Previously on Queen of the Con.

Previously on Queen of the Con.

The California Mom is the alleged ring leader behind an eight million dollar retail theft ring.

The California Mom is the alleged ring leader behind an eight million dollar retail theft ring.

She's accused of operating a nationwide shoplifting scheme for more than a decade.

She's accused of operating a nationwide shoplifting scheme for more than a decade.

And that ringleader Michelle Mack, was using her giant four car garage as her own personal Amazon fulfillment center, selling millions in stolen merchandise while cleverly hiding her crimes from authorities and neighbors in plain sight.

And that ringleader Michelle Mack, was using her giant four car garage as her own personal Amazon fulfillment center, selling millions in stolen merchandise while cleverly hiding her crimes from authorities and neighbors in plain sight.

If I'm a police officer and I see Michelle Mack driving down the street and her land Rover, I'm not gonna think she's got a crew of people out nationwide stealing items so she can sell them in her Amazon store.

If I'm a police officer and I see Michelle Mack driving down the street and her land Rover, I'm not gonna think she's got a crew of people out nationwide stealing items so she can sell them in her Amazon store.

The California Girls.

The California Girls.

They call them the California Girls. Scott. That's just sexy and exciting, and I can't believe that's the term they're using at the CHP like we're on the California Girls case.

They call them the California Girls. Scott. That's just sexy and exciting, and I can't believe that's the term they're using at the CHP like we're on the California Girls case.

Gosh, one of those California girls, I'd be sweating.

Gosh, one of those California girls, I'd be sweating.

I know, the life of crime.

I know, the life of crime.

I'm sweating just talking about it.

I'm sweating just talking about it.

But how on earth did Michelle Mack recruit these California girls to do all her stealing for her. Come to find out, hiring a professional shoplifter is a lot easier than you might think. Were you worried at all that I might be a cop?

But how on earth did Michelle Mack recruit these California girls to do all her stealing for her. Come to find out, hiring a professional shoplifter is a lot easier than you might think. Were you worried at all that I might be a cop?

But not really.

But not really.

I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, The California Girls, Episode two, I don't shit where I eat?

I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con Season six, The California Girls, Episode two, I don't shit where I eat?

Say this aspect unloading the I from their shirt and hit them in another employee on the area, only to come.

Say this aspect unloading the I from their shirt and hit them in another employee on the area, only to come.

Back with my buddy Evan Goldstein, and I are watching a news report now about a professional Walmart shoplifter.

Back with my buddy Evan Goldstein, and I are watching a news report now about a professional Walmart shoplifter.

She gets a suitcase from Walmart, and little do they know, it's packed with eighteen thousand dollars worth of these electronics, iPads and stuff.

She gets a suitcase from Walmart, and little do they know, it's packed with eighteen thousand dollars worth of these electronics, iPads and stuff.

God, that's brilliant.

God, that's brilliant.

It's really smart. And it's like, look, here's my receipt for the suitcase. Are they really going to go inside the suitcase and look? You know, like, what's what did you pack? What eighteen thousand dollars worth of electronics did you pack in here? Ma'am getting out.

It's really smart. And it's like, look, here's my receipt for the suitcase. Are they really going to go inside the suitcase and look? You know, like, what's what did you pack? What eighteen thousand dollars worth of electronics did you pack in here? Ma'am getting out.

At this store undetected, pushing a shopping cart with the iPhones and iPads in the suitcase. So can I bounce an idea off you? Yeah? I'm trying to talk to a professional.

At this store undetected, pushing a shopping cart with the iPhones and iPads in the suitcase. So can I bounce an idea off you? Yeah? I'm trying to talk to a professional.

Shoplifter, like someone who's been in jail.

Shoplifter, like someone who's been in jail.

Like ideally one of Michelle Max's alleged shoplifter. Okay, but if I can't get one of her shoplifters because a bunch of them have been charged and are going through their court process and hearings.

Like ideally one of Michelle Max's alleged shoplifter. Okay, but if I can't get one of her shoplifters because a bunch of them have been charged and are going through their court process and hearings.

Oh yeah, No one wants to talk when yeah, when.

Oh yeah, No one wants to talk when yeah, when.

Their lawyers have advised them not to talk. Sure, but I just want to get I want to get a foothold into that world. It's this world that exists in plain sight that I never had a clue was there, and neither did you. Like they're regular looking people who go into stores and just steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff and walk away.

Their lawyers have advised them not to talk. Sure, but I just want to get I want to get a foothold into that world. It's this world that exists in plain sight that I never had a clue was there, and neither did you. Like they're regular looking people who go into stores and just steal hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff and walk away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've never kind of thought of shoplifting as like a coordinated effort. It's always been like, you know, it's like, oh, one person's just going to steal a bag they want. Like in my mind, it's always seemed like a one off kind of thing, Like it's never been this like you know, big.

I've never kind of thought of shoplifting as like a coordinated effort. It's always been like, you know, it's like, oh, one person's just going to steal a bag they want. Like in my mind, it's always seemed like a one off kind of thing, Like it's never been this like you know, big.

Network of its criminal it's an industry.

Network of its criminal it's an industry.

Yeah, that's crazy, it's never.

Yeah, that's crazy, it's never.

Yeah, So I don't want to talk to those shoplifters who like to steal one thing here and there because it's fun or exciting. I'm trying to find professional shopliad.

Yeah, So I don't want to talk to those shoplifters who like to steal one thing here and there because it's fun or exciting. I'm trying to find professional shopliad.

That sounds like it's going to be really hard to do. Like who who's going to come out and say, like, hey, right now, I'm operating in a shoplifting ring. I'm dying to talk to somebody. Hey, you know, hey, this is this is Jennifer social Security number one four eight seven eighty five, And like, like, who's gonna even who's going to come forward to like admit they're currently committing crimes.

