Get eighteen. Welcome back to the show. This is Roll with the Punches podcast where we do just that. We Roll with the Punches and today's guest, she knows all about it. She's back. It's Nicole Ladell. She was on very recently talking about just a small portion of her very big, very awesome life, and she's back. We're talking again about the raw, real and sometimes very messy journey that is growth and transformation from struggling to make ends meet to becoming a PhD candidate. Nicole's story is the ultimate blueprint for resilience and reinvention and realizing that it's actually never too late to back yourself. So if you're ready to have a chat about boundaries and self worth and playing the long game, then you're going to love this chat. I know I did. Nobody wants to go to court and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Nicole Liddell, Welcome back to the show. How are you?

Get eighteen. Welcome back to the show. This is Roll with the Punches podcast where we do just that. We Roll with the Punches and today's guest, she knows all about it. She's back. It's Nicole Ladell. She was on very recently talking about just a small portion of her very big, very awesome life, and she's back. We're talking again about the raw, real and sometimes very messy journey that is growth and transformation from struggling to make ends meet to becoming a PhD candidate. Nicole's story is the ultimate blueprint for resilience and reinvention and realizing that it's actually never too late to back yourself. So if you're ready to have a chat about boundaries and self worth and playing the long game, then you're going to love this chat. I know I did. Nobody wants to go to court and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Nicole Liddell, Welcome back to the show. How are you?

I'm good? I'm good. How are you?

I'm good? I'm good. How are you?

I'm fabulous? What do you want to tell the world that we've hung out irl since our first podcast? In real life?

I'm fabulous? What do you want to tell the world that we've hung out irl since our first podcast? In real life?

Oh we have, Yes, we did. This seems like such a long time ago now, yes it was. It was great down to Melbourne for work and squeezed in a walking and breakfast almost a thunderstorm, but we avoided where she's getting round. We did avoid that.

Oh we have, Yes, we did. This seems like such a long time ago now, yes it was. It was great down to Melbourne for work and squeezed in a walking and breakfast almost a thunderstorm, but we avoided where she's getting round. We did avoid that.

I was just thinking about friend like, friendships are funny. I met you and I and we clicked strow well I felt with click trade Ray and obviously you do too because you said I'm coming to Melbourn'd you want to hang out? And I was like, yeah, a new brand. But I was talking to another person I've been introduced to late last year through mutual contacts that were like you two have to meet and we've similarly really hit it off, and we were talking. She just got back from England and we were talking. She was saying how nice it was to just be around her old school friends and how just those old those friendships that there's something special about them. They've been there forever. And I don't know, been thinking about friendships lately, and how how many things in life we choose to we assume are just there actually need investment, like relationships, like friendships, like like resilience, like all these these standard things that are always in our world, but we don't realize actually that there's there's effort on our part too. Yeah, I hate them.

I was just thinking about friend like, friendships are funny. I met you and I and we clicked strow well I felt with click trade Ray and obviously you do too because you said I'm coming to Melbourn'd you want to hang out? And I was like, yeah, a new brand. But I was talking to another person I've been introduced to late last year through mutual contacts that were like you two have to meet and we've similarly really hit it off, and we were talking. She just got back from England and we were talking. She was saying how nice it was to just be around her old school friends and how just those old those friendships that there's something special about them. They've been there forever. And I don't know, been thinking about friendships lately, and how how many things in life we choose to we assume are just there actually need investment, like relationships, like friendships, like like resilience, like all these these standard things that are always in our world, but we don't realize actually that there's there's effort on our part too. Yeah, I hate them.

Yeah, and I'm I'm I consciously make the effort like I'm always you know, And I don't mind if I'm always the one to reach out to say, hey, let's catch up, because my time is limited. So you know, it's not everyone that I reach it. It's not everyone that you know what I mean.

Yeah, and I'm I'm I consciously make the effort like I'm always you know, And I don't mind if I'm always the one to reach out to say, hey, let's catch up, because my time is limited. So you know, it's not everyone that I reach it. It's not everyone that you know what I mean.

Like real special there is.

Like real special there is.

And I don't mean to sound wanking by saying my time is special, but we're all really busy and that we've got a lot of things on. So and I think the older you get, the more discerning you become about where you put your energy. So yeah, and for me, especially now that my kids have grown, they're younger doults, my friends and my family, So you know, friends are the family that you choose, and they're important. They're important, those relationships, the conversations that we have.

And I don't mean to sound wanking by saying my time is special, but we're all really busy and that we've got a lot of things on. So and I think the older you get, the more discerning you become about where you put your energy. So yeah, and for me, especially now that my kids have grown, they're younger doults, my friends and my family, So you know, friends are the family that you choose, and they're important. They're important, those relationships, the conversations that we have.

And you are you intentional about, especially when you have been through a process of change or personal growth? How intentional have you been at times? And are you ongoing about looking at who you are or who you aspire to be versus who you're spending your time with and consciously choosing.

And you are you intentional about, especially when you have been through a process of change or personal growth? How intentional have you been at times? And are you ongoing about looking at who you are or who you aspire to be versus who you're spending your time with and consciously choosing.

That a lot? Actually, And I think too, because especially when you change, people in your life will do one of two things. They'll either try and interact with you with an old version of you, or they'll come along for the ride and see the changes or see the differences and interact with an version. And I feel so suffocated by people who are still trying to interact with an old version of me. And it's not it's just yeah, I just we just grow and we change. And I guess it's values, Like I look for meaning and just about everything, and so there has to be some level of shared values and shared understanding of experiences. Otherwise what have you got to talk about?

That a lot? Actually, And I think too, because especially when you change, people in your life will do one of two things. They'll either try and interact with you with an old version of you, or they'll come along for the ride and see the changes or see the differences and interact with an version. And I feel so suffocated by people who are still trying to interact with an old version of me. And it's not it's just yeah, I just we just grow and we change. And I guess it's values, Like I look for meaning and just about everything, and so there has to be some level of shared values and shared understanding of experiences. Otherwise what have you got to talk about?

Yeah? Sometimes I look at who who am I around you? Not you specifically, but who do I become?

Yeah? Sometimes I look at who who am I around you? Not you specifically, but who do I become?

Sometimes?

Sometimes?

Yeah, sometimes I think friendships, it's not the other person, it's who you become around them. That might not be conducive to good, doing good or being good. That's not a bad person, that's not a bad friendship. But I'm I'm not I'm not my best version of me for some reason. Yeah, when I'm around that person.

Yeah, sometimes I think friendships, it's not the other person, it's who you become around them. That might not be conducive to good, doing good or being good. That's not a bad person, that's not a bad friendship. But I'm I'm not I'm not my best version of me for some reason. Yeah, when I'm around that person.

Yes one, And I now, I just I feel so And I think that's what I mean when I say I feel suffocated around some people, Like it's if I can't be me, if I can't show up and be my imperfect self with you, then I just I just I'm I'm done with pretending. I'm done with masking who I am. I'm done with you know, I just can't do it. So, yeah, it's my my friendship group is limited. But the quality is is you know, they're high coliber individuals as far as their integrity, their purpose, the way that they show up in the world and how yeah, just how they see me, how we see each other. Yeah.

