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Hello and welcome to Prophets Healthcare Changemakers Podcast, where we'll be talking to leaders in health care who are focused on transforming their organizations to drive the next level of growth for their business and for health care and profit. We believe that the organizations that thrive in health care are those that dare to change the game, striving to improve human health, create better experiences and make the best of care an enduring and sustainable reality for all those that will transform health care are the change makers. And for this podcast, we want to focus on them. Our podcast dives into and recognizes the people behind the transformation and their journeys in changing the game one story at a time. Are you ready to dive in?

Hello and welcome to Prophets Healthcare Changemakers Podcast, where we'll be talking to leaders in health care who are focused on transforming their organizations to drive the next level of growth for their business and for health care and profit. We believe that the organizations that thrive in health care are those that dare to change the game, striving to improve human health, create better experiences and make the best of care an enduring and sustainable reality for all those that will transform health care are the change makers. And for this podcast, we want to focus on them. Our podcast dives into and recognizes the people behind the transformation and their journeys in changing the game one story at a time. Are you ready to dive in?

Thank you for joining us on this podcast. Today's guest, we are thrilled to have Jim Rogers, who is the chief business development officer and the interim chief strategy officer for the Mayo Clinic. Jim, thanks for being here.

Thank you for joining us on this podcast. Today's guest, we are thrilled to have Jim Rogers, who is the chief business development officer and the interim chief strategy officer for the Mayo Clinic. Jim, thanks for being here.

Jeff, I'm really pleased to be here. Thank you.

Jeff, I'm really pleased to be here. Thank you.

Jim, why don't we start, if we could. Tell us about yourself and your role at the Mayo Clinic beyond the title I just shared. And then keep going and tell us one fun fact that cannot be found on your LinkedIn profile.

Jim, why don't we start, if we could. Tell us about yourself and your role at the Mayo Clinic beyond the title I just shared. And then keep going and tell us one fun fact that cannot be found on your LinkedIn profile.

Sounds good. So business development at Mayo has aspects of what you would expect in a business development group. So we have what's called corporate development, and that's like a traditional business development shop in a in a corporation. Their role is really focused on how do we move the strategic goals of Mayo Clinic forward. So they support what we'll talk a little bit about today platform. They support Mayo Clinic International, Mayo Clinic Labs and also what we call high value opportunities. And these are really opportunities that can continue to bring revenue back to Mayo so that Mayo can reinvest that revenue in our three field mission, which is practice research and education. We also have a technology transfer organization, but it's not a traditional technology transfer organization. It's something that we've developed into a business. It's really designed to drive innovation to the marketplace for the benefit of patients. And sometimes that means it comes out of mail that these innovations are mayo developed, and sometimes it means that these innovations come from third parties. That group is called Mayo Clinic Ventures. And Mayo Clinic Ventures has a long history here at Mayo, started probably in the late eighties when the Abidal Act came into play. But the proactive strategy is something that's really been over probably the last ten, ten years or so, and it's really bearing a lot of fruit from both a revenue standpoint, but also from a commercialization perspective. It's generating a lot of innovation for the benefit of patients. And again, that revenue that's generated off of that comes back to Mayo to be reinvested.

Sounds good. So business development at Mayo has aspects of what you would expect in a business development group. So we have what's called corporate development, and that's like a traditional business development shop in a in a corporation. Their role is really focused on how do we move the strategic goals of Mayo Clinic forward. So they support what we'll talk a little bit about today platform. They support Mayo Clinic International, Mayo Clinic Labs and also what we call high value opportunities. And these are really opportunities that can continue to bring revenue back to Mayo so that Mayo can reinvest that revenue in our three field mission, which is practice research and education. We also have a technology transfer organization, but it's not a traditional technology transfer organization. It's something that we've developed into a business. It's really designed to drive innovation to the marketplace for the benefit of patients. And sometimes that means it comes out of mail that these innovations are mayo developed, and sometimes it means that these innovations come from third parties. That group is called Mayo Clinic Ventures. And Mayo Clinic Ventures has a long history here at Mayo, started probably in the late eighties when the Abidal Act came into play. But the proactive strategy is something that's really been over probably the last ten, ten years or so, and it's really bearing a lot of fruit from both a revenue standpoint, but also from a commercialization perspective. It's generating a lot of innovation for the benefit of patients. And again, that revenue that's generated off of that comes back to Mayo to be reinvested.

Good. So that's the business development side. And then tell us about the strategy portion of your role.

Good. So that's the business development side. And then tell us about the strategy portion of your role.

So strategy is interesting. I'm partnering with Matt Carlstrom. Matt is a physician here. He heads the Department of Radiology. Long story short, just a remarkable individual to work with. But here at Mayo, we tend to have dyads. So that means that you have a business person or an administrator partnered with a physician. That's my DYAD partner Strategy is an excellent organization within Mayo. The recently was formed out of several different groups. Within Mayo. We have project managers, we have management consultants, and we also have high level strategists and data analytics and folks who are really focused on how do you put strategy into action. So that's that group. And that group is working very closely on our bold forward strategy, which in part a key pillar of that of that strategy is how do we turn pipeline businesses into a platform, particularly as it relates to health care. So one fun fact was I came up as a patent attorney. So my previous roles before Mayo were at Dorsey Whitney, which is now, I believe called Dorsey, and then 3 a.m. company, two fabulous organizations, can't say enough good things about both of those organizations. Really enjoyed my work there. And then when I started at Mayo, I started the patent function in Mayo, and then after over time, I moved into running Mayo, what's now Mayo Clinic Ventures and then running the combined business development group. And at some point I also worked in regenerative medicine. But the fun fact is, the last really official thing I did as a pen attorney was a Supreme Court case where we were sued by a company alleging pad infringement. We believed that the patents were invalid because essentially the company was trying to patent laws of nature. And just really briefly, when you think about a patent, it's kind of a contract, almost the same way of thinking about a contract. US government gives you a monopoly. Under that monopoly, you have the right to exclude others, but you tell everybody what you do so that people can design around. And the intent then is that you continue to spur innovation that way. But if you patent a law of nature, there's really no effective way to design around. And so we felt that this was something we had to defend on, we did defend on it, and at the end of the day, it ended up in the Supreme Court. Some great quotes came out of it. The Wall Street Journal at one point in time, I believe, said, Hold the Mayo play on Mayo Clinic. I was quoted in the same paragraph as Albert Einstein. My wife likes to point out that Albert Einstein, it was it was really a fascinating journey. And ultimately we prevailed. Nine zero, which is pretty rare in these these times. There was still a split court back then when it happened, and I think it made a real positive impact for people because it knocked out a lot of patents that were frankly overbroad and in keeping with the true intent of the law.

So strategy is interesting. I'm partnering with Matt Carlstrom. Matt is a physician here. He heads the Department of Radiology. Long story short, just a remarkable individual to work with. But here at Mayo, we tend to have dyads. So that means that you have a business person or an administrator partnered with a physician. That's my DYAD partner Strategy is an excellent organization within Mayo. The recently was formed out of several different groups. Within Mayo. We have project managers, we have management consultants, and we also have high level strategists and data analytics and folks who are really focused on how do you put strategy into action. So that's that group. And that group is working very closely on our bold forward strategy, which in part a key pillar of that of that strategy is how do we turn pipeline businesses into a platform, particularly as it relates to health care. So one fun fact was I came up as a patent attorney. So my previous roles before Mayo were at Dorsey Whitney, which is now, I believe called Dorsey, and then 3 a.m. company, two fabulous organizations, can't say enough good things about both of those organizations. Really enjoyed my work there. And then when I started at Mayo, I started the patent function in Mayo, and then after over time, I moved into running Mayo, what's now Mayo Clinic Ventures and then running the combined business development group. And at some point I also worked in regenerative medicine. But the fun fact is, the last really official thing I did as a pen attorney was a Supreme Court case where we were sued by a company alleging pad infringement. We believed that the patents were invalid because essentially the company was trying to patent laws of nature. And just really briefly, when you think about a patent, it's kind of a contract, almost the same way of thinking about a contract. US government gives you a monopoly. Under that monopoly, you have the right to exclude others, but you tell everybody what you do so that people can design around. And the intent then is that you continue to spur innovation that way. But if you patent a law of nature, there's really no effective way to design around. And so we felt that this was something we had to defend on, we did defend on it, and at the end of the day, it ended up in the Supreme Court. Some great quotes came out of it. The Wall Street Journal at one point in time, I believe, said, Hold the Mayo play on Mayo Clinic. I was quoted in the same paragraph as Albert Einstein. My wife likes to point out that Albert Einstein, it was it was really a fascinating journey. And ultimately we prevailed. Nine zero, which is pretty rare in these these times. There was still a split court back then when it happened, and I think it made a real positive impact for people because it knocked out a lot of patents that were frankly overbroad and in keeping with the true intent of the law.

Certainly a career highlight, I'm sure. So. For. We get into the platform business, which I know is a lot of exciting and lot of the things that Dr. Farrugia is speaking about and writing about. But before we go there, I just want to take a minute back to what I'll call the traditional location based delivery of care business for Mayo Clinic, which I know that you and Dr. Fruit have kind of taken calling the pipeline business. I just want to ask you, this is Mayo Clinic has added locations in the last five years or so. Right. Partnerships in London and partnerships in the UAE. I just love to get a sense with your strategy hat on is what role will physical location based expansion play for the Mayo Clinic when it thinks about its mission of inspiring hope and promoting health through integrated clinical practice, education and research?

Certainly a career highlight, I'm sure. So. For. We get into the platform business, which I know is a lot of exciting and lot of the things that Dr. Farrugia is speaking about and writing about. But before we go there, I just want to take a minute back to what I'll call the traditional location based delivery of care business for Mayo Clinic, which I know that you and Dr. Fruit have kind of taken calling the pipeline business. I just want to ask you, this is Mayo Clinic has added locations in the last five years or so. Right. Partnerships in London and partnerships in the UAE. I just love to get a sense with your strategy hat on is what role will physical location based expansion play for the Mayo Clinic when it thinks about its mission of inspiring hope and promoting health through integrated clinical practice, education and research?

You know, at our heart we're a destination practice. And what that means is people will fly, drive by many other health systems to get to us because we practice cautionary care, you know, tertiary quaternary care, serious and complex care. When you think about it, it's do you have an unknown diagnosis? Many times people come to Mount Hood to get their diagnosis. There's always going to be a need for effective physical spaces for us to practice and for health care in general. So that's not going to go away. It'll be different in the future than what it is today. Of that, there's no doubt. And what we have to understand is what is that going to look like? We none of us have a crystal ball. And I think we have to understand that while our values will never change, the physical locations will be still critical for us to be able to effectively practice medicine. And so we are continuing to invest significantly in Florida and our campus there in Arizona and our campus there and in Minnesota and our campus there and including throughout our health system, which is in the upper Midwest. And then you mentioned we have a joint kind of partnership that we have done both in the Middle East and in London. And those are areas that we're exploring. We're trying to sort out what makes the most sense for Mayo Clinic and for patients, not just domestically, but also internationally.

You know, at our heart we're a destination practice. And what that means is people will fly, drive by many other health systems to get to us because we practice cautionary care, you know, tertiary quaternary care, serious and complex care. When you think about it, it's do you have an unknown diagnosis? Many times people come to Mount Hood to get their diagnosis. There's always going to be a need for effective physical spaces for us to practice and for health care in general. So that's not going to go away. It'll be different in the future than what it is today. Of that, there's no doubt. And what we have to understand is what is that going to look like? We none of us have a crystal ball. And I think we have to understand that while our values will never change, the physical locations will be still critical for us to be able to effectively practice medicine. And so we are continuing to invest significantly in Florida and our campus there in Arizona and our campus there and in Minnesota and our campus there and including throughout our health system, which is in the upper Midwest. And then you mentioned we have a joint kind of partnership that we have done both in the Middle East and in London. And those are areas that we're exploring. We're trying to sort out what makes the most sense for Mayo Clinic and for patients, not just domestically, but also internationally.

So a skeptic could ask and I'm sure has asked. So I know you've heard this question before. With so much of the globe that doesn't have physical access to the Mayo Clinic. Right. And you've just you're just scratching the surface with London and the Middle East, that could be a focus of your expansion for the next ten years and then some. Right. Doing it right. What made you decide as an organization that to achieve your mission, sticking with the what you now call a pipeline business wasn't sufficient that led you to the platform business.

So a skeptic could ask and I'm sure has asked. So I know you've heard this question before. With so much of the globe that doesn't have physical access to the Mayo Clinic. Right. And you've just you're just scratching the surface with London and the Middle East, that could be a focus of your expansion for the next ten years and then some. Right. Doing it right. What made you decide as an organization that to achieve your mission, sticking with the what you now call a pipeline business wasn't sufficient that led you to the platform business.

It was simply not scalable. We can't have folks on the ground in every one of these locations. We, at least in our opinion, we simply can't do it. We don't think it's right for the patients. It's not a model that will work for Mayo Clinic. So in economical and in a lot of ways, that's really the beauty of a platform. A platform allows scale. It also allows us to see innovations from all over the world and push innovation through. So it's not just about Mayo. It's really about the health care system. If you think about it, and it allows Mayo to at least scale its knowledge while hopefully scaling others knowledge, it also allows mail to bring in innovations. Whereas before we had to travel the world to find the innovations, you know, in Mayo Clinic first started, we didn't invent aseptic surgery, but we adopted it here in Minnesota, using it in our hospitals. And it really had a fundamental shift in the hospital previously being a place to go, to essentially die, to know hope and healing. Now, if you could imagine all kinds of innovations occurring on a platform, now you're able to see the best of the best, not just what mail might invent, but what third parties invent. And then when you start thinking about your question about how do we get our knowledge out to third parties, we really can't put a facility in each country. Or should we? But we can scale our knowledge to each country if we do it right through the platform.

It was simply not scalable. We can't have folks on the ground in every one of these locations. We, at least in our opinion, we simply can't do it. We don't think it's right for the patients. It's not a model that will work for Mayo Clinic. So in economical and in a lot of ways, that's really the beauty of a platform. A platform allows scale. It also allows us to see innovations from all over the world and push innovation through. So it's not just about Mayo. It's really about the health care system. If you think about it, and it allows Mayo to at least scale its knowledge while hopefully scaling others knowledge, it also allows mail to bring in innovations. Whereas before we had to travel the world to find the innovations, you know, in Mayo Clinic first started, we didn't invent aseptic surgery, but we adopted it here in Minnesota, using it in our hospitals. And it really had a fundamental shift in the hospital previously being a place to go, to essentially die, to know hope and healing. Now, if you could imagine all kinds of innovations occurring on a platform, now you're able to see the best of the best, not just what mail might invent, but what third parties invent. And then when you start thinking about your question about how do we get our knowledge out to third parties, we really can't put a facility in each country. Or should we? But we can scale our knowledge to each country if we do it right through the platform.

So in other words, it's a more efficient way to do it, right? Taking advantage of digital means to extend your expertise in a way that you've traditionally been able to correct.

So in other words, it's a more efficient way to do it, right? Taking advantage of digital means to extend your expertise in a way that you've traditionally been able to correct.

And when you think about it, it also hopefully continues to add for it to be successful. It really means everyone gets access to data. It really means everyone gets access to innovation. And so what that means is it continues to push us to be better and better, right? So for us to stay at the forefront of medicine, we have to continue to strive to be better and better by our own platform, because in a lot of ways, our own platform is part of what's causing the positive disruption and transformation in the health care system.

And when you think about it, it also hopefully continues to add for it to be successful. It really means everyone gets access to data. It really means everyone gets access to innovation. And so what that means is it continues to push us to be better and better, right? So for us to stay at the forefront of medicine, we have to continue to strive to be better and better by our own platform, because in a lot of ways, our own platform is part of what's causing the positive disruption and transformation in the health care system.

Set another way, and I think I'm just kind of playing back what I'm hearing from you is that while the platform business is dependent upon the health of the pipeline and what you feed into it, the pipeline business is dependent upon the platform. They're augmenting each other.

Set another way, and I think I'm just kind of playing back what I'm hearing from you is that while the platform business is dependent upon the health of the pipeline and what you feed into it, the pipeline business is dependent upon the platform. They're augmenting each other.

Right. And it's not a binary system either. It's the platform as. What we're doing in our pipeline models. The pipeline is powering what we're doing in the platform model. But it's not a 1 to 1 correlation.

Right. And it's not a binary system either. It's the platform as. What we're doing in our pipeline models. The pipeline is powering what we're doing in the platform model. But it's not a 1 to 1 correlation.

So give us the summary of the Mayo Clinic platform. There's a lot of platform businesses out there, but what's the 32nd kind of summary of what the Mayo Clinic platform is and is becoming?

So give us the summary of the Mayo Clinic platform. There's a lot of platform businesses out there, but what's the 32nd kind of summary of what the Mayo Clinic platform is and is becoming?

Yes, you have to discover, which is essentially what I just talked about for data. We have a great partnership with a company called Inference, and we have the capacity now for people to be able to access our data de-identified matter and gather insights on it. We're also in the process of bringing in additional data sources, so you'll see additional data sources that are coming in and combining it, making it very, very powerful. We have gather and deliver and essentially what what we're trying to accomplish there and are accomplishing there is the ability to bring forward disparate datasets, bring them forward in a way that we can standardize and harmonize and deliver them. For example, if you're trying to do algorithm development as an example, you need to be able to make sense of all the disparate datasets, need to build, bring them in an systematized way, meaning be able to operate on them, and you need to be able to push them back out and use them. So gather and deliver is another place where we're working and another place is accelerate. And what accelerate has is the ability to basically have new codes coming in and have access to what we're doing in the platform and allow them to accelerate their development more quickly. It's a win for them from the perspective of the acceleration. It's a win for us because we get to see all these new innovations at an earlier stage. So very excited about that. And I think when you look at the whole combination of our platform, essentially what it is is it's taking health care and trying to transform it. We're not just simply digitizing what we're doing. We're trying to figure out where is health care going, where do we need to be to continue to offer hope and healing to our patients, to be able to continue to answer these really vexing questions for our patients? And the beauty of it all is when you think about how quickly innovation is absolutely taking traction right now, I mean, think about like Jimmy Carter, right prior to checkpoint inhibitors and immunotherapy, your first line therapy was a platinum or something like that from the forties for metastatic melanoma Now checkpoint inhibitor. He's had stage four cancer. He's still walking around. Think about how quickly things are evolving as the digital kind of revolution meets with data, meets with artificial intelligence, meets with the clinical practice. That's a powerful thing, a powerful place to be. It's disruptive to people, but at the same time the potential is astronomical. And that's what our platform is designed to be able to support and enhance so that people everywhere can innovate, people everywhere are able to deliver their ideas. And then at the end of the day, we transform health care accordingly.

Yes, you have to discover, which is essentially what I just talked about for data. We have a great partnership with a company called Inference, and we have the capacity now for people to be able to access our data de-identified matter and gather insights on it. We're also in the process of bringing in additional data sources, so you'll see additional data sources that are coming in and combining it, making it very, very powerful. We have gather and deliver and essentially what what we're trying to accomplish there and are accomplishing there is the ability to bring forward disparate datasets, bring them forward in a way that we can standardize and harmonize and deliver them. For example, if you're trying to do algorithm development as an example, you need to be able to make sense of all the disparate datasets, need to build, bring them in an systematized way, meaning be able to operate on them, and you need to be able to push them back out and use them. So gather and deliver is another place where we're working and another place is accelerate. And what accelerate has is the ability to basically have new codes coming in and have access to what we're doing in the platform and allow them to accelerate their development more quickly. It's a win for them from the perspective of the acceleration. It's a win for us because we get to see all these new innovations at an earlier stage. So very excited about that. And I think when you look at the whole combination of our platform, essentially what it is is it's taking health care and trying to transform it. We're not just simply digitizing what we're doing. We're trying to figure out where is health care going, where do we need to be to continue to offer hope and healing to our patients, to be able to continue to answer these really vexing questions for our patients? And the beauty of it all is when you think about how quickly innovation is absolutely taking traction right now, I mean, think about like Jimmy Carter, right prior to checkpoint inhibitors and immunotherapy, your first line therapy was a platinum or something like that from the forties for metastatic melanoma Now checkpoint inhibitor. He's had stage four cancer. He's still walking around. Think about how quickly things are evolving as the digital kind of revolution meets with data, meets with artificial intelligence, meets with the clinical practice. That's a powerful thing, a powerful place to be. It's disruptive to people, but at the same time the potential is astronomical. And that's what our platform is designed to be able to support and enhance so that people everywhere can innovate, people everywhere are able to deliver their ideas. And then at the end of the day, we transform health care accordingly.

So you've got the platform team has both internal and external customers. You've got the clinicians that you do important work for, maybe more important than anywhere, and then clinicians around the globe as well.

So you've got the platform team has both internal and external customers. You've got the clinicians that you do important work for, maybe more important than anywhere, and then clinicians around the globe as well.

That's exactly right. And when you look at it, that model really reduces the friction between the folks that are going to be operating, the users and the producers that will be on that technology platform. We're trying to do make it as simple as possible to continue to move the needle.

That's exactly right. And when you look at it, that model really reduces the friction between the folks that are going to be operating, the users and the producers that will be on that technology platform. We're trying to do make it as simple as possible to continue to move the needle.

Thank you for that. So the question I know you're wrestling with is why is the Mayo Clinic better able to do that and say a technology company or data company? Right. A Google, they can stitch together disparate data sets and create that test base for digital innovators to come in and take advantage of it. What's the unique kind of Mayo Clinic special sauce in that realm?

Thank you for that. So the question I know you're wrestling with is why is the Mayo Clinic better able to do that and say a technology company or data company? Right. A Google, they can stitch together disparate data sets and create that test base for digital innovators to come in and take advantage of it. What's the unique kind of Mayo Clinic special sauce in that realm?

You know, it's a great question, and I think we have to understand that it's a partnership. So we're not doing it alone. We're doing it with tech companies. In fact, Google is one of the folks that we're one of the companies that we're working with. I think what what allows me to be distinguished here is it's a physician led organization. It's a values driven organization. And it understands medicine deeply. And I think that's the differentiating proposition. If you think about how Mayo is organized, it's organized as specialists who work together in teams. So you have this multi-specialty practice focused strictly on the patient, all salaried, right? So we're not getting paid to do extra procedures or anything like we're getting paid to get the answer. And you take that philosophy into how you want to transform health care. And I think you have a marked advantage over if you're coming from it and trying to learn health care. And I think we've seen over time many of the health care companies are coming in. They're trying to learn health care. I think most of them, you would agree, have struggled with that. Health care is a very difficult area. There's regulatory overlays, there's reimbursement overlays. It's just a very challenging area. I think it requires sophisticated clinical insight to get. There. But make no mistake, and we are harboring no illusions. We need partners to do it. We are not doing it alone. We are doing it with sophisticated technology companies and with other academic medical partners.

You know, it's a great question, and I think we have to understand that it's a partnership. So we're not doing it alone. We're doing it with tech companies. In fact, Google is one of the folks that we're one of the companies that we're working with. I think what what allows me to be distinguished here is it's a physician led organization. It's a values driven organization. And it understands medicine deeply. And I think that's the differentiating proposition. If you think about how Mayo is organized, it's organized as specialists who work together in teams. So you have this multi-specialty practice focused strictly on the patient, all salaried, right? So we're not getting paid to do extra procedures or anything like we're getting paid to get the answer. And you take that philosophy into how you want to transform health care. And I think you have a marked advantage over if you're coming from it and trying to learn health care. And I think we've seen over time many of the health care companies are coming in. They're trying to learn health care. I think most of them, you would agree, have struggled with that. Health care is a very difficult area. There's regulatory overlays, there's reimbursement overlays. It's just a very challenging area. I think it requires sophisticated clinical insight to get. There. But make no mistake, and we are harboring no illusions. We need partners to do it. We are not doing it alone. We are doing it with sophisticated technology companies and with other academic medical partners.

So that's a good segway, Jim, to put to this question. So what have you found about the challenges in running a platform business versus running a hospital or even a series of hospitals? Tell us about the transition. Tell us about some of the operating challenges that you and the cultural challenges you're willing to share of of changing the processes, the procedures, the expertise, and even the hearts and minds of of going from being a location based delivery of care business to apply for business.

So that's a good segway, Jim, to put to this question. So what have you found about the challenges in running a platform business versus running a hospital or even a series of hospitals? Tell us about the transition. Tell us about some of the operating challenges that you and the cultural challenges you're willing to share of of changing the processes, the procedures, the expertise, and even the hearts and minds of of going from being a location based delivery of care business to apply for business.

Yeah. And in some ways, really, they're one in the same. We don't look at it as necessarily the platforms different from Mayo. It is Mayo Clinic is what's helping to power Mayo Clinic. It's what's helping to continue this transformation. But certainly as you bringing in folks who understand products and services and who have a mentality more from a startup than from a clinical perspective, there have been some cultural changes. There's a need to meld that energy and that focus and that drive to move quickly with the true clinical knowledge and to bring along the folks within the practice. So it's been an interesting process so far. I think it's one that's working well because if you think about the the best of both worlds, having that entrepreneurial spirit with some ability to move quickly with the clinical side, that is not going to do something that's going to harm a patient but is wanting to move forward and understands it needs to take some risks to move the needle. And that's a really powerful combination when you think about it. We definitely need different talent than what we've currently had, and then we have to figure out how that talent continues to kind of transform and morph and meld as we bring together and continue to have the clinical practice. Think about the platform way of thinking. It's a very different model than maybe what we've had in the past. Now, that being said, we still hire amazing clinicians, and just many of our caregivers now think in terms of platform then maybe just the conventional way of thinking. And it's a fascinating place to be because with no one has the roadmap, we're all kind of running down that road together. And I think people are really interested in it and really energized by it.

Yeah. And in some ways, really, they're one in the same. We don't look at it as necessarily the platforms different from Mayo. It is Mayo Clinic is what's helping to power Mayo Clinic. It's what's helping to continue this transformation. But certainly as you bringing in folks who understand products and services and who have a mentality more from a startup than from a clinical perspective, there have been some cultural changes. There's a need to meld that energy and that focus and that drive to move quickly with the true clinical knowledge and to bring along the folks within the practice. So it's been an interesting process so far. I think it's one that's working well because if you think about the the best of both worlds, having that entrepreneurial spirit with some ability to move quickly with the clinical side, that is not going to do something that's going to harm a patient but is wanting to move forward and understands it needs to take some risks to move the needle. And that's a really powerful combination when you think about it. We definitely need different talent than what we've currently had, and then we have to figure out how that talent continues to kind of transform and morph and meld as we bring together and continue to have the clinical practice. Think about the platform way of thinking. It's a very different model than maybe what we've had in the past. Now, that being said, we still hire amazing clinicians, and just many of our caregivers now think in terms of platform then maybe just the conventional way of thinking. And it's a fascinating place to be because with no one has the roadmap, we're all kind of running down that road together. And I think people are really interested in it and really energized by it.

So this question might be even more interesting to your point that no one has. The answer is maybe more to ask you in three years. So maybe you'll come back and we'll do it again in three years. But let me ask now. I think it's been about three years since you've kind of started standing up the platform. If you could go back and clarify things or tell yourself three years ago, like what you've learned. Like, what's the thing you've learned about standing up and in this this foray into the platform business that you didn't know three years ago?

So this question might be even more interesting to your point that no one has. The answer is maybe more to ask you in three years. So maybe you'll come back and we'll do it again in three years. But let me ask now. I think it's been about three years since you've kind of started standing up the platform. If you could go back and clarify things or tell yourself three years ago, like what you've learned. Like, what's the thing you've learned about standing up and in this this foray into the platform business that you didn't know three years ago?

I don't know that we have a lot of regrets. So it's not it's not regrets. Can we always do something better? I think we could always do something better, there's no question. Part of the challenge, I think, is trying to figure out that balance when you're trying to bring in a new methodology or new way of thinking. How do you strike the right balance so that for the existing group, whatever you want to, you know, take it out of Mayo Now, whatever that group is that they see the value of coming along and supporting as opposed to what exactly is this? This looks like a foreign antibody. You know, the corporate immune system kind of comes up and that sort of thing. Fortunately for us, that's been pretty minimal. If there was any way that we could thinking about it, looking backwards on it, done a little bit better there to really help people understand the why and why this is important. I think it would would have been beneficial for us. I think people understand it in their heart. I think they understand it at some level. But it's different. It's a change. And, you know, change is always disruptive to people and could be a little threatening to people.

I don't know that we have a lot of regrets. So it's not it's not regrets. Can we always do something better? I think we could always do something better, there's no question. Part of the challenge, I think, is trying to figure out that balance when you're trying to bring in a new methodology or new way of thinking. How do you strike the right balance so that for the existing group, whatever you want to, you know, take it out of Mayo Now, whatever that group is that they see the value of coming along and supporting as opposed to what exactly is this? This looks like a foreign antibody. You know, the corporate immune system kind of comes up and that sort of thing. Fortunately for us, that's been pretty minimal. If there was any way that we could thinking about it, looking backwards on it, done a little bit better there to really help people understand the why and why this is important. I think it would would have been beneficial for us. I think people understand it in their heart. I think they understand it at some level. But it's different. It's a change. And, you know, change is always disruptive to people and could be a little threatening to people.

Good. So tell me about then just some of the issues, some of the challenges, what you've learned in three years. Tell me about some of the early successes you're really excited about.

Good. So tell me about then just some of the issues, some of the challenges, what you've learned in three years. Tell me about some of the early successes you're really excited about.

Well, medically, home has been wonderful. So that's that's one coming out of our platform efforts. And prior to the pandemic, we invested in this company and the company really focused on how do you take care of folks outside of the hospital, maybe reduce their length of stay, maybe they don't come even to begin with. And how do you do it in a way where you're focused on serious and complex conditions? So there's a lot of folks that are talking about how you maybe do primary care, which is incredibly important. But our focus was always kind of where where we live, which is a serious and complex, much more challenging than the pandemic hit. And it became very clear that this type of capability was going to be absolutely critical. So we kind. Double down investment. Their support of this approach. We partnered them with Kaiser Permanente. They came in many, many other partners across the supply chain, came in, really build more of a platform type approach in remote, know the remote care for patients. And what I like about it is the patients love it. You know as well as I do that I'd rather be at home. I'd rather not have to come somewhere. And then if I do have to come somewhere, I don't have to stay there for weeks on end or my family has to visit for weeks on end. This is a nice approach. This is an effective approach, one that patients really, really like. So we're very excited about that. There's still many mountains we're going to have to climb to understand the regulatory picture, particularly if the federal emergency ends. And what does that mean? But so far, so good. It's on a great path and it's given us a lot of insights. You know, as an example, if I'm a paramedic, you know, my job is to come to you, stabilize you and get you to the hospital as quickly as I can. Well, that may not be the role we need. If you have folks that are going to be staying at home right now, the role is how do I make a determination whether you should go to the hospital in the first place and or kind of stabilize you to the level where you don't need to go to the hospital. So it's it's thinking about that sort of thing. It's fascinating. But it's also moving the needle on health care. It's transforming health care. And that's very exciting to us. I think the collaboration we have going with France has been wonderful. And with Google, you know, these are two phenomenal groups and really trying to make data effectively available. How do you democratize data? How do you allow people to truly gain insights so that when you think about, you know, the Jimmy Carter story, how can you accelerate that even faster? You know, how can you apply a AI machine learning different data sets to to go for it? Another aspect of what we're doing on the platform is validate and validates really about making sure that the algorithm does what it says it's going to do and that there's not bias. And if there are, we're sussing that out. And so it's a it's really an effective tool because all these algorithms are coming out online and no one really knows do they do what they say they do.

Well, medically, home has been wonderful. So that's that's one coming out of our platform efforts. And prior to the pandemic, we invested in this company and the company really focused on how do you take care of folks outside of the hospital, maybe reduce their length of stay, maybe they don't come even to begin with. And how do you do it in a way where you're focused on serious and complex conditions? So there's a lot of folks that are talking about how you maybe do primary care, which is incredibly important. But our focus was always kind of where where we live, which is a serious and complex, much more challenging than the pandemic hit. And it became very clear that this type of capability was going to be absolutely critical. So we kind. Double down investment. Their support of this approach. We partnered them with Kaiser Permanente. They came in many, many other partners across the supply chain, came in, really build more of a platform type approach in remote, know the remote care for patients. And what I like about it is the patients love it. You know as well as I do that I'd rather be at home. I'd rather not have to come somewhere. And then if I do have to come somewhere, I don't have to stay there for weeks on end or my family has to visit for weeks on end. This is a nice approach. This is an effective approach, one that patients really, really like. So we're very excited about that. There's still many mountains we're going to have to climb to understand the regulatory picture, particularly if the federal emergency ends. And what does that mean? But so far, so good. It's on a great path and it's given us a lot of insights. You know, as an example, if I'm a paramedic, you know, my job is to come to you, stabilize you and get you to the hospital as quickly as I can. Well, that may not be the role we need. If you have folks that are going to be staying at home right now, the role is how do I make a determination whether you should go to the hospital in the first place and or kind of stabilize you to the level where you don't need to go to the hospital. So it's it's thinking about that sort of thing. It's fascinating. But it's also moving the needle on health care. It's transforming health care. And that's very exciting to us. I think the collaboration we have going with France has been wonderful. And with Google, you know, these are two phenomenal groups and really trying to make data effectively available. How do you democratize data? How do you allow people to truly gain insights so that when you think about, you know, the Jimmy Carter story, how can you accelerate that even faster? You know, how can you apply a AI machine learning different data sets to to go for it? Another aspect of what we're doing on the platform is validate and validates really about making sure that the algorithm does what it says it's going to do and that there's not bias. And if there are, we're sussing that out. And so it's a it's really an effective tool because all these algorithms are coming out online and no one really knows do they do what they say they do.

So looking forward three years from now, what do you think we're going to see and hear kind of come out and emerge from from the Mayo Clinic based on these investments? What's your crystal ball tell you?

So looking forward three years from now, what do you think we're going to see and hear kind of come out and emerge from from the Mayo Clinic based on these investments? What's your crystal ball tell you?

It's something we have to continuously be thinking about. I think care at home will be a much more you know, we're still in our early stages of care at home, particularly serious and complex. I think that's going to be a much more evolved and effective area. I think you're going to see an explosion of algorithms that could be used that would be validated and through the regulatory process for approval, for diagnostic purposes and for monitoring purposes. I'm hopeful that you're going to see the continued therapeutic development acceleration. We are at the forefront of amazing things. I mean, if you think of some of the conditions that even five years ago were a death sentence, that today are treatable. Who knows? Maybe next year they're curable. We just have to continue to push forward on the innovation and really embrace the use of all these tools that are available to us. It's overwhelming for people sometimes. I think that's where I hope our platform can help bring some clarity and some sanity. But I do think that as as that continues to occur, where more and more algorithms become available or more clinical processes are improved, more and more cures are available or more data is available. I think the sky's the limit. I don't think we've seen the ceiling yet. I really don't.

It's something we have to continuously be thinking about. I think care at home will be a much more you know, we're still in our early stages of care at home, particularly serious and complex. I think that's going to be a much more evolved and effective area. I think you're going to see an explosion of algorithms that could be used that would be validated and through the regulatory process for approval, for diagnostic purposes and for monitoring purposes. I'm hopeful that you're going to see the continued therapeutic development acceleration. We are at the forefront of amazing things. I mean, if you think of some of the conditions that even five years ago were a death sentence, that today are treatable. Who knows? Maybe next year they're curable. We just have to continue to push forward on the innovation and really embrace the use of all these tools that are available to us. It's overwhelming for people sometimes. I think that's where I hope our platform can help bring some clarity and some sanity. But I do think that as as that continues to occur, where more and more algorithms become available or more clinical processes are improved, more and more cures are available or more data is available. I think the sky's the limit. I don't think we've seen the ceiling yet. I really don't.

Well, it's exciting and we will certainly look forward to watching it. If you want to go micro. I'm just one question with you based on where we've been, but it's specifically tied to an issue that's really resonant of late, particularly in my market in Chicago, where another major health system just announced a pretty significant data breach. I think the good news is if I reflect on when we first start hearing about data breaches, I think about the one two target six, seven years ago, which was the lead story in the New York Times for day after day after day, I think we're all getting more accustomed and maybe less freaked out by data breaches than we were five or seven years ago. But yet still, I'm sure there's a number of people that have and are very concerned. Dr. Halamka has spoken of the data under glass model. I wanted you to just reflect on and kind of explain the Mayo Clinic approach for balancing the tension between privacy and access to data and all the magic, you know, the importance of the former, but the magic that can come with the latter.

Well, it's exciting and we will certainly look forward to watching it. If you want to go micro. I'm just one question with you based on where we've been, but it's specifically tied to an issue that's really resonant of late, particularly in my market in Chicago, where another major health system just announced a pretty significant data breach. I think the good news is if I reflect on when we first start hearing about data breaches, I think about the one two target six, seven years ago, which was the lead story in the New York Times for day after day after day, I think we're all getting more accustomed and maybe less freaked out by data breaches than we were five or seven years ago. But yet still, I'm sure there's a number of people that have and are very concerned. Dr. Halamka has spoken of the data under glass model. I wanted you to just reflect on and kind of explain the Mayo Clinic approach for balancing the tension between privacy and access to data and all the magic, you know, the importance of the former, but the magic that can come with the latter.

Yeah. So when it's all said no, we understand that absolutely nothing is guaranteed or 100% secure. But the approach that we took was a federated data model, essentially. So you what are your data sources? Let's say it's male. Data stays with us. So in de-identified. We didn't have an ability in a way to essentially query insights against that de-identified data in a way that's meaningful. So the data never leaves Mayo. People are not getting access to it, and they still have a way to meaningfully query it. In our mind, that's pretty secure. We feel very comfortable with it. We're continuously monitoring that. We're testing it against independent third parties who take a look and make sure from their perspective still de-identified. But we're doing everything we can from an encryption standpoint. We're working with other companies. One called Triple Blind has a fascinating encryption approach. So to allow higher levels of security, but also functionality because making the data available for insights isn't really going to work. If you have to go through 15 layers before you can get to an insight. So we're trying to figure out a way to keep it absolutely secure at the same time, make it usable. And so far, I think we're we're getting down that road effectively. It's been very good. Now, the question is, as quantum computing starts to bite, we're hearing that no encryption will necessarily work for anybody. It'll be a bigger problem than just what we're dealing with. So we are continuously thinking about the future and a part that's where groups like Triple Blind will help us. Inference hires the best A.I. scientists out of Harvard and MIT and everywhere else. Triple blind has amazing talent in their company, etc. So it gets back to the point I said earlier, We can't just do it alone. We won't do it alone. We have to do it with partners who are constantly looking for those who can help us make sure we're at the cutting edge from a technological standpoint.

Yeah. So when it's all said no, we understand that absolutely nothing is guaranteed or 100% secure. But the approach that we took was a federated data model, essentially. So you what are your data sources? Let's say it's male. Data stays with us. So in de-identified. We didn't have an ability in a way to essentially query insights against that de-identified data in a way that's meaningful. So the data never leaves Mayo. People are not getting access to it, and they still have a way to meaningfully query it. In our mind, that's pretty secure. We feel very comfortable with it. We're continuously monitoring that. We're testing it against independent third parties who take a look and make sure from their perspective still de-identified. But we're doing everything we can from an encryption standpoint. We're working with other companies. One called Triple Blind has a fascinating encryption approach. So to allow higher levels of security, but also functionality because making the data available for insights isn't really going to work. If you have to go through 15 layers before you can get to an insight. So we're trying to figure out a way to keep it absolutely secure at the same time, make it usable. And so far, I think we're we're getting down that road effectively. It's been very good. Now, the question is, as quantum computing starts to bite, we're hearing that no encryption will necessarily work for anybody. It'll be a bigger problem than just what we're dealing with. So we are continuously thinking about the future and a part that's where groups like Triple Blind will help us. Inference hires the best A.I. scientists out of Harvard and MIT and everywhere else. Triple blind has amazing talent in their company, etc. So it gets back to the point I said earlier, We can't just do it alone. We won't do it alone. We have to do it with partners who are constantly looking for those who can help us make sure we're at the cutting edge from a technological standpoint.

I'm going to leave it there. Jim Rogers, Chief visit Development officer and interim chief strategy officer of the Mayo Clinic, has been with us. Jim, thank you for your time.

I'm going to leave it there. Jim Rogers, Chief visit Development officer and interim chief strategy officer of the Mayo Clinic, has been with us. Jim, thank you for your time.

I really appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

I really appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. Thank you.

And thanks for listening to Prophets Healthcare Transformers Podcast. This podcast is produced by Gerard Johnson and his wonderful team at Shift Forward Health. And a big thank you to our hosts, Priya NASIR, Lindsay Moseby, Paul Shrimp and Jeff Gorgie. If you like today's episode, you can find more great content like this at perfect com slash thinking. I'm Anna Kuno, the senior editor of this podcast. Thank you for listening to.

And thanks for listening to Prophets Healthcare Transformers Podcast. This podcast is produced by Gerard Johnson and his wonderful team at Shift Forward Health. And a big thank you to our hosts, Priya NASIR, Lindsay Moseby, Paul Shrimp and Jeff Gorgie. If you like today's episode, you can find more great content like this at perfect com slash thinking. I'm Anna Kuno, the senior editor of this podcast. Thank you for listening to.