The guys from PING.

The guys from PING.

They've kind of shown me how much the equipment matters.

They've kind of shown me how much the equipment matters.

I just love that I can hit any shot. I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

I just love that I can hit any shot. I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and Marty not where you live, necessarily, not where PING exists, but in a lot of parts of the country it's cool and off and golfers still want to get their golf in and they still want to look at new product. A lot of the new products come out in January typically, and so I wanted to chat a little bit with you today about fitting, specifically the difference in fitting indoors and outdoors, because obviously everybody wants to hit shots off grass, but not everybody can, especially in the winter months. So I kind of wanted to lean on you about the big differences in what happens when you get fit, let's say, indoors, off mats things like that, versus you know, go into the proving grounds getting fit on perfect grass and ideal conditions.

Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and Marty not where you live, necessarily, not where PING exists, but in a lot of parts of the country it's cool and off and golfers still want to get their golf in and they still want to look at new product. A lot of the new products come out in January typically, and so I wanted to chat a little bit with you today about fitting, specifically the difference in fitting indoors and outdoors, because obviously everybody wants to hit shots off grass, but not everybody can, especially in the winter months. So I kind of wanted to lean on you about the big differences in what happens when you get fit, let's say, indoors, off mats things like that, versus you know, go into the proving grounds getting fit on perfect grass and ideal conditions.

Yeah, I know, it's a great question. I think it's a lot. It's it's weighing on the minds of a lot of golfers and actually a lot of club fitters. Is one of our most common question from fitters, because a lot of fitting environments are indoors. Is hey, what are these differences? What can I do with my golfer, right, to simulate more of an outdoor environment? What are let's compare and contrast some of those differences, and getting fit indoors is not all a negative thing, right, I'll give a few examples of this. To get fit outdoors, you have the advantage of if you have a launch monitor your fitter as a launch monitor that can track full down range ballflight. That's an advantage, right. You also can hit off the turf, so you can really evaluate the turf interaction of the golf club for your irons or wedges. Those are some of the really big advantages in the outdoor environment. You can see visually the curve. Luckily, nowadays launch monitors are great. You can get nice curve information and indoor environments as well. So those are the advantages of getting fit outdoors. But a lot of times it's hard to find a facility that you can hit really premium golf balls outdoors, right, It's rare. It is rare. We're lucky here at the proving grounds. We're hitting prov one x's and things of that nature. The tour players they get to hit premium golf balls. So an advantage of getting fit indoors is that you can hit premium golf balls right. So while you're not getting that full down range flight, hopefully you're on a launch monitor that can has really good simulation techniques for being able to simulate that full down range flight and actually hitting premium golf balls will give you sometimes better launch and spin numbers than hitting outdoors with a bad golf ball, But you do get to see the full down range flight right, So there's some pros and cons between those two different scenarios. There another advantage of getting fit indoors, and sometimes we do this when we run test chain, especially if you're trying to figure out if somebody's compensating. Let's say we give you a club with a lying goal that's two degrees upright. You might hit your first shot, you pull it to the right for you as a left handed golfer. Your next one you compensate. You stand close, so you raise your hands. You do all this stuff right now. In an indoor environment, a really skilled fitter can turn the screen off for a couple shots and blind you right and take out a little bit of that bias. You have no feedback loop. John Graham is one of our ambassadors here, does this with his tour players. When they putt. He'll have him hit left to rights and right to lefters. He'll have him hit the putt. He'll immediately kick the ball out of the way, but he'll measure where it would have gone with his launch monitor, So he effectively is doing this in an outdoor environment. So indoors you can actually do that, and a skilled fitter can use this to their advantage. Specifically when you're fitting, for example, let's say lying goal on your irons and you're trying to make sure this play player is not doing anything to accommodate for the particular ballflide and you want to see how they naturally deliver. That can actually be an advantage in an indoor environment. So premium golf ball really good friction. You can get arguably sometimes better more consistent like launch condition numbers from having that good friction, and you can, if you have a skilled fitter, be able to eliminate some of the bias. Just turn off the screen for a little bit, have them hit some shots, see how they're delivering it. They can look at the numbers on their screen, but you just mask it, mask the simulation from the player and the simulator, and those can be some of the advantages with the indoor fitting environment.

Yeah, I know, it's a great question. I think it's a lot. It's it's weighing on the minds of a lot of golfers and actually a lot of club fitters. Is one of our most common question from fitters, because a lot of fitting environments are indoors. Is hey, what are these differences? What can I do with my golfer, right, to simulate more of an outdoor environment? What are let's compare and contrast some of those differences, and getting fit indoors is not all a negative thing, right, I'll give a few examples of this. To get fit outdoors, you have the advantage of if you have a launch monitor your fitter as a launch monitor that can track full down range ballflight. That's an advantage, right. You also can hit off the turf, so you can really evaluate the turf interaction of the golf club for your irons or wedges. Those are some of the really big advantages in the outdoor environment. You can see visually the curve. Luckily, nowadays launch monitors are great. You can get nice curve information and indoor environments as well. So those are the advantages of getting fit outdoors. But a lot of times it's hard to find a facility that you can hit really premium golf balls outdoors, right, It's rare. It is rare. We're lucky here at the proving grounds. We're hitting prov one x's and things of that nature. The tour players they get to hit premium golf balls. So an advantage of getting fit indoors is that you can hit premium golf balls right. So while you're not getting that full down range flight, hopefully you're on a launch monitor that can has really good simulation techniques for being able to simulate that full down range flight and actually hitting premium golf balls will give you sometimes better launch and spin numbers than hitting outdoors with a bad golf ball, But you do get to see the full down range flight right, So there's some pros and cons between those two different scenarios. There another advantage of getting fit indoors, and sometimes we do this when we run test chain, especially if you're trying to figure out if somebody's compensating. Let's say we give you a club with a lying goal that's two degrees upright. You might hit your first shot, you pull it to the right for you as a left handed golfer. Your next one you compensate. You stand close, so you raise your hands. You do all this stuff right now. In an indoor environment, a really skilled fitter can turn the screen off for a couple shots and blind you right and take out a little bit of that bias. You have no feedback loop. John Graham is one of our ambassadors here, does this with his tour players. When they putt. He'll have him hit left to rights and right to lefters. He'll have him hit the putt. He'll immediately kick the ball out of the way, but he'll measure where it would have gone with his launch monitor, So he effectively is doing this in an outdoor environment. So indoors you can actually do that, and a skilled fitter can use this to their advantage. Specifically when you're fitting, for example, let's say lying goal on your irons and you're trying to make sure this play player is not doing anything to accommodate for the particular ballflide and you want to see how they naturally deliver. That can actually be an advantage in an indoor environment. So premium golf ball really good friction. You can get arguably sometimes better more consistent like launch condition numbers from having that good friction, and you can, if you have a skilled fitter, be able to eliminate some of the bias. Just turn off the screen for a little bit, have them hit some shots, see how they're delivering it. They can look at the numbers on their screen, but you just mask it, mask the simulation from the player and the simulator, and those can be some of the advantages with the indoor fitting environment.

What about the numbers, like in terms of what numbers might look like outdoors on a grass driving range versus numbers indoors.

What about the numbers, like in terms of what numbers might look like outdoors on a grass driving range versus numbers indoors.

Yeah, drivers gonna generally be the same. Again, you know, we've kind of talked a little bit tea yep off of tea pretty clean, So drivers generally going to be the same as long as you can kind of make sure your te height is rep presentative of how you would tea at outdoors. That can be a little tricky with some of the t's and things of that nature, but driver will generally be almost identically indoors to outdoors. Once you get into a fitting club that we and most of the industry uses as a seven iron or around a seven iron, there's really good news there. Most of the time, your spin numbers will be very similar to outdoor conditions off the ground. Right now, I say that with a very big asterisk that actually the type of match you hit off can actually change this a good bit. Okay, some mats, you actually players can kind of hit the ball, hit the mat before the ball get a little dust or some of the little fibers of the mat will kind of get kicked up and get between the ball and the face and change the spin a little bit. But I think generally the good news is that we are fitting with seven irons. A lot of the industries fitting with seven irons, your launching spin can be pretty similar. But Shane, this changes when it comes to wedges. So here's my advice for folks. Seem a little weird, but if you're gonna go get fit for wedges, bring a little spray bottle with you. Bring bring your little spray bottle full of water with you to your wedge fitting. Hopefully your fitter has one and they're doing this protocol. A lot of our fitters are doing this protocol. Well will they will have you hit wedges off the mat, dry clean and dry clean the face, dry everything, grooves are clean, and compare them to your gamer. Compare them to some other wedges you want to be trying in your fitting process. And then sprits the golf ball with water, and what you want to look at is the difference in spin, and you can look at launch angle two. But these things will be tied very close together between the dry scenario and when you introduce moisture, that's going to tell you how much spin retention that club club face technology has. That's a great thing for the consumer to look at. So you maybe it may get a little funny look there, but that's a little direct to consumer empowerment technique you can use to bring into your fitting environment. Marty.

Yeah, drivers gonna generally be the same. Again, you know, we've kind of talked a little bit tea yep off of tea pretty clean, So drivers generally going to be the same as long as you can kind of make sure your te height is rep presentative of how you would tea at outdoors. That can be a little tricky with some of the t's and things of that nature, but driver will generally be almost identically indoors to outdoors. Once you get into a fitting club that we and most of the industry uses as a seven iron or around a seven iron, there's really good news there. Most of the time, your spin numbers will be very similar to outdoor conditions off the ground. Right now, I say that with a very big asterisk that actually the type of match you hit off can actually change this a good bit. Okay, some mats, you actually players can kind of hit the ball, hit the mat before the ball get a little dust or some of the little fibers of the mat will kind of get kicked up and get between the ball and the face and change the spin a little bit. But I think generally the good news is that we are fitting with seven irons. A lot of the industries fitting with seven irons, your launching spin can be pretty similar. But Shane, this changes when it comes to wedges. So here's my advice for folks. Seem a little weird, but if you're gonna go get fit for wedges, bring a little spray bottle with you. Bring bring your little spray bottle full of water with you to your wedge fitting. Hopefully your fitter has one and they're doing this protocol. A lot of our fitters are doing this protocol. Well will they will have you hit wedges off the mat, dry clean and dry clean the face, dry everything, grooves are clean, and compare them to your gamer. Compare them to some other wedges you want to be trying in your fitting process. And then sprits the golf ball with water, and what you want to look at is the difference in spin, and you can look at launch angle two. But these things will be tied very close together between the dry scenario and when you introduce moisture, that's going to tell you how much spin retention that club club face technology has. That's a great thing for the consumer to look at. So you maybe it may get a little funny look there, but that's a little direct to consumer empowerment technique you can use to bring into your fitting environment. Marty.

I'm excited in five years from now for you to have numbers on like Fiji water versus Smart water. Like I know you're gonna eventually dive into that and get a good feel for it. This is what tap water does to a golf ball versus you know, the really elite electro lightwater. But that's a very interesting thing I've never thought about. That is like trying to trying to recreate any condition possible indoors. The other thing I've always been interested about in terms of fitting is and players have talked a lot about this in terms of their practice, right is, some guys want to go sit on the range for two hours and hit one hundred and seven irons, but some guys want it to feel a little bit more like they're playing around. What advice would you give a player that's getting indoor fitting that to make it feel a little bit more like you're hitting golf shots versus just seven iron after seven iron after seven iron.

I'm excited in five years from now for you to have numbers on like Fiji water versus Smart water. Like I know you're gonna eventually dive into that and get a good feel for it. This is what tap water does to a golf ball versus you know, the really elite electro lightwater. But that's a very interesting thing I've never thought about. That is like trying to trying to recreate any condition possible indoors. The other thing I've always been interested about in terms of fitting is and players have talked a lot about this in terms of their practice, right is, some guys want to go sit on the range for two hours and hit one hundred and seven irons, but some guys want it to feel a little bit more like they're playing around. What advice would you give a player that's getting indoor fitting that to make it feel a little bit more like you're hitting golf shots versus just seven iron after seven iron after seven iron.

Yeah, we like to call that game like fitting okay, right, And it's great that whether it's track Man or Foreside or one of the other launch monitors or simulator software I've seen. Skytra has some really cool visuals now where they put literally a wall there. You can create some really good visuals now with the you know, launch mars have become simulators, they've married into one thing, so there's a lot of great things you can do there. Track Man simulation tools are great. We use some of their tools where you can put a player on a golf hole, right, and you want the player to feel in some scenarios some part of their fitting. So at the beginning of the fitting, you're doing foundational things. You're doing high wrist of floor, you're kind of getting lingele dialed in. You're getting launch conditions dialed in. Then when you want to really make sure that's the right liingle for the player you want to you want to put a little stress on them to see where their miss might show up. That's where you can gamify it. And we call that game like fitting chain. And what we'll do there is if we can, if we can have a tool like uh track man, we can pick a course a hole. Let me just pretend like we're doing a driver. You got a little water over to the right, a little more room to left, but still a little penalizing. We can we can pick a few holes. It's gonna representative of what that player is going to see on the golf course and focus them in. We'll take away all the barrel of balls, so the fitter controls the golf ball. You hand the player one ball at a time. Interesting, so you got one ball at a time. You try to put them in a scenario that's going to be like an encore situation and have the player hit that shot. What you can also do is have him hit that shot, then have them hit maybe a couple wedges, talk to them for a little bit, make them take a one minute break or thirty second break right, and then nudge the player, have them go through their full routine, gamify it a little bit. So there's a lot you can do there in the fitting, especially as it gets later in the fitting where you're trying to make those final selections. Is the shaft right, is the swingweight right? Do have the CG shifter? Should I put it in the fade for this player? The center position. You're getting to the fine adjustments in the fitting that you'll want to do a little bit of that gamification, some of that A B testing.

Yeah, we like to call that game like fitting okay, right, And it's great that whether it's track Man or Foreside or one of the other launch monitors or simulator software I've seen. Skytra has some really cool visuals now where they put literally a wall there. You can create some really good visuals now with the you know, launch mars have become simulators, they've married into one thing, so there's a lot of great things you can do there. Track Man simulation tools are great. We use some of their tools where you can put a player on a golf hole, right, and you want the player to feel in some scenarios some part of their fitting. So at the beginning of the fitting, you're doing foundational things. You're doing high wrist of floor, you're kind of getting lingele dialed in. You're getting launch conditions dialed in. Then when you want to really make sure that's the right liingle for the player you want to you want to put a little stress on them to see where their miss might show up. That's where you can gamify it. And we call that game like fitting chain. And what we'll do there is if we can, if we can have a tool like uh track man, we can pick a course a hole. Let me just pretend like we're doing a driver. You got a little water over to the right, a little more room to left, but still a little penalizing. We can we can pick a few holes. It's gonna representative of what that player is going to see on the golf course and focus them in. We'll take away all the barrel of balls, so the fitter controls the golf ball. You hand the player one ball at a time. Interesting, so you got one ball at a time. You try to put them in a scenario that's going to be like an encore situation and have the player hit that shot. What you can also do is have him hit that shot, then have them hit maybe a couple wedges, talk to them for a little bit, make them take a one minute break or thirty second break right, and then nudge the player, have them go through their full routine, gamify it a little bit. So there's a lot you can do there in the fitting, especially as it gets later in the fitting where you're trying to make those final selections. Is the shaft right, is the swingweight right? Do have the CG shifter? Should I put it in the fade for this player? The center position. You're getting to the fine adjustments in the fitting that you'll want to do a little bit of that gamification, some of that A B testing.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know what happens in fitting and also happens in instruction, and you know, not every constructor in the world can do it. But I've got a new instructor I've been working without in Connecticut. He works out of the country clubed Dairy Anne and I think it was our third or fourth lesson, you know, thirty minutes hitting balls. He goes, all right, let's go to the golf course, you know, and it's let's go out to the golf course and see if what we're talking about now plays when you're actually hitting a golf shot on a golf hole. Because the golfer sees the stuff right, we see trouble, left, we see a tight a tuck hole location, we feel the bailout being where the bailout might exist in And it's it's just such a good thing to do in general as a golfer is to make it as as as round normal as possible, you.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know what happens in fitting and also happens in instruction, and you know, not every constructor in the world can do it. But I've got a new instructor I've been working without in Connecticut. He works out of the country clubed Dairy Anne and I think it was our third or fourth lesson, you know, thirty minutes hitting balls. He goes, all right, let's go to the golf course, you know, and it's let's go out to the golf course and see if what we're talking about now plays when you're actually hitting a golf shot on a golf hole. Because the golfer sees the stuff right, we see trouble, left, we see a tight a tuck hole location, we feel the bailout being where the bailout might exist in And it's it's just such a good thing to do in general as a golfer is to make it as as as round normal as possible, you.

Know, yep. And I go back to Shane with how can we make fittings more like a tour fitting, Because let me here's how a tour fitting goes. Right. We got the truck. There were there on Monday, players like, hey, things that are a little off with my driver. Let's let's do some work, right, So maybe we build him a new driver. We got we got a new chaft. Maybe this player wants to try a little longer length to get a little more ball speed, And we got a new shaft, new driver length. Maybe a new golf ball came out, right, What are they going to do? They hit them on the range, get it dialed in, they go play nine holes Monday afternoon or Tuesday, they're going to play nine They're gonna take it to the course, right, So I think you painted the exact scenario, whether it's instruction or fitting. They have a lot of similarities. That's what the better player does. Not everyone can do that and go out to the golf course. So how can you bring that level of stress gamification, put a little heat on it, the right amount for the player in the environment, and bring that into the fitting scenario. At the Pink proven Grounds, you've been here, Shane, where we have the post on the end of our range. Yeah, exactly twenty yards wide. So you know, for some players it's like, hey, you two of those posts forty yards that's going to be an average fairway with For a lot of players. You get a tour player in and you get them in a major environment, their fairwy's gonna be twenty yards wide. We use those to gamify the fitting. There's a lot to take away all the balls and just having one golf ball there. I'll tell you that as well. That's a nice little hack.

Know, yep. And I go back to Shane with how can we make fittings more like a tour fitting, Because let me here's how a tour fitting goes. Right. We got the truck. There were there on Monday, players like, hey, things that are a little off with my driver. Let's let's do some work, right, So maybe we build him a new driver. We got we got a new chaft. Maybe this player wants to try a little longer length to get a little more ball speed, And we got a new shaft, new driver length. Maybe a new golf ball came out, right, What are they going to do? They hit them on the range, get it dialed in, they go play nine holes Monday afternoon or Tuesday, they're going to play nine They're gonna take it to the course, right, So I think you painted the exact scenario, whether it's instruction or fitting. They have a lot of similarities. That's what the better player does. Not everyone can do that and go out to the golf course. So how can you bring that level of stress gamification, put a little heat on it, the right amount for the player in the environment, and bring that into the fitting scenario. At the Pink proven Grounds, you've been here, Shane, where we have the post on the end of our range. Yeah, exactly twenty yards wide. So you know, for some players it's like, hey, you two of those posts forty yards that's going to be an average fairway with For a lot of players. You get a tour player in and you get them in a major environment, their fairwy's gonna be twenty yards wide. We use those to gamify the fitting. There's a lot to take away all the balls and just having one golf ball there. I'll tell you that as well. That's a nice little hack.

It's really really smart.

It's really really smart.

Party.

Party.

It feels like we're in a world now where indoor fitting has surpassed outdoor fitting. It feels like the majority of fittings these days are indoors.

It feels like we're in a world now where indoor fitting has surpassed outdoor fitting. It feels like the majority of fittings these days are indoors.

That fair to say, yeah, I think we see that, you know, whether it's you know, our partners at PGA Tour super Store or Golf Galaxy or Second Swings and they have beautiful fitting base, right. And the benefit is again it's not all negative. The benefit is that there's some you have great launch monitors that are measuring the key metrics that you care about. Right. I think one thing Shane I did want to bring up is is you know the turf interaction. You don't have the turf interaction interaction, So what do you do when you're fitting, lyingle and analyzing things of that nature. So we have some tools here, right, we have grind tape. You can put grind tape on the bottom very skilled fitters and I highly end is what is grind tape?

That fair to say, yeah, I think we see that, you know, whether it's you know, our partners at PGA Tour super Store or Golf Galaxy or Second Swings and they have beautiful fitting base, right. And the benefit is again it's not all negative. The benefit is that there's some you have great launch monitors that are measuring the key metrics that you care about. Right. I think one thing Shane I did want to bring up is is you know the turf interaction. You don't have the turf interaction interaction, So what do you do when you're fitting, lyingle and analyzing things of that nature. So we have some tools here, right, we have grind tape. You can put grind tape on the bottom very skilled fitters and I highly end is what is grind tape?

Can you just expand on that a bit?

Can you just expand on that a bit?

Yeah, grind tape is a diagnostic tape. It's a tape when you mark it on a matt or one of our lieboards which we now called the diagnostic board come a plexiglass board you hit off, gives you a visual representation of where you're contacting. What is the pressure distribution on the bottom of the club, and that can be a proxy for what your turf interaction may be like out on the golf course. Right, So we put this tape on the bottom of the club, maybe your wedges if you're doing a wedge fitting, and if somebody hits close, if they mark or that pressure that contact is closer to the lead edge, they're generally generally steeper with a lot of shaffleing, So we can go to more bounce. Generally, right, if somebody contacts closer to the trailing edge, they generally have a little less schaffling and or might be a little shallower on their angle of attack. We can go to less bounce and try to get that golf ball contacting on the face a little bit higher. So there's a really good kind of visual indication that can be a proxy for bounce. And we can also use that lie tape or diagnostic tape that we put on the bottom of the club for liingel fitting. And the big thing I want to stress to everybody with lingle fitting indoors. Even though there's tools out there and launch monitors can measure your three D dynamic delivered lingle. That is not how you set up to the club at address, but you got the droop of the shaft, the hands raised going into impact based on the forces that you're applying to the club, so the dynamic delivery of that club A lot of fitters and even consumers, and it seems very logical to try to get that zeroed out, like you want the lingel delivered perfectly at impact, and that's what you should shoot for, and they won't pay attention to the spin on the golf ball or the curve of the golf ball. We have seen a lot of players they're perfect fitting in their irons. They will deliver it slightly flat, some players actually slightly upright. But you're solving four curve of the golf ball, right, you want to minimize the spin axis. And I would use minimizing your spin axis or curve as a more important metric from a launch monitor than trying to get zeroed out unlingle even though that sounds very good in theory, right, because there's other ways manipulating the shaftleing, manipulating the torque and twist, and the three D delivery of the club face a little bit open, a little bit close. Every player has a little bit of variability in how they do that, even our tour players, they all do it a little bit differently, but they all solve for hitting that ball very straight from a curve perspective. When it comes to lingle fitting.

Yeah, grind tape is a diagnostic tape. It's a tape when you mark it on a matt or one of our lieboards which we now called the diagnostic board come a plexiglass board you hit off, gives you a visual representation of where you're contacting. What is the pressure distribution on the bottom of the club, and that can be a proxy for what your turf interaction may be like out on the golf course. Right, So we put this tape on the bottom of the club, maybe your wedges if you're doing a wedge fitting, and if somebody hits close, if they mark or that pressure that contact is closer to the lead edge, they're generally generally steeper with a lot of shaffleing, So we can go to more bounce. Generally, right, if somebody contacts closer to the trailing edge, they generally have a little less schaffling and or might be a little shallower on their angle of attack. We can go to less bounce and try to get that golf ball contacting on the face a little bit higher. So there's a really good kind of visual indication that can be a proxy for bounce. And we can also use that lie tape or diagnostic tape that we put on the bottom of the club for liingel fitting. And the big thing I want to stress to everybody with lingle fitting indoors. Even though there's tools out there and launch monitors can measure your three D dynamic delivered lingle. That is not how you set up to the club at address, but you got the droop of the shaft, the hands raised going into impact based on the forces that you're applying to the club, so the dynamic delivery of that club A lot of fitters and even consumers, and it seems very logical to try to get that zeroed out, like you want the lingel delivered perfectly at impact, and that's what you should shoot for, and they won't pay attention to the spin on the golf ball or the curve of the golf ball. We have seen a lot of players they're perfect fitting in their irons. They will deliver it slightly flat, some players actually slightly upright. But you're solving four curve of the golf ball, right, you want to minimize the spin axis. And I would use minimizing your spin axis or curve as a more important metric from a launch monitor than trying to get zeroed out unlingle even though that sounds very good in theory, right, because there's other ways manipulating the shaftleing, manipulating the torque and twist, and the three D delivery of the club face a little bit open, a little bit close. Every player has a little bit of variability in how they do that, even our tour players, they all do it a little bit differently, but they all solve for hitting that ball very straight from a curve perspective. When it comes to lingle fitting.

It sounds like something you're saying across both platforms. If you're getting fit outdoors or indoors, is trying to make it feel as golfy as possible. It's like warm up the same where something you'd when you're playing golf. Don't try to overswing or underswing. It's like, do everything you can to allow the fitter to see who you are as the golfer. You are, not somebody you're trying to be or not somebody you know the numbers. Don't don't try to beef up your numbers just because you want it to look better to the fitter, because you've got to go live with the golf clubs.

It sounds like something you're saying across both platforms. If you're getting fit outdoors or indoors, is trying to make it feel as golfy as possible. It's like warm up the same where something you'd when you're playing golf. Don't try to overswing or underswing. It's like, do everything you can to allow the fitter to see who you are as the golfer. You are, not somebody you're trying to be or not somebody you know the numbers. Don't don't try to beef up your numbers just because you want it to look better to the fitter, because you've got to go live with the golf clubs.

That you just got fit for. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I think I think a good fitter also, and our tour fitters are great at this will have players not you know, if it's a better player. You got to know who you're fitting, right yep. So if you're a higher handicapped player and you don't hit punch shots, you're not changing your trajectory. You're just trying to master your one skill, full swing, hit the ball solid, that's what you should be doing in your fitting. Now let's go to I remember we were doing this with Hunter Mayhan Chain. He would have an issue where when he hit a three quarter trajectory shot, his dynamic delivery would change any pull it right, So we would always he's stressing him in his fitting. It's very easy to get the tour player to come in and hit their stock shot and pure every single one. You know, we can give them a different line goal, they'll adjust, give them a different shaft, they'll adjust. Where their issues show up is when they start hitting ball above their feet, shot, ball below their feet, shot three quarter shot, control your spin. Things start to change a little bit, so you need a good fitter will have different tools in their toolbox. So if you're a better player, I would say go in there and actually try to hit. Let's say you're getting fit for irons. Hit some shots where you're trying to curve it a little bit. If that's something you do, hit some little draws, hit some little fades, hit some knockdown shots. Make that part of your fitting. If you're a higher handicap player, you're just trying to have your one swing and do it good. That's what you should do in that fitting environment. In both cases, Shane, I think you nailed it. Try to represent the types of shots that you're gonna be able to hit on the golf course. And it's really fun to gamify it. And you can do this yourself out without a fitter knowing you're doing it. You can kind of guide yourself and put a little stress on yourself. Uh, during that fitting process.

That you just got fit for. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I think I think a good fitter also, and our tour fitters are great at this will have players not you know, if it's a better player. You got to know who you're fitting, right yep. So if you're a higher handicapped player and you don't hit punch shots, you're not changing your trajectory. You're just trying to master your one skill, full swing, hit the ball solid, that's what you should be doing in your fitting. Now let's go to I remember we were doing this with Hunter Mayhan Chain. He would have an issue where when he hit a three quarter trajectory shot, his dynamic delivery would change any pull it right, So we would always he's stressing him in his fitting. It's very easy to get the tour player to come in and hit their stock shot and pure every single one. You know, we can give them a different line goal, they'll adjust, give them a different shaft, they'll adjust. Where their issues show up is when they start hitting ball above their feet, shot, ball below their feet, shot three quarter shot, control your spin. Things start to change a little bit, so you need a good fitter will have different tools in their toolbox. So if you're a better player, I would say go in there and actually try to hit. Let's say you're getting fit for irons. Hit some shots where you're trying to curve it a little bit. If that's something you do, hit some little draws, hit some little fades, hit some knockdown shots. Make that part of your fitting. If you're a higher handicap player, you're just trying to have your one swing and do it good. That's what you should do in that fitting environment. In both cases, Shane, I think you nailed it. Try to represent the types of shots that you're gonna be able to hit on the golf course. And it's really fun to gamify it. And you can do this yourself out without a fitter knowing you're doing it. You can kind of guide yourself and put a little stress on yourself. Uh, during that fitting process.

When Pink comes out with new equipment, how long does a fitting like when you have to fit a tour player for new equipment, all the new equipment that Pink's coming out for, how long do those fittings last? So a couple hours long? Is it an hour?

When Pink comes out with new equipment, how long does a fitting like when you have to fit a tour player for new equipment, all the new equipment that Pink's coming out for, how long do those fittings last? So a couple hours long? Is it an hour?

Yeah? Sometimes some of our lead players, Man, we'll go spend a half a day with them right now. And and the reason why, Shane, Let's say we want to we want to get them some equipment and then we'll go play nine holes with them or six holes. Right, we want to get that player on the golf course. It's not something every everybody has access to. I realize that, but on the tour level absolutely like a lot of times we'll get them into the equipment. Then it's it's it's always in the minds of the better player. Okay, let me go see how this does on the course. Yeah right, that's the default. You got to take it to the golf course. So when we're launching something with UH, with our our our PGA Tour top players, we'll take it out on the golf course. And like I said, I think for the everyday golfer, even myself, I'm here here at the proving grounds, We're going to try to bring that on course into the into the fitting and UH and it's super fun. That's actually a big area we're still working on is how can we gamify and create really good protocols to kind of have that on course type environment during your fitting.

Yeah? Sometimes some of our lead players, Man, we'll go spend a half a day with them right now. And and the reason why, Shane, Let's say we want to we want to get them some equipment and then we'll go play nine holes with them or six holes. Right, we want to get that player on the golf course. It's not something every everybody has access to. I realize that, but on the tour level absolutely like a lot of times we'll get them into the equipment. Then it's it's it's always in the minds of the better player. Okay, let me go see how this does on the course. Yeah right, that's the default. You got to take it to the golf course. So when we're launching something with UH, with our our our PGA Tour top players, we'll take it out on the golf course. And like I said, I think for the everyday golfer, even myself, I'm here here at the proving grounds, We're going to try to bring that on course into the into the fitting and UH and it's super fun. That's actually a big area we're still working on is how can we gamify and create really good protocols to kind of have that on course type environment during your fitting.

Has there ever been a thought in terms of like adding terrain to the range shit ping, like adding it where you can create lies that are above your feet or you can stand up taller than where the ball is. Has there ever been a thought into putting a part I mean, I know it's not the largest range on the planet, but it's a pretty big driving range. Is there an area that you've thought about making ground where you could force players to hit those types of shots?

Has there ever been a thought in terms of like adding terrain to the range shit ping, like adding it where you can create lies that are above your feet or you can stand up taller than where the ball is. Has there ever been a thought into putting a part I mean, I know it's not the largest range on the planet, but it's a pretty big driving range. Is there an area that you've thought about making ground where you could force players to hit those types of shots?

Yeah, no, absolutely, Shane. That is something we're working on. I think it's something that the golf community is really enjoyed. If you've seen kind of the puttview type of mats, you know our platform, the ability to change slope, and it's an active area of research for us. We've just done some academic research on that, like, hey, if golfers have the ball below their feet above the feet, how does their dynamic delivery change. We've done some motion capture research with our our European performance team. That's really fun. So that's something we're actually diving into at the moment, active area of research for us, even including on the putting side, right because we have our we have our outdoor green where we have it three D scanned, we have a map of it, just like the tour books and things of that nature, so we can go and pick those very specific slopes. We've seen the benefits of that in the short game area, and we do think there is a space for that in the full swing side of the club fitting process.

Yeah, no, absolutely, Shane. That is something we're working on. I think it's something that the golf community is really enjoyed. If you've seen kind of the puttview type of mats, you know our platform, the ability to change slope, and it's an active area of research for us. We've just done some academic research on that, like, hey, if golfers have the ball below their feet above the feet, how does their dynamic delivery change. We've done some motion capture research with our our European performance team. That's really fun. So that's something we're actually diving into at the moment, active area of research for us, even including on the putting side, right because we have our we have our outdoor green where we have it three D scanned, we have a map of it, just like the tour books and things of that nature, so we can go and pick those very specific slopes. We've seen the benefits of that in the short game area, and we do think there is a space for that in the full swing side of the club fitting process.

Yes, Marty, you're gonna be the worst retired person ever. You're just gonna be texting your predecessor and saying we should do this.

Yes, Marty, you're gonna be the worst retired person ever. You're just gonna be texting your predecessor and saying we should do this.

Have you thought about this?

Have you thought about this?

It's gonna be a They're gonna block your number at some point, Like I'm done with this guy, he's retiring, moved on, he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna keep going. But for now, PING has you and UH we get so many of these insights that are so interesting and I love always pushing you know. That's something I've found so interesting doing this podcast with you and so many of the people that have been involved in the podcast. The work at PING is that push to continue to be great, right, I mean, you can't be stagnant this business in any capacity, if you're a player, if you're a manufacturer, if you're a coach, any of these things. You can't just stay the same because the game changes so often. But you know, seeing the constant push to improve, even you know, with how good everything is at PING is very very cool to see. So there you go. As we said, winter months are upon us and UH and a lot of people are gonna try to get fit for some new clubs. And you know, now, don't be so scared about getting fit indoors, because it'll be just as good as getting fit outdoors.

It's gonna be a They're gonna block your number at some point, Like I'm done with this guy, he's retiring, moved on, he's gonna, he's gonna, he's gonna keep going. But for now, PING has you and UH we get so many of these insights that are so interesting and I love always pushing you know. That's something I've found so interesting doing this podcast with you and so many of the people that have been involved in the podcast. The work at PING is that push to continue to be great, right, I mean, you can't be stagnant this business in any capacity, if you're a player, if you're a manufacturer, if you're a coach, any of these things. You can't just stay the same because the game changes so often. But you know, seeing the constant push to improve, even you know, with how good everything is at PING is very very cool to see. So there you go. As we said, winter months are upon us and UH and a lot of people are gonna try to get fit for some new clubs. And you know, now, don't be so scared about getting fit indoors, because it'll be just as good as getting fit outdoors.

Absolutely, Shane. No one other thing I'd say about getting fit indoors is you'll get really good launch conditions for let's say you're fitting seven iron and driver. Jot them down, drop drop down your ball speed, launch and spin okay, and then and consider pairing the golf ball using Balnamic. So that's our ball fitting website, our ball fitting tool. That's the ultimate cherry on top because you're gonna get really good launch condition numbers with the premium golf ball indoors. Jot down your driver and seven iron ball speed, launch and spin if you go out there, and then that's where you can marry your club fitting, your ball fitting synergistically. So one last little tip there to get the most out of indoor fitting environment.

Absolutely, Shane. No one other thing I'd say about getting fit indoors is you'll get really good launch conditions for let's say you're fitting seven iron and driver. Jot them down, drop drop down your ball speed, launch and spin okay, and then and consider pairing the golf ball using Balnamic. So that's our ball fitting website, our ball fitting tool. That's the ultimate cherry on top because you're gonna get really good launch condition numbers with the premium golf ball indoors. Jot down your driver and seven iron ball speed, launch and spin if you go out there, and then that's where you can marry your club fitting, your ball fitting synergistically. So one last little tip there to get the most out of indoor fitting environment.

Indoor fittings, it's gonna get cold. I'm not excited about the cold, but I do lean on the indoor golf facilities a decent amount of the winter months. Marty appreciate the time and the insight has always This is the Paying Proven Grounds podcast

Indoor fittings, it's gonna get cold. I'm not excited about the cold, but I do lean on the indoor golf facilities a decent amount of the winter months. Marty appreciate the time and the insight has always This is the Paying Proven Grounds podcast