Yes one, And I now, I just I feel so And I think that's what I mean when I say I feel suffocated around some people, Like it's if I can't be me, if I can't show up and be my imperfect self with you, then I just I just I'm I'm done with pretending. I'm done with masking who I am. I'm done with you know, I just can't do it. So, yeah, it's my my friendship group is limited. But the quality is is you know, they're high coliber individuals as far as their integrity, their purpose, the way that they show up in the world and how yeah, just how they see me, how we see each other. Yeah.

Now, after our last chap, as I wholeheartedly expected, I had so much beautiful feedback. You, your story, your journey, your insights resonated heavily with a lot of people like that. A lot of personal messages came through all people just going oh wow.

Now, after our last chap, as I wholeheartedly expected, I had so much beautiful feedback. You, your story, your journey, your insights resonated heavily with a lot of people like that. A lot of personal messages came through all people just going oh wow.

Oh wow, it's so nice to hear.

Oh wow, it's so nice to hear.

I remember who it was, but I don't know. Once one of my listeners said to me, I just like this sound weird, but I just want to hang out with her. She wanted to be around it. You know.

I remember who it was, but I don't know. Once one of my listeners said to me, I just like this sound weird, but I just want to hang out with her. She wanted to be around it. You know.

It's like yeah, yeah, And I.

It's like yeah, yeah, And I.

Was remember saying that, and I was that was before you were down in Melbourne. I was like, I'm going to be in a minute, yep, I'll channel you. But one massive part of your story that I've referenced a lot that we didn't even touch on, that incredibly empowering for people to hear is your journey into academia and where you started when that started, because it's incredible. So can you share a little bit about that with us today?

Was remember saying that, and I was that was before you were down in Melbourne. I was like, I'm going to be in a minute, yep, I'll channel you. But one massive part of your story that I've referenced a lot that we didn't even touch on, that incredibly empowering for people to hear is your journey into academia and where you started when that started, because it's incredible. So can you share a little bit about that with us today?

The story of the accidental academic, Which, yeah, I think that's a lot of people who have a similar I mean, I don't yeah, sometimes I don't think academia is on the top of the list for people, but yeah, I do consider myself the accidental academic. Yeah, So I don't know. I just I think we covered a little bit of this last time I grew up, you know, with the value. My family values were very much around gender roles, so I had never I was never raised to believe that I could do anything other than just being, you know, be a reception like go and be a receptionist or you know, like it was all just those I think. I worked in a My first job was in the bank, which my dad said, I'll get your job in a bank, and then it was like, you know, then you'll get married and your husband will take care of you. So I was never really and I did want to go to university when I was when I left school, but they we just never. When I brought it up, it was there was just this awkward silence of my parents were like no. And you know, my dad, I love him to death. He's We've had some big conversations about it now and he he can't. He says, I can't explain it. It's just that girls didn't do that stuff, and that was that was his limiting beliefs and that was how he saw the world. But so I never, I guess I never. It was never really on the cards for me. It was what other people did not me. And then you know I had I worked in Adamin all my life like just reception admin call centers, you know, that kind of job, which was fine, you know I you know, I had three kids, so there was maternity leave and all that sort of thing. And then yeah, I just went when life really kicked me in the dick, I just was like, something needs to change. And I had done a counseling diploma because I'd always had interest in personal development and human behavior. Yeah, so at forty three, I just went. I had a friend of mine who had finished a social work degree and I said, I wish I could do that or something like that, and she said, well, why don't you? And I said, oh, you know, I can't. How am I going to afford to study because I can't work full time If I'm studying, how can I put food on the table. My kids were still sort of preteen early teen sort of ages. And then I just went whatever. I spoke to another friend of mine and she said, well, why don't you do it? And I said, well, I haven't got the money because you have to pay I can't remember. I think it was seventy dollars or something back then to pay the q TAC application fee. And I didn't even have that in the bank like we were. We were in a pretty bad situation financially, and she just handed me her credit card and said do it now, and so I did. I applied and got in and then I just had no idea what I was doing. I just showed up to UNI, and you know what are we twenty sixteen, mid twenty sixteen I started. Now we're in twenty twenty five. So nine years later, I'm doing a PhD and I work in a research center.

The story of the accidental academic, Which, yeah, I think that's a lot of people who have a similar I mean, I don't yeah, sometimes I don't think academia is on the top of the list for people, but yeah, I do consider myself the accidental academic. Yeah, So I don't know. I just I think we covered a little bit of this last time I grew up, you know, with the value. My family values were very much around gender roles, so I had never I was never raised to believe that I could do anything other than just being, you know, be a reception like go and be a receptionist or you know, like it was all just those I think. I worked in a My first job was in the bank, which my dad said, I'll get your job in a bank, and then it was like, you know, then you'll get married and your husband will take care of you. So I was never really and I did want to go to university when I was when I left school, but they we just never. When I brought it up, it was there was just this awkward silence of my parents were like no. And you know, my dad, I love him to death. He's We've had some big conversations about it now and he he can't. He says, I can't explain it. It's just that girls didn't do that stuff, and that was that was his limiting beliefs and that was how he saw the world. But so I never, I guess I never. It was never really on the cards for me. It was what other people did not me. And then you know I had I worked in Adamin all my life like just reception admin call centers, you know, that kind of job, which was fine, you know I you know, I had three kids, so there was maternity leave and all that sort of thing. And then yeah, I just went when life really kicked me in the dick, I just was like, something needs to change. And I had done a counseling diploma because I'd always had interest in personal development and human behavior. Yeah, so at forty three, I just went. I had a friend of mine who had finished a social work degree and I said, I wish I could do that or something like that, and she said, well, why don't you? And I said, oh, you know, I can't. How am I going to afford to study because I can't work full time If I'm studying, how can I put food on the table. My kids were still sort of preteen early teen sort of ages. And then I just went whatever. I spoke to another friend of mine and she said, well, why don't you do it? And I said, well, I haven't got the money because you have to pay I can't remember. I think it was seventy dollars or something back then to pay the q TAC application fee. And I didn't even have that in the bank like we were. We were in a pretty bad situation financially, and she just handed me her credit card and said do it now, and so I did. I applied and got in and then I just had no idea what I was doing. I just showed up to UNI, and you know what are we twenty sixteen, mid twenty sixteen I started. Now we're in twenty twenty five. So nine years later, I'm doing a PhD and I work in a research center.

Share more about life at that time, because because it was it was, and resources were not available, it was you know, it was a recall of being worse than what you're Yeah.

Share more about life at that time, because because it was it was, and resources were not available, it was you know, it was a recall of being worse than what you're Yeah.