That sounds like it's going to be really hard to do. Like who who's going to come out and say, like, hey, right now, I'm operating in a shoplifting ring. I'm dying to talk to somebody. Hey, you know, hey, this is this is Jennifer social Security number one four eight seven eighty five, And like, like, who's gonna even who's going to come forward to like admit they're currently committing crimes.

Well, I'm thinking of putting an ad on craigslist.

Well, I'm thinking of putting an ad on craigslist.

Oh okay where you know, if you want to find a slightly used model trainset, you could find it on Craigslist.

Oh okay where you know, if you want to find a slightly used model trainset, you could find it on Craigslist.

I found a lot of amazing things on craigslist. Truth be down.

I found a lot of amazing things on craigslist. Truth be down.

I don't know, man, it just sounds like I just don't It's like, first of all, like why would someone come out and tell you they're committing a crime. There's no incentive to tell you what they're doing, and it's like could not get them in trouble.

I don't know, man, it just sounds like I just don't It's like, first of all, like why would someone come out and tell you they're committing a crime. There's no incentive to tell you what they're doing, and it's like could not get them in trouble.

Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, as you might imagine, so what if if I incentivize them, What if I offer them, like a thousand dollars to talk to me?

Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, as you might imagine, so what if if I incentivize them, What if I offer them, like a thousand dollars to talk to me?

Okay, yeah, a thousand bucks is not like.

Okay, yeah, a thousand bucks is not like.

A guarantee that I'm not a cop and I'm not trying to get them arrested. I'm not trying to get them in trouble. I just want to tell their story.

A guarantee that I'm not a cop and I'm not trying to get them arrested. I'm not trying to get them in trouble. I just want to tell their story.

But don't you think a cop would say, I'll pay you just to get someone on the hook.

But don't you think a cop would say, I'll pay you just to get someone on the hook.

No, that's entropment. They can't do that. Oh, that's illegal. Like if a cop could place a cragslist at and say, hey, I'm looking for heroin dealers, I'll pay you a thousand dollars.

No, that's entropment. They can't do that. Oh, that's illegal. Like if a cop could place a cragslist at and say, hey, I'm looking for heroin dealers, I'll pay you a thousand dollars.

Like, you know, I just love the idea that, like there's all these shoplifters cruising on Craigslist looking for dying to tell their stories.

Like, you know, I just love the idea that, like there's all these shoplifters cruising on Craigslist looking for dying to tell their stories.

You know.

You know.

Well, you know, I've had a lot of luck with Craigslist in the past, and I think if we incentivize them with a thousand dollars, I think I think they might be willing to talk to me.

Well, you know, I've had a lot of luck with Craigslist in the past, and I think if we incentivize them with a thousand dollars, I think I think they might be willing to talk to me.

You know, Like a thousand bucks is great, But you know, like I don't know, I just feel like, you know, who wants to put themselves in harm's way, or you know, even if they know you're not a cop, maybe a cop hears it. Whatever. You know, maybe you should just try to promise them that you'll like disguise their ide entity or something so that they can't get out.

You know, Like a thousand bucks is great, But you know, like I don't know, I just feel like, you know, who wants to put themselves in harm's way, or you know, even if they know you're not a cop, maybe a cop hears it. Whatever. You know, maybe you should just try to promise them that you'll like disguise their ide entity or something so that they can't get out.

To good idea. Absolutely, I can disguise their voice. That's super easy. That's one little filter on the.

To good idea. Absolutely, I can disguise their voice. That's super easy. That's one little filter on the.

Audio edit and you get and then I feel like they'll feel safer to just talk.

Audio edit and you get and then I feel like they'll feel safer to just talk.

Yeah, because I won't use their name, I'll disguise their voice. I'll give them a thousand dollars.

Yeah, because I won't use their name, I'll disguise their voice. I'll give them a thousand dollars.

It's like going fishing, you know. Sometimes you throw the bait out and you just sit there and wait, and then sometimes you get something. So I guess it's kind of like that. You know, you just gotta wait and see if you see what comes back.

It's like going fishing, you know. Sometimes you throw the bait out and you just sit there and wait, and then sometimes you get something. So I guess it's kind of like that. You know, you just gotta wait and see if you see what comes back.

Yeah, I'm gonna post the album, believe me. I know. Craigslist can be a mixed bag. I mean a lot of people get scammed on Craigslist and some even wind up dead.

Yeah, I'm gonna post the album, believe me. I know. Craigslist can be a mixed bag. I mean a lot of people get scammed on Craigslist and some even wind up dead.

Investigators say a job seeker from Florida who responded to a bogus Craigslist ad for a job on a cattle farm in Ohio was found dead and buried in a shallow grave.

Investigators say a job seeker from Florida who responded to a bogus Craigslist ad for a job on a cattle farm in Ohio was found dead and buried in a shallow grave.

But in my own life, Craigslist has been nothing short of amazing. Seventeen years ago, I met the man who would become my husband on Craigslist Your Bows as a kid wo and then my husband and I found the most amazing apartment on Craigslist. We even found our giant dog, Chiquito, on Craigslist when he was just a puppy. A USC student was actually hiding him in his dorm room, and Chaquito would bark so loud when the kid went to class that he got busted. So this USC student was desperately looking for a good home for his barking puppy, and my husband and I responded to his Craigslist ad and rescue Chaquito from dorm life. And that was five years ago. Shaquito is now a giant one hundred and forty pound dog and a lot of work, but we love him. So I have nothing but immense gratitude and love for Craigslist. And I've really come to believe that life is actually a lot like Craigslist, because whatever it is you're searching for, in my experience, you will find in some form or another. So in that spirit, I put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist in the Gigs Offered section for Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

