Previously on Queen of the Con. Hey, Michelle, my name's Jonathan.

Previously on Queen of the Con. Hey, Michelle, my name's Jonathan.

I'm with the Queen of the Con podcast.

I'm with the Queen of the Con podcast.

I just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff that's going on. I mean, the criminal case against Michelle Mack seems really strong.

I just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff that's going on. I mean, the criminal case against Michelle Mack seems really strong.

Obviously, anything can happen. She's innocent until proven guilty. She'll have her day in court if she wants it. But this is going to be a very difficult case for.

Obviously, anything can happen. She's innocent until proven guilty. She'll have her day in court if she wants it. But this is going to be a very difficult case for.

Her, and it's no secret that lawyers are expensive. So Michelle Mack puts her southern California mansion up for sale and hires a drone photographer to shoot it. But when he gets to her place.

Her, and it's no secret that lawyers are expensive. So Michelle Mack puts her southern California mansion up for sale and hires a drone photographer to shoot it. But when he gets to her place.

There seemed to be a lot of tension in the air, and that was definitely something that I con sense. I thought, you know, possibly it's a divorce situation.

There seemed to be a lot of tension in the air, and that was definitely something that I con sense. I thought, you know, possibly it's a divorce situation.

I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, The California Girls, Episode six. You look like a Lebanese jigglow.

I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, The California Girls, Episode six. You look like a Lebanese jigglow.

So I was called out by a real estate agent to shoot a beautiful.

So I was called out by a real estate agent to shoot a beautiful.

House in Bonsel, California.

House in Bonsel, California.

And this house was amazing. I mean, it was truly, truly beautiful.

And this house was amazing. I mean, it was truly, truly beautiful.

That's Greg Vogel, a southern California real estate photographer who has his own company, Greg Vogel Photography and creates the most beautiful videos of high end homes I've ever seen. I mean, the video he made of Michelle Max's mansion is just next level impressive workman. It looked like a sequel to The Godfather, very sinmatic.

That's Greg Vogel, a southern California real estate photographer who has his own company, Greg Vogel Photography and creates the most beautiful videos of high end homes I've ever seen. I mean, the video he made of Michelle Max's mansion is just next level impressive workman. It looked like a sequel to The Godfather, very sinmatic.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I love the way you edited to the music to the bead and you got all these sleeping panoramic shots of the vistas and the house and the vineyard and the chapel and the rooms.

I love the way you edited to the music to the bead and you got all these sleeping panoramic shots of the vistas and the house and the vineyard and the chapel and the rooms.

My god, bravo, thank you, thank you very much.

My god, bravo, thank you, thank you very much.

I'm posting the video Greg made of Michelle Mack's opulent Tuscan style mansion at Queen of the KHN on Instagram so you can see what I'm talking about. It's just spectacular. Come to find out, it was actually the realtor that the mansion was listed with who had reached out to Greg to make that video. Did the realtor tell you anything about Michelle Mack and her husband Kenneth before you got there?

I'm posting the video Greg made of Michelle Mack's opulent Tuscan style mansion at Queen of the KHN on Instagram so you can see what I'm talking about. It's just spectacular. Come to find out, it was actually the realtor that the mansion was listed with who had reached out to Greg to make that video. Did the realtor tell you anything about Michelle Mack and her husband Kenneth before you got there?

No, And I'll tell you I don't believe the realtor new gotcha at the time we shot the house, I don't think the realtor even knew what was going on.

No, And I'll tell you I don't believe the realtor new gotcha at the time we shot the house, I don't think the realtor even knew what was going on.

And you come to find out what was going on? How'd you find out?

And you come to find out what was going on? How'd you find out?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I think well, one of the things that this video seemed to be getting a little more action, which I thought was pretty cool, little more views then normal. And then somebody I don't remember as a friend or somebody sent me a link to you know, the Cali Girl shoplifting thing.

I think well, one of the things that this video seemed to be getting a little more action, which I thought was pretty cool, little more views then normal. And then somebody I don't remember as a friend or somebody sent me a link to you know, the Cali Girl shoplifting thing.

Michelle Mack, who, according to serge warrants, lives at this Bonsel home, is behind a nationwide shoplifting ring that target and was just.

Michelle Mack, who, according to serge warrants, lives at this Bonsel home, is behind a nationwide shoplifting ring that target and was just.

Blown away, like Holy moly. I couldn't believe that I had actually been there. And then it sort of, you know, made the tension that we were feeling a little more understandable.

Blown away, like Holy moly. I couldn't believe that I had actually been there. And then it sort of, you know, made the tension that we were feeling a little more understandable.

It kind of made sense what you were walking into, given what's going on.

It kind of made sense what you were walking into, given what's going on.

It just it was everything seemed to be very short.

It just it was everything seemed to be very short.

You know, I didn't really see them interacting a lot. I probably spent more time with him because you know, he kind of showed me around the grounds and you know, it took me to the top.

You know, I didn't really see them interacting a lot. I probably spent more time with him because you know, he kind of showed me around the grounds and you know, it took me to the top.

Of the vineyard to fly the drone.

Of the vineyard to fly the drone.

The husband had told.

The husband had told.

Me that they had a contract with the vintner who took their grades and would supply them with cases of wine.

Me that they had a contract with the vintner who took their grades and would supply them with cases of wine.

And then all of a sudden, in the middle of our conversation, Greg Vogel drops this on me.

And then all of a sudden, in the middle of our conversation, Greg Vogel drops this on me.

Funny enough, the guy I was sitting next to at lunch when you made the first call, and I kind of told him what was up. His daughter is a manager at support.

Funny enough, the guy I was sitting next to at lunch when you made the first call, and I kind of told him what was up. His daughter is a manager at support.

In San Diego.

In San Diego.

Yeah, and I think he seemed to mention that she had some part in helping.

Yeah, and I think he seemed to mention that she had some part in helping.

With this, as in helping with the bust of the Michelle Mack shoplifting ring.

With this, as in helping with the bust of the Michelle Mack shoplifting ring.

And if that was something that might be interesting to you, I would see about getting some contact info for you.

And if that was something that might be interesting to you, I would see about getting some contact info for you.

Oh hell yeah, I would love to talk to her.

Oh hell yeah, I would love to talk to her.

Okay, Okay.

Okay, Okay.

Sadly she didn't want to talk to me, which ninety percent of the time is actually the case I've learned over the years with victims of cons or witnesses of cons especially if it's say the manager of a Sephora, they just don't want to talk publicly about it to anyone ever.

Sadly she didn't want to talk to me, which ninety percent of the time is actually the case I've learned over the years with victims of cons or witnesses of cons especially if it's say the manager of a Sephora, they just don't want to talk publicly about it to anyone ever.

Holy mackerel, you know, I can imagine.

Holy mackerel, you know, I can imagine.

As for Michelle max Tuscan style mansion.

As for Michelle max Tuscan style mansion.

