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We have a lot to catch up on, unpacking four days of news here and what was in fact a very busy Thanksgiving weekend in the world of politics, culminating with the announcement last evening by Joe Biden offering a full and unconditional pardon to his son Hunter. This is something that of course came late yesterday and has been driving the news ever since, following word earlier in the weekend that Donald Trump was tapping Cash Patel to be the next director of the FBI, even though we already have a director of the FBI, and potentially connecting some of the here might be part of our job today. Knowing that retribution and the dismantling of the agency that he has been tapped to run is part of the charge. If Cash Betel is in fact confirmed, want to start though our conversation on this pardon from Joe Biden, who has just touched down in Africa, as a matter of fact, on a three day trip. He left the country shortly after issuing this unconditional pardon. Wendy Benjamins in Bloomberg's Washington senior editor is with us helping to drive our political coverage from Washington. Wendy, it's great to have you. The scope and breadth of this pardon is what is making news, almost as much as the fact that Joe Biden essentially changed his mind on this, turned on his pledge to never issue a pardon to Hunter Biden, what changed.

We have a lot to catch up on, unpacking four days of news here and what was in fact a very busy Thanksgiving weekend in the world of politics, culminating with the announcement last evening by Joe Biden offering a full and unconditional pardon to his son Hunter. This is something that of course came late yesterday and has been driving the news ever since, following word earlier in the weekend that Donald Trump was tapping Cash Patel to be the next director of the FBI, even though we already have a director of the FBI, and potentially connecting some of the here might be part of our job today. Knowing that retribution and the dismantling of the agency that he has been tapped to run is part of the charge. If Cash Betel is in fact confirmed, want to start though our conversation on this pardon from Joe Biden, who has just touched down in Africa, as a matter of fact, on a three day trip. He left the country shortly after issuing this unconditional pardon. Wendy Benjamins in Bloomberg's Washington senior editor is with us helping to drive our political coverage from Washington. Wendy, it's great to have you. The scope and breadth of this pardon is what is making news, almost as much as the fact that Joe Biden essentially changed his mind on this, turned on his pledge to never issue a pardon to Hunter Biden, what changed.

You know, We've seen some It's hard to tell, Joe, but we've seen some reporting that suggests that the family got together over Thanksgiving and talked it out, and the President just decided to throw everything he has said, his tradition of upholding institutions, his tradition since he was a twenty nine year old senator, of coloring within the lines, and pardoning his son for a number of felonies related to gun and tax charges. It was really a stunning reversal of everything we've known Joe Biden to stand for. And then literally moments later, an hour later, maybe he leaves for Africa. You can really tell this guy has done with his job.

You know, We've seen some It's hard to tell, Joe, but we've seen some reporting that suggests that the family got together over Thanksgiving and talked it out, and the President just decided to throw everything he has said, his tradition of upholding institutions, his tradition since he was a twenty nine year old senator, of coloring within the lines, and pardoning his son for a number of felonies related to gun and tax charges. It was really a stunning reversal of everything we've known Joe Biden to stand for. And then literally moments later, an hour later, maybe he leaves for Africa. You can really tell this guy has done with his job.

I guess things are winding down, Wendy, and knowing that there will likely be more pardons to follow, we keep our focus on this one.

I guess things are winding down, Wendy, and knowing that there will likely be more pardons to follow, we keep our focus on this one.

Hunter.

Hunter.

Biden was facing two separate sentencings this month on the convictions that we've already discussed, some gun charges here, three felony gun charges, as well as the federal tax crimes that he pleaded guilty to. There was a thought, Wendy, that there might be more where these came from, because the pardon covers more than just these.

Biden was facing two separate sentencings this month on the convictions that we've already discussed, some gun charges here, three felony gun charges, as well as the federal tax crimes that he pleaded guilty to. There was a thought, Wendy, that there might be more where these came from, because the pardon covers more than just these.

Well, that is the indication that there might have been more coming. This pardon covers everything he might have done in the decade between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty four and so it's who knows what those you know, other charges might have been or might not have been. There might have been nothing, and he just wanted to keep it very tightly wrapped. But it was an unusual pardon for even for presidents who pardon a lot of people, including Donald Trump, who has pardoned a number of friends and relatives in his first term.

Well, that is the indication that there might have been more coming. This pardon covers everything he might have done in the decade between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty four and so it's who knows what those you know, other charges might have been or might not have been. There might have been nothing, and he just wanted to keep it very tightly wrapped. But it was an unusual pardon for even for presidents who pardon a lot of people, including Donald Trump, who has pardoned a number of friends and relatives in his first term.

That's true.

That's true.

The Kushners and Steve Bannons of the world however, don't seem to match up to this because of the full throated nature of the pardon and the fact that Joe Biden said he would never do it. Some Democrats aren't happy. It's not just Republicans raising eyebrows here. Wendy the governor of Colorado. Jared Poulus, who by the way, was a surrogate for the Harris campaign, called it quote a bad precedent, could be abused by later president cidence and will sadly tarnish his reputation unquote pretty tough stuff. Greg Stanton, the first Democratic lawmaker from the House of Representatives to speak up, said Hunter committed felonies is when and was convicted by a jury of his peers. Remembering that Joe Biden ran on the fact that no one was above the law. It was what was supposed to make him different than Donald Trump. What does this tell us now about the way he'll be remembered.

The Kushners and Steve Bannons of the world however, don't seem to match up to this because of the full throated nature of the pardon and the fact that Joe Biden said he would never do it. Some Democrats aren't happy. It's not just Republicans raising eyebrows here. Wendy the governor of Colorado. Jared Poulus, who by the way, was a surrogate for the Harris campaign, called it quote a bad precedent, could be abused by later president cidence and will sadly tarnish his reputation unquote pretty tough stuff. Greg Stanton, the first Democratic lawmaker from the House of Representatives to speak up, said Hunter committed felonies is when and was convicted by a jury of his peers. Remembering that Joe Biden ran on the fact that no one was above the law. It was what was supposed to make him different than Donald Trump. What does this tell us now about the way he'll be remembered.

Well, it couldn't have been a bigger gift for Donald Trump if he had wrapped it up and put it under the tree.

Well, it couldn't have been a bigger gift for Donald Trump if he had wrapped it up and put it under the tree.

And it's it.

And it's it.

Gives Donald Trump every political avenue to say. See, even Joe Biden says.

Gives Donald Trump every political avenue to say. See, even Joe Biden says.

His doj is weaponized.

His doj is weaponized.

You know, and look he's favoring his son. It was a really, you know, a really strong political decision to just sort of drop this grenade and walk out of the presidency because it's a message to people who have drug addictions and have gone to prison who do not get pardoned by the president. It is a message to tax evaders that they can get away, that they can't get away with it, but the president's son can. And again, just a real gift to Donald Trump and his team. Didn't waste a moment last night coming out and saying exactly that.

You know, and look he's favoring his son. It was a really, you know, a really strong political decision to just sort of drop this grenade and walk out of the presidency because it's a message to people who have drug addictions and have gone to prison who do not get pardoned by the president. It is a message to tax evaders that they can get away, that they can't get away with it, but the president's son can. And again, just a real gift to Donald Trump and his team. Didn't waste a moment last night coming out and saying exactly that.

To take from Wendy Benjamins in Bloomberg's Washington Senior editor, Wendy, it's great to see you and appreciate the insights as we add a voice of experience. Have been looking forward to the conversation with Nick Ackerman, the former federal prosecutor, former assistant special Watergate prosecutor, former assistant US attorney is with us. Nick Ackerman, great to see you and welcome back. Wendy just described this pardon as a grenade, How would you.

To take from Wendy Benjamins in Bloomberg's Washington Senior editor, Wendy, it's great to see you and appreciate the insights as we add a voice of experience. Have been looking forward to the conversation with Nick Ackerman, the former federal prosecutor, former assistant special Watergate prosecutor, former assistant US attorney is with us. Nick Ackerman, great to see you and welcome back. Wendy just described this pardon as a grenade, How would you.

Well, I think you have to really look at what's going on here. To me, it's not so much a grenade I think what President Biden realized was that Hunter Biden was going to be in the target of Donald Trump's wretch and if he went through the criminal justice system and continued was sentenced to prison, which he very well could have been sentenced on the tax case for a period of time, he then would be at the mercy of Donald Trump's Justice Department and Bureau of Prisons, and this would have given Donald Trump the opportunity to do what they did to his former attorney Michael Cohen, where they put him in solitary confinement, where when he was released to go home because of the COVID epidemic, he was put back into prison again despite to keep him from publishing a book. So I think what's really going on here is if Joe Biden had actually won the not Joe Biden, but Harris had won the election, I don't think there would be a pardon. But I don't think he really trusts a justice department that's headed by Pam Bundy, donald Trump's two defense lawyers from New York, and Cash Patel, who is going to be the FBI director, to give anybody a fair shake in the system. And for that reason, I think that is why he ultimately decided to pardon his son.

Well, I think you have to really look at what's going on here. To me, it's not so much a grenade I think what President Biden realized was that Hunter Biden was going to be in the target of Donald Trump's wretch and if he went through the criminal justice system and continued was sentenced to prison, which he very well could have been sentenced on the tax case for a period of time, he then would be at the mercy of Donald Trump's Justice Department and Bureau of Prisons, and this would have given Donald Trump the opportunity to do what they did to his former attorney Michael Cohen, where they put him in solitary confinement, where when he was released to go home because of the COVID epidemic, he was put back into prison again despite to keep him from publishing a book. So I think what's really going on here is if Joe Biden had actually won the not Joe Biden, but Harris had won the election, I don't think there would be a pardon. But I don't think he really trusts a justice department that's headed by Pam Bundy, donald Trump's two defense lawyers from New York, and Cash Patel, who is going to be the FBI director, to give anybody a fair shake in the system. And for that reason, I think that is why he ultimately decided to pardon his son.

Well, okay, so you're answering one of the questions that I have been asking Nick Ackerman. It's these appointments that made the difference. When the Biden family sat down for Thanksgiving on Nantucket, they had the big family conversation, That's what was different. And then you add Cash Patel over the weekend and Joe Biden started writing this pardon. Is that how it went in your mind?

Well, okay, so you're answering one of the questions that I have been asking Nick Ackerman. It's these appointments that made the difference. When the Biden family sat down for Thanksgiving on Nantucket, they had the big family conversation, That's what was different. And then you add Cash Patel over the weekend and Joe Biden started writing this pardon. Is that how it went in your mind?

Yeah? I think so. I mean, look, what would you do if it was your son and you knew that the guy who was going to be president next had already threatened di rectribution against you and your son? The very son that Donald Trump sent Rudy Giuliani across halfway across the world to Ukraine to try and dig up dirt on him and absolutely got nothing, but went to those lengths and has already threatened retribution against the Bidens. You know, what would you do under these circumstances, knowing that the Justice Department was going to be totally manned by political hacks who are answerable to Donald Trump.

Yeah? I think so. I mean, look, what would you do if it was your son and you knew that the guy who was going to be president next had already threatened di rectribution against you and your son? The very son that Donald Trump sent Rudy Giuliani across halfway across the world to Ukraine to try and dig up dirt on him and absolutely got nothing, but went to those lengths and has already threatened retribution against the Bidens. You know, what would you do under these circumstances, knowing that the Justice Department was going to be totally manned by political hacks who are answerable to Donald Trump.

I'm going to ask you about some of these appointments because I'm really curious to get your take, Joe Biden wrote, though, and I just want to get your take as a former prosecutor. He wrote in his statement, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of Hunter's cases can reach any other conclusion that Hunter was singled out only because he is my son, and that is wrong, he said, And trying to break Hunter. They've tried to break me. Now, clearly this is personal for Joe Biden. But what is the prosecutor in you say when you read that.

I'm going to ask you about some of these appointments because I'm really curious to get your take, Joe Biden wrote, though, and I just want to get your take as a former prosecutor. He wrote in his statement, no reasonable person who looks at the facts of Hunter's cases can reach any other conclusion that Hunter was singled out only because he is my son, and that is wrong, he said, And trying to break Hunter. They've tried to break me. Now, clearly this is personal for Joe Biden. But what is the prosecutor in you say when you read that.

Well, there's a little bit of truth here. First of all, as to the arm the gun violation, no one is ever prosecuted for that by itself. It's always in connection with something with drugs or some other act. When you have something here where Hunter Biden had the gun for only ten days, never did anything with it. It really does raise a question as to whether or not he would have ever been prosecuted but for the fact he was the son of the president. As to the tax violations, even that raises some issues. Don't forget during that period of time where he didn't report income he was a drug addict. He later paid back all of the tax. It was doe and owing pretty unusual for the Department of Justice to prosecute somebody under those circumstances, not totally though out of the ordinary. But again it does raise a question as to whether or not if he were not the son of the President, that he would not have been prosecuted for these tax violations. So there is some truth to that. We don't really know the answer to it, but it's not off the wall. Put it that way.

Well, there's a little bit of truth here. First of all, as to the arm the gun violation, no one is ever prosecuted for that by itself. It's always in connection with something with drugs or some other act. When you have something here where Hunter Biden had the gun for only ten days, never did anything with it. It really does raise a question as to whether or not he would have ever been prosecuted but for the fact he was the son of the president. As to the tax violations, even that raises some issues. Don't forget during that period of time where he didn't report income he was a drug addict. He later paid back all of the tax. It was doe and owing pretty unusual for the Department of Justice to prosecute somebody under those circumstances, not totally though out of the ordinary. But again it does raise a question as to whether or not if he were not the son of the President, that he would not have been prosecuted for these tax violations. So there is some truth to that. We don't really know the answer to it, but it's not off the wall. Put it that way.

I want to ask thank you about the aforementioned Cash Pattel on some of the other appointments that we have learned about the past few days. In the wake of Matt Gates withdrawing his name for consideration as the next Attorney General, Patel is the most recent to be the next FBI director, and the reaction that we've heard from even just the Republican side of the aisle has been remarkable, not so much about patel Nick, but about the man who has the job now, the FBI Director, Chris Ray. Chuck Rassley, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee in Coming, said on x Chris Ray has failed at fundamental duties of FBI director. He's shown disdain for Congressional oversight and has not lived up to his promises fast forward to Sunday Morning television. Mike Browns, Republican Senator, said this about mister Ray.

I want to ask thank you about the aforementioned Cash Pattel on some of the other appointments that we have learned about the past few days. In the wake of Matt Gates withdrawing his name for consideration as the next Attorney General, Patel is the most recent to be the next FBI director, and the reaction that we've heard from even just the Republican side of the aisle has been remarkable, not so much about patel Nick, but about the man who has the job now, the FBI Director, Chris Ray. Chuck Rassley, who chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee in Coming, said on x Chris Ray has failed at fundamental duties of FBI director. He's shown disdain for Congressional oversight and has not lived up to his promises fast forward to Sunday Morning television. Mike Browns, Republican Senator, said this about mister Ray.

Chris Ray, who the President nominated the first time around. And I think the President picked a very good man to be the a director of the FBI when he did that in his first term. When we meet with him behind closed doors, I've had no objections to the way that he's handled himself, and so I don't have any complaints about the way that he's done his job.

Chris Ray, who the President nominated the first time around. And I think the President picked a very good man to be the a director of the FBI when he did that in his first term. When we meet with him behind closed doors, I've had no objections to the way that he's handled himself, and so I don't have any complaints about the way that he's done his job.

Right now, Nick Ackerman, what do you make of this? And is Chris Ray suddenly going to resign? Can Donald Trump fire him? I ask you this because you have real memories of the Saturday night massacre.

Right now, Nick Ackerman, what do you make of this? And is Chris Ray suddenly going to resign? Can Donald Trump fire him? I ask you this because you have real memories of the Saturday night massacre.

Oh, of course no, he could resign, but I don't think he would, and he shouldn't. I think he should hang in there. The whole point behind Chris Ray being appointed to a ten year term. Congress changed that a few years back in order that the FBI director would be out of the politics of the situation. The idea was that he'd be appointed by a president could be removed only for misconduct. Certainly, there's been no misconduct on his part. Everybody says, except for a few partisans that he has done a good job and there's no reason to fire him. The whole idea is you want somebody as director of the FBI who is independent, is not beholden to the president, and handles his job in a way that makes the public feel that he's doing the right thing and he's not doing it for politics. Certainly, Chris Hay Christopher Ray cannot be criticized for doing anything that was political. He's done it by the book. He's been a good director, and I think putting somebody in who again is a total political hack, has no experience in this area whatsoever, other than to carry out Donald Trump's retribution is really reprehensible.

Oh, of course no, he could resign, but I don't think he would, and he shouldn't. I think he should hang in there. The whole point behind Chris Ray being appointed to a ten year term. Congress changed that a few years back in order that the FBI director would be out of the politics of the situation. The idea was that he'd be appointed by a president could be removed only for misconduct. Certainly, there's been no misconduct on his part. Everybody says, except for a few partisans that he has done a good job and there's no reason to fire him. The whole idea is you want somebody as director of the FBI who is independent, is not beholden to the president, and handles his job in a way that makes the public feel that he's doing the right thing and he's not doing it for politics. Certainly, Chris Hay Christopher Ray cannot be criticized for doing anything that was political. He's done it by the book. He's been a good director, and I think putting somebody in who again is a total political hack, has no experience in this area whatsoever, other than to carry out Donald Trump's retribution is really reprehensible.

Well, this is a ten year term, right.

Well, this is a ten year term, right.

That was the whole point is that they would outlast any particular president. I believe that comes from Watergate, which you are intimately familiar with.

That was the whole point is that they would outlast any particular president. I believe that comes from Watergate, which you are intimately familiar with.

Here, does Chris.

Here, does Chris.

Rages hold the line?

Rages hold the line?

What if he doesn't leave?

What if he doesn't leave?

Well, I think he should hold the line and he forced Donald Trump to fire him. If that's what Donald Trump is going to do. I mean, the president does have the right under the statute to fire the FBI director, but the reason that he's doing it is really reprehensible. The idea that he wants somebody in office that's going to act to carry out his retribution against his political enemies is not the kind of person that you want as director of the FBI.

Well, I think he should hold the line and he forced Donald Trump to fire him. If that's what Donald Trump is going to do. I mean, the president does have the right under the statute to fire the FBI director, but the reason that he's doing it is really reprehensible. The idea that he wants somebody in office that's going to act to carry out his retribution against his political enemies is not the kind of person that you want as director of the FBI.

Well I mentioned Chuck Grassley. He may not be a Chris Ray fan, but he's a big Pam Bondi fan, and he is walking her through the halls of the Senate today and this week ahead of her confirmation hearings. What is your thought on an Attorney General Bondy and the change that she would bring to the Justice Department.

Well I mentioned Chuck Grassley. He may not be a Chris Ray fan, but he's a big Pam Bondi fan, and he is walking her through the halls of the Senate today and this week ahead of her confirmation hearings. What is your thought on an Attorney General Bondy and the change that she would bring to the Justice Department.

Well, again, she is somebody that is not going to have any independence whatsoever. She's going to do whatever Donald Trump asked her to do. She was involved in his past two political campaigns and runs for president. Before he ran for president, Pam Bondi was investigating Trump University, but after she got a twenty five thousand dollars contribution from Donald Trump for her campaign, she suddenly dropped that investigation. So again, we're looking at somebody who is not an independent actor, who is really going to be just an arm of Donald Trump's retribution campaign and is not going to instill a lot of confidence in our justice system. Being meeted out equally and fairly to everybody.

Well, again, she is somebody that is not going to have any independence whatsoever. She's going to do whatever Donald Trump asked her to do. She was involved in his past two political campaigns and runs for president. Before he ran for president, Pam Bondi was investigating Trump University, but after she got a twenty five thousand dollars contribution from Donald Trump for her campaign, she suddenly dropped that investigation. So again, we're looking at somebody who is not an independent actor, who is really going to be just an arm of Donald Trump's retribution campaign and is not going to instill a lot of confidence in our justice system. Being meeted out equally and fairly to everybody.

But after Matt Gates, now Cash Bettel, some of the others that I could mention, she suddenly looks like captain of Team Normal right next she gets confirmed.

But after Matt Gates, now Cash Bettel, some of the others that I could mention, she suddenly looks like captain of Team Normal right next she gets confirmed.

Well she may, but I think if the Senate does their job, they ought to be looking at this issue of independence. Are the people in the Department of Justice acting independently from the president as all of these attorney generals have done since time of Watergate, that has been the standard, that has been the norm. Instead, what Donald Trump has done is he's installed in the attorney general, He's installed a deputy Attorney General that was his criminal defense lawyer, his aid, it was the other criminal defense lawyer. And now you've got Cash Patel. What you have are all political appointments that are beholden to Donald Trump that will essentially do whatever Donald Trump asked them to do. And why that is so dangerous is because Donald Trump has promised to perpetrate retribution on his political enemies and the place that he can do it from and do it most easily is the Department of Justice.

Well she may, but I think if the Senate does their job, they ought to be looking at this issue of independence. Are the people in the Department of Justice acting independently from the president as all of these attorney generals have done since time of Watergate, that has been the standard, that has been the norm. Instead, what Donald Trump has done is he's installed in the attorney general, He's installed a deputy Attorney General that was his criminal defense lawyer, his aid, it was the other criminal defense lawyer. And now you've got Cash Patel. What you have are all political appointments that are beholden to Donald Trump that will essentially do whatever Donald Trump asked them to do. And why that is so dangerous is because Donald Trump has promised to perpetrate retribution on his political enemies and the place that he can do it from and do it most easily is the Department of Justice.

Nick, we've only got a minute left. We started with the pardon of Hunter Biden. How many more will we hear from Joe Biden.

Nick, we've only got a minute left. We started with the pardon of Hunter Biden. How many more will we hear from Joe Biden.

Oh, I don't think you're going to get much more. That was it. I mean, I think he came to the realization that he was putting his son in real jeopardy to leave him in the confines of the Justice Department that is going to be run by Donald Trump with those four or five appointments. I wouldn't trust anybody to get a fair shape from that department.

Oh, I don't think you're going to get much more. That was it. I mean, I think he came to the realization that he was putting his son in real jeopardy to leave him in the confines of the Justice Department that is going to be run by Donald Trump with those four or five appointments. I wouldn't trust anybody to get a fair shape from that department.

Nick Ackerman, founder of the Law Office of Nick Ackerman, former Watergate prosecutor. It's great to see you, and welcome back Nick to the conversation. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington on the Fastest Show in Politics with much more on the pardon and the transition. We'll get into these names that we heard over the weekend, including Cash Bettel, with our signature panel coming up. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano are with us right here on the Fastest Show in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg TV.

Nick Ackerman, founder of the Law Office of Nick Ackerman, former Watergate prosecutor. It's great to see you, and welcome back Nick to the conversation. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington on the Fastest Show in Politics with much more on the pardon and the transition. We'll get into these names that we heard over the weekend, including Cash Bettel, with our signature panel coming up. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano are with us right here on the Fastest Show in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg TV.

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Thanks for being with us on Balance of Power here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's the Monday edition and we're glad to have you with us here as we unpack four days worth of news, not only the Hunter Biden pardon, but much more news when it comes to the transition of the incoming Trump administration, much of which we were just talking about with Nick Ackerman. This White House has made pretty clear and in the statement written by Joe Biden reinforced today by Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre, that this pardon may not have happened if Donald Trump had not been elected. Nick Ackerman said that flat out just now here on Bloomberg, the former Watergate prosecutor making it clear that if Kamala Harris had won, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. And it has everything to do with Donald Trump's approach to the Department of Justice, says Nick Ackerman, and the people he's choosing to run it, and agencies like the FBI that was a big moment over the weekend when Donald Trump tapped Cash Patel be the next FBI director, a critic of the deep state, a loyalist at mar A Lago, and one who could bring real change here to the nation's pre eminent law enforcement agency.

Thanks for being with us on Balance of Power here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. It's the Monday edition and we're glad to have you with us here as we unpack four days worth of news, not only the Hunter Biden pardon, but much more news when it comes to the transition of the incoming Trump administration, much of which we were just talking about with Nick Ackerman. This White House has made pretty clear and in the statement written by Joe Biden reinforced today by Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre, that this pardon may not have happened if Donald Trump had not been elected. Nick Ackerman said that flat out just now here on Bloomberg, the former Watergate prosecutor making it clear that if Kamala Harris had won, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. And it has everything to do with Donald Trump's approach to the Department of Justice, says Nick Ackerman, and the people he's choosing to run it, and agencies like the FBI that was a big moment over the weekend when Donald Trump tapped Cash Patel be the next FBI director, a critic of the deep state, a loyalist at mar A Lago, and one who could bring real change here to the nation's pre eminent law enforcement agency.

Of course, depending on who you.

Of course, depending on who you.

Ask, not everybody loves this idea. Some Republicans are concerned about Patel his potential to run the agency. They're also concerned about the fact that we already have an FBI director and Christopher Wray, who would either have to resign or be fired by Donald Trump. Questions to Republican senators who will have to confirm so many of these names, including Bill Haggerty, the Republican Tennessee was asked about Patel on Meet the Press yesterday.

Ask, not everybody loves this idea. Some Republicans are concerned about Patel his potential to run the agency. They're also concerned about the fact that we already have an FBI director and Christopher Wray, who would either have to resign or be fired by Donald Trump. Questions to Republican senators who will have to confirm so many of these names, including Bill Haggerty, the Republican Tennessee was asked about Patel on Meet the Press yesterday.

Listen, President Trump is entitled to name his appointees. That is exactly what he's doing, and I'm going to support this appointment. Cash has worked in national security, he's worked at the Department of Justice, and he's somebody that has been willing to uncover the wrongs at the FBI. He's the one that uncovered for the American public what happened with Russia Gate. He's the one that can see through the fix.

Listen, President Trump is entitled to name his appointees. That is exactly what he's doing, and I'm going to support this appointment. Cash has worked in national security, he's worked at the Department of Justice, and he's somebody that has been willing to uncover the wrongs at the FBI. He's the one that uncovered for the American public what happened with Russia Gate. He's the one that can see through the fix.

Here this is where.

Here this is where.

We begin our conversation with our signature political panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, or with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. He, of course partner at Stone Court Capital. She is political science professor at Iona University, and great to have both of you with us year following what I hope was a great and long weekend for both of you. Rick Davis, your take on this latest naming of names by Donald Trump. Washington has moved on from Matt Gates. We're talking about Pam Bondi now running the Department of Justice, but at Cash Bettel, who has vowed to dismantle the FBI, would mean what for the agency?

We begin our conversation with our signature political panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano, or with us Bloomberg Politics contributors. He, of course partner at Stone Court Capital. She is political science professor at Iona University, and great to have both of you with us year following what I hope was a great and long weekend for both of you. Rick Davis, your take on this latest naming of names by Donald Trump. Washington has moved on from Matt Gates. We're talking about Pam Bondi now running the Department of Justice, but at Cash Bettel, who has vowed to dismantle the FBI, would mean what for the agency?

Yeah, look, I think this is Donald Trump making good on his campaign promises. He said he was going to disrupt the FBI. He felt like the FBI has waged a eight year war against him, starting with the Russia hoax, as he puts it, and going all the way through the Biden administration. You can call it wanting to disrupt the government, bureaucracy, or retribution, whatever your whatever makes you tick, but I think it is important. The clip you played of Senator Haggerty, because Haggerty is a loyalist with Donald Trump in the United States Senate. But he's a reasonable, thoughtful guy, and the fact that he's willing to stick his neck out to blaze a trail for Cash battel in the Senate means more likely that he is going to get through a confirmation hearing, assuming, as you point out, that there's a vacancy because Donald Trump appointed the current FBI director and he'll have to probably fire him in order to get a vacancy for Cash Patel. All of that is yet to be done and obviously can't happen until he takes the oath of office.

Yeah, look, I think this is Donald Trump making good on his campaign promises. He said he was going to disrupt the FBI. He felt like the FBI has waged a eight year war against him, starting with the Russia hoax, as he puts it, and going all the way through the Biden administration. You can call it wanting to disrupt the government, bureaucracy, or retribution, whatever your whatever makes you tick, but I think it is important. The clip you played of Senator Haggerty, because Haggerty is a loyalist with Donald Trump in the United States Senate. But he's a reasonable, thoughtful guy, and the fact that he's willing to stick his neck out to blaze a trail for Cash battel in the Senate means more likely that he is going to get through a confirmation hearing, assuming, as you point out, that there's a vacancy because Donald Trump appointed the current FBI director and he'll have to probably fire him in order to get a vacancy for Cash Patel. All of that is yet to be done and obviously can't happen until he takes the oath of office.

Yeah, and the dismantling of Christopher Ray is apparently going to precede the dismantling of the agency. Look no further than Chuck Grassley Genie Shansey, No, the incoming head of the same Judiciary Committee who's walking pan Bondi through the halls of the Senate here on X quote, Chris Ray has failed at fundamental duty as of FBI director. He's shown disdain for Congressional oversight and has not lived up to his promises. It's time to chart a new course for transparency accountability at FBI. That's a pretty stark reaction when we hear the likes of Mike Rounds, for instance, saying that Christopher Ray, I believe he said a very good man. He said, picked a very good man to be director when he did it in the first term. This was a Trump appointee. What did Christopher Ray do to deserve being fired?

Yeah, and the dismantling of Christopher Ray is apparently going to precede the dismantling of the agency. Look no further than Chuck Grassley Genie Shansey, No, the incoming head of the same Judiciary Committee who's walking pan Bondi through the halls of the Senate here on X quote, Chris Ray has failed at fundamental duty as of FBI director. He's shown disdain for Congressional oversight and has not lived up to his promises. It's time to chart a new course for transparency accountability at FBI. That's a pretty stark reaction when we hear the likes of Mike Rounds, for instance, saying that Christopher Ray, I believe he said a very good man. He said, picked a very good man to be director when he did it in the first term. This was a Trump appointee. What did Christopher Ray do to deserve being fired?

Yeah, it's very unclear. And you hear that statement by Chuck Grassley, you'd like to know exactly what he's speaking to beyond the fact that Donald Trump doesn't like him now even though he appointed him. And you know, if you take what Chuck Grassley is saying at his word, Okay, somehow Christopher Ray has failed to be fired. Who is he appointing but Cash Puttel, who has almost no experience and certainly doesn't have the temperament. This is somebody who has been going around talking about QAnon conspiracies and the fact that people in elected office and celebrities are engaged in a massive child sex trafficking arrangement, and that the deep state is trying to dethrone Donald Trump. You know, Joe he writes children's books when he gets out of the White House, and these children's books are worth looking at, if just because they're stunning to the point of being comical, if he wasn't being appointed to the FBI. They're talk about trying to.

Yeah, it's very unclear. And you hear that statement by Chuck Grassley, you'd like to know exactly what he's speaking to beyond the fact that Donald Trump doesn't like him now even though he appointed him. And you know, if you take what Chuck Grassley is saying at his word, Okay, somehow Christopher Ray has failed to be fired. Who is he appointing but Cash Puttel, who has almost no experience and certainly doesn't have the temperament. This is somebody who has been going around talking about QAnon conspiracies and the fact that people in elected office and celebrities are engaged in a massive child sex trafficking arrangement, and that the deep state is trying to dethrone Donald Trump. You know, Joe he writes children's books when he gets out of the White House, and these children's books are worth looking at, if just because they're stunning to the point of being comical, if he wasn't being appointed to the FBI. They're talk about trying to.

Steal the deep state, to steal King.

Steal the deep state, to steal King.

Trump's crown, and they have villains like Hillary Clinton and Adam shiff. I mean, the ridiculousness goes on and on. And it's not just bad writing. It's what he's talking about in these children's books and in the adult books that he writes. And so you know, Chuck Grassley, Okay, you don't like Chris Ray. What are you talking about in terms of cash Battel that makes him at all qualified temperamentally to do this job and to be in charge of our national security. It's mind numbing to hear.

Trump's crown, and they have villains like Hillary Clinton and Adam shiff. I mean, the ridiculousness goes on and on. And it's not just bad writing. It's what he's talking about in these children's books and in the adult books that he writes. And so you know, Chuck Grassley, Okay, you don't like Chris Ray. What are you talking about in terms of cash Battel that makes him at all qualified temperamentally to do this job and to be in charge of our national security. It's mind numbing to hear.

This kind of.

This kind of.

The plot against the king. At least one of the children's books you reference, Genie cash Battel vowed quote, We're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections unquote. I'll read another quote to you, Rick Davis, Charles Kopperman, who supervised Patel in his role in the first Trump administration says he is quote absolutely unqualified and untrustworthy, and goes on to say, quote it is an absolute disgrace unquote for him to even be considered. What are these confirmation hearings going to be like?

The plot against the king. At least one of the children's books you reference, Genie cash Battel vowed quote, We're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections unquote. I'll read another quote to you, Rick Davis, Charles Kopperman, who supervised Patel in his role in the first Trump administration says he is quote absolutely unqualified and untrustworthy, and goes on to say, quote it is an absolute disgrace unquote for him to even be considered. What are these confirmation hearings going to be like?

Yeah, well, I have the utmost respect for Charlie Kupperman. He's a long time national security official, you know, Republican and knows what he's talking about. And look, this is what you get when you get Donald Trump. Elections have consequences. Donald Trump made it clear this is what he was going to do. Cash Bettel is just a you know, an operative who will do Trump's bidding. I mean, anybody who thought this was going to be otherwise at the Justice Department didn't listen to Donald Trump every single day of the campaign. He's made all of his intentions clear. It's not clear when cash Bettel says he's going after people in the media what he means by that, what rules have been broken, what laws are been broken. He's still got a professional prosecution team in the Justice Department run by Pam Bondi, who is will be run by Pam Bondi, who who had eight years as a state attorney general and has a real track record behind her, So there is an adult at the gate, so to speak. But the reality is the American people chose Donald Trump because he said he wanted to declare war on the FBI, and Cash Battel is the operative who will do his bidding. And by the way, if it's not Cash Btel, it'll be somebody just like Cash Btel. And I think that's what the Republicans and the Senatives started to figure out. They got a hide by opposing, you know, Matt Gait for the job as Attorney General, but now I think they're in the position of probably taking anybody he puts on the list.

Yeah, well, I have the utmost respect for Charlie Kupperman. He's a long time national security official, you know, Republican and knows what he's talking about. And look, this is what you get when you get Donald Trump. Elections have consequences. Donald Trump made it clear this is what he was going to do. Cash Bettel is just a you know, an operative who will do Trump's bidding. I mean, anybody who thought this was going to be otherwise at the Justice Department didn't listen to Donald Trump every single day of the campaign. He's made all of his intentions clear. It's not clear when cash Bettel says he's going after people in the media what he means by that, what rules have been broken, what laws are been broken. He's still got a professional prosecution team in the Justice Department run by Pam Bondi, who is will be run by Pam Bondi, who who had eight years as a state attorney general and has a real track record behind her, So there is an adult at the gate, so to speak. But the reality is the American people chose Donald Trump because he said he wanted to declare war on the FBI, and Cash Battel is the operative who will do his bidding. And by the way, if it's not Cash Btel, it'll be somebody just like Cash Btel. And I think that's what the Republicans and the Senatives started to figure out. They got a hide by opposing, you know, Matt Gait for the job as Attorney General, but now I think they're in the position of probably taking anybody he puts on the list.

Incredible, Just one more minute left here, Genie. When you consider the news over the weekend about RFK Junior New York Times referring to his drug addiction, compulsive sexual behavior and deep dives into conspiracy theories or what we heard about Pete Hegseth from the New Yorker, from the Wall Street Journal and his own mother, Penelope hegg Seth, you see this wrote the letter talking about him as a womanizer. Pam Bondi is just cruising to confirmation with all the rest.

Incredible, Just one more minute left here, Genie. When you consider the news over the weekend about RFK Junior New York Times referring to his drug addiction, compulsive sexual behavior and deep dives into conspiracy theories or what we heard about Pete Hegseth from the New Yorker, from the Wall Street Journal and his own mother, Penelope hegg Seth, you see this wrote the letter talking about him as a womanizer. Pam Bondi is just cruising to confirmation with all the rest.

Of this going on here, right, Yeah, She and Marco Rubio, you know, no questions asked. Yeah, the email by Penelope Headset is just utterly devastating to read, and I'm trying to just wipe out of my memory. RFK Junior, did you see him in the shower, Joe behind his wife while she was hawking her goods and there he popped up?

Of this going on here, right, Yeah, She and Marco Rubio, you know, no questions asked. Yeah, the email by Penelope Headset is just utterly devastating to read, and I'm trying to just wipe out of my memory. RFK Junior, did you see him in the shower, Joe behind his wife while she was hawking her goods and there he popped up?

I mean, you couldn't write this as.

I mean, you couldn't write this as.

A made for TV movie and anybody would believe it or buy it, and yet here it all is. And of course Jane Mayer and The New Yorker a really devastating piece on heagset.

A made for TV movie and anybody would believe it or buy it, and yet here it all is. And of course Jane Mayer and The New Yorker a really devastating piece on heagset.

You said it.

You said it.

Yeah, another topless workout video I guess from RFK Junior over the weekend.

Yeah, another topless workout video I guess from RFK Junior over the weekend.

What is he seventy?

What is he seventy?

James, He's seventy. I'm not putting any of those videos up, GENNI thank you, Rick Davis, Genie Shanzeno our signature panel here on the Monday edition of Balance of Power.

James, He's seventy. I'm not putting any of those videos up, GENNI thank you, Rick Davis, Genie Shanzeno our signature panel here on the Monday edition of Balance of Power.

To think we're talking about all this stuff? Can we get to the markets?

To think we're talking about all this stuff? Can we get to the markets?

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apocarplay and then Rouno with the Bloomberg Business app.

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Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts a watch us live on YouTube.

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As we continue our conversation here with an Ion geopolitics. What's unfolding right now in Syria could have very important side effects for the future of the balance of power in the Middle East. What's happening in Syria, specifically in Aleppo over the weekend caught a lot of people off guard. Rebel fighters pushing southward after taking over Aleppo and what is being framed as the most serious challenge to the Alasad regime, which has been undergoing some very difficult times here. So it's saying a lot. To be specific, Hyatt Terrier Al sham HTS, the Islamist rebel group based in northwestern Syria, is driving this effort against Bishar Ala Sad and we wanted to spend some time with Hagar Shomali to talk about this a bit more. This is a real expert. You know her of course as the founder of Greenwich Media Strategies. We talk a lot about Midia's policy, but Hagar served as director for Syria and Lebanon as part of the National Security Council in the White House, and it's great to have you back.

As we continue our conversation here with an Ion geopolitics. What's unfolding right now in Syria could have very important side effects for the future of the balance of power in the Middle East. What's happening in Syria, specifically in Aleppo over the weekend caught a lot of people off guard. Rebel fighters pushing southward after taking over Aleppo and what is being framed as the most serious challenge to the Alasad regime, which has been undergoing some very difficult times here. So it's saying a lot. To be specific, Hyatt Terrier Al sham HTS, the Islamist rebel group based in northwestern Syria, is driving this effort against Bishar Ala Sad and we wanted to spend some time with Hagar Shomali to talk about this a bit more. This is a real expert. You know her of course as the founder of Greenwich Media Strategies. We talk a lot about Midia's policy, but Hagar served as director for Syria and Lebanon as part of the National Security Council in the White House, and it's great to have you back.

Hagar.

Hagar.

How has this happened so quickly and how real a threat is this to the Asad regime?

How has this happened so quickly and how real a threat is this to the Asad regime?

Sure well joke. First of all, thank you for mentioning that I was director for Syra and Lebanon, because it's really relevant to what we're talking about today, because I was there at the White House during the first two years of the Syria crisis, and this is a group I know fairly well. So first of all, we were all completely shocked. As you said, this is not something that was on the twenty twenty four Bingo card. It is a reaction to the weakness you're seeing on the part of Iran, Hasbella for sure, and Russia. These are all Bashar Lasa's allies. These are not only his allies, but these are the governments and groups that propped him up through throughout Syria's civil war. In twenty fourteen, it looked like Bashar Alasad was really close to losing because of the efforts of the opposition, and because Russia stepped in, first Iran and then Russia and Hezbala. That is what ultimately propped him up and allowed him to retain power. And so the calculation on the part of HCS was clearly they see that his allies are all weak. Russia's distracted, Hasbala has been the head's been cut off, and so now it would be a good time to launch this surprise offensive. And that's what you saw happening. But I had this reaction when I saw it happen. My reaction and analysis remains the same even though several days have passed, which is that I believe this will be temporary. And the reason for that is that, first of all, Aleppo is a very important city to Bashar Alasad, to the Syrian government. It is Syria's second largest city. It is also one of the more religiously diverse ones in Syria. It includes quite a large Christian group as well. Many of those Christians some support us AD, some don't. Most of them just want protection from what they view as Sunni Islamist groups, and so it's an important city. It also has an international airport. By the way, this is a city that is important for Busha LASA to retain control of the reason they were able to take it was because of the surprised nature of the assault. But very quickly you saw Russia step in and start bombarding a strongholds in northern Syria called Idlib. That's where this group has its stronghold, where they control the area. And I don't think that they're going to step back even when they're when these dictators and allies are weak, they are stronger together and ultimately, the Syrian government, the Russian government, and Iran they have airplanes and these guys don't, and that is what is going to ultimately, I believe, not allow this group to retain control, to maintain control over this newfound territory that they've recently attacked.

Sure well joke. First of all, thank you for mentioning that I was director for Syra and Lebanon, because it's really relevant to what we're talking about today, because I was there at the White House during the first two years of the Syria crisis, and this is a group I know fairly well. So first of all, we were all completely shocked. As you said, this is not something that was on the twenty twenty four Bingo card. It is a reaction to the weakness you're seeing on the part of Iran, Hasbella for sure, and Russia. These are all Bashar Lasa's allies. These are not only his allies, but these are the governments and groups that propped him up through throughout Syria's civil war. In twenty fourteen, it looked like Bashar Alasad was really close to losing because of the efforts of the opposition, and because Russia stepped in, first Iran and then Russia and Hezbala. That is what ultimately propped him up and allowed him to retain power. And so the calculation on the part of HCS was clearly they see that his allies are all weak. Russia's distracted, Hasbala has been the head's been cut off, and so now it would be a good time to launch this surprise offensive. And that's what you saw happening. But I had this reaction when I saw it happen. My reaction and analysis remains the same even though several days have passed, which is that I believe this will be temporary. And the reason for that is that, first of all, Aleppo is a very important city to Bashar Alasad, to the Syrian government. It is Syria's second largest city. It is also one of the more religiously diverse ones in Syria. It includes quite a large Christian group as well. Many of those Christians some support us AD, some don't. Most of them just want protection from what they view as Sunni Islamist groups, and so it's an important city. It also has an international airport. By the way, this is a city that is important for Busha LASA to retain control of the reason they were able to take it was because of the surprised nature of the assault. But very quickly you saw Russia step in and start bombarding a strongholds in northern Syria called Idlib. That's where this group has its stronghold, where they control the area. And I don't think that they're going to step back even when they're when these dictators and allies are weak, they are stronger together and ultimately, the Syrian government, the Russian government, and Iran they have airplanes and these guys don't, and that is what is going to ultimately, I believe, not allow this group to retain control, to maintain control over this newfound territory that they've recently attacked.

Aside reportedly flew to Moscow following this new challenge to his regime, Hagar, Are you surprised to learn that? And what will he bring home?

Aside reportedly flew to Moscow following this new challenge to his regime, Hagar, Are you surprised to learn that? And what will he bring home?

I'm not surprised to learn that. It's like he's visiting his big brother. Frankly, Russia has been there for Syria since the very beginning. They share historical ties. Those ties go back decades. The Syria and Russia used to have cultural and student exchanges. It's a relationship that is very long in the making. And back when the Sirious Civil War started, the Russian government was there for Bashar Lassat and in twenty fourteen actually stepped in with significant military support with airplanes, with air supporting them from the top and bombarding what they said was a counter terrorism effort to target ISIS. But they weren't just targeting ISIS. They were also targeting the Syrian opposition. And so for Bashar Lassa to fly to Moscow is for him to go there and say, hey, I need your help to wrap this up quickly. I can't fall back on Habela back when when the serious civil war was at its peace. Husbella and Nozrella the leader are now dead. Leader of Hasbella sent in his top men into Syria. Those top men don't exist anymore, and there's no leadership to even make that decision. Husbela at this point is reeling from the attacks by Israel, and so there are no position to go into Syria and help. And so Basha is going to kiss Putin's ring right now to ask for as much help as Putin can offer. And although Putin is distracted and Putin himself is relying on other dictators like Kim John Gunn and Iran to support his effort in Ukraine when they while they might be weaker alone, when these dictators unite, they are genuinely stronger together. I hate to admit that I wish it weren't true, but it is, and so I do believe Putin is going to do what he can to support his body. And at the end of the day, the thing you have to remember is that USAID is proof that if you bulldoze your own people he killed. The estimates are between three hundred thousand and five hundred thousand people killed, three hundred thousand, almost half a million of his own people, and he's still maintained power, He's not arrested. He lives in the lap of luxury in Damascus, and so he has no reason not to pursue that kind of strategy again with Russia behind him, and that's what he's going now to go do in Moscow. Is planned that.

I'm not surprised to learn that. It's like he's visiting his big brother. Frankly, Russia has been there for Syria since the very beginning. They share historical ties. Those ties go back decades. The Syria and Russia used to have cultural and student exchanges. It's a relationship that is very long in the making. And back when the Sirious Civil War started, the Russian government was there for Bashar Lassat and in twenty fourteen actually stepped in with significant military support with airplanes, with air supporting them from the top and bombarding what they said was a counter terrorism effort to target ISIS. But they weren't just targeting ISIS. They were also targeting the Syrian opposition. And so for Bashar Lassa to fly to Moscow is for him to go there and say, hey, I need your help to wrap this up quickly. I can't fall back on Habela back when when the serious civil war was at its peace. Husbella and Nozrella the leader are now dead. Leader of Hasbella sent in his top men into Syria. Those top men don't exist anymore, and there's no leadership to even make that decision. Husbela at this point is reeling from the attacks by Israel, and so there are no position to go into Syria and help. And so Basha is going to kiss Putin's ring right now to ask for as much help as Putin can offer. And although Putin is distracted and Putin himself is relying on other dictators like Kim John Gunn and Iran to support his effort in Ukraine when they while they might be weaker alone, when these dictators unite, they are genuinely stronger together. I hate to admit that I wish it weren't true, but it is, and so I do believe Putin is going to do what he can to support his body. And at the end of the day, the thing you have to remember is that USAID is proof that if you bulldoze your own people he killed. The estimates are between three hundred thousand and five hundred thousand people killed, three hundred thousand, almost half a million of his own people, and he's still maintained power, He's not arrested. He lives in the lap of luxury in Damascus, and so he has no reason not to pursue that kind of strategy again with Russia behind him, and that's what he's going now to go do in Moscow. Is planned that.

Strategy incredible stuff.

Strategy incredible stuff.

The role the US plays in this is what Knowing that Joe Biden is winding things down, in fact, he just landed in Africa for a three day trip. You seem to think this is temporary. Will it be resolved by the time Donald Trump takes office.

The role the US plays in this is what Knowing that Joe Biden is winding things down, in fact, he just landed in Africa for a three day trip. You seem to think this is temporary. Will it be resolved by the time Donald Trump takes office.

Well, the US, the interests are a bit different because for the United States, our main interest is supporting the Kurds in northern Syria, ensuring that nothing happens to them. The Kurds were our strongest ally encountering ISIS. In particular, they're a key reason why ISIS has not popped up again in northern Syria. The US, though, has had an inconsistent relationship, if you will, with HTS, with this group in particular that has has pushed into a lepo and is now moving more south. HTS at one point was santioned as a terrorist group. It was viewed back when I was in government. It was viewed as Al Qaeda in Iraq, but in Syria, and they have since changed, and so I don't want to paint them that way entirely. I also don't want to sugarcoat it for you. This is a group that has very conservative Islamic views. They say that they won't impose Sharia law, but they are a very conservative Islamic group. But they have since disavowed support for terrorism. They have disavowed their ties to terrorist groups, and many experts believe that maintains I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I'm gonna tell you that now because that is my experience in the US government. But that said, that the US does have a relationship with this group. Turkey in particular has a strong relationship with this group and has given them a lot of international assistance, which is what has allowed them to maintain control over the north of Syria. And so the United States at this effort, at this point, especially at the end, during this time, when you're wrapping up a presidency, President Biden is traveling in Africa, you have Almos Hokstein who's trying to broker another ceasefire deal in Gaza. That's going to be their focus when it comes to Syria. The only thing they're going to be able to maintain is to try and to argue that the Kurds remain safe, that nothing happens to the Christian communities in Syria, and also that this group is aware that they might that they shouldn't bite off more than they can chew, because what could happen is that US had only retaliates with Russia and he run behind him to crush civilians once again, and.

Well, the US, the interests are a bit different because for the United States, our main interest is supporting the Kurds in northern Syria, ensuring that nothing happens to them. The Kurds were our strongest ally encountering ISIS. In particular, they're a key reason why ISIS has not popped up again in northern Syria. The US, though, has had an inconsistent relationship, if you will, with HTS, with this group in particular that has has pushed into a lepo and is now moving more south. HTS at one point was santioned as a terrorist group. It was viewed back when I was in government. It was viewed as Al Qaeda in Iraq, but in Syria, and they have since changed, and so I don't want to paint them that way entirely. I also don't want to sugarcoat it for you. This is a group that has very conservative Islamic views. They say that they won't impose Sharia law, but they are a very conservative Islamic group. But they have since disavowed support for terrorism. They have disavowed their ties to terrorist groups, and many experts believe that maintains I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I'm gonna tell you that now because that is my experience in the US government. But that said, that the US does have a relationship with this group. Turkey in particular has a strong relationship with this group and has given them a lot of international assistance, which is what has allowed them to maintain control over the north of Syria. And so the United States at this effort, at this point, especially at the end, during this time, when you're wrapping up a presidency, President Biden is traveling in Africa, you have Almos Hokstein who's trying to broker another ceasefire deal in Gaza. That's going to be their focus when it comes to Syria. The only thing they're going to be able to maintain is to try and to argue that the Kurds remain safe, that nothing happens to the Christian communities in Syria, and also that this group is aware that they might that they shouldn't bite off more than they can chew, because what could happen is that US had only retaliates with Russia and he run behind him to crush civilians once again, and.

That is likely what he will do in our remaining couple of minutes here.

That is likely what he will do in our remaining couple of minutes here.

Then Hagar.

Then Hagar.

Turn the page to the next administration.

Turn the page to the next administration.

What does a d N I.

What does a d N I.

Tulsey Gabbard inside the White House mean, then for the US relationship with.

Tulsey Gabbard inside the White House mean, then for the US relationship with.

Syria, that's a good question.

Syria, that's a good question.

I had a hard time maintaining a straight face. Elsea Gabbard, for viewers who don't know, traveled to Syria back during the Syria Civil War, said that Bashar Lasad was not an enemy of the United States. So then she tried to retract that, and she also rejected intelligence assessments that confirmed with high confidence that US had used chemical weapons against his own people. I can tell you again, having been on the other side of that when those chemical attacks happened, that the bar that the intelligent community must reach to make that assessment, and to make that assessment with high confidence, is a very high bar. So to have somebody who has publicly rejected the assessments of our intelligence community to now be leading that position, and on top of it, to have shown a desire to be cozier or to look at Bashar Lasad through rose colored glasses is concerning because that position is the one that briefs the president every day in the Presidential Daily Brief and briefs the president on our biggest threats, and so you don't want that person viewing President asad in any way, as a rosy person, as somebody who ensures stability, And you also don't want that person just blatantly rejecting the assessments of our intelligence analysts, who who truly serve at the pleasure of the president, who are not partisan, and who do remarkable work. And so that's my concern with Tulsea Gabbert at the top.

I had a hard time maintaining a straight face. Elsea Gabbard, for viewers who don't know, traveled to Syria back during the Syria Civil War, said that Bashar Lasad was not an enemy of the United States. So then she tried to retract that, and she also rejected intelligence assessments that confirmed with high confidence that US had used chemical weapons against his own people. I can tell you again, having been on the other side of that when those chemical attacks happened, that the bar that the intelligent community must reach to make that assessment, and to make that assessment with high confidence, is a very high bar. So to have somebody who has publicly rejected the assessments of our intelligence community to now be leading that position, and on top of it, to have shown a desire to be cozier or to look at Bashar Lasad through rose colored glasses is concerning because that position is the one that briefs the president every day in the Presidential Daily Brief and briefs the president on our biggest threats, and so you don't want that person viewing President asad in any way, as a rosy person, as somebody who ensures stability, And you also don't want that person just blatantly rejecting the assessments of our intelligence analysts, who who truly serve at the pleasure of the president, who are not partisan, and who do remarkable work. And so that's my concern with Tulsea Gabbert at the top.

Yeah, I can tell Higar, we're out of time. But do you think she'll be confirmed with everything.

Yeah, I can tell Higar, we're out of time. But do you think she'll be confirmed with everything.

You just said?

You just said?

I think it would be tenuous, But I just don't think she's the most concerning for some of the other candidates, and I believe that that's where you're going to see. I don't know, it's hard to say. It's hard to say. It's hard. She could pass. She could pass, but there are others I think would would not pass muster before her.

I think it would be tenuous, But I just don't think she's the most concerning for some of the other candidates, and I believe that that's where you're going to see. I don't know, it's hard to say. It's hard to say. It's hard. She could pass. She could pass, but there are others I think would would not pass muster before her.

So we'll see too many plates spinning at once.

So we'll see too many plates spinning at once.

Tigar Shamali, thank you so much for the insights and great to have you back here on Bloomberg with Greenwich Media Strategies Forward Director Syria Lebanon on the National Security Council.

Tigar Shamali, thank you so much for the insights and great to have you back here on Bloomberg with Greenwich Media Strategies Forward Director Syria Lebanon on the National Security Council.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast.

Can Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Can Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roun Oo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

We wanted to focus on this this Monday, as the Trump transition picks get all the attention along with the Biden pardon. This is critically important and we're joined now by an expert. He's just back from a trip to Europe where he spent time with political and business leaders and he's all ours at least for now. Brett Ruin, President and CEO of the Global Situation Room.

We wanted to focus on this this Monday, as the Trump transition picks get all the attention along with the Biden pardon. This is critically important and we're joined now by an expert. He's just back from a trip to Europe where he spent time with political and business leaders and he's all ours at least for now. Brett Ruin, President and CEO of the Global Situation Room.

Brett, it's great to have you back.

Brett, it's great to have you back.

Of course, as a.

Of course, as a.

Veteran diplomat, I know your eyes are on Syria and this is an area of the world that.

Veteran diplomat, I know your eyes are on Syria and this is an area of the world that.

You've dealt with in the past.

You've dealt with in the past.

How is this happening so quickly and what does it mean for Bashar al Assad?

How is this happening so quickly and what does it mean for Bashar al Assad?

Well, the short answer, Joe is there's an imbalance of power and I think what has transpired in Lebanon as well as regionally with Iran, and listeners will know that Bashar Assad gets most, if not all, of his support from Tehran and the hits that they have taken through their proxies Hamas Hezbollah are starting to hurt. And there are I think a number of actors hts as you mentioned before, one of them that smell blood in the water and feel like this is a moment to strike, and clearly they struck with great effectiveness.

Well, the short answer, Joe is there's an imbalance of power and I think what has transpired in Lebanon as well as regionally with Iran, and listeners will know that Bashar Assad gets most, if not all, of his support from Tehran and the hits that they have taken through their proxies Hamas Hezbollah are starting to hurt. And there are I think a number of actors hts as you mentioned before, one of them that smell blood in the water and feel like this is a moment to strike, and clearly they struck with great effectiveness.

Are they right so far? It seems they are.

Are they right so far? It seems they are.

They are, And I think the key question that is looming over Damascus at the moment is whether or not Assad's forces will be able to regroup. Now they do have an air advantage. It isn't, however, the air advantage they enjoyed earlier about you know, ten years ago when first there was an uprising across the Syrian landscape. Now there are drones, there are other unmanned air capabilities that the rebel forces can use. There's obviously also just a very different power dynamic in the region. And on top of this, Russia plays a big part in supporting ASAD. They've got their own hardware problems in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are upping their efforts as Trump looks to take power here in Washington again. So this isn't a good situation for Asad. I would give his odds, you know, better than fifty to fifty at this point, but it's still, you know, quite frankly, a bit of an unknown.

They are, And I think the key question that is looming over Damascus at the moment is whether or not Assad's forces will be able to regroup. Now they do have an air advantage. It isn't, however, the air advantage they enjoyed earlier about you know, ten years ago when first there was an uprising across the Syrian landscape. Now there are drones, there are other unmanned air capabilities that the rebel forces can use. There's obviously also just a very different power dynamic in the region. And on top of this, Russia plays a big part in supporting ASAD. They've got their own hardware problems in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are upping their efforts as Trump looks to take power here in Washington again. So this isn't a good situation for Asad. I would give his odds, you know, better than fifty to fifty at this point, but it's still, you know, quite frankly, a bit of an unknown.

Let's talk a bit about Russia and Iran then, because it's pretty easy to connect the dots here, as you are doing when it.

Let's talk a bit about Russia and Iran then, because it's pretty easy to connect the dots here, as you are doing when it.

Comes to Iran.

Comes to Iran.

The potential here for the dismantling of its proxy network that we've talked about so much with regard to Israel is great. What will we see happen to Tehran if Bishar al Assad falls well?

The potential here for the dismantling of its proxy network that we've talked about so much with regard to Israel is great. What will we see happen to Tehran if Bishar al Assad falls well?

And what's interesting here, yes, if Asade falls, who steps into this void? HTS formally was the extension of al Qaeda in Syria. They have moderated their position over the years. They've tried one just to appeal to a Syrian population that doesn't necessarily take well to some of those extremist ideologies. But on the other hand, I think what you're seeing is shifting in some of these groups. It isn't something that is static. There's obviously different rebel groups and they join forces and sometimes they're fighting against one another, other times, as now they're fighting together. You know, what we don't want to see, Joe is a Libya scenario where we end up seeing a fall of a leader like Kadafi and into the void come a whole lot of warring factions. And so what's really important here is that the international community start to step up now and preserve some you know, coalition, preserves some semblance of stability, and hopefully get a plan in place for how we're going to handle this thing, potentially post a SOD.

And what's interesting here, yes, if Asade falls, who steps into this void? HTS formally was the extension of al Qaeda in Syria. They have moderated their position over the years. They've tried one just to appeal to a Syrian population that doesn't necessarily take well to some of those extremist ideologies. But on the other hand, I think what you're seeing is shifting in some of these groups. It isn't something that is static. There's obviously different rebel groups and they join forces and sometimes they're fighting against one another, other times, as now they're fighting together. You know, what we don't want to see, Joe is a Libya scenario where we end up seeing a fall of a leader like Kadafi and into the void come a whole lot of warring factions. And so what's really important here is that the international community start to step up now and preserve some you know, coalition, preserves some semblance of stability, and hopefully get a plan in place for how we're going to handle this thing, potentially post a SOD.

Wow, give us the view from Moscow. Then, of course Vladimir Putin is stretched thin in Ukraine. Does he have any influence left here?

Wow, give us the view from Moscow. Then, of course Vladimir Putin is stretched thin in Ukraine. Does he have any influence left here?

Well, he has some, and you saw Russian air assets deployed in defense of Syrian troops. And yet at the same time he hasn't got a lot Joe. He will have a small presence in Syria. He doesn't have a lot more to give. So when Asad's you know, nervously picking up the phone and calling Moscow, the other end's going to say, well, good luck, but we don't have much more to send you.