Point God is a production of I Heart Radio. You know I'd never forget man I played. I was playing some pick up with Tim Hardaway one time. After a couple of after a couple of plays, He's like, okay, and then he put his hard hat on and he start going at me. But I was but I was all right with that. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, my people, we are back. The Point God Podcast, presented by Slick on I Heart Media. I am your host, Baron Davis a k A. Boom Diesel a k a be Diddy, and the Point Goud Podcast is basically a deep dive into the minds of some of the greatest point guards to ever do it. The decision making, the leadership, the journey to know how, the why. We're gonna have an opportunity to see how these artists pay, how these artists lead, and how these artists created who they were as their own one of one Point God. Now, ladies and gentlemen, we have been rocket and roll it and I'm trying to tell you I don't even know where to start. When you talk about Point God, when you talk about West West, when you talk about a problem hailing from Portland's Oregon two times Oregon Player of the Year on two Arizona, where he turned Arizona into some real wild Cats packed team Player of the Year, finished with number finished number one in threes in Arizona School history. It ain't Jason Terry, it ain't Mike Bibby, second in points, fourth and assists. Was the first ever pick by the Toronto Raptors when they entered the in b A. His homies called him Biggie, fans call the Mighty Mouse. He was an architect, a designer, a superhero. He has superpowers. He had the ability to have an imprint with his spirit, his soul, his candor, his antics, his showmanship. He was one of one. He was unstoppable, unguardable, ladies and gentlemen. He was a problem, the definition of a real point god as they do it against our lives, ladies and gentlemen. I present to you, David start um r Crazy. I told y'all, told y'all, told you what I've done. The man. For a while there, I didn't know you was talking about cool. That's a hell little intro man, that's a hell of look. Look. Thank you, thank you man. I appreciate that I really do. Man, Yeah, man, you know how we go. Man. I remember when I was at U C l A. And we was playing Oregon and he was playing for the Portland trail Blazers, and he was like, man, can't gave me a meal, you know what I mean, let me eat with you, you know what I mean, Let me kick it with you know, with with with your family, with your brothers. It was almost like like I don't know what you I don't know if you knew, but like what you did for me and Earl, you know what I mean at that time, At that time, you know what I mean. You know, it was just like damn dog like like he cool, like this motherfucker cool like this, like oh you can you can be cool, you know what I mean, because you did go to Arizona. So we you know, we didn't we we didn't know. We didn't know, and it was like damn okay, like maybe we should it went to Arizona. You know what I mean. You know, it's crazy. It's crazy because I was, you know, when I was asked to be on your show, you know, and I was thinking and I was thinking about the first time we met, and I said, man, I remember that, you know, going down to your vote. You guys played Oregon Um. After the game, I came back to the hotel sitting up in the room. We talked, man, and we talked, damn, they're all night man all night. Then I drove back and then I drove back to Portland and I drove back to Portland's and you know, it's crazy because I remember, I remember being in the room, and you know, I can't remember everybody who was on that team, but I was like, they ain't they loaded, y'all. Y'all was loaded, man, y'all was loaded. Y'all. Y'all had a crew. Man, y'all had a crew. Y'all hung together, y'all was for each other. Like you can see the camaraderie that y'all had, now, you know, that was always nice to see. Yeah, No, everybody was like, yo, damn stardom. Man was like, what man, let's go down there bro for real? You know, man, But you know, uh, one on, thanks thanks for coming on the show. You know. For me, it's just like I get a chance to give roses to people that I went to battle with, you know what I mean. People are looked up to people I admire and you know, like you know, just talking about like the air that we came up in, you know what I mean, It was like you know, everybody was a king of a castle if he was a point guard in the NBA, you know what I mean. And so you know, we we we played in a generation where we want your head, you know what I mean, And you don't feel comfortable unless the head is off, you know what I mean. The gang gotta be over. You know what I mean, The gang gotta be completely over. You know what I mean for there to be kind of like you know it was, it was it was really we were real territorial, you know what I mean. And like you know, for us in this show is like I want to take it back right because you know, we know you are juggering out on all levels, you know what I'm saying. Like we want to know like growing up right in Oregon, what attracted you to basketball and what like what was life like growing up? And like when did basketball you know, like become a thing for you, you know, be the basketball is in my blood. You know a lot of people some people know, some people don't. But you know my uh, you know, my dad he got drafted. He played at Portland State. He was the he's the second all time leading scorer UM in Portland State history, behind you know somebody that I know all of l a no free you know, and and uh him and my uncle, my dad was drafted by the Seattle superstigus. He never played an NBA UM, but he was a heck of a player. My uncle, my uncle was drafted, uh in the NFL draft, um, you know, by the Detroit Lions. Um. You know my aunties, they got scholarships, you know, my cousins. You know obviously Seline, you know Antoine, you know, started at Georgetown, transferred to Oregon. You know, it's a whole lot of Yeah. The lineage, the lineage of the start of my name in Portland, you know, runs about four or five decades, and so it just kind of was in my blood and uh, you know growing up. Um, you know, just like anybody, you know, you catch you get that ball, man, you just fall in love. You fall in love with it. You know. I was always groomed by older people, but I had I had older mentors. I didn't, you know, guys, guys, my age. I went to school, obviously I was with guys my age. But when it came to sports, I was always advanced, right, Yes, So I always played. Yes, I always played a couple a couple of years at ahead of my ahead of my peer group. And I'll never forget it. So my mother, you know, she worked the Lodden and so I was always with my grandmother. So if I wasn't with my mom, I was with my grandmother. So I went to school across the street from my grandmother, and I used to I was bouncing off the walls a lot, you know, just like yeah, my uncle. So my uncle came. My uncle came and he was like, man, I'm gonna take you up to this community center, you know. And I was in the third grade. So the name of the community center was Matt Dishman. Most people called it Not Street. So I go up there, man, yeah, it was called it was on Not Street, and it was really called Matt Dishman Community Center. And so and so that's where like I played on my first organized team, you know. And so you know it's crazy, man, because you play on these organized teams, like when you get older, like it's like I'll be telling my sons, you know, being forty eight. Now, I'm like, you know, when I think back to like going up to Maddician, I was like, man, that's where I got into my first fight. That's where I got my first winning a fight. I got my butt wolf, Um, that's where you went to dances. It was it was the community center, you know what I mean. And uh, you know that's kind of where that's kind of where I got my starting and and and the crazy thing about it at that time, that's the first time I met too Real Brandon so to Real was older than me, trial three or four years older, and it was the first time I had met ter Real, So you know, it was crazy. Um, you know, So that's how that's that was. That was like that was like my introduction the team sports, you know, because before that time I had never been on a team. And and and I remember and it was our mass embarrassing because the first game we played, I was on the fifth They put me on the fifth grade team in the third grade, so I was already small from my side. And uh, you know, man, we had we had white T shirts because we we couldn't we didn't have so we had white T shirts. We had we had to write with the sharpness our numbers on the jersey, and they told us to bring They told us to bring. I can't remember what color shorts we had, but they told us all to bring the same color short. Then we go and play some team and they beat the hell out of us in that first game, and man, I'm crying, and my mother like, boy, you better. You know my mother she was just like always like you're not You're not doing all that. But that was my introduction into it, man, And I remember it like it was just today, yo, yo yo. We gotta tap in real quick. Let's hear a quick word from our sponsors. And then and then I would say, like, now you in it? Right? At what point did you realize