The Smokin' Pastrami Episode

Published Dec 10, 2020, 7:10 PM

A treatment including curing, smoking, and seasoning turns tough beef brisket into this delectable deli meat. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and science behind pastrami.

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Hello, and welcome to Savor production of My Heart Radio. I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about pastrami. Another Lauren fogle Bam suggestion. Where did this one come from? This one is because I realized that as we are publishing this episode, Um, Honakkah is starting tomorrow night, Thursday night, the Little Bible eleventh. Does that sound correct? I don't know what to sure, let's go with that, um and uh. Although pastrami is not a Hanukkah food in particular, usually a lot of Hanukah meals involved cheese, and so if you're keeping kosher, you wouldn't be eating cheese and meat in the same meal. But that being said, I went on like a whole twenty minute like tab opening about Latka's before I realized that we've already done an episode about Latka's. Yeah, it happens more and more frequently these Yeah. I don't know if it's if it's like us or just like a thing that happens in podcasting. I think it's probably a combination. I think that's very kind of you. I try to be kind Um. Well, in either case, I do love love love pastrami. Yeah, I don't have much serious um. When I went on my burger tour of Atlanta, I think it was twenty twelve, one of my favors was the pastrami burger at the General Mirror. I've done the whole cat still a coateestent thing in NYC was very stressful experience I have as well. Heart agree. Yeah. The most I remember is why it was delicious, but it was a ton I remember being like, like, how do you want you have to say like a pound, like by the pound or whatever, and I like panicked, and I just said that the person in front of me said, and it was the whole thing. It was delicious. And then I've done Langer's in l a Um and recently when I was in Montreal, which I very well could have gotten trapped in listeners because it was right before the pandemic. Really, I had Montreal smoked meats, which reminded me of astronomy. I know they're not the same thing, please go right in. I know, but it did remind me. Yeah, yeah, I um yeah. Half of my family being Jewish, I'm more much more culturally Jewish. We weren't really practicing um, when I was a kid. But but I did get exposed to a lot of these culturally Jewish foods. My family also being from like the New York New Jersey area, Um, they're very familiar with that deli culture, and so so I did have a lot of I've always I'm usually a corn beef girl. If I'm if, I'm gonna go to a deli and get a sandwhich it's usually going to be corn beef. Not sure why. I think it's just a little bit more simple, and for some reason at that point that's what I'm into. Um. But oh man, a good rommy is so good, so good, got that spice to it, and it's all man, it's wonderful. Um uh, we'll get into that in a minute. There's science reasons why. Um but uh but yeah, yeah, so I don't know. I wanted to. I wanted to do a Jewish food for for this hour near Hanukah season, and one of these days I'll be better at life and I'll remember when actual high holy days are coming up, and I'll try to feature some appropriate foods for those. Also, we are almost in time for National Strawmy Day, which is January. Oh, we're like only a month off. Yeah, only a month off. That's pretty good for us. UM. And speaking of corn beef, we have done an episode on that, but also we have a very hilarious video in my opinion of that time we failed to open the corn beef tin. Um. That resulted in one of my very favorite still shots of us where I'm like laughing and You're staring at the camera holding a knife. That's one of my favorite things we've ever done. It took a for twelve minutes open that can listeners. It exists online somewhere. I think it's all our social media. Yeah, tinned corned beef is not the type of corn beef sandwich meat that I'm talking about here by the way. UM, But yeah, that was our first time attempting to open that type of tin. It's us. It wanted to stay closed more than it wanted us to open it. So it was we prevailed in the end. But our social media manager was like visibly laughing at us. She was she was, she was like she was like shaking with suppressed. After the entire time for like twelve twelve it was a lot. Yeah, yeah, it was anyway, that does exist and it's quite funny. Uh. And speaking of I did want to include my Seinfeld quote for the episode. Yes, it's been a minute, so uh. I find the stram to be the most sensual of all the salted cured meats. And this was George's one of George's girlfriends and they had a strange love affair where they would like eat meat while right. Oh I remember that one. Yeah, yeah, it was an interesting you know whatever people are into. I'm sorry, I didn't mean anyone's yum, y'all do y'all do you um, I'll do you listeners. But okay, let it move on from that and let's answer our question for stram. What is