They brought in Stone Brown Sicily to do some of the stone work on the exterior.

They brought in Stone Brown Sicily to do some of the stone work on the exterior.

That's San Diego realtor Austin Glass with AEG real.

That's San Diego realtor Austin Glass with AEG real.

Estate right, daughter's initials Andy and Elliott AW.

Estate right, daughter's initials Andy and Elliott AW.

He's working in Houston now, but southern California is still his specialty.

He's working in Houston now, but southern California is still his specialty.

When I moved, I kept all my relationships and agents and still have a few partners in pretty much every single county in California.

When I moved, I kept all my relationships and agents and still have a few partners in pretty much every single county in California.

And Michelle Max's mansion in San Diego County has been on the market in some form or another for nearly six months as of June twenty twenty four, and yeah, it has not sold. Keep in mind she's been out free as a bird on one hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond since February.

And Michelle Max's mansion in San Diego County has been on the market in some form or another for nearly six months as of June twenty twenty four, and yeah, it has not sold. Keep in mind she's been out free as a bird on one hundred and fifty thousand dollars bond since February.

As an agent looking at any listing, what I saw looks like someone that desperately needs to get a property sold. And the way that I kind of identified that they originally listed it in February twenty four for three point one million, and normally you don't hit a price drop for a while, weeks or months. They hit a price drop to two million, nine hundred and fifty in four days. That's not something you generally see. Then four days after that they dropped it again to two million, seven hundred and fifty thousand, and then removed the listing about thirty days later. So went through these rapid price drops, removed the listing, and then put it back on the market to make it look kind of like a fresh listing for two million, seven hundred and fifty and two months after that it was put on hold, not taking off the market.

As an agent looking at any listing, what I saw looks like someone that desperately needs to get a property sold. And the way that I kind of identified that they originally listed it in February twenty four for three point one million, and normally you don't hit a price drop for a while, weeks or months. They hit a price drop to two million, nine hundred and fifty in four days. That's not something you generally see. Then four days after that they dropped it again to two million, seven hundred and fifty thousand, and then removed the listing about thirty days later. So went through these rapid price drops, removed the listing, and then put it back on the market to make it look kind of like a fresh listing for two million, seven hundred and fifty and two months after that it was put on hold, not taking off the market.

It's put on hold.

It's put on hold.

So I personally see they're trying to desperately get rid of this thing, and now they're kind of in an unknown situation, which was kind of confirmed by the listing agent.

So I personally see they're trying to desperately get rid of this thing, and now they're kind of in an unknown situation, which was kind of confirmed by the listing agent.

How does a house get put on hold? What does that mean?

How does a house get put on hold? What does that mean?

So being put on hold usually is something that a listing agent would use if a seller is, say doing some work to the property or second guessing the move. Maybe they're escro fell through on their uplaid property or the one they're going to go purchase. So instead of removing the listing and canceling it, which means that they no longer are represented by an agent, it's just basically like saying, hey, time out, let's gather our thoughts, let's figure out what our next steps are. And it makes to where the public can't see it anymore.

So being put on hold usually is something that a listing agent would use if a seller is, say doing some work to the property or second guessing the move. Maybe they're escro fell through on their uplaid property or the one they're going to go purchase. So instead of removing the listing and canceling it, which means that they no longer are represented by an agent, it's just basically like saying, hey, time out, let's gather our thoughts, let's figure out what our next steps are. And it makes to where the public can't see it anymore.

Ah, but is it still technically for sale? Are they entertained offers? What's the deal? So?

Ah, but is it still technically for sale? Are they entertained offers? What's the deal? So?

I'm sure they would entertain an offer. I didn't ask that specifically of the listing agent when I talked to them very briefly.

I'm sure they would entertain an offer. I didn't ask that specifically of the listing agent when I talked to them very briefly.

FYI, I call that listing agent a bunch of times and he never got back to me.

FYI, I call that listing agent a bunch of times and he never got back to me.

But usually when a home is on hold, well at least the guidelines as an agent, you can't show the home. I'm sure they would entertain some sort of blind offer, but usually that offer would have to be somewhat contingent upon interior inspection of the home.

But usually when a home is on hold, well at least the guidelines as an agent, you can't show the home. I'm sure they would entertain some sort of blind offer, but usually that offer would have to be somewhat contingent upon interior inspection of the home.

Why hasn't this house sold yet? It's beautiful, it seems fairly priced based on the location and the neighbors and the comps. Why hasn't it sold in California is a hot market?

Why hasn't this house sold yet? It's beautiful, it seems fairly priced based on the location and the neighbors and the comps. Why hasn't it sold in California is a hot market?

Yes, California is a hot market. It is price fairly. I would imagine the reason it hasn't sold is any buyer in that price point is usually really in tune with making sure that they're making a sound decision with where they're putting their money, and anytime that there's something kind of fishy with the property, Like I've had clients call me on a seven hundred thousand dollars property and say, hey, I know we put that off and we really like it, but I saw that the neighbor's home next door was a part of a drug raid or some random thing. I don't know that we want to move forward with this house because we don't really want to be associated with that long term. So the only thing I can think, I would imagine it has to do with if you google the property, you're going to find these articles, and if you're putting a few million bucks somewhere, they might not be thinking it the best long term investment.

Yes, California is a hot market. It is price fairly. I would imagine the reason it hasn't sold is any buyer in that price point is usually really in tune with making sure that they're making a sound decision with where they're putting their money, and anytime that there's something kind of fishy with the property, Like I've had clients call me on a seven hundred thousand dollars property and say, hey, I know we put that off and we really like it, but I saw that the neighbor's home next door was a part of a drug raid or some random thing. I don't know that we want to move forward with this house because we don't really want to be associated with that long term. So the only thing I can think, I would imagine it has to do with if you google the property, you're going to find these articles, and if you're putting a few million bucks somewhere, they might not be thinking it the best long term investment.

So I not only google the property, I actually put on an elaborate disguise and walk right up to Michelle Mack's front door after.

So I not only google the property, I actually put on an elaborate disguise and walk right up to Michelle Mack's front door after.

The break.

The break.

Welcome back to Queen of the Con. At this point, I'm really wondering what Michelle Max's neighbors are thinking. So I run a background check on her address, and I see that she's got two dozen neighbors in the area, and I dig up their phone numbers and email addresses, and I call and text and email all of them, and no one is getting back to me.

Welcome back to Queen of the Con. At this point, I'm really wondering what Michelle Max's neighbors are thinking. So I run a background check on her address, and I see that she's got two dozen neighbors in the area, and I dig up their phone numbers and email addresses, and I call and text and email all of them, and no one is getting back to me.

If someone called me saying, hey, I host the podcast. Can you talk about your criminal neighbor.

If someone called me saying, hey, I host the podcast. Can you talk about your criminal neighbor.

I don't know. I don't think i'd get back to you either.

I don't know. I don't think i'd get back to you either.