But in my own life, Craigslist has been nothing short of amazing. Seventeen years ago, I met the man who would become my husband on Craigslist Your Bows as a kid wo and then my husband and I found the most amazing apartment on Craigslist. We even found our giant dog, Chiquito, on Craigslist when he was just a puppy. A USC student was actually hiding him in his dorm room, and Chaquito would bark so loud when the kid went to class that he got busted. So this USC student was desperately looking for a good home for his barking puppy, and my husband and I responded to his Craigslist ad and rescue Chaquito from dorm life. And that was five years ago. Shaquito is now a giant one hundred and forty pound dog and a lot of work, but we love him. So I have nothing but immense gratitude and love for Craigslist. And I've really come to believe that life is actually a lot like Craigslist, because whatever it is you're searching for, in my experience, you will find in some form or another. So in that spirit, I put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist in the Gigs Offered section for Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

So this is the Craigslist ad here, yep, okay, looking to interview female shoplifters about why they do it and how they do it in an effort to get inside the mind of a professional shoplifter and tell their story. I'll disguise your identity and your voice like a muppet mom wa wah wah wah whah, and I will not report you to any authorities. Well that's a bonus. It's good you put it. It's like you know how to catch a predator. It's like you show up, the cops are there?

So this is the Craigslist ad here, yep, okay, looking to interview female shoplifters about why they do it and how they do it in an effort to get inside the mind of a professional shoplifter and tell their story. I'll disguise your identity and your voice like a muppet mom wa wah wah wah whah, and I will not report you to any authorities. Well that's a bonus. It's good you put it. It's like you know how to catch a predator. It's like you show up, the cops are there?

Were you the shoplifter? I mean, I know it's a long shot, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Were you the shoplifter? I mean, I know it's a long shot, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Right where else can you go? You know, like to try to get people to talk to But I don't know, man.

Right where else can you go? You know, like to try to get people to talk to But I don't know, man.

Regardless, I put the ad up and I wait, and what happens next? I just did not see coming after the break, Welcome back to Queen of the con. So I put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist, and I wait. I go to bed that night thinking this whole Craigslist thing might be a huge waste of time. Maybe nobody will respond. I need to figure out a better way to find some professional shoplifters to talk to. But the very next day I was pleasantly surprised, kind of shocked.

Regardless, I put the ad up and I wait, and what happens next? I just did not see coming after the break, Welcome back to Queen of the con. So I put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist, and I wait. I go to bed that night thinking this whole Craigslist thing might be a huge waste of time. Maybe nobody will respond. I need to figure out a better way to find some professional shoplifters to talk to. But the very next day I was pleasantly surprised, kind of shocked.

Really, are you getting any responses? This is what's going on with the ad dude.

Really, are you getting any responses? This is what's going on with the ad dude.

In the past twenty four hours alone, I've gotten literally hundreds and hundreds twenty four hours.

In the past twenty four hours alone, I've gotten literally hundreds and hundreds twenty four hours.

Yes, people are dying to talk.

Yes, people are dying to talk.

About not just people people claiming to be female professional shoplift.

About not just people people claiming to be female professional shoplift.

Like professionals, not just like oh you know, like I like back in the early eighties, I stole like a giant mobile phone.

Like professionals, not just like oh you know, like I like back in the early eighties, I stole like a giant mobile phone.

I mean, I'm hearing all kinds of crazy stories and my inbox is just blowing up with emails.

I mean, I'm hearing all kinds of crazy stories and my inbox is just blowing up with emails.

Like I started shoplifting really young, like five years old. I come from a family of shoplifters. It's what we do for a living. When I was a kid, my mom would use the stroller she was pushing me in to hide stuff and roll me right out of the store. No one ever suspected what was going on.

Like I started shoplifting really young, like five years old. I come from a family of shoplifters. It's what we do for a living. When I was a kid, my mom would use the stroller she was pushing me in to hide stuff and roll me right out of the store. No one ever suspected what was going on.

I'm a female shoplifter.

I'm a female shoplifter.

Sometimes I do it for the adrenaline rush, but usually just to save money. Sometimes they have nicer things out of my typical budget. I'm an actress, so my income can be quite unsteady.

Sometimes I do it for the adrenaline rush, but usually just to save money. Sometimes they have nicer things out of my typical budget. I'm an actress, so my income can be quite unsteady.

I've been shoplifting for like ten years now. I see a lot of expensive things from sex Now, Gucci, Nordstrums. Then I sell it all online. I've never been caught. Let's just say, I really look the part. No, whatever suspects I'm a shoplifter.

I've been shoplifting for like ten years now. I see a lot of expensive things from sex Now, Gucci, Nordstrums. Then I sell it all online. I've never been caught. Let's just say, I really look the part. No, whatever suspects I'm a shoplifter.

How do you know someone's not just saying this so that they could get a thousand dollars, you know, it's just making it up. Yeah, like I you know, just like, oh, thousand dollars on the table. Oh yeah, you know, I'm a shoplifter. I'm you know, I know where Jimmy hoff is buried.

How do you know someone's not just saying this so that they could get a thousand dollars, you know, it's just making it up. Yeah, like I you know, just like, oh, thousand dollars on the table. Oh yeah, you know, I'm a shoplifter. I'm you know, I know where Jimmy hoff is buried.

I love these dated references from men in their forties. Jimmy hoffa lost in the militia.

I love these dated references from men in their forties. Jimmy hoffa lost in the militia.

They still don't know where he is.

They still don't know where he is.

Yeah. So I've thought about that. And here's the thing. I've read over hundreds of pages of the court records, the criminal complaint. I've read tons of articles about Shelle mac and what you know, her alleged shoplifting ring of California girls. So I am very familiar with how professional shoplifters operate. So I'm gonna go through all of these applicants and I'm gonna sneak a question in the middle of all my questions. I'm gonna ask them like ten questions, like, hey, I'm interested in talking to you. Answer these ten questions, and like the fifth question is gonna be quote, what do you do with the stuff you steal? Question mark. Now, if you're someone pretending to be a shoplifter to get the thousand dollars, you're gonna say many things. I take it home, maybe I sell it online or whatever. That's not a professional shoplifter.