It was pretty bad. I had. I had come out of a a We've talked about this before, come out of a relationship that kind of left me really with no internal compass, like I was was diagnosed with complex trauma, and financially, I had become so financially dependent on this person that I had. I didn't even have a car at the time, and I remember, you know, when we broke up, I begged him to lend me some money so that I could buy a car, just a two thousand dollar car, and so I owed him money. So there was that anyway, and then you know, like I was barely even putting food the money I was getting through I had actually I wasn't working at the time. At the time, work was really hard to come by on the coast. It was just a period of time on the sunny coast where there wasn't a lot of work around. And I mean it was really only paying twenty dollars an hour kind of admin work anyway, so it wasn't enough. And I had friends were buying me groceries, so I had enough enough money to pay the rent and the electricity bill, and then friends were buying groceries, or I was doing freelance writing because I couldn't do some I have a skill in writing, so I was doing a bit of freelance writing and making some money that way. But it was it was kind of like I would do something, an invoice would get paid for the writing, and I'd go straight to the grocery store and spend it all on groceries and then hope that some more money would come in before we ran out of groceries. A couple of times the kids didn't go to school because I had no lunch for them, and we you know. It was just it was pretty bad, the idea of going to UNI. It was like, well, what can what can like nothing can get worse than what it already is. And I don't see another way out of where I am, so just suck it and see it was kind of just just see what happens. And so I was only at the UNI, but I had finished my first semester and one of the ladies in one of my classes was working at the Union and said, oh, they're looking for people over in students Central. So I applied for a job. And I've worked in various jobs now ever since at the UNI, which has been amazing. And I'm now a skill level that I have now from you know, studying and also working in the research center. I was thinking about this the other day. I thought there's very little chance that I'll ever be out of work again because of my skill set. And it was just such a lovely feeling of like I'm okay, like where I've worked hard, I've done done, you know, and I'm good. And when I finished my undergrad degree, I actually forgot to tell Halts this, I bought myself a brand new car. Oh, when I finished my undergrad because I could so boo. I was like, fuck you all, car.

It was pretty bad. I had. I had come out of a a We've talked about this before, come out of a relationship that kind of left me really with no internal compass, like I was was diagnosed with complex trauma, and financially, I had become so financially dependent on this person that I had. I didn't even have a car at the time, and I remember, you know, when we broke up, I begged him to lend me some money so that I could buy a car, just a two thousand dollar car, and so I owed him money. So there was that anyway, and then you know, like I was barely even putting food the money I was getting through I had actually I wasn't working at the time. At the time, work was really hard to come by on the coast. It was just a period of time on the sunny coast where there wasn't a lot of work around. And I mean it was really only paying twenty dollars an hour kind of admin work anyway, so it wasn't enough. And I had friends were buying me groceries, so I had enough enough money to pay the rent and the electricity bill, and then friends were buying groceries, or I was doing freelance writing because I couldn't do some I have a skill in writing, so I was doing a bit of freelance writing and making some money that way. But it was it was kind of like I would do something, an invoice would get paid for the writing, and I'd go straight to the grocery store and spend it all on groceries and then hope that some more money would come in before we ran out of groceries. A couple of times the kids didn't go to school because I had no lunch for them, and we you know. It was just it was pretty bad, the idea of going to UNI. It was like, well, what can what can like nothing can get worse than what it already is. And I don't see another way out of where I am, so just suck it and see it was kind of just just see what happens. And so I was only at the UNI, but I had finished my first semester and one of the ladies in one of my classes was working at the Union and said, oh, they're looking for people over in students Central. So I applied for a job. And I've worked in various jobs now ever since at the UNI, which has been amazing. And I'm now a skill level that I have now from you know, studying and also working in the research center. I was thinking about this the other day. I thought there's very little chance that I'll ever be out of work again because of my skill set. And it was just such a lovely feeling of like I'm okay, like where I've worked hard, I've done done, you know, and I'm good. And when I finished my undergrad degree, I actually forgot to tell Halts this, I bought myself a brand new car. Oh, when I finished my undergrad because I could so boo. I was like, fuck you all, car.

What is There's so much I want to unpack about that, the position you were in. What what was the thought process? Because I think about like, obviously I'm reflecting and everyone listening would be reflecting their own version of this of if I was in that position, how would I be, what would my perception be, what would I feel my options were? And I feel for myself, I would look at study as this enormous expense and debt that I don't have money for, so I'd be running around trying to just make like you can't put groceries on the table, and then you're applying for the luxury of going to fucking university, Like, how how did you come at that? How did you pro how does your mind work around that? And what do you have to get out of the way to make it happen?

What is There's so much I want to unpack about that, the position you were in. What what was the thought process? Because I think about like, obviously I'm reflecting and everyone listening would be reflecting their own version of this of if I was in that position, how would I be, what would my perception be, what would I feel my options were? And I feel for myself, I would look at study as this enormous expense and debt that I don't have money for, so I'd be running around trying to just make like you can't put groceries on the table, and then you're applying for the luxury of going to fucking university, Like, how how did you come at that? How did you pro how does your mind work around that? And what do you have to get out of the way to make it happen?

I thinking back now, like, I don't know that it was a I don't think I consciously won't it's a really like it's it's all reflection now, But I think I feel like I've always had a little bit of a fire in my belly. Yeah, and even though I lived according to the limitations that you know, I was conditioned. There was always a little a little spark, like a little line in there going come on. And I think too when I realized the situation I was in, not only financially but emotionally psychologically, and it was, you know, while I take responsibility for you know, where I'm in life, I allowed somebody to really and not just one person, not just one person. I've allowed people over my life to dictate to me my own self worth and you know whether or not that was their intention or not. And it's me coming to the table with probably not a lot of self worth in the first place, from you know, childhood stuff. And I think I just there was a switch that flicked that was kind of like I'm not fucking doing this anymore. Like I I there's something inside me that tells me that I can do something bigger and better than what I've done, and I hadn't. It was almost like just I had no idea what that was, but I just had faith in knowing that if I just put one foot in front of the other, I would climb out as a hole. And I also think that focusing on because studies hard, university degrees are hard, especially a degree like psychology is hard because you have to kick your grades up. It's not just pease, don't just getch degrees when you're studying a degree like psychology, because if you want to get anywhere with it, it's very competitive. So there's a lot of pressure. And so in many ways, having that focus helped me not drown in my own trauma, if that makes sense, because I remember someone saying to me, it's kind of counterintuitive. You're at rock bottom, your stress levels are through the roof, You're you know, are you even had a natural passatom You're kind of around the corner from a nervous breakdown because of the chronics stress.

