You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldergrave from News Talk ZEDB.

You're listening to the Sports Talk podcast with Darcy Waldergrave from News Talk ZEDB.

Bob McMurray joins us now. Thirty years in McLaren, you would have seen plenty of this action before, the skull buggery, the backstabbing, the knee jerk reactions. Formula one A hasn't changed, has it, Bob good A.

Bob McMurray joins us now. Thirty years in McLaren, you would have seen plenty of this action before, the skull buggery, the backstabbing, the knee jerk reactions. Formula one A hasn't changed, has it, Bob good A.

No, it hasn't changed, Darcy. But look, first of all, Dars, I've got to say, normally it's really difficult to comment on speculation, and we shouldn't comment on speculation because we're just speculating on speculation, and that's all it is at the moment in that Red Bull have made no official announcement whatsoever, and the announcement I'm sure will be coming because too many people have said too much about it, and it's all through the Dutch newspapers, it's all through the telegraph and stuff like that, and its strangers come from Holland. Nonetheless, it is let's say, I'll take it with smoke and fire at the moment, no smoke without fire. And it looks like so many places got hold of this information that Liam is going to be dropped from the main team, that is difficult not to worry on his behalf. And you know, I've got to say again, first up, Darcy, he is not a bad driver. He's a very fast driver. He's a very accomplished driver, and he's proven that he doesn't have to prove anymore. It just needs to get together with this damn car that he's trying to drive. At the moment you.

No, it hasn't changed, Darcy. But look, first of all, Dars, I've got to say, normally it's really difficult to comment on speculation, and we shouldn't comment on speculation because we're just speculating on speculation, and that's all it is at the moment in that Red Bull have made no official announcement whatsoever, and the announcement I'm sure will be coming because too many people have said too much about it, and it's all through the Dutch newspapers, it's all through the telegraph and stuff like that, and its strangers come from Holland. Nonetheless, it is let's say, I'll take it with smoke and fire at the moment, no smoke without fire. And it looks like so many places got hold of this information that Liam is going to be dropped from the main team, that is difficult not to worry on his behalf. And you know, I've got to say again, first up, Darcy, he is not a bad driver. He's a very fast driver. He's a very accomplished driver, and he's proven that he doesn't have to prove anymore. It just needs to get together with this damn car that he's trying to drive. At the moment you.

Say damn carm We'll talk about that shortly because that's a lot to do with it. And this is the common denominator with Maxvist Steppen's teammates over the years, that damn car. But it's been leaked to the Dutch media, and I'm told that reboard a tendency to leak stuff to the Dutch media if they do so. I don't know what traction is in that comment, but it may very well be the truth.

Say damn carm We'll talk about that shortly because that's a lot to do with it. And this is the common denominator with Maxvist Steppen's teammates over the years, that damn car. But it's been leaked to the Dutch media, and I'm told that reboard a tendency to leak stuff to the Dutch media if they do so. I don't know what traction is in that comment, but it may very well be the truth.

It may well be, but it's speculating. As I sit here, as we talk during the day, I think it is still speculation. But you've got to treat the speculation with the amount of worth that you think it and I obviously I think there is a certain amount of Yeah, what's coming is what's happening. Unfortunately for the end.

It may well be, but it's speculating. As I sit here, as we talk during the day, I think it is still speculation. But you've got to treat the speculation with the amount of worth that you think it and I obviously I think there is a certain amount of Yeah, what's coming is what's happening. Unfortunately for the end.

Look, he's had a rotten ale run of it, and people say start making excuses Darcy because he's got to the top and he's failing. But the excuses in this case Bob McMurray are extremely relevant. What he's faced and has three races so far, the two GP and a sprint race. I'd say anybody facing that would struggle regardless of the vehicle.

