The guys from paying They've kind of shown me how much the equipment matters.

The guys from paying They've kind of shown me how much the equipment matters.

I just love that I can hit any shot.

I just love that I can hit any shot.

I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and Marty. I want to discuss something with you today that is mentioned probably one hundred times around from everybody that plays golf and maybe isn't quite understood to the level that maybe would help golfers out there. Let's talk a little bit about spin today. Spin in friction, specifically with wedges, and I want to start here, Marty. We talk about spin. We see spin on videos, like there's some shots that we saw this year on the PGA Tour, you know, balls hitting a couple of times in stopping, you know, some of the great shots we've seen some of the best players in the world hit all kind of created with spin, spin back, things that average golfers want to do more often. But I want to just start with, like, where does spin come from? How is spin created for any golfer, whether it be Victor Hovelin or me or a twenty five handicap.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and Marty. I want to discuss something with you today that is mentioned probably one hundred times around from everybody that plays golf and maybe isn't quite understood to the level that maybe would help golfers out there. Let's talk a little bit about spin today. Spin in friction, specifically with wedges, and I want to start here, Marty. We talk about spin. We see spin on videos, like there's some shots that we saw this year on the PGA Tour, you know, balls hitting a couple of times in stopping, you know, some of the great shots we've seen some of the best players in the world hit all kind of created with spin, spin back, things that average golfers want to do more often. But I want to just start with, like, where does spin come from? How is spin created for any golfer, whether it be Victor Hovelin or me or a twenty five handicap.

Yeah, Shane, I think that's the that's a great place to start. Like what creates spin? Right, So if you have an impact or a club with zero loft on it, and you don't hit up or down on the ball, so club's coming in perfectly straight, no loft on it, all of the energy transfer, the momentum transfer between the ball and the face will be what's called kind of normal to the golf ball, or just make the golf ball translate only so just linearly so it'll come off with no spin. So anytime you start introducing an angle there, which the golf kind of teaching community technical community is kind of calling spin loft. Now, right, anytime you have this angle and you have the club moving forward, you're going to generate kind OF's what's called a tangential force. So you got to force acting on the golf ball that's gonna impart ball speed, and then you have a force that's gonna act on the ball that's gonna kind of flick it and put in part rotation onto the golf ball, and that's what causes spin. So there's ways to influence how much that tangential force, how big that tangential force is, And the bigger you can get that tangential force, the more spin you're gonna put on the golf ball. And there's some things that can influence that tangential force. Those are gonna be the club head speed. So the faster you have the club going, the bigger that potential you have to get that tangential force, the more backspin you can put on the golf ball. The other big one is the coefficient of friction, So the more friction you can get between the ball and the club face, the more potential you have to impart backspin on the golf ball. And then the angle. There's kind of this sweet spot here on the angle how much you open the face, And this is where things get a little nuanced and a little complicated, because you can have a higher friction at some angles doesn't change the spin as much. There's a reason why nobody's playing eighty degree lob wedges out there, because you actually start to lose spin over a certain threshold on that angle. So there's a lot kind of going on in the impact physics and the microphysics but that's kind of the general principle of how spin is created, which is really fun to think about, really fun to think about.

Yeah, Shane, I think that's the that's a great place to start. Like what creates spin? Right, So if you have an impact or a club with zero loft on it, and you don't hit up or down on the ball, so club's coming in perfectly straight, no loft on it, all of the energy transfer, the momentum transfer between the ball and the face will be what's called kind of normal to the golf ball, or just make the golf ball translate only so just linearly so it'll come off with no spin. So anytime you start introducing an angle there, which the golf kind of teaching community technical community is kind of calling spin loft. Now, right, anytime you have this angle and you have the club moving forward, you're going to generate kind OF's what's called a tangential force. So you got to force acting on the golf ball that's gonna impart ball speed, and then you have a force that's gonna act on the ball that's gonna kind of flick it and put in part rotation onto the golf ball, and that's what causes spin. So there's ways to influence how much that tangential force, how big that tangential force is, And the bigger you can get that tangential force, the more spin you're gonna put on the golf ball. And there's some things that can influence that tangential force. Those are gonna be the club head speed. So the faster you have the club going, the bigger that potential you have to get that tangential force, the more backspin you can put on the golf ball. The other big one is the coefficient of friction, So the more friction you can get between the ball and the club face, the more potential you have to impart backspin on the golf ball. And then the angle. There's kind of this sweet spot here on the angle how much you open the face, And this is where things get a little nuanced and a little complicated, because you can have a higher friction at some angles doesn't change the spin as much. There's a reason why nobody's playing eighty degree lob wedges out there, because you actually start to lose spin over a certain threshold on that angle. So there's a lot kind of going on in the impact physics and the microphysics but that's kind of the general principle of how spin is created, which is really fun to think about, really fun to think about.

All right, So let's take a high level player. Let's take somebody that's, you know, tour level or a really high level amateur player. They're always trying to control spin. You know, there were so many times I'm calling corn faery golf and you get a feeling, right, guys in the middle of fairway, you know, pins in the back of the green. They've got a short wedge in hand, but it's a full shot and a lot of the time you'll hear me say you got to watch the spin, right, I mean, they can rip that back to the middle of the green, front of the green, even spin it off the green. And then on the other side of things, you've got a high handicap player that's just trying to spin the golf ball.

All right, So let's take a high level player. Let's take somebody that's, you know, tour level or a really high level amateur player. They're always trying to control spin. You know, there were so many times I'm calling corn faery golf and you get a feeling, right, guys in the middle of fairway, you know, pins in the back of the green. They've got a short wedge in hand, but it's a full shot and a lot of the time you'll hear me say you got to watch the spin, right, I mean, they can rip that back to the middle of the green, front of the green, even spin it off the green. And then on the other side of things, you've got a high handicap player that's just trying to spin the golf ball.

Right, they're trying to create spin.

Right, they're trying to create spin.

Why does that happen between Why are high level players that hit the ball a decent amount and can hit it pretty far can try to control spin while maybe a shorter hit or higher handicap player is trying to find spin when they can't get it.

Why does that happen between Why are high level players that hit the ball a decent amount and can hit it pretty far can try to control spin while maybe a shorter hit or higher handicap player is trying to find spin when they can't get it.

Great question and yes, absolutely, the high level player those backpins good greens. Okay, so you got good players have higher club ed speed, so you got that one ingredient we talked about that have high speed. High speed generally will generate more spin you have.

Great question and yes, absolutely, the high level player those backpins good greens. Okay, so you got good players have higher club ed speed, so you got that one ingredient we talked about that have high speed. High speed generally will generate more spin you have.

Is that just simply is that just just from the club at speed, Like if you're just breaking it down, that's simply because you swing a wedge and non iron, a seven iron faster than the person that does it.

Is that just simply is that just just from the club at speed, Like if you're just breaking it down, that's simply because you swing a wedge and non iron, a seven iron faster than the person that does it.

That's just basic it.

That's just basic it.

Okay, yes, yeah, so that's gonna apply a bigger what's called a force vector. So you get a bigger force vector, you got not only more ball speed, but also more potential for that tangential forcea to generate more spin on the ball. So more speed, more spin. It's one of the benefits of gaining speed is that you can spin your irons more. Right, if we talk about the the high handicapped player that needs to spin it more in a lot of scenarios to stop that ball in the green. So let's go back to that high elite level tournament player. They're in that that condition. They got high club ed speed, so they're trying to either reduce their club ed speed to reduce the spin. They're playing a high quality golf ball, right, They're playing a eurothane cover, high quality golf ball. They're on a well manicured golf course. So they got yes, you have a tight lie. So when you have a tight, clean lie, let's assume it's not raining or fuzzy fairways. You got tight fairways, You're going to have very clean friction between the ball and the face, the clean contact, so that's going to help increase the spin. And then you have you know, maybe fast greens and a pitch green, and then these players know how to deliver the club with their wedges to hit kind of that sweet spot spin loft that's going to maximize spin as well. So you have a lot of these core ingredients where the better player, oftentimes especially to those backpins, greens, pitch back to front, they're trying to figure out how to reduce their spin. So they can do that by reducing their club speed a little bit, swing a little slower, right, they can reduce it by changing their spin loft, maybe playing a wedge with a little bit less loft on it. They can change kind of their handle delivery. How much shaffling there is going into impact, and so players do this very differently. Some combination of those ingredients are going to change, you know, help them reduce their spin. Also, they can hit a club with less loft and reduce their launch angle, which ultimately what they're trying to do is change their descent angle. They want that ball coming in and laying on a shallower angle, and that's going to help the ball skip a little bit more on that first bouncer get.

Okay, yes, yeah, so that's gonna apply a bigger what's called a force vector. So you get a bigger force vector, you got not only more ball speed, but also more potential for that tangential forcea to generate more spin on the ball. So more speed, more spin. It's one of the benefits of gaining speed is that you can spin your irons more. Right, if we talk about the the high handicapped player that needs to spin it more in a lot of scenarios to stop that ball in the green. So let's go back to that high elite level tournament player. They're in that that condition. They got high club ed speed, so they're trying to either reduce their club ed speed to reduce the spin. They're playing a high quality golf ball, right, They're playing a eurothane cover, high quality golf ball. They're on a well manicured golf course. So they got yes, you have a tight lie. So when you have a tight, clean lie, let's assume it's not raining or fuzzy fairways. You got tight fairways, You're going to have very clean friction between the ball and the face, the clean contact, so that's going to help increase the spin. And then you have you know, maybe fast greens and a pitch green, and then these players know how to deliver the club with their wedges to hit kind of that sweet spot spin loft that's going to maximize spin as well. So you have a lot of these core ingredients where the better player, oftentimes especially to those backpins, greens, pitch back to front, they're trying to figure out how to reduce their spin. So they can do that by reducing their club speed a little bit, swing a little slower, right, they can reduce it by changing their spin loft, maybe playing a wedge with a little bit less loft on it. They can change kind of their handle delivery. How much shaffling there is going into impact, and so players do this very differently. Some combination of those ingredients are going to change, you know, help them reduce their spin. Also, they can hit a club with less loft and reduce their launch angle, which ultimately what they're trying to do is change their descent angle. They want that ball coming in and laying on a shallower angle, and that's going to help the ball skip a little bit more on that first bouncer get.

Not get that rip effect like that high and then it's just ripping back twenty five feet.

Not get that rip effect like that high and then it's just ripping back twenty five feet.

Not get that initial rip. So a lot of times some of those shots shine will will still have very high spin and us we're kind of calling it and golf slang. Hey, they're going to reduce their spin. Technically, they might hit a shot that still has ten eleven thousand RPMs of spin. They're just controlling their land angle. Interesting quite a bit, right so, and it's okay to kind of call it spin. A lot of times they are actually reducing their spin a little bit. But the big thing I think that the better players doing in those scenarios when they're quote unquote controlling their spin is also just as much reducing the land angle and having the ball land shallower.

Not get that initial rip. So a lot of times some of those shots shine will will still have very high spin and us we're kind of calling it and golf slang. Hey, they're going to reduce their spin. Technically, they might hit a shot that still has ten eleven thousand RPMs of spin. They're just controlling their land angle. Interesting quite a bit, right so, and it's okay to kind of call it spin. A lot of times they are actually reducing their spin a little bit. But the big thing I think that the better players doing in those scenarios when they're quote unquote controlling their spin is also just as much reducing the land angle and having the ball land shallower.

Marty, you're somebody that spends a lot of time on on not just your own golf game, but understanding golf. Let's say you've got one hundred and fifteen yards, Like, what's your sand wedge stock ten, one fifteen?

Marty, you're somebody that spends a lot of time on on not just your own golf game, but understanding golf. Let's say you've got one hundred and fifteen yards, Like, what's your sand wedge stock ten, one fifteen?

What my sam my fifty six bent to fifty five is right at one fifteen in Phoenix, Arizona gol All right.

What my sam my fifty six bent to fifty five is right at one fifteen in Phoenix, Arizona gol All right.

Yeap, So so we've we've got one hundred and fifteen yard backpen for you, Marty.

Yeap, So so we've we've got one hundred and fifteen yard backpen for you, Marty.

Yep.

Yep.

How are you hitting that shot and getting it close? Obviously factoring and all the things we've already talked about. I mean, you know your spin, how it's going to come in. What do you do specifically that maybe somebody at home could try to work on or put into their own game.

How are you hitting that shot and getting it close? Obviously factoring and all the things we've already talked about. I mean, you know your spin, how it's going to come in. What do you do specifically that maybe somebody at home could try to work on or put into their own game.

Yeah. Yeah, So in that scenario, I would usually hit a gap wedge, which is full out, like one your club. I'm a club, I'm gonna club up. I'm gonna go to my one thirty club, which is my gap wedge. I'm gonna grip down a little bit. I kind of vary that maybe an inch two inches at the most. I think some of the better players actually grip down a little bit more. I need an experiment with that, but I'm gonna grip down a little bit. Gripping down a little bit helps me get more shaffling and more handling. And I also stand closer to the golf ball, so that also helps me get more shaffling. Right, So those variables help me get more shaffling while also uh slowing my clubhead speed. So so grip down on it, you're going to deliver less clubhead speed, so less clubheed speed. We talked about, it's going to reduce your spin. Gripping down, I can get more shaftling, so I can reduce my spin lof launch it lower, and that in turn will reduce the land agle the golf ball. I'm also shamed. What I do is I narrow my stance. I will narrow my stance. That will take out This gets into kind of how you power the golf swing a little bit. But by narrowing the stance, I reduce how much lateral force I'm generating in the in the swing. So that's kind of the step right, step step left powering that you can use, you know, power the golf swing and get more club at speed by narrowing your stance, you reduce that and in part a bigger percentage of your swing just the twisting force. And so that's a way that I have found through experimentation and Derek Dominski Golf better twos on it we've had on the pod is help at the spin doctor. He also knows how to take off spin okay, and you know how to generate spin. He's good at helping that with so a distance control, stand with the narrow stance, so stand closer, narrow stance, grip down. Then you know, I kind of as an experiment a little bit with a little clock system if you want to from one fifteen. I think if I do all those things and standing with the very narrow stance, I actually have a hard time hitting my gap page past that one fifteen number. So I can go ahead and swing relatively what I feel like is full, but I won't have the up and down going. I won't have the left right. It'll be all twisting force, twisting power, a rotational power and hit that one fifteen number.