like Okay, like I can make a name, you know what I mean, Like like hey, I'm about to like I got a gift, you know what I mean? Like when did that happen? From that point? You know the craziest thing about it, um that year I probably lost there. I lost the most games that I ever lost in grade school in that one year playing up. But then I realized, like the dudes I was playing with, although they was cool, there was my partners. I was like, man, they're not serious. They they don't really want to do this, and quite frankly, they weak. You know, like a week if they defer into a third grader, it was t shirt. Damn, they come down to his knee, you know, a week, you know, so you know that's you know, the next year. The next year, I come back and play. I played great up um, but I was always young for my age, so uh played great up Then I come back that following your play again and we're on fifth on this year, I played my age group through in the fifth grade and we were really good. Wed to it was. It was the first time I went to Nationals. And so for most people don't know, like everything is so watered down that right, But when I remember when Nationals. To get the Nationals, you had to win state. So you had to win your state, what was Oregon. Then you had to win regional. You had to win regional, so you had to win Washington. You had to win so now you had to beat the teams from Washington all the surrounding teams to get the Nationals. Then Nationals it was only it was only eight teams. So it's kind of like the Little League World Series. So you got to that point, and you know, that was that was that was the first time that I got to play on that type of stage. And that's when I've seen in my skill level was just as good as anybody else is in the country in my age group. And so that right there, and I made All tournament team, and that right there gave me the utmost confidence. Then I came back the next year because of my age. So my birthday is crazy, so I had that bordering birthday. I had a late birthday. But my mother never put me back. Looked, I know that's a sensitive su She never held me. But my mother wasn't holding me back to no damn basketball. But I was always able to play a year I was able to play a year ahead in a year back, and then a year back. I played a year back in a national tournament in the in the AU tournament again but this time and this time we got to the semi finals and I was voted and I was m v P. And so that really that really liked took me over to HUM. So the grade school journey b D was was one where I've seen I've seen myself evolved, you know, the whole time, and and I do tell this story because they're part of my journey. And I know you being from you know, being from so Cow, you know exactly who I'm talking about. You know. I remember in seventh grade, UM, that was the first time that I've seen I've seen a AU team Victoria Park from from out from out from Mountain so Cow. And you know is crazy because I was the first time I played against Tyas. But I didn't know that was I didn't I didn't know, Um, but it was it was. It was a great moment for me because they were really good. They had a lot of play, they had a lot of good players, UM, and as I went it was like they were like the barometer, and they were like the bar And so then what happened is as I went on the high school, and I know you would probably touch it, but as I went on the high school, lo and Behold. Going into my senior year, I end up playing on that on on vp UM. But we were called Team Long Beach at that time, and I ended up playing with tas they had added they had added Chief Cherokee Parks. So now we had got to the point that you know, now I had went from being little kids and you know, I had elevated, but you know, none of that. I didn't know that. I did not know that it got so it got so bad, and it got so bad right like when I was younger, because it wasn't a lot of people that came out of Portland Um at that time. You know. It used to, you know, at times when I would go out of town and play people with think I was from Cali, and I'm like, I'm not from Cathy. I'm not I'm not from Cali. I'm from Portland, Organ manybody in Porlan, Oregon. I'm like, you know, I was like a lot of people don't know their history. I always like to say this, you u c l a guys, so you know, because it's pictures real big up in that practice. Washington, come on, man, Richard Washington's number one picked bess in high school Portland, Oregon. Yet and and and uh, you know, so I took a lot of pride in being from a small town being able to go out and do the things that I did, man, and and and kind of opening up doors for the people that came behind me. I felt like, like you know, TV Terrell, he started it, but I just didn't feel like he got the national exposure right, but but he put off, but he put on enough. He put on enough in college that it was able to empower me. And so now they was gonna come back and they wanted to see because didn't nobody want to miss it. Wasn't gonna miss After TV who went the leven pick in the drem All Star Chiller, I don't. I don't think they wanted to miss on the next one. So I feel like that really helped me as well. Yeah, I like that man. Uh, you know, I was gonna ask and we always asked, like who was that dude that you kind of looked up to from you know, from your area. That was like your trajectory and barometer. But you know, shout out to TV Terrell Brandon, one of the legends. I remember playing against that dude. I think he had like eight like he like I never felt like eighteen points make you feel like fucked up, you know what I mean? Like he had eighteen points, that's all he had, But he kicked my ask dog every time pull up off the pick and roll. But it wasn't even about the points. He knew he was gonna get his money. You know what I mean is that like, is that like the mentality you know what I mean that y'all had like coming out of you know, coming out of Portland's like you know, like where's that that that scores? You know, it's like a scores mentality, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I think that there's been a lot of great scores out of a lot of good players. But yeah, I didn't get the exposure, you know what I'm saying at that time. You know, I look at TV, you know, and I mean, dude, he won state a couple of times in high school. Um, he won the long jump in high school. He goes to Oregon, he sits out of the year, then he comes back his first year in the pack average like twentysoth, comes back averages damn the thirty and declares for the draft. It was just like, you know, he the things that he did, the way he did it, you know, he was you know, he was like the guy wanted to emulate. He was the guy. You know, I went to the high school games and grade school games. I wanted to watch him. And it was a mentality that he had, and it was you know, it was something else passed on and we used to always just say, man, it was you gotta get your money. That was that was like, that was the older guys, most older guys. You know, by the time I got to you know, the reputation starts to proceed yourself from by the time I got the seventh grade, I mean everybody, yeah, you know, you were coming to the games. Um, you know, the same thing as as you go throughout high school. They here, you're gonna play in a summer league game. You know, I can remember a lot of guys coming, you know, um, a lot of younger guys you know, uh coming uh, you know to the games and different things. But it was just like, man, just get your money. But we always we played a lot outside. That's how we we That's how we say we got our jump shots. You know, because you're playing on double rams with chains, the wind might be blowing. You gotta know how to shoot. You gotta know angels, you gotta you gotta know what you're doing. So, you know, it was it was that scores mentality that a lot of us, that a lot of us had. But for me growing up, you know, it started it started seeing him, you know, it started it started seeing him what he was able to do. Um. You know, but like I said, you know, it was a badge of honor. Uh, you know, to be able to do the things that I had started to create, you know, grade school and high school wise before I got to college. Um. Yeah, because in high school you want you want two states? He won seventy four and four right, um ship, Like you know, by the time high school, it was like what was that? Like, you know, just being being from a small town and I don't consider Portland a small town. Uh, but being from a small city, a smaller city, yeah, smaller, smaller city, Yeah, smaller city. Being from a smaller city, and like now you know, Wilson Hide popping, you know what I mean to states? Like talk about the pressure right of making the decision to go to the university, like choosing the University of Arizona over being a hometown favorite. How did that happen? You know? I was, I was I needed to go. I needed to get out and grow up. And I think that number one for a lot of people that's not from the state of Oregon, they wouldn't know like or you know, you just look at all the success to Oregon is had because man, Oregon on the hell of a run in terms of what they're doing. But they didn't have it like that back then. And you know that because you played