Queen of the ConProfessional shoplifter 'Susan' can make as much as $1K a day driving from store to store stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars in merchandise for the Michelle Mack's of the world.
But could Susan actually be a victim of human trafficking?
Previously on Queen of the con.
So this is the craigslisad here yep okay looking to interview female shoplifters about why they do it and how they do it.
And that female shoplifter that I uncover is really plugged into the whole southern California shoplifting scene.
You just get a back full of stuff, you know, like that could be like one thousand dollars a day, So you can.
Make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting a.
Couple of years ago, but now you can probably make like maybe like five hundred dollars a day.
But before Susan gets into actual shoplifting, she figures out a clever way to make thousands of dollars by just hanging outside big box stores. Wow, you just blew my mind. I never knew that was a fit. I mean, technically it's not shoplifting and anyone can do it and get a lot of cash, but it's still illegal.
We met this kid who was like homeless and he had no idea how to make money, and so we told him about that, and we blew his mind too, and we're like we're like yeah, he's like no, he's like I can make money like this.
I was like, yeah, I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, The California Girls, Episode three, Reverse Shopping.
We hate Lost Prevention, Oh my god, because Lost Prevention they think that they're calm and they treat people like that with such like disrespect. If they catch us on a store, they're like the worst people.
That's a woman we're calling Susan admitting she has Lost Prevention, those undercover security guard stores hired at cat shoplifters. Susan is not her real name, and that's not her real voice. We're disguising it to make her comfortable enough to talk to us. Right now, Susan is connecting with me on zoom from her cell phone as her shoplifter boyfriend, who you'll hear chime in every now, and then drives them both to meet up with one of their many fences. Susan herself has been a professional shoplifter for the past ten years, starting when she was just nineteen years old, which was about a year after her mother kicked her out of the house and she became homeless.
Have you been arrested, No, No, I've never been arrested for shoplifting?
Have you been busted shoplifting by anyone?
By Walmart?
And like Target? But like what they do is like have you caught by them? What they do is that it make you like sign like a paper, you know, like saying that you'll never come back from this location. But then like Walmart has like facial recognition, you know, and so like if you go into another Walmart, like they'll like start following you around because you're in their system, do you.
Know, so you're in Walmart's system? Yees. As for Target, I.
Really hadn't been caught from Target for since like twenty eighteen, you know. And I was like they're like, oh, have you ever been caught before? And I was like yeah. They're like, so you know the drill, you know, and they take a picture of you for facial recognition purposes, and then they tell you that you can never come back to this location. So they're like, when's the last time you got caught. I was like, like, I was like like a long time ago. I was like I really haven't even been getting in forth trouble, you know. And they're like, oh, well, They're like and so they pulled up what like a long time ago, like the last time I got caught. They pulled it up in their system and they're like, oh, and they told me exactly what I stole, you know, and.
I was like, yeah, I remember, you know. It was only worth like forty dollars like total, I think.
And then they let you go event right, how did that happen?
Yeah?
They make you sign a paper saying that you will never return to this location, and then they walk you right.
Out the door and they never call the cops.
No, no, because I hadn't stolen.
I really haven't stolen, like like I haven't gotten caught stealing, Like I really don't.
Like we don't really go to Target.
Because Target is like one of the things that like what do you how do you say? Yeah, they got like a thousand cameras and like they they've got like a team of like like their security system is like on fleek, so to.
Speak, good job Target. Let's give a shout out to Target. Do you wear masks or disguises or anything.
No, I've thought about it.
I've thought about wearing like a wig or something, because like I mean, like I'm blonde, and so it's like kind of like really easy to like track me through the store, but I don't.
I probably, but that's what I mean.
Like it's like it's like you can't really alter your face your facial structure, you know, yeah, but then it's super noticeable if you have a face basket in like a store where like you know, like during COVID, it was one thing, you know, like like COVID was like a golden era.
We would wear face masks everywhere, you know, and.