My buddy Evan Goldstein. I know it's weird, like nobody wants to talk about it. Especially I've noticed not just victims of cons, but anyone tangentially involved with a con, even just witnesses, like they don't want to talk publicly. They'll tell their friends, they'll tell their family, but they don't want to broadcast it in a podcast.

My buddy Evan Goldstein. I know it's weird, like nobody wants to talk about it. Especially I've noticed not just victims of cons, but anyone tangentially involved with a con, even just witnesses, like they don't want to talk publicly. They'll tell their friends, they'll tell their family, but they don't want to broadcast it in a podcast.

I wonder why, because it's not like they're the criminal. I guess it's just they.

I wonder why, because it's not like they're the criminal. I guess it's just they.

Don't want to get involved. I don't want to get involved, like somebody did something bad. I don't want to get involved.

Don't want to get involved. I don't want to get involved, like somebody did something bad. I don't want to get involved.

And even kind of like the low level version, it's like you're walking up to the grocery store and there's like someone trying to get you to sign a petition or something. Then you might even believe no thanks in what they're talking about. But just like I just got to go. I got other things to do.

And even kind of like the low level version, it's like you're walking up to the grocery store and there's like someone trying to get you to sign a petition or something. Then you might even believe no thanks in what they're talking about. But just like I just got to go. I got other things to do.

Yeah, people, you know, we're in a culture now where nobody wants to participate in anything. So I've been thinking.

Yeah, people, you know, we're in a culture now where nobody wants to participate in anything. So I've been thinking.

Dangerous.

Dangerous.

Maybe I should go down there because to the neighborhood, to Michelle max house and talk. Try to talk to her neighbors face to face. Because it's easy to not return to someone's phone calls or emails or texts, or not answer the phone. That's easy. But if someone's in front of your face asking you a.

Maybe I should go down there because to the neighborhood, to Michelle max house and talk. Try to talk to her neighbors face to face. Because it's easy to not return to someone's phone calls or emails or texts, or not answer the phone. That's easy. But if someone's in front of your face asking you a.

Question, right, no, I get it.

Question, right, no, I get it.

So I'm really I'm thinking seriously of driving down there and just what.

So I'm really I'm thinking seriously of driving down there and just what.

Knock on doors, see if you can see anyone.

Knock on doors, see if you can see anyone.

Yeah, walk around the neighborhood, see if anyone's out and about. From what I understand, it's this really high end, rich people, mansion y type neighborhood. I wanted to go down there, but I was wondering would you come with me?

Yeah, walk around the neighborhood, see if anyone's out and about. From what I understand, it's this really high end, rich people, mansion y type neighborhood. I wanted to go down there, but I was wondering would you come with me?

You know, talking about not wanting to get involved.

You know, talking about not wanting to get involved.

When you when you want to go this Sunday, let's do it Sunday.

When you when you want to go this Sunday, let's do it Sunday.

You know I'm down man, I'll go. I'll go.

You know I'm down man, I'll go. I'll go.

I just got to clear it. I just got to clear it with the boss at home. But I will go for sure. I will be there just so you don't get accosted. I'll be your security.

I just got to clear it. I just got to clear it with the boss at home. But I will go for sure. I will be there just so you don't get accosted. I'll be your security.

It'd be fun drive down to San Diego, talk to the neighbors. Hopefully no one shoots at us. Yeah, if I do go, I'm thinking I need some kind of disguise.

It'd be fun drive down to San Diego, talk to the neighbors. Hopefully no one shoots at us. Yeah, if I do go, I'm thinking I need some kind of disguise.

I was thinking like Harry Crumbs style.

I was thinking like Harry Crumbs style.

Yeah, like a two pay because Michelle Mack knows me. Michelle Mack knows what I look like outside court. Yeah yeah, so if she sees me walking around her neighborhood, she might freak out and like approach me or like, I don't know, like like try to don't talk to him, or leave me alone or call the cops on me.

Yeah, like a two pay because Michelle Mack knows me. Michelle Mack knows what I look like outside court. Yeah yeah, so if she sees me walking around her neighborhood, she might freak out and like approach me or like, I don't know, like like try to don't talk to him, or leave me alone or call the cops on me.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Now I'm more.

Now I'm more.

Now I want to go even more, or just to see you in a two pay Are you gonna get a too pay?

Now I want to go even more, or just to see you in a two pay Are you gonna get a too pay?

I mean that would change because I'm a bald man for people, for listeners who don't know, I'm completely bald, So to pay makes a bald man look.

I mean that would change because I'm a bald man for people, for listeners who don't know, I'm completely bald, So to pay makes a bald man look.

Like like hair is an oh oh, it's totally true.

Like like hair is an oh oh, it's totally true.

Can change my whole luck.

Can change my whole luck.

Seeing you with hair is the price of admission alone.

Seeing you with hair is the price of admission alone.

Since we're going to this kind of very affluent neighborhood, maybe we should.

Since we're going to this kind of very affluent neighborhood, maybe we should.

You know, because people get kind of suspicious.

You know, because people get kind of suspicious.

So just strangers walking around, maybe we get like like construction vests, like we're reflective vests, or like helmets or something. Just some people don't call the cops.

So just strangers walking around, maybe we get like like construction vests, like we're reflective vests, or like helmets or something. Just some people don't call the cops.

You just you know, so you look like official, like we're doing something legit, Like we're with the city.

You just you know, so you look like official, like we're doing something legit, Like we're with the city.

Yeah, just like we're with the city of Bonsel, ma'am.

Yeah, just like we're with the city of Bonsel, ma'am.

We're uh, yeah, don't mind us. We're we're just we're surveying.

We're uh, yeah, don't mind us. We're we're just we're surveying.

We're serving whatever census.

We're serving whatever census.

But it's just like, you know, how often do you see people just kind of you know.

But it's just like, you know, how often do you see people just kind of you know.

No, listen, you're right, A reflective vess gives the allure of like an official, like a legitimate person. And I don't think doing something.

No, listen, you're right, A reflective vess gives the allure of like an official, like a legitimate person. And I don't think doing something.

I feel like without him, maybe we'll seem more suspicious.

I feel like without him, maybe we'll seem more suspicious.

And then absolutely, who are those two schmos walking around as opposed to Oh, there's two men in reflective vests. One of them has a stunning head of hair. That's distractive. They must be legit. They must be on official business from the city. That's a good idea. See, you're already pulling your weight. Whatever we're paying you double it. So I start calling around looking to buy a two pay or a hair piece or a hair system as some of them are called, and I am shocked by how much they cost.

And then absolutely, who are those two schmos walking around as opposed to Oh, there's two men in reflective vests. One of them has a stunning head of hair. That's distractive. They must be legit. They must be on official business from the city. That's a good idea. See, you're already pulling your weight. Whatever we're paying you double it. So I start calling around looking to buy a two pay or a hair piece or a hair system as some of them are called, and I am shocked by how much they cost.

Our hair systems start a two thousand dollars and go all the way up to five thousand, depending on the style you want.

Our hair systems start a two thousand dollars and go all the way up to five thousand, depending on the style you want.

But I find this Vietnamese place in East Los Angeles selling two pays made from real human hair for much much less. So I head on over.

But I find this Vietnamese place in East Los Angeles selling two pays made from real human hair for much much less. So I head on over.

The h.

The h.

Hello, Jason, I called, I'm Jonathan.

Hello, Jason, I called, I'm Jonathan.

You good.

You good.

I'm looking for to pay like realistic? Oh you pulled some.

I'm looking for to pay like realistic? Oh you pulled some.

I'm staring now at a wall of shelves with dozens of mannequin heads sporting every kind of hair piece and to pay under the sun. Fortunately the sales guy, Jason pulled a few for me that he thought would work based on what I told him over the phone.

I'm staring now at a wall of shelves with dozens of mannequin heads sporting every kind of hair piece and to pay under the sun. Fortunately the sales guy, Jason pulled a few for me that he thought would work based on what I told him over the phone.

They look real.

They look real.

Figuring out the right to pay to wear is kind of like falling in love. You've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find the one that's meant for you.

Figuring out the right to pay to wear is kind of like falling in love. You've got to kiss a lot of frogs to find the one that's meant for you.

I mean, this looks the most realistic, right? And how much is this one? This is a blue Jonil four hundred and fifty. I gotta give prize is three hundred or twenty three hundred twenty for this one?

I mean, this looks the most realistic, right? And how much is this one? This is a blue Jonil four hundred and fifty. I gotta give prize is three hundred or twenty three hundred twenty for this one?

Yes, you might be asking your what I was asking myself at that point, How the hell am I going to get this cranial murkin to stay affixed to the top of my head for an entire day.

Yes, you might be asking your what I was asking myself at that point, How the hell am I going to get this cranial murkin to stay affixed to the top of my head for an entire day.

Like, how would I get it to stay on?

Like, how would I get it to stay on?

Instead of answering my question directly, wig Kahuna, Jason slips me a small plastic envelope containing strips.

Instead of answering my question directly, wig Kahuna, Jason slips me a small plastic envelope containing strips.

Of double sided tape.

Of double sided tape.

Yeah, and what I would just put these so easie.

Yeah, and what I would just put these so easie.

And it sticks. Put three Yeah.

And it sticks. Put three Yeah.

Gotta say the two pay was the absolute right call. I look like a completely different person as Jason finishes taping it really securely to my scalp.

Gotta say the two pay was the absolute right call. I look like a completely different person as Jason finishes taping it really securely to my scalp.

Oh, I can feel the grip. Wow, so that's on there. Shake that up? Yeah, no, that's on there.

Oh, I can feel the grip. Wow, so that's on there. Shake that up? Yeah, no, that's on there.

I'm posting before and after shots of me and my new three hundred and twenty dollars hairpiece at Queen of the Cohn on Instagra, so you can see what a difference a head of hair can make on a bald man. The next day, it's go time. My alarm screeches at four am. I'm up, excited like a kid on Christmas morning. I slap that two pay on top of my head and I tape it down just like Jason showed me, and it looks like crap, utter, crap. I don't know what happened. This hair seems to have a mind of its own. So in a hurried panic because I gotta leave soon to pick Evan up so we can drive down to San Diego. I wet it, I blow dry it, I put some gel in it, and I hair spray the hell out of it and hudgh it up and it looks better. But I'm beginning to regret not spending two thousand dollars on one of those fancy high end hair systems. When it comes to two pays, I'm learning you kind of get what you pay for. Anyway. I pull up to Evans's house at the crack of dawn and walk up to his front door. Keep in mind he has not seen my new hair yet. Evan comes out with his wife and kids and cannot stop laughing.

I'm posting before and after shots of me and my new three hundred and twenty dollars hairpiece at Queen of the Cohn on Instagra, so you can see what a difference a head of hair can make on a bald man. The next day, it's go time. My alarm screeches at four am. I'm up, excited like a kid on Christmas morning. I slap that two pay on top of my head and I tape it down just like Jason showed me, and it looks like crap, utter, crap. I don't know what happened. This hair seems to have a mind of its own. So in a hurried panic because I gotta leave soon to pick Evan up so we can drive down to San Diego. I wet it, I blow dry it, I put some gel in it, and I hair spray the hell out of it and hudgh it up and it looks better. But I'm beginning to regret not spending two thousand dollars on one of those fancy high end hair systems. When it comes to two pays, I'm learning you kind of get what you pay for. Anyway. I pull up to Evans's house at the crack of dawn and walk up to his front door. Keep in mind he has not seen my new hair yet. Evan comes out with his wife and kids and cannot stop laughing.

Oh my god, good morning.

Oh my god, good morning.

Hi.

Hi.

Can I say hi. Evan's kids, who know me very well, do not recognize me at all, and they look terrified as their mom, Evan's wife, Christine, tries to comfort them.

Can I say hi. Evan's kids, who know me very well, do not recognize me at all, and they look terrified as their mom, Evan's wife, Christine, tries to comfort them.

Hi, he's so cute. It's so bizarre.

Hi, he's so cute. It's so bizarre.

But I got hair now. But it's means like.

But I got hair now. But it's means like.

A week for like Halloween.

A week for like Halloween.

It's a costume. I actually take it as a good sign. I mean, if Evans kids don't recognize me, surely Michelle Mack won't either.

It's a costume. I actually take it as a good sign. I mean, if Evans kids don't recognize me, surely Michelle Mack won't either.

All right, bye, guys, we're gonna go beat the traffic.

All right, bye, guys, we're gonna go beat the traffic.

Okay, I'll see you later, listeners.

Okay, I'll see you later, listeners.

Yeah, all right.

Yeah, all right.

So we get in the car and settle in for our two and a half hour drive to San Diego, and almost immediately my new hair stuck to my scalp with industrial strength double sided tape starts bugging the hell out of me. I'm hating it because it's uncomfortable. I'm sweating. It took an hour and it still looks like shit, But it took an hour to look this shitty.

So we get in the car and settle in for our two and a half hour drive to San Diego, and almost immediately my new hair stuck to my scalp with industrial strength double sided tape starts bugging the hell out of me. I'm hating it because it's uncomfortable. I'm sweating. It took an hour and it still looks like shit, But it took an hour to look this shitty.

Yeah, I feel I feel like I feel like I need to take you to like Tiffany's for a shopping spree. It's like from Pretty Woman, like it's just you with hair is just like a whole new thing.

Yeah, I feel I feel like I feel like I need to take you to like Tiffany's for a shopping spree. It's like from Pretty Woman, like it's just you with hair is just like a whole new thing.

But let me tell you, there was this I went into Starbucks before I got here to get you that coffee that's her coffee, and this girl could not stop looking at me. Really, so do you think she was like, who's.

But let me tell you, there was this I went into Starbucks before I got here to get you that coffee that's her coffee, and this girl could not stop looking at me. Really, so do you think she was like, who's.

That hottie with that wavy hair? I think so? Or she like what the fuck is that in that guy's head.

That hottie with that wavy hair? I think so? Or she like what the fuck is that in that guy's head.

I mean, does it does it look real?

I mean, does it does it look real?

It doesn't.

It doesn't.

It doesn't, I know, because it's like, I know, it's hard to visualize you with hair, but maybe here it is. You look like you should have like one long pinky fingernail just for coke.

It doesn't, I know, because it's like, I know, it's hard to visualize you with hair, but maybe here it is. You look like you should have like one long pinky fingernail just for coke.

It's a cheap hair piece. I didn't know they cost thousands of dollars. Yeah, well, and we don't have that in the budget.

It's a cheap hair piece. I didn't know they cost thousands of dollars. Yeah, well, and we don't have that in the budget.

It's a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, you definitely put.

It's a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah, you definitely put.

A lot of Yeah, I got bold holed or something. It like reminds me of my grandma Eyeda's hair. It was just so crispy. She from the beauty parlor, and it's just like, don't touch the hair. But all that really matters is is that I look like a different person. You look like a different person, said, Mission accomplished.

A lot of Yeah, I got bold holed or something. It like reminds me of my grandma Eyeda's hair. It was just so crispy. She from the beauty parlor, and it's just like, don't touch the hair. But all that really matters is is that I look like a different person. You look like a different person, said, Mission accomplished.

Yeah, well part of the mission anyway. Who knew this episode would end with me and Evan running from the cops after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Cohn. Evan and I just drove two and a half hours down Interstate five from Los Angeles to Bonzol, California. That exclusive community just north of San Diego, and all of a sudden, it feels like we're in a different country all together.

Yeah, well part of the mission anyway. Who knew this episode would end with me and Evan running from the cops after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Cohn. Evan and I just drove two and a half hours down Interstate five from Los Angeles to Bonzol, California. That exclusive community just north of San Diego, and all of a sudden, it feels like we're in a different country all together.

God, it's beautiful out here.

God, it's beautiful out here.

Yeah, it's amazing. I see vineyards over there.

Yeah, it's amazing. I see vineyards over there.

Vineyards literally looks like Italy fruit trees. It looks like the rolling hills of Italy in.

Vineyards literally looks like Italy fruit trees. It looks like the rolling hills of Italy in.

The Tuscan region.

The Tuscan region.

Is it a gated community?

Is it a gated community?

I looked on Google Map and I couldn't find any gate or anything. It looks anyone can drive up to it. But I was wrong, because when we get to Michelle Mack's neighborhood, we're met with a giant, wrought iron gate. God, these weren't fucking cool maps.

I looked on Google Map and I couldn't find any gate or anything. It looks anyone can drive up to it. But I was wrong, because when we get to Michelle Mack's neighborhood, we're met with a giant, wrought iron gate. God, these weren't fucking cool maps.

What are you gonna try?

What are you gonna try?

I'm gonna try driving in behind another car.

I'm gonna try driving in behind another car.

We're in, Baby, We're in, all right.

We're in, Baby, We're in, all right.

God, this is such an amazing place.

God, this is such an amazing place.

Beautiful. But look at that house on the hill, just giant.

Beautiful. But look at that house on the hill, just giant.

This neighborhood is unreal. Each humongous house sits on acres of land on its own hill, and there are a couple dozen houses on a couple dozen different hills, and winding tree lined streets connecting all of them.

This neighborhood is unreal. Each humongous house sits on acres of land on its own hill, and there are a couple dozen houses on a couple dozen different hills, and winding tree lined streets connecting all of them.

These roads.

These roads.

Man, it feels like we're in Italy or Greece or any place famed for rolling hills and vineyards and junipra trees. Look at this house, Jesus, Wow, Like what the hell did these people do for a living? Well, we know one of them stolen stuff on Amazon.

Man, it feels like we're in Italy or Greece or any place famed for rolling hills and vineyards and junipra trees. Look at this house, Jesus, Wow, Like what the hell did these people do for a living? Well, we know one of them stolen stuff on Amazon.

That's true. Who knows, you know?

That's true. Who knows, you know?

And like this whole community just like every house is just baller to the max.

And like this whole community just like every house is just baller to the max.

Wow.

Wow.

God, just like on top of the hill and like you could just see this rolling landscape just kind of unfurl out.

God, just like on top of the hill and like you could just see this rolling landscape just kind of unfurl out.

I wrote a bunch of letters that I'm gonna hand out if we se any neighbors. But what sucks is we don't actually see any neighbors anywhere, and I'm too terrified to knock on any front doors unannounced because of all the recent murders being reported across the country where someone shows up unexpectedly and the homeowner just shoots them dead at the front door.

I wrote a bunch of letters that I'm gonna hand out if we se any neighbors. But what sucks is we don't actually see any neighbors anywhere, and I'm too terrified to knock on any front doors unannounced because of all the recent murders being reported across the country where someone shows up unexpectedly and the homeowner just shoots them dead at the front door.

Yorkman is facing second agree murder charges for allegedly shooting and killing a twenty year old woman when she mistakenly arrived at the wrong address.

Yorkman is facing second agree murder charges for allegedly shooting and killing a twenty year old woman when she mistakenly arrived at the wrong address.

Ultimately, we have no idea what we're walking into.

Ultimately, we have no idea what we're walking into.

So we decide to drive around for a while, hoping to find a neighbor to talk to. While they're walking their dog or out for a jog or something, but the streets are empty. Eventually, we decide to drive up to where Michelle Max's house is.

So we decide to drive around for a while, hoping to find a neighbor to talk to. While they're walking their dog or out for a jog or something, but the streets are empty. Eventually, we decide to drive up to where Michelle Max's house is.

It's right here on the right.

It's right here on the right.

Is that her vineyard.

Is that her vineyard.

I can't tell if it's like a neighbor's vineyard or her vineyard.

I can't tell if it's like a neighbor's vineyard or her vineyard.

It's like everyone's got a vineyard.

It's like everyone's got a vineyard.

It doesn't seem like there's anyone there. I think the house is abandoned. I mean there's no furniture. Looking look in the windows. Fine, there's no furniture there.

It doesn't seem like there's anyone there. I think the house is abandoned. I mean there's no furniture. Looking look in the windows. Fine, there's no furniture there.

Looking up at the house from the hill below, it seems abandoned. All of the windows are bare, no curtains or shutters, and we can see that there is clearly no furniture inside. The house is empty.

Looking up at the house from the hill below, it seems abandoned. All of the windows are bare, no curtains or shutters, and we can see that there is clearly no furniture inside. The house is empty.

Cars in the driveway, no cars in the driveway.

Cars in the driveway, no cars in the driveway.

Okay, let's just park in the driveway.

Okay, let's just park in the driveway.

So we take a chance and drive up Michelle Mack's winding driveway. We park in front of her giant four car garage where law enforcement agents confiscated nearly four hundred thousand dollars worth of stolen stuff back in December, and we actually get out of the car and walk around. Keep in mind we're wearing hard hats and bright yellow reflective vests and my two pay is on fleek. I'm posting video of us at Queen of the Con on Instagram so you can see.

So we take a chance and drive up Michelle Mack's winding driveway. We park in front of her giant four car garage where law enforcement agents confiscated nearly four hundred thousand dollars worth of stolen stuff back in December, and we actually get out of the car and walk around. Keep in mind we're wearing hard hats and bright yellow reflective vests and my two pay is on fleek. I'm posting video of us at Queen of the Con on Instagram so you can see.

So what's our cover story if someone does come.

So what's our cover story if someone does come.

Out, We're just looking for gas leak. It looks abandoned, right, yeah, looks like no one's here.

Out, We're just looking for gas leak. It looks abandoned, right, yeah, looks like no one's here.

Oh look, there's the chapel.

Oh look, there's the chapel.

That's the chapel.

That's the chapel.

I see the stained glass.

I see the stained glass.

Walking around the perimeter of the house. Now there's like rolling fields of vineyard and vegetation and planets. There's like ten thousand lemons on that tree. Why don't they pick them?

Walking around the perimeter of the house. Now there's like rolling fields of vineyard and vegetation and planets. There's like ten thousand lemons on that tree. Why don't they pick them?

I think she's busy right now.

I think she's busy right now.

All of a sudden in the distance. Oh so I hear the I hear the cops, Dode, I think we should go. Dude, do you hear Do you think they called them for us?

All of a sudden in the distance. Oh so I hear the I hear the cops, Dode, I think we should go. Dude, do you hear Do you think they called them for us?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Maybe I'm not even kidding, I know, should you book it?

Maybe I'm not even kidding, I know, should you book it?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Alright, let's go.

Alright, let's go.

We're running from running because.

We're running from running because.

You heard the sirens, right, yeah, yeah, let's roll running from the cops.

You heard the sirens, right, yeah, yeah, let's roll running from the cops.

Let's go. Yeah, they were definitely getting closer.

Let's go. Yeah, they were definitely getting closer.

Somebody called the cops, so it's like, belts, let's go.

Somebody called the cops, so it's like, belts, let's go.

Put it on while you're driving.

Put it on while you're driving.

Come on, okay, I just don't want, like, you know, I don't want my son to visit me at jail today. It almost makes this more guilty looking with it, like wearing disguises.

Come on, okay, I just don't want, like, you know, I don't want my son to visit me at jail today. It almost makes this more guilty looking with it, like wearing disguises.

Like we don't want to get hit.

Like we don't want to get hit.

We're with Gold Gold Scene and Walton Construction. Uh you know, we're just checking out the valves.

We're with Gold Gold Scene and Walton Construction. Uh you know, we're just checking out the valves.

God, dude, my my two pay is drenched in sweat. It's dripping down my face.

God, dude, my my two pay is drenched in sweat. It's dripping down my face.

I see it.

I see it.

I want to get this off of me, drenched in sweat and hearts pounding. We wait around for a bit down the street to see if police ever actually do show up, and they never do, so I guess it was a false alarm and nobody called the cops on us. After all.

I want to get this off of me, drenched in sweat and hearts pounding. We wait around for a bit down the street to see if police ever actually do show up, and they never do, so I guess it was a false alarm and nobody called the cops on us. After all.

Well, it seems like we're home free now.

Well, it seems like we're home free now.

But famous last words, that's true.

But famous last words, that's true.

They're just gonna be waiting at the bottom of the gate.

They're just gonna be waiting at the bottom of the gate.

Here, guns drawn, come out of the vehicle, hurt your hands up, but we make it out unscathed. I am worried, though, like how bad did we just break the law right now? I mean, there were no signs that said private property or no trust passing or anything like that posted at those.

Here, guns drawn, come out of the vehicle, hurt your hands up, but we make it out unscathed. I am worried, though, like how bad did we just break the law right now? I mean, there were no signs that said private property or no trust passing or anything like that posted at those.

Gates if there's nothing posted, technically speaking, you're not trespassing.

Gates if there's nothing posted, technically speaking, you're not trespassing.

Sergeant Jordan Morakian, again a veteran cop in southern California with more than twenty years in law enforcement.

Sergeant Jordan Morakian, again a veteran cop in southern California with more than twenty years in law enforcement.

When you get to a gated property and you bypass that gate, even when you bypass that gate, you're not trespassing until somebody says you are. Like in Laguna Beach where I used to work, we had gated communities there too. We had Emerald Bay, which was a big one, and people would wait at the gate and go in there because they wanted to access the private beach. Ah right, so, and we would get calls from security there, Hey there's a family of four on the beach, we want them out of here. And we would ask them to leave, and they would leave.

When you get to a gated property and you bypass that gate, even when you bypass that gate, you're not trespassing until somebody says you are. Like in Laguna Beach where I used to work, we had gated communities there too. We had Emerald Bay, which was a big one, and people would wait at the gate and go in there because they wanted to access the private beach. Ah right, so, and we would get calls from security there, Hey there's a family of four on the beach, we want them out of here. And we would ask them to leave, and they would leave.

And they would leave because at that point, if they refuse to leave, that's trespassing.

And they would leave because at that point, if they refuse to leave, that's trespassing.

It is if the security guard is willing to press charges.

It is if the security guard is willing to press charges.

Oh god, it's that other step, right, And how often is it that that person doesn't want to sign a paper or get involved or press charges.

Oh god, it's that other step, right, And how often is it that that person doesn't want to sign a paper or get involved or press charges.

I would say about seventy percent of the time, maybe eighty.

I would say about seventy percent of the time, maybe eighty.

The other thing I was not aware of when it comes to gated communities.

The other thing I was not aware of when it comes to gated communities.

If those roads are publicly maintained, the gate is aesthetic only. It's just there to give the appearance of access control.

If those roads are publicly maintained, the gate is aesthetic only. It's just there to give the appearance of access control.

Good to know.

Good to know.

Anyway, We get back to LA and as the days pass, I start getting curious about when Michelle Mack will be in court next. I'm told that for a huge case like hers, trial might be at least a year or two or possibly three years away. So I definitely want to keep tabs on all her pre trial hearings and court appearances. But I'm not finding any dates for her case listed on the courthouse website, and god knows, I do not feel like driving all the way back down to San Diego again to wait in line at the clerk's office. So on June seventeenth, I go on Yelp and find a company called my Paralegal Services in San Diego, and I pay them one hundred bucks to go to the courthouse and get me a copy of the latest docket in the Michelle Matt case so I can see when the next hearing is scheduled. And a couple hours later, my paral legal services, Nora Raffi, calls me out load and blows my mind.

Anyway, We get back to LA and as the days pass, I start getting curious about when Michelle Mack will be in court next. I'm told that for a huge case like hers, trial might be at least a year or two or possibly three years away. So I definitely want to keep tabs on all her pre trial hearings and court appearances. But I'm not finding any dates for her case listed on the courthouse website, and god knows, I do not feel like driving all the way back down to San Diego again to wait in line at the clerk's office. So on June seventeenth, I go on Yelp and find a company called my Paralegal Services in San Diego, and I pay them one hundred bucks to go to the courthouse and get me a copy of the latest docket in the Michelle Matt case so I can see when the next hearing is scheduled. And a couple hours later, my paral legal services, Nora Raffi, calls me out load and blows my mind.

Hey, it's Nora.

Hey, it's Nora.

Hey Laura. How's it going pretty good?

Hey Laura. How's it going pretty good?

So I just wanted to give you an update. I went to the clerk's office this morning to pull the file on Michelle Mack. They told me that her file was actually in the courtroom because there was a hearing this morning. Uh yeah, she there was a hearing and she actually pled guilty. No way, Yeah, she pled guilty. Guilty, she shure did, she shared?

So I just wanted to give you an update. I went to the clerk's office this morning to pull the file on Michelle Mack. They told me that her file was actually in the courtroom because there was a hearing this morning. Uh yeah, she there was a hearing and she actually pled guilty. No way, Yeah, she pled guilty. Guilty, she shure did, she shared?

Did?

Did?

She was represented by her attorney, and there's going to be a probation slash sentencing hearing scheduled for July eighteenth at one thirty in Department eleven.

She was represented by her attorney, and there's going to be a probation slash sentencing hearing scheduled for July eighteenth at one thirty in Department eleven.

Oh one, Wow, God, I'm like pulled over. She fled guilty. So this is going to end pretty quickly. It was supposed to go on for years, I was told.

Oh one, Wow, God, I'm like pulled over. She fled guilty. So this is going to end pretty quickly. It was supposed to go on for years, I was told.

And had she gone the trial, it certainly would have. But she pled, as did her husband, Kenneth.

And had she gone the trial, it certainly would have. But she pled, as did her husband, Kenneth.

Based on what we saw on the complaint, I'm not surprised. It looked like there was a very strong case, right.

Based on what we saw on the complaint, I'm not surprised. It looked like there was a very strong case, right.

Former federal prosecutor and current defense attorney Scott Tenley.

Former federal prosecutor and current defense attorney Scott Tenley.

Again, as I recall, we had text messages between her and one of the individuals that was stealing some of the merchandise. We had a search warrant presumably executed at her home where they found all the goods. There was evidence that the store was hers, the Amazon store, and presumably there was a wealth of other evidence on the computers and cell phones and other things that they seized, So it looks like a very strong case now. Likely what happened is after she was arrested, her attorney got ahold of the discovery. They confirmed that she was fucked, which is a legal term we sometimes used. And the best offer, the best deal that she could get, was one she took quickly before putting the government to its paces and going through hearings and calling in witnesses and things like that. So probably this is one of the most recent wise decisions she's made, was to take a deal.

Again, as I recall, we had text messages between her and one of the individuals that was stealing some of the merchandise. We had a search warrant presumably executed at her home where they found all the goods. There was evidence that the store was hers, the Amazon store, and presumably there was a wealth of other evidence on the computers and cell phones and other things that they seized, So it looks like a very strong case now. Likely what happened is after she was arrested, her attorney got ahold of the discovery. They confirmed that she was fucked, which is a legal term we sometimes used. And the best offer, the best deal that she could get, was one she took quickly before putting the government to its paces and going through hearings and calling in witnesses and things like that. So probably this is one of the most recent wise decisions she's made, was to take a deal.

And for people who don't know, what is discovery.

And for people who don't know, what is discovery.

So discovery is what the government hands over to every defendant in every criminal case, which is the evidence they've developed in the investigation and the evidence that they might use against you a trial. So you'll see police reports, you'll see all the cell phone communications they've seized, you'll see subpoenad records from banks, from Amazon, everything they've collected, they turn that over to the defense and allow the defense to review it and either see that this is a very tough case, my client is guilty, or learn of ways they can defend the case. And here are the problems, here are the holes. But the defense attorney and the defendant won't know it until they get all that from the government, and that's usually disclosed at the outset of the case after you're arrested.

So discovery is what the government hands over to every defendant in every criminal case, which is the evidence they've developed in the investigation and the evidence that they might use against you a trial. So you'll see police reports, you'll see all the cell phone communications they've seized, you'll see subpoenad records from banks, from Amazon, everything they've collected, they turn that over to the defense and allow the defense to review it and either see that this is a very tough case, my client is guilty, or learn of ways they can defend the case. And here are the problems, here are the holes. But the defense attorney and the defendant won't know it until they get all that from the government, and that's usually disclosed at the outset of the case after you're arrested.

And get this weeks earlier. The prosecutor and the Michelle matt case actually stated in court that she was offering plea deals to some of the lower level California girls.

And get this weeks earlier. The prosecutor and the Michelle matt case actually stated in court that she was offering plea deals to some of the lower level California girls.

That's the other interesting thing about something like this, Jonathan, is when you start having a larger and larger conspiracy, you're always going to be at risk that one of the lower level players, they're going to be looking to get out of trouble and they cooperate.

That's the other interesting thing about something like this, Jonathan, is when you start having a larger and larger conspiracy, you're always going to be at risk that one of the lower level players, they're going to be looking to get out of trouble and they cooperate.

And that is exactly what appears to have happened, prompting Michelle Mack to plead guilty on June seventeenth, twenty twenty four.

And that is exactly what appears to have happened, prompting Michelle Mack to plead guilty on June seventeenth, twenty twenty four.

So they made her eat the two most serious charges, which was like, how you phrased that conspiracy to commit organize retail theft and then organize retail theft. This substantive defense. And then she also admitted what's called an aggravating sentencing factor under California law, and that's an enhancement that can make the penalties greater for the underlying crime. So here she admitted to an aggravated white collar crime enhancement, and depending on the dollar amount that's involved, that can add from one to two years to the sentence, potentially all the way up to five years additional to her sentence. So it's not a crime she pleaded guilty too, but also this enhancement that will factor into her sentencing.

So they made her eat the two most serious charges, which was like, how you phrased that conspiracy to commit organize retail theft and then organize retail theft. This substantive defense. And then she also admitted what's called an aggravating sentencing factor under California law, and that's an enhancement that can make the penalties greater for the underlying crime. So here she admitted to an aggravated white collar crime enhancement, and depending on the dollar amount that's involved, that can add from one to two years to the sentence, potentially all the way up to five years additional to her sentence. So it's not a crime she pleaded guilty too, but also this enhancement that will factor into her sentencing.

One month later, on July eighteenth, twenty twenty four, the shoplifting queen stands before a California judge and throws herself at the mercy of the court. She's hoping for no jail time and just probation, but she is sorely disappointed.

One month later, on July eighteenth, twenty twenty four, the shoplifting queen stands before a California judge and throws herself at the mercy of the court. She's hoping for no jail time and just probation, but she is sorely disappointed.

Michelle Mack of Bonsel, California received a delayed sentence of five years and four months.

Michelle Mack of Bonsel, California received a delayed sentence of five years and four months.

My buddy Evan Goldstein, again reading news coverage of Michelle Mack's sentencing hearing.

My buddy Evan Goldstein, again reading news coverage of Michelle Mack's sentencing hearing.

Her husband Kenneth received the same sentence and is already incarcerated. As part of his plea deal, he will be released after one year and then put on probation and community service for the remainder of his sentence. The judge allowed mac to serve her sentence after her husband is released so she can care for their children. The couple must also pay about three million dollars in restitution to Aulta and another thirteen thousand to Serfhora.

Her husband Kenneth received the same sentence and is already incarcerated. As part of his plea deal, he will be released after one year and then put on probation and community service for the remainder of his sentence. The judge allowed mac to serve her sentence after her husband is released so she can care for their children. The couple must also pay about three million dollars in restitution to Aulta and another thirteen thousand to Serfhora.

According to a court official.

According to a court official.

It's just insane. She got off so lights five years, but she's not going to serve five because look what they're doing to the husband. He got a five year sentence, but he only has to serve one if they follow that logic, she's only going to serve one. Yeah, she's got three kids, which my heart goes out to those three kids. It must be hell to have a mother and father convicted of this this crime, you know, man. And as bad as I feel for the kids, it just sends the wrong message to every other shoplifting queen in the world, like you can steal millions and millions of dollars and just get She's probably only going to spend a year behind a.

It's just insane. She got off so lights five years, but she's not going to serve five because look what they're doing to the husband. He got a five year sentence, but he only has to serve one if they follow that logic, she's only going to serve one. Yeah, she's got three kids, which my heart goes out to those three kids. It must be hell to have a mother and father convicted of this this crime, you know, man. And as bad as I feel for the kids, it just sends the wrong message to every other shoplifting queen in the world, like you can steal millions and millions of dollars and just get She's probably only going to spend a year behind a.

Year and then probation granted, she has to pay restitution.

Year and then probation granted, she has to pay restitution.

But like FYI, my con artist was ordered to pay me restitution and enough fucking dime. You know how hard it is to collect restitution. And you know what she did with her new scams. She started an LLC, So that money in the LLC I can't touch with my restitution order. Restitution is this big misnomer. It's not worth the paper it's printed on. I guarantee you in my experience. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around enough fucking lawyers. I've been through this process. Restitution's bullshit, and shoplifting is already out of control. This just sends the message, Yeah, if you get caught, you're gonna get off lights. So continue as you were. Yeah, no big deal in talking to Sergeant Moraki and talking to this lost prevention guy on the front lines. He hooked me up with who you're gonna hear in the next episode, incredible stories. The real victims of Michelle Mack are you and me and everyone who buys things at stores. Because here's the deal, Walmart target Sephora. They're not going to tell their shareholders, Hey, we lost a couple hundred million this year to retail theft. So you know we'll get them next year. Sorry, we don't have a profit. No, no, no, they're just gonna jack the prices up of everything. They're still making gazillions in profit, and you know, health AFT is huge. Last year alone, stores lost more than one hundred and twenty.

But like FYI, my con artist was ordered to pay me restitution and enough fucking dime. You know how hard it is to collect restitution. And you know what she did with her new scams. She started an LLC, So that money in the LLC I can't touch with my restitution order. Restitution is this big misnomer. It's not worth the paper it's printed on. I guarantee you in my experience. I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around enough fucking lawyers. I've been through this process. Restitution's bullshit, and shoplifting is already out of control. This just sends the message, Yeah, if you get caught, you're gonna get off lights. So continue as you were. Yeah, no big deal in talking to Sergeant Moraki and talking to this lost prevention guy on the front lines. He hooked me up with who you're gonna hear in the next episode, incredible stories. The real victims of Michelle Mack are you and me and everyone who buys things at stores. Because here's the deal, Walmart target Sephora. They're not going to tell their shareholders, Hey, we lost a couple hundred million this year to retail theft. So you know we'll get them next year. Sorry, we don't have a profit. No, no, no, they're just gonna jack the prices up of everything. They're still making gazillions in profit, and you know, health AFT is huge. Last year alone, stores lost more than one hundred and twenty.

Billion dollars to that's so much money.

Billion dollars to that's so much money.

But they're not The stores aren't really losing anything. They're just raising the raising the prices, and you and I are paying through the nose for a things for sure't cost that much. And keep in mind Michelle Mack and her husband Kenneth made at least eight million dollars running their shoplifting ring over a span of more than ten years. But like Icarus, they flew too close to the sun and it all fell apart.

But they're not The stores aren't really losing anything. They're just raising the raising the prices, and you and I are paying through the nose for a things for sure't cost that much. And keep in mind Michelle Mack and her husband Kenneth made at least eight million dollars running their shoplifting ring over a span of more than ten years. But like Icarus, they flew too close to the sun and it all fell apart.

You know, it just seems like the more successful you get, the more eyes you have on you. You do wrong long enough, you know attention is going to come your way one way or another.

You know, it just seems like the more successful you get, the more eyes you have on you. You do wrong long enough, you know attention is going to come your way one way or another.

It comes back to you for sure. Next time on Queen of the Con, I sit down with a veteran loss prevention officer and undercover age of sorts that stores hire to cat shoplifters red handed, And my god, this guy's broken up some crazy shoplifting shenanigans in his time. At one point he even worked for Universal Studios. Universal Studios has lost prevention. Yes, we deal with a lot of like chomosa most's so it almost sounds like like something into a fast food restaurant. I'll take two chomos hot sauce on the side.

It comes back to you for sure. Next time on Queen of the Con, I sit down with a veteran loss prevention officer and undercover age of sorts that stores hire to cat shoplifters red handed, And my god, this guy's broken up some crazy shoplifting shenanigans in his time. At one point he even worked for Universal Studios. Universal Studios has lost prevention. Yes, we deal with a lot of like chomosa most's so it almost sounds like like something into a fast food restaurant. I'll take two chomos hot sauce on the side.

Yeah. Cha molesters, yes, pickpockets and.

Yeah. Cha molesters, yes, pickpockets and.

How do you spot a shaw moluster. If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, tell someone click that share button and send this podcast to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Con The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbean, Mastered by Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard. Voice acting by Tracy Lee,

How do you spot a shaw moluster. If you're enjoying Queen of the Con, tell someone click that share button and send this podcast to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Con The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbean, Mastered by Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard. Voice acting by Tracy Lee,