they were playing in Matt Court. They always had I thought a really good fan basis when they were, but it just wasn't. It wasn't. And I just think that they still that's that, that's that, that's that, that's that camp. We got wet Jodan, we got we got Jordan now too. Now, it was that's another story. You know, you guys jumped to Jordan's brand. Man, you guys trying to make way that's a game. I'm not gonna that's a game changer. That's a that's a game changer for so like real though. But but yeah, no, but it was. It was one of them things where I just felt I had to get away. Um, I needed to grow up. You know, Colleges, colleges for me at that time, it was I felt like going to Arizona would impact younger, younger guys as well that was coming after me because we just hadn't seen that before. Like when I went to When I went to Arizona, there was such a big deal, you know because I felt like a game. Dudes in the hood in the community is like, man, he going to Arizona. Yeah, so going the Arion on. It also was was critical for me not to come home now, you know, because the first thing I said was, now you hit a little bit of adversity. If you hit that adversity, you can't come home. Yea. So I remember, And it wasn't even though adversity. I was just homesick. I remember. I remember I called my mother and I was like, I need to come home. She was like, I don't got nothing for you. Not coming back here. You're not coming back here. And then, you know, I think that, Um, for me, like I said, it was just the playing for a holiday who turned into a Hall of Fame coach Ludosan playing playing on the platform, and I was able to play on at Arizona. Um, I think that it just it catapulted me and it put me on another level. And even even as I went through my four years, you know, as I as I moved further on, I say to myself, you know, like damn, you know, I what I did, what I ended up doing in Arizona helped inspire the next way. Baby, don't go the Arizona. It's not a damon. Come on you, Jason Terry, he doesn't go to Arizona if it's not a damon stout of myr blueprint. I think the rain is you can keep start, you know, all the dope comes, everything, everything that came behind it. It was like a badger honor for me. So that is so the empowerment of that, you know, being from Portland, Oregon, I think has always been something that I cherished. Man, what what what was it like playing in the packed team? It was it was only ten teams? You know, it's crazy, it was was it a battle? I mean, it wasn't that a battle every night? You know what I mean? Like, let's let like the the year, right, I'll take it all the way back. So I'll take it back to so because you know, obviously us and you guys, you guys, Arizona UCLA, it was just such an intense rival, you know, and it was it was it was one of them rivalries that unless you was a part of it in that time. Even today, like Arizona uc l A. They they're good, they're cool, but it's never gonna it's never gonna be like that. Again, hated each other, but but you know what they will be. It was like I think we all hated each other, but because because we knew everybody was really good. Yeah, I don j T was talking about that, and then you know, I had Babby on the show, so I'm like, man, you know I'm coming in there, like Baby was like, dog, I never met somebody that like came at me the way you did. And I was like, don I never met somebody who was just made my life difficult, you know what I mean. It was like that Arizona U c l A thing. That's a man, that's a real thing, you know. So it's funny. You know, I'll never forget this. So my freshman year, the first time we played, the first time we play um U c l A. We play him at at Arizona. I think we had like a ninety game winning Street and Claude Claude Mills, Chris Mills. I used to wear the leather suit. Dude, I seen with a with a cell phone and he had that Wolfman jack boys. Hey baby, you know that at that yes, So he was like, you know these boys coming up in here, man, they you know, they want to get at of X Y and Z and I didn't really I didn't really know the extreme of the rivalry about it. But until you actually in the game, you don't know. And so then I'm like, wow, look at this, Like wow, That's all I can say. And as I look back seven years later, I think it might have been fifteen pros in that game between both teams. So it doesn't matter if I if I'm talking to T Murray, if I see Gerald Mackins, d Martin, I'm acclaimed, tires Ny, George z din Eddio coming off the surgery, like you can go on and on and on, Damon Stardom, Chris Mills, Clid Reads Stokes, Sean Rooks. I mean, yeah, it was just so I didn't really understand the magnitude of that. But anyway, we end up losing that game and U c l A broke our wind streak and Derek Martin when it shot over me, Yeah, I went back. I went back to my dorm. I went back to my dorm room, right and I cried like a baby. I cried like a baby, A dope. I just I felt I felt like I felt like he broke the streak on me. It was but it was but it was but you know what it was. It was a great moment. Uh. It was one that made me grow as a player, and it made me girl as a person. You know what I'm saying, Because it was you know, I was really hard on myself, you know, but that was that that rivalry. Um, you know, it was one for the ages. And and like I said, tires Dee Martin, Um, you know you you played, you played against Kyle. They had Jay Kidd. You play against Stanford, they had Brevin Knight. Um. Uh, Cal also had Lamm Hurd. Uh. You know, there were there were so many There were so many good guards that good guards in my position, but just in general, good players that came through, came through that league. And it was guys that you know, I felt like today they would be pros, but they not pros. They weren't pros in that era. But in this area, I feel I feel like they would be pros. And I'm probably missing missing someone. I mean, even um, Washington State, I remember they had been Celsen. Dude by the name of Benny Seltzer man. Bennie Selzer could play. Bennie Seltzer averaged about seventeen a game, Benny was nice. You know. They had Tyrese Maxi's dad with the Philadelphia seventy six is Tyrone Maxi Tyrone. It was dudes, it was. It was Minnie Gellerson I think played Dominick Gellison came through there. So they had dues. Usc USC had dudes when I first got in the league. They had They had Harold Harold mind who you know they had they had then they end up eventually and I thought he was a really good player. Bert Harris. Yeah, and he Bert Harris used to bully me dog when I was a little you know how you know how he built right man, when I was coming up. You know, Burn Harris, he was not he was not having no beat, being good around, no good games, pick up games. He was elbowing. That was a big old dude. Man. You know you had Berg Yeah, so I mean it was you know, the pack was. It was a really good conference. It was really good team and you and you had headache. They had Mario bid It. Yeah. They had Isaac Burton from l A. Isaac is from l A. They had run Riley. You know, they had squaws. Jamal Falkoner, my freshman, I mean was coming they had nice squads, man, so you know the pack was the pack was nice. Like you had to you had to bring it. You had to bring it every night. Man, you had to bring it every night. Yo, you know what time it is. You know, this show wouldn't be where it is if it wasn't for our sponsors. Let him have it and then just talk about your philosophy about you know, like when you work, Like when you're waking up right and you're walking into the arena, like what is it like? What do you you know what I mean? Like what are you saying to yourself? Right? You know? Uh? You know? Or if you could talk to Damon Stodolmeyer at the University of Arizona, you know what I mean, Like, what would you say to him? You know what I mean? That's the forty eight year old damn it stardomyr Now you feel I'm saying, you know, it's crazy. I mean from a best I mean I you know, I felt like from a from a hoop standpoint, because I felt like I did it the right way. I learned the game right way. So the first thing I did when I walked into the gym, you know, I wanted to read the room. So it's been the point guard man. You you gotta bring everything together, you know. I wanted to be the most like guy on the team, you know, and I was really good at that, you know, the the twelve man to the second best player, because look, most of the time I was the best players and second you always had to figure out those dynamics. And I think that's what point guards do. They do that on and off the floor. Whether you you it's basketball, business, family, it doesn't matter. But you're you're always you're always thinking about other people, and you really don't like there's there's a part of you that really doesn't like to be disliked. That makes you you don't want to be disliked in your circle. You don't care about outside your circle, but within your circle, you don't want to be disliked. And those were the things that I tried to do. You know, each and every day you walk into a gym, I think it's important to learn to learn the system. You gotta learn. You gotta learn in reading the room. You gotta learn you know each player strengths, weaknesses, personality, coach, you gotta know what he wants. Then once you figure those dynamics out. Now you gotta figure out how to put your imprint on the game with the way you want to do it too. So when I got to Arizona Fence and I'll never forget you know, Coach Ose and he came for in home visit and he was the only coach that told me I wouldn't start. You know, but he said I was a really good player, but but you probably won't start. I went to the sweet sixth team. Last year, we went to the Sweet sixteen. This is this is his company. I went to the sweet sixth team. Uh, I returned my starting backcourt. I'm bringing in an all American McDonald's All American and calliaris. I got my I got my starting point guard back. You know, Matt, I think I got Chris Mills, I got Genres, I got all these guys. Man. You know, like, I don't need that twenty seven points right now. I need you to impact the game in different ways. What I do love about you is your speeding quickness. Boom, that clicking quickness. Right. I get there, I get the campus. I get the campus, and from the first day I got there, Um, I told myself speeding quickness. So whether we're playing pick up or whatever we're doing. I gotta be in the best shape ever and I'm gonna pick the ball up full quarter. I don't care if they like me or not. With two of these lines, I gotta get on the court. So what I figured out, what I figured out quick. When he said speeding quickness, it was like, he wants me to push the ball. He wants me to change the game when I come in. I gotta be a difference maker. He hasn't had speed. That's the one thing you always talked to to talk to me about um when I was when I was in high school. And then when I got there, like speed, tempo changed, tempo got I trust you with the ball, X, Y and Z. And so that's what I was able to do. And once I figured that, I figured that out, b D. Honestly, it didn't even get the practice. I figured that out and pick up and so once I figured that out, and then my shooting caught up with the speeding quickness, you know, then I was able to see everything. And then coming back my sophomore year, right, I still knew like it wasn't gonna be my time, but it was my time. Obviously I was gonna start there things I was gonna do, but I still had to make sure Chris ate you know, you know, see him, see him, gonna make sure he eats. Yeah, he got you gotta see him, you know, see him gotta eat. You got cleared over there there. You gotta eat them two first round picks. I'm a first round pick two. But I got the ball in my hand. So the dynamics, the dynamics, it's different, you know. So they want the ball on each wing. I gotta make sure that that they're getting an even distribution and they both feel good about it. But then I gotta be able to do me. And so I said, you know what, I might, I'll be able to do me, but I could average my assists and then if they had those off games, they're gonna be games where I gotta gonna do me. When so we were able to do that, and I was still all conference that. I never forget it going into my junior year. You know, is when he bought bought me and Khalid. He bought me and Khalid in to his office and he was like, I'm changing, I'm changing the way we play. M hm. I kind of was like, what you mean? You know what I mean? And he was like, the strength of our team is not on the on the inside anymore. It is not in the interior. The strength of our team is YouTube what I'm saying. And he was like, you guys gotta go out there and be and be who you are. And so coach Joseph, he he used to be funny like this beat. So he was. He was like, you gotta go out there and you gotta you gotta do you go. So I was like, so, coach you you say this time to really really you know, I could come down that. He said, who got you guys? Gotta be able you guys gotta be able to be you. So we go, we go to Australia. We go to Australia, UM on a little four and tour it. You know you're going in college. And we played ten games and I think Khalid averaged about thirty. I probably averaged about and it just rolled over. That rolled over to the season, man, and the year we went to the final four. It's crazy. The year we went to the final four. UM, I don't think I think that was the least talented team I played on the Arizona but I think that it was the most in tune team with they roles that I played on it, you know. And I tell people that all the time, and like I even always always say his name because he got drafted, Reggie, Reggie Garry. I say this all the time, Reggie Gary. It was like he was so important to that team because he allowed me and cod he he took he yes, he he guarded the best perimeter player every game. And so people, unless you knew who you didn't really understand that. And and and and when we played Cow, he guard j Kiss. That allowed us to play free. They don't have that same luxury. They kid gotta guard me. We we whatever team we played, he could guard one through force and he always guarded the toughest guy and that allowed us to be free. But that team, man was insane. The way we were played together, the things that we did, it was so different from Arizona past. We pressed, trapped, We shot a lot of threes, a lot, you know, And I think and I think that was but it was a freedom though. It was a friend and it was and I think it was it was Ludo Sen knowing that these two dudes are pros and we got to change to a program. Yeah, you know what I mean, I changed your style to more like a guard oriented program. Now we we I think we were probably the first team at that time started running a study diet of ball screens. Um. It's crazy because every time I used to see Romar Jim Herrick was assistant coach on the World University team I played on, See Got Free. You know, all the all the coaches that u c l A. They were like, the first time we ever seen the screen re screen was when we played you guys man and they did that for you. We were like, what in the what is this? Like? We was we was doing screen re screen. We were doing that, you know what I mean. And it was just three out to in, you know, kind of beat your man off the mountain. Yeah, and that's all. And that's and that's basically you know, that's all we did. But that but that year, you you could you know, for me, I was like I seen like I could really I could really really really evolve and forget just being a pro. Right, So I think the difference to bed and you can attest this because you went to u c l A. So obviously you got all the runs up there up there at uh at PAULI, I mean up there in the wreck man me playing against pros in the summertime, after after doing all the doing all these things, being able to play with pros in the summer, like it gave me a built in advantage, Like I knew exactly where I was at as a player, Like it was no illusions, right, And the difference is is that you know, I don't know today if guys really put it on the line, like in the summertime, you know what I mean. And so like when I was, I'll never forget this, you know, I'll never forget man I played. I was playing some pick up with Tim Hardaway one time and uh, you know that killer crossover. And you know, Tim, I'm not gonna say he was taking it easy, but he you know, people were saying, yeah him, you know, and so he was like after a couple of after a couple of places like okay, and then he put his hard hat on and he started going at me. But I was but I was all right with that, you because I wanted this best, because I needed to know where I was at as a player, you know what I'm saying. And like for me, I was like the biggest thing. And then I got a chance to play against Dream Team too. So I went to the Good World Games. And then we came back from the Good World Games and we played against Dream Team too, and their point guards at that time was Kevin Johnson and Mark Price, and man, that was really big for me. And you know, to be able to to be able to have the little success I had against them, that was like big. That was like big going into my my senior year. And then once I got to that last year in college, man, it was just that for me, was like, Okay, that was it. That was it. That was that was really like the graduation was it was. That's exactly what it was. It was only it was only disappointing. It was only disappointing for the for the fact that, you know, we didn't get back to the final four, we didn't have as much success as we had the year before. But for me, the work was done. Personally, I like the work was done. It was time to move on. Yeah, college, college was college was college was was I was past college. I was just in college. I was passed college. My mindset had already graduated from college. Like and the things that I was doing on the floor, so but it was, but it was, but it was a great senior year. And then you know, obviously moved on to the pro so Um. But that Arizona experience, man was Man. What a journey, fucking Arizona from Portland's Man the legend And we're gonna dive into the legend of Mighty Mouster Legends and big. We're gonna talk about the aim that uh I talked to Nick van Exel about when he had forty, you had fifty, and y'all had me running around, you know, ladies and gentlemen. Damon stod o'meyer. There's more to come. Point Guard podcast slick I Heart Media will be back. Point Guy is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Point God is a production of I Heart Radio. You know I'd never forget man I played. I was playing some pick up with Tim Hardaway one time. After a couple of after a couple of plays, He's like, okay, and then he put his hard hat on and he start going at me. But I was but I was all right with that. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, my people, we are back. The Point God Podcast, presented by Slick on I Heart Media. I am your host, Baron Davis a k A. Boom Diesel a k a be Diddy, and the Point Goud Podcast is basically a deep dive into the minds of some of the greatest point guards to ever do it. The decision making, the leadership, the journey to know how, the why. We're gonna have an opportunity to see how these artists pay, how these artists lead, and how these artists created who they were as their own one of one Point God. Now, ladies and gentlemen, we have been rocket and roll it and I'm trying to tell you I don't even know where to start. When you talk about Point God, when you talk about West West, when you talk about a problem hailing from Portland's Oregon two times Oregon Player of the Year on two Arizona, where he turned Arizona into some real wild Cats packed team Player of the Year, finished with number finished number one in threes in Arizona School history. It ain't Jason Terry, it ain't Mike Bibby, second in points, fourth and assists. Was the first ever pick by the Toronto Raptors when they entered the in b A. His homies called him Biggie, fans call the Mighty Mouse. He was an architect, a designer, a superhero. He has superpowers. He had the ability to have an imprint with his spirit, his soul, his candor, his antics, his showmanship. He was one of one. He was unstoppable, unguardable, ladies and gentlemen. He was a problem, the definition of a real point god as they do it against our lives, ladies and gentlemen. I present to you, David start um r Crazy. I told y'all, told y'all, told you what I've done. The man. For a while there, I didn't know you was talking about cool. That's a hell little intro man, that's a hell of look. Look. Thank you, thank you man. I appreciate that I really do. Man, Yeah, man, you know how we go. Man. I remember when I was at U C l A. And we was playing Oregon and he was playing for the Portland trail Blazers, and he was like, man, can't gave me a meal, you know what I mean, let me eat with you, you know what I mean, Let me kick it with you know, with with with your family, with your brothers. It was almost like like I don't know what you I don't know if you knew, but like what you did for me and Earl, you know what I mean at that time, At that time, you know what I mean. You know, it was just like damn dog like like he cool, like this motherfucker cool like this, like oh you can you can be cool, you know what I mean, because you did go to Arizona. So we you know, we didn't we we didn't know. We didn't know, and it was like damn okay, like maybe we should it went to Arizona. You know what I mean. You know, it's crazy. It's crazy because I was, you know, when I was asked to be on your show, you know, and I was thinking and I was thinking about the first time we met, and I said, man, I remember that, you know, going down to your vote. You guys played Oregon Um. After the game, I came back to the hotel sitting up in the room. We talked, man, and we talked, damn, they're all night man all night. Then I drove back and then I drove back to Portland and I drove back to Portland's and you know, it's crazy because I remember, I remember being in the room, and you know, I can't remember everybody who was on that team, but I was like, they ain't they loaded, y'all. Y'all was loaded, man, y'all was loaded. Y'all. Y'all had a crew. Man, y'all had a crew. Y'all hung together, y'all was for each other. Like you can see the camaraderie that y'all had, now, you know, that was always nice to see. Yeah, No, everybody was like, yo, damn stardom. Man was like, what man, let's go down there bro for real? You know, man, But you know, uh, one on, thanks thanks for coming on the show. You know. For me, it's just like I get a chance to give roses to people that I went to battle with, you know what I mean. People are looked up to people I admire and you know, like you know, just talking about like the air that we came up in, you know what I mean, It was like you know, everybody was a king of a castle if he was a point guard in the NBA, you know what I mean. And so you know, we we we played in a generation where we want your head, you know what I mean, And you don't feel comfortable unless the head is off, you know what I mean. The gang gotta be over. You know what I mean, The gang gotta be completely over. You know what I mean for there to be kind of like you know it was, it was it was really we were real territorial, you know what I mean. And like you know, for us in this show is like I want to take it back right because you know, we know you are juggering out on all levels, you know what I'm saying. Like we want to know like growing up right in Oregon, what attracted you to basketball and what like what was life like growing up? And like when did basketball you know, like become a thing for you, you know, be the basketball is in my blood. You know a lot of people some people know, some people don't. But you know my uh, you know, my dad he got drafted. He played at Portland State. He was the he's the second all time leading scorer UM in Portland State history, behind you know somebody that I know all of l a no free you know, and and uh him and my uncle, my dad was drafted by the Seattle superstigus. He never played an NBA UM, but he was a heck of a player. My uncle, my uncle was drafted, uh in the NFL draft, um, you know, by the Detroit Lions. Um. You know my aunties, they got scholarships, you know, my cousins. You know obviously Seline, you know Antoine, you know, started at Georgetown, transferred to Oregon. You know, it's a whole lot of Yeah. The lineage, the lineage of the start of my name in Portland, you know, runs about four or five decades, and so it just kind of was in my blood and uh, you know growing up. Um, you know, just like anybody, you know, you catch you get that ball, man, you just fall in love. You fall in love with it. You know. I was always groomed by older people, but I had I had older mentors. I didn't, you know, guys, guys, my age. I went to school, obviously I was with guys my age. But when it came to sports, I was always advanced, right, Yes, So I always played. Yes, I always played a couple a couple of years at ahead of my ahead of my peer group. And I'll never forget it. So my mother, you know, she worked the Lodden and so I was always with my grandmother. So if I wasn't with my mom, I was with my grandmother. So I went to school across the street from my grandmother, and I used to I was bouncing off the walls a lot, you know, just like yeah, my uncle. So my uncle came. My uncle came and he was like, man, I'm gonna take you up to this community center, you know. And I was in the third grade. So the name of the community center was Matt Dishman. Most people called it Not Street. So I go up there, man, yeah, it was called it was on Not Street, and it was really called Matt Dishman Community Center. And so and so that's where like I played on my first organized team, you know. And so you know it's crazy, man, because you play on these organized teams, like when you get older, like it's like I'll be telling my sons, you know, being forty eight. Now, I'm like, you know, when I think back to like going up to Maddician, I was like, man, that's where I got into my first fight. That's where I got my first winning a fight. I got my butt wolf, Um, that's where you went to dances. It was it was the community center, you know what I mean. And uh, you know that's kind of where that's kind of where I got my starting and and and the crazy thing about it at that time, that's the first time I met too Real Brandon so to Real was older than me, trial three or four years older, and it was the first time I had met ter Real, So you know, it was crazy. Um, you know, So that's how that's that was. That was like that was like my introduction the team sports, you know, because before that time I had never been on a team. And and and I remember and it was our mass embarrassing because the first game we played, I was on the fifth They put me on the fifth grade team in the third grade, so I was already small from my side. And uh, you know, man, we had we had white T shirts because we we couldn't we didn't have so we had white T shirts. We had we had to write with the sharpness our numbers on the jersey, and they told us to bring They told us to bring. I can't remember what color shorts we had, but they told us all to bring the same color short. Then we go and play some team and they beat the hell out of us in that first game, and man, I'm crying, and my mother like, boy, you better. You know my mother she was just like always like you're not You're not doing all that. But that was my introduction into it, man, And I remember it like it was just today, yo, yo yo. We gotta tap in real quick. Let's hear a quick word from our sponsors. And then and then I would say, like, now you in it? Right? At what point did you realize