You could just steal up a storm and nobody knows who you are exactly. Susan never set out to be a shoplifter. That was never her goal in life. But she's been homeless a bunch of different times over the past ten years in Elisa Viejo, than in Sacramento, and most recently in the Los Angeles area. How long were you homeless in LA before you found a place to live.
We came down here.
December, and we were homeless up until I want to say, like April.
And were you living on the street, Were you living out of your car?
We were living out of our car until it got impounded.
Being homeless is really kind of a gateway to an onslaught of bad things, bad people, bad influences. I mean, if you're living on the street, your survival instincts kick in and your sense of right and wrong changes accordingly. Before Susan became a full time professional shoplifter, stealing stuff every day for all her fences. Remember of fence is someone like Michelle Mack, someone who buys the stuff shoplifters steal. So before Susan finds her first fence, she made a lot of money doing.
We would do like reverse shopping.
Where we would like get receipt like cash receipt like from Momart, and then you find the stuff in the store and then you like go and take the stuff in the store, and then you go and return it and then you get cast for it. But then that is like is like so tedious and so like like a lot of times like you can't find like, you know, good enough receipts, you know, like because like people don't use like their cash anymore. They use cards, you know, and so when you when they use cards, like you can't really get any any cash from them.
Where are you finding these cash receipts? Like people throw them in the garbage and you fish them out.
No, No, like they're like the like they'll be like like wandering around in parking lots, you know.
Like so people just throw their receipts away on the ground in the trash or whatever, and you're just searching that parking lot for those cash receipts.
Well, my boyfriend, so he would look like he would find the receipts and then I would like he would show them to me, and then I would go in the thwing and get them.
And then return it and get cash.
Yeah.
Yeah, wow, you just blew my mind. I never knew that was a thing. With the receipt thing. It's literally any cash receipt you find, you go and find that product in the store, and then you return it and get cash.
Like the best ones, Like the best receipts are like usually like diapers because those are expensive.
You know, never had a problem doing that, Like they never figure it out. They think you bought the thing, they give you the cash back. Done.
Well, So there's like open, there's there's a store like a Walmart, right, and they refuse to do cash returns like they like like they will not do cash returns. And it's funny because they had to get like Walmart's permission, like corporate Walmart's permission to like because like I know, I don't know if you like notice, but like when you go into a Walmart, they have like a sign behind like the customer service, and it says, you know, at this Walmart, we can do non receded returns, right, And so they had to get like corporate Walmart's permission to redo their sign that says that they will not do no receiped returns. And so like that's like like a known thing, you know, like if you're trying to do return like at Walmart, like you cannot go to the one like off.
Of among your circle. Everyone knows that, yeah, exactly. So Susan does this reverse shopping thing with cash receipts for a couple of years to get by in between shoplifting for herself. She's not doing it professionally at this point, She's just stealing stuff she needs to live on, like.
Grocery items, you know, like food. We walk out with like a cart furll of groceries. You know, that's like what we would do for ourselves. We had like no clothes, and so you know, we were like trying to get like anything that we needed or like from Target like we would steel. I would steel like a cooler because we were living out of our car for a little bit.
You know, how do you take a cooler out of target without them knowing?
Well, I would do like like I would swamp up our codes, so like say, there's like a cheap personal cooler for like ten dollars, you know, and then but the one that we want is like really sixty dollars.
They don't really know the difference between the the you know, whitch coolers, which as long as the the same brand.
Do you worry they're watching you do that in the store? Nobody really noticed.
You kind of got to like make sure that like like like because law promation will be like if you're in their system, they're going to be following you around to.
The store, so you have to make sure that you're like watching them.
But the way Susan gets drafted into becoming a professional shoplifter and actually moves into her fence's house is just insane. After the break, welcome back to Queen of the Khan. So at this point, Susan and her boyfriend are homeless, living out of their car, and overnight they'd park wherever a bunch of other homeless people are staying because when you're homeless, there's safety in numbers. You don't want to be sleeping anywhere by yourself. And in a very short time, Susan and her boyfriend start making friends with other homeless people.