Yeah. Yeah, So in that scenario, I would usually hit a gap wedge, which is full out, like one your club. I'm a club, I'm gonna club up. I'm gonna go to my one thirty club, which is my gap wedge. I'm gonna grip down a little bit. I kind of vary that maybe an inch two inches at the most. I think some of the better players actually grip down a little bit more. I need an experiment with that, but I'm gonna grip down a little bit. Gripping down a little bit helps me get more shaffling and more handling. And I also stand closer to the golf ball, so that also helps me get more shaffling. Right, So those variables help me get more shaffling while also uh slowing my clubhead speed. So so grip down on it, you're going to deliver less clubhead speed, so less clubheed speed. We talked about, it's going to reduce your spin. Gripping down, I can get more shaftling, so I can reduce my spin lof launch it lower, and that in turn will reduce the land agle the golf ball. I'm also shamed. What I do is I narrow my stance. I will narrow my stance. That will take out This gets into kind of how you power the golf swing a little bit. But by narrowing the stance, I reduce how much lateral force I'm generating in the in the swing. So that's kind of the step right, step step left powering that you can use, you know, power the golf swing and get more club at speed by narrowing your stance, you reduce that and in part a bigger percentage of your swing just the twisting force. And so that's a way that I have found through experimentation and Derek Dominski Golf better twos on it we've had on the pod is help at the spin doctor. He also knows how to take off spin okay, and you know how to generate spin. He's good at helping that with so a distance control, stand with the narrow stance, so stand closer, narrow stance, grip down. Then you know, I kind of as an experiment a little bit with a little clock system if you want to from one fifteen. I think if I do all those things and standing with the very narrow stance, I actually have a hard time hitting my gap page past that one fifteen number. So I can go ahead and swing relatively what I feel like is full, but I won't have the up and down going. I won't have the left right. It'll be all twisting force, twisting power, a rotational power and hit that one fifteen number.

Yeah, you know what's interesting you say that, Marty, I mean something I find myself struggling with when I do what you're talking about because I do a lot of what you said, and I think I might even do it when I don't know i'm doing it. I think I do the narrow stance. I mean I take more club a lot when I'm trying to hit kind of the driving wedge into the back pin or whatever. One thing I do find is a lot of the time I'll hit the shot, it'll land short of where I wanted it to, and I'll think to myself, you know, at.

Yeah, you know what's interesting you say that, Marty, I mean something I find myself struggling with when I do what you're talking about because I do a lot of what you said, and I think I might even do it when I don't know i'm doing it. I think I do the narrow stance. I mean I take more club a lot when I'm trying to hit kind of the driving wedge into the back pin or whatever. One thing I do find is a lot of the time I'll hit the shot, it'll land short of where I wanted it to, and I'll think to myself, you know, at.

Least hit it.

Least hit it.

But to your point, it makes sense if you're you know, if you're narrow in the stance and you know you're doing certain things that are going to take distance off a full shot anyway, reminding yourself that now all of a sudden, a full golf shot is going to go to that pen versus if you're trying to hit the thing full out one third.

But to your point, it makes sense if you're you know, if you're narrow in the stance and you know you're doing certain things that are going to take distance off a full shot anyway, reminding yourself that now all of a sudden, a full golf shot is going to go to that pen versus if you're trying to hit the thing full out one third.

Yeah, Shane, If you have a home launch monitor, this this is a great test and for the listener that wants to do this. If you have a little home launch monitor, next time you have access to get on a launch monitor, do this test where you hit some wedges with literally your feet together. Okay, so stand with your feet literally touching or maybe one ball with the part or something like that. I like to look and judge my stance with by how far apart my heels are with my golf shoes. So just stand one inch apart, a couple of golf balls apart, and swing literally as hard as you can and measure how far it goes. Do that with your wedges and you can see everyone's gonna be a little bit different. But you can kind of have that as a little hacked control how far you hit your wedges, and that way, Shane, you get to you get to that environment where maybe you got one twenty and you but you can't go long, Like you're dead if you go long. But the same time, you got a wedge in your hand, let's try to make a birdie. I mean that is a great scenario. I think the best wedge players and we're talking about looking at stats from the tour players. I mean, we've done really cool analysis that you know, Victor's a little bit like this when he gets on he's very aggressive. We saw him do this last year at the end of the playoffs. Yep back pins. He got very aggressive to those and he had the ability to control that distance. We've seen this from the likes of Justin Thomas, very aggressive wedge player. Maybe one out of ten shots he will short sight himself, but he can lean on short game to get that ball up and down. But you don't, you know, I think in order to get better at the game, it's okay to kind of have some skills in there with your wedges where you can get more aggressive, you know, and and get that ball close to the whole if you can control the spin in the trajectory.

Yeah, Shane, If you have a home launch monitor, this this is a great test and for the listener that wants to do this. If you have a little home launch monitor, next time you have access to get on a launch monitor, do this test where you hit some wedges with literally your feet together. Okay, so stand with your feet literally touching or maybe one ball with the part or something like that. I like to look and judge my stance with by how far apart my heels are with my golf shoes. So just stand one inch apart, a couple of golf balls apart, and swing literally as hard as you can and measure how far it goes. Do that with your wedges and you can see everyone's gonna be a little bit different. But you can kind of have that as a little hacked control how far you hit your wedges, and that way, Shane, you get to you get to that environment where maybe you got one twenty and you but you can't go long, Like you're dead if you go long. But the same time, you got a wedge in your hand, let's try to make a birdie. I mean that is a great scenario. I think the best wedge players and we're talking about looking at stats from the tour players. I mean, we've done really cool analysis that you know, Victor's a little bit like this when he gets on he's very aggressive. We saw him do this last year at the end of the playoffs. Yep back pins. He got very aggressive to those and he had the ability to control that distance. We've seen this from the likes of Justin Thomas, very aggressive wedge player. Maybe one out of ten shots he will short sight himself, but he can lean on short game to get that ball up and down. But you don't, you know, I think in order to get better at the game, it's okay to kind of have some skills in there with your wedges where you can get more aggressive, you know, and and get that ball close to the whole if you can control the spin in the trajectory.

Yeah, Marty, I remember, and you'll remember this moment. But it was two thousand. Tiger ran down gogle, remember at Pebble Beach and he was on that lone of winds. And I remember I had an instructor in Shreveport, Louisiana that i'd go see, you know, once in a month or something. I was playing junior golf and trying to play a jaga stuff like that.

Yeah, Marty, I remember, and you'll remember this moment. But it was two thousand. Tiger ran down gogle, remember at Pebble Beach and he was on that lone of winds. And I remember I had an instructor in Shreveport, Louisiana that i'd go see, you know, once in a month or something. I was playing junior golf and trying to play a jaga stuff like that.

Tiger hold that wedge.

Tiger hold that wedge.

Oh, and I remember I hit pitching wedge from I think it was one hundred and eight yards. It was a back a location and he hold the wedge. I remember I went to Peter the next week and said, how do you hit that shot?

Oh, and I remember I hit pitching wedge from I think it was one hundred and eight yards. It was a back a location and he hold the wedge. I remember I went to Peter the next week and said, how do you hit that shot?

Yeah?

Yeah?

And so much Marty of what he told me at that time, you know, twenty four years ago, is a lot of what you said. It was weight on the front foot, it was narrow in the stands. It wasn't you know, turning as much. It was kind of like allowing the arms to do a lot of the work because you are taking distance off, but you're also taking spin off. And that was obviously a shot. Tiger was very comfortable hitting, and he knew that if you went full boar at a sandwich from one o eight, the likelihood that thing ripping all the way off those pebble beach greens was going to happen. So it's just so interesting that some of those is a characteristics still kind of play. So now we talked about controlling the spin for the you know, the high speed, low handicap player. What about the players that come to you and say I want to spin the golf ball more.

And so much Marty of what he told me at that time, you know, twenty four years ago, is a lot of what you said. It was weight on the front foot, it was narrow in the stands. It wasn't you know, turning as much. It was kind of like allowing the arms to do a lot of the work because you are taking distance off, but you're also taking spin off. And that was obviously a shot. Tiger was very comfortable hitting, and he knew that if you went full boar at a sandwich from one o eight, the likelihood that thing ripping all the way off those pebble beach greens was going to happen. So it's just so interesting that some of those is a characteristics still kind of play. So now we talked about controlling the spin for the you know, the high speed, low handicap player. What about the players that come to you and say I want to spin the golf ball more.

Yes, So there's a couple ingredients here. Let's go back to those fundamentals speed. So you know, it's okay to kind of swing full, to spin your wedges. For the every day player. You don't want to overswing, you want to swing within control and things that nature on your wedges, but don't be afraid to take a full swing at it your equipment side. So we need you know, high performance wedges, all the friction technology that we have in ours one fifty nine. You need to be playing a golf ball that gives you the potential to spin the ball. I think that's one big thing that the high handicap player is not playing a golf ball that spins a lot. We have Balnamic and we can help out get you in a golf ball that spins a lot around the greens. We actually have that as a question in Balnamic, Right, do you want to spin your wedges with your full shots green side shots. We can help recommend a golf ball club combination that it gives you potential for generating a lot of friction. Then a big thing is being able to uh get a little more dynamic uh shaftling. So right again we talked about that.

Yes, So there's a couple ingredients here. Let's go back to those fundamentals speed. So you know, it's okay to kind of swing full, to spin your wedges. For the every day player. You don't want to overswing, you want to swing within control and things that nature on your wedges, but don't be afraid to take a full swing at it your equipment side. So we need you know, high performance wedges, all the friction technology that we have in ours one fifty nine. You need to be playing a golf ball that gives you the potential to spin the ball. I think that's one big thing that the high handicap player is not playing a golf ball that spins a lot. We have Balnamic and we can help out get you in a golf ball that spins a lot around the greens. We actually have that as a question in Balnamic, Right, do you want to spin your wedges with your full shots green side shots. We can help recommend a golf ball club combination that it gives you potential for generating a lot of friction. Then a big thing is being able to uh get a little more dynamic uh shaftling. So right again we talked about that.

So that's your your hands are in front of your your basically hands are well in front of and theory well in front of impact.

So that's your your hands are in front of your your basically hands are well in front of and theory well in front of impact.

Yes, you want your hands leaning that shafter being in front of it at impact, Shane. So there's a lot of high handicap golfers out there that set up maybe a little weaker grip and the hands on there on when they set up to a wedge, the handle is back, it's like pointed at their belly button. Right then you see the really good wedge players have the hands a little bit forward and the even at address. That would be my advice for the high handicap golfer. Don't be afraid to have, you know, have your hands forward, pressed so to speak, a little bit and experiment with that. Go one inch more, go two inch more, go three inches more. Watch that launch window come down and your spin should increase right along with it. What you're doing there, from a physics standpoint, is getting more into the sweet spot of that spin loft. So don't be afraid to swing full. Get the right equipment. You gotta have wedges that give you the potential for friction high spin. You want to play a golf ball that has that potential, and then get a little more shaft lean and that's going to help you get more in that optimal window to be able to generate some spin with your full swing on your wedges. Obviously, you got to make clean contacts. That's a skill you gotta work on. That's a skill you gotta work on, and and and and try to perfect. Is you want to put a little bite on your wedges out there?

Yes, you want your hands leaning that shafter being in front of it at impact, Shane. So there's a lot of high handicap golfers out there that set up maybe a little weaker grip and the hands on there on when they set up to a wedge, the handle is back, it's like pointed at their belly button. Right then you see the really good wedge players have the hands a little bit forward and the even at address. That would be my advice for the high handicap golfer. Don't be afraid to have, you know, have your hands forward, pressed so to speak, a little bit and experiment with that. Go one inch more, go two inch more, go three inches more. Watch that launch window come down and your spin should increase right along with it. What you're doing there, from a physics standpoint, is getting more into the sweet spot of that spin loft. So don't be afraid to swing full. Get the right equipment. You gotta have wedges that give you the potential for friction high spin. You want to play a golf ball that has that potential, and then get a little more shaft lean and that's going to help you get more in that optimal window to be able to generate some spin with your full swing on your wedges. Obviously, you got to make clean contacts. That's a skill you gotta work on. That's a skill you gotta work on, and and and and try to perfect. Is you want to put a little bite on your wedges out there?

Is there a part of the club you should be hitting, like lower on the face of a wedge, middle of the face, sweet spot, Like is there a part of the golf club that creates more spin for players?

Is there a part of the club you should be hitting, like lower on the face of a wedge, middle of the face, sweet spot, Like is there a part of the golf club that creates more spin for players?

Yeah? Oh, that's a fun topic because this is a very hot topic in the teaching and coaching world. Okay, yeah, maybe four or five six years ago, still is today. But you know, we got a lot of times we get asked these questions from the teachers. Let's go to ping and and and they'll have the answers, and so this is a really fun one, Shane. Everyone kind of thought, and some other companies are talking about, oh, I'm going to have high cg wedges and things of this nature because we all rightly, so we know that when we hit low on the face on our driver three would we get that low launch, high spin, ballooning shot, right, So it seems very logical to think that in wedges you'd want to do the same thing. Let me hit low on the face, because when I do that on a driver launches low with high spin. That's what I'm trying to do on my wedges, same thing will happen.

Yeah? Oh, that's a fun topic because this is a very hot topic in the teaching and coaching world. Okay, yeah, maybe four or five six years ago, still is today. But you know, we got a lot of times we get asked these questions from the teachers. Let's go to ping and and and they'll have the answers, and so this is a really fun one, Shane. Everyone kind of thought, and some other companies are talking about, oh, I'm going to have high cg wedges and things of this nature because we all rightly, so we know that when we hit low on the face on our driver three would we get that low launch, high spin, ballooning shot, right, So it seems very logical to think that in wedges you'd want to do the same thing. Let me hit low on the face, because when I do that on a driver launches low with high spin. That's what I'm trying to do on my wedges, same thing will happen.

Right.

Right.

This is very interesting and very nuanced. Here is that actually we do see and it is correct that when you hit low on the face that's generally correlated with higher spin. Right. So the question is why does that happen. Is it from the same causal reason that you get this gear effect on a driver and that somehow again we're going back to what we first started with in part, a bigger tangential force to get the ball spin. And the answer is no, it's not from the gear effect. But when golfers hit the ball lower on the face with their wedges, you get less debris, You get less matter, less water, less dirt that gets picked up in the incher. Two of you coming in to hit the golf ball. Let's say you're hitting the ball off the ground or even a nice clean lie, You're going to pick up little grass clippings, little pieces of moisture, debris, dust, dirt are going to get between the ball and the club face. The lower you can hit the ball in the face, it means the less of that debris you're picking up. The higher you're coefficient of friction, the more potential you have to spin the golf ball. So it is true that we generally see a correlation. The best teachers are kind of teaching it, the best players are kind of practicing. Hitting the ball lower on the face gives you potential for more spin. The reason is not from the gear effect like a driver would. The reason is actually because you're getting better friction and having less debris and matter between the ball and the club face. Now, that's a very hard thing for the high to tell the high handicapper to go do oh, just kind of thin and pick your wedges.