like Okay, like I can make a name, you know what I mean, Like like hey, I'm about to like I got a gift, you know what I mean? Like when did that happen? From that point? You know the craziest thing about it, um that year I probably lost there. I lost the most games that I ever lost in grade school in that one year playing up. But then I realized, like the dudes I was playing with, although they was cool, there was my partners. I was like, man, they're not serious. They they don't really want to do this, and quite frankly, they weak. You know, like a week if they defer into a third grader, it was t shirt. Damn, they come down to his knee, you know, a week, you know, so you know that's you know, the next year. The next year, I come back and play. I played great up um, but I was always young for my age, so uh played great up Then I come back that following your play again and we're on fifth on this year, I played my age group through in the fifth grade and we were really good. Wed to it was. It was the first time I went to Nationals. And so for most people don't know, like everything is so watered down that right, But when I remember when Nationals. To get the Nationals, you had to win state. So you had to win your state, what was Oregon. Then you had to win regional. You had to win regional, so you had to win Washington. You had to win so now you had to beat the teams from Washington all the surrounding teams to get the Nationals. Then Nationals it was only it was only eight teams. So it's kind of like the Little League World Series. So you got to that point, and you know, that was that was that was the first time that I got to play on that type of stage. And that's when I've seen in my skill level was just as good as anybody else is in the country in my age group. And so that right there, and I made All tournament team, and that right there gave me the utmost confidence. Then I came back the next year because of my age. So my birthday is crazy, so I had that bordering birthday. I had a late birthday. But my mother never put me back. Looked, I know that's a sensitive su She never held me. But my mother wasn't holding me back to no damn basketball. But I was always able to play a year I was able to play a year ahead in a year back, and then a year back. I played a year back in a national tournament in the in the AU tournament again but this time and this time we got to the semi finals and I was voted and I was m v P. And so that really that really liked took me over to HUM. So the grade school journey b D was was one where I've seen I've seen myself evolved, you know, the whole time, and and I do tell this story because they're part of my journey. And I know you being from you know, being from so Cow, you know exactly who I'm talking about. You know. I remember in seventh grade, UM, that was the first time that I've seen I've seen a AU team Victoria Park from from out from out from Mountain so Cow. And you know is crazy because I was the first time I played against Tyas. But I didn't know that was I didn't I didn't know, Um, but it was it was. It was a great moment for me because they were really good. They had a lot of play, they had a lot of good players, UM, and as I went it was like they were like the barometer, and they were like the bar And so then what happened is as I went on the high school, and I know you would probably touch it, but as I went on the high school, lo and Behold. Going into my senior year, I end up playing on that on on vp UM. But we were called Team Long Beach at that time, and I ended up playing with tas they had added they had added Chief Cherokee Parks. So now we had got to the point that you know, now I had went from being little kids and you know, I had elevated, but you know, none of that. I didn't know that. I did not know that it got so it got so bad, and it got so bad right like when I was younger, because it wasn't a lot of people that came out of Portland Um at that time. You know. It used to, you know, at times when I would go out of town and play people with think I was from Cali, and I'm like, I'm not from Cathy. I'm not I'm not from Cali. I'm from Portland, Organ manybody in Porlan, Oregon. I'm like, you know, I was like a lot of people don't know their history. I always like to say this, you u c l a guys, so you know, because it's pictures real big up in that practice. Washington, come on, man, Richard Washington's number one picked bess in high school Portland, Oregon. Yet and and and uh, you know, so I took a lot of pride in being from a small town being able to go out and do the things that I did, man, and and and kind of opening up doors for the people that came behind me. I felt like, like you know, TV Terrell, he started it, but I just didn't feel like he got the national exposure right, but but he put off, but he put on enough. He put on enough in college that it was able to empower me. And so now they was gonna come back and they wanted to see because didn't nobody want to miss it. Wasn't gonna miss After TV who went the leven pick in the drem All Star Chiller, I don't. I don't think they wanted to miss on the next one. So I feel like that really helped me as well. Yeah, I like that man. Uh, you know, I was gonna ask and we always asked, like who was that dude that you kind of looked up to from you know, from your area. That was like your trajectory and barometer. But you know, shout out to TV Terrell Brandon, one of the legends. I remember playing against that dude. I think he had like eight like he like I never felt like eighteen points make you feel like fucked up, you know what I mean? Like he had eighteen points, that's all he had, But he kicked my ask dog every time pull up off the pick and roll. But it wasn't even about the points. He knew he was gonna get his money. You know what I mean is that like, is that like the mentality you know what I mean that y'all had like coming out of you know, coming out of Portland's like you know, like where's that that that scores? You know, it's like a scores mentality, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I think that there's been a lot of great scores out of a lot of good players. But yeah, I didn't get the exposure, you know what I'm saying at that time. You know, I look at TV, you know, and I mean, dude, he won state a couple of times in high school. Um, he won the long jump in high school. He goes to Oregon, he sits out of the year, then he comes back his first year in the pack average like twentysoth, comes back averages damn the thirty and declares for the draft. It was just like, you know, he the things that he did, the way he did it, you know, he was you know, he was like the guy wanted to emulate. He was the guy. You know, I went to the high school games and grade school games. I wanted to watch him. And it was a mentality that he had, and it was you know, it was something else passed on and we used to always just say, man, it was you gotta get your money. That was that was like, that was the older guys, most older guys. You know, by the time I got to you know, the reputation starts to proceed yourself from by the time I got the seventh grade, I mean everybody, yeah, you know, you were coming to the games. Um, you know, the same thing as as you go throughout high school. They here, you're gonna play in a summer league game. You know, I can remember a lot of guys coming, you know, um, a lot of younger guys you know, uh coming uh, you know to the games and different things. But it was just like, man, just get your money. But we always we played a lot outside. That's how we we That's how we say we got our jump shots. You know, because you're playing on double rams with chains, the wind might be blowing. You gotta know how to shoot. You gotta know angels, you gotta you gotta know what you're doing. So, you know, it was it was that scores mentality that a lot of us, that a lot of us had. But for me growing up, you know, it started it started seeing him, you know, it started it started seeing him what he was able to do. Um. You know, but like I said, you know, it was a badge of honor. Uh, you know, to be able to do the things that I had started to create, you know, grade school and high school wise before I got to college. Um. Yeah, because in high school you want you want two states? He won seventy four and four right, um ship, Like you know, by the time high school, it was like what was that? Like, you know, just being being from a small town and I don't consider Portland a small town. Uh, but being from a small city, a smaller city, yeah, smaller, smaller city, Yeah, smaller city. Being from a smaller city, and like now you know, Wilson Hide popping, you know what I mean to states? Like talk about the pressure right of making the decision to go to the university, like choosing the University of Arizona over being a hometown favorite. How did that happen? You know? I was, I was I needed to go. I needed to get out and grow up. And I think that number one for a lot of people that's not from the state of Oregon, they wouldn't know like or you know, you just look at all the success to Oregon is had because man, Oregon on the hell of a run in terms of what they're doing. But they didn't have it like that back then. And you know that because you played they were playing in Matt Court. They always had I thought a really good fan basis when they were, but it just wasn't. It wasn't. And I just think that they still that's that, that's that, that's that, that's that camp. We got wet Jodan, we got we got Jordan now too. Now, it was that's another story. You know, you guys jumped to Jordan's brand. Man, you guys trying to make way that's a game. I'm not gonna that's a game changer. That's a that's a game changer for so like real though. But but yeah, no, but it was. It was one of them things where I just felt I had to get away. Um, I needed to grow up. You know, Colleges, colleges for me at that time, it was I felt like going to Arizona would impact younger, younger guys as well that was coming after me because we just hadn't seen that before. Like when I went to When I went to Arizona, there was such a big deal, you know because I felt like a game. Dudes in the hood in the community is like, man, he going to Arizona. Yeah, so going the Arion on. It also was was critical for me not to come home now, you know, because the first thing I said was, now you hit a little bit of adversity. If you hit that adversity, you can't come home. Yea. So I remember, And it wasn't even though adversity. I was just homesick. I remember. I remember I called my mother and I was like, I need to come home. She was like, I don't got nothing for you. Not coming back here. You're not coming back here. And then, you know, I think that, Um, for me, like I said, it was just the playing for a holiday who turned into a Hall of Fame coach Ludosan playing playing on the platform, and I was able to play on at Arizona. Um, I think that it just it catapulted me and it put me on another level. And even even as I went through my four years, you know, as I as I moved further on, I say to myself, you know, like damn, you know, I what I did, what I ended up doing in Arizona helped inspire the next way. Baby, don't go the Arizona. It's not a damon. Come on you, Jason Terry, he doesn't go to Arizona if it's not a damon stout of myr blueprint. I think the rain is you can keep start, you know, all the dope comes, everything, everything that came behind it. It was like a badger honor for me. So that is so the empowerment of that, you know, being from Portland, Oregon, I think has always been something that I cherished. Man, what what what was it like playing in the packed team? It was it was only ten teams? You know, it's crazy, it was was it a battle? I mean, it wasn't that a battle every night? You know what I mean? Like, let's let like the the year, right, I'll take it all the way back. So I'll take it back to so because you know, obviously us and you guys, you guys, Arizona UCLA, it was just such an intense rival, you know, and it was it was it was one of them rivalries that unless you was a part of it in that time. Even today, like Arizona uc l A. They they're good, they're cool, but it's never gonna it's never gonna be like that. Again, hated each other, but but you know what they will be. It was like I think we all hated each other, but because because we knew everybody was really good. Yeah, I don j T was talking about that, and then you know, I had Babby on the show, so I'm like, man, you know I'm coming in there, like Baby was like, dog, I never met somebody that like came at me the way you did. And I was like, don I never met somebody who was just made my life difficult, you know what I mean. It was like that Arizona U c l A thing. That's a man, that's a real thing, you know. So it's funny. You know, I'll never forget this. So my freshman year, the first time we played, the first time we play um U c l A. We play him at at Arizona. I think we had like a ninety game winning Street and Claude Claude Mills, Chris Mills. I used to wear the leather suit. Dude, I seen with a with a cell phone and he had that Wolfman jack boys. Hey baby, you know that at that yes, So he was like, you know these boys coming up in here, man, they you know, they want to get at of X Y and Z and I didn't really I didn't really know the extreme of the rivalry about it. But until you actually in the game, you don't know. And so then I'm like, wow, look at this, Like wow, That's all I can say. And as I look back seven years later, I think it might have been fifteen pros in that game between both teams. So it doesn't matter if I if I'm talking to T Murray, if I see Gerald Mackins, d Martin, I'm acclaimed, tires Ny, George z din Eddio coming off the surgery, like you can go on and on and on, Damon Stardom, Chris Mills, Clid Reads Stokes, Sean Rooks. I mean, yeah, it was just so I didn't really understand the magnitude of that. But anyway, we end up losing that game and U c l A broke our wind streak and Derek Martin when it shot over me, Yeah, I went back. I went back to my dorm. I went back to my dorm room, right and I cried like a baby. I cried like a baby, A dope. I just I felt I felt like I felt like he broke the streak on me. It was but it was but it was but you know what it was. It was a great moment. Uh. It was one that made me grow as a player, and it made me girl as a person. You know what I'm saying, Because it was you know, I was really hard on myself, you know, but that was that that rivalry. Um, you know, it was one for the ages. And and like I said, tires Dee Martin, Um, you know you you played, you played against Kyle. They had Jay Kidd. You play against Stanford, they had Brevin Knight. Um. Uh, Cal also had Lamm Hurd. Uh. You know, there were there were so many There were so many good guards that good guards in my position, but just in general, good players that came through, came through that league. And it was guys that you know, I felt like today they would be pros, but they not pros. They weren't pros in that era. But in this area, I feel I feel like they would be pros. And I'm probably missing missing someone. I mean, even um, Washington State, I remember they had been Celsen. Dude by the name of Benny Seltzer man. Bennie Selzer could play. Bennie Seltzer averaged about seventeen a game, Benny was nice. You know. They had Tyrese Maxi's dad with the Philadelphia seventy six is Tyrone Maxi Tyrone. It was dudes, it was. It was Minnie Gellerson I think played Dominick Gellison came through there. So they had dues. Usc USC had dudes when I first got in the league. They had They had Harold Harold mind who you know they had they had then they end up eventually and I thought he was a really good player. Bert Harris. Yeah, and he Bert Harris used to bully me dog when I was a little you know how you know how he built right man, when I was coming up. You know, Burn Harris, he was not he was not having no beat, being good around, no good games, pick up games. He was elbowing. That was a big old dude. Man. You know you had Berg Yeah, so I mean it was you know, the pack was. It was a really good conference. It was really good team and you and you had headache. They had Mario bid It. Yeah. They had Isaac Burton from l A. Isaac is from l A. They had run Riley. You know, they had squaws. Jamal Falkoner, my freshman, I mean was coming they had nice squads, man, so you know the pack was the pack was nice. Like you had to you had to bring it. You had to bring it every night. Man, you had to bring it every night. Yo, you know what time it is. You know, this show wouldn't be where it is if it wasn't for our sponsors. Let him have it and then just talk about your philosophy about you know, like when you work, Like when you're waking up right and you're walking into the arena, like what is it like? What do you you know what I mean? Like what are you saying to yourself? Right? You know? Uh? You know? Or if you could talk to Damon Stodolmeyer at the University of Arizona, you know what I mean, Like, what would you say to him? You know what I mean? That's the forty eight year old damn it stardomyr Now you feel I'm saying, you know, it's crazy. I mean from a best I mean I you know, I felt like from a from a hoop standpoint, because I felt like I did it the right way. I learned the game right way. So the first thing I did when I walked into the gym, you know, I wanted to read the room. So it's been the point guard man. You you gotta bring everything together, you know. I wanted to be the most like guy on the team, you know, and I was really good at that, you know, the the twelve man to the second best player, because look, most of the time I was the best players and second you always had to figure out those dynamics. And I think that's what point guards do. They do that on and off the floor. Whether you you it's basketball, business, family, it doesn't matter. But you're you're always you're always thinking about other people, and you really don't like there's there's a part of you that really doesn't like to be disliked. That makes you you don't want to be disliked in your circle. You don't care about outside your circle, but within your circle, you don't want to be disliked. And those were the things that I tried to do. You know, each and every day you walk into a gym, I think it's important to learn to learn the system. You gotta learn. You gotta learn in reading the room. You gotta learn you know each player strengths, weaknesses, personality, coach, you gotta know what he