We ran into these people that they were like, you know, if you could give us a ride, because they asked us for a ride down the street. You know, We're like, yeah, if you ever need a ride, you know, anywhere else, like let us know, you know. And so they told us like basically like I've got a fence.
And I need to.
Go to stores, like like a bunch of stores. They said that they would pay us good, you know, and that we wouldn't have to steal anything, that we would just have to like bring them there and then park in the parking lot and then just you know, drive away. They told us like would pay you like probably like one hundred dollars to two hundred dollars a day.
And so we were like all right.
So then when we saw what they were doing and then like like where they were going. At first we were taking them to a house to where they could sell their product to like this person, well that person the fence there got caught because of all the people, all the traffic coming.
To her house.
One of the people like that came to sell like the product, went to the wrong house with a bunch of products and so like they're like going up to this like strange like this like random people's house and they're like, yeah, I'm here to sell the product and they're like.
What product are you talking about?
So those people ended up calling the cop and that's how she got caught.
Wow, so it was a neighbor of hers. Yeah, yeah, that's sloppy, right. Yeah, so they're paying you a couple hundred dollars a day. At what point do you think, Ah, I'm gonna do what they're doing.
Well, so a friend of ours, the first time that we started driving around, they kind of like got like out of like shoplifting and like started dealing drugs. Because there was so much traffic at the fence's house, they weren't staying there, and so they asked us if, like if we needed a place to stay, and we were like, yeah, like that'd be really cool because the fence like she rents out like every room there, like, oh, she'll even rent out the garage per day, it's per day, So like so for.
One room, it's like fifty dollars a day.
It's like almost in laws quarters, and it's like and it's you get in by.
A code, you know, on the door.
And so a lot of people they'll just give her a product for payment, so they'll bring her like, say, you stay there like two days, you know, then.
You'll owe her one hundred dollars in product, you know.
And how long were you living with this fence?
How long are you saying there? Probably like a couple months.
And God, that doesn't seem very smart on her part, right to have all these shoplifters staying at her house.
Well, it really wasn't smart when she was having people bring her product there too, like to buy it off.
Them, like because that's what was happening.
And then and then but then she got caught, and so now she meets them like down the street. She really needs to find like a different like approach because like she'll meet people like in the same spot every day. So did she get a right did I've heard through other shoplifters that she's like out on like a million dollar bill.
Oh wow, God, I didn't know. Yeah, are you worried she's gonna like out you and give your name to them, or does she even know your real name?
I don't think that she even knows. Like she knows like who we are, like if she sees our face, but like in terms of like if we call her, like she gets so many phone calls a day, like and there's so many people who show up, Like we were waiting for her the other like the Knight that I emailed you, we were waiting for her. We had like maybe like two or three hundred dollars worth of stuff.
They really had a few thousand dollars worth of stuff that Defence was going to pay them two or three hundred dollars for. You see, Susan and other shoplifters talk about values based on what they get paid for the stuff they steal, and not on what the stuff is actually worth.
In the stores we were waiting for her, we had like maybe like two or three hundred dollars worth of stuff. We look around and there's like two or three different cars, you know, and then not to mention that how many people show up on foot. It's crazy. It's just crazy how many people show up. And you think that like she would be like a little bit smarter with like how she spaces out her buys or something.
You know, like or like just switch it up. And she always carries on like a lot of calf but people know not to fuck with her.
But that fence is clearly disorganized. But there's another fence. Susan works for a guy who runs his shoplifting criminal enterprise a lot like Michelle mack ran hers like a real fortune five hundred company.
He'll like send like an uber. He'll he you won't never meet him like in person. He'll send like an uber packaged like delivery person. So that way like you never have to be like face to face and like risk like your freedom, you know.
And you've never gone to his house. Nope, how do you sell him the stuff?
So we'll call him and we'll say, yeah, we have product for you. And so he'll send an uber like an uber delivery package person right to come pick up the package like with the products. And then when he receives the products, he'll call us. He'll go over each individual product so tell us like how much each thing is like worth and so on and so forth, and.