Look, he's had a rotten ale run of it, and people say start making excuses Darcy because he's got to the top and he's failing. But the excuses in this case Bob McMurray are extremely relevant. What he's faced and has three races so far, the two GP and a sprint race. I'd say anybody facing that would struggle regardless of the vehicle.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I in all my years in and around the sport, Darcy, and even after I returned from Formula One, I have never ever seen a driver being dropped after two Grand Prix and one sprint race. Three qualifying sessions. Never happened in my experience. I was there when Andrettie was dropped for McLaren and all the Red Bull drivers were dropped half a season. Well, they had a chance. It doesn't seem like Liam Lawson is being given once again, go back to speculation, but it doesn't seem that Liam Lawson has been given any more time in that car than he's had already, which is as much a reflection on the Red Bull engineers, the Red Bull management, and the Red Bull set up for bringing young drivers on. It's as much a reflection on them, in fact, more than it is on Liam. So you know, nobody's going out of this blameless. And if red Bulls think they're going to say, oh we got rid of him because he was no good, absolute rubbish, He is good. He is a good driver and he's proven that. As I said before.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I in all my years in and around the sport, Darcy, and even after I returned from Formula One, I have never ever seen a driver being dropped after two Grand Prix and one sprint race. Three qualifying sessions. Never happened in my experience. I was there when Andrettie was dropped for McLaren and all the Red Bull drivers were dropped half a season. Well, they had a chance. It doesn't seem like Liam Lawson is being given once again, go back to speculation, but it doesn't seem that Liam Lawson has been given any more time in that car than he's had already, which is as much a reflection on the Red Bull engineers, the Red Bull management, and the Red Bull set up for bringing young drivers on. It's as much a reflection on them, in fact, more than it is on Liam. So you know, nobody's going out of this blameless. And if red Bulls think they're going to say, oh we got rid of him because he was no good, absolute rubbish, He is good. He is a good driver and he's proven that. As I said before.

Taking firm aim with the biggest gun, they've got at their feet yet again, as I said, the common denominator is the car, therefore the team. So instead of addressing that they just tuning through drivers is going to be the fifth one? Now will they not learn? What are they hoping for? What are they waiting for?

Taking firm aim with the biggest gun, they've got at their feet yet again, as I said, the common denominator is the car, therefore the team. So instead of addressing that they just tuning through drivers is going to be the fifth one? Now will they not learn? What are they hoping for? What are they waiting for?

Bob Open, for Max, for stap in two point zero? And that ain't going to happen. They come along once in a generation, you know, they come along with a Schumacher and then a Hamilton, then of a Stappen. You don't they just don't wind them up from before the way to have treated this in the first place. And hindsight is great. But he's not lost yet, is what Mercedes did with Antonelli. Gave him eleven thousand kilometers approximately of testing time in that car. Lim Lawson's had six Grand Prix whatever it was last year in a Visa cash app. He's had a couple of a good few simulated sessions. He's had maybe one and a half days at Bahrain when half the time the car was in the garage. He's had a practice or a practice session that was disrupted in Australia, a place he hadn't driven before at He's had various systems put on the car, taken off the car, put on the car. It's a different car, has been almost different car every time he's gone out, has had the weather issues in Australia. What good knows? What has the guy got to do to get a clean race? Just a clean race is all he needs, but he needs three or four or five of them. So yeah, that's that's where I'd blame the red ball management completely.

Bob Open, for Max, for stap in two point zero? And that ain't going to happen. They come along once in a generation, you know, they come along with a Schumacher and then a Hamilton, then of a Stappen. You don't they just don't wind them up from before the way to have treated this in the first place. And hindsight is great. But he's not lost yet, is what Mercedes did with Antonelli. Gave him eleven thousand kilometers approximately of testing time in that car. Lim Lawson's had six Grand Prix whatever it was last year in a Visa cash app. He's had a couple of a good few simulated sessions. He's had maybe one and a half days at Bahrain when half the time the car was in the garage. He's had a practice or a practice session that was disrupted in Australia, a place he hadn't driven before at He's had various systems put on the car, taken off the car, put on the car. It's a different car, has been almost different car every time he's gone out, has had the weather issues in Australia. What good knows? What has the guy got to do to get a clean race? Just a clean race is all he needs, but he needs three or four or five of them. So yeah, that's that's where I'd blame the red ball management completely.