wants. Then once you figure those dynamics out. Now you gotta figure out how to put your imprint on the game with the way you want to do it too. So when I got to Arizona Fence and I'll never forget you know, Coach Ose and he came for in home visit and he was the only coach that told me I wouldn't start. You know, but he said I was a really good player, but but you probably won't start. I went to the sweet sixth team. Last year, we went to the Sweet sixteen. This is this is his company. I went to the sweet sixth team. Uh, I returned my starting backcourt. I'm bringing in an all American McDonald's All American and calliaris. I got my I got my starting point guard back. You know, Matt, I think I got Chris Mills, I got Genres, I got all these guys. Man. You know, like, I don't need that twenty seven points right now. I need you to impact the game in different ways. What I do love about you is your speeding quickness. Boom, that clicking quickness. Right. I get there, I get the campus. I get the campus, and from the first day I got there, Um, I told myself speeding quickness. So whether we're playing pick up or whatever we're doing. I gotta be in the best shape ever and I'm gonna pick the ball up full quarter. I don't care if they like me or not. With two of these lines, I gotta get on the court. So what I figured out, what I figured out quick. When he said speeding quickness, it was like, he wants me to push the ball. He wants me to change the game when I come in. I gotta be a difference maker. He hasn't had speed. That's the one thing you always talked to to talk to me about um when I was when I was in high school. And then when I got there, like speed, tempo changed, tempo got I trust you with the ball, X, Y and Z. And so that's what I was able to do. And once I figured that, I figured that out, b D. Honestly, it didn't even get the practice. I figured that out and pick up and so once I figured that out, and then my shooting caught up with the speeding quickness, you know, then I was able to see everything. And then coming back my sophomore year, right, I still knew like it wasn't gonna be my time, but it was my time. Obviously I was gonna start there things I was gonna do, but I still had to make sure Chris ate you know, you know, see him, see him, gonna make sure he eats. Yeah, he got you gotta see him, you know, see him gotta eat. You got cleared over there there. You gotta eat them two first round picks. I'm a first round pick two. But I got the ball in my hand. So the dynamics, the dynamics, it's different, you know. So they want the ball on each wing. I gotta make sure that that they're getting an even distribution and they both feel good about it. But then I gotta be able to do me. And so I said, you know what, I might, I'll be able to do me, but I could average my assists and then if they had those off games, they're gonna be games where I gotta gonna do me. When so we were able to do that, and I was still all conference that. I never forget it going into my junior year. You know, is when he bought bought me and Khalid. He bought me and Khalid in to his office and he was like, I'm changing, I'm changing the way we play. M hm. I kind of was like, what you mean? You know what I mean? And he was like, the strength of our team is not on the on the inside anymore. It is not in the interior. The strength of our team is YouTube what I'm saying. And he was like, you guys gotta go out there and be and be who you are. And so coach Joseph, he he used to be funny like this beat. So he was. He was like, you gotta go out there and you gotta you gotta do you go. So I was like, so, coach you you say this time to really really you know, I could come down that. He said, who got you guys? Gotta be able you guys gotta be able to be you. So we go, we go to Australia. We go to Australia, UM on a little four and tour it. You know you're going in college. And we played ten games and I think Khalid averaged about thirty. I probably averaged about and it just rolled over. That rolled over to the season, man, and the year we went to the final four. It's crazy. The year we went to the final four. UM, I don't think I think that was the least talented team I played on the Arizona but I think that it was the most in tune team with they roles that I played on it, you know. And I tell people that all the time, and like I even always always say his name because he got drafted, Reggie, Reggie Garry. I say this all the time, Reggie Gary. It was like he was so important to that team because he allowed me and cod he he took he yes, he he guarded the best perimeter player every game. And so people, unless you knew who you didn't really understand that. And and and and when we played Cow, he guard j Kiss. That allowed us to play free. They don't have that same luxury. They kid gotta guard me. We we whatever team we played, he could guard one through force and he always guarded the toughest guy and that allowed us to be free. But that team, man was insane. The way we were played together, the things that we did, it was so different from Arizona past. We pressed, trapped, We shot a lot of threes, a lot, you know, And I think and I think that was but it was a freedom though. It was a friend and it was and I think it was it was Ludo Sen knowing that these two dudes are pros and we got to change to a program. Yeah, you know what I mean, I changed your style to more like a guard oriented program. Now we we I think we were probably the first team at that time started running a study diet of ball screens. Um. It's crazy because every time I used to see Romar Jim Herrick was assistant coach on the World University team I played on, See Got Free. You know, all the all the coaches that u c l A. They were like, the first time we ever seen the screen re screen was when we played you guys man and they did that for you. We were like, what in the what is this? Like? We was we was doing screen re screen. We were doing that, you know what I mean. And it was just three out to in, you know, kind of beat your man off the mountain. Yeah, and that's all. And that's and that's basically you know, that's all we did. But that but that year, you you could you know, for me, I was like I seen like I could really I could really really really evolve and forget just being a pro. Right, So I think the difference to bed and you can attest this because you went to u c l A. So obviously you got all the runs up there up there at uh at PAULI, I mean up there in the wreck man me playing against pros in the summertime, after after doing all the doing all these things, being able to play with pros in the summer, like it gave me a built in advantage, Like I knew exactly where I was at as a player, Like it was no illusions, right, And the difference is is that you know, I don't know today if guys really put it on the line, like in the summertime, you know what I mean. And so like when I was, I'll never forget this, you know, I'll never forget man I played. I was playing some pick up with Tim Hardaway one time and uh, you know that killer crossover. And you know, Tim, I'm not gonna say he was taking it easy, but he you know, people were saying, yeah him, you know, and so he was like after a couple of after a couple of places like okay, and then he put his hard hat on and he started going at me. But I was but I was all right with that, you because I wanted this best, because I needed to know where I was at as a player, you know what I'm saying. And like for me, I was like the biggest thing. And then I got a chance to play against Dream Team too. So I went to the Good World Games. And then we came back from the Good World Games and we played against Dream Team too, and their point guards at that time was Kevin Johnson and Mark Price, and man, that was really big for me. And you know, to be able to to be able to have the little success I had against them, that was like big. That was like big going into my my senior year. And then once I got to that last year in college, man, it was just that for me, was like, Okay, that was it. That was it. That was that was really like the graduation was it was. That's exactly what it was. It was only it was only disappointing. It was only disappointing for the for the fact that, you know, we didn't get back to the final four, we didn't have as much success as we had the year before. But for me, the work was done. Personally, I like the work was done. It was time to move on. Yeah, college, college was college was college was was I was past college. I was just in college. I was passed college. My mindset had already graduated from college. Like and the things that I was doing on the floor, so but it was, but it was, but it was a great senior year. And then you know, obviously moved on to the pro so Um. But that Arizona experience, man was Man. What a journey, fucking Arizona from Portland's Man the legend And we're gonna dive into the legend of Mighty Mouster Legends and big. We're gonna talk about the aim that uh I talked to Nick van Exel about when he had forty, you had fifty, and y'all had me running around, you know, ladies and gentlemen. Damon stod o'meyer. There's more to come. Point Guard podcast slick I Heart Media will be back. Point Guy is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.