Yeah. So I've thought about that. And here's the thing. I've read over hundreds of pages of the court records, the criminal complaint. I've read tons of articles about Shelle mac and what you know, her alleged shoplifting ring of California girls. So I am very familiar with how professional shoplifters operate. So I'm gonna go through all of these applicants and I'm gonna sneak a question in the middle of all my questions. I'm gonna ask them like ten questions, like, hey, I'm interested in talking to you. Answer these ten questions, and like the fifth question is gonna be quote, what do you do with the stuff you steal? Question mark. Now, if you're someone pretending to be a shoplifter to get the thousand dollars, you're gonna say many things. I take it home, maybe I sell it online or whatever. That's not a professional shoplifter.

Yeah, it's interesting because then a lot of people aren't thinking of that next step to.

Yeah, it's interesting because then a lot of people aren't thinking of that next step to.

Exactly because it's very specific and it's something only professional. Again, there are shoplifters like you and I were when we were kids.

Exactly because it's very specific and it's something only professional. Again, there are shoplifters like you and I were when we were kids.

And you're going after like people that are stealing high volume.

And you're going after like people that are stealing high volume.

High volume. Yes, professionals. That's what I call professional shoplifting, not just someone who does it on the weekend when they're bored for the because they don't have enough money so they want to buy this. No, they're not professionals. A professional shoplifter someone who steals and sells that stuff they steal. What's super important for me to suss out in my fifth question of ten is what do you do with the stolen stuff? A professional shoplifter will tell me I sell it to a fence. So offence is what authorities call and in the shoplifting world, someone who buys stolen stuff offence. So the professional shoplifter is selling the stuff they steal to a fence. Michelle Mack is an alleged fence. What she did allegedly was run a quote fencing operation. She was allegedly buying stolen stuff and selling it cheaper than everywhere else because it was stolen. That is a question that will separate the week from the chat. So I literally spend days and days and days going over all these emails from all these purported shoplifters from Los Angeles, from Orange County, from San Diego, and some are even in Malibu. Believe it or not, they all appear to be willing to talk to me, and I report my findings back to Evan. So I've spent the past few days going over hundreds and hundreds of quote professional shoplifting applicants, and I've spoke to a few of them on the phone, and I've whittled them all down. I had three that I was considering, and then one by one, each of them ghosted me. So that tells me they were real and they got scared because I was trying the wrong approach with them. I wanted to meet them in person, and they all agreed, and then eventually when the meeting time came, they ghosted me. They stopped communicating and I can't get them back on board. So then I changed my strategy based on that, and I said, we could do the interview over zoom to make you feel more comfortable. So I narrowed it down to this one woman who's a professional shoplifter. Oh, is she a professional shoplifter. She's been doing this for like ten years.

High volume. Yes, professionals. That's what I call professional shoplifting, not just someone who does it on the weekend when they're bored for the because they don't have enough money so they want to buy this. No, they're not professionals. A professional shoplifter someone who steals and sells that stuff they steal. What's super important for me to suss out in my fifth question of ten is what do you do with the stolen stuff? A professional shoplifter will tell me I sell it to a fence. So offence is what authorities call and in the shoplifting world, someone who buys stolen stuff offence. So the professional shoplifter is selling the stuff they steal to a fence. Michelle Mack is an alleged fence. What she did allegedly was run a quote fencing operation. She was allegedly buying stolen stuff and selling it cheaper than everywhere else because it was stolen. That is a question that will separate the week from the chat. So I literally spend days and days and days going over all these emails from all these purported shoplifters from Los Angeles, from Orange County, from San Diego, and some are even in Malibu. Believe it or not, they all appear to be willing to talk to me, and I report my findings back to Evan. So I've spent the past few days going over hundreds and hundreds of quote professional shoplifting applicants, and I've spoke to a few of them on the phone, and I've whittled them all down. I had three that I was considering, and then one by one, each of them ghosted me. So that tells me they were real and they got scared because I was trying the wrong approach with them. I wanted to meet them in person, and they all agreed, and then eventually when the meeting time came, they ghosted me. They stopped communicating and I can't get them back on board. So then I changed my strategy based on that, and I said, we could do the interview over zoom to make you feel more comfortable. So I narrowed it down to this one woman who's a professional shoplifter. Oh, is she a professional shoplifter. She's been doing this for like ten years.

Wow.

Wow.

She has a bunch of different fences and she can make as much as one thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

She has a bunch of different fences and she can make as much as one thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

Wow.

Wow.

So she's the one I'm going to talk to. I had no idea it was so easy to find professional shoplifters.

So she's the one I'm going to talk to. I had no idea it was so easy to find professional shoplifters.

Well, you got hundreds of responses in a day.

Well, you got hundreds of responses in a day.

So the fact that Michelle Mack allegedly had twelve working for her full time, flying them all over the country, renting them cars, getting them hotels, furnishing them with a shopping list of what to steal. It doesn't surprise me. It's remarkably easy to do.

So the fact that Michelle Mack allegedly had twelve working for her full time, flying them all over the country, renting them cars, getting them hotels, furnishing them with a shopping list of what to steal. It doesn't surprise me. It's remarkably easy to do.

Hello.

Hello.

Okay, this is the actual recording of my first phone call with the professional shoplifter I'm talking about. She wants to go by Susan, which is not her real name.

Okay, this is the actual recording of my first phone call with the professional shoplifter I'm talking about. She wants to go by Susan, which is not her real name.

Nice to meet you, Milam's Jonathan.

Nice to meet you, Milam's Jonathan.

Nice soon.

Nice soon.

Keep in mind that is not how her voice actually sounds. We're disguising it for her protection, which is what I promised her I do as one of the conditions for her to talk openly with me.

Keep in mind that is not how her voice actually sounds. We're disguising it for her protection, which is what I promised her I do as one of the conditions for her to talk openly with me.

Thanks so much for responding. I've been getting so many responses, but everyone like beats around the bush, you know. Thanks for like being straightforward. And I'm not a cop.

Thanks so much for responding. I've been getting so many responses, but everyone like beats around the bush, you know. Thanks for like being straightforward. And I'm not a cop.

Yeah, I'm not.

Yeah, I'm not.

I mean, if you were a cop, you'd probably be like turningly out for like my name and everything and where I live.

I mean, if you were a cop, you'd probably be like turningly out for like my name and everything and where I live.

So I trust you.

So I trust you.

After that initial phone call, I send Susan a zoom link and she gets on a zoom with me.

After that initial phone call, I send Susan a zoom link and she gets on a zoom with me.

My name is Susan and I'm nine years old.

My name is Susan and I'm nine years old.

Susan actually looks a lot younger than twenty nine, though she looks like a college kid with long blonde hair up in a ponytail, hopeful eyes, and a warm smile. She's talking to me now from the passenger seat of a car being driven by her boyfriend, who is himself a professional shoplifter. They're actually both on their way to meet up with one of several fences that they sell their stolen stuff to. This fence lives far enough away from them, so Susan figured there was more than enough time to zoom with me on the way, and she was right. I also get the impression that they meet up with their various fences pretty frequently.

Susan actually looks a lot younger than twenty nine, though she looks like a college kid with long blonde hair up in a ponytail, hopeful eyes, and a warm smile. She's talking to me now from the passenger seat of a car being driven by her boyfriend, who is himself a professional shoplifter. They're actually both on their way to meet up with one of several fences that they sell their stolen stuff to. This fence lives far enough away from them, so Susan figured there was more than enough time to zoom with me on the way, and she was right. I also get the impression that they meet up with their various fences pretty frequently.

It's funny because like, were meeting up with our fence, and I was like on Craigsli's Like, I was just looking at the gigs, you know, and I was like, we were meeting up with our fence, and I was like, oh, I was like, this.

It's funny because like, were meeting up with our fence, and I was like on Craigsli's Like, I was just looking at the gigs, you know, and I was like, we were meeting up with our fence, and I was like, oh, I was like, this.

Is like this is crazy.

Is like this is crazy.

I was like, I was like, I wonder if you know, I just didn't know like if you would respond her at all that you did the next day, So I was like, okay.

I was like, I was like, I wonder if you know, I just didn't know like if you would respond her at all that you did the next day, So I was like, okay.

Cool. Susan and her boyfriend, who you'll hear quietly chiming in from time to time as we talk spend all day every day going from store to.

Cool. Susan and her boyfriend, who you'll hear quietly chiming in from time to time as we talk spend all day every day going from store to.

Store Burlington Coat Factory, Walmart, Target, CBS, Walgreens, Whole Foods, ralph Sprouts, Mother's Market, Albertson's, Nordstrum's, and Macy's.

Store Burlington Coat Factory, Walmart, Target, CBS, Walgreens, Whole Foods, ralph Sprouts, Mother's Market, Albertson's, Nordstrum's, and Macy's.

Wow, So you kind of hit everywhere. Yeah, with shopping lists in hand that their fences provide them stealing as many items on those lists as they can. I mean, it's a lot of work, but it can pay really well.

Wow, So you kind of hit everywhere. Yeah, with shopping lists in hand that their fences provide them stealing as many items on those lists as they can. I mean, it's a lot of work, but it can pay really well.

If you just get a bag full of stuff that could be like a thousand dollars a day.

If you just get a bag full of stuff that could be like a thousand dollars a day.

So you can make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

So you can make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

A couple of years ago, but now now it's a little harder to do it. You can probably make like maybe like five hundred dollars a day. Fiven years ago, nobody was doing it, you know, and so like really like now it's like every single homeless person you meet, like they know the fence, you know.

A couple of years ago, but now now it's a little harder to do it. You can probably make like maybe like five hundred dollars a day. Fiven years ago, nobody was doing it, you know, and so like really like now it's like every single homeless person you meet, like they know the fence, you know.

So you were making a thousand dollars a day five years ago and you're making five hundred of dollars a day now.

So you were making a thousand dollars a day five years ago and you're making five hundred of dollars a day now.

Yeah, how many.

Yeah, how many.

Other shoplifters in the Los Angeles Southern California area? Do you know?

Other shoplifters in the Los Angeles Southern California area? Do you know?

How many like shoflists, do you know, probably like around like fifty fifty. Yeah, wow, that's like probably within like a lot of the homeless community.

How many like shoflists, do you know, probably like around like fifty fifty. Yeah, wow, that's like probably within like a lot of the homeless community.

They are shoplifters, you know, Like I have.

They are shoplifters, you know, Like I have.

To say, you guys were homeless for a while.

To say, you guys were homeless for a while.

Yeah, yeah, we were homeless for a while. That's how we got Like that's how we got, you know, like in the crowd.

Yeah, yeah, we were homeless for a while. That's how we got Like that's how we got, you know, like in the crowd.

You know, how did you get into shoplifting?

You know, how did you get into shoplifting?

It started when I was like a little kid. It's like the instant gratification, you know. Like I would be a little kid in like the save on you know, drug stores, and I wanted these fake nails, you know, and I would steel them and my mom would like catch me.

It started when I was like a little kid. It's like the instant gratification, you know. Like I would be a little kid in like the save on you know, drug stores, and I wanted these fake nails, you know, and I would steel them and my mom would like catch me.