An engineer, well, you know all about the way it works in Formula One. It's hugely ego driven with these guys that run this show. So how much of this is a sting toward the guys like Horner who gave laws and the drive It hasn't been immediately successful. Are the feeling it pens from an ego point of view?

An engineer, well, you know all about the way it works in Formula One. It's hugely ego driven with these guys that run this show. So how much of this is a sting toward the guys like Horner who gave laws and the drive It hasn't been immediately successful. Are the feeling it pens from an ego point of view?

I guess no, I don't think it's an ego point of view, necessarily. I think it is purely driven by the fact they think they're superior in their team to most other teams and they need another driver equal to Maxistappen to be the number two driver, and they're looking at the points, the points disappearing at the moment because Liam frankly is not scoring any points at all, has not scored any points at all. And what is more worrying from their point of view is that there's Max for Stapping, vying for pole position, not making it. It's not getting in there because the car is difficult for him to drive this year, and Liam not getting out of last position. This is the problem. If Liam was closer and closer and closer, then fine, it would they'd give him more of a chance. So I don't think it's an ego thing. I think they are desperately hunting for something that doesn't exist, and that is somebody that can chat Max for Stappen and possibly beat him for the future if Max decides to leave. So no, I'm not sure it's ego, although the ego in Red Bull is possibly only exceeded by the the riches that they've got. So no, I don't you know if it's if it's a confidence thing, give him confidence, get him confidently. The thing they should do immediately is take him back to Red Bull's base. They should have done it already. Give him any this endless, endless hours in the simulator at Suzuka the next race, then Bahrain the race after that, both of which he's driven at, and then maybe jeddo give him a bit of experience for that. But the only but the engineers are the ones when he says I'm over steering, I can't wunetize. The engineers are looking at one, looking at the ones, looking at the data. They can say, then okay, what you're doing is this? What you're doing is that for him to leap into that car, probably with great, great anticipation of what he's going to do, and then be let down by the engineers just not being able to give him the car that he can drive, which is, in my opinion, what is happening. I think that is just unconscionable by the team itself.

I guess no, I don't think it's an ego point of view, necessarily. I think it is purely driven by the fact they think they're superior in their team to most other teams and they need another driver equal to Maxistappen to be the number two driver, and they're looking at the points, the points disappearing at the moment because Liam frankly is not scoring any points at all, has not scored any points at all. And what is more worrying from their point of view is that there's Max for Stapping, vying for pole position, not making it. It's not getting in there because the car is difficult for him to drive this year, and Liam not getting out of last position. This is the problem. If Liam was closer and closer and closer, then fine, it would they'd give him more of a chance. So I don't think it's an ego thing. I think they are desperately hunting for something that doesn't exist, and that is somebody that can chat Max for Stappen and possibly beat him for the future if Max decides to leave. So no, I'm not sure it's ego, although the ego in Red Bull is possibly only exceeded by the the riches that they've got. So no, I don't you know if it's if it's a confidence thing, give him confidence, get him confidently. The thing they should do immediately is take him back to Red Bull's base. They should have done it already. Give him any this endless, endless hours in the simulator at Suzuka the next race, then Bahrain the race after that, both of which he's driven at, and then maybe jeddo give him a bit of experience for that. But the only but the engineers are the ones when he says I'm over steering, I can't wunetize. The engineers are looking at one, looking at the ones, looking at the data. They can say, then okay, what you're doing is this? What you're doing is that for him to leap into that car, probably with great, great anticipation of what he's going to do, and then be let down by the engineers just not being able to give him the car that he can drive, which is, in my opinion, what is happening. I think that is just unconscionable by the team itself.