it? Well, Pastrami is a smoky, tender, spiced beef bacon. Um. It's a it's a spicy, smoky corned beef. It's a it's a thin cut jerky that melts in your mouth. All of that sounds delicious, So I'm on board. I'm on board. Uh. Pastrami is made by by taking a cut of beef brisket um and salt curing it, then then rubbing it with a dry spice blend, then smoking it low and slow, um, and often giving it a final boil and or steam before it's sliced and served usually warm, often on a sandwich, often rye and mustard sandwich. UM. And it can also be part of a hotter cold plate though, like a meat and three or charcouterie something like that if you really want to um. But but this whole process of making it, every single bit of that process adds to the final texture and the flavor of the meat. Um and uh and so like I said that the cut of meat used to make pastrami is is beef brisket, which is the cut that's taken from the lower chest of cattle like um like like if you if you picture, if you picture yourself kind of standing on all fours, it's where your collar bone would be, but they don't have a collar bone instead they have this muscle. So so it's this really dense and tough cut of meat with a lot of protein and there's a lot of flavor to it, but also a lot of connective tissue because it's part of that support structure that cattle used to like stand and move around. And depending on how you define brisket, because it is different in different cultures. UM, the cut does include the like kind of fatty belly or naval meat or um the flat and that's what's most prized for pastrami because because depending on how much fat you leave on there, it can really help the meat stay moist during this kind of long, long, um multi tiered cooking process. So, uh, let's start. Let's start at the beginning, go through what everything does here um, because because I feel like that really helps you get an idea if you've if you don't understand the word pastrami and you don't have Google and you need me to explain it to you, Here's how the cooking process impacts it. So, so that first part is the curing um, and that can be a wet brine or a dry brine. Either way. It involves applying salt, sugar, and usually some seasonings like a garlic, black pepper, coriander, allspice, and bay leaves to the raw meat and then letting it hang out in the fridge for a few days and the salt in there will will loosen up the protein fibers in the meat. Like part of what can make cooked meat dry is that the heat makes the fibers tighten up um and squeeze out moisture during cooking. Um. So applying that salt and thus help keeping them loose helps keep the meat more juicy. Um. A wet brine also adds water into the meat for for extra moisture. A dry brine will create a slightly less juicy but more flavorful meat because you're you know, you're not adding water, but also you know, like you're not adding water, so yeah, during this phase, you can also add sodium nitrite to the mix. And and this is a preservative that makes cured meats turn sort of pink, you know that, like pink of of ham or something. Yeah. Um, and also helps stabilize the fats and also prevents the growth of the bacteria that cause botulis um. So at least one of those things has been historically really important. And sodium nitrate is in fact a substitute for this traditional ingredient in many cured meats from the days before refrigeration. Today it's not strictly necessary, but some folks use it. They like the they like the color, they like the flavor. But uh yeah, anyway, so you got your cured beef. Next you apply a further spice rub, probably some the same stuff that you put in your brine um. Ground black pepper and coriander and granulated garlic are all common, and this is going to char up during the next step, which is smoking um meaning ideally that you apply the indirect heat of smoldering wood chips to this hunk of meat for at least a few hours UM. And you know you want to do this because you're you're looking to break down that tough connective tissue UM, which lucky for us, is made of collagen, which is is tough and stringy at normal body temperatures, but gelatinizes starting around a hundred and fifty four degrees fahrenheit, which is about sixty seven point eight celsius, meaning it turns from this tough stuff into a melt in your mouth gel um. And it doesn't go like like flip switch all all at once, So so the longer smoking times help gelatinize more of it. After that's done, you're going to have a slightly dried out kind of well crusted things so so so a final boil and or steam will put a little bit of extra moisture back into that dried down meat, making it easier and cleaner to to to slice and The result of all of this will be a slice of meat with a with a spicy, savory, blackened crust and a tender, milty, great pink interior with lots of smoke and savory flavors to it. I can hear the craving in your voice, so much right air of sadness that you're not eating that, right, y'all. I I firmly believe in not eating on air. But I if I had a sandwich next to me, I would be like, screw you, guys, I'm eating the sandwich. The past is what finally got you to that rule. I can't be polite around a good PASTRAMI I'm sorry, you know. That's another thing about pastram is. Often eating the sandwich is a very messy affair. So it can be. It really can be, because it can be. They're often piled quite high. And there is in fact, a Vice article that I didn't read but I did click on that says, actually New York style deli sandwiches are too damn huge, So thanks for that info coming out strong, all right, Mice has an opinion. Weird um. I don't know where all that shade came from. I mean, I know exactly where it came from. But anyway, like I said, I can't be pulled around pastrami. Um. So anyways, all all of this treatment of this beef to turn it into pastrami is super useful for a couple of reasons. Um. Well, I guess like three reasons. Because first, like like seasoning is nice, like we like that sometimes. Um. But but okay, so that's for a second. Um, it helps preserve the meat, keeping it edible for longer by killing off any microbes that might be living in or on the meat. Salt and sugar are both desiccants, meaning they dry stuff out. Microbes generally need water or moisture to live. Um, the heat from the smoking process and some of the chemical compounds in the smoke itself also helped kill off microbes. And uh and and then third, it really helps make these these tougher and thus typically cheaper cuts of meat more tender and delicious. M hm hm. Well now that we know it's delicious, so what do we know about the nutrition? Uh? Well, you know, depending on the exact kind of meat that's used. You know, meat is a natural product, it's all different. Um. And exactly how much fat is left on it um. Pistram tends to be a fairly lean deli meat um to spite the fatty mouth feel because because a lot of that mouth feel comes from the gelatin not from actual fat um, it often does contain a lot of sodium um. So if sodium is something that you're watching out for, watch out for that um. It's got a really good punch of protein. I mean, you know, eat a vegetable like we always say, I always say, eat a vegetable that can be that can be a pickle. I will allow you that a good deli pickle is a vegetable for this one and vilitious alongside past Yes, I didn't find much in though I have numbers. I did find one article right before this about the number of bacteria based on the length of days. Oh yeah, I think I saw that one. Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff about about like smoke levels the yeah. Yeah, Because weren't exactly the numbers I was looking for, I didn't know. I did learn there's an annual pastrami fest well in Warsaw, Polard, which sounds amazing. Oh my gosh, I would like to go to there. I absolutely would too. And if any listeners have been to their Please let us know what it's all about. Yeah, gosh, yeah, I okay, because right now I can only dream. Yes, I believe one day that dream won't be a reality. But in the meantime, we must look back to the past. Yes, yes, we do have some history for you. But first we've got a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, So humanity. We've been smoking meat for like a long time. Yeah, like a pretty long time. Yeah uh, And that probably in itself could be a whole separate episode, so let's just leave it a long time for now. Um. Some sources trace Pastramise history specifically to an innovation of the thirteenth century Ottoman Turks called past therma, meaning to press a meat that usually was mutton or beef or goat um that was dried and salt caured for preservation, and then spice. The story goes, it was also tenderized by placing it in saddle bags while riders rode on their horses, which was also the story about hide Hamburger In a recent yeah yeah. Pasturma traveled along the spice roots up to Europe, by at least eighteen fifties, and Eastern Europe and particularly Romania really embraced it. Where the favored meat may have been goose, but they made it with all kinds of meats and mainly beef. It seems that that goose thing is from one source, So you know mystery's history UM and Edward T. At Blakely's eight work a handy dictionary of commercial information of the title UM. He described the product as quote ox sheep are goats flesh salted with garlic and spices and dried in the sun for winter food. Okay, pinter food, but okay. A lot of histories of the Stramy start in nineteenth century America a creation of newly arriving Romanian immigrants. Now, some versions of the story put it um arriving at New York City first, are being this thing that was created in New York City first, while others put it as arriving with Czech and German butchers who settled in Texas, which was sort of a maybe people who like barbecue brisket Texas really wanted this story to be UM and then those butchers would have made their way to New York City However, it seems that these smoked meats first took hold in North American places like New York, um like Montreal, like Chicago, where meat packing companies made it nationwide. For some