I would like wear these.

I would like wear these.

Fake nails and I would cut them down to like the like my natural nail length because I bite my nails. I used to buy my nails and so like I would cut them down to like my natural nail length to think that like she wouldn't catch me, and she'd like well, but sure enough, she was like where'd.

Fake nails and I would cut them down to like the like my natural nail length because I bite my nails. I used to buy my nails and so like I would cut them down to like my natural nail length to think that like she wouldn't catch me, and she'd like well, but sure enough, she was like where'd.

You get these fake nailholes?

You get these fake nailholes?

Like what are you talking about? These are my real And she's like, no, they're not. She's like where'd you get them? And I was like, well, and so she caught me in a lie. You know, I wasn't doing it for a while, and then after she kicked me out, you know, and I was on my own. It kind of just like started from there.

Like what are you talking about? These are my real And she's like, no, they're not. She's like where'd you get them? And I was like, well, and so she caught me in a lie. You know, I wasn't doing it for a while, and then after she kicked me out, you know, and I was on my own. It kind of just like started from there.

The reason Susan got kicked out of the house is just heartbreaking. I mean, Susan and her mom never had a great relationship to begin with, and a tragic twist of fate would only make things worse after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Khan. Our professional shoplifter. Susan is explaining how and why she got into shoplifting, and it has a lot to do with her getting kicked out of the house as a teenager.

The reason Susan got kicked out of the house is just heartbreaking. I mean, Susan and her mom never had a great relationship to begin with, and a tragic twist of fate would only make things worse after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Khan. Our professional shoplifter. Susan is explaining how and why she got into shoplifting, and it has a lot to do with her getting kicked out of the house as a teenager.

I grew up down in Elisa Yeho.

I grew up down in Elisa Yeho.

A city in Orange County, about an hour south of Los Angeles.

A city in Orange County, about an hour south of Los Angeles.

I was very sheltered as a child.

I was very sheltered as a child.

My dad had answer when I was in eighth grade, and I lost him to cancer at eighteen.

My dad had answer when I was in eighth grade, and I lost him to cancer at eighteen.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, And like we still haven't even had a funeral for him, you know, like there's been a lot of mourning and not like like chloo, like not like everything's just like stops, you know, because my mom. My mom's been like touring the country and like or touring like the world.

Yeah, And like we still haven't even had a funeral for him, you know, like there's been a lot of mourning and not like like chloo, like not like everything's just like stops, you know, because my mom. My mom's been like touring the country and like or touring like the world.

So, your your father passed away eleven years ago and you still haven't had a funeral.

So, your your father passed away eleven years ago and you still haven't had a funeral.

Yeah, why because my mom isn't ready or something.

Yeah, why because my mom isn't ready or something.

I don't know.

I don't know.

She doesn't tell us why, and like she he left her, Like my mom doesn't ever have to work a day in her life, but she does whatever she wants to do with the money.

She doesn't tell us why, and like she he left her, Like my mom doesn't ever have to work a day in her life, but she does whatever she wants to do with the money.

And so it sounds like your your father left your mother a lot of money and she's just what been partying this whole time and not aving a funeral.

And so it sounds like your your father left your mother a lot of money and she's just what been partying this whole time and not aving a funeral.

She says that she can't deal with drama very well, but in like life, like that's kind of like what you have to deal with. A long time ago, I went to jail for something that like, and I was like kind of like joking about it with her, and she's.

She says that she can't deal with drama very well, but in like life, like that's kind of like what you have to deal with. A long time ago, I went to jail for something that like, and I was like kind of like joking about it with her, and she's.

Like, that's not funny.

Like, that's not funny.

What were you in jail for.

What were you in jail for.

It was an ex boyfriend. It was like self defense. He was like hitting me. It was like right when I moved to Sacramento, and so he left me at the house and then his mom like called the cops on me. They were like, oh, so you hit your boyfriend.

It was an ex boyfriend. It was like self defense. He was like hitting me. It was like right when I moved to Sacramento, and so he left me at the house and then his mom like called the cops on me. They were like, oh, so you hit your boyfriend.

I was like no.

I was like no.

I was like, it was self defense, but there was like no proof of that. And so like with the cops, whoever calls the cops first, and in domestic.

I was like, it was self defense, but there was like no proof of that. And so like with the cops, whoever calls the cops first, and in domestic.

Violence they win pretty much like because like.

Violence they win pretty much like because like.

Whoever calls the cops first, the second person always has to go to jail.

Whoever calls the cops first, the second person always has to go to jail.

So his mother called the cops on you because she didn't like you.

So his mother called the cops on you because she didn't like you.

Yeah, she told me that I was like Satan. He was like a MoMA's boy to the extreme. In her eyes, her son could do no. And he was like a big fraud. He was into like like fraud, you know. And I didn't know that. And then when I found out, I flipped out and I was like, you're ruining people's lives. He's like, well, like what are you doing? You know, because I started that's when I started shoplifting. Really, I was like, I'm not ruining people's credit, you know, Like I was like, you're stealing people's money and like fucking like digging through their email, dirty like digging through their dirty laundry, you know.

Yeah, she told me that I was like Satan. He was like a MoMA's boy to the extreme. In her eyes, her son could do no. And he was like a big fraud. He was into like like fraud, you know. And I didn't know that. And then when I found out, I flipped out and I was like, you're ruining people's lives. He's like, well, like what are you doing? You know, because I started that's when I started shoplifting. Really, I was like, I'm not ruining people's credit, you know, Like I was like, you're stealing people's money and like fucking like digging through their email, dirty like digging through their dirty laundry, you know.

According to Susan, her boyfriend at the time was a real life identity thief. He'd steal people's info and run up credit in their names. He'd also sell their info to other criminals who do the same thing. And of course his mother was oblivious.

According to Susan, her boyfriend at the time was a real life identity thief. He'd steal people's info and run up credit in their names. He'd also sell their info to other criminals who do the same thing. And of course his mother was oblivious.

And so she didn't know like any of that. She didn't know he was doing any of that, like, you know, because.

And so she didn't know like any of that. She didn't know he was doing any of that, like, you know, because.

He was like writing check and I was like, you know, you don't know what your son's doing. He lost his job because he was doing fraud at his work, you know, and she.

He was like writing check and I was like, you know, you don't know what your son's doing. He lost his job because he was doing fraud at his work, you know, and she.

Didn't know that he was even doing that. And I'm not gonna like just smitch him.

Didn't know that he was even doing that. And I'm not gonna like just smitch him.

Out like that because I don't.

Out like that because I don't.

Carmel will come back to him like when it's his time.

Carmel will come back to him like when it's his time.

So, I mean, you make a good point in your mind. You're stealing from these multi billion dollar corporations and stores, you're not hurting anybody, whereas he's stealing people's identities and ruining their credit and ruining their lives.

So, I mean, you make a good point in your mind. You're stealing from these multi billion dollar corporations and stores, you're not hurting anybody, whereas he's stealing people's identities and ruining their credit and ruining their lives.

Yeah. Yeah, there's like a line. Some people like cross that line super easily. You know.

Yeah. Yeah, there's like a line. Some people like cross that line super easily. You know.

I don't shit where I eat in terms of like my friends and my family. I don't steal from my friends.

I don't shit where I eat in terms of like my friends and my family. I don't steal from my friends.

Or my family.

Or my family.

I refuse to do that from people, you know, like like hardworking people who like work their ass off to just get where they are, you know, in today's world, because it's like that's what I'm trying to do. There's just some plaint like klet bomaniacs, you know, who just like love to steal like everything, because like I mean, these multi billion dollar companies, like they have insurance. It's like a victimless crime almost, so to speak.

I refuse to do that from people, you know, like like hardworking people who like work their ass off to just get where they are, you know, in today's world, because it's like that's what I'm trying to do. There's just some plaint like klet bomaniacs, you know, who just like love to steal like everything, because like I mean, these multi billion dollar companies, like they have insurance. It's like a victimless crime almost, so to speak.

I understand how you can think of it that way. I mean, yeah, it's it's certainly the lesser of two evils. If you're comparing it so that boyfriend you had who was stealing people's identities and ruining their credit. That hurts people, whereas taking you know, diapers from Target. Like who's that really hurting? Is your question?

I understand how you can think of it that way. I mean, yeah, it's it's certainly the lesser of two evils. If you're comparing it so that boyfriend you had who was stealing people's identities and ruining their credit. That hurts people, whereas taking you know, diapers from Target. Like who's that really hurting? Is your question?

Yeah exactly.

Yeah exactly.

I mean, like there's people who have jobs now because of because of us, you know, because of lost prevention.

I mean, like there's people who have jobs now because of because of us, you know, because of lost prevention.

Let me see if I can follow you here. You're creating jobs for people by.

Let me see if I can follow you here. You're creating jobs for people by.

Yeah exactly, that there would be no loss prevention.

Yeah exactly, that there would be no loss prevention.

I mean, you're not wrong. I've never thought of it that way.

I mean, you're not wrong. I've never thought of it that way.

It's a whole industry. Wow, we're helping people get jobs get paid.

It's a whole industry. Wow, we're helping people get jobs get paid.

Yeah, you're quite the you're quite the philosophy. I eventually circle back with Susan to her acrimonious relationship with her mother. So her father died of cancer when she was eighteen, and he was kind of a wealthy guy, it sounds like, and Susan's mother took the money he left her and has just been traveling the world having adventures ever since. Meanwhile, she hasn't held a funeral for Susan's father in the eleven years since he died.

Yeah, you're quite the you're quite the philosophy. I eventually circle back with Susan to her acrimonious relationship with her mother. So her father died of cancer when she was eighteen, and he was kind of a wealthy guy, it sounds like, and Susan's mother took the money he left her and has just been traveling the world having adventures ever since. Meanwhile, she hasn't held a funeral for Susan's father in the eleven years since he died.

My mom's a cyclist.

My mom's a cyclist.

She's got multi thousand dollars bikes, you know, and she can't deal with drama. She likes to escape like her problem. Like she's been in Africa this last like a couple months or whatever, like just like cycling. Like there's this Instagram feed, you know, it shows them like cycling these like barren deserts.

She's got multi thousand dollars bikes, you know, and she can't deal with drama. She likes to escape like her problem. Like she's been in Africa this last like a couple months or whatever, like just like cycling. Like there's this Instagram feed, you know, it shows them like cycling these like barren deserts.

But that's what she likes, you know, that's what she does.

But that's what she likes, you know, that's what she does.

Like her addiction is fucking is exercising.

Like her addiction is fucking is exercising.

You know, what did your dad do for a living before he died.

You know, what did your dad do for a living before he died.

He was a director of corporate sales for Nvidio, which is a computer graphic company.

He was a director of corporate sales for Nvidio, which is a computer graphic company.

So he left your mom well off, and your mom just is spending all that money living traveling the world, cycling with her thousand dollars bicycle.

So he left your mom well off, and your mom just is spending all that money living traveling the world, cycling with her thousand dollars bicycle.

And she sold the house for one point five million dollars and she sold all my stuff in it, you know, And like I said, she kind of wrote me off, like after my dad died.

And she sold the house for one point five million dollars and she sold all my stuff in it, you know, And like I said, she kind of wrote me off, like after my dad died.

Why how did that happen?

Why how did that happen?

Because like when my dad was going through cancer, it was like really hard to see him kind of just deteriorating, and so I didn't really want to be like.

Because like when my dad was going through cancer, it was like really hard to see him kind of just deteriorating, and so I didn't really want to be like.

At the house.

At the house.

And I kind of started drinking at a younger age. It's funny because I don't even drink now, but she thought that I was going to turn into like this like full blown like alcoholic, but I don't even drink now.

And I kind of started drinking at a younger age. It's funny because I don't even drink now, but she thought that I was going to turn into like this like full blown like alcoholic, but I don't even drink now.

I don't even smoke cigarettes.

I don't even smoke cigarettes.

Wow, I can understand. You know, you're a teenager. Your dad's dying. That's stressful. Who wouldn't drink? I get it.

Wow, I can understand. You know, you're a teenager. Your dad's dying. That's stressful. Who wouldn't drink? I get it.

She kicked me out of the house because I guess I had drinken like one of her and my dad's like really expensive bottles of wine or something that she didn't like that she couldn't replace or something.

She kicked me out of the house because I guess I had drinken like one of her and my dad's like really expensive bottles of wine or something that she didn't like that she couldn't replace or something.

I don't know. Oh my god, yeah, three days after he died.

I don't know. Oh my god, yeah, three days after he died.

Ever since then, I've kind of just been like on my own, like just kind of like figuring shit out, like as it goes, you know, like they really didn't teach me about life, you know, like dealing with life on life's terms, you know.

Ever since then, I've kind of just been like on my own, like just kind of like figuring shit out, like as it goes, you know, like they really didn't teach me about life, you know, like dealing with life on life's terms, you know.

So Susan gets kicked out of the house when she's eighteen years old. This is around late twenty thirteen. At that point, she was living in Elisa Viejo, about an hour south of Los Angeles. She then moves to Sacramento with a boyfriend whose mother thinks she's Satan and calls the cops on her and gets her arrested. Meanwhile, that boyfriend is really the evil one stealing people's identities. So Susan eventually breaks up with that boyfriend and gets another boyfriend, the guy who's driving the car she's in right now. How did you become homeless and how long were you homeless?

So Susan gets kicked out of the house when she's eighteen years old. This is around late twenty thirteen. At that point, she was living in Elisa Viejo, about an hour south of Los Angeles. She then moves to Sacramento with a boyfriend whose mother thinks she's Satan and calls the cops on her and gets her arrested. Meanwhile, that boyfriend is really the evil one stealing people's identities. So Susan eventually breaks up with that boyfriend and gets another boyfriend, the guy who's driving the car she's in right now. How did you become homeless and how long were you homeless?

For?

For?

We because we came down here, like for a court date, Like my boyfriend had a court date down here.

We because we came down here, like for a court date, Like my boyfriend had a court date down here.

Was it a shoplifting court thing?

Was it a shoplifting court thing?

Yeah, it was a petty theft. And then after that because of the Grapevine, the grape vine like ruined our car and we kind of got stuck down here.

Yeah, it was a petty theft. And then after that because of the Grapevine, the grape vine like ruined our car and we kind of got stuck down here.

So the grape Vine is what they call a perilous stretch of Interstate five just on the outskirts of Los Angeles County. It's a very steep section of highway that causes a lot of accidents, right to that breaking news from the Grapevine where two big rigs slammed into each other, creating a big mess. Also, driving up that steep incline on the grape Vine for miles and miles causes a lot of car engines to overheat and just shut off.

So the grape Vine is what they call a perilous stretch of Interstate five just on the outskirts of Los Angeles County. It's a very steep section of highway that causes a lot of accidents, right to that breaking news from the Grapevine where two big rigs slammed into each other, creating a big mess. Also, driving up that steep incline on the grape Vine for miles and miles causes a lot of car engines to overheat and just shut off.

We went up the grape Vine and literally it like like caused our car to almost like explode.

We went up the grape Vine and literally it like like caused our car to almost like explode.

So Susan and her boyfriend were homeless at that point, living out of their broken down car.

So Susan and her boyfriend were homeless at that point, living out of their broken down car.

We kind of came down here and have been stuck down in Orange County kind of just trying to make a living, you know, like trying to like.

We kind of came down here and have been stuck down in Orange County kind of just trying to make a living, you know, like trying to like.

And I'm really conflicted about telling you what Susan does next, because I don't want to tempt anyone listening into doing it. I mean, on the one hand, it's kind of genius and a super easy way to get a lot of cash, and it's technically not shoplifting. Wow, you just blew my mind. I never knew that was a thing. But on the other hand, it's just plain wrong. And yet it's fool proof and literally anyone can get a lot of cash doing it.

And I'm really conflicted about telling you what Susan does next, because I don't want to tempt anyone listening into doing it. I mean, on the one hand, it's kind of genius and a super easy way to get a lot of cash, and it's technically not shoplifting. Wow, you just blew my mind. I never knew that was a thing. But on the other hand, it's just plain wrong. And yet it's fool proof and literally anyone can get a lot of cash doing it.

We met this kid who was like homeless and he had no idea how to make money, and so we told him about that and we blew his mind too, and we're like, We're like, yeah, he's He's like, no, like I can make money like this.

We met this kid who was like homeless and he had no idea how to make money, and so we told him about that and we blew his mind too, and we're like, We're like, yeah, he's He's like, no, like I can make money like this.

I was like, Yeah, if you're enjoying Queen of the con tell someone click that share button and send this pot cast to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Cohn The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by Me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam mastered by Justin Longerbean legal counsel for AYR Media, Janny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting by milan Faxis, Tracy Lee and jay Anela

I was like, Yeah, if you're enjoying Queen of the con tell someone click that share button and send this pot cast to anyone you think might be into it. Also, if you can leave us a five star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Cohn The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by Me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch, Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam mastered by Justin Longerbean legal counsel for AYR Media, Janny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting by milan Faxis, Tracy Lee and jay Anela