Even Max vers Steppen has come out and said this car is hard to drive, and it's designed for him. It gets the struggle that Liam's got so the question is Yiki Sonoda Is he the answer? The Racing Balls car that he's in, Yeah, is performing well, easier to drive, so they switched them. At worst, Liam gets dropped kicked altogether, but he switches back to Racing Ball and Yuki goes to the red Ball at his home track at Suzukah where Liam has raced very well as well. Is that going to actually solve anything or answer any questions?

Even Max vers Steppen has come out and said this car is hard to drive, and it's designed for him. It gets the struggle that Liam's got so the question is Yiki Sonoda Is he the answer? The Racing Balls car that he's in, Yeah, is performing well, easier to drive, so they switched them. At worst, Liam gets dropped kicked altogether, but he switches back to Racing Ball and Yuki goes to the red Ball at his home track at Suzukah where Liam has raced very well as well. Is that going to actually solve anything or answer any questions?

Bob, Well, that's the question to be answered, isn't it. Is he going to be better or worse or the same. He comes in, incidentally, with a huge amount of money that apparently Honda have put up to get him into into this situation to drive at Suzuka. They've come up with a seven figure amounts or seven figures to me, there's an awful lot of zeros and not too many numbers at the moment at the front, so they've paid a huge amount of money to get him into the car, which once again doesn't vote well for Lidian Lawson. I don't know that he's going to be any better. I don't know that he's got any more experience than Liam, unless they are doing what I just said, and they've got him in the simulator in England, just running through every possible scenario with him, which if they have decided to make this move they are undoubtedly doing because they've got to bring him up to speed. They probably would have learned their lesson with Liam not having enough experience to get into that car. The problem that then comes up with Liam is if he the best scenario out of all this, providing he's not dropped, that's the very best scenario. The second scenario is that he goes to racing bulls in place of Sonoda and he gets comfortable back in that car and he starts racing fast and beats Sonoda. That's the first thing, and then by getting comfortable in the car, he can get more confidence racing and that sort of stuff. By doing that, he probably won't go back to RB because they have never re employed a driver, so he's if this happens, then he's probably out of it completely. But if that happens, with getting more and more experience in the Visa Cash Chapel, he's putting himself on the showcase again for any other teams that might want to pick up a driver that is proving himself to be quite good. He's got to do that business, of course, But the nest case scenario is that he is out of the team completely because Helmut Marco has been talking to Flavortory and Oliver Oaks of the helping team asking about the availability of Colo Pinto Franco Colopinto. They want to put him into the junior team. I'm not sure that will happen because I think Briratory wants to keep hold of him. So there's all sorts of scenarios that potentially if this comes off, potentially you're going to be faced with Liam. So how it's going to work out, I'm not sure. I honestly don't know. I don't think any of us going until Red Bull actually make some sort of announcement.

Bob, Well, that's the question to be answered, isn't it. Is he going to be better or worse or the same. He comes in, incidentally, with a huge amount of money that apparently Honda have put up to get him into into this situation to drive at Suzuka. They've come up with a seven figure amounts or seven figures to me, there's an awful lot of zeros and not too many numbers at the moment at the front, so they've paid a huge amount of money to get him into the car, which once again doesn't vote well for Lidian Lawson. I don't know that he's going to be any better. I don't know that he's got any more experience than Liam, unless they are doing what I just said, and they've got him in the simulator in England, just running through every possible scenario with him, which if they have decided to make this move they are undoubtedly doing because they've got to bring him up to speed. They probably would have learned their lesson with Liam not having enough experience to get into that car. The problem that then comes up with Liam is if he the best scenario out of all this, providing he's not dropped, that's the very best scenario. The second scenario is that he goes to racing bulls in place of Sonoda and he gets comfortable back in that car and he starts racing fast and beats Sonoda. That's the first thing, and then by getting comfortable in the car, he can get more confidence racing and that sort of stuff. By doing that, he probably won't go back to RB because they have never re employed a driver, so he's if this happens, then he's probably out of it completely. But if that happens, with getting more and more experience in the Visa Cash Chapel, he's putting himself on the showcase again for any other teams that might want to pick up a driver that is proving himself to be quite good. He's got to do that business, of course, But the nest case scenario is that he is out of the team completely because Helmut Marco has been talking to Flavortory and Oliver Oaks of the helping team asking about the availability of Colo Pinto Franco Colopinto. They want to put him into the junior team. I'm not sure that will happen because I think Briratory wants to keep hold of him. So there's all sorts of scenarios that potentially if this comes off, potentially you're going to be faced with Liam. So how it's going to work out, I'm not sure. I honestly don't know. I don't think any of us going until Red Bull actually make some sort of announcement.

One thing you do know is Liam Lawson, you've tracked them right the way through from the early days right through toy in a racing model was called. Then mentally, how is this going to be affecting Liam Lawson? Is the mental dessindigration on here? Do you think that he's strong enough to get through this regardless of what happens.

One thing you do know is Liam Lawson, you've tracked them right the way through from the early days right through toy in a racing model was called. Then mentally, how is this going to be affecting Liam Lawson? Is the mental dessindigration on here? Do you think that he's strong enough to get through this regardless of what happens.

I don't think so. I mean it's going to affect anybody, you know, any one of us trying to put ourselves in a scenario where you've got a job and you've been dumped out of that job that you've been headhunted for after just a weekend work. That is not a good scenario for anybody. But knowingly and being fair for Liam, every single interview he's given since he got in that car, so it was saying, basically, I've got to do better. I don't have time. You know I need time, but I don't have time. It's not good enough. I've got to do better. So he's not shying away from it. He's admitting the fact that you know, he can see the riding on the wall as well as any one of us. He's in the middle of it, and he's been given the word I'm sure by the good doctor Helmet Marco. So the mere fact that he's still there is his testament to his strength. And he hasn't collapsed in a heap of tears in the corner. He is still driving as hard as he possibly can and talking to the engineers as best he can and all that sort of stuff. So he is a resilient person. He's very resilient as a driver. He had to be to hang about red Bull all those years when they kept him on and said, yeah, yeah, you're going to get a drive. You're going to get a drive. Any any driver could have given up at any point during that, but he I believe he's got the capability to do it. And I believe, as Max of Stappan has already said, if Liam went down to the junior team, he would he would excel, he would be faster because the cars are better. And I think Liam might actually think to himself, Okay, you know this hasn't worked for me. I've got to do something better. I've got to work harder and if I drop down a league into the junior team, that's okay, that's okay. I just got to get my head down and get on with it again with the car.

I don't think so. I mean it's going to affect anybody, you know, any one of us trying to put ourselves in a scenario where you've got a job and you've been dumped out of that job that you've been headhunted for after just a weekend work. That is not a good scenario for anybody. But knowingly and being fair for Liam, every single interview he's given since he got in that car, so it was saying, basically, I've got to do better. I don't have time. You know I need time, but I don't have time. It's not good enough. I've got to do better. So he's not shying away from it. He's admitting the fact that you know, he can see the riding on the wall as well as any one of us. He's in the middle of it, and he's been given the word I'm sure by the good doctor Helmet Marco. So the mere fact that he's still there is his testament to his strength. And he hasn't collapsed in a heap of tears in the corner. He is still driving as hard as he possibly can and talking to the engineers as best he can and all that sort of stuff. So he is a resilient person. He's very resilient as a driver. He had to be to hang about red Bull all those years when they kept him on and said, yeah, yeah, you're going to get a drive. You're going to get a drive. Any any driver could have given up at any point during that, but he I believe he's got the capability to do it. And I believe, as Max of Stappan has already said, if Liam went down to the junior team, he would he would excel, he would be faster because the cars are better. And I think Liam might actually think to himself, Okay, you know this hasn't worked for me. I've got to do something better. I've got to work harder and if I drop down a league into the junior team, that's okay, that's okay. I just got to get my head down and get on with it again with the car.

And could you do this in Layman's turn, Bob mcnuran, as always, thanks for your time and the expertise. What makes it are incredibly difficult to drive?

And could you do this in Layman's turn, Bob mcnuran, as always, thanks for your time and the expertise. What makes it are incredibly difficult to drive?

Well, let's start off with Maxwell Stappan is the one that's been earning points a year on year on year, and he's the one that they you know, pieces, I want a balloon under my seat and there's going to be a balloon under your seat. Whatever he wants on that car to make it faster for him and to win is going to be done. Therefore, when they design new chassis, it's not a question of just adjusting things necessarily for Liam Lawson. Inherently, when they design a whole new car, you've got to think about the things that begin to the bottom. Where is the center of gravity of the car going to be, Where is the driving position going to be. What suspension are we going to use, push rob pull rod that sort of thing. How is the engine going to be attached to the chassis. What gearbox is going to work? So all these things are fundamental things that you cannot change in the blink of an eye. It takes a whole new car to do that. They haven't done it yet. They've never made a car that is unsuitable for Max. Forstappen, perhaps he's having difficulty with this one, but although it's not designed around him, it's designed to do the things that he wants in the car. Now, he has a particularly aggressive Droga style on turning into corners, very sharply into corners. He needs the front of the car to work immediately. No other car has that you listen to all the other drivers that have gone through there, no other car has got that, or no other driver has been able to conquer that. And Liam is another one that has never driven a car with such a very sharp turning and unbelievably catlike sort of reflexes to whatever Max is doing behind the car. So it's not a question of just putting a wing on or adjusting the front or winding the shock absorbers up a little bit. It's the fundamental characteristics of the basic parts of the car that you can don't change inside of eighteen months.

Well, let's start off with Maxwell Stappan is the one that's been earning points a year on year on year, and he's the one that they you know, pieces, I want a balloon under my seat and there's going to be a balloon under your seat. Whatever he wants on that car to make it faster for him and to win is going to be done. Therefore, when they design new chassis, it's not a question of just adjusting things necessarily for Liam Lawson. Inherently, when they design a whole new car, you've got to think about the things that begin to the bottom. Where is the center of gravity of the car going to be, Where is the driving position going to be. What suspension are we going to use, push rob pull rod that sort of thing. How is the engine going to be attached to the chassis. What gearbox is going to work? So all these things are fundamental things that you cannot change in the blink of an eye. It takes a whole new car to do that. They haven't done it yet. They've never made a car that is unsuitable for Max. Forstappen, perhaps he's having difficulty with this one, but although it's not designed around him, it's designed to do the things that he wants in the car. Now, he has a particularly aggressive Droga style on turning into corners, very sharply into corners. He needs the front of the car to work immediately. No other car has that you listen to all the other drivers that have gone through there, no other car has got that, or no other driver has been able to conquer that. And Liam is another one that has never driven a car with such a very sharp turning and unbelievably catlike sort of reflexes to whatever Max is doing behind the car. So it's not a question of just putting a wing on or adjusting the front or winding the shock absorbers up a little bit. It's the fundamental characteristics of the basic parts of the car that you can don't change inside of eighteen months.

So you can't lean down and grab their little piece of plastic under your steering and just wedge it up a couple just the Seaton, Bob, thanks so much as always, a real pleasure speaking to you about Formula one. Hey, Suzuka is a week and a half away. Enjoy it because it is a stunning race regardless of what happens such as Formula one. Thanks for your time as always.

So you can't lean down and grab their little piece of plastic under your steering and just wedge it up a couple just the Seaton, Bob, thanks so much as always, a real pleasure speaking to you about Formula one. Hey, Suzuka is a week and a half away. Enjoy it because it is a stunning race regardless of what happens such as Formula one. Thanks for your time as always.

Tiers Darcy. But if Liam's not there, I'll look at it with slightly different eyes, I've got to say.

Tiers Darcy. But if Liam's not there, I'll look at it with slightly different eyes, I've got to say.

For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks. It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

For more from Sports Talk, listen live to News Talks. It'd be from seven pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio