It's the Perry and Shawna podcast on the real life journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved child and that Jesus has called you into his massive mission to heal the world.

It's the Perry and Shawna podcast on the real life journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved child and that Jesus has called you into his massive mission to heal the world.

What are you clinging to? When my kids were little, we homeschooled them, loved that, loved every part of that. And there were many years that that was just normal. And that's how we did life. But we were prayerfully considering what was next, and we sensed that it was time to put the kids in a traditional classroom setting. So we talked to him about it. The girls were all in. Yeah. Let's go. My son, however, was like, yeah, I'm not going. You can put the girls in school if that's what you want to do. But I am not going. And he just dug his heels in. We had set up a time that the kids could go and experience the classroom just for a few hours. Not even a full day. But just like this is a little bit of what it's like to be in school, to be in a classroom. So we get there, we get the girls settled in, they're fine. There's a railing upstairs in the school, and Drayson just grabbed onto the railing and he was like, I'm not going. I am not leaving this railing. And I, you know, at this point in my life, had a few parenting techniques and a little bit of experience. I did everything I could to help encourage him off the railing and assure him that it was going to be such a great experience, but he just wasn't having it. My husband gave it a go. Nope. Wasn't budging. Just clung to that railing. I think he felt like this is security to me. This is what I know. And he just was. He just was not going to budge. Fast forward, this was going into fourth grade for him. His fourth grade year ended up being absolutely epic. We did get him off that railing. He did experience some class that day. The kids in that class became his best friends. He was doing stuff with them every day after school. He had such a hectic schedule that trying to keep track of all the places that Jason needed to be with all of his friends while he's thriving in school was the biggest challenge of the kids going into a school setting, and there was even a point that year that the teacher took the entire class on a field trip to the Grand Canyon. It was three days and I was the only mom. Well, Dan and I were the only parents that could not go on that trip because of other commitments. Andrea was like, it doesn't matter. I'm going anyway. Peace. I mean, he went from clinging onto the railing and I'm not going to. I'm heading to the Grand Canyon for a few days with my peeps. Love you, Mom and Dad. See ya.

What are you clinging to? When my kids were little, we homeschooled them, loved that, loved every part of that. And there were many years that that was just normal. And that's how we did life. But we were prayerfully considering what was next, and we sensed that it was time to put the kids in a traditional classroom setting. So we talked to him about it. The girls were all in. Yeah. Let's go. My son, however, was like, yeah, I'm not going. You can put the girls in school if that's what you want to do. But I am not going. And he just dug his heels in. We had set up a time that the kids could go and experience the classroom just for a few hours. Not even a full day. But just like this is a little bit of what it's like to be in school, to be in a classroom. So we get there, we get the girls settled in, they're fine. There's a railing upstairs in the school, and Drayson just grabbed onto the railing and he was like, I'm not going. I am not leaving this railing. And I, you know, at this point in my life, had a few parenting techniques and a little bit of experience. I did everything I could to help encourage him off the railing and assure him that it was going to be such a great experience, but he just wasn't having it. My husband gave it a go. Nope. Wasn't budging. Just clung to that railing. I think he felt like this is security to me. This is what I know. And he just was. He just was not going to budge. Fast forward, this was going into fourth grade for him. His fourth grade year ended up being absolutely epic. We did get him off that railing. He did experience some class that day. The kids in that class became his best friends. He was doing stuff with them every day after school. He had such a hectic schedule that trying to keep track of all the places that Jason needed to be with all of his friends while he's thriving in school was the biggest challenge of the kids going into a school setting, and there was even a point that year that the teacher took the entire class on a field trip to the Grand Canyon. It was three days and I was the only mom. Well, Dan and I were the only parents that could not go on that trip because of other commitments. Andrea was like, it doesn't matter. I'm going anyway. Peace. I mean, he went from clinging onto the railing and I'm not going to. I'm heading to the Grand Canyon for a few days with my peeps. Love you, Mom and Dad. See ya.

I think of my daughter Kaylee, who's a great singer, but she has really wrestled to become a great singer so early in her teens and then early 20s. You know, she just tried to control it, you know, and she was just tight. And, you know, to be a great singer, you just have to you have to have the right technique. But you can't be all tight and worried and anxious and all that stuff. Right?

I think of my daughter Kaylee, who's a great singer, but she has really wrestled to become a great singer so early in her teens and then early 20s. You know, she just tried to control it, you know, and she was just tight. And, you know, to be a great singer, you just have to you have to have the right technique. But you can't be all tight and worried and anxious and all that stuff. Right?

Yes.

Yes.

You got to just let it go.

You got to just let it go.

I was just having a conversation with with my daughter the other day. She came back from this training in Albania, and one of the things that she learned that they covered in this training was just the difference between being a in a red light thinker and a green light thinker. Are you aware of this at all? So if you know a green light thinker just thinks about all the possibilities. Really, really great at brainstorming. Like don't shut this down. No idea is a bad idea, just let it happen. And then the red light thinker is like is really good at discerning whether this is a good idea or not a good idea, but also shuts down the creative juices. What I'm hearing you say as far as Kaylee's journey was, she was super critical of what was coming out of her mouth, which was actually shutting down the creative part that needed to be expressed.

I was just having a conversation with with my daughter the other day. She came back from this training in Albania, and one of the things that she learned that they covered in this training was just the difference between being a in a red light thinker and a green light thinker. Are you aware of this at all? So if you know a green light thinker just thinks about all the possibilities. Really, really great at brainstorming. Like don't shut this down. No idea is a bad idea, just let it happen. And then the red light thinker is like is really good at discerning whether this is a good idea or not a good idea, but also shuts down the creative juices. What I'm hearing you say as far as Kaylee's journey was, she was super critical of what was coming out of her mouth, which was actually shutting down the creative part that needed to be expressed.

Yeah, I think that was a big part of it. and she was maybe 20 years old, and she was on the worship team at crossroads, and she just had a really bad morning with her voice, and she was out in the lobby and just kind of really grieving the struggle and feeling like she was never going to be able to fulfill her calling. And rod Van Sukuma, our pastor at the time he walked, he was just walking through the lobby. And, you know, he's a guy on a mission, but he points at Kaylee and he goes, your voice is anointed.

Yeah, I think that was a big part of it. and she was maybe 20 years old, and she was on the worship team at crossroads, and she just had a really bad morning with her voice, and she was out in the lobby and just kind of really grieving the struggle and feeling like she was never going to be able to fulfill her calling. And rod Van Sukuma, our pastor at the time he walked, he was just walking through the lobby. And, you know, he's a guy on a mission, but he points at Kaylee and he goes, your voice is anointed.

Come on.

Come on.

And it was the Lord. And that was a huge part of her being able to keep moving forward.

And it was the Lord. And that was a huge part of her being able to keep moving forward.

That is amazing. That is amazing. Sometimes we get stuck, sometimes we cling to the railing and God has some really beautiful things for us. If we'll just let go of what we're stuck in and trust that he's good And that his plans for us are good, and the stuff that's in front of us is better than what we are clinging to. If you're white knuckling something today because it just feels safe, will you trust that the God who loves you has got something really, really good for you? He actually says to you, in this moment, let go and cling to me. Cling to me. I'm the true vine. Cling to me, remain in me, and you're going to bear some really beautiful fruit.

That is amazing. That is amazing. Sometimes we get stuck, sometimes we cling to the railing and God has some really beautiful things for us. If we'll just let go of what we're stuck in and trust that he's good And that his plans for us are good, and the stuff that's in front of us is better than what we are clinging to. If you're white knuckling something today because it just feels safe, will you trust that the God who loves you has got something really, really good for you? He actually says to you, in this moment, let go and cling to me. Cling to me. I'm the true vine. Cling to me, remain in me, and you're going to bear some really beautiful fruit.

I don't know about you, but I get anxious thinking I have to prove to God how much I love him. We had Dan Seaborn of winning at home on the show, and we got talking about this thing, how we get anxious, thinking we have to prove to God that we love him. And Dan said to me, Perry, I don't know you real well. I don't know you real well, but what I know of you is that you love the Lord with all your heart. And I was so encouraged by that. I needed to hear that. But I also realized in that moment, and in the days following, as I've reflected on that, that I've spent a lot of my life trying to prove to God that I love him, striving and and working and God, I'm a I'm a good guy. I really do love you. And all along the Lord's not really looking for that. He does test us at times to see if our hearts really do belong to him. But it's it's it's so much more about his love for me. It's not about how much I love. It's about how much he loves me. He brought us into this world. He didn't consult us. He brought us into this world to have a relationship of love with us. And that starts with he loves me first.

I don't know about you, but I get anxious thinking I have to prove to God how much I love him. We had Dan Seaborn of winning at home on the show, and we got talking about this thing, how we get anxious, thinking we have to prove to God that we love him. And Dan said to me, Perry, I don't know you real well. I don't know you real well, but what I know of you is that you love the Lord with all your heart. And I was so encouraged by that. I needed to hear that. But I also realized in that moment, and in the days following, as I've reflected on that, that I've spent a lot of my life trying to prove to God that I love him, striving and and working and God, I'm a I'm a good guy. I really do love you. And all along the Lord's not really looking for that. He does test us at times to see if our hearts really do belong to him. But it's it's it's so much more about his love for me. It's not about how much I love. It's about how much he loves me. He brought us into this world. He didn't consult us. He brought us into this world to have a relationship of love with us. And that starts with he loves me first.

Can I throw something at you?

Can I throw something at you?

Oh, I hope it doesn't hurt.

Oh, I hope it doesn't hurt.

I don't think it will. So I wasn't here for the show with Dan Seaborn. But the fact that Dan said to you, I know you this much, period, but I know that you love the Lord with your whole heart. That was kind of Dan to say. I just think it was God speaking through Dan.

I don't think it will. So I wasn't here for the show with Dan Seaborn. But the fact that Dan said to you, I know you this much, period, but I know that you love the Lord with your whole heart. That was kind of Dan to say. I just think it was God speaking through Dan.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I felt that.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I felt that.

Yes, it was God saying to you, I know how much you love me.

Yes, it was God saying to you, I know how much you love me.

Yeah. And I know how hard you're trying to prove it, and you don't have to prove it. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And I know how hard you're trying to prove it, and you don't have to prove it. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's God's love for you. It makes me think of. We interviewed an author, and she was sharing that she lost her dad when she was quite young. I want to say she was, like, 11 or 12 years old. She lost her dad, and she just couldn't handle all the emotions of losing him. And so she just pulled away, like she just she just had to, you know, it was it was her survival tactic of losing her dad at such a young age. And she later came across a letter that he had written to her, and in the letter he said. I know how much you love me. It's interesting, right? Because you would think that in a final letter in like saying goodbye, he would say, I love you so much. But he knew what she needed to hear was not how much he loved her, but that he knew that she loved him. I feel like this kind of was God's letter to you through Dan Seaborn, to say, I know how much you love me, Barry.

Yeah. It's God's love for you. It makes me think of. We interviewed an author, and she was sharing that she lost her dad when she was quite young. I want to say she was, like, 11 or 12 years old. She lost her dad, and she just couldn't handle all the emotions of losing him. And so she just pulled away, like she just she just had to, you know, it was it was her survival tactic of losing her dad at such a young age. And she later came across a letter that he had written to her, and in the letter he said. I know how much you love me. It's interesting, right? Because you would think that in a final letter in like saying goodbye, he would say, I love you so much. But he knew what she needed to hear was not how much he loved her, but that he knew that she loved him. I feel like this kind of was God's letter to you through Dan Seaborn, to say, I know how much you love me, Barry.

Absolutely. And I'm just going to be striving less. In this last year, I've been shedding the religion that's still a part of my life.

Absolutely. And I'm just going to be striving less. In this last year, I've been shedding the religion that's still a part of my life.

Come on. I'll take some of that, shed some of that religion.

Come on. I'll take some of that, shed some of that religion.

Yeah. Religion is is about trying to prove to God that we love him, that we're a good person. And and man, it's just it's not the way of creation. It's not the order of creation.

Yeah. Religion is is about trying to prove to God that we love him, that we're a good person. And and man, it's just it's not the way of creation. It's not the order of creation.

You should write a song about shedding your religion. Losing my religion. That's what you could call it.

You should write a song about shedding your religion. Losing my religion. That's what you could call it.

I think there is a song about that. I was talking to my daughter about this yesterday, but. But we are here first and foremost to be, uh, recipients. Vessels who can receive the love of God. Because when we receive the love of God, it's just going to come out of us. So listen to this passage from first Corinthians one eight and nine. This is the Lord's word for you and me. He will keep you strong right up to the end, and he will keep you free from all blame. On that great day when our Lord Jesus returns, God will surely do this for you. For he always does just what he says. And he is the one who called you into this wonderful friendship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

I think there is a song about that. I was talking to my daughter about this yesterday, but. But we are here first and foremost to be, uh, recipients. Vessels who can receive the love of God. Because when we receive the love of God, it's just going to come out of us. So listen to this passage from first Corinthians one eight and nine. This is the Lord's word for you and me. He will keep you strong right up to the end, and he will keep you free from all blame. On that great day when our Lord Jesus returns, God will surely do this for you. For he always does just what he says. And he is the one who called you into this wonderful friendship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

I can muster up the willpower and the discipline to make myself do certain behaviors for a period of time. But man, you have a bad day and all that comes crumbling down. I'm just going to go back to what I believe about the thing rather than what I was doing. And I'm curious, Rob, when it comes to our finances, we can change our behaviors in spending, we can create a budget and we can do some behavior modification. But I'm curious, what's the upstream change that needs to happen at a heart level in our belief system that would then impact our decisions and how we spend our money moving forward?

I can muster up the willpower and the discipline to make myself do certain behaviors for a period of time. But man, you have a bad day and all that comes crumbling down. I'm just going to go back to what I believe about the thing rather than what I was doing. And I'm curious, Rob, when it comes to our finances, we can change our behaviors in spending, we can create a budget and we can do some behavior modification. But I'm curious, what's the upstream change that needs to happen at a heart level in our belief system that would then impact our decisions and how we spend our money moving forward?

Oh, it's such a good question, and I'm so glad to be with you guys today. You know, this is really the big idea when it comes to money management through the lens of Scripture. Because, you know, we talk a lot about these 2300 verses that are in God's Word related to money and possessions. And often it's just that it has a money connection, because money is just something we all interact with. And that was true in Jesus time as well. And so it was a great teaching device. But if you look at the core of these messages and really there's like 21 chapters in God's Word in the Old and New Testament that have kind of the longest, richest teachings on money given by Jesus and the apostles John and Matthew and Luke and Mark and Peter and James. And if you look at really the core of these teachings, it really is about a heart change. You know, great stewardship goes beyond math and logic and financial principles, and it really is about our heart. And it's this idea, as believers, that we want to see God as our ultimate treasure, because the things of this world seem like they have an allure and they can satisfy us. But we know at the end of the day, that God sized hole in our hearts can never be filled by the things of this world, but only by God Himself. We were created for relationship with him, and I think we're reminded in first Samuel 16 that man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. And so maybe we could say it this way man likes to do the math, but. But the Lord weighs the heart of the steward. And I think that's, you know, really the beginning point of biblical money management.

Oh, it's such a good question, and I'm so glad to be with you guys today. You know, this is really the big idea when it comes to money management through the lens of Scripture. Because, you know, we talk a lot about these 2300 verses that are in God's Word related to money and possessions. And often it's just that it has a money connection, because money is just something we all interact with. And that was true in Jesus time as well. And so it was a great teaching device. But if you look at the core of these messages and really there's like 21 chapters in God's Word in the Old and New Testament that have kind of the longest, richest teachings on money given by Jesus and the apostles John and Matthew and Luke and Mark and Peter and James. And if you look at really the core of these teachings, it really is about a heart change. You know, great stewardship goes beyond math and logic and financial principles, and it really is about our heart. And it's this idea, as believers, that we want to see God as our ultimate treasure, because the things of this world seem like they have an allure and they can satisfy us. But we know at the end of the day, that God sized hole in our hearts can never be filled by the things of this world, but only by God Himself. We were created for relationship with him, and I think we're reminded in first Samuel 16 that man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. And so maybe we could say it this way man likes to do the math, but. But the Lord weighs the heart of the steward. And I think that's, you know, really the beginning point of biblical money management.

Rob West, president of Kingdom Advisors. You know, it's really, Rob, I think beholding the beauty of Jesus in the gospel, I think of Second Corinthians. I think it's second Corinthians eight nine for, you know, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might become rich. And Paul's talking there about what Jesus has done for us, but he's also talking to the Corinthians about, you know, look at the extravagance of Jesus and be like him.

Rob West, president of Kingdom Advisors. You know, it's really, Rob, I think beholding the beauty of Jesus in the gospel, I think of Second Corinthians. I think it's second Corinthians eight nine for, you know, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that you through his poverty might become rich. And Paul's talking there about what Jesus has done for us, but he's also talking to the Corinthians about, you know, look at the extravagance of Jesus and be like him.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right, you see. You know, God gives us the eyes to see that the real treasure is him and not wealth. And and it really starts from a place of surrender. You know, we need to be on our knees saying, God, what would you have me to do? Recognizing we have this really high calling to be money managers of the King of Kings. But that only works when we put money in its proper place. It's not an end. It's a means to an end. It's a tool to accomplish God's purposes in the beginning. Point is to say, God, I value and treasure you above everything. You know, there's this really fascinating story, uh, in God's Word that Jesus tells about, we call it the parable of the rich fool. And you remember what he said right there at the end? You know that he was called a fool because he he valued his things, that he was building bigger barns to store over everything. And he was celebrating his own ingenuity in, in it being created. And ultimately, we see at the end of that story, the objective was for God to be our ultimate treasure. He said we should be rich toward God. And I think that means that we treasure and value God above everything else. And when that happens, well, money management becomes a blessing because now we say, how can I use God's resources not only to provide and not only to enjoy, which, by the way, is very appropriate according to God's Word, but also to give and to be partnered with God and loving our neighbors and helping to support and equip Christian ministries and and giving to our church and all those things that God allows us to participate in.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right, you see. You know, God gives us the eyes to see that the real treasure is him and not wealth. And and it really starts from a place of surrender. You know, we need to be on our knees saying, God, what would you have me to do? Recognizing we have this really high calling to be money managers of the King of Kings. But that only works when we put money in its proper place. It's not an end. It's a means to an end. It's a tool to accomplish God's purposes in the beginning. Point is to say, God, I value and treasure you above everything. You know, there's this really fascinating story, uh, in God's Word that Jesus tells about, we call it the parable of the rich fool. And you remember what he said right there at the end? You know that he was called a fool because he he valued his things, that he was building bigger barns to store over everything. And he was celebrating his own ingenuity in, in it being created. And ultimately, we see at the end of that story, the objective was for God to be our ultimate treasure. He said we should be rich toward God. And I think that means that we treasure and value God above everything else. And when that happens, well, money management becomes a blessing because now we say, how can I use God's resources not only to provide and not only to enjoy, which, by the way, is very appropriate according to God's Word, but also to give and to be partnered with God and loving our neighbors and helping to support and equip Christian ministries and and giving to our church and all those things that God allows us to participate in.

There is nothing in all the universe that can melt this stony heart of mine, like the love of God just being overwhelmed by the love of God. And that has changed my heart and is changing my heart.

There is nothing in all the universe that can melt this stony heart of mine, like the love of God just being overwhelmed by the love of God. And that has changed my heart and is changing my heart.

When God doesn't meet your expectations, maybe he's up to something better. When we moved to West Michigan, we had been living in Arizona for nine and a half years and built a life there. We built a home and put a pool in the backyard, in the ground, and had palm trees and grapefruit trees and lemon tree and orange tree and neighbors and friends, and just invested a lot of life into that place. And when we felt like God was up and moving us to Michigan, it was a really big deal. It was like leaving everything that we knew. And Arizona felt like me. It just did. It just. I felt like. I felt like I was home.

When God doesn't meet your expectations, maybe he's up to something better. When we moved to West Michigan, we had been living in Arizona for nine and a half years and built a life there. We built a home and put a pool in the backyard, in the ground, and had palm trees and grapefruit trees and lemon tree and orange tree and neighbors and friends, and just invested a lot of life into that place. And when we felt like God was up and moving us to Michigan, it was a really big deal. It was like leaving everything that we knew. And Arizona felt like me. It just did. It just. I felt like. I felt like I was home.

Well, you're from that part of the country, from California. Not that far from Los Angeles. Really?

Well, you're from that part of the country, from California. Not that far from Los Angeles. Really?

Yeah. So when we made the move across country to West Michigan, even when we were considering it, I could see how this was going to be so good for Dan. Like, he's from here. This is his tribe. These are his people. His parents are here. Even the work that he would be doing, I was like, I can just see how all of this is really, really good for my husband. And I could see how my kids were absolutely going to thrive. You know, Brynn was just about to step into her freshman year of high school and just the whole high school scene. Football games, Friday nights. It just. Midwest has got it going on.

Yeah. So when we made the move across country to West Michigan, even when we were considering it, I could see how this was going to be so good for Dan. Like, he's from here. This is his tribe. These are his people. His parents are here. Even the work that he would be doing, I was like, I can just see how all of this is really, really good for my husband. And I could see how my kids were absolutely going to thrive. You know, Brynn was just about to step into her freshman year of high school and just the whole high school scene. Football games, Friday nights. It just. Midwest has got it going on.

Yeah. Friday night lights.

Yeah. Friday night lights.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's Texas, but it's Michigan too, right?

Well, that's Texas, but it's Michigan too, right?

I just could see this being a really great place for my kids to grow up and go through those high school years, and. I just didn't see that there was anything good in it for me. I felt like a bit of a fish out of water. I remember being at Myer and just buying my groceries. I was in the freezer section, and there were a couple of women who had obviously knew each other and ran into each other and were just kind of chatting there at Myer. And I opened up the door, you know, and got my ice cream out and or whatever it was, it was pulling out of the freezer and they both stopped talking and they kind of looked at me. And so I looked over, you know, because it was kind of obvious that the conversation had stopped. And they said, where are you from? And I thought, why are you asking me that question? I'm just buying ice cream. I'm just here in the freezer section at Myer like everybody else. But clearly it looked like I didn't belong.

I just could see this being a really great place for my kids to grow up and go through those high school years, and. I just didn't see that there was anything good in it for me. I felt like a bit of a fish out of water. I remember being at Myer and just buying my groceries. I was in the freezer section, and there were a couple of women who had obviously knew each other and ran into each other and were just kind of chatting there at Myer. And I opened up the door, you know, and got my ice cream out and or whatever it was, it was pulling out of the freezer and they both stopped talking and they kind of looked at me. And so I looked over, you know, because it was kind of obvious that the conversation had stopped. And they said, where are you from? And I thought, why are you asking me that question? I'm just buying ice cream. I'm just here in the freezer section at Myer like everybody else. But clearly it looked like I didn't belong.

You're not from around these parts, are you?

You're not from around these parts, are you?

Yeah. That's what I felt was going on. You can take the the girl out of California, but you can't get the California out of the girl. Maybe that's what was going on there. I don't know, but I never would have imagined. I mean, I remember sitting in a in a beach chair by on right on Cobb Lake. Just going. Lord, I know this is good for my husband. I know this is good for my kids. It's a total sacrifice for me. There's nothing for me here. But I trust you. I remember praying that prayer and just couldn't see it. And I never would have dreamt that I would be here having conversations about Jesus, you know, growing in our faith together.

Yeah. That's what I felt was going on. You can take the the girl out of California, but you can't get the California out of the girl. Maybe that's what was going on there. I don't know, but I never would have imagined. I mean, I remember sitting in a in a beach chair by on right on Cobb Lake. Just going. Lord, I know this is good for my husband. I know this is good for my kids. It's a total sacrifice for me. There's nothing for me here. But I trust you. I remember praying that prayer and just couldn't see it. And I never would have dreamt that I would be here having conversations about Jesus, you know, growing in our faith together.

Yeah. So you moved here in what year?

