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You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, CarPlay and then roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, CarPlay and then roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

To the news of the day, including of course, the late Friday announcement that Scott Bessett will be if Donald Trump gets his way, the next Treasury of the Secretary Secretary of the Treasury. It is Monday, after all, of course, keeping in mind that if Besson is to be the next Treasury Secretary, he does still need to win Senate confirmation. But he has had a pretty clear narrative of the agenda he would like to pursue. This kind of three three three policy. He says, reduce debt to three percent from the current six percent, make GDP growth go up to three percent, and pump three million more barrels a day of crewe in the United States. He also has floated the idea of a shadow fed chair and had this to say to Joe Matthew and myself last month when he joined us about the influence Donald Trump might want to have on FED policy.

To the news of the day, including of course, the late Friday announcement that Scott Bessett will be if Donald Trump gets his way, the next Treasury of the Secretary Secretary of the Treasury. It is Monday, after all, of course, keeping in mind that if Besson is to be the next Treasury Secretary, he does still need to win Senate confirmation. But he has had a pretty clear narrative of the agenda he would like to pursue. This kind of three three three policy. He says, reduce debt to three percent from the current six percent, make GDP growth go up to three percent, and pump three million more barrels a day of crewe in the United States. He also has floated the idea of a shadow fed chair and had this to say to Joe Matthew and myself last month when he joined us about the influence Donald Trump might want to have on FED policy.

He has a deep understanding of financial markets as opposed to most politicians, so he wants to be involved in the conversation. He has very well formed opinions. He has a lot of private sector friends, so he just wants to be a voice.

He has a deep understanding of financial markets as opposed to most politicians, so he wants to be involved in the conversation. He has very well formed opinions. He has a lot of private sector friends, so he just wants to be a voice.

We want to add another voice to our program here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. In turns of the ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee, the Democratic Congresswoman from California, Maxine Waters, is joining me now. Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here. I would love first just your reaction to the nomination of Scott Besson. Will he be an adequate steward of the US economy.

We want to add another voice to our program here on Balance of Power on Bloomberg TV and Radio. In turns of the ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee, the Democratic Congresswoman from California, Maxine Waters, is joining me now. Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here. I would love first just your reaction to the nomination of Scott Besson. Will he be an adequate steward of the US economy.

Let me just say this, as the world has been watching President Trump's appointees, it is not about competence.

Let me just say this, as the world has been watching President Trump's appointees, it is not about competence.

It is not about the.

It is not about the.

Ability to be an advocate for the people and protect investors and do all that needs to be done to ensure that, you know, the people of this country that the Americans have someone looking out for their best tenters. He has made his appointments based on loyalty. Loyalty and that means they will do whatever he wants. And so you know, I consider the new public policy will be whatever Trump wants by his appointees who have been chosen because of their loyalty. So I can I get into whether or not this appointee, as you know, the Treasury is different from anybody else. But I expect right now that we're going to be up against appointees and every level of govern that are loyal to Trump, and they're going to take this country in a whole new direction, as identified in Project twenty twenty five.

Ability to be an advocate for the people and protect investors and do all that needs to be done to ensure that, you know, the people of this country that the Americans have someone looking out for their best tenters. He has made his appointments based on loyalty. Loyalty and that means they will do whatever he wants. And so you know, I consider the new public policy will be whatever Trump wants by his appointees who have been chosen because of their loyalty. So I can I get into whether or not this appointee, as you know, the Treasury is different from anybody else. But I expect right now that we're going to be up against appointees and every level of govern that are loyal to Trump, and they're going to take this country in a whole new direction, as identified in Project twenty twenty five.

So when it comes to Scott Beston specifically Congressoman, do you think the market is perhaps misplaced in its notion that he actually could be something of a balancing force for the president, a kind of steady hand, if you will, when it comes to the extent of tariffs that should be pursued, for example. You don't believe that to be true.

So when it comes to Scott Beston specifically Congressoman, do you think the market is perhaps misplaced in its notion that he actually could be something of a balancing force for the president, a kind of steady hand, if you will, when it comes to the extent of tariffs that should be pursued, for example. You don't believe that to be true.

No, I do not believe it to be true.

No, I do not believe it to be true.

Again, and let me reiterate, these appointments are based on whether they're going to do what Trump wants them to do. It is not based on any evidence that they can be independent, that they in fact will be looking out for the best censures of the people.

Again, and let me reiterate, these appointments are based on whether they're going to do what Trump wants them to do. It is not based on any evidence that they can be independent, that they in fact will be looking out for the best censures of the people.

And so I'm prepared.

And so I'm prepared.

I'm prepared for whatever Trump wants them to do, and I'm prepared to fight that. I'm prepared to be able to help organize that committee the Democratic side to educate the public about what they're doing and what's going on. So I'm not going to back up and say we can't get anything done. We're going to continue to try and put before the American people the kind of public policy that they expect appointees and elected officials to do.

I'm prepared for whatever Trump wants them to do, and I'm prepared to fight that. I'm prepared to be able to help organize that committee the Democratic side to educate the public about what they're doing and what's going on. So I'm not going to back up and say we can't get anything done. We're going to continue to try and put before the American people the kind of public policy that they expect appointees and elected officials to do.

On behalf of the people.

On behalf of the people.

And then we want to see if we cannot only educate and inform, but whether or not the American people are going to understand that they now have a president of the United States of America who has no respect for the Constitution, does not care what president is on any subject, and that he's going to do what he wants to do. And so I'm looking for him to reveal himself as he has identified himself.

And then we want to see if we cannot only educate and inform, but whether or not the American people are going to understand that they now have a president of the United States of America who has no respect for the Constitution, does not care what president is on any subject, and that he's going to do what he wants to do. And so I'm looking for him to reveal himself as he has identified himself.

Well, Congresswoman, as you look ahead to the work you'd like to continue doing as a ranking member of House Financial Services, you're going to be working with another Republican atop that committee. Is there's jockeying now for the chairmanship. A number of candidates, of course, who are vying, is there someone you'd most like to work with that you think the most productive bipartisan legislative work out of the committee could happen under.

Well, Congresswoman, as you look ahead to the work you'd like to continue doing as a ranking member of House Financial Services, you're going to be working with another Republican atop that committee. Is there's jockeying now for the chairmanship. A number of candidates, of course, who are vying, is there someone you'd most like to work with that you think the most productive bipartisan legislative work out of the committee could happen under.

That's a possibility, But if I identify them right now to you for the public, this probably would lessen their opportunity of getting chosen. So yes, I hope there could be someone that follows that description, but I can't tell you whom at this point.

That's a possibility, But if I identify them right now to you for the public, this probably would lessen their opportunity of getting chosen. So yes, I hope there could be someone that follows that description, but I can't tell you whom at this point.

So just one of the candidates, in my understanding, you think you could work with on a bipartisan basis of the three or four that have been floated.

So just one of the candidates, in my understanding, you think you could work with on a bipartisan basis of the three or four that have been floated.

Well, to tell you the truth, I could work with members from the opposite side of the owl pretty much in the way that I've worked with McHenry and others. But we've got to see who's willing to step up to the plate and do what is necessary to protect our investors, do what's necessary to hold on to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that's protecting our consumers. Any of those who can do that, I can certainly work with them.

Well, to tell you the truth, I could work with members from the opposite side of the owl pretty much in the way that I've worked with McHenry and others. But we've got to see who's willing to step up to the plate and do what is necessary to protect our investors, do what's necessary to hold on to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that's protecting our consumers. Any of those who can do that, I can certainly work with them.

Well, we have seen some bipartisan work coming out of the MIDI in this committee in one hundred and eighteenth Congress, including bill that advanced out of the Committee and ultimately passed on the House floor of the FIT twenty one Act, the Market Structure, Crypto Legislation and Congressman, and I wonder what you think the future is of those kinds of legislative initiatives now that Republicans won't just have control of your body, but the Senate as well.

Well, we have seen some bipartisan work coming out of the MIDI in this committee in one hundred and eighteenth Congress, including bill that advanced out of the Committee and ultimately passed on the House floor of the FIT twenty one Act, the Market Structure, Crypto Legislation and Congressman, and I wonder what you think the future is of those kinds of legislative initiatives now that Republicans won't just have control of your body, but the Senate as well.

Well, let me tell you, I've worked very closely with mce henry where we've tried to get stable going. Our efforts have been about guardrails. We're not opposed to legitimate legislation that appears to be in the best interest of the people of this country. And there may be some crypto that would like to have guard rails. If there are guardrails that we can agree to working with all of the entities that are interested in and a part of developing crypto if we're ever going to get there, and that means the Treasury, that means the Federal Reserve, that means the sec that means all of these agencies have to come together with the President on crypto in order to have something that will have guardrails and will not just be determined by the fact that crypto companies are trying to invade all of our financial services members with large contributions, etc.

Well, let me tell you, I've worked very closely with mce henry where we've tried to get stable going. Our efforts have been about guardrails. We're not opposed to legitimate legislation that appears to be in the best interest of the people of this country. And there may be some crypto that would like to have guard rails. If there are guardrails that we can agree to working with all of the entities that are interested in and a part of developing crypto if we're ever going to get there, and that means the Treasury, that means the Federal Reserve, that means the sec that means all of these agencies have to come together with the President on crypto in order to have something that will have guardrails and will not just be determined by the fact that crypto companies are trying to invade all of our financial services members with large contributions, etc.

Etc.

Etc.

We know what's going on, and we think now they're going to have an opportunity to learn more about what crypto really is and how it works in this digital economy that we're involved in. So we've got a lot of understanding, a lot of searching out, and a lot of educating to do. And if we can work with anyone who's willing to do that and provide these guardrails, I'm ready, and.

We know what's going on, and we think now they're going to have an opportunity to learn more about what crypto really is and how it works in this digital economy that we're involved in. So we've got a lot of understanding, a lot of searching out, and a lot of educating to do. And if we can work with anyone who's willing to do that and provide these guardrails, I'm ready, and.

I think some of my members are.

I think some of my members are.

And I do believe that some of the members who voted for the crypto legislation that you're talking about will no more now about what they voted for and be a lot more skeptical than they were or when they decided that they would give it a chance, that they would go ahead and vote in ways that they didn't quite understand. But I don't think that'll be the case anymore.

And I do believe that some of the members who voted for the crypto legislation that you're talking about will no more now about what they voted for and be a lot more skeptical than they were or when they decided that they would give it a chance, that they would go ahead and vote in ways that they didn't quite understand. But I don't think that'll be the case anymore.

Well, you just mentioned their congressoman the SEC's role in this. The chair, Gary Gensler, of course, has announced that he will be a step down on January twentieth, when this new president and new administration comes in. And I wonder given the nominees for other regulatory agencies that we have already seen coming from Donald Trump Brendan Carr, for example, at the FCC. What concern you might have about the kind of person who could ultimately fill the shoes that Gary Gensler is stepping out of.

Well, you just mentioned their congressoman the SEC's role in this. The chair, Gary Gensler, of course, has announced that he will be a step down on January twentieth, when this new president and new administration comes in. And I wonder given the nominees for other regulatory agencies that we have already seen coming from Donald Trump Brendan Carr, for example, at the FCC. What concern you might have about the kind of person who could ultimately fill the shoes that Gary Gensler is stepping out of.

Well, you know, a Gensler was an expert in crypto. He taught crypto at the university, and many of those in the crypto business did not like him, did not want him because he knew too much and he wanted guardrails. And he was absolutely the one who I believe should be in position to deal with securities as we understand them. Crypto is a security, it is not a commodity, and that's what the fight is all about, commodity versus security. And I don't know who can fill those shoes, but we'll have to see.

Well, you know, a Gensler was an expert in crypto. He taught crypto at the university, and many of those in the crypto business did not like him, did not want him because he knew too much and he wanted guardrails. And he was absolutely the one who I believe should be in position to deal with securities as we understand them. Crypto is a security, it is not a commodity, and that's what the fight is all about, commodity versus security. And I don't know who can fill those shoes, but we'll have to see.

Well, we know gangsters will be out of those shoes in January. A term that goes much longer, though, and there's no sign that this person will be leaving in advance of the term being up. Is Michael Barr, the Vice Chair of Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of course initially put forward the Basel three end game proposal with higher capital requirements for big banks, something many of your colleagues on the Financial Services Committee and the President elect have been highly critical of. How do you expect Michael Barr will fare under this new administration? Do you think that Donald Trump might actually try to fire or demote him?

Well, we know gangsters will be out of those shoes in January. A term that goes much longer, though, and there's no sign that this person will be leaving in advance of the term being up. Is Michael Barr, the Vice Chair of Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of course initially put forward the Basel three end game proposal with higher capital requirements for big banks, something many of your colleagues on the Financial Services Committee and the President elect have been highly critical of. How do you expect Michael Barr will fare under this new administration? Do you think that Donald Trump might actually try to fire or demote him?

Well, first of all, let me just go back some of what you just said. I think I missed. But let me tell you.

Well, first of all, let me just go back some of what you just said. I think I missed. But let me tell you.

If you mentioned Powell oh at the Federal Reserve, he cannot fire him and he's not going to leave, and we've already gotten him to make that a public statement, and so he'll be there.

If you mentioned Powell oh at the Federal Reserve, he cannot fire him and he's not going to leave, and we've already gotten him to make that a public statement, and so he'll be there.

Now.

Now.

If you're talking about Ginstler and why he would be stepping down, he knows Trump does not want him. Trump would fire him in a hot second, and so he's stepping down.

If you're talking about Ginstler and why he would be stepping down, he knows Trump does not want him. Trump would fire him in a hot second, and so he's stepping down.

He will not be there.

He will not be there.

I don't know much about a replacement, and whether or not they will come in with the same kind of understanding that the securities must be DELA and that crypto are securities. And so if they come in already thinking that that's not the business of the sec the Securities Exchange Commission, that rather it is a commodity, then we have a problem.

I don't know much about a replacement, and whether or not they will come in with the same kind of understanding that the securities must be DELA and that crypto are securities. And so if they come in already thinking that that's not the business of the sec the Securities Exchange Commission, that rather it is a commodity, then we have a problem.

And so we've got all of these issues to work out.

And so we've got all of these issues to work out.

A Congressman, I had asked, and I'm sorry if I was hard to understand. Michael Barr, the vice chair of Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of course will oversee the future of capital requirements for big banks. What do you think his future holds in this incoming administry?

A Congressman, I had asked, and I'm sorry if I was hard to understand. Michael Barr, the vice chair of Supervision at the Federal Reserve, who of course will oversee the future of capital requirements for big banks. What do you think his future holds in this incoming administry?

Let me just tell you, we've got to continue to educate our members and the public on why it is so important that we have capital requirements and that we have what we need to protect against, you know, the kind of meltdown that we had in two thousand and eight. You know, we cannot eliminate you know, the lessons that have been learned about capital requirements, and so we're going to push very hard with all of the information, with all of the history about what took place when we had the meltdown in two thousand and eight, and this country was practically ruined because of a lack of the ability of the banks of this country to be able to ensure all of our depositors and investors that they can be safe.

Let me just tell you, we've got to continue to educate our members and the public on why it is so important that we have capital requirements and that we have what we need to protect against, you know, the kind of meltdown that we had in two thousand and eight. You know, we cannot eliminate you know, the lessons that have been learned about capital requirements, and so we're going to push very hard with all of the information, with all of the history about what took place when we had the meltdown in two thousand and eight, and this country was practically ruined because of a lack of the ability of the banks of this country to be able to ensure all of our depositors and investors that they can be safe.

All right, Congressoman, thank you so much for joining us here on Bloomberg TV in radio. That is, the ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee. Democratic Congressman Maxine Waters, thank you so much.

All right, Congressoman, thank you so much for joining us here on Bloomberg TV in radio. That is, the ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee. Democratic Congressman Maxine Waters, thank you so much.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Kensis live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roud outro with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Kensis live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then roud outro with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

We do have breaking news at this hour from here in Washington, where, of course, one of the federal cases against Donald Trump was bought by Special Counsel Jack Smith. He at the Department of Justice is now moving to formally drop that case, the twenty twenty election obstruction case, and the charges that were brought against Trump. Then this is not a surprise. We knew this might be coming, and as it is longstanding DOJ policy to not prosecute a sitting president, which Donald Trump is about to become in just fifty six days, and when he does take office, we know he has promised to make some changes at the DOJ. Initially, That's why he wanted Matt Gates to be the leader of it when he was nominated for Attorney General, only to withdraw his name from consideration last week and have Pam Bondi named in his stead. But now that Gates is out of the picture for ag there's scrutiny on some of the other controversial cabinet selections that Donald Trump has made, including, of course RFK Junior for Health and Human Services, Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense, and then there's Tulci Gabbard who was tapped to be the Director of National Intelligence. She could face a bit of an uphill climb to get Senate confirmation, at least if the words of one Republican Senator, James Langford, who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, is to be believed. This is what he told CNN just yesterday.

We do have breaking news at this hour from here in Washington, where, of course, one of the federal cases against Donald Trump was bought by Special Counsel Jack Smith. He at the Department of Justice is now moving to formally drop that case, the twenty twenty election obstruction case, and the charges that were brought against Trump. Then this is not a surprise. We knew this might be coming, and as it is longstanding DOJ policy to not prosecute a sitting president, which Donald Trump is about to become in just fifty six days, and when he does take office, we know he has promised to make some changes at the DOJ. Initially, That's why he wanted Matt Gates to be the leader of it when he was nominated for Attorney General, only to withdraw his name from consideration last week and have Pam Bondi named in his stead. But now that Gates is out of the picture for ag there's scrutiny on some of the other controversial cabinet selections that Donald Trump has made, including, of course RFK Junior for Health and Human Services, Pete Hegseth for Secretary of Defense, and then there's Tulci Gabbard who was tapped to be the Director of National Intelligence. She could face a bit of an uphill climb to get Senate confirmation, at least if the words of one Republican Senator, James Langford, who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, is to be believed. This is what he told CNN just yesterday.

Well, we'll have lots of questions she met with Bishiro Sad. We'll want to know what the purpose was and what the direction for that was. As a member of Congress, will want to get it. She has to talk about past comments that she's made and get them into full context.

Well, we'll have lots of questions she met with Bishiro Sad. We'll want to know what the purpose was and what the direction for that was. As a member of Congress, will want to get it. She has to talk about past comments that she's made and get them into full context.

So let's assemble now our signature political panel for more on this. Rick Davis Stone Court Capital Partner and Republican Strategists, alongside Democratic analyst Jeanie Schanzeno who is a senior Democracy Fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency and Congress. Rick, if you were on Tolsei Gabbert's team trying to make sure that she ultimately gets confirmed and takes this job as a Director of National Intelligence, would you be pretty nervous right now? What does she need to do over the course of the next many weeks in order to ensure she gets the requisite votes in the Senate?

So let's assemble now our signature political panel for more on this. Rick Davis Stone Court Capital Partner and Republican Strategists, alongside Democratic analyst Jeanie Schanzeno who is a senior Democracy Fellow at the Center for the Study of the Presidency and Congress. Rick, if you were on Tolsei Gabbert's team trying to make sure that she ultimately gets confirmed and takes this job as a Director of National Intelligence, would you be pretty nervous right now? What does she need to do over the course of the next many weeks in order to ensure she gets the requisite votes in the Senate?

Well, I think they're probably doing this meeting directly with the staves of the various committee's Armed Services Committee, Intelligence Committee, those committees that really care a great deal about that posting and talking to the staves and to the members directly sort of airing out any issues like what Senator Langfort might have about her trip to Syria, what she did there, what was the cause, and how did she organize a meeting with Bashar al Asad, at the time a global criminal for using chemicals against his own people chemical warfare. So she's got some explaining to do. But if she has a rational explanation for these things, then what I can tell is the Senate is in the mode of trying to give Donald Trump the appointments he wants, and yet I do think it's going to be a drawn out process. I mean, there's requirements for high level security clearances. Those haven't even begun because of delays in the transition, So I think we'll be talking about this for quite some time to come. But you know, she's a talented individual who if she can explain away some of the concerns that people have about her approach to Syria and to Russia, then she stands a chance of acceding to the job.

Well, I think they're probably doing this meeting directly with the staves of the various committee's Armed Services Committee, Intelligence Committee, those committees that really care a great deal about that posting and talking to the staves and to the members directly sort of airing out any issues like what Senator Langfort might have about her trip to Syria, what she did there, what was the cause, and how did she organize a meeting with Bashar al Asad, at the time a global criminal for using chemicals against his own people chemical warfare. So she's got some explaining to do. But if she has a rational explanation for these things, then what I can tell is the Senate is in the mode of trying to give Donald Trump the appointments he wants, and yet I do think it's going to be a drawn out process. I mean, there's requirements for high level security clearances. Those haven't even begun because of delays in the transition, So I think we'll be talking about this for quite some time to come. But you know, she's a talented individual who if she can explain away some of the concerns that people have about her approach to Syria and to Russia, then she stands a chance of acceding to the job.

Well, she's also a former Democrat, Genie, so way in here is this a job she deserves to have.

Well, she's also a former Democrat, Genie, so way in here is this a job she deserves to have.

You know, I think the Senate is going to do it's vetting on her. I think what's troubling to me are the charges that are coming that she is somehow traitorous, and I think we have to be very very careful with that kind of language when it's being used pretty publicly without evidence. She does, to Rick's point, have to explain her trips to Asad, she does have to explain the language that she's been using as it pertains to Russia. But just because somebody has a view that doesn't line up with what is expected in certain circles, we have to be very careful about calling her obviously a former VET, a former congresswoman, a former candidate for president, and now this nominee. That said, I think questions have to be asked by the Senate, and Senator Lang is right about her expertise and ability to do this job, which is what is very concerning to me. This is an important job. This was a job created after nine to eleven to ensure the president gets the best intelligence he can and is she able to do that job. There are a variety of questions about that, and also questions about whether our allies feel comfortable sharing information if she is at the top of this. So I think all of those are fair game. I would not be surprised if we see four people Murkowski, Collins, Mitch McConnell, maybe one from intelligence, who say no to her and Donald Trump is forced to look elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

You know, I think the Senate is going to do it's vetting on her. I think what's troubling to me are the charges that are coming that she is somehow traitorous, and I think we have to be very very careful with that kind of language when it's being used pretty publicly without evidence. She does, to Rick's point, have to explain her trips to Asad, she does have to explain the language that she's been using as it pertains to Russia. But just because somebody has a view that doesn't line up with what is expected in certain circles, we have to be very careful about calling her obviously a former VET, a former congresswoman, a former candidate for president, and now this nominee. That said, I think questions have to be asked by the Senate, and Senator Lang is right about her expertise and ability to do this job, which is what is very concerning to me. This is an important job. This was a job created after nine to eleven to ensure the president gets the best intelligence he can and is she able to do that job. There are a variety of questions about that, and also questions about whether our allies feel comfortable sharing information if she is at the top of this. So I think all of those are fair game. I would not be surprised if we see four people Murkowski, Collins, Mitch McConnell, maybe one from intelligence, who say no to her and Donald Trump is forced to look elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Well, as we consider here what is and is not surprising, Perhaps not too surprising, as it was already signaled that this would be coming by Special Counsel Jack Smith, but the DOJ now formally moving to drop the obstruction case in the twenty twenty election case, specifically against the now president elect. Here in Washington, Genie, we knew that they weren't going to try to prosecute a sitting president. Jack Smith has signaled this much. He's also apparently looking at retiring before Donald Trump can even take office. And I just wonder when you couple this with other news we have gotten just last week that the sentencing in the case that Trump was convicted in has been postponed indefinitely. Does this just end every legal inquiry essentially, at least in terms of criminal prosecution into Donald Trump. Is this ever going to be reignited?

Well, as we consider here what is and is not surprising, Perhaps not too surprising, as it was already signaled that this would be coming by Special Counsel Jack Smith, but the DOJ now formally moving to drop the obstruction case in the twenty twenty election case, specifically against the now president elect. Here in Washington, Genie, we knew that they weren't going to try to prosecute a sitting president. Jack Smith has signaled this much. He's also apparently looking at retiring before Donald Trump can even take office. And I just wonder when you couple this with other news we have gotten just last week that the sentencing in the case that Trump was convicted in has been postponed indefinitely. Does this just end every legal inquiry essentially, at least in terms of criminal prosecution into Donald Trump. Is this ever going to be reignited?

I think for the most part this ends it, and in my mind it should end it. There is a big debate about do we end these or freeze these as is happening in New York. I think at this point ending them is the right course. But you know, it's a hard question because you know, setting aside Donald Trump, there is a looming question about whether you're getting a lot of jail free card is being elected to office. That's deeply disconcerting to many Americans. But that said, at this point, I do think the DOJ is right to drop this, And if I was Jack Smith, I would be sending in my resignation as well as I expect we see his entire team resign at this point.

I think for the most part this ends it, and in my mind it should end it. There is a big debate about do we end these or freeze these as is happening in New York. I think at this point ending them is the right course. But you know, it's a hard question because you know, setting aside Donald Trump, there is a looming question about whether you're getting a lot of jail free card is being elected to office. That's deeply disconcerting to many Americans. But that said, at this point, I do think the DOJ is right to drop this, And if I was Jack Smith, I would be sending in my resignation as well as I expect we see his entire team resign at this point.

Well, yeah, there's been plenty of reports that everyone who was on that team might be fired from the Department of Justice under this incoming administration. Anyway, Rick, as we consider though, that it's not going to be Matt Gates who leads the department going forward. He's taken himself out. It's now Pam Bondi, who is the Attorney General designate. There isn't much thought that she will face difficulty in getting confirmed. How do you expect she'll handle things like this or at the suggestions that the President elect made on the campaign trail that he would like to go after and see prosecuted people who are his own political enemies.

Well, yeah, there's been plenty of reports that everyone who was on that team might be fired from the Department of Justice under this incoming administration. Anyway, Rick, as we consider though, that it's not going to be Matt Gates who leads the department going forward. He's taken himself out. It's now Pam Bondi, who is the Attorney General designate. There isn't much thought that she will face difficulty in getting confirmed. How do you expect she'll handle things like this or at the suggestions that the President elect made on the campaign trail that he would like to go after and see prosecuted people who are his own political enemies.

Yeah, look, I mean there are plenty of that the Justice Department have had in the past about how they handle issues related to sitting presidents, and I think this goes by the wayside just as consistent as any other has done in the past, dating back to Richard Nixon. The long and short of it, though, is Pam Bondi will be the Chief Council Chief cop for the United States of America and at this point in time, there's no reason to believe that that's inconsistent with serving under a Donald Trump presidency. And if in fact, there is a date and time where the President instructs her to do something otherwise, I think we'll hear from the courts and from the Congress to ensure that these norms are adhered to. And we certainly have no evidence that the division of labor, the division of power in Congress and the Supreme Court or federal courts will see otherwise. So I think there's systems in place to keep government running. And it certainly is totally appropriate that Jack Smith would see this opportunity to pursue other interests. And he's served his country well over you know, two decades, and you know he's not going to want to serve in an administration that he's just been prosecuting.

Yeah, look, I mean there are plenty of that the Justice Department have had in the past about how they handle issues related to sitting presidents, and I think this goes by the wayside just as consistent as any other has done in the past, dating back to Richard Nixon. The long and short of it, though, is Pam Bondi will be the Chief Council Chief cop for the United States of America and at this point in time, there's no reason to believe that that's inconsistent with serving under a Donald Trump presidency. And if in fact, there is a date and time where the President instructs her to do something otherwise, I think we'll hear from the courts and from the Congress to ensure that these norms are adhered to. And we certainly have no evidence that the division of labor, the division of power in Congress and the Supreme Court or federal courts will see otherwise. So I think there's systems in place to keep government running. And it certainly is totally appropriate that Jack Smith would see this opportunity to pursue other interests. And he's served his country well over you know, two decades, and you know he's not going to want to serve in an administration that he's just been prosecuting.

So it's.

So it's.

I don't see anything particularly surprising by the decision other than the fact that it's happened now and it kind of creates a finality to, you know, this crazy ride we had starting back in August of twenty twenty three when the President was indicted on federal charges. So it's it's been quite something to see in the process work its way out.

I don't see anything particularly surprising by the decision other than the fact that it's happened now and it kind of creates a finality to, you know, this crazy ride we had starting back in August of twenty twenty three when the President was indicted on federal charges. So it's it's been quite something to see in the process work its way out.

Well.

Well.

And as we consider here that we won't see Genie, the evidence that was actually gathered by Jack Smith presented in a courtroom, we have, to Rick's point, seeing the original indictment than the stuper receiving one and the one that was changed in light of the Supreme Court decision around presidential immunity. A lot of these details made public not just by Jack Smith and the judge in this case, but also, of course, as it pertains to the events of January sixth, specifically by the congressional committee that looked into this and had highly publicized, publicized, televised hearings into this. The American people already had knowledge of a lot of this conduct and voted him to be the forty seventh president anyway, So would it ultimately have even mattered if everything came to light.

And as we consider here that we won't see Genie, the evidence that was actually gathered by Jack Smith presented in a courtroom, we have, to Rick's point, seeing the original indictment than the stuper receiving one and the one that was changed in light of the Supreme Court decision around presidential immunity. A lot of these details made public not just by Jack Smith and the judge in this case, but also, of course, as it pertains to the events of January sixth, specifically by the congressional committee that looked into this and had highly publicized, publicized, televised hearings into this. The American people already had knowledge of a lot of this conduct and voted him to be the forty seventh president anyway, So would it ultimately have even mattered if everything came to light.

Yeah, I mean it's an excellent point, because you know, you'd have to be living under a rock to not be, you know, have knowledge as to what these accusations were, and despite that, you had millions of Americans go to the polls and choose Donald Trump. I do think it's important that Smith and I understand he will issues a report on his findings. That's critically important for posterity. It's critically important for us as historians and scholars. I also think it's critically important that the courts continue to do their job, including define for us what the limits of immunity are. You know, we don't live in a monarchy. The idea of total complete immunity is not what they were talking about, So those limits still need to be defined. And to me, that is even more important than any other continued prosecution of Donald Trump because this speaks to people who serve in these positions going forward, and that's what the government and the courts in particular need to tell us what those limits are, because we've never had to answer this question before.

Yeah, I mean it's an excellent point, because you know, you'd have to be living under a rock to not be, you know, have knowledge as to what these accusations were, and despite that, you had millions of Americans go to the polls and choose Donald Trump. I do think it's important that Smith and I understand he will issues a report on his findings. That's critically important for posterity. It's critically important for us as historians and scholars. I also think it's critically important that the courts continue to do their job, including define for us what the limits of immunity are. You know, we don't live in a monarchy. The idea of total complete immunity is not what they were talking about, So those limits still need to be defined. And to me, that is even more important than any other continued prosecution of Donald Trump because this speaks to people who serve in these positions going forward, and that's what the government and the courts in particular need to tell us what those limits are, because we've never had to answer this question before.

All Right, Jeanie Shanzano alongside Rick Davis. Together they are our signature political panel. Joining me on this Monday edition of Balance of Power. Thank you so much, and we still have more ahead. I'll be joined by Mick Mulvaney, the former chief of staff in the first acting chief of staff in the first Trump White House and director of the Office of Budget and Management as well during that administration. He's next on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

All Right, Jeanie Shanzano alongside Rick Davis. Together they are our signature political panel. Joining me on this Monday edition of Balance of Power. Thank you so much, and we still have more ahead. I'll be joined by Mick Mulvaney, the former chief of staff in the first acting chief of staff in the first Trump White House and director of the Office of Budget and Management as well during that administration. He's next on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketches live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, car Play and then Proud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ketches live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appo, car Play and then Proud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

As expected, the Department of Justice is moving through Special counsel Jack Smith to drop the twenty twenty election obstruction case against the now President elect Donald Trump. There have been signals that this would happen, as it is long standing DOJ policy not to prosecute a sitting president, which Donald Trump will become once again fifty six days from now. But it does end what was already a historic prosecution series of prosecutions frankly against Trump as an individual that are now going away as he gets set to take office for a second time, and of course the first time around when he was the forty fifth President of the United States, mickmove was active in that administration. He's former acting White House Chief of Staff under Trump, former Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and of course co founder as well of the House Freedom Caucus as a former congressman. To boot Mike, we know your resume is long. It's always good to have you here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. There's a lot I'd like to get into when it comes to the OMB specifically, but if we could just first get your reaction to this news. I know you had strong feelings about the events in and around January sixth. Now, Donald Trump not necessarily going to be held accountable for any of that alleged action that he took in the lead up to and during it. But this is largely to be.

As expected, the Department of Justice is moving through Special counsel Jack Smith to drop the twenty twenty election obstruction case against the now President elect Donald Trump. There have been signals that this would happen, as it is long standing DOJ policy not to prosecute a sitting president, which Donald Trump will become once again fifty six days from now. But it does end what was already a historic prosecution series of prosecutions frankly against Trump as an individual that are now going away as he gets set to take office for a second time, and of course the first time around when he was the forty fifth President of the United States, mickmove was active in that administration. He's former acting White House Chief of Staff under Trump, former Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and of course co founder as well of the House Freedom Caucus as a former congressman. To boot Mike, we know your resume is long. It's always good to have you here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. There's a lot I'd like to get into when it comes to the OMB specifically, but if we could just first get your reaction to this news. I know you had strong feelings about the events in and around January sixth. Now, Donald Trump not necessarily going to be held accountable for any of that alleged action that he took in the lead up to and during it. But this is largely to be.

Expected, right it is.

Expected, right it is.

In fact, I think it's probably the biggest story that everybody knew was going to happen.

In fact, I think it's probably the biggest story that everybody knew was going to happen.

Anyway. You can't.

Anyway. You can't.

I mean, it's been long standing policy, as you mentioned, that you don't prosecute a sitting president, which means it would have to sit there for at least four years the prosecution would, which is not tenable. So I guess this is an inevitable sort of side effect.

I mean, it's been long standing policy, as you mentioned, that you don't prosecute a sitting president, which means it would have to sit there for at least four years the prosecution would, which is not tenable. So I guess this is an inevitable sort of side effect.

Of the election.

Of the election.

Yeah, and now we're getting a new announcement from the DJ also formally moving to drop the other federal case against Donald Trump, which was the classified documents case down in Florida, So both federal prosecutions are now out of the picture. He of course has had his sentencing in the case in New York, the state case around the falsification of business records in which he was convicted, That sentencing has been pushed back indefinitely. We're not quite sure at this time what's going to happen with the other state case down in Georgia. But this effectively Mick puts to bed all of his at least criminal legal issues. And I do wonder if he wouldn't be about to go back into the White House had they not happened, Had we not had these series of indictments throughout the course of what was his active presidential campaign, do you think he still would have won.

Yeah, and now we're getting a new announcement from the DJ also formally moving to drop the other federal case against Donald Trump, which was the classified documents case down in Florida, So both federal prosecutions are now out of the picture. He of course has had his sentencing in the case in New York, the state case around the falsification of business records in which he was convicted, That sentencing has been pushed back indefinitely. We're not quite sure at this time what's going to happen with the other state case down in Georgia. But this effectively Mick puts to bed all of his at least criminal legal issues. And I do wonder if he wouldn't be about to go back into the White House had they not happened, Had we not had these series of indictments throughout the course of what was his active presidential campaign, do you think he still would have won.

I think it gave him and you and I have talked about this before a couple of times.

I think it gave him and you and I have talked about this before a couple of times.

It gave him a new message. It gave him a rallying cry.

It gave him a new message. It gave him a rallying cry.

Some of the criminal chargers were so weak, Kayleye, And I know I'm giving an opinion on that, but they were facially very weak. The basis of the case, one of the cases in New York was that he that he paid back a loan early that the debtor didn't or the lender didn't complain about. Another case was revolving around it, you know, criminal charges for legal hush money payments, and it gave him, you know, it raised a lot of questions even with Democrats, as to whether or not he would have been charged with those things if his name wasn't Donald John Trump.

Some of the criminal chargers were so weak, Kayleye, And I know I'm giving an opinion on that, but they were facially very weak. The basis of the case, one of the cases in New York was that he that he paid back a loan early that the debtor didn't or the lender didn't complain about. Another case was revolving around it, you know, criminal charges for legal hush money payments, and it gave him, you know, it raised a lot of questions even with Democrats, as to whether or not he would have been charged with those things if his name wasn't Donald John Trump.

And it gave him that new.

And it gave him that new.

Rallying cry that you know, look at what they're doing to me. If they can do it to me, they can do it to you. Elect me, and that won't happen. It reinvigorated his campaign, so said from the very beginning. If there's one human being probably most response with Donald Trump going back to the White House, it's probably Alvin Bragg, followed closely by Letitia James.

Rallying cry that you know, look at what they're doing to me. If they can do it to me, they can do it to you. Elect me, and that won't happen. It reinvigorated his campaign, so said from the very beginning. If there's one human being probably most response with Donald Trump going back to the White House, it's probably Alvin Bragg, followed closely by Letitia James.

Incredible to consider. And of course, yes, we did hear a lot about this from Donald Trump on the campaign trail. Something else we heard from Trump frequently while he was campaigning is that he had nothing to do with the Heritage Foundations Project twenty twenty five. And yet we have seen a number of people named to be part of his second administration who were affiliated or contributed to that project. And in fact, just a few weeks ago, Joe got to sit down with the President of Heritage, Kevin Roberts, who told him this about the way in which it could be informing this incoming administration's policy decisions.

Incredible to consider. And of course, yes, we did hear a lot about this from Donald Trump on the campaign trail. Something else we heard from Trump frequently while he was campaigning is that he had nothing to do with the Heritage Foundations Project twenty twenty five. And yet we have seen a number of people named to be part of his second administration who were affiliated or contributed to that project. And in fact, just a few weeks ago, Joe got to sit down with the President of Heritage, Kevin Roberts, who told him this about the way in which it could be informing this incoming administration's policy decisions.

We think that this is the beginning of a golden era of conservative reform. I will say that because the work of Project twenty twenty five represents the conservative movement, it would be very difficult for anybody to implement policies on education, on the border, on taxation without at least consulting those ideas in people. That's not some arrogant or hubistic comment.

We think that this is the beginning of a golden era of conservative reform. I will say that because the work of Project twenty twenty five represents the conservative movement, it would be very difficult for anybody to implement policies on education, on the border, on taxation without at least consulting those ideas in people. That's not some arrogant or hubistic comment.

On our part.

On our part.

That's just the nature of how policy making works.

That's just the nature of how policy making works.

And one of those people make that contributed to Project twenty twenty twenty five has now been tapped to take your old job, Omb Director Russ Vote will be reprising his role. And I do wonder what you make of that choice and if it actually does signal anything about the way in which Project twenty twenty five could be working its way into outcomes in this administration.

And one of those people make that contributed to Project twenty twenty twenty five has now been tapped to take your old job, Omb Director Russ Vote will be reprising his role. And I do wonder what you make of that choice and if it actually does signal anything about the way in which Project twenty twenty five could be working its way into outcomes in this administration.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, look, what I think the guy from Heritage was trying to say in so many words, is twenty Project twenty twenty twenty five is just Republican conservative orthodoxy in a lot of different places.

I mean, look, what I think the guy from Heritage was trying to say in so many words, is twenty Project twenty twenty twenty five is just Republican conservative orthodoxy in a lot of different places.

So if you're going to be a Republican president.

So if you're going to be a Republican president.

You're going to probably put into place a lot of things that happened to be in Project twenty twenty five. I do think that the Trump campaign sort of moved away from the project because in large part of the positions on abortion, which they considered to be a liability politically. But look, it's conservative orthodoxy and that's what's going forward.

You're going to probably put into place a lot of things that happened to be in Project twenty twenty five. I do think that the Trump campaign sort of moved away from the project because in large part of the positions on abortion, which they considered to be a liability politically. But look, it's conservative orthodoxy and that's what's going forward.

You asked me about RUSS. I'm very excited about this.

You asked me about RUSS. I'm very excited about this.

In fact, I think, you know, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami get all the attention for this Department of Government efficiency, and they should, and it's an important thing that they're doing. But in order to implement the things that I think they're going to start recommending, you have to have Omb on board. And nobody knows more about government works or doesn't work than RUSS votes. So I thought it was a really, really solid decision at Omb, and he'll make a good member of that government deficiency team. Keep in mind, the last time President Trump asked somebody to restructure the federal government, it was me, and we didn't have much luck because the whole of the deep state was against us, and some of our cabinet secretaries were against us. I think I don't think that that troika of Elon, Vevek and Russ are going to have the same impediments that we had in twenty eighteen.

In fact, I think, you know, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswami get all the attention for this Department of Government efficiency, and they should, and it's an important thing that they're doing. But in order to implement the things that I think they're going to start recommending, you have to have Omb on board. And nobody knows more about government works or doesn't work than RUSS votes. So I thought it was a really, really solid decision at Omb, and he'll make a good member of that government deficiency team. Keep in mind, the last time President Trump asked somebody to restructure the federal government, it was me, and we didn't have much luck because the whole of the deep state was against us, and some of our cabinet secretaries were against us. I think I don't think that that troika of Elon, Vevek and Russ are going to have the same impediments that we had in twenty eighteen.

Well, and you could potentially add another name to that team as well as Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia. Apparently we'll be leading a House Oversight subcommittee helping implement the DOGE recommendations. I do wonder though, as we know that that Department quote unquote does have intel July fourth of twenty twenty six to make these proposals. To do this work, there are going to be spending battles being fought in Congress well before that. Basically right when we get into the new year, the new Congress and the new administration, we're going to have to deal not just with regular appropriations, but a debt stealing fight. Well, and I wonder how you think russ vote will navigate those what it means for the ultimate outcomes of what those deals could look like.

Well, and you could potentially add another name to that team as well as Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia. Apparently we'll be leading a House Oversight subcommittee helping implement the DOGE recommendations. I do wonder though, as we know that that Department quote unquote does have intel July fourth of twenty twenty six to make these proposals. To do this work, there are going to be spending battles being fought in Congress well before that. Basically right when we get into the new year, the new Congress and the new administration, we're going to have to deal not just with regular appropriations, but a debt stealing fight. Well, and I wonder how you think russ vote will navigate those what it means for the ultimate outcomes of what those deals could look like.

Well, what Russ is going to do, and this is what good staffers are supposed to do, and Russ was a good staffer in the previous administration. I have every expectation he's going to be a good staffer going forward is simply laying out the facts and the arguments for the president. Russ is a lot more fiscally conservative than the president United States is, just as I was. Trump wanted to hear from the fiscally conservative wing of the party and he wanted to hear from other folks as well, and Russ will be the loudest voice in those discussions. You're right, we've got appropriations bills to deal with, You've got the debt ceiling to deal with.

Well, what Russ is going to do, and this is what good staffers are supposed to do, and Russ was a good staffer in the previous administration. I have every expectation he's going to be a good staffer going forward is simply laying out the facts and the arguments for the president. Russ is a lot more fiscally conservative than the president United States is, just as I was. Trump wanted to hear from the fiscally conservative wing of the party and he wanted to hear from other folks as well, and Russ will be the loudest voice in those discussions. You're right, we've got appropriations bills to deal with, You've got the debt ceiling to deal with.

You've got to look very closely.

You've got to look very closely.

Kailey, to that first sort of that thin budget that will come out in the first couple of weeks of the administration, because that will be the first indication is what their priorities are. President's budget is a messaging budget, you know, what are their priorities going to be? And Russ will be obviously have his hand in that. So it's going to be a very quick or a fast moving couple of weeks on those spending issues, and it will be interesting to see what not Trump comes down sort of with that more the heavier spending side of the party or the fiscally conservative side of the party that Russ represents so well.

Kailey, to that first sort of that thin budget that will come out in the first couple of weeks of the administration, because that will be the first indication is what their priorities are. President's budget is a messaging budget, you know, what are their priorities going to be? And Russ will be obviously have his hand in that. So it's going to be a very quick or a fast moving couple of weeks on those spending issues, and it will be interesting to see what not Trump comes down sort of with that more the heavier spending side of the party or the fiscally conservative side of the party that Russ represents so well.

Well, and in those initial those first weeks, Mick, there also is going to be a really narrow majority in the chamber you used to sit in the House of Representatives. It's really going to be only a few votes that Mike Johnson can afford to lose as Speaker because Trump has pulled three members of the House for this administration, or I guess when you include Matt Gates having resigned no longer being part of the administration, that's still a vote gone in a special election that's not being held until April first. How hard is this going to be to get done with such a slim majority?

Well, and in those initial those first weeks, Mick, there also is going to be a really narrow majority in the chamber you used to sit in the House of Representatives. It's really going to be only a few votes that Mike Johnson can afford to lose as Speaker because Trump has pulled three members of the House for this administration, or I guess when you include Matt Gates having resigned no longer being part of the administration, that's still a vote gone in a special election that's not being held until April first. How hard is this going to be to get done with such a slim majority?

Really hard.

Really hard.

I think people lose sight of the fact it's not quite as bad as it sounds, just because technically Waltz is still a member of the House and can still vote.

I think people lose sight of the fact it's not quite as bad as it sounds, just because technically Waltz is still a member of the House and can still vote.

Traditionally you don't, but you can.

Traditionally you don't, but you can.

I never voted after I was nominated for the OMB back in twenty seventeen, but I could have.

I never voted after I was nominated for the OMB back in twenty seventeen, but I could have.

It would have been legal for me to do that.

It would have been legal for me to do that.

So until those folks are confirmed, all those House members, they are still sitting and can vote, so they don't really lose those Republican votes. Mike Johnson doesn't lose those Republican votes until those folks resign. Now, yes, obviously mentioned Matt Gates has already gone, so that narrows it a little bit. But to your point, it's going to be tight, There's no question about that.

So until those folks are confirmed, all those House members, they are still sitting and can vote, so they don't really lose those Republican votes. Mike Johnson doesn't lose those Republican votes until those folks resign. Now, yes, obviously mentioned Matt Gates has already gone, so that narrows it a little bit. But to your point, it's going to be tight, There's no question about that.

And he's not going to be able to afford to lose any folks, I think, any votes.

And he's not going to be able to afford to lose any folks, I think, any votes.

I think the one thing that's sort of sitting there, the eight hundred pound gerrill in the room, is that Donald Trump still has a lot of influence over the Republican Party, probably never more so than now, and if they want to whip votes, they should be very successful in doing that well.

I think the one thing that's sort of sitting there, the eight hundred pound gerrill in the room, is that Donald Trump still has a lot of influence over the Republican Party, probably never more so than now, and if they want to whip votes, they should be very successful in doing that well.

Perhaps though not enough influence over at least the Republicans in the Senate to be able to get someone like Gates through the confirmation process, hence himself gains taking himself out of contention for that role. When we look at some of these other nominees Toolsey Gabbard, RFK Junior, Pete Hegseeth, do you think there could still be Republican resistance adequate enough to potentially tank those nominations, Mick or is everyone else going to get through?

Perhaps though not enough influence over at least the Republicans in the Senate to be able to get someone like Gates through the confirmation process, hence himself gains taking himself out of contention for that role. When we look at some of these other nominees Toolsey Gabbard, RFK Junior, Pete Hegseeth, do you think there could still be Republican resistance adequate enough to potentially tank those nominations, Mick or is everyone else going to get through?

You know, it's it's a really good question.

You know, it's it's a really good question.

It's one of those inside the Beltway questions, because oftentimes it's not every single administration, but oftentimes what will happen is an incoming administration will offer up a sacrificial lamb somebody they know they can't get confirmed because they're too extreme one way or the other, but it satisfies their base and it gives sort of a little sop to the minority party in the Senate. We saw this back in twenty twenty one with Nero Teten, who was nominated for omb by the Biden administration, even though a lot of Democrats thought she was too progressively left to get confirmed, and indeed she wasn't she They took that name down. Was Matt Gates that sacrificial lamb? Or was he sort of a different thing entirely. I think if you look at the if you look at the names you just gave, I gotta think Kennedy's got the toughest road just because he's.

It's one of those inside the Beltway questions, because oftentimes it's not every single administration, but oftentimes what will happen is an incoming administration will offer up a sacrificial lamb somebody they know they can't get confirmed because they're too extreme one way or the other, but it satisfies their base and it gives sort of a little sop to the minority party in the Senate. We saw this back in twenty twenty one with Nero Teten, who was nominated for omb by the Biden administration, even though a lot of Democrats thought she was too progressively left to get confirmed, and indeed she wasn't she They took that name down. Was Matt Gates that sacrificial lamb? Or was he sort of a different thing entirely. I think if you look at the if you look at the names you just gave, I gotta think Kennedy's got the toughest road just because he's.

Such a weird guy.

Such a weird guy.

I mean, I hate to use the word that you know, you know, that word meant something before Tim Waal start using on the campaign. But he's he's he's an unusual human being, and it should make for an interesting confirmation process.

I mean, I hate to use the word that you know, you know, that word meant something before Tim Waal start using on the campaign. But he's he's he's an unusual human being, and it should make for an interesting confirmation process.

Heg Seth will get the attention because of the post.

Heg Seth will get the attention because of the post.

Obviously, HHS, which Kennedy's nominated for, is not as critical, is not as perceived as being as high ranking as the Secretary of Defense is. But every time people ask about Hegseth, I say, look, if he wasn't on TV and he was just somebody with degrees from Princeton and Harvard who had written a couple of books on the topic, had two Bronze stars served overseas two different times, I don't think you'd be getting the negative attention that you were.

Obviously, HHS, which Kennedy's nominated for, is not as critical, is not as perceived as being as high ranking as the Secretary of Defense is. But every time people ask about Hegseth, I say, look, if he wasn't on TV and he was just somebody with degrees from Princeton and Harvard who had written a couple of books on the topic, had two Bronze stars served overseas two different times, I don't think you'd be getting the negative attention that you were.

So I think Hegseith is fine. I think Tools is fine.

So I think Hegseith is fine. I think Tools is fine.

I think if anybody is going to have the biggest challenge, it's going to be Kennedy.

I think if anybody is going to have the biggest challenge, it's going to be Kennedy.

Well, and finally Mick. As we consider here the notion of future challenges around all of these things, I do wonder, assuming that these people can't even get confirmed, what challenges they may face upon actually stepping into the job. If this transition is delayed because of a lack of signing of ethics and transparency pledges in order to get access to the classified or at least not public information they need to do their roles. What do you make of of the slow walking here.

Well, and finally Mick. As we consider here the notion of future challenges around all of these things, I do wonder, assuming that these people can't even get confirmed, what challenges they may face upon actually stepping into the job. If this transition is delayed because of a lack of signing of ethics and transparency pledges in order to get access to the classified or at least not public information they need to do their roles. What do you make of of the slow walking here.

Listen that slow walking. It works both ways. There's a net.

Listen that slow walking. It works both ways. There's a net.

You're seeing a natural tension now between the administrative, the executive branch, and the legislative branch. It has very little to do with party and everything to do with structure. The incomeing administration doesn't want to sort of give everything to the Senate all at one time, and the Senate doesn't want to move very quickly. Keep in mind, I've often said that, you know, advise and consent has in large part become extort and delay. I can't tell you the number of Republican centators who called me when I was at OMB, trying to get stuff out of me in exchange for lower level confirmations moving forward and so forth. So there's that natural tension. I think it's important that the Treasury Secretary go early, Secretary State Defense go early, and that the OMB go early, just because you do have to write that budget very quickly.

You're seeing a natural tension now between the administrative, the executive branch, and the legislative branch. It has very little to do with party and everything to do with structure. The incomeing administration doesn't want to sort of give everything to the Senate all at one time, and the Senate doesn't want to move very quickly. Keep in mind, I've often said that, you know, advise and consent has in large part become extort and delay. I can't tell you the number of Republican centators who called me when I was at OMB, trying to get stuff out of me in exchange for lower level confirmations moving forward and so forth. So there's that natural tension. I think it's important that the Treasury Secretary go early, Secretary State Defense go early, and that the OMB go early, just because you do have to write that budget very quickly.

My guess is those.

My guess is those.

Will be the first ones confirmed, and then the other ones may drag out over the course of the next couple of months.

Will be the first ones confirmed, and then the other ones may drag out over the course of the next couple of months.

Well.

Well.

Of course, he used to be director of the UMB himself. Mick mulvaney also former acting Chief of Staff in the Trump White House joining us here on Balance of Power. Thank you so much, especially as Mick helps us react to the breaking news we have gotten just this hour, the Justice Department making it official that they are dropping the prosecutions the federal ones of the now president elect in both cases. That includes the document's case in Florida and of course the case related to twenty twenty election subversion brought against Donald Trump. Here in Washington. We have had reaction from Trump's communications director Stephen Chung, who says, in part, the American people re elected President Trump with an overwhelming mandate to make America great again. Today's decision by the DOJ and the unconstitutional federal cases against President Trump and is a major victory for the rule of law.

Of course, he used to be director of the UMB himself. Mick mulvaney also former acting Chief of Staff in the Trump White House joining us here on Balance of Power. Thank you so much, especially as Mick helps us react to the breaking news we have gotten just this hour, the Justice Department making it official that they are dropping the prosecutions the federal ones of the now president elect in both cases. That includes the document's case in Florida and of course the case related to twenty twenty election subversion brought against Donald Trump. Here in Washington. We have had reaction from Trump's communications director Stephen Chung, who says, in part, the American people re elected President Trump with an overwhelming mandate to make America great again. Today's decision by the DOJ and the unconstitutional federal cases against President Trump and is a major victory for the rule of law.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then ron Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alecxa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens just live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then ron Oto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alecxa from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

You're in Washington. We're getting this work week started after what was a short weekend for many political journalists because work went well into the night on Friday, as it was Friday evening when the President elect Donald Trump decided to dump a whole host of cabinet level nominations on us, including that, as we've mentioned of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent tapped for that job, but we also got his selection to be the next Secretary of Labor. The current congressman Republican or congresswoman rather from Oregon, Lori Chavez de Riemer, and her nomination is already getting some pushback, not from Democrats as you might expect, but actually from Republicans, as conservatives have some concern about her support for the pro Act protecting the Right to organize. She was one of just three Republican co sponsors of that legislation, and some see that as a sign that she might be too close to labor unions. So for more on this and what it signals about the approach to unions this incoming administration will be taken, we turn to SETH Harris back with us here on balance of power. He of course, was a top labor policy advisor to President Biden. He's now a senior fellow at the Burn Center for social Change at Northeastern University. Seth, Welcome back to the program. I do wonder what you know of Shavez Dreamer, excuse me, and how close to unions you really perceive her to be.

You're in Washington. We're getting this work week started after what was a short weekend for many political journalists because work went well into the night on Friday, as it was Friday evening when the President elect Donald Trump decided to dump a whole host of cabinet level nominations on us, including that, as we've mentioned of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent tapped for that job, but we also got his selection to be the next Secretary of Labor. The current congressman Republican or congresswoman rather from Oregon, Lori Chavez de Riemer, and her nomination is already getting some pushback, not from Democrats as you might expect, but actually from Republicans, as conservatives have some concern about her support for the pro Act protecting the Right to organize. She was one of just three Republican co sponsors of that legislation, and some see that as a sign that she might be too close to labor unions. So for more on this and what it signals about the approach to unions this incoming administration will be taken, we turn to SETH Harris back with us here on balance of power. He of course, was a top labor policy advisor to President Biden. He's now a senior fellow at the Burn Center for social Change at Northeastern University. Seth, Welcome back to the program. I do wonder what you know of Shavez Dreamer, excuse me, and how close to unions you really perceive her to be.

What I know about her is that she is a unicorn. She is a genuine pro union Republican and we thought they had all gone extinct, but here we found one in nature or President Trump founder in nature. She had support from several unions in her re election campaign, which was unsuccessful. As you noted earlier, she is a sponsor of co sponsor of the pro Act, which is the private sector worker organizing legislation that has been pushed aggressively by the labor movement, particularly the AFLCIO. She's also a supporter of a very important public sector worker organizing piece of legislation. So these are positions taken by only a very very very small handful of Republicans in Congress, and that's why she is facing some pushback from elements of the business community and also from some Senate Republicans.