Then how will he pay you? Will he just Venmo.
You he'll either Venmo or cash app. A lot of times it's cash.
App cash ap Okay. Interesting. I mean, he sounds like he's going to be in the game a lot longer than this other lady. Right.
It's funny because he actually used to be a shoplister just like us, and so one day the person.
That was buying his product was going to go to jail and he.
She just kind of like handed over the keys to the castolic to him was like, keep it going. He's only been doing this for a couple of years and has already made like over a million.
Dollars in the bank.
He told you that, Yeah, yeah, I mean he's really he's really forthcoming.
The other thing that differentiates this guy, this extremely organized fence, from a lot of other fences Susan works for is that he sends her and all his shoplifters really detailed lists, as in color coded PDFs with columns for what he'll pay for each item.
I emailed you the list and if you wanted to just take a look at, I mean, it's eighty pages long. Like there's like everything from like oral be you know, whitening strips to you know, prenatal to wait, what like the diaper rash being you know, like like everything.
Oh my god. So this is like a PDF, color coded with yty five pages. Oh my god, volumeizing, Tonic, a lot of hair.
Products, everything, everything.
I'm posting screen grabs of this list from Susan's fence at Queen of the Khan on Instagram so you can see just how insanely corporate it looks. That column on the left is the price they pay you for.
It, exactly. Yes, So like.
Claren's Restorative day cream, they'll pay you thirty five dollars to steal that Claton Clareiton's expensive. They'll pay you six dollars for a Claiton chewable great flavor kids. Yep, wow, God, this list it seems so professional, right, and.
That's that's like the most professional like list like that we've seen, Like, and it's very straightforward and that's what we like, you know.
Yeah, color coordinated. It's very straightforward.
Whereas like another lady will just send us like pictures like like literally like like take a picture or something and then send it to us picture after picture after the picture, you know, and like we'll have to ask her, okay, so how much for this? And like she'll tell us one price one day, and then the next day it'll go down, you know, and we're like, well happened yesterday it was twenty four and now it's twenty two.
Yeah, wow, I'm still I'm still scrolling mucinext. They'll pay you five dollars when you're filling the items on this list. Are you trying to get everything or you're just trying to get the high dollar things?
It's like whatever really that you can get, like because some stores, like most stores up for Orange County areas, they'll have like all the advil and all the titleal and.
Even sometimes like some of the toothpastes like.
Locked up, you know, so where you have to like get like a representative or like an employee to come and unlock it, like and then then they'll walk it up to like the rent or whatever. Down in South County, you know, they're like they're it's not locked up down there, you know, like in the nicer areas of town, like it's nothing locked up like the more expensive items like Costco and Sam's Club, those like those usually.
Have like the higher priced items.
So I see here on the list they'll pay you three hundred and fifty eight dollars to steal a two ME Alpha three extended trip four wheeled packing suitcase.
Yeah.
Have you stolen one of those?
No, not yet.
That's the most expensive thing that you steal.
Normally, it's like a skin cream or a skin elixir from Nordstrum.
Skin Caviar, Lukes pre moisturizer. It's in a blue bottle.
Right, yes, yes, exactly, and I.
See one for six hundred dollars.
Yeah.
Yeah, So that's like like it depends on like what like which one you get.
But I mean, like.
We'll just get any of them, and when we hit Nordstrums, we have to like come up with like a plan, you know, because like we'll have like a we'll have someone like cause a distraction or like like start asking the people, you know, like like questions so that like they're kind of distracted and then and then someone else will come in and get all the bottles.
Wow, because if it's six hundred dollars a bottle, that's a lot of money quick.
Yeah, And they don't have but they don't like keep like a bunch of them out at the same time because they're smart but I mean we'll get like probably two or three at the same time.
Susan and her boyfriend make thousands of dollars shoplifting, but there's an annoyingly practical reason they still can't afford their own apartment after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Con. I have no doubt that if Michelle Mack had not been arrested, Susan, with all her shoplifting skills, would have probably crossed paths with her. But Michelle Mack got arrested and shut down back in December, right when Susan moved to southern California.
No, I've never heard of Michelle Mack, but we have a fence. She will buy anything, anything and everything like designer your liftis, you know, like like by the bundle.
Or anything like Like she'll buy like like one hundred dollars bottles of wine, you know, like Louis Vuitton.
She'll buy off you Do you ever go to like Sephora.
Oh yeah, yeah, like sport because they have the deor lipstics there and they're like and they have them, they stock.
Them up there, man.
Wow.
And they're always right by the door. They're always right next to the exit.
And what's your trick to stealing lipsticks from Sephora.
It's easier to.
Go in with like a like a big coat on, because like then you can just like grab like a handful of them at a time and then just like kind of like put them in your pockets.
But the disorienting thing about talking to this professional criminal is just how nice and clearly intelligent she is. For people listening who are asking the question, well, why don't you guys just get jobs and stop shoplifting? What would you tell them?
So when we got stuck down here, I had an ID. I ended up losing that ID.
And so for us to like just get like enough money like because like we were having to pay for hotel like every night, you know, if we wanted a shower like whatever, and so like to have enough money like to like you know, live off of and then to have an extra amount to like go get an ID with because like I mean, ideas are like how much like forty dollars now?
Yeah, I mean you got to pay the fees. Yeah, that's the thing you have to realize if you're homeless and you get your hands in a few thousand dollars from shoplifting, it's not nearly enough to get an apartment because you'd usually need a check for the first month's rent, the last month's rent, and a security deposit. Plus you'd need proof of employment. So when Susan and her boyfriend get money from shoplifting, they spend it on motels and hotels so they can sleep in an actual bed at night and have a roof over their heads. And that cost adds up fast, so they're in this perpetual suite of stealing enough to afford a motel or hotel to stay in and afford food to eat in the meantime. Susan says she's always looking for a real job. I mean that's how she found my Craigslist post in the gigs offered section. She was looking for a job.
Yeah, I mean, like I keep sending out like I have a resume, you know, I made a really good resume, and I mean, like I've had jobs in the past. It's usually not hard for me to get a job, but like lately around here, like the jobs I've had in the past are like, you know, cashier jobs, like working at like food barista's.
You know, Susan's not having a lot of success on the job front, but she recently reconnected with her grandmother and certain members of her family. Her grandmother is actually letting Susan and her boyfriend live with her. Now, what's your dream? What's your five year plan? Five years from now? Where do you want to be, if you could be anywhere, if you could be doing anything five years from now, what's your dream?
My dream is too.
The reason I moved with my grandma's because she she worries about me, you know, and she wants to make sure that when she's gone that I can be self supporting and not have to like rely upon really anybody, you know in my life. And I want to do the same thing because like my cousin had just graduated from you know, college recently, and so really like it's like it was kind of like an inspiration and for me to get back into school, you know, like and so hopefully so in five years I will be graduating.
You know, I really do listen, and I mean this sincerely. I am so moved talking to you. You've really changed my mind about a lot of things. And I you know, I think you're an amazing person. I think you're super smart. I think if you apply yourself and you get that degree, I think you have a super bright future ahead of you. You need to get into loss prevention. If I was the head of Target or the head of Nordstrums, I would hire you. I would be like, let me pay you one hundred and fifty grand a year to help our people cut down on retail theft. Like who better than you?
Thank you?
Like really, yeah, because you've learned all these tricks, like you could help them and be it live an honest living. Yeah, I'm worried about you now a matter of time before the cars question.
If you're trying to like stay on that straight and narrow you know, like the you know, not not do this like whenever we need money, just because also because like you know, defence is is pretty close to getting caught, you know, and like and if we like, if we keep selling to her, then we're probably gonna get caught red handed.
You know.
