the town of Montferrand today that's Clermont Ferrand in central France. They didn't have any local currency, so at first the tavern keeper's wife refused to serve them. Then she tried to charge them double because they were using foreign coins, so Eustace cast a spell that made her take all of her clothes off and release all of the tavern's wine from the barrels. Other people in town ran up to see what the commotion was about, and they started taking their clothes off too. Then Eustace's party tried to leave, and the townspeople gave chase. One of his traveling companions was an old man, and this old man cast a spell that caused a huge river to appear and divide them from their pursuers, And then he cast another spell that made the townspeople back on the other side of the river all start fighting each other. Once Eustace felt like he'd gotten sufficient retribution for their earlier treatment at the tavern, he threw some grain on the ground, which caused everything to go back to normal, including making the wine go back into the barrels.
Of course, there's no backup documentation for that whole incident, but sources do generally agree that Eustace became a monk. He likely joined the Benedictine order at the abbey of Saint sam Man near Calais, But again most of the details of his time as a monk come from the romance in the words of that nineteenth century essay on him quote, when Eustace took on himself the religious habit, he laid aside none of his former unholy practices. The whole abbey was troubled by his conjurations, and he turned everything upside down, caused the monks, as the story informs us, to fast when they ought to have been eating, and when they ought to have worn their shoes, to go barefoot, one thousand errors he led them into when they ought to have been gravely performing the holy services.
Eustace later left the monastery, and there are two different accounts of why.
Neither of them is.
That the other monks got sick of him using black magic to just continually disrupt their religious community. The Chronica Majora by Benedictine monk Matthew Parris, was first published in twelve fifty nine and it says that Eustace's father, Buduin Buscuaye, died and then Eustace was the only surviving heir. His father probably did die sometime around eleven ninety. His name shows up as a witness in various legal documents before eleven ninety, but then not afterward. Eustace could not inherit that estate as long as as he was a monk, so he renounced the order. If this is what happened, though, if he left the order so that he could get this inheritance, some of the details are wrong because Eustace seems to have still had surviving brothers. There's not I mean, that's possible. Maybe that like his mother remarried and had children with somebody else, but he has brothers who show up in the historical record later on.
The other explanation is also connected to the death of Eustace's father, and that's that Eustace left the order so that he could try to get revenge on the man who killed him. Boudoin had some kind of dispute with Hanphoi de Harris and Jin, possibly over control of a fifdom. This escalated into a physical altercation in which Boudoin struck Hanphoi and Hanfoix retaliated, either by killing him or by arranging an ambush in which someone else killed him. Eustace petitioned Renault de de Martin for justice, leading to a judicial duel to settle the matter. Hanphoas's champion was another man named Eustace Eustace de Marquise. Eustace the Monk's champion was his cousin Monsier, who was killed in the duel, making Hanphois the victor.
And even though Eustace's petition to Reynald de de Martine did not work out in his favor, he later entered the count's service. By twelve oh three, Eustace had become rend Seneschal, but his time in this role did not go all that smoothly. Based on what we know, and we'll get to that after a sponsor break. Eustace the Monk's life up to this point, as we have told it so far, has had a fair amount of silliness. But before we go on, we need to set up some more serious context for what was happening between England and France, because that is going to be a recurring part of the rest of the episode. England was being ruled by the Plantagenets also known as the Angevints or the House of Anjou, depending on who's describing them and exactly when we are talking about, and France was being ruled by the Capitian dynasty. The Plantagenets controlled most of what's now England, as well as parts of Ireland and Wales, and thanks to various marriages and inheritances going back to the later part of the twelfth century, the Plantagenets also were controlling about half of what's now France, with this combined territory later described as the Angevin Empire.
In eleven ninety nine, English King Richard the First also known as Richard the Lionheart, died without a direct heir. He had previously named his nephew Arthur as his successor, but then changed his selection to his brother John, also known as John Lackland. John had previously tried to take control of England while Richard was imprisoned during the Third Crusade. But Richard had a few reasons for making this switch in spite of all that. One is that Arthur was still a child while John was in his early thirties. Another is that after some convoluted and failed attempts to create an alliance between the Plantagenets and the Kapecians. Young Arthur had wound up being fostered in the court of Philip the Second of France. He's also called Philip Augustus. Of course, this meant that Philip Augustus supported Arthur's claim to the English throne. Among other things, an English king who had been fostered in French court might pave the way for the French to regain control of some of that territory.
Yeaes switcheroo was confirmed, and near the very end of the of Richard the first life, after he had been shot with a crossbow bolt, and that had become gangrenous, and it was clear that he was dying, so to get back to Eustace. While he was in the service of Renaud de de Martines, Renaud was supporting Philip Augustus's efforts to retake this territory in France by force. And we don't know the full story of all of Eustace's service, but one portion of it did not go all that well for him or for Renaud. Eustace had been ordered to oversee the improvement of a road that was going to help strengthen communication between Bologna and Calais. This road was going to be on land that belonged to Baldwin, Count of Guineas, who was opposed to the whole project, because this improved road was going to improve that connection, but it was going to cut off some of his own access routes. This led to a standoff between Eustace and Baldwin, with Baldwin finally showing up with men to confront Eustace's workforce. Eustace's workers fled, and while it doesn't seem like anybody was killed in this altercation, some of those workers were captured, and Baldwin also seized all of their tools and materials.
Eustace left Renault's service in twelve oh four, or perhaps a little later, and according to the Romance of Eustace the Monk, this traced back to his dispute with han Foi de Harris engine as Seneschal. Eustace was managing Reynauld's accounts and han Foix raised all kinds of suspicions that Eustace was mishandling Reynauld's money. Renault eventually summoned Eustace to his castle to answer these charges, but instead of answering that call, Eustace fled, burning down Renauld's mills on his way out. According to the romance, after this, Eustace spent some time as an outlaw, hiding out in the woods of Boulonnai, trying to both humiliate Renault and rob him at every opportunity.
This probably was a real dispute Eustace and Reynauld. Probably we were fighting with each other, but the account of it in the Romance of Eustace the Monk is very colorful. This is also the longest part of the Row Romance, set up at the top of the show. This part of the romance has some parallels with Reynard the Fox and the Romance of fu Fitzwarren, especially this part of it. Like Eustace and fuch Fitzwarren, both have their horses shoes put on backward so people will think they're traveling in the opposite direction based on the tracks they left. They both disguise themselves as charcoal burners, that is, somebody who makes and sell charcoal, and people in that role typically were just covered in charcoal dust. Because of the nature of the work. There are a lot of chases and escapes, and there's speculation that Eustace the Monk or fuch Fitzwarren, or both of them may have been inspirations for the character of Robin Hood From.
Time to time. Eustace's exploits as an outlaw also touched on the bigger political situation in France. When Philip Augustus visited the region, Reynauld's men acted as his rear guard and Eustace's force, not because he had any issue with Philip Augustus, but because he wanted to mess things up for Renaud. Renaud managed to capture Eustace after Eustace's saddle slipped while he was being pursued, causing him to fall off his horse. We don't know if it made a farting sound or not. Some of Eustace's allies convinced Renaud to send Eustace to Philip Augustus to stand trial rather than just executing him himself. But those same allies came to Eustace's rescue while he was being transported and got him to the border of Boolinais. From there, Eustace fled to England, and once he arrived, he pledged his service to King John.
As we said earlier, we don't know exactly when Eustace trained to be a seafarer, but it had happened already by the time he got to England. King John put him in control of a fleet of ships. There's documentation of eight of them, but the Romance puts that number at thirty. Eustace attacked the King's enemy and was part of English efforts to retake Normandy, which England had lost to France in twelve oh four. The term privateer and letters of mark these things were still centuries away, but that's basically what Eustace was doing. He was acting as a maritime mercenary at the behest of the king. King John was reportedly so impressed with Eustace that he built him a palace in London as a thank you gift, but there's no documentation of this palace actually existing. As he fought for the King, Eustace was also acting more like a pirate, operating out of the Channel Islands and attacking the King's allies as well. He built a stronghold on the island of Sark and treated the whole island as his own property. At various points, John had to smooth things over with various barons and other high ranking people after Eustace attacked their ships. Eventually, Eusas made so many any English enemies, and any time he needed to visit the King, he had to do so with a letter of safe passage, and these are on record as being issued in May of twelve oh six and April of twelve oh seven. And Eustace reportedly made so much money through piracy that he tore down that undocumented palace that John had built for him and replaced it with a bigger, better one, also undocumented. Unsurprisingly, Eustace's relationship with King John eventually soured one John understandably got tired of having to pay off or otherwise placate people who Eustace and his fleet attacked or harassed. Eustace was also probably tired of the King constantly getting on his case about how he should stop attacking the King's allies, and then in twelve twelve, the King also informed the Sheriff of Nottingham that Eustace owed a debt of twenty marks and that he had a deadline to pay it. When Eustace failed to pay the debt by the deadline, the sheriff seized all of his lands for unclear reasons, though this consequence did not really stick. The king allowed Eustace to start occupying those lands again, but John did also imprison some of Eustace's men, possibly including one of his brothers, and he took Eustace's daughter and possibly also his wife hostage. We really don't know anything about his wife or children, aside from scattered mentions of their existence in various documents. The final straw seems to have come sometime after May of twelve twelve, when Renauld did de Martesse switched sides, leaving France and pledging his fealty to King John. Either Eustace could not stand the idea of fighting on the same side as Renaud, or Renaud worked to turn King John against him. It's possible that it was more the latter, because there's some indication that Eustace stayed in john service until twelve fourteen, rather than leaving as soon as Renaud showed up. According to the romance, when Eustace left his service, King John had his daughter burned and then killed. After returning to France, Eustace allied with Philip Augustus and worked particularly closely with Philip's son, Prince Louis later King Louis the eighth. Eustace became an admiral in the French Navy, and one of his assignments was to try to retake the Channel Islands from England. Control of the Channel Islands went back and forth between England and France during this whole period. He also fought against England's efforts to retake Normandy from the French. This conflict between England and France became known as the Anglo French War of twelve thirteen to twelve fourteen. As it went on, England didn't manage to retake its lost possessions in France, and France started preparing for a direct invasion of Inga, with Eustace transporting knights and siege weapons to support that planned invasion. This conflict also went beyond England and France, drawing in other kingdoms and the Holy Roman Empire. The last major battle in this particular war between England and France was the Battle of Mouvin, which ended in a French victory. The French at this battle captured Renault de de Martines, and he remained in prison until his death in twelve twenty seven, at the age of about sixty one.
Although the Anglo French War ended with the Truce of Chinol in twelve fourteen, it did not take long for England and France to be at war again. More on that after a sponsor break.
The English losses in the Anglo French War fed into long standing tension between the English monarch and the barons, or the landowners who made up the nobility. This included disputes over things like taxes and administrative issues, and those questions about who Richard the First's successor should be had contributed to a lack of confidence in the monarchy. John's reputation as king was really not good, and after the Anglo French War, the barons were also angry about the loss of nearly all of England's territory in France. Same time, there were also disputes between the crown and Pope Innocent the Second. The Pope excommunicated King John in twelve oh nine, although that was later rescinded. Efforts to resolve these issues and to try to prevent a civil war in England ultimately led to the creation of the Magna Carta in June of twelve fifteen. The Magna Carta or Great Charter, outlined the rights and freedoms of the barons and of the Church, as well as outlining limits of power for the monarch. Some of its clauses also outlined basic civil rights, such as no freeman shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled, or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgment of his peers and the law of the land.
That's one of the four clauses of the Magna Carta that are still in effect today. The Magna Carta is considered to be one of the most important and influential legal documents in English history, and it's one that people who have studied English history in any way have probably at least heard of.
There's some speculation that those sieged weapons that Eustace had transported on behalf of Prince Louis of France, which we talked about before the break. There's speculation that those were a factor in King John agreeing to the terms of the Magna Carta. John was hoping to prevent the possibility of the dissatisfied barons. Basically inviting the French to invade England. Knowing that the French already had siege weapons ready to go, might have been a motivating factor for King John in this.
But John's attempt to prevent a civil war and a French invasion did not work out. The barons didn't think it was likely that the King would actually uphold the terms of the Magna cartam and then Pope Innocent the third declared that he didn't have to. So some of these barons rose up against the king and invited Prince Louis of France to invade England and try to take over, and this came to be known as the First Baron's War. When Prince Louis crossed the Channel on May twentieth, twelve sixteen, it was against the wishes of both his father and the Pope. Pope actually excommunicated him over it. He also crossed the Channel aboard Eustace's flagship. Meanwhile, the rebelling barons in England took control of parts of the country, including the Tower of London. Then King John died of dysentery on October twelfth, twelve sixteen. His son Henry the Third was his successor, but Henry was only nine years old. Henry's regent, William Marshall, took over the defense of England, and he was much more effective at it than John had been. He started driving the French back, and eventually Louis had to return to France to regroup and to get reinforcements. But as the French tried to leave England via the town of Wenchelsea, they were trapped by a blockade. The townspeople had sabotaged the mills there, so the French had plenty of grain but no easy way to grind it into something edible. They lived for a while on forage, nuts, and flour that they did manage to grind themselves by hand. It's not totally clear whether Eustace was with Louis when his army became trapped in Wenchelsea, or if Eustace managed to sneak through that blackade. The sources are contradictory on that detail. But Eustace eventually built a perrier, which is kind of like a trebochet, to attack the blockading ships, and he also built a large fortification on one of the ships that was trapped in the harbor. Although the English captured this fortified ship. The French were eventually relieved by a force that arrived from Artois, and they were able to get out of Winchelsea and return to France. The French returned to England with still more reinforcements, but faced another defeat at the Battle of Lincoln also called the Battle of Lincoln Castle in May of twelve seventeen. But they returned yet again, this time with a plan to try to sail a fleet up the River Thames to London. They faced an English force commanded by Hubert de Burgh at the Battle of Sandwich on August twenty fourth, twelve seventeen.
This was really very early in the history of nautical warfare in this part of Europe. Most ocean vessels in this part of the world generally stuck very close to the coasts. They carried armies that were going to fight once they were on land, and so the ships would try to outmaneuver or outrun one another to get to the land where the fighting was going to happen. The ships themselves weren't really equipped to fight other ships at sea, so those huge warships armed with cannons firing broadside volleys at one another those were still centuries away. Instead, sailors might try to board enemy ships and take them over, possibly with the support of archers or various types of weaponry, but eventually the battles were always winding up on land. The Battle of Sandwich was the first battle in the history of Northern Europe to be fought entirely at sea. The details of how this battle played out are sketchy, and details from various sources are contradictory, possibly because there were a lot of things happening all at once. The English fleet was only about half the size of the French fleet, but the French ships were heavily laden with cargo, including siege weapons, knights, and horses, so they couldn't maneuver very well. The French ships were also downwind of the English, who came at them from behind, and this made it possible for the English to throw powdered lime at the French without being affected by it themselves. That lime blinded the enemy sailors, so they couldn't effectively fight back or control their ships. Once the English caught up to the now disabled French ships, they cut down their sails, which fell on and around those blinded sailors. The English force also focused its attention on Eustace's flagship. Specifically, it was one of the ones that was carrying siege weapons, so its cargo was particularly valuable in the context of this war. Plus, the English hoped if they defeated this flagship, the rest of the French fleet would just scatter or surrender. There's also an English account of the battle that puts a magical spin on this, saying that Eustace had enchanted his ship to be invisible to the English and so they were only able to see it once he had been killed. In the end, focusing on Eustace worked out for the English. They successfully boarded Eustace's ship, where he was found hiding in the bilge or in the hold, depending on what account you read, and he tried to buy his freedom, but was beheaded on the spot, dying at the age of about forty seven. The French effort really fell apart after that. This was a pivotal moment in the history of this part of Europe, in addition to its place in the history of naval warfare and of British naval power. The Battle of sandwhich was a decisive defeat for the French. None of the English ships were lost, while sixty five of eighty French ships were captured. Other ships were sunk, and estimated four thousand French sailors died at the Battle of Sandwich and thirty six French knights were captured. The battle was over, Eustace's head was taken to Canterbury and paraded around on display at the end of a lance, The Romance of Eustace the Monk ends with quote no man can live long who spends his days doing ill. Louis also abandoned his claim to the English throne after this defeat, and that defeat also effectively ended the First Baron's War. The war formally ended with the Treaty of Kingston Lambeth in September of twelve seventeen. There's no surviving copy of this treaty, so we don't have all of its language, but its terms did include that Prince Louis would order Eustace's brothers to return control of the Channel islands they were occupying to England. Louis also abandoned all claims to the English throne under the terms of the treaty, but received ten thousand marks and then the Pope later lifted Louie's excommunication. Twenty fourth, when the Battle of Sandwich took place, is also the feast of Saint Bartholomew, and in some accounts of the battle, Saint Bartholomew appeared bolstering or comforting the English force. After the battle, the people of Sandwich used the spoils to build a chapel dedicated to Saint Bartholomew, and houses for the poor and aged, and a hospital, and it became a tradition for the townspeople to quote make a solemn procession to the aforesaid hospital with tapers in their hands every year on Saint Bartholomew's.
Day, that is Eustace the Monk. I have a little bit of listener mail. Bring it on.
This listener mail is from Janine who wrote after we talked about Connie Willis in the behind the scenes of our episode on the Doomsday Book, and Janine wrote, Hi, Holly and Tracy, I just listened to your episode on Doomsday Book and Tracy's plug for Connie Willis's Doomsday Book and the behind the scenes and had to comment I loved Doomsday Book and all of Connie Willis's time traveling historians of Oxford Books. I read Doomsday Book for the first time ages ago, but I did reread it in twenty twenty during lockdown, and it was definitely something. Mostly it was just a real sense of familiarity, but there's one scene that stood out. There's a group of Americans visiting Oxford when the city is locked down, and they complain vociferously about how they need to move on with their tour and this kind of lockdown would never happen in America, and the main character thinks, yes, this is why thirty million Americans died during the pandemic, referring to a global pandemic that happens in twenty eighteen. In the books, Doomsday Book was published in nineteen ninety two. Connie Willis was extremely prescient and oof that one really hit home in December of twenty twenty. Anyway, still an excellent book and worth the reread, but it certainly is an experience reading it in a post pandemic world. I have sent pictures of my cats before, but I've attached to another couple as pet tacks because they remain extremely cute. Here's the two of them cuddling together, and also my friendliest cat on her favorite perch, my shoulder. Thanks for the podcast. Love catching up when I'm doing chores around the house. Thank you for this email, Jeanine. Like I said in that behind the scenes, it's been so long since I read Doomsday book, I did not remember that detail.
I think I have read all of the books.
In that series, but it's possible that there's one that was written after I had read the others that I did not pick up.
I feel like that's.
Something I heard about at one point and I was like, I should I should get that, and then have not done it. These cat pictures, let's.
Look Katie's keys.
Oh my goodness. We have a like a black cat and a kind of orange just tabby cat, and they are curled up together so cute. One is basically on top of the other. Sometimes mine will do this, but sometimes something that has started happening at my house is Opel will be asleep in the old office chair that I can't get rid of because it's the cat's chair now, and on ex will decide she wants to be up there, and she'll just basically go ahead and jump on up directly on top of her sisters.
Yeah, that sounds great.
Yeah, And sometimes they work it out and they curl up together and it's incredibly cute. But yesterday when this happened, ople was like, Nope, I'm not doing this today. She got down and went somewhere else. A cat perched on a shoulder. I love this. This is something that happens at my house often. If I let a cat into the bathroom while I'm brushing my teeth and I bend over to spit out the toothpaste, kitty Kat will take that opportunity to jump directly onto my back. Anyway, thank you for these adorable pictures and this email about Connie Willis's doomsday book. If you'd like to send us a note, we're at History podcast atiheartradio dot com and you can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app, which is now searchable by episode, or wherever you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.