This is very interesting and very nuanced. Here is that actually we do see and it is correct that when you hit low on the face that's generally correlated with higher spin. Right. So the question is why does that happen. Is it from the same causal reason that you get this gear effect on a driver and that somehow again we're going back to what we first started with in part, a bigger tangential force to get the ball spin. And the answer is no, it's not from the gear effect. But when golfers hit the ball lower on the face with their wedges, you get less debris, You get less matter, less water, less dirt that gets picked up in the incher. Two of you coming in to hit the golf ball. Let's say you're hitting the ball off the ground or even a nice clean lie, You're going to pick up little grass clippings, little pieces of moisture, debris, dust, dirt are going to get between the ball and the club face. The lower you can hit the ball in the face, it means the less of that debris you're picking up. The higher you're coefficient of friction, the more potential you have to spin the golf ball. So it is true that we generally see a correlation. The best teachers are kind of teaching it, the best players are kind of practicing. Hitting the ball lower on the face gives you potential for more spin. The reason is not from the gear effect like a driver would. The reason is actually because you're getting better friction and having less debris and matter between the ball and the club face. Now, that's a very hard thing for the high to tell the high handicapper to go do oh, just kind of thin and pick your wedges.

Fine, yeah, yeah, you'll love it. You're gonna love that feeling.

Fine, yeah, yeah, you'll love it. You're gonna love that feeling.

Just pick them, you know, like Tiger. But but if you do want to work on that, if you are a pretty if you are kind of skilled golfer and you are in that scenario where you do make pretty good contact with your pitches and chips and you're looking to figure out how to spin it more, yes, indeed, try to kind of hit the ball lower on the face, even at the risk of when you're practicing, maybe thinning one now and again, and that will give you potential for generating more spin absolutely.

Just pick them, you know, like Tiger. But but if you do want to work on that, if you are a pretty if you are kind of skilled golfer and you are in that scenario where you do make pretty good contact with your pitches and chips and you're looking to figure out how to spin it more, yes, indeed, try to kind of hit the ball lower on the face, even at the risk of when you're practicing, maybe thinning one now and again, and that will give you potential for generating more spin absolutely.

All right, So let's move around the golf course because we're talking about spin, and obviously with spin, friction is obviously an important part of this. Let's move around the golf course. What happens? Why is it if I hit it in the rough, you're getting jumpers, the ball's not spinning as much. What causes that? And how do you you yourself, Marty and what and you kind of dive into this stuff. What do you see as is a way to fix it, a way to play through it?

All right, So let's move around the golf course because we're talking about spin, and obviously with spin, friction is obviously an important part of this. Let's move around the golf course. What happens? Why is it if I hit it in the rough, you're getting jumpers, the ball's not spinning as much. What causes that? And how do you you yourself, Marty and what and you kind of dive into this stuff. What do you see as is a way to fix it, a way to play through it?

Yeah, so I think the question when you hit it in the rough is the fear of the flyer, you know? And this is interesting one, Shane, it's it's and I talked about, you know, spin being very nuanced in these rules. Kind of it's hard to apply to general rule to all scenarios. So I'll give a couple of case studies here, a couple examples. The old timers, they always used to say the eight iron gave you the biggest flyer. In the modern day golfer tour player, they'll say the nine iron might give you the biggest flyer. Maybe the pitching wedge, right, Well, the reason why is because today's nine iron pitching wedge has the loft of yesterday's eight iron. Yeah, so they actually talk about the same kind of loft scenario. But the place in the bag where you get a really big jumper flyer where the spin is reduced, the ball launches high low spin, especially in the Bermuda like like lighter Bermuda scenarios where you get a super fly is around that pitching wedge or nine iron, And that's because you're gonna get a lot You're gonna get grass between the ball and the face before you hit.

Yeah, so I think the question when you hit it in the rough is the fear of the flyer, you know? And this is interesting one, Shane, it's it's and I talked about, you know, spin being very nuanced in these rules. Kind of it's hard to apply to general rule to all scenarios. So I'll give a couple of case studies here, a couple examples. The old timers, they always used to say the eight iron gave you the biggest flyer. In the modern day golfer tour player, they'll say the nine iron might give you the biggest flyer. Maybe the pitching wedge, right, Well, the reason why is because today's nine iron pitching wedge has the loft of yesterday's eight iron. Yeah, so they actually talk about the same kind of loft scenario. But the place in the bag where you get a really big jumper flyer where the spin is reduced, the ball launches high low spin, especially in the Bermuda like like lighter Bermuda scenarios where you get a super fly is around that pitching wedge or nine iron, And that's because you're gonna get a lot You're gonna get grass between the ball and the face before you hit.

The golf ball.

The golf ball.

Okay, So that grass gets and it has a little moisture to it as well, so it's a grass water combination is getting between the ball in the club face. And if you know, we're doing everything we can in the design of our grooves and our finishes to get that to get that out of the way and get better compliance between the ball and the face to reduce your flyer. Now, you can't always get one hundred percent of that out of there, depending on the lines and the conditions, So depend on your golf ball, depend on the type of lie, depend on how you deliver it. That's going to give you a higher launch, lower spin it's where that tangential force that generates the backspin actually gets reduced and more of the It changes the force vector acting on the ball to be more up and that's why you launch it high.

Okay, So that grass gets and it has a little moisture to it as well, so it's a grass water combination is getting between the ball in the club face. And if you know, we're doing everything we can in the design of our grooves and our finishes to get that to get that out of the way and get better compliance between the ball and the face to reduce your flyer. Now, you can't always get one hundred percent of that out of there, depending on the lines and the conditions, So depend on your golf ball, depend on the type of lie, depend on how you deliver it. That's going to give you a higher launch, lower spin it's where that tangential force that generates the backspin actually gets reduced and more of the It changes the force vector acting on the ball to be more up and that's why you launch it high.

Okay.

Okay.

So anytime there's a reduction backspin, almost always for clubs above like a seven iron, it'll be correlated with increased launch. So you get that high launch, low spin and when you get it with the pitching wedge of nine iron can be very dangerous, right, So that's one thing to be aware of of where that big flyer comes from. Now, what I do to kind of negate that Shane is I will a it's a course, it's a strategy thing. So if you're in a nine iron pitching wedge scenario, you got water penalty, something long, you gotta be careful. So you gotta kind of know, Okay, I'm gonna hedge it in this scenario, head to my bets on coming up short. I will quite often open the face on the nine iron or the wedge a lot so I can add more loft to it. Don't be afraid to steal swing hard club down in those scenarios and be aware of what's gonna happen. I usually stand closer open the face, make sure I deliver the face very open to the path, and try to keep a plenty of a kind of spin loft on that particular golf shot. Right now. There's other scenario, Shane, where if you have a lie in the rough, and maybe it's a four iron or a five iron, that's a scenario where it's actually on the other side of what's called spin loft mountain. And that's a scenario where the timing of the forces that impact are such that you can actually get an increase in spin, lower launch, and an increase in spin on those clubs. So you'll think a lot of golfers are like, oh, there's a flyer lie with my five iron here. They'll hit a shot, it'll launch kind of low, you know, kind of balloon a little bit and come up short, and they're like, I thought that was a flyer. Well, actually it was. It was a flyer that manifests itself in lower launch and increase in spin based on where it was and kind of the friction impact physics part of the of the curve here. So those are some general things that can happen. I think a good rule of thumb. For the everyday golfer, seven iron and above, you're gonna get a lower spin, and the biggest impact that could have for you is generally around nine iron or pitching wedge seven iron in below you're gonna get You're gonna your flyer a lot of times can respond in a way that can increase your spin. It gets a little more nuanced to that, even Shane, because your golf ball needs to travel through grass as it gets out into the air. So it's very depending on the type of rough.

So anytime there's a reduction backspin, almost always for clubs above like a seven iron, it'll be correlated with increased launch. So you get that high launch, low spin and when you get it with the pitching wedge of nine iron can be very dangerous, right, So that's one thing to be aware of of where that big flyer comes from. Now, what I do to kind of negate that Shane is I will a it's a course, it's a strategy thing. So if you're in a nine iron pitching wedge scenario, you got water penalty, something long, you gotta be careful. So you gotta kind of know, Okay, I'm gonna hedge it in this scenario, head to my bets on coming up short. I will quite often open the face on the nine iron or the wedge a lot so I can add more loft to it. Don't be afraid to steal swing hard club down in those scenarios and be aware of what's gonna happen. I usually stand closer open the face, make sure I deliver the face very open to the path, and try to keep a plenty of a kind of spin loft on that particular golf shot. Right now. There's other scenario, Shane, where if you have a lie in the rough, and maybe it's a four iron or a five iron, that's a scenario where it's actually on the other side of what's called spin loft mountain. And that's a scenario where the timing of the forces that impact are such that you can actually get an increase in spin, lower launch, and an increase in spin on those clubs. So you'll think a lot of golfers are like, oh, there's a flyer lie with my five iron here. They'll hit a shot, it'll launch kind of low, you know, kind of balloon a little bit and come up short, and they're like, I thought that was a flyer. Well, actually it was. It was a flyer that manifests itself in lower launch and increase in spin based on where it was and kind of the friction impact physics part of the of the curve here. So those are some general things that can happen. I think a good rule of thumb. For the everyday golfer, seven iron and above, you're gonna get a lower spin, and the biggest impact that could have for you is generally around nine iron or pitching wedge seven iron in below you're gonna get You're gonna your flyer a lot of times can respond in a way that can increase your spin. It gets a little more nuanced to that, even Shane, because your golf ball needs to travel through grass as it gets out into the air. So it's very depending on the type of rough.

All right, So here's a question for you, because we're talking about rough and we're talking about contact, and a lot of the time you're in rough and you're just trying to kind of maybe get the ball out. You're trying to get the ball back and play, trying to get the ball around the green. You mentioned, you know, you've got a backpin or you've got a flyer, and there's trouble long you're basically okay with the fact that the ball's gonna come up short.

All right, So here's a question for you, because we're talking about rough and we're talking about contact, and a lot of the time you're in rough and you're just trying to kind of maybe get the ball out. You're trying to get the ball back and play, trying to get the ball around the green. You mentioned, you know, you've got a backpin or you've got a flyer, and there's trouble long you're basically okay with the fact that the ball's gonna come up short.

One thing I do see a lot.

One thing I do see a lot.

Of the the everyday golfer due that I'm not I don't quite understand why it happens, but I see It happen a lot is they'll be in trouble, There'll be trees, branches, stuff in front of them, They'll be in rough, and a lot of the time they'll hit it and it'll hit the branch up in front of them.

Of the the everyday golfer due that I'm not I don't quite understand why it happens, but I see It happen a lot is they'll be in trouble, There'll be trees, branches, stuff in front of them, They'll be in rough, and a lot of the time they'll hit it and it'll hit the branch up in front of them.

Yep.

Yep.

Why why is it that the ball's kind.

Why why is it that the ball's kind.

Of sent up even with maybe a six iron, seven iron something like that. And how can a everyday average player combat that when they are in trouble, they are out of position, they are in rough, trying to get the ball under something. How do they combat that ball kind of flipping up into the sky and hitting the trouble that they're trying to avoid.

Of sent up even with maybe a six iron, seven iron something like that. And how can a everyday average player combat that when they are in trouble, they are out of position, they are in rough, trying to get the ball under something. How do they combat that ball kind of flipping up into the sky and hitting the trouble that they're trying to avoid.

Yeah, Shane, I mean not only this is that's not a problem and only for the every day golfer. I mean I think the tire you do it all the time. You're like, oh man, that's.

Yeah, Shane, I mean not only this is that's not a problem and only for the every day golfer. I mean I think the tire you do it all the time. You're like, oh man, that's.

Marty.

Marty.

Last year, I was playing a qualifier in Connecticut First Hills, a par five out of bounds literally both sides, like five yards off the fairway, and it was maybe five to eighty and it was kind of cold. I'm like, all right, listen, I'm not hitting driver here. I'm gonna hit like I'm gonna crossover in the fairway. I'm gonna basically play for the layup. I pulled the layup a little bit right, and you know the branches that you don't even see in your train when you're when you're you're, you're, you're taking a couple of practice wings.

Last year, I was playing a qualifier in Connecticut First Hills, a par five out of bounds literally both sides, like five yards off the fairway, and it was maybe five to eighty and it was kind of cold. I'm like, all right, listen, I'm not hitting driver here. I'm gonna hit like I'm gonna crossover in the fairway. I'm gonna basically play for the layup. I pulled the layup a little bit right, and you know the branches that you don't even see in your train when you're when you're you're, you're, you're taking a couple of practice wings.

I've done this.

I've done this.

Oh, ball crawls.

Oh, ball crawls.

The face of the wedge hits the branch right in front of me, and I'm sitting there going, well, I guess I'm making six to open the golf.

The face of the wedge hits the branch right in front of me, and I'm sitting there going, well, I guess I'm making six to open the golf.

Yeah, I mean it happens to us all the time.

Yeah, I mean it happens to us all the time.

I've done it. There's a hole it of course I play. It's a par three. If you miss it over to the right, there's a tree, branches and you'll you'll have you be like, I'm just gonna pitch it on with my lob weedge, not a problem. And if but if you launch it at like fifty degrees, you're gonna hit this tree. It's usually, oh, there's no big deal. Hit this pitch shot. You can feel it. You can feel getting back to why this happens, grasp between the ball and the face, and what happens in that scenario is the ball has no stick. So when the ball impacts the face what you want it to do, and what feels really good is the golfer is that the ball sticks on the face. Okay, right, So the ball's either slipping so it's slipping up the face. So if you had no friction and loft on the club, the ball would slip all the way up right and it would launch very very high with very little spin. If you had maximum friction, tons of friction spikes on the face right, the ball would stick instantly. And the ball is kind of viscous a little bit, it's kind of wobbling on the face, but that would that would take on more of the of the angle of attack of the club, less of the loft, so it launched lower and once that ball left the face out tons of spins. Those are the two extremes. So what you're feeling in those scenarios when you're trying to pitch the ball out of the trees, keep it under stuff and void embarrassment for us better players is you don't want that ball slipping up the face. And that's what's happening. Grass is getting between there the balls slipping up the face and just launching super high with very little spin. So Yeah, it's it's it's it's practicing, it's shaffling, it's it's the right club selection, uh, to be able to practice those scenarios. This is this is where actually you're having your punch out game is a legitimate skill.

I've done it. There's a hole it of course I play. It's a par three. If you miss it over to the right, there's a tree, branches and you'll you'll have you be like, I'm just gonna pitch it on with my lob weedge, not a problem. And if but if you launch it at like fifty degrees, you're gonna hit this tree. It's usually, oh, there's no big deal. Hit this pitch shot. You can feel it. You can feel getting back to why this happens, grasp between the ball and the face, and what happens in that scenario is the ball has no stick. So when the ball impacts the face what you want it to do, and what feels really good is the golfer is that the ball sticks on the face. Okay, right, So the ball's either slipping so it's slipping up the face. So if you had no friction and loft on the club, the ball would slip all the way up right and it would launch very very high with very little spin. If you had maximum friction, tons of friction spikes on the face right, the ball would stick instantly. And the ball is kind of viscous a little bit, it's kind of wobbling on the face, but that would that would take on more of the of the angle of attack of the club, less of the loft, so it launched lower and once that ball left the face out tons of spins. Those are the two extremes. So what you're feeling in those scenarios when you're trying to pitch the ball out of the trees, keep it under stuff and void embarrassment for us better players is you don't want that ball slipping up the face. And that's what's happening. Grass is getting between there the balls slipping up the face and just launching super high with very little spin. So Yeah, it's it's it's it's practicing, it's shaffling, it's it's the right club selection, uh, to be able to practice those scenarios. This is this is where actually you're having your punch out game is a legitimate skill.

Shout out, Shout out a man that is retired from the game. Shout out, my goodness. Okay, so we talked rough in terms of spin and friction. I want to go to bunker play because we watch professional golf on a weekly basis on TV. These dudes, I think the most impressive part of pro golf, in my opinion, is how good they are out of bunkers. And we hear announcer state it all the time. They'd rather be in a bunker than in the rough. But these pro players will hit the shots that'll hit and just stop. They'll hit the bunker shots that hit.

Shout out, Shout out a man that is retired from the game. Shout out, my goodness. Okay, so we talked rough in terms of spin and friction. I want to go to bunker play because we watch professional golf on a weekly basis on TV. These dudes, I think the most impressive part of pro golf, in my opinion, is how good they are out of bunkers. And we hear announcer state it all the time. They'd rather be in a bunker than in the rough. But these pro players will hit the shots that'll hit and just stop. They'll hit the bunker shots that hit.

And rip back.

And rip back.

They'll hit all sorts of different shots. How are they creating that amount of spin in a short sided scenario out of a greenside bunker? And how can players that maybe strug out of the bunkers or just trying to create spin out of bunkers, how can they mimic?

They'll hit all sorts of different shots. How are they creating that amount of spin in a short sided scenario out of a greenside bunker? And how can players that maybe strug out of the bunkers or just trying to create spin out of bunkers, how can they mimic?

At best?

At best?

They can what a pro can do out of the bunkers to create that level of spin in friction.

They can what a pro can do out of the bunkers to create that level of spin in friction.

Yeah, that's a great another fun to think about. So let's kind of think about this theoretically, is like, what is happening there when you hit a bunker shot? Is the club actually hitting the ball or not? Right?

Yeah, that's a great another fun to think about. So let's kind of think about this theoretically, is like, what is happening there when you hit a bunker shot? Is the club actually hitting the ball or not? Right?

I mean most of the time no, right, yeah, slapper, they'll say it.

I mean most of the time no, right, yeah, slapper, they'll say it.

Yeah, yeah, So what is the golf ball scene and what forces are acting on the golf ball?

Yeah, yeah, So what is the golf ball scene and what forces are acting on the golf ball?

Right?

Right?

So the tour player week in and week out, they're playing in very good bunker conditions, nice pretty fine sand, generally pretty firm, not to powdery unless it's a very penalizing course or with jack doesn't memorial or something like that. Right, They're playing in bunker conditions where you got nice sand that if you if you have the right technique. And again we'll talk about a lot of speed. Actually the sand is what's acting on the golf ball, and that sand has a has a level of abrasiveness that can generate a lot take a lot of the the force that you're that you're applying through the club traveling through the sand and acting a little bit like sand paper to be honest with you, Okay, So it's very abrasive. It's like it's like sand instead of your club face. It's a little bit like sand paper swiping across the bottom of the golf ball. Right, So with the right technique, which is getting the amount the face is open, controlling your low point, your attack going through there combined Shane, I'll go back to this again. A lot of club eddspeed the tour players many do. They're almost swinging maximum on a lot of green side shots right totally the face wide open. Sometimes it's it's more than ninety degrees open literally right when they set up to it. At least not delivered to the golf ball, but they got that face filaid open their swing, their swing speeds very high. They're hitting relatively close to the golf ball, closer than the average every day player be comfortable with. And then effectively in good bunker conditions, it's like they're hitting the golf ball with sandpaper, right, And that abrasive interaction is what's taking putting a big tangential force. That force is going to create a lot of spin on the golf ball. So the everyday player to do that, you got to get comfortable opening the face. You got to get comfortable hitting a little closer to the golf ball, and you've got to get comfortable swinging hard. Right, So those three in radients are kind of fun to experiment with if that's something you're interested in putting a little sizzle out of the bunker.

So the tour player week in and week out, they're playing in very good bunker conditions, nice pretty fine sand, generally pretty firm, not to powdery unless it's a very penalizing course or with jack doesn't memorial or something like that. Right, They're playing in bunker conditions where you got nice sand that if you if you have the right technique. And again we'll talk about a lot of speed. Actually the sand is what's acting on the golf ball, and that sand has a has a level of abrasiveness that can generate a lot take a lot of the the force that you're that you're applying through the club traveling through the sand and acting a little bit like sand paper to be honest with you, Okay, So it's very abrasive. It's like it's like sand instead of your club face. It's a little bit like sand paper swiping across the bottom of the golf ball. Right, So with the right technique, which is getting the amount the face is open, controlling your low point, your attack going through there combined Shane, I'll go back to this again. A lot of club eddspeed the tour players many do. They're almost swinging maximum on a lot of green side shots right totally the face wide open. Sometimes it's it's more than ninety degrees open literally right when they set up to it. At least not delivered to the golf ball, but they got that face filaid open their swing, their swing speeds very high. They're hitting relatively close to the golf ball, closer than the average every day player be comfortable with. And then effectively in good bunker conditions, it's like they're hitting the golf ball with sandpaper, right, And that abrasive interaction is what's taking putting a big tangential force. That force is going to create a lot of spin on the golf ball. So the everyday player to do that, you got to get comfortable opening the face. You got to get comfortable hitting a little closer to the golf ball, and you've got to get comfortable swinging hard. Right, So those three in radients are kind of fun to experiment with if that's something you're interested in putting a little sizzle out of the bunker.

Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. You mentioned, you know, the face being open. I mean, I open mind to your point. I mean, I've got it as open as it can be when I get into those bunkers. I'm sure the exact same way. It's like just what you have to do to create what you're trying to accomplish, right, Yeah, And so often I see players, you know, ten twelve, fifteen hindiccap players getting to a bunker. Their stance is very square, like set up like a full golf shot. I mean it's it's barely opened, if at all, the face is barely open, very very square. And I will, and I'm not I'm not very good at explaining like instruction to players. I try at times, but it's not something I find myself being very good at or accomplishing well. But you know, I will try to talk people like keep open in the face and they'll open it like two degrees.

Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. You mentioned, you know, the face being open. I mean, I open mind to your point. I mean, I've got it as open as it can be when I get into those bunkers. I'm sure the exact same way. It's like just what you have to do to create what you're trying to accomplish, right, Yeah, And so often I see players, you know, ten twelve, fifteen hindiccap players getting to a bunker. Their stance is very square, like set up like a full golf shot. I mean it's it's barely opened, if at all, the face is barely open, very very square. And I will, and I'm not I'm not very good at explaining like instruction to players. I try at times, but it's not something I find myself being very good at or accomplishing well. But you know, I will try to talk people like keep open in the face and they'll open it like two degrees.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, keep opening in that thing to a point where you think you're not going to hit the golf ball, you know what I mean. That's where we're starting from. One thing I did want to ask about in terms of the spin and technique right now is I do feel like there was a time where every pro like if the if the whole locations at twelve o'clock on a clock, their feet are shot at let's say two thirty and they're kind of cutting across it and creating that level of spin. It feels like they've changed and moved away from that. It's a little more square for the players.

I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, keep opening in that thing to a point where you think you're not going to hit the golf ball, you know what I mean. That's where we're starting from. One thing I did want to ask about in terms of the spin and technique right now is I do feel like there was a time where every pro like if the if the whole locations at twelve o'clock on a clock, their feet are shot at let's say two thirty and they're kind of cutting across it and creating that level of spin. It feels like they've changed and moved away from that. It's a little more square for the players.

Why is that?

Why is that?

I Yeah, no, Shane, I kind of agree with that. I think the classic old bunker technique was like, am pretty good, laughed, open the face, swipe across it. There you go. I think there's been a lot of instructors that have been able to inform players kind of angle of attack, their vertical vertical swing plane, and have some ingredients for different type of short game shots, including you see some tour players stand a little bit closed, right, they'll.

I Yeah, no, Shane, I kind of agree with that. I think the classic old bunker technique was like, am pretty good, laughed, open the face, swipe across it. There you go. I think there's been a lot of instructors that have been able to inform players kind of angle of attack, their vertical vertical swing plane, and have some ingredients for different type of short game shots, including you see some tour players stand a little bit closed, right, they'll.

Stay to see that.

Stay to see that.

Yes, it is really crazy. But there's I think now more than ever, there's a bigger variety in bunker techniques. Okay, I think there's a bigger variety of bunker techniques. I think some the study of of of Sevy by Asteros Out of the Bunker, I think was a big part of this and kind of informed some of the top teachers, and then and then as they started working on this, I think they found that there you can the ingredients for good bunker players are are more broad than other skills in the game. Right, There's different ways you can get that that the club use the club loft, use the angle of attack, uh, marry that with the type of bunkers, in the type of sands you're playing with, and have just more options for different type of shots around the green, some of which give you a bigger margin of error. Right. And I think that's the beauty of bunker play is that I think if you can dial in your technique, you actually because you're not actually hitting the ball, it's the one place unless you're hitting the ball out of the water, uh, that you're not actually you don't actually have to hit the golf ball. You actually can have a very decent margin margin vair. Right, you have those bunker shots, Shane. We had one in our match where I had a shot on the eleventh hole there that is at Astancia, and I could have chunk and runned it and just pretended like I meant to do it. I could offend it would have flew to the hole and spun and it would have made me look good. Right. So I think a good bunker technique gives you a lot of margin prayer, and I think that's what the coaches and players are finding with some of those techniques where you don't need to stand thirty degrees open with the face so much open and cut across it anymore.

Yes, it is really crazy. But there's I think now more than ever, there's a bigger variety in bunker techniques. Okay, I think there's a bigger variety of bunker techniques. I think some the study of of of Sevy by Asteros Out of the Bunker, I think was a big part of this and kind of informed some of the top teachers, and then and then as they started working on this, I think they found that there you can the ingredients for good bunker players are are more broad than other skills in the game. Right, There's different ways you can get that that the club use the club loft, use the angle of attack, uh, marry that with the type of bunkers, in the type of sands you're playing with, and have just more options for different type of shots around the green, some of which give you a bigger margin of error. Right. And I think that's the beauty of bunker play is that I think if you can dial in your technique, you actually because you're not actually hitting the ball, it's the one place unless you're hitting the ball out of the water, uh, that you're not actually you don't actually have to hit the golf ball. You actually can have a very decent margin margin vair. Right, you have those bunker shots, Shane. We had one in our match where I had a shot on the eleventh hole there that is at Astancia, and I could have chunk and runned it and just pretended like I meant to do it. I could offend it would have flew to the hole and spun and it would have made me look good. Right. So I think a good bunker technique gives you a lot of margin prayer, and I think that's what the coaches and players are finding with some of those techniques where you don't need to stand thirty degrees open with the face so much open and cut across it anymore.

What's the biggest enemy to spin? I know you've done so many studies on this. Is it grass on the face? Is it water on the face? Is it sand?

What's the biggest enemy to spin? I know you've done so many studies on this. Is it grass on the face? Is it water on the face? Is it sand?

Like?

Like?

What's the biggest enemy for golfers when they're just simply trying to spin the golf ball?

What's the biggest enemy for golfers when they're just simply trying to spin the golf ball?

Yeah, it's it generally would be grass between the ball and the club face. Because we've we've done some We just did a recent study my colleague doctor Paul Wood. It kind of was kicked off with with Joe Mayo and Victor Hovelin and just think just understanding how much does the golfer impact the ground even you know, on pitch shots, right in eighty five percent of pitch shots have some level across the sweep of all skill levels, the club is interacting with the ground, the grass of the debris before you hit the ball. Even if you you hit it low on the face, it gets that clippy sound, or you have high spin to some degree, you've got some grass between the golf golf on the club face. So so that is that's the main one from you know, things you can't control, and then things you can, Shane is is your golf ball selection and your wedge selection, right those are going to give you the potential to generate a lot of spin. Always clean your grooves too, Like I even get lazy with that a little bit.

Yeah, it's it generally would be grass between the ball and the club face. Because we've we've done some We just did a recent study my colleague doctor Paul Wood. It kind of was kicked off with with Joe Mayo and Victor Hovelin and just think just understanding how much does the golfer impact the ground even you know, on pitch shots, right in eighty five percent of pitch shots have some level across the sweep of all skill levels, the club is interacting with the ground, the grass of the debris before you hit the ball. Even if you you hit it low on the face, it gets that clippy sound, or you have high spin to some degree, you've got some grass between the golf golf on the club face. So so that is that's the main one from you know, things you can't control, and then things you can, Shane is is your golf ball selection and your wedge selection, right those are going to give you the potential to generate a lot of spin. Always clean your grooves too, Like I even get lazy with that a little bit.

I mean, like like Marty, if you watch the tour players videos now on you on like Instagram and stuff like that, they all now have the belt clip with the brush, They've all got the alignment stick stuck in the ground and they're practice and batal And I mean if you ever have a track man or foresight or anything like that and you're hitting golf shots in front of.