I thinking back now, like, I don't know that it was a I don't think I consciously won't it's a really like it's it's all reflection now, But I think I feel like I've always had a little bit of a fire in my belly. Yeah, and even though I lived according to the limitations that you know, I was conditioned. There was always a little a little spark, like a little line in there going come on. And I think too when I realized the situation I was in, not only financially but emotionally psychologically, and it was, you know, while I take responsibility for you know, where I'm in life, I allowed somebody to really and not just one person, not just one person. I've allowed people over my life to dictate to me my own self worth and you know whether or not that was their intention or not. And it's me coming to the table with probably not a lot of self worth in the first place, from you know, childhood stuff. And I think I just there was a switch that flicked that was kind of like I'm not fucking doing this anymore. Like I I there's something inside me that tells me that I can do something bigger and better than what I've done, and I hadn't. It was almost like just I had no idea what that was, but I just had faith in knowing that if I just put one foot in front of the other, I would climb out as a hole. And I also think that focusing on because studies hard, university degrees are hard, especially a degree like psychology is hard because you have to kick your grades up. It's not just pease, don't just getch degrees when you're studying a degree like psychology, because if you want to get anywhere with it, it's very competitive. So there's a lot of pressure. And so in many ways, having that focus helped me not drown in my own trauma, if that makes sense, because I remember someone saying to me, it's kind of counterintuitive. You're at rock bottom, your stress levels are through the roof, You're you know, are you even had a natural passatom You're kind of around the corner from a nervous breakdown because of the chronics stress.

Yep.

Yep.

And it was counterintuitive to go and start a university degree that was going to put me under more stress. It was really it didn't make sense. It actually made no sense. It was like, are you sure you want to take this on because you're already really under a lot of pressure. But it actually, yeah, it's saved my life, I feel like, and I just I can't explain it. I just know that's where I needed to be. And when my first day in a lecture theater, I was like, yeap, this is where I need to be right now, and so I just kept showing up.

And it was counterintuitive to go and start a university degree that was going to put me under more stress. It was really it didn't make sense. It actually made no sense. It was like, are you sure you want to take this on because you're already really under a lot of pressure. But it actually, yeah, it's saved my life, I feel like, and I just I can't explain it. I just know that's where I needed to be. And when my first day in a lecture theater, I was like, yeap, this is where I need to be right now, and so I just kept showing up.

How does one who cannot pay for groceries pay for a UNI degree?

How does one who cannot pay for groceries pay for a UNI degree?

Yeah, well you have a hex. It's all gone to hects. I have a huge text step and I you know, I was on off study obviously, and then our study gives you you you know, you get I think a thousand dollars per semester advance that you pay back later. And I also applied for scholarships every single semester, and I always got scholarships because you know, when you're it's it was tight. There's you know, do I put petrol in the car? Or do I buy toilet paper? Sometimes it comes down to that, you know, because I actually lived down the road from the UNI, so I was like, oh, I can walk to UNI, kids can walk to school. I'll buy toilet paper. There were some days out along that, and so the scholarships helped. And what you know, I would get the scholarships and that'd be like anyway from one thousand dollars to five thousand dollars a semester, and I would then I would put all my electricity bill and my phone bill. I would put everything into credit with the scholarship money, or I'd pay my regio, I'd put tires on the car, whatever. I would just put things into credit with the scholarships so that I didn't have to worry about those bills at all for the rest of the semester. Some little things like that. It's just being a little bit clever with how you manage things. Yeah, it just kind of everything. Just every semester things got better, Like it just got better. Financially, things got better each.

Yeah, well you have a hex. It's all gone to hects. I have a huge text step and I you know, I was on off study obviously, and then our study gives you you you know, you get I think a thousand dollars per semester advance that you pay back later. And I also applied for scholarships every single semester, and I always got scholarships because you know, when you're it's it was tight. There's you know, do I put petrol in the car? Or do I buy toilet paper? Sometimes it comes down to that, you know, because I actually lived down the road from the UNI, so I was like, oh, I can walk to UNI, kids can walk to school. I'll buy toilet paper. There were some days out along that, and so the scholarships helped. And what you know, I would get the scholarships and that'd be like anyway from one thousand dollars to five thousand dollars a semester, and I would then I would put all my electricity bill and my phone bill. I would put everything into credit with the scholarship money, or I'd pay my regio, I'd put tires on the car, whatever. I would just put things into credit with the scholarships so that I didn't have to worry about those bills at all for the rest of the semester. Some little things like that. It's just being a little bit clever with how you manage things. Yeah, it just kind of everything. Just every semester things got better, Like it just got better. Financially, things got better each.

Just in the middle of reading or towards the end of reading again, man search for meaning. And it's just kind of putting back into the forefront of my mind, what having a meaning, having a purpose, having something to drive towards, actually danced towards as humans like, not just emotionally, but to our immune systems, to our nervous systems. And you know, you talk about being around the corner from a nervous breakdown, yet putting more pressure on. And I reflect on a lot because I reflect on all the stages I've had in my life, the different ones here and there, and things like boxing and the choices and the pressure, the physical you know that just the absolute brutality that I would put my body and mind through and feel great and achieve under the circumstances because there was meaning behind it.

Just in the middle of reading or towards the end of reading again, man search for meaning. And it's just kind of putting back into the forefront of my mind, what having a meaning, having a purpose, having something to drive towards, actually danced towards as humans like, not just emotionally, but to our immune systems, to our nervous systems. And you know, you talk about being around the corner from a nervous breakdown, yet putting more pressure on. And I reflect on a lot because I reflect on all the stages I've had in my life, the different ones here and there, and things like boxing and the choices and the pressure, the physical you know that just the absolute brutality that I would put my body and mind through and feel great and achieve under the circumstances because there was meaning behind it.

Yeah, yeah, one. And I think it's if I if I didn't want to be doing it, I think I would have got sicker, Like if I didn't believe that it was, if I didn't believe that it was taking me somewhere, I probably would have got more unwell. And you know, there were times where I was sitting on the floor of the shower in tears because an assignment was due the next day and I hadn't finished it, or you know, it was. It's not to say that it wasn't stressful, but I learned. I don't know. I just I think I really.

Yeah, yeah, one. And I think it's if I if I didn't want to be doing it, I think I would have got sicker, Like if I didn't believe that it was, if I didn't believe that it was taking me somewhere, I probably would have got more unwell. And you know, there were times where I was sitting on the floor of the shower in tears because an assignment was due the next day and I hadn't finished it, or you know, it was. It's not to say that it wasn't stressful, but I learned. I don't know. I just I think I really.

I re.

I re.

Established or rebuilt my self worth every time I finished a semester with high grades or you know, I don't know, it was. It was life changing to just achieve it. And I know that a lot of it was driven by wanting to prove to other people. And I'm okay with admitting that, Like, you know that was if that was what got me motivated to start, that's okay. And then I got to the point where there was there was a point where there was a definite shift from working so hard to run away from who I was to working really hard towards who I wanted to be. So instead of instead of it being instead of trying to prove something, instead of trying to run away from an a version of myself that I was ashamed of, I just shifted focus to the version and of myself that I was becoming. Mm hmm, see if that makes sense. And so instead of instead of shame fueling it, it was hope and faith and you know, a real curiosity about who and what I could achieve and who and what I could be? Yeah?

Established or rebuilt my self worth every time I finished a semester with high grades or you know, I don't know, it was. It was life changing to just achieve it. And I know that a lot of it was driven by wanting to prove to other people. And I'm okay with admitting that, Like, you know that was if that was what got me motivated to start, that's okay. And then I got to the point where there was there was a point where there was a definite shift from working so hard to run away from who I was to working really hard towards who I wanted to be. So instead of instead of it being instead of trying to prove something, instead of trying to run away from an a version of myself that I was ashamed of, I just shifted focus to the version and of myself that I was becoming. Mm hmm, see if that makes sense. And so instead of instead of shame fueling it, it was hope and faith and you know, a real curiosity about who and what I could achieve and who and what I could be? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah? How much? How much did you feel in control of or intentional about these I guess whether we call them choice points or these moments I just think about, you know, especially stories like yours, where I go, here's some real life ship that everyone on some level can relate to parts of. And those people that are hearing this, some of them are in the middle of the ship right now. And what what is their frame of mind? What is their state? How so? How do how do we take something and recreate it? How do we pull from your lessons? What did you do? What was in your control? What wasn't at the time, because reflections are powerful, but I always wonder how are they received by someone that's in the middle of it. Now that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah? How much? How much did you feel in control of or intentional about these I guess whether we call them choice points or these moments I just think about, you know, especially stories like yours, where I go, here's some real life ship that everyone on some level can relate to parts of. And those people that are hearing this, some of them are in the middle of the ship right now. And what what is their frame of mind? What is their state? How so? How do how do we take something and recreate it? How do we pull from your lessons? What did you do? What was in your control? What wasn't at the time, because reflections are powerful, but I always wonder how are they received by someone that's in the middle of it. Now that makes sense.

That's a really interesting question because I think through a lot of it I was on autopilot, that's for sure. Yeah, but I do think that there's like I just have this belief that we can that I've always kind of had this belief that brilliance exists in everybody. Yeah, I used to say it a lot years ago. Yeah, So brilliance exists everywhere in everyone, and I think that the internal dialogue is a huge plays a huge role. Yeah, And you know, I was, you know, I was. I was driven by, you know, a bit of trauma to I was very, very determined that I was never going to depend on someone ever. Again. I was never going to be in a situation where I couldn't take care of myself. So a lot of that is what drove it. And also for my kids too, because my kids had my kids had been told a lot of stuff about their mother that wasn't true or that was the perspective of other people, and so I wanted to show my kids that, you know, that's you know, if you put your head down and bum up and work hard. You can do amazing things. Yeah kind of. I don't know. I don't know what else to say to that, Like it's really yeah, like what, I don't know. I guess A big one is you need to find what your why is and it needs to be it needs to be bigger than you, Like, it can't be just because like I didn't just do a psychology degree because I wanted to tell everyone I was a psychologist. Like I think sometimes we like the idea of things like, oh yeah, I like the idea of being a psychologist, so I'll go and do a psychology degree. But the reality is that it's really fucking hard work and it's probably not what you expected that it's going to be, And so the why has to be more than you know, I just like the idea of, you know, going to a barbecue and saying, Hi, I'm so and so on I'm a whatever astrophyst or whatever. It's the why. The why has to be bigger than you. So that's a big that's a I think that's a big one, Like what's the why? You need to be really clear on why you're doing something. If you're going to commit to a six year degree or any anything that is long term effort and hard work, and you know, sometimes you might feel like giving up. You really have to know and be really clear about what your why is, because it's playing the long game in life. It's hard. Playing the long game is hard because especially these days, everything is so instant, you know, this instant gratification, and I don't know, it's just yeah, it's changing your mindset, like play the long game. Life is a long game.

That's a really interesting question because I think through a lot of it I was on autopilot, that's for sure. Yeah, but I do think that there's like I just have this belief that we can that I've always kind of had this belief that brilliance exists in everybody. Yeah, I used to say it a lot years ago. Yeah, So brilliance exists everywhere in everyone, and I think that the internal dialogue is a huge plays a huge role. Yeah, And you know, I was, you know, I was. I was driven by, you know, a bit of trauma to I was very, very determined that I was never going to depend on someone ever. Again. I was never going to be in a situation where I couldn't take care of myself. So a lot of that is what drove it. And also for my kids too, because my kids had my kids had been told a lot of stuff about their mother that wasn't true or that was the perspective of other people, and so I wanted to show my kids that, you know, that's you know, if you put your head down and bum up and work hard. You can do amazing things. Yeah kind of. I don't know. I don't know what else to say to that, Like it's really yeah, like what, I don't know. I guess A big one is you need to find what your why is and it needs to be it needs to be bigger than you, Like, it can't be just because like I didn't just do a psychology degree because I wanted to tell everyone I was a psychologist. Like I think sometimes we like the idea of things like, oh yeah, I like the idea of being a psychologist, so I'll go and do a psychology degree. But the reality is that it's really fucking hard work and it's probably not what you expected that it's going to be, And so the why has to be more than you know, I just like the idea of, you know, going to a barbecue and saying, Hi, I'm so and so on I'm a whatever astrophyst or whatever. It's the why. The why has to be bigger than you. So that's a big that's a I think that's a big one, Like what's the why? You need to be really clear on why you're doing something. If you're going to commit to a six year degree or any anything that is long term effort and hard work, and you know, sometimes you might feel like giving up. You really have to know and be really clear about what your why is, because it's playing the long game in life. It's hard. Playing the long game is hard because especially these days, everything is so instant, you know, this instant gratification, and I don't know, it's just yeah, it's changing your mindset, like play the long game. Life is a long game.

You were reminding me before of and then when you talked about the why, I'm like, this is it's literally the metaphor for that you're reminding me of the first lesson. I remember thinking after my first fight, so I for this twelve week challenge. I'd never done it before. I was just like, oh yeah, look at me, fucking I'm so courageous. Look at a girl. I'll have a fight or punch in the face, have this fight. That twenty four hours was terrifying. I have never ever in my life felt as anxious and sick to the pit of my stomach as the day I woke up and realized I was going to be fighting in front of a thousand people and TV cameras and all the shit, and I did it. And then I remember having a shower out back, coming back watching fights, standing in front of the ring, watching fights, and just in my own head, I just went, fuck, this is that's I just give up, which doesn't sound a lot long, but it was a twelve week fight camp. I just went from some nuffy that sits in an office that's never thrown a punch in her life saying yes to this experience, to changing everything I do for the last twelve weeks. How I eat, how I socialize, not a drop of our like everything. I walked into a gym almost every single day to get punched in the face with a loud inner critic on my shoulder telling me very honestly that I was pretty shit as most things. But there was that inner thing where I go, now i've got something I'm not it is, and I've got something, and fucking I will show you. And I watched it and went all of that for what ended up to be under five minutes in the boxing ring, and I was like, that's that's anything in life. Your goal has to mean so much to you, because in reality, no one else apart from me gave a flying fucking I won or lost, but it meant everything to me, and I wasn't I didn't know why yet. I didn't have words or understanding around why it meant so much, but I knew that that moment had just changed ranged me and my perception forever. And it was was having a why. It was identified. And of course there was a lot of things I was doing in life, which I thought the boxing was one of them. It was people will think I'm tough, people will think I'll get attention, other people are scared of this, so I'll do it because I'll get all that shit. And then underneath all that, it was like, oh god, yeah, none of this matters.

You were reminding me before of and then when you talked about the why, I'm like, this is it's literally the metaphor for that you're reminding me of the first lesson. I remember thinking after my first fight, so I for this twelve week challenge. I'd never done it before. I was just like, oh yeah, look at me, fucking I'm so courageous. Look at a girl. I'll have a fight or punch in the face, have this fight. That twenty four hours was terrifying. I have never ever in my life felt as anxious and sick to the pit of my stomach as the day I woke up and realized I was going to be fighting in front of a thousand people and TV cameras and all the shit, and I did it. And then I remember having a shower out back, coming back watching fights, standing in front of the ring, watching fights, and just in my own head, I just went, fuck, this is that's I just give up, which doesn't sound a lot long, but it was a twelve week fight camp. I just went from some nuffy that sits in an office that's never thrown a punch in her life saying yes to this experience, to changing everything I do for the last twelve weeks. How I eat, how I socialize, not a drop of our like everything. I walked into a gym almost every single day to get punched in the face with a loud inner critic on my shoulder telling me very honestly that I was pretty shit as most things. But there was that inner thing where I go, now i've got something I'm not it is, and I've got something, and fucking I will show you. And I watched it and went all of that for what ended up to be under five minutes in the boxing ring, and I was like, that's that's anything in life. Your goal has to mean so much to you, because in reality, no one else apart from me gave a flying fucking I won or lost, but it meant everything to me, and I wasn't I didn't know why yet. I didn't have words or understanding around why it meant so much, but I knew that that moment had just changed ranged me and my perception forever. And it was was having a why. It was identified. And of course there was a lot of things I was doing in life, which I thought the boxing was one of them. It was people will think I'm tough, people will think I'll get attention, other people are scared of this, so I'll do it because I'll get all that shit. And then underneath all that, it was like, oh god, yeah, none of this matters.

No, and so and I think too so if if, if your why is superficial, there's just no, there's nothing, there's there's no there's no meat in the game, there's no Yeah, And I guess that brings me to the next thing was something that I probably did work on a lot over that time, was I didn't want to be the person i'd been because the person that I'd been made stupid choices, especially when it came to relationships. So, but there's a whole heap of aspects of myself that needed to change in order for me to be proud of how I show up in the world. And part of that process was really understanding the things that were important to me. So what my values are, what are the things that are in what are the things that I want to live by every day? And I got really clear on that, and then that and that and the why just kept me going like it's just yeah, I kind of got it, was like. And also like when I got to the PhD, it was like, everyone's like, are you going to do a PhD? I'm like, well, what else am I going to do?

No, and so and I think too so if if, if your why is superficial, there's just no, there's nothing, there's there's no there's no meat in the game, there's no Yeah, And I guess that brings me to the next thing was something that I probably did work on a lot over that time, was I didn't want to be the person i'd been because the person that I'd been made stupid choices, especially when it came to relationships. So, but there's a whole heap of aspects of myself that needed to change in order for me to be proud of how I show up in the world. And part of that process was really understanding the things that were important to me. So what my values are, what are the things that are in what are the things that I want to live by every day? And I got really clear on that, and then that and that and the why just kept me going like it's just yeah, I kind of got it, was like. And also like when I got to the PhD, it was like, everyone's like, are you going to do a PhD? I'm like, well, what else am I going to do?

Like it just.

Like it just.

Like it just seemed like the next step, and it was yeah, I don't know. There's something about having faith in following what shows up for you if it aligns with your values. But unless you know what your values are, how do you know if it aligns. I was talking to my boss the other day. Actually, we had a really good conversation because when we were in Melbourne working, we were road tripping out country Victoria and she was talking about I don't know if it was a podcast or where she'd read it somewhere, but the word decide. I grew up. I wasn't very good at making decisions, and I'm not very good at making decisions. I'm getting I'm definitely getting better at it. And she was saying, so if you break down, if you look at the etymology of the word decide, side is like a finality, So homicide suicide.

Like it just seemed like the next step, and it was yeah, I don't know. There's something about having faith in following what shows up for you if it aligns with your values. But unless you know what your values are, how do you know if it aligns. I was talking to my boss the other day. Actually, we had a really good conversation because when we were in Melbourne working, we were road tripping out country Victoria and she was talking about I don't know if it was a podcast or where she'd read it somewhere, but the word decide. I grew up. I wasn't very good at making decisions, and I'm not very good at making decisions. I'm getting I'm definitely getting better at it. And she was saying, so if you break down, if you look at the etymology of the word decide, side is like a finality, So homicide suicide.

The second time I'm having this conversation, Oh really, this is so weird. I've got day.

The second time I'm having this conversation, Oh really, this is so weird. I've got day.

Yeah, maybe it was on a par I can't remember.

Yeah, maybe it was on a par I can't remember.

This was in a private conversation with side I was working with, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I know this. Yeah, that's awesome.

This was in a private conversation with side I was working with, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I know this. Yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, So decide. When you decide something, you decide, you you're choosing something at the exclusion you're killing off other opportunities or you're kid yes, And that's and I always thought that was a bad thing because and that was I think that was one of the reasons why I was terrible at making decisions, because I'd be like, well, if I decide that, then what about that? And it's like, but sometimes you have to make those decisions and decide to do something regardless of how it impacts everything else.

Yeah, So decide. When you decide something, you decide, you you're choosing something at the exclusion you're killing off other opportunities or you're kid yes, And that's and I always thought that was a bad thing because and that was I think that was one of the reasons why I was terrible at making decisions, because I'd be like, well, if I decide that, then what about that? And it's like, but sometimes you have to make those decisions and decide to do something regardless of how it impacts everything else.

And it's part of why like reading this Man's Search for Meaning again right now, that idea that stood out to me A plus. I talked to one hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people to learn to get perspectives, to piecings together, to see what fits, to optimize, to you know, to decide for me what was best. And sometimes in the middle of that it's like, oh, can overload. It's overloading, because it's all good to have all of the information, but no matter what information you're looking for, you'll find it. So in the middle of seeking and gaining information, you still as an individual have to decide consciously what side of the stance you would like to stand by, and then own that decision and if you don't. So Man Search for Meaning talked about this guy who had he'd had this dream that they were going to be set free on March the thirtieth. He goes much so he had this so he was he had the meaning attached to that date, And as the date got nearer and the news got grimmar, he was getting sicker and sicker, and then on the thirtieth he ended up slipping into delirium and unconscious with this illness that he had because he didn't have many he said, the men in those camps that had meaning, Like I think Victor Frankel said he had this meaning behind rewrite the manuscript that he'd lost, so he had to stay alive. But your immune system is affected by the meaning that your mind takes in things. And I think about that when I go, well, yeah, listen to people on different topics, but then make a fucking decision and settle on it and stand by it.

And it's part of why like reading this Man's Search for Meaning again right now, that idea that stood out to me A plus. I talked to one hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people to learn to get perspectives, to piecings together, to see what fits, to optimize, to you know, to decide for me what was best. And sometimes in the middle of that it's like, oh, can overload. It's overloading, because it's all good to have all of the information, but no matter what information you're looking for, you'll find it. So in the middle of seeking and gaining information, you still as an individual have to decide consciously what side of the stance you would like to stand by, and then own that decision and if you don't. So Man Search for Meaning talked about this guy who had he'd had this dream that they were going to be set free on March the thirtieth. He goes much so he had this so he was he had the meaning attached to that date, And as the date got nearer and the news got grimmar, he was getting sicker and sicker, and then on the thirtieth he ended up slipping into delirium and unconscious with this illness that he had because he didn't have many he said, the men in those camps that had meaning, Like I think Victor Frankel said he had this meaning behind rewrite the manuscript that he'd lost, so he had to stay alive. But your immune system is affected by the meaning that your mind takes in things. And I think about that when I go, well, yeah, listen to people on different topics, but then make a fucking decision and settle on it and stand by it.

Yeah yeah, and just keep going, like even when it looks like it's not going to work or yeah, because you always hear about people go just before people often give up just before this. Yeah, yeah, it's I think it's And I'm still kind of processing that whole thing around decision making and just the decide like deciding to study, deciding to stick with it, deciding to do a PhD. They're all they were all really scared, airy decisions to make, but as soon as I made them, nothing else mattered, like you know, so yeah, so you just to recap the why also the values, which kind of feeds into the meaning of things, and then understanding that you have to make You have to make hard decisions sometimes.

Yeah yeah, and just keep going, like even when it looks like it's not going to work or yeah, because you always hear about people go just before people often give up just before this. Yeah, yeah, it's I think it's And I'm still kind of processing that whole thing around decision making and just the decide like deciding to study, deciding to stick with it, deciding to do a PhD. They're all they were all really scared, airy decisions to make, but as soon as I made them, nothing else mattered, like you know, so yeah, so you just to recap the why also the values, which kind of feeds into the meaning of things, and then understanding that you have to make You have to make hard decisions sometimes.

What's the hardest decision you've had to make.

What's the hardest decision you've had to make.

Jess, Oh God, I've made a lot, especially as a parent. I think probably one of the hardest ones was and I don't want to tell my son's story too much here, but when my eldest was younger, he was making choices that were really not working for me. And at first of all, he left home at sixteen, and then he came back and I didn't like what he was doing, and I asked him to leave again. And I think that was that was setting those boundaries and sending my child out into the world because he had a choice he had. I would say, you can be here, but these are the boundaries, these are the things that you have to live by if you live here, and at the time, that's not what he was choosing. So I had to follow through.

Jess, Oh God, I've made a lot, especially as a parent. I think probably one of the hardest ones was and I don't want to tell my son's story too much here, but when my eldest was younger, he was making choices that were really not working for me. And at first of all, he left home at sixteen, and then he came back and I didn't like what he was doing, and I asked him to leave again. And I think that was that was setting those boundaries and sending my child out into the world because he had a choice he had. I would say, you can be here, but these are the boundaries, these are the things that you have to live by if you live here, and at the time, that's not what he was choosing. So I had to follow through.

With the.

With the.

You know, the boundary and well, you can't be here, you know. And there was a couple of times where he would ring and say can I come home? And I'd go, well, are we are you willing to do this? No, don't worry about it, and he would hang up when it was, you know, he was CouchSurfing or that was hard. It was the hardest thing. I think that's probably one of the hardest things decisions I've ever had to make is set those boundaries and send my child into the world, knowing that he was probably going to do himself some dammage out there. But it was the only way that I could not enable some of the behaviors. So, and he's twenty eight now, and he's living back at home now, and he's we're like, he's one of my best friends. Like we're two adults that have you know, He's yeah, we have a really good relationship.

You know, the boundary and well, you can't be here, you know. And there was a couple of times where he would ring and say can I come home? And I'd go, well, are we are you willing to do this? No, don't worry about it, and he would hang up when it was, you know, he was CouchSurfing or that was hard. It was the hardest thing. I think that's probably one of the hardest things decisions I've ever had to make is set those boundaries and send my child into the world, knowing that he was probably going to do himself some dammage out there. But it was the only way that I could not enable some of the behaviors. So, and he's twenty eight now, and he's living back at home now, and he's we're like, he's one of my best friends. Like we're two adults that have you know, He's yeah, we have a really good relationship.

I love this. I'm thinking of someone in particular that is currently struggling with relationships, with a past relationship that's been really turbulent, probably not all too different to parts of your own, really, but and two young children and managing that And so, I mean, I think I can't empathize enough about how hard it must be to want to have a relationship with a child but also set boundaries for what's best for them, and then also be co parenting with someone who is not on your side. Can you speak to that a little bit? Do you have any.

I love this. I'm thinking of someone in particular that is currently struggling with relationships, with a past relationship that's been really turbulent, probably not all too different to parts of your own, really, but and two young children and managing that And so, I mean, I think I can't empathize enough about how hard it must be to want to have a relationship with a child but also set boundaries for what's best for them, and then also be co parenting with someone who is not on your side. Can you speak to that a little bit? Do you have any.

Yeah, it's you know, and I have well, yes, cope, Yeah, that's a mind film pointing with someone who's not on your side and so focused on being right or yeah, you know, just people don't realize it when they get so focused on their own their own stuff, or their own hurt and anger. Like, as a parent, you can't you don't have that luxury. You really don't have that luxury because the kids need to be you know, the children need to be in the forefront. And I didn't always get that right. But yeah, there was a lot of times, and even with my daughter as well, you know, I had white clashed a lot with co parenting with her because I could see, I could seize the risks when she was, you know, in her early teens of some of the people she was hanging out with, or some of the choices she was making, and I was trying to put some things in place to try and help guide her through those years. And it was constantly being undermined by having to co parent with someone who was not on the same page. It's really hard, and I just remember that a I did it. I went to a lot of family counseling and a hot like, I went looking for tools to try and manage to manage it, because amongst all of that, I was trying to deal with my own shit. And I remember saying to the therapist. I need to get this right because I need to be the best parent possible. But I know at the moment I'm not, and I know it's because I've got to deal with my own shit. And I remember she said to me, at the end of the day, your kids need at least one parent that is child focused. So because I was, I had my attention on trying to get the other parent to see things my way, and I was just hitting brick walls and we were en up arguing, and she just said to me, you just got to let that go. You can't control what other people do, and your kids just need one parent. They only need one parent that's child focused, so just be that. You be that. So I didn't always get it right, but yeah, I shut out everything else that was coming from the other side just became white noise, and I just I made the decisions that was best for me and my kids in my house and when, and yeah, they're all adults now, and my daughter's only just moved out now, and I've got the two boys still at home, so you know, it mustn't be too bad living with mum because they're all still they're all still here. But yeah, that was really hard. That's a hard thing to do for anyone co parenting because there's a lot of hurt and anger and stuff that happens in divorce and relationship breakups that you know, as adults we need to navigate, which is not always easy.

Yeah, it's you know, and I have well, yes, cope, Yeah, that's a mind film pointing with someone who's not on your side and so focused on being right or yeah, you know, just people don't realize it when they get so focused on their own their own stuff, or their own hurt and anger. Like, as a parent, you can't you don't have that luxury. You really don't have that luxury because the kids need to be you know, the children need to be in the forefront. And I didn't always get that right. But yeah, there was a lot of times, and even with my daughter as well, you know, I had white clashed a lot with co parenting with her because I could see, I could seize the risks when she was, you know, in her early teens of some of the people she was hanging out with, or some of the choices she was making, and I was trying to put some things in place to try and help guide her through those years. And it was constantly being undermined by having to co parent with someone who was not on the same page. It's really hard, and I just remember that a I did it. I went to a lot of family counseling and a hot like, I went looking for tools to try and manage to manage it, because amongst all of that, I was trying to deal with my own shit. And I remember saying to the therapist. I need to get this right because I need to be the best parent possible. But I know at the moment I'm not, and I know it's because I've got to deal with my own shit. And I remember she said to me, at the end of the day, your kids need at least one parent that is child focused. So because I was, I had my attention on trying to get the other parent to see things my way, and I was just hitting brick walls and we were en up arguing, and she just said to me, you just got to let that go. You can't control what other people do, and your kids just need one parent. They only need one parent that's child focused, so just be that. You be that. So I didn't always get it right, but yeah, I shut out everything else that was coming from the other side just became white noise, and I just I made the decisions that was best for me and my kids in my house and when, and yeah, they're all adults now, and my daughter's only just moved out now, and I've got the two boys still at home, so you know, it mustn't be too bad living with mum because they're all still they're all still here. But yeah, that was really hard. That's a hard thing to do for anyone co parenting because there's a lot of hurt and anger and stuff that happens in divorce and relationship breakups that you know, as adults we need to navigate, which is not always easy.

Yeah, think about things like values and integrity and how we live and treat each other, or what we accept and how we set boundaries. And then I think about especially in a parent when I think of a parenting sense, because that's literally that's the first place that children learn to develop, to see, to observe, to mimic, that's the first and the most that they see this plus this stuff play out, but we often don't acknowledge that for what it is. We probably react to just these circumstances and wanting to build, you know, wanting to we have emotions, and then we want to not feel those emotions. We want to fix things in the moment, but it comes at the cost of what are the deeper levels of interaction that my kids are actually picking up out of this, Like if I allow them, they allow them to be something that's not good for me in my home, in our relationship, then I'm teaching them whatever that is as they're upburs if I set a boundary and then and I just and I know I'm a good person and I'm a good role model, but I set that boundary and go, you can't be that, And they've come back to you, which is beautiful.

Yeah, think about things like values and integrity and how we live and treat each other, or what we accept and how we set boundaries. And then I think about especially in a parent when I think of a parenting sense, because that's literally that's the first place that children learn to develop, to see, to observe, to mimic, that's the first and the most that they see this plus this stuff play out, but we often don't acknowledge that for what it is. We probably react to just these circumstances and wanting to build, you know, wanting to we have emotions, and then we want to not feel those emotions. We want to fix things in the moment, but it comes at the cost of what are the deeper levels of interaction that my kids are actually picking up out of this, Like if I allow them, they allow them to be something that's not good for me in my home, in our relationship, then I'm teaching them whatever that is as they're upburs if I set a boundary and then and I just and I know I'm a good person and I'm a good role model, but I set that boundary and go, you can't be that, And they've come back to you, which is beautiful.

Yeah, it's there was some lots of it was hard. And the year I finished my undergrad degree was the same year that my daughter finished high school. And who yeah, so did you do?

Yeah, it's there was some lots of it was hard. And the year I finished my undergrad degree was the same year that my daughter finished high school. And who yeah, so did you do?

Leave us dinner together?

Leave us dinner together?

We just kind of I remember at Christmas time because I don't drink very much, but that Christmas I had a few gins. I remember just sitting there like crying, laughing, going, we fucking made it. We made it. We did it. We did yeah, we did?

We just kind of I remember at Christmas time because I don't drink very much, but that Christmas I had a few gins. I remember just sitting there like crying, laughing, going, we fucking made it. We made it. We did it. We did yeah, we did?

You know?

You know?

It was just this really beautiful moment of the kids had seen what I had been through to get to where I was. We were all sitting there, We're all like I always refer to my kids like we're just like a Motley creue. We've all got our own little idiosyncrasies. But I've always tried to let my kids be who they are and not try and project any wants or knees onto them of who they should be. Like you know, and like I say, I don't always get it right. But yeah, there was just this really beautiful moment that year where we just kind of all kind of side and went, yeah, we did we made it, and they all kind of went, you did good, mum, you did good. So it was good. That was And so back to the you know what gets you through? Now that I've experienced working through something really hard and getting to the other side, it's kind of built that. It's built the tool for the long game, the resilience, and I know that there's there's always something good on the other side of hard work, as long as you're doing it for the right reasons.

It was just this really beautiful moment of the kids had seen what I had been through to get to where I was. We were all sitting there, We're all like I always refer to my kids like we're just like a Motley creue. We've all got our own little idiosyncrasies. But I've always tried to let my kids be who they are and not try and project any wants or knees onto them of who they should be. Like you know, and like I say, I don't always get it right. But yeah, there was just this really beautiful moment that year where we just kind of all kind of side and went, yeah, we did we made it, and they all kind of went, you did good, mum, you did good. So it was good. That was And so back to the you know what gets you through? Now that I've experienced working through something really hard and getting to the other side, it's kind of built that. It's built the tool for the long game, the resilience, and I know that there's there's always something good on the other side of hard work, as long as you're doing it for the right reasons.

Yeah, who was your biggest influence or mentor who did you look to to inspire you across that any part of life? Really? I guess we.

Yeah, who was your biggest influence or mentor who did you look to to inspire you across that any part of life? Really? I guess we.

Had a few, actually had a few mentors over the years, and I got more and more discerning about who who always followed or who I spoke to. I'd probably say in the last few years, my boss at work is being a huge well my bosses, but particularly my direct supervisor, because she's just so she's a woman in academia. She's head down, bump up, she just gets on with it. She's kind, she's warm, she's empathetic. Yeah, she's boundaried, you know, she's just so that's been she's been a huge influence. And then there's just other people along the way, I think. I mean, Harps has always been, Craig Arpa has always been on my peripheral, like, and then every now and then I would, you know, make contact and go hey, there's just so many like I take little bits and pieces from different people, but I I tend to look at it like I look at someone who's doing what I want to do or is achieving you know that. You know, I call it window shopping, So window shopping other people's lives and going oh, yeah, that looks I'd like to be the kind of person that does that. And so I would then sort of go, well, what is it about that person that makes them capable of doing that? Seeing whatever it is, And then I would do that sort of the journaling, the reflection. You know what's getting in my way, and it's often my own stuff. It's often my own stuff. I think that's I think probably in the last few years, i'd say the people that I work with the most influence over you know what I achieve what I do.