context, Germans made up the majority of immigran surviving in the US up until around the eighteen seventies. Newspapers in New York for German grocers featuring pickles and cheeses and meats were often labeled under delicatessen. At the time, these were fairly fancy establishments known particularly for meats. A decade later, more immigrants from Romania began arriving. It's estimated that up to seventy five thousand Jewish Romanians arrived in New York between eighteen eighty one to nineteen fourteen, and many of them opened up delicatessins of their own, with added kosher items and then, of course, refrigeration when refrigeration came along. Because stromy makers could use a weaker salt Brian, meaning the final product was softer um. While the origins of the name remain unclear, some suspect it was around this time that the Romanian word but strama morphed into Stromi because it rhymed with salami shrug emoji. I don't know about that, but I mean, I it makes sense to me. But also it's like one of those things where do I just want it to make sense that, you know what, I'm sort of cute You're just like a yeah, yeah, you know, either way it could be Um. Of note, no one could settle on a spelling or like even a precise name for for Strami until the twentieth century, adding to all of this confusion always blows my mind when that happens. I remember Portobello was the same, right, yes, and you start to feel like it's one of those barren stain things where you're just like, oh, no, I like, like, which reality are we living in? That's right? Are we in the port of Bella? Are the Portobello reality? Deep thoughts on this show. References to Pisturma in the US don't appear until the eighteen nineties, when makers of the stuff direct from Eastern Europe arrived in the country, or written references specifically um. The first known written instance of a company selling past comes from and it sort of had to do with the Grizzly Murder. Okay, okay, alright, shure. You know, people people in the late nineties were like really taken with uh with news media about grizzly murders. So I guess this tracks. I have to say. It was a hard turn for me in our research. But um so, that year Adolph Louis Lutgert, a big name in the world of Chicago sausage, was convicted of murdering his wife, destroying the evidence and her body and a sausage fat filled with live However, not everything was destroyed. Authorities found a tooth, some rings engraved with the initials of Louisa lit Girt, his wife, and some steel corsets and yes, this story and through all the United States, it was all over. It was this like source of dark fascination. And people on the sausage biz, you know, they didn't like it, Lauren, Oh weird, that's very strange. I can't imagine why. Yeah. Yeah. Take this quote from the State Journal. The sausage makers declare that when the first alleged discovery of the residuum of Mrs Luker was made public, the appetite for sausage fell off to an extent that nearly bankrupted them. The butchers their customers, they assert, would make purchases of pastrama of pepper related beef, but would shake their heads darkly when sausage was mentioned, a dark catching like, mm, You're not going to fool me with that, And some speculate that to make up for the loss of sausage sales, butchers may have turned in part to pastrami. Uh yeah, I definitely wasn't expecting this in the pastrami episode. But okay, what what company really made strammy take off? Who can we point to? Of course there is debate, of course, so one contender is Cats. Yes, this the famous New York City Delhi featured in when Harry Met Sally, among other things. UM most sources put them opening, and while there are no clear records of when they started selling pastrami, it was probably pretty early on. It is probably pretty close to opening. Um. Lithuanian immigrant Susserman Volks butcher shop in New York City also lays claim to being the first to do this. Um to really takes me to the next level. As pastrami legend goes, a Romanian friend of Volks, preparing for a visit to his home country, offered up his pastrami recipe if Volk would store his trunk while he was away, which sweet deal. By the way, I don't write that settles out? Yeah, Like come on, like that's a that Like a recipe is a very important thing. And like, I mean a trunk, isn't that? Like how big of a trunk was this? Wasn't it was there knocking from the inside? Was the trunk conted? Like what's going on with this trunk? Anyway? Good good questions, good insight is always we need to know more about that trunk. But in the meantime, this recipe was a really huge success, such a success that um Vulk expanded, by some accounts, opening the first New York Delhi, as his customers would frequently ask for a slice of astronomy on bread. However, surprise, surprise, historical records don't really back up either of these stories, especially like timing wise, the details are sort of there, but the timing is a little exaggerable earlier. Yeah in either are neither case. Though. It was during this time that stramy was going mainstream across the country, thanks some part to industrialization and the establishment of rail lines across the country. Grocery in New Mexico ran an ad for delicacies received eved that included quote smoked roulotte, smoked breast, knock worse past roma, goose liver sausage in and a making Georgia grocery and ad for quote smoked salmon, hard slamy, smoked breast past roma, bologna. That same year, stramy no longer referred to an air dried products in these particular cases, but a pickled or brind one. And to add to the confusion, many meats were prepared this way that were prepared this way, we're called, um, some form of pastrami. Like it no joke. They were like twenty words people were using for tramy at this time, and it could have meant a lot of different things. Um, it wasn't until the nineteen twenties so that the New York City Delhi became this almost symbol of Americans and Jewish Americans and specific um they became these places of solidarity and gathering. Yeah. Yeah, for for a lot of Jewish Americans. I think that, um, these like non secular places of gathering were really important because like maybe they weren't religious, but you know, but they still wanted to have this shared culture and um and yeah, Deli's were were there for that thing. Deli's were also a big part of New York City theater culture around this time and for the next few decades and still to today. Um uh you know, these they were becoming. Deli's were becoming these like approachably middle class places that still had this this adjacency um and and this um kind of historical record of being fancy. Um. So oh gosh. There's a comedian who said, uh, something to the extent of I'm so sorry. I don't have the quote right in front of me, but he said, uh, if you got an ulcer from the food here, it would be wearing a tuxedo. I love it. Yeah, a lot of delis. Do you have the you know, the walls of celebrities that have been there? Yeah, yeah, which is very I find a label speaking of yeah, speaking of New York City's Carnegie Deli opened in ninety seven and it's closed now. But I was I've been there too. I don't think I ever made it to that one, or if I did, I it was when I was younger, maybe like eleven or something. If it was still open then Um, but it was the one featured in Annie Hall. Back in UM, Uh, Woody Allen's character UM goes there with I haven't seen it. I assume it's it's it's Annie Hall. It's it's the Diane Keaton character. Um. But but but he goes and he's taken aback a back when when she orders a pastrami on white bread with mayo. Oh no, well the mayo, like I don't know about the mayo is out for me. I mean I do now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, that kind of sounds delicious, but it also doesn't sound like a pastrami sandwich. It sounds like something different anyway, Well anyway, UM. Further further immigration of Jewish American populations throughout other parts of the United States brought some of these New York style delis to UM, further out to to Los Angeles and more into Miami and in the South. UM in the nineteen forties and in nineteen sixty two that the Dartel's debuted Hot Strummy and a year later climbed all the way up to number eleven on American pop charts. And I'm not gonna lie I have not heard this song I did. I didn't know it existed, but it came up in my STROMI research, so here you are. UM. And then when Harry met Sally came out in nine with a very famous scene in Cats and Cats and Deli um and was also featured in The Enchanted. I guess which I could google, but I would I'd rather the listeners let me know if I'm correct. I mean I read it in a couple of places. I haven't seen it, so I can't confirm. And I've learned with times even people you trust online are incorrect about these films. So you know, I you can't. You can't believe everything that you read on the internet or here in the podcast. I know it's weird. I know it's weird. Um. I have seen Enchanted, and I don't specifically remember that scene. I think you'd like it. It's super cute. I it's it's very self aware about what it is. A Dina Manziel, isn't it. It's it's it's it's adorable, Okay. I mean I think I would like it too, you know, I just somehow I've not seen it all these years. Maybe I can watching and confirm or deny this push dromy allegation. Yeah yeah, um, and I do have a YouTube video here of the dartel Is playing Hopstrami one day. Well you need to do that. The podcast on songs about food, oh yeah, oh man, we really do. Um, it doesn't it doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do. I'm looking at the lyrics right now and they don't seem to have a great a lot to do with the dramying it. I mean they do say like mashed potatoes. Yeah yeah yeah hops dram yeah yeah yeah, baby shake that thing. Oh gosh, wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Once again, I am by the turn this is taken. This is a twisty, topsy turvy episode. Murder sexual songs strong, A very risk a side field reference. I don't I don't really have I don't really have a lot um to wrap that up