I hope and pray you go on the straight and narrow, you get your degree. I hope and pray you get into loss prevention and get a get a good job. And because you know this is not going to end, well, look what happens. Everyone gets arrested, everyone goes to jail. I hope you take this advice. I hope you get on that track. And you know, because I feel like you're you're coasting close to the edge any day that yeah, you're under arrest for stealing a six hundred dollars moisturizer from Norse Drums exactly.
Yeah, especially with facial recognition. We're preparing, you know, like we're like, I don't want to do this for like ever, Like it means to an end, you know, it means to to just like get get the money that you need like for the time being. I mean, yeah, you're either gonna get caught and due the time, or you're gonna stop and get a natural job, you know.
And you know, it breaks my heart that you kind of got abandoned by your mother and your father died, and you know, you haven't had any like parental advice or supervision or guidance the past few years. But let me tell you this. I know schools hard and college can be hard, but I've talked to you more than an hour now. You are super smart. There's nothing you can't figure out. So whatever class you're taking in college, just know that there's a way through it. You can ace the class. You did a great job. Thanks for being so honest and forthcoming. I really appreciate it.
Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that.
Not gonna lie. Getting to know professional shoplifter Susan has really affected me as I try to explain to my buddy Evan Goldstein.
What's wrong.
It's just you ever go into a situation thinking one thing to realize it's something else, entirely.
My first marriage. But what are you talking about? What do you mean?
So when I started this season the Queen of the Cohn about shoplifters. Shoplifters were like these evil people destroying society. I mean, I spent a couple hours talking to the shoplifter and honestly, it just broke my heart. It broke my heart.
What what do you mean?
I mean? This woman got kicked out of the house when she was eighteen. Her dad died of cancer. Her mom didn't like her and took all the money. The dad left and sold the house and has been bike riding all over the world with a thousand dollars bicycle. She's in Africa now biking. Like kicked the daughter out of the house, at eighteen she was homeless, Like this woman was homeless at eighteen, and you know what would have become of you? Like, I know your parents. They are nice, loving, kind people who have always supported you. Still to this day, they kind of support you. They look after your kids when you guys need date night. Yeah, like your parents are always there. What would have become of you? Where would you be today if you got kicked out of the house at eighteen?
I couldn't even imagine it.
I can tell you where you wouldn't be. You wouldn't be executive producing William Shatner's show, Yeah, and wouldn't be doing that.
Yeah, where the fuck would I be?
Well, I mean you don't know, you know, it's like there but for the grace of God go both of us. And this poor girl got kicked out of the house at eighteen, and she fell in literally with the wrong crowd. She was homeless. She fell in with other homeless and that's where she learned how to shoplift for money.
Yeah, well it's you know, it's survival.
It's survival.
Like you got to eat, you fundamentally need to eat.
And then imagine your morals, your sense of right and wrong, what happens.
To that, Oh, it would be so skewed because.
It's kind of like prison. There are different rules in prison. There are different rules when you're homeless.
Yeah, because you have to survive. You have to do what you need to do to get by, and you don't have a roof over your head. What do you have to lose? You have nothing to.
Lose, nothing to lose. Sorry to be such a downer here, but it just seems to me that a lot of these quote professional shoplifters are really living hand to mouth. They're not making millions of dollars selling all their stolen stuff on Amazon like Michelle Mack was. They're the bottom feeders in this relationship. And as with any relationship, it's the one with the money who makes all the rules. It's the one with the money that has the upper hand. It's the one with the money that has all the control. What Michelle Mack was doing was human trafficking. What Sergeant Jordan Marakian again explaining a concept I never even thought to consider.
Yeah, if you really think about it, right, the definition of human trafficking is you're basically exploiting a human being and forcing them, coercing them or paying them to do a service for ill gotten gains, for illegal activity, human trafficking.
If you're enjoying Queen of the con tell someone click that share button and send this podcast to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Cohn The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zach Hirsch, edited and mixed by Zach Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam mastered by Justin Longerbean legal counsel for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard
