Good eight team, Welcome back to the show. This is Wrong with the Punches podcast and I'll be hostif Cook. Today we are speaking to fighter pilot and leadership speak at Waldo wald when he's a legend, what a firecracker. We're talking about courage and fear. We're talking about discomfort, having panic attacks thirty five thousand feet in the air.

Good eight team, Welcome back to the show. This is Wrong with the Punches podcast and I'll be hostif Cook. Today we are speaking to fighter pilot and leadership speak at Waldo wald when he's a legend, what a firecracker. We're talking about courage and fear. We're talking about discomfort, having panic attacks thirty five thousand feet in the air.

Would you want to be in that jet with him?

Would you want to be in that jet with him?

Just saying, and we're exploring the somewhat darker side to high performance. This is a fun chat. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Nobody wants to go to court and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au.

Just saying, and we're exploring the somewhat darker side to high performance. This is a fun chat. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Nobody wants to go to court and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au.

Waldo Waldmand Welcome to Roll with the Punches.

Waldo Waldmand Welcome to Roll with the Punches.

Great to be here, Tiffany, looking forward to flying with you.

Great to be here, Tiffany, looking forward to flying with you.

I am looking forward to it too. I tell you what, You've had a very cool life. I was doing a very small amount of research again just before jumping on, and I was like, what a cool life, And I am so interested to hear where and how it all started.

I am looking forward to it too. I tell you what, You've had a very cool life. I was doing a very small amount of research again just before jumping on, and I was like, what a cool life, And I am so interested to hear where and how it all started.

What was the most interesting about about my life when you looked into it. I'm curious, I think.

What was the most interesting about about my life when you looked into it. I'm curious, I think.

I mean, obviously there's a lot of information on the things and the principles you talk about, and then I just think about the fighter pilot start. I love how we fall into a passion in life. It was the same with me with boxing, and then all the principles that come out of something that you have to be so focused and almost obsessed with in terms of getting to a certain level with it. You've done two two nearly three thousand flying hours, is that right, yeah?

I mean, obviously there's a lot of information on the things and the principles you talk about, and then I just think about the fighter pilot start. I love how we fall into a passion in life. It was the same with me with boxing, and then all the principles that come out of something that you have to be so focused and almost obsessed with in terms of getting to a certain level with it. You've done two two nearly three thousand flying hours, is that right, yeah?

Almost twenty seven hundred.

Almost twenty seven hundred.

Yeah. And I think when you have to master a skill or a career or a sport or a thing, all of a sudden, you see so many things that align with life. Like I learned so much about me and life and patterns and behaviors and habits and philosophies just from stepping in and getting punched in the face, but.

Yeah. And I think when you have to master a skill or a career or a sport or a thing, all of a sudden, you see so many things that align with life. Like I learned so much about me and life and patterns and behaviors and habits and philosophies just from stepping in and getting punched in the face, but.

It really underscores resilience and great But there's also this underlying concept I think that goes behind the scenes that drives us to want to do these things, you know, And there's a little bit of dysfunctionality I think in it, based on our childhood perhaps or this desire to just crush it because we can't handle average. Like with me, I flew fighters, not necessarily because I love flying planes. I loved planes and aviation and the jets. But I like the challenge. I want to be pushed. I want to have this impulse inside of me that says, push me to the limit, forced me to step out of my comfort zone and prove that I have it, you know, which which sometimes in many ways leads to good things, but other times it can lead the depression, lack of self combetences as well. It could it could build up a resentment and all these things as we drive to be peak performers and so so for me, you know, doing I did very well and you know, high school and then I went to the Air Force Academy graduated there. It's a very tough school to get into, and then I had the opportunity to fly and I just loved the challenge. I went to the Air Force Academy mostly because of the challenge. My dad was a Navy veteran airplane mechattic. I grew up very blue collar, but he mentioned a military to me. I'm like, I'm not doing a military like my dad. Until the guidance counsel started mentioned in the Air Force Academy and the exclusivity of it and how hard it was to get into and the discipline, the training and the respect you garner when you go through this crucible for four years and then come out the other side. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like I really wanted to do that. And obviously I went had the opportunity to go to pilot training, and I'm like, yeah, I'll do it, not necessarily once again because of the drive just to fly. It was more so it's a challenge, it's fun, it's exciting. Let's do it. And what better way to challenge yourself than becoming a pilot and then eventually becoming a fighter pilot, which in and of itself is another story. You know.

It really underscores resilience and great But there's also this underlying concept I think that goes behind the scenes that drives us to want to do these things, you know, And there's a little bit of dysfunctionality I think in it, based on our childhood perhaps or this desire to just crush it because we can't handle average. Like with me, I flew fighters, not necessarily because I love flying planes. I loved planes and aviation and the jets. But I like the challenge. I want to be pushed. I want to have this impulse inside of me that says, push me to the limit, forced me to step out of my comfort zone and prove that I have it, you know, which which sometimes in many ways leads to good things, but other times it can lead the depression, lack of self combetences as well. It could it could build up a resentment and all these things as we drive to be peak performers and so so for me, you know, doing I did very well and you know, high school and then I went to the Air Force Academy graduated there. It's a very tough school to get into, and then I had the opportunity to fly and I just loved the challenge. I went to the Air Force Academy mostly because of the challenge. My dad was a Navy veteran airplane mechattic. I grew up very blue collar, but he mentioned a military to me. I'm like, I'm not doing a military like my dad. Until the guidance counsel started mentioned in the Air Force Academy and the exclusivity of it and how hard it was to get into and the discipline, the training and the respect you garner when you go through this crucible for four years and then come out the other side. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like I really wanted to do that. And obviously I went had the opportunity to go to pilot training, and I'm like, yeah, I'll do it, not necessarily once again because of the drive just to fly. It was more so it's a challenge, it's fun, it's exciting. Let's do it. And what better way to challenge yourself than becoming a pilot and then eventually becoming a fighter pilot, which in and of itself is another story. You know.

I love that, and I love what you say about those who push and what's really driving it.

I love that, and I love what you say about those who push and what's really driving it.

When I first started this show.

When I first started this show.

It was in the midst of the pandemic, and I started speaking to people so interested in adversity and what we can learn from people.

It was in the midst of the pandemic, and I started speaking to people so interested in adversity and what we can learn from people.

Who grow from it.

Who grow from it.

But also I was interested in high performance, so I started also speaking to high performers and ultra endurance athletes and people that have done amazing stuff. And realized really quickly, Oh, I'm not I'm actually not speaking to two different sets of people at all. I'm just having two different conversations with people that seem to have the same story because a lot of them were driven by stuff like greatness seemed to be driven often by pain or running from something, or as some sort of a some often negative or hardship.

But also I was interested in high performance, so I started also speaking to high performers and ultra endurance athletes and people that have done amazing stuff. And realized really quickly, Oh, I'm not I'm actually not speaking to two different sets of people at all. I'm just having two different conversations with people that seem to have the same story because a lot of them were driven by stuff like greatness seemed to be driven often by pain or running from something, or as some sort of a some often negative or hardship.

Yeah, it's kind of forces you to go deep and tap into that why. You know that, I call it the why before you lie, the meaning to your mission. And sometimes it's not readily apparent, like there's I think there's personal growth and personal development, pushing, growing, grinding right and sharpening the sword and all that. And then when you become successful and hit that that peak which is only you know, the next level to the next peak, right, and the next peak and next peak, you start developing this self the success and and and self respect and like, all right, I could do this, and then you start understanding there there are other reasons why you may have been on this journey. To help others, to to become more huge humble in life, to become more compassionate too, uh, to help kick others in the ass who are breaking their barriers, right, and so a lot of what I'm doing right now, uh and sharing my story, which we'll get into you a little bit, is is like I think my calling is to is to help people find that that compelling why you know, that that that that that driver inside of them, but beyond that, what brings true meaning and fulfillment, beyond the win, right, like like like getting going into a ring and getting knocked out can can be a win. You know. I was just reading somewhere. I think it was some some I don't know if it was like a story on LinkedIn or whatever. It's somebody who uh who you know they got actually yeah, another speaker friend of mine, and so he he didn't want to do wrestling, and his dad was like, you're gonna wrestle, You're gonna wrestle, blah blah blah. He went in there and wrestled, was scared, scared to death, went in there, faced his fears and went to the did the whole match and got pinned. And he's like, I won. I did it and got his ass kick. But he's like, I faced my fear and I got pinned. But I I I went on the opposite side of that fear, and I had the courage to step into the ring. And what does that do? It gives you courage and confidence to try other things. And uh, it's not necessarily the fight that counts. It's the outcome, regardless of winning and losing and facing our demons and creating this meaning behind why we do what we do. And once again, if we're relatively immature in life and lacking experience and depth and maturity, we may not have that understanding, that true authentic understanding of that. And now I get why I did that. Now I understand the dysfunctionality behind it, but how I benefited from it, and what really maybe call it spiritual or God sent or purpose driven. Why we stepped it to the ring or flew the jets, faced our fears and then said, ah, now I get why, in my opinion, why God in the universe wanted me to do that because of what I could give to others through that process. And I think, you know you're not twenty years old, right, you've experienced life, maybe twenty two, right, Yeah, So let me share with you a little bit about like what happened in my journey. You may have read a little bit about it, but I don't share it too much. So I became a young instructor pilot. It wasn't good enough of my class to become a fighter pilot. Number one guy was Andy Toath. He got the F fifteen, and I hated him, I because I wanted to fly fighters. But then the next best thing was to be an instructor pilot, not a tanker pilot, not a heavy pilot, not a bomber pilot. But if you're an instructor pilot, you teach young pilots how to fly jets and then they go on after pilot training to fighters, bombers, transport, et cetera. And so it was a good way to still do arobatics in formation, to do some really cool stuff at a small maneuverable jet, but it wasn't flying fighters. However, after three or four years of being an instructor command Tiffany. Then you'd get to recompete and say, okay, now you can thanks for your instructor tour. You did a great job. Now they done your ranking. You can now fly this jet or you have to fly this jet, or choose whatever jet you want. Congratulations, right, And so it was a way to kind of still stay in the fight and still earn your dream and of becoming a fighter pilot. So I'm like, all right, this will be cool. And once again I still wanted to fly fighters, but I was okay being an instructor. I love teaching. And so three years into my eleven year active duty flying career, I went scuba diving in the Caribbean. As a matter of fact, I was texting my friends Brian Raimer and Pete Yon. They were both pilot training classmates of mine who went off and did their own things. And two years later we said, hey, let's go on a trip. Three single guys going up into the Caribbean having a good time. And so we decided to go and we went scuba diving. And this was an antigua. I'd never been scuba diving before. Those guys have been like five or ten times they were pretty good. And we did that you know, ten minute crash course with this eighteen year old instructor who probably had some farm substance going through his body while I was teaching us, you know, and I'm like, okay, and I'm like, how hard can it be? You know, give me a freaking mask. I'll swim around in the water and we'll be done. Unbeknownst to me, I wish I paid a little more attention to the mission briefing. And I'm in the water flannel like an idiot. Arms are going crazy. I'm totally not doing proper technic. Have you been scuba diamond before?

Yeah, it's kind of forces you to go deep and tap into that why. You know that, I call it the why before you lie, the meaning to your mission. And sometimes it's not readily apparent, like there's I think there's personal growth and personal development, pushing, growing, grinding right and sharpening the sword and all that. And then when you become successful and hit that that peak which is only you know, the next level to the next peak, right, and the next peak and next peak, you start developing this self the success and and and self respect and like, all right, I could do this, and then you start understanding there there are other reasons why you may have been on this journey. To help others, to to become more huge humble in life, to become more compassionate too, uh, to help kick others in the ass who are breaking their barriers, right, and so a lot of what I'm doing right now, uh and sharing my story, which we'll get into you a little bit, is is like I think my calling is to is to help people find that that compelling why you know, that that that that that driver inside of them, but beyond that, what brings true meaning and fulfillment, beyond the win, right, like like like getting going into a ring and getting knocked out can can be a win. You know. I was just reading somewhere. I think it was some some I don't know if it was like a story on LinkedIn or whatever. It's somebody who uh who you know they got actually yeah, another speaker friend of mine, and so he he didn't want to do wrestling, and his dad was like, you're gonna wrestle, You're gonna wrestle, blah blah blah. He went in there and wrestled, was scared, scared to death, went in there, faced his fears and went to the did the whole match and got pinned. And he's like, I won. I did it and got his ass kick. But he's like, I faced my fear and I got pinned. But I I I went on the opposite side of that fear, and I had the courage to step into the ring. And what does that do? It gives you courage and confidence to try other things. And uh, it's not necessarily the fight that counts. It's the outcome, regardless of winning and losing and facing our demons and creating this meaning behind why we do what we do. And once again, if we're relatively immature in life and lacking experience and depth and maturity, we may not have that understanding, that true authentic understanding of that. And now I get why I did that. Now I understand the dysfunctionality behind it, but how I benefited from it, and what really maybe call it spiritual or God sent or purpose driven. Why we stepped it to the ring or flew the jets, faced our fears and then said, ah, now I get why, in my opinion, why God in the universe wanted me to do that because of what I could give to others through that process. And I think, you know you're not twenty years old, right, you've experienced life, maybe twenty two, right, Yeah, So let me share with you a little bit about like what happened in my journey. You may have read a little bit about it, but I don't share it too much. So I became a young instructor pilot. It wasn't good enough of my class to become a fighter pilot. Number one guy was Andy Toath. He got the F fifteen, and I hated him, I because I wanted to fly fighters. But then the next best thing was to be an instructor pilot, not a tanker pilot, not a heavy pilot, not a bomber pilot. But if you're an instructor pilot, you teach young pilots how to fly jets and then they go on after pilot training to fighters, bombers, transport, et cetera. And so it was a good way to still do arobatics in formation, to do some really cool stuff at a small maneuverable jet, but it wasn't flying fighters. However, after three or four years of being an instructor command Tiffany. Then you'd get to recompete and say, okay, now you can thanks for your instructor tour. You did a great job. Now they done your ranking. You can now fly this jet or you have to fly this jet, or choose whatever jet you want. Congratulations, right, And so it was a way to kind of still stay in the fight and still earn your dream and of becoming a fighter pilot. So I'm like, all right, this will be cool. And once again I still wanted to fly fighters, but I was okay being an instructor. I love teaching. And so three years into my eleven year active duty flying career, I went scuba diving in the Caribbean. As a matter of fact, I was texting my friends Brian Raimer and Pete Yon. They were both pilot training classmates of mine who went off and did their own things. And two years later we said, hey, let's go on a trip. Three single guys going up into the Caribbean having a good time. And so we decided to go and we went scuba diving. And this was an antigua. I'd never been scuba diving before. Those guys have been like five or ten times they were pretty good. And we did that you know, ten minute crash course with this eighteen year old instructor who probably had some farm substance going through his body while I was teaching us, you know, and I'm like, okay, and I'm like, how hard can it be? You know, give me a freaking mask. I'll swim around in the water and we'll be done. Unbeknownst to me, I wish I paid a little more attention to the mission briefing. And I'm in the water flannel like an idiot. Arms are going crazy. I'm totally not doing proper technic. Have you been scuba diamond before?

I did it in a tank with sharks once, but not properly, like you know, this was.

I did it in a tank with sharks once, but not properly, like you know, this was.

The This was you know, out there in the open ocean. And so so I don't know what I'm doing, and I start panicking in the water and I'm using my arms instead of my legs, and the lactic acids building up, I start sinking in the water. I'm out of breath and I'm like, this sucks. I can't move. My body's aching. And then my mask must have malfunctioned and I inhaled a whole lungful of salt water, like literally, you may as well have taken it out of your mouth. And then in hell, yeah, I start choking, freaking out. I'm like, I'm gonna fucking die in this water, you know, breathing all this, all the salt water. My lungs felt like they were gonna explode. I start having what's called a panic attack. Now I didn't know what a panic attack was before that moment. I thought I was going to die. Worst experience in my life, no combat mission could even come close to the panic and fear and despair I felt at that moment. And I'm like, I got to get the heck out of this water now, just pure hell. He brings me up after rolling his eyes on the water. I'll never forget. He's like, oh, here we go in one of those guys, right, And so I go up out of the water and then I leave and I'm like, all right, that sucked. I won't be doing that for a while or again. And so like a few days later, I'm back in Oklahoma, where I was stationed in the middle of the States, and I was flying across country training mission from Oklahoma down to Shreveport, Louisiana and all the way up back up to New York in the Northeast to see my family, and the weather was just absolutely terrible, thunderstorms, lightning the whole nine yards, etc. Actually not too much lightning, but it was just really, really bad. We're navigating a way around the weather, and I'm socked into the weather and I can't see the sun, can't see the ground. We're flying through this what's called the soup, like mushroom soup. You know, you're totally socked into this weather. And I started having a panic attack again. Thought something was wrong with the oxygen. There wasn't anything wrong with the oxygen, but there was everything wrong with me. And I experienced the same panic that I had a few days prior, but instead of being thirty five feet under the water, now thirty five thousand feet in the air, massive claustrophobia. I'm like, I got to get that hell out of you. Now, this guy, I can't tell the guy. There was another pilot with me side by side, seating and I go cold mic I didn't want him to hear me breathing, and I'm like, what's going on? And I'm just frozen. I'm like, I have got to get the hell out of this plane. Long story short, you know, I made it through. We stopped off into another two bases and then made it up there and I'm like, what is going on you? Why am I so afraid? So I realized I was experiencing some PTSD, not from being in Iraq being shot at by missiles or Kosovo, which happened to me years later, but by being in this situation where I just had pure hell. And so bottom mine is, for the next eight years of my eleven year flying career, every time I strapped it to that jet, Tiffany, I had to deal with this panic and anxiety and fear that threatened to paralyze my quest to do what I love more than anything else, which is to fly jets and fly fighters and to crush it. And obviously I didn't quit. And so my journey and my next book for that matter, that I'm working on, is how to break through that fear and how I can strap in knowing that I'm going to fly a six or seven hour mission over Iraq, or a two hour night mission in Oklahoma or Texas or Arizona and face those that claustrophobia that of gooraphobia, that fear, that mental issue and just say I'm going to muscle through it. I'm going to do what I can and break it out on the other side. So eight years I had to deal with that and it was easier at times, at other times it was tougher. And then because this was even before I flew fighters, this is before I chose to fly the F sixteen, right, And so I'll stop there because it's a kind of a lot to compress. But but there's a lot more to it because the desire, the decision of fly fighters and face my fear even more was there's a whole nother story.

The This was you know, out there in the open ocean. And so so I don't know what I'm doing, and I start panicking in the water and I'm using my arms instead of my legs, and the lactic acids building up, I start sinking in the water. I'm out of breath and I'm like, this sucks. I can't move. My body's aching. And then my mask must have malfunctioned and I inhaled a whole lungful of salt water, like literally, you may as well have taken it out of your mouth. And then in hell, yeah, I start choking, freaking out. I'm like, I'm gonna fucking die in this water, you know, breathing all this, all the salt water. My lungs felt like they were gonna explode. I start having what's called a panic attack. Now I didn't know what a panic attack was before that moment. I thought I was going to die. Worst experience in my life, no combat mission could even come close to the panic and fear and despair I felt at that moment. And I'm like, I got to get the heck out of this water now, just pure hell. He brings me up after rolling his eyes on the water. I'll never forget. He's like, oh, here we go in one of those guys, right, And so I go up out of the water and then I leave and I'm like, all right, that sucked. I won't be doing that for a while or again. And so like a few days later, I'm back in Oklahoma, where I was stationed in the middle of the States, and I was flying across country training mission from Oklahoma down to Shreveport, Louisiana and all the way up back up to New York in the Northeast to see my family, and the weather was just absolutely terrible, thunderstorms, lightning the whole nine yards, etc. Actually not too much lightning, but it was just really, really bad. We're navigating a way around the weather, and I'm socked into the weather and I can't see the sun, can't see the ground. We're flying through this what's called the soup, like mushroom soup. You know, you're totally socked into this weather. And I started having a panic attack again. Thought something was wrong with the oxygen. There wasn't anything wrong with the oxygen, but there was everything wrong with me. And I experienced the same panic that I had a few days prior, but instead of being thirty five feet under the water, now thirty five thousand feet in the air, massive claustrophobia. I'm like, I got to get that hell out of you. Now, this guy, I can't tell the guy. There was another pilot with me side by side, seating and I go cold mic I didn't want him to hear me breathing, and I'm like, what's going on? And I'm just frozen. I'm like, I have got to get the hell out of this plane. Long story short, you know, I made it through. We stopped off into another two bases and then made it up there and I'm like, what is going on you? Why am I so afraid? So I realized I was experiencing some PTSD, not from being in Iraq being shot at by missiles or Kosovo, which happened to me years later, but by being in this situation where I just had pure hell. And so bottom mine is, for the next eight years of my eleven year flying career, every time I strapped it to that jet, Tiffany, I had to deal with this panic and anxiety and fear that threatened to paralyze my quest to do what I love more than anything else, which is to fly jets and fly fighters and to crush it. And obviously I didn't quit. And so my journey and my next book for that matter, that I'm working on, is how to break through that fear and how I can strap in knowing that I'm going to fly a six or seven hour mission over Iraq, or a two hour night mission in Oklahoma or Texas or Arizona and face those that claustrophobia that of gooraphobia, that fear, that mental issue and just say I'm going to muscle through it. I'm going to do what I can and break it out on the other side. So eight years I had to deal with that and it was easier at times, at other times it was tougher. And then because this was even before I flew fighters, this is before I chose to fly the F sixteen, right, And so I'll stop there because it's a kind of a lot to compress. But but there's a lot more to it because the desire, the decision of fly fighters and face my fear even more was there's a whole nother story.

In the middle of that.

In the middle of that.

Did you feel like you did you feel like it was your body or your mind that you needed to get through this?

Did you feel like you did you feel like it was your body or your mind that you needed to get through this?

Like where was the puzzle for you?

Like where was the puzzle for you?

So, so look, when you have a have you ever had a panic attacker anxiety?

So, so look, when you have a have you ever had a panic attacker anxiety?

Yeah, I've had the mid sparring sessions.

Yeah, I've had the mid sparring sessions.

Oh you have? Yeah? Like literally like You're like.

Oh you have? Yeah? Like literally like You're like.

Okay, well I just can't breathe, and I'm like I can't I can't breathe.

Okay, well I just can't breathe, and I'm like I can't I can't breathe.

What's going on?

What's going on?

Yeah, So it is theological and mental. It is you can't your brain. If I start focusing now, both of us can have a heart rate go up. We could taste lemon in our mouths, right, I mean, your brain is an amazing organ to to to create feeling, to create phiss theological changes. You know, I could my hands could start sweating at the right time. So our bodies are impacted by our mind and our and our mind obviously impacts our body. That's that's uh mind can impact our body. Our body can impact our mind. And so it was both. It was both. But physiologically I knew I had to control my thoughts and feelings and to get them, you know, breathe through it and do a bunch of things that I did to control it before I physiologically felt better. But when you're in a situation, heart pounding, you know, rapid breathing, freaking out, it's hard for your you to take over your mind and it could be a you know, it could could re manifest itself. It's very very difficult to get that under control. So yeah, So those times when I was at twenty five thousand feet over a rack after a four hour mission, getting ready to go to the town anchor and I'm like, oh shit, here it goes, you know, and then you remember you're like strapped into this tiny plane, like you just can't just land. You just can't say, hey, I'm just going to take a break.

Yeah, So it is theological and mental. It is you can't your brain. If I start focusing now, both of us can have a heart rate go up. We could taste lemon in our mouths, right, I mean, your brain is an amazing organ to to to create feeling, to create phiss theological changes. You know, I could my hands could start sweating at the right time. So our bodies are impacted by our mind and our and our mind obviously impacts our body. That's that's uh mind can impact our body. Our body can impact our mind. And so it was both. It was both. But physiologically I knew I had to control my thoughts and feelings and to get them, you know, breathe through it and do a bunch of things that I did to control it before I physiologically felt better. But when you're in a situation, heart pounding, you know, rapid breathing, freaking out, it's hard for your you to take over your mind and it could be a you know, it could could re manifest itself. It's very very difficult to get that under control. So yeah, So those times when I was at twenty five thousand feet over a rack after a four hour mission, getting ready to go to the town anchor and I'm like, oh shit, here it goes, you know, and then you remember you're like strapped into this tiny plane, like you just can't just land. You just can't say, hey, I'm just going to take a break.

Yeah, the risk is high up there. It's not you know, like I'm in the boxing room and getting punched in the face, but the risk is not as high. I mean, I can whatever. You know, you can get out, you can stop being fall to the ground. You can you know, if you if you hold on and things still want to go, well, you just get punched in the face even harder. It's fine, but when you're flying thirty five thousand feet above the ground, I don't want a panny attack then.

Yeah, the risk is high up there. It's not you know, like I'm in the boxing room and getting punched in the face, but the risk is not as high. I mean, I can whatever. You know, you can get out, you can stop being fall to the ground. You can you know, if you if you hold on and things still want to go, well, you just get punched in the face even harder. It's fine, but when you're flying thirty five thousand feet above the ground, I don't want a panny attack then.

Yeah. And by the way, and it's very important to note that, like it impacted my ability. Sometimes I'd have to get focused, but I would still I would still be able to do the job. When I was a young instructor teaching young men and women how to fly, I would have these occasional padic attacks, but I was still able to instruct. I became instructive Pile of the year. I was as a fighter pilot, I was rated flightly to of the Quarter. I had all these awards. I was an average fighter. Pot it wasn't great. I had my moments. I didn't fly that long in the fighter wall for maybe four or five years. But I'm not saying I wasn't bad, but I wasn't great like these others. But I flew every combat mission. I did what had to be done, and that part of it was the gift. And so there's a lot of different steps to deal with this. So and I could talk about deciding why I chose to fly fighters a little bit later, but part of it is when I focused on my student, when I focused on my team and distracted myself from myself, I was able to subjugate my fear to service and to be totally in the zone to take care of my teammates. And many times in life, I don't know, are you a parent or do you have somebody in your life that you really really love? Brothers, sister, friend, dog.

Yeah. And by the way, and it's very important to note that, like it impacted my ability. Sometimes I'd have to get focused, but I would still I would still be able to do the job. When I was a young instructor teaching young men and women how to fly, I would have these occasional padic attacks, but I was still able to instruct. I became instructive Pile of the year. I was as a fighter pilot, I was rated flightly to of the Quarter. I had all these awards. I was an average fighter. Pot it wasn't great. I had my moments. I didn't fly that long in the fighter wall for maybe four or five years. But I'm not saying I wasn't bad, but I wasn't great like these others. But I flew every combat mission. I did what had to be done, and that part of it was the gift. And so there's a lot of different steps to deal with this. So and I could talk about deciding why I chose to fly fighters a little bit later, but part of it is when I focused on my student, when I focused on my team and distracted myself from myself, I was able to subjugate my fear to service and to be totally in the zone to take care of my teammates. And many times in life, I don't know, are you a parent or do you have somebody in your life that you really really love? Brothers, sister, friend, dog.

Or something like yeah, dog, yeah the dog?

Or something like yeah, dog, yeah the dog?

We got two cats and a dog? Again? What kind of dog?

We got two cats and a dog? Again? What kind of dog?

By the way, whip it?

By the way, whip it?

Oh love whipp its? Yeah?

Oh love whipp its? Yeah?

Yeah, the best, the best?

Yeah, the best, the best?

Yeah? What's that?

Yeah? What's that?

The best day? Yesterday?

The best day? Yesterday?

Oh? No, kiddy? What's your name?

Oh? No, kiddy? What's your name?

Luna?

Luna?

Luna beautiful? I want to I got a picture of my wife kissing my great danes. Right, we got a great day and.

Luna beautiful? I want to I got a picture of my wife kissing my great danes. Right, we got a great day and.

Totally love it best.

Totally love it best.

So when you have love of something, and I believe love is service and action or service is love and action, you're not afraid to do what you need to do, yeah, because you're so focused on taking care of somebody else. Like And so I was massively afraid of heights as well, by the way, I I had a face my fear as diving boards thirty three feet diving boys in order to fly. And so I had all these peers and anxieties, probably because of a very tough child that I had as well, which we could talk about later in another skull or whatever. But a lot of tension and stress in my life as a kid. So when you distract yourself from yourself and focus on who needs you, you find that you're more committed to that and that service than you are committed to take you care of yourself when you push the mirror away from you and focus on my wingman, my team, my future son, the person that needs me more. And I think if you look at like if you like your dog or your best friend, or your brother or sister, like you would do anything for them. I'm sure you would fight. You would fight, you know any gold medal Olympic champion, you know, Mike Tyson. You go into the ring and take it to the left hook to save somebody or fight for somebody that you loved, right, So that was part of it. So part of the way I was able to deal with the fears by focusing on them and serving, getting in the zone and distracting myself from myself the service. And I always tell people that I coach, like, if you're having difficulties, tap into who needs you and what skill or mindset or courageous action you could take to lift them up. And I think that is a spiritual that is a very a deeper emotion that only comes when you're really facing your fears. I think that's why any soldier in war will take a hill with their teammates rather than going up on their own. That's why my book Never Flies Solo. It's about that concept of support and courage that's only given when you give your wings away and help others.

So when you have love of something, and I believe love is service and action or service is love and action, you're not afraid to do what you need to do, yeah, because you're so focused on taking care of somebody else. Like And so I was massively afraid of heights as well, by the way, I I had a face my fear as diving boards thirty three feet diving boys in order to fly. And so I had all these peers and anxieties, probably because of a very tough child that I had as well, which we could talk about later in another skull or whatever. But a lot of tension and stress in my life as a kid. So when you distract yourself from yourself and focus on who needs you, you find that you're more committed to that and that service than you are committed to take you care of yourself when you push the mirror away from you and focus on my wingman, my team, my future son, the person that needs me more. And I think if you look at like if you like your dog or your best friend, or your brother or sister, like you would do anything for them. I'm sure you would fight. You would fight, you know any gold medal Olympic champion, you know, Mike Tyson. You go into the ring and take it to the left hook to save somebody or fight for somebody that you loved, right, So that was part of it. So part of the way I was able to deal with the fears by focusing on them and serving, getting in the zone and distracting myself from myself the service. And I always tell people that I coach, like, if you're having difficulties, tap into who needs you and what skill or mindset or courageous action you could take to lift them up. And I think that is a spiritual that is a very a deeper emotion that only comes when you're really facing your fears. I think that's why any soldier in war will take a hill with their teammates rather than going up on their own. That's why my book Never Flies Solo. It's about that concept of support and courage that's only given when you give your wings away and help others.

I love that one thing that first grabbed me about resilience in especially those early years of boxing, and because for me, it was this. I was twenty nine, I had my first fight, so that was twelve years ago now, got nearly thirteen years ago now, and I'd never done anything of the sorts. Put my hand up for a twelve week boxing challenge, professional boxing fight in front of a thousand people and TV cameras and all the things. So it was like a terrifying ordeal. And I remember, you know, prior to that, I'd moved over from a little bottom state of Australia, which is Tasmania. It's a island of its own, and I'd moved from there to Melbourne, big city, and all bravado, all independents, all little miss courageous, little miss cocky, you know, and I believed it. And I remember a couple of years into boxing realizing that this whole thing was a facade. But then also those couple of years, I was twenty nine. By the time I was thirty one, it had brought to the surface a whole bunch of suppressed trauma from my childhood, stuff that I knew had happened, but I just popped it. I'd just like I, we'll just move away from that, we'll forget about it, We'll never think about it and then we'll go build a life and it will never be there anymore. But it is and it was, and my philosophy as it came up through this stuff gets stored in your body, and I think the movement of energy and the practice of kind of getting to know yourself in such a physical sport brought all that to my attention. Resilience I found, and I think in recent years as well, people bang on about it so much, and there was you know, it was a moment where I was like, some of what you guys see is resilience in me isn't resilience.

I love that one thing that first grabbed me about resilience in especially those early years of boxing, and because for me, it was this. I was twenty nine, I had my first fight, so that was twelve years ago now, got nearly thirteen years ago now, and I'd never done anything of the sorts. Put my hand up for a twelve week boxing challenge, professional boxing fight in front of a thousand people and TV cameras and all the things. So it was like a terrifying ordeal. And I remember, you know, prior to that, I'd moved over from a little bottom state of Australia, which is Tasmania. It's a island of its own, and I'd moved from there to Melbourne, big city, and all bravado, all independents, all little miss courageous, little miss cocky, you know, and I believed it. And I remember a couple of years into boxing realizing that this whole thing was a facade. But then also those couple of years, I was twenty nine. By the time I was thirty one, it had brought to the surface a whole bunch of suppressed trauma from my childhood, stuff that I knew had happened, but I just popped it. I'd just like I, we'll just move away from that, we'll forget about it, We'll never think about it and then we'll go build a life and it will never be there anymore. But it is and it was, and my philosophy as it came up through this stuff gets stored in your body, and I think the movement of energy and the practice of kind of getting to know yourself in such a physical sport brought all that to my attention. Resilience I found, and I think in recent years as well, people bang on about it so much, and there was you know, it was a moment where I was like, some of what you guys see is resilience in me isn't resilience.

It's just me. It's dissociation. And that's cool.

It's just me. It's dissociation. And that's cool.

Dissociations can be a superpower. But if you don't know you're doing it, and then you're just responding to this facade of oh, I'm so resilient, I think that's where we can get tracked. So I'm interested in, I guess your philosophy around resilience, what it is and what it's not.

Dissociations can be a superpower. But if you don't know you're doing it, and then you're just responding to this facade of oh, I'm so resilient, I think that's where we can get tracked. So I'm interested in, I guess your philosophy around resilience, what it is and what it's not.

It's interesting the concept. You're right, I think I've never heard it said that way. And maybe like you call it distraction or what would you call it, Like it's your association disassociation. Yeah, like you're totally disassociating yourself with feelings and you're just just going in there. But I believe, like you know, resilience is only built when you expose yourself to the suffering in some way. You know. It's like it's like I say, pain leads to peace, and any athlete, especially you know this pain, the struggle getting in the ring and stuff like that, and going through it when you're done after a serious workout or getting your ass kicked or winning and stuff, it builds this sense of peace. It's like it's like you you feel good about yourself, You conquered yourself, You face your demons and went through it physiologically, meant et cetera. However, the resilience component, it's more like like the more you do it, the more you used to that feeling. So when you were first a couple of times you went you know, you know, stepped into the ring, it was a lot more difficult than the probably the last couple of times you went in because you're used to that fear, that anxiety. You trained, You built up that resilience muscle. So when the enemy comes and you're put in that situation, you're like, oh, I still maybe just as out of breath. I'm still freaking out in some way, but you're used to that and so resilient. The resilience muscle for me was built, and it's built for anybody who continuously steps into the ring, who continuously flies rejects when they're claustrophobic, who continuously gets on the phone call deals with their rejections and objections, who goes out there and puts them on the ledge, and they're maybe experiencing the same fear, but it's not as far into them. So if you're an athlete running running, running for the first time, freaking out, like you don't know how to handle like marathon runners know how to hit that state, or any athlete you know when you're at that state, heart rate and all that, you're in the third round and you know, it's like, and I've boxed before, and that is tough, like you are. I have such respect for boxers UFC fighters, it's such a higher level and so but they're like, I've been there, I know this feeling. I'm trained for it, I'm in shape, I'm prepared. I can work my way through this. So subconsciously and mentally, you're able to work through that, and so resilience to me is built not by oh, I'm gonna smell a rose or listen to the begs, or pet my freaking dog or take a nap and escape it. It's it's resilience has made because I'm continuously putting myself into unknown situations and I'm having that anxiety that physiological episodes that I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. And so when I wanted to the jet hundreds of times after dealing with my claustrophobia, I'm like, Okay, this sucks. Been there before. I recognize the feeling. I'm breathing through it. I'm going through my exercise to deal with that. I'm tapping into my team. I'm saying, fuck you, fear, I'm not going to let you beat me, because I know also when I'm done with that mission and I tax you back, that piece that I'm going to feel that I conquered myself is going to be so amazing. The endorphins, the courage that's reinforced and built, is going to cycle back into me and give me more courage to step into the jet and do my freaking job as a fighter pilot, as a warrior, as a boxer, to say, oh, you think you're tough, well get in there, because the only time you're tested is when the left hook comes, or when the missiles come, or when you're having that panic attack. You're like, Okay, you think your courageous stuff. You think you got some courage here you go, buddy, you think you're tough in the ring, And so you're like, Okay, I could do this. So I if I'm coaching folks, say take these opportunities of dealing with fears and changes and discomfort as ways to build that resilience muscle, the callouses of character that only come because you made the choice to face those demons and came out the other side. Yeah, And so that's how resilience is built. It's not like this bullshit kind of oh you know, like there's this escaping the fear and then finding ways through it through something else, like like I said, like chocolate and coffee and dogs and nice nature walks and all that. Okay, it's like, expose yourself to it builds that resilience muscle. And I think that's what what people need to do instead of a lot of the snow flakes. In my opinion, you I wanted to get into the ring and just feel what it's like, because getting hit the first time is a lot different than two years later getting hit again. You're like, Okay, I've been there before. I know I can make it. Do That's that's your that's your total analogy in your life, right.

It's interesting the concept. You're right, I think I've never heard it said that way. And maybe like you call it distraction or what would you call it, Like it's your association disassociation. Yeah, like you're totally disassociating yourself with feelings and you're just just going in there. But I believe, like you know, resilience is only built when you expose yourself to the suffering in some way. You know. It's like it's like I say, pain leads to peace, and any athlete, especially you know this pain, the struggle getting in the ring and stuff like that, and going through it when you're done after a serious workout or getting your ass kicked or winning and stuff, it builds this sense of peace. It's like it's like you you feel good about yourself, You conquered yourself, You face your demons and went through it physiologically, meant et cetera. However, the resilience component, it's more like like the more you do it, the more you used to that feeling. So when you were first a couple of times you went you know, you know, stepped into the ring, it was a lot more difficult than the probably the last couple of times you went in because you're used to that fear, that anxiety. You trained, You built up that resilience muscle. So when the enemy comes and you're put in that situation, you're like, oh, I still maybe just as out of breath. I'm still freaking out in some way, but you're used to that and so resilient. The resilience muscle for me was built, and it's built for anybody who continuously steps into the ring, who continuously flies rejects when they're claustrophobic, who continuously gets on the phone call deals with their rejections and objections, who goes out there and puts them on the ledge, and they're maybe experiencing the same fear, but it's not as far into them. So if you're an athlete running running, running for the first time, freaking out, like you don't know how to handle like marathon runners know how to hit that state, or any athlete you know when you're at that state, heart rate and all that, you're in the third round and you know, it's like, and I've boxed before, and that is tough, like you are. I have such respect for boxers UFC fighters, it's such a higher level and so but they're like, I've been there, I know this feeling. I'm trained for it, I'm in shape, I'm prepared. I can work my way through this. So subconsciously and mentally, you're able to work through that, and so resilience to me is built not by oh, I'm gonna smell a rose or listen to the begs, or pet my freaking dog or take a nap and escape it. It's it's resilience has made because I'm continuously putting myself into unknown situations and I'm having that anxiety that physiological episodes that I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. And so when I wanted to the jet hundreds of times after dealing with my claustrophobia, I'm like, Okay, this sucks. Been there before. I recognize the feeling. I'm breathing through it. I'm going through my exercise to deal with that. I'm tapping into my team. I'm saying, fuck you, fear, I'm not going to let you beat me, because I know also when I'm done with that mission and I tax you back, that piece that I'm going to feel that I conquered myself is going to be so amazing. The endorphins, the courage that's reinforced and built, is going to cycle back into me and give me more courage to step into the jet and do my freaking job as a fighter pilot, as a warrior, as a boxer, to say, oh, you think you're tough, well get in there, because the only time you're tested is when the left hook comes, or when the missiles come, or when you're having that panic attack. You're like, Okay, you think your courageous stuff. You think you got some courage here you go, buddy, you think you're tough in the ring, And so you're like, Okay, I could do this. So I if I'm coaching folks, say take these opportunities of dealing with fears and changes and discomfort as ways to build that resilience muscle, the callouses of character that only come because you made the choice to face those demons and came out the other side. Yeah, And so that's how resilience is built. It's not like this bullshit kind of oh you know, like there's this escaping the fear and then finding ways through it through something else, like like I said, like chocolate and coffee and dogs and nice nature walks and all that. Okay, it's like, expose yourself to it builds that resilience muscle. And I think that's what what people need to do instead of a lot of the snow flakes. In my opinion, you I wanted to get into the ring and just feel what it's like, because getting hit the first time is a lot different than two years later getting hit again. You're like, Okay, I've been there before. I know I can make it. Do That's that's your that's your total analogy in your life, right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I remember in twenty nine and a few years off and I went back to do fighting again. Actually I just went back to train, and then, of course, as is always the way, in no time, that turned into jumping in for a fight pretty quickly, and the I was having I've done a lot of therapy on feeling, emotions and things, and I remember thinking, shit, I've changed so much as a human throughout through this psychologically that I just can't help. But wonder how that's because I knew that everything. You can't change something in the ring and not change it out of the ring, and vice versa. So I changed stuff out of it. I was like, who's she going to be? Who's she going to be when she gets hit? Who's she going to be when she fights? And I remember having so much more awareness on looking after myself, you know, I was like, I still want to sell the hunger for Wick to win, but not at this cost of just reckless getting pummeled. And so I found myself struggling more with the defensive side of like I'd just walk into anything before that and wouldn't feel it. I was feeling it now. And I remember the one this one day was sparring the boys, and they hit so damn hard. It was like getting hit by a brick. I was like far out and one of.

I remember in twenty nine and a few years off and I went back to do fighting again. Actually I just went back to train, and then, of course, as is always the way, in no time, that turned into jumping in for a fight pretty quickly, and the I was having I've done a lot of therapy on feeling, emotions and things, and I remember thinking, shit, I've changed so much as a human throughout through this psychologically that I just can't help. But wonder how that's because I knew that everything. You can't change something in the ring and not change it out of the ring, and vice versa. So I changed stuff out of it. I was like, who's she going to be? Who's she going to be when she gets hit? Who's she going to be when she fights? And I remember having so much more awareness on looking after myself, you know, I was like, I still want to sell the hunger for Wick to win, but not at this cost of just reckless getting pummeled. And so I found myself struggling more with the defensive side of like I'd just walk into anything before that and wouldn't feel it. I was feeling it now. And I remember the one this one day was sparring the boys, and they hit so damn hard. It was like getting hit by a brick. I was like far out and one of.

The guys he cracked me.

The guys he cracked me.

But I stayed in and I because I just kept I'd get in and then I'd get hit, and then I'd end up. I couldn't stay in there, and it was so frustrating. You would know the feeling like you I have this plan, but then my nervous system does something else when I'm in there, I'm like, you know, that's the art of boxing, is overcoming that, overriding those primal instincts. And I stayed in there. I cracked him with some ripping shots. My eye blew up immediately. I blood around you my face. I got out of the ring like I just won a bloody national title. I was.

But I stayed in and I because I just kept I'd get in and then I'd get hit, and then I'd end up. I couldn't stay in there, and it was so frustrating. You would know the feeling like you I have this plan, but then my nervous system does something else when I'm in there, I'm like, you know, that's the art of boxing, is overcoming that, overriding those primal instincts. And I stayed in there. I cracked him with some ripping shots. My eye blew up immediately. I blood around you my face. I got out of the ring like I just won a bloody national title. I was.

I just looked at my coach I'm like, you don't even have to tell me that's good.

I just looked at my coach I'm like, you don't even have to tell me that's good.

And I'm thinking that's funny because you're the one with you cut on your eye and your face is blown up. But it was that I knew that I had just broken through a barrier of staying in when everything in my body kept taking me out of there. And it's it's just so interesting. It's the perception of whether you're winning and losing really as opposed to what other people might see.

And I'm thinking that's funny because you're the one with you cut on your eye and your face is blown up. But it was that I knew that I had just broken through a barrier of staying in when everything in my body kept taking me out of there. And it's it's just so interesting. It's the perception of whether you're winning and losing really as opposed to what other people might see.

And that's beast if your experience right and your mindset, your mature right and so. And it's also training too, right, Like when you're training and you're putting yourself into those precarious situations and being willing to take those hits and finding ways to deal with it, you're exposed to that those hits before, and then you're like, Okay, how am I going to stay in there? How am I going to do it? Like it's not as feign to you once again, right, So you're constantly in the ring, dealing with dealing with you're growing your mature and you have a different contact set, you're breaking your barriers. But I think part of also coincident with that is the fact that like your competence was built by the hours and hours of training and preparation before you stepped into the ring for that fight. And so a lot of people have fear and lack resilience because they're not choosing to put in the time. They're not building the competence that there's a byproduct of their preparation, knowing their tools, good sleep, good nutrition, imagining how you're going to deal with these situations. Right, So that's what training does. So if I'm coaching anybody dealing with anxieties and stuff like that, it's like, you got to have your plan and keep trying it and feel the fear, go through those panic attacks, get knocked down, get knocked down, whatever you need to do. I'm kind of mixing analogies here with us. But then that builds up the confidence that builds the resilience muscle. So you just can't wing it. So rehearsing it and practicing it, using the tools. So for me dealing with my claustrophobia, you know, you know, reading up on it, make sure I had good I had good rest. Part of it is focusing on, you know, the why before you fly, the meaning to your mission, like For me, it was like, what is it that I Why do I want to get through this? And what can I teach someone through my example and my suffering. So I was single at the time, and I had a couple of nieces and nephews that I loved a lot. But I would also think, I want to be a father one day. I've got a fourteen year old son now, But I'm like, what would I tell my son when he's thirteen dealing with all sort of clientis and in the hospital with morphine and blood transfusions that he had like just three or four months ago. Hey Dad, Hey, hey son? You know what I face my fears. I you know, when I was a finer pile, I was in combat and I quit. I couldn't do it, and I had costs aphobing and it was miserable and panicky and stuff, and I quit. Son, Or can I tell him that I stayed in that jet and that I went through the pain and I and it's not as hard as you may think. And the lessons you're going to learn by suffering through this and getting on the other side is going to be a gift for somebody in the future. It's going to help build that muscle when you're dealing with a breakup or trying to become a great soccer player, or god forbid, other things that you're going to happen as you as you mature in age. And so the example that we set through our bring through our pain in an honorable way is how we can going through that is tapping into that example that more altruistic suffering that we have to truly make a difference in people's lives. But you can't get there unless you have a true north star of that conversation and who you're doing this, form, why you're doing it, what kind of person or an example do you want to be? This is higher level thinking. You just can't think about it on the fly. You got to think through it beforehand. And so I would think about these things before I flew and say I'm not going to be a pussy intern and battle out. I'm a Jew. I grew up in New York. A lot of my family members and history died in the Holocaust. I would think before I flew, Tiffany, you're up there going on a mission. You're going to deal with your claus phobian panic and fear and you're probably not going to get shot at. A couple of guys got shot down. It was pretty intense, but it's likely that you're going to make at home. You're going to be in this cush jet. You got a little snack there. Think about the guys, you know, Think about the guys who were trying to save Auschwitz and Dachau, who were going there putting their lives on the line, not to take out a fuel depot or getting money, but to save your relatives. What if they quit? How can you call yourself a warrior and a fighter pilot with these wings in your chest. If you're going to quit, where is the credibility? And so this ego came into play for me. It pushed me to a higher level thinking not just passion, but also responsibility. Responsibility. You got a freaking job to do. You have these rings, People are depending on you. You can't quit because others are going to suffer because of it. And for me that was a gift also that kept me in the jet. I am not quitting because others need me. I've got a responsibility ego, whatever it is, but responsibility that is more important than passion. Passionate responsibilit trum'sassion, because you're gonna have days where you're not passionate about it. You're gonna feel beaten down and miserable and suffering, and you want to quit. But until you tap it to the responsibility to who needs you, who you love in in a true love sense, true service sense, Dan, You're like, there's no way I'm quitting. And that's what I told my nephew who's going through Navy Seal training right now. Last week, he's starting his third week of buds Basing underwater demolition demolition training. This week. The end of his first week, my twin brother, who's his father, called me. He's like, Tyler wants to quit. He wants to quit, blah blah blah. Get on the phone. So I told my Navy Seal buddy, commander Badass, and we both got on the phone with him, and we're trying to break through and he already put it in this thing. He's like, I'm quitting. I'm done. He was leaving the program after a week. And this guy's a stud and I asked him, I said, hey, Tyler, what kind of person do you want to be? Where do you see yourself twenty years old, Why are you doing all this? Like? Who? Like what is driving you? Like? Where do you see yourself in the future? Is like, I want to have a family and be a great father. I'm like, I knew that's what you would say. And I said, imagine talking to your ten year old son who or your an eighteen year old daughter who just experienced a breakup or a pregnancy or is in a car accident or a burn victim or whatever, and says, and you're telling her or him that you went through this pain and you suffer, and you went through that, you went through the toughest physiological and mental training there could possibly be being going through a Navy seal. There's nothing more badass than that, other than Navy flying jets. But I would disagree because those guys are just on a totally different level. Imagine telling that having that conversation with you son, do you want to tell him that you quit the first week in buds or that you went through it and suffer because your physically can do it. Bro, you can do it. And so we finished that next week. He told my twin brother, He's like, I'm doing he texted, I say, and I'm loving him. I'm crushing it. I'm doing good right, and so he's got a different context. Doesn't mean he may not want to quit next week, doesn't mean something else is going to pop up. But you got to tap into that, you see. That's what those are the things that we need to really start thinking about deeper. That psychologically changes ourselves physiologically and gets us to suffer through it and subjugates the fear, subjugates the anxiety and pushes you through that fear, provided that you're in shape, that you've been there before, you're not winging it right. That's another part of it. I know I'm getting kind of off on some tangents here, but it's hard to go into these things because this isn't just about a fear of failure, right, or a fear of rejection, or even a fear of combat. You know, that was a very valid fear. People were getting shot at, shot down. The missiles weren't near as painful to me as having that panic attack at thirty five thousand feet over a rack with another three hours in front of me to go. And thank god I didn't have it an out. I was fully committed. I couldn't battle out, there's no way I would do it, And so that cockpit in some way kept me in there, saying, you better deal with this, You better freaking deal with this, because you're not quitting. Others need you. You're going to suffer through this and make it out the other side. And I would and I'd be like, I'd breathe through it, and I'm like, oh my god, I did it, and it passed, and then would come back a little bit, and then it the more I got in that carckpeit, the more I got in the ring, I'm like, you can't beat me.

And that's beast if your experience right and your mindset, your mature right and so. And it's also training too, right, Like when you're training and you're putting yourself into those precarious situations and being willing to take those hits and finding ways to deal with it, you're exposed to that those hits before, and then you're like, Okay, how am I going to stay in there? How am I going to do it? Like it's not as feign to you once again, right, So you're constantly in the ring, dealing with dealing with you're growing your mature and you have a different contact set, you're breaking your barriers. But I think part of also coincident with that is the fact that like your competence was built by the hours and hours of training and preparation before you stepped into the ring for that fight. And so a lot of people have fear and lack resilience because they're not choosing to put in the time. They're not building the competence that there's a byproduct of their preparation, knowing their tools, good sleep, good nutrition, imagining how you're going to deal with these situations. Right, So that's what training does. So if I'm coaching anybody dealing with anxieties and stuff like that, it's like, you got to have your plan and keep trying it and feel the fear, go through those panic attacks, get knocked down, get knocked down, whatever you need to do. I'm kind of mixing analogies here with us. But then that builds up the confidence that builds the resilience muscle. So you just can't wing it. So rehearsing it and practicing it, using the tools. So for me dealing with my claustrophobia, you know, you know, reading up on it, make sure I had good I had good rest. Part of it is focusing on, you know, the why before you fly, the meaning to your mission, like For me, it was like, what is it that I Why do I want to get through this? And what can I teach someone through my example and my suffering. So I was single at the time, and I had a couple of nieces and nephews that I loved a lot. But I would also think, I want to be a father one day. I've got a fourteen year old son now, But I'm like, what would I tell my son when he's thirteen dealing with all sort of clientis and in the hospital with morphine and blood transfusions that he had like just three or four months ago. Hey Dad, Hey, hey son? You know what I face my fears. I you know, when I was a finer pile, I was in combat and I quit. I couldn't do it, and I had costs aphobing and it was miserable and panicky and stuff, and I quit. Son, Or can I tell him that I stayed in that jet and that I went through the pain and I and it's not as hard as you may think. And the lessons you're going to learn by suffering through this and getting on the other side is going to be a gift for somebody in the future. It's going to help build that muscle when you're dealing with a breakup or trying to become a great soccer player, or god forbid, other things that you're going to happen as you as you mature in age. And so the example that we set through our bring through our pain in an honorable way is how we can going through that is tapping into that example that more altruistic suffering that we have to truly make a difference in people's lives. But you can't get there unless you have a true north star of that conversation and who you're doing this, form, why you're doing it, what kind of person or an example do you want to be? This is higher level thinking. You just can't think about it on the fly. You got to think through it beforehand. And so I would think about these things before I flew and say I'm not going to be a pussy intern and battle out. I'm a Jew. I grew up in New York. A lot of my family members and history died in the Holocaust. I would think before I flew, Tiffany, you're up there going on a mission. You're going to deal with your claus phobian panic and fear and you're probably not going to get shot at. A couple of guys got shot down. It was pretty intense, but it's likely that you're going to make at home. You're going to be in this cush jet. You got a little snack there. Think about the guys, you know, Think about the guys who were trying to save Auschwitz and Dachau, who were going there putting their lives on the line, not to take out a fuel depot or getting money, but to save your relatives. What if they quit? How can you call yourself a warrior and a fighter pilot with these wings in your chest. If you're going to quit, where is the credibility? And so this ego came into play for me. It pushed me to a higher level thinking not just passion, but also responsibility. Responsibility. You got a freaking job to do. You have these rings, People are depending on you. You can't quit because others are going to suffer because of it. And for me that was a gift also that kept me in the jet. I am not quitting because others need me. I've got a responsibility ego, whatever it is, but responsibility that is more important than passion. Passionate responsibilit trum'sassion, because you're gonna have days where you're not passionate about it. You're gonna feel beaten down and miserable and suffering, and you want to quit. But until you tap it to the responsibility to who needs you, who you love in in a true love sense, true service sense, Dan, You're like, there's no way I'm quitting. And that's what I told my nephew who's going through Navy Seal training right now. Last week, he's starting his third week of buds Basing underwater demolition demolition training. This week. The end of his first week, my twin brother, who's his father, called me. He's like, Tyler wants to quit. He wants to quit, blah blah blah. Get on the phone. So I told my Navy Seal buddy, commander Badass, and we both got on the phone with him, and we're trying to break through and he already put it in this thing. He's like, I'm quitting. I'm done. He was leaving the program after a week. And this guy's a stud and I asked him, I said, hey, Tyler, what kind of person do you want to be? Where do you see yourself twenty years old, Why are you doing all this? Like? Who? Like what is driving you? Like? Where do you see yourself in the future? Is like, I want to have a family and be a great father. I'm like, I knew that's what you would say. And I said, imagine talking to your ten year old son who or your an eighteen year old daughter who just experienced a breakup or a pregnancy or is in a car accident or a burn victim or whatever, and says, and you're telling her or him that you went through this pain and you suffer, and you went through that, you went through the toughest physiological and mental training there could possibly be being going through a Navy seal. There's nothing more badass than that, other than Navy flying jets. But I would disagree because those guys are just on a totally different level. Imagine telling that having that conversation with you son, do you want to tell him that you quit the first week in buds or that you went through it and suffer because your physically can do it. Bro, you can do it. And so we finished that next week. He told my twin brother, He's like, I'm doing he texted, I say, and I'm loving him. I'm crushing it. I'm doing good right, and so he's got a different context. Doesn't mean he may not want to quit next week, doesn't mean something else is going to pop up. But you got to tap into that, you see. That's what those are the things that we need to really start thinking about deeper. That psychologically changes ourselves physiologically and gets us to suffer through it and subjugates the fear, subjugates the anxiety and pushes you through that fear, provided that you're in shape, that you've been there before, you're not winging it right. That's another part of it. I know I'm getting kind of off on some tangents here, but it's hard to go into these things because this isn't just about a fear of failure, right, or a fear of rejection, or even a fear of combat. You know, that was a very valid fear. People were getting shot at, shot down. The missiles weren't near as painful to me as having that panic attack at thirty five thousand feet over a rack with another three hours in front of me to go. And thank god I didn't have it an out. I was fully committed. I couldn't battle out, there's no way I would do it, And so that cockpit in some way kept me in there, saying, you better deal with this, You better freaking deal with this, because you're not quitting. Others need you. You're going to suffer through this and make it out the other side. And I would and I'd be like, I'd breathe through it, and I'm like, oh my god, I did it, and it passed, and then would come back a little bit, and then it the more I got in that carckpeit, the more I got in the ring, I'm like, you can't beat me.

Yeah. I think there's such a lesson. Just as you were talking about suffering, and I was just thinking that it's such a valuable lesson in learning how to suffer. And I think the idea of finding a way to experience a version of suffering for something that you have absolute passion for, and for me, I stumbled across it. I said yes to this thing that I didn't realize is going to be anywhere near as terrifying as it was. I had to do it because I had big mouth, and I bloody well told everyone. So I was stuck in it. But in the middle of that on the other side of the suffering, there was a liberation I'd never felt before. But in the middle of it as well, nothing else that popped up in life, like you have this thing, this yardstick of suffering, and it's like, that's not as hard as training was last week, And I loved that. I didn't love it at the time, but I loved afterwards so much that how much I.

Yeah. I think there's such a lesson. Just as you were talking about suffering, and I was just thinking that it's such a valuable lesson in learning how to suffer. And I think the idea of finding a way to experience a version of suffering for something that you have absolute passion for, and for me, I stumbled across it. I said yes to this thing that I didn't realize is going to be anywhere near as terrifying as it was. I had to do it because I had big mouth, and I bloody well told everyone. So I was stuck in it. But in the middle of that on the other side of the suffering, there was a liberation I'd never felt before. But in the middle of it as well, nothing else that popped up in life, like you have this thing, this yardstick of suffering, and it's like, that's not as hard as training was last week, And I loved that. I didn't love it at the time, but I loved afterwards so much that how much I.

Didn't love it disappeared.

Didn't love it disappeared.

The day of my fight, I woke up and it all hit me, and I said I'd to pick my mom up for the airport she come to watch her darling door to get punched in the face, and picked her up, and I was socially inept all day. I was so riddled with what I now know was anxiety that I couldn't converse.