with. I thank you for the investigative journalism. Apparently no one can be polite around Pastrami. Um, there you go. That's what we have learned today. Uh, and that's what we have to say about. We do have some listener mail for you, but first we've got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Yes, thank you, we're back with I was trying so hard to remember the like sandwich noise for Scooby doo. Uh. Yeah, it's kind of like springy or sprawling. It's got like a yeah. But but then I try to come combine it with like zoix, and that's what happens. I don't know that I need to explain it any more than I think you've explained yourself plenty. Annie, Thank you, Thank you, Lauren. Uh. Speaking of I guess, Heidi wrote, I know there are many regional burger variations you could probably cover, but I just want to share my favorite burger variation from Minnesota, the Juicy Lucy. It is a burger, but instead of the cheese being the topping, the cheese is stuffed on the inside of the burger before it is cooked, so that when you bite into the burger you are met with molten, gooey, cheesy goodness so good. There was much debate and argument as to which Minneapolis bar invented the Juicy Lucy Matt's Bar versus the Five eight Club, and since then, many other bars and restaurants have followed suit with their own versions of the juicy Lucy on their menus, with different varieties of cheeses, toppings, et cetera. When travel is the thing again, if you ever find yourself in Minneapolis St. Paul, definitely find a way to indulge in a juicy lucy done, done and done. Yeah, no problem. M hmm. That sounds delicious. I've had it. I've definitely add burgers with cheese stuffed inside, and it's always fun. But I, as we said, a lot of people wrote in about will have its day, it will it will. I'm I'm trying to think. I don't think I've had a burger with cheese inside. I know I've had a hot dog with cheese inside for a while. For a while, my my family kept like accidentally buying hot dogs with cheese inside for like groilouts, and it was always this very like, again, well is there cheese inside the hot dog? I didn't know that was a thing. Nineties were confusing time. Oh that's the truth. This is right around. This is right around like ninety six probably, So if I gets a good idea, m hm um. Well, anyway, Rachel lived, I was listening to your ginger episode and you mentioned Google specificity and disasters. This story popped into my head and I felt the need to share. In college, I was visiting one of my friend's parents home along with the rest of our sweet mates. We were playing categories in their living room while my friend's mother was in the same room on the family computer. Oh No, I'm old. One of our friends had come up with an answer to the food category that the rest of us questioned, I will save you from similar disaster by not mentioning the specifics. Since she was right there on the internet machine, sweet old mom kindly looked it up for us. The first search result was from Urban Dictionary. It was not a food. She read it out loud to our whole group, and if I recall correctly, we allowed the friend who had come up with it to have the points despite having come up with a wild, extremely graphic and probably made up sex act instead of a food, because she had earned it by not dying of embarrassment and or laughter in the process. On the actual topic of ginger, pumpkin pie with ginger snap crust is a holiday must have in these parts. Speaking of not being able to be polite at oh gosh right, gosh, this very thing has happened to be more than once on this show. Yeah, it's a risk, it is, it is. And there are some things that cannot be unseen. Oh yeah, oh yeah, those Google disasters they get us all. Like we said, but I'm glad you've got a fun It sounds like a fun memory. Yeah yeah, and it sounds it sounds like. It sounds like the mom in question was down. It sounds like she was chill. So that yeah, that's that's that's the Really, as long as no one was terribly offended, I count that as an absolute win. And also yes to pumpkin find gender, snap crust, Oh yeah ah yes, too many cravings, A lot of got a confusing set of cravings going on right now. My body doesn't know what to do. Um. But that's also not uncommon, oh gosh yeah. Or just in daily life. I mean it doesn't have to be a show day. Yeah, it's just true time. M hmmm. I basically just want like a like a weird international buffet for every meal. Yeah yeah, and we've got, you know, a little peek behind the curtains. We've got a real mismash of topics coming up and I'm kind of researching them all at once, and I'm like, wow, this is a bizarre I don't know what to do with all of this. So you have that to look forward to. Yeah, yes, but in the meantime, thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If you would like to write to us, you can. Our email is hello at favorite pot dot com. We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Vegan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.

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