Yeah. So you moved here in what year?

2010.

2010.

Okay. So. And it was 2018. It was eight years later that you started working here. What about the the interim there? Was it a whole struggle for you those eight years?

Okay. So. And it was 2018. It was eight years later that you started working here. What about the the interim there? Was it a whole struggle for you those eight years?

It was quite a struggle.

It was quite a struggle.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. You know, it just took a really long time to feel settled in.

Yeah. You know, it just took a really long time to feel settled in.

Yeah. So that is a great point, that for God to work out his plans for us requires a lot of patience. So you're very patient, and I know that you you have a close walk with God, and I'm sure you became a lot closer with God during those eight years, I did. Wondering where do I fit?

Yeah. So that is a great point, that for God to work out his plans for us requires a lot of patience. So you're very patient, and I know that you you have a close walk with God, and I'm sure you became a lot closer with God during those eight years, I did. Wondering where do I fit?

Absolutely 100%. I was doing this devotional, Walking with Jesus. I was reading through that devo yesterday, and when Jesus arrived in Jerusalem and everybody's shouting, everybody's cheering, this triumphal entry. Right. And the the people had an expectation of Jesus. They were like, he he's finally here. He's going to overthrow Rome. All the oppression that we've been under, he's going to release us from all of it. They wanted a warrior king to come in and do his thing. And Jesus comes in instead as the Prince of Peace. He came to seek and save the lost forever. It wasn't about the government at the time. It wasn't about a moment in history. This was the eternal work that he was doing.

Absolutely 100%. I was doing this devotional, Walking with Jesus. I was reading through that devo yesterday, and when Jesus arrived in Jerusalem and everybody's shouting, everybody's cheering, this triumphal entry. Right. And the the people had an expectation of Jesus. They were like, he he's finally here. He's going to overthrow Rome. All the oppression that we've been under, he's going to release us from all of it. They wanted a warrior king to come in and do his thing. And Jesus comes in instead as the Prince of Peace. He came to seek and save the lost forever. It wasn't about the government at the time. It wasn't about a moment in history. This was the eternal work that he was doing.

They were expecting the Second Coming, but they weren't expecting the first coming.

They were expecting the Second Coming, but they weren't expecting the first coming.

Mhm. That's it right there.

Mhm. That's it right there.

They thought it was just a one time thing. Messiah is coming. He's going to usher in a new age. And so they didn't see. They couldn't figure it out why he came so humbly. But he is a warrior king. When he comes again, he's going to come in that power. But his ways are above ours.

They thought it was just a one time thing. Messiah is coming. He's going to usher in a new age. And so they didn't see. They couldn't figure it out why he came so humbly. But he is a warrior king. When he comes again, he's going to come in that power. But his ways are above ours.

His ways are above ours. His timing is not the same as ours, and a lot of times we have expectations that God should do this thing, like he should work in this way. And when it doesn't go down that way, there's some wrestling to do in that, right? You expected that God was going to do this thing, and it maybe you're in the period of waiting. Maybe he still is going to show up the way that you hope and expect him to. But you're in the period of waiting. Maybe he's got something way bigger in mind, something much greater. We can trust that his way is perfect. Perfect. Even though it's different from ours. His way is perfect. And if we can trust that, then I think we can also surrender our own expectations for his perfect plan, we can trust that he's up to something good. When God's what he's doing doesn't meet our expectations. Maybe he's up to something even better.

His ways are above ours. His timing is not the same as ours, and a lot of times we have expectations that God should do this thing, like he should work in this way. And when it doesn't go down that way, there's some wrestling to do in that, right? You expected that God was going to do this thing, and it maybe you're in the period of waiting. Maybe he still is going to show up the way that you hope and expect him to. But you're in the period of waiting. Maybe he's got something way bigger in mind, something much greater. We can trust that his way is perfect. Perfect. Even though it's different from ours. His way is perfect. And if we can trust that, then I think we can also surrender our own expectations for his perfect plan, we can trust that he's up to something good. When God's what he's doing doesn't meet our expectations. Maybe he's up to something even better.

Maybe you can relate with this. I do things that that God has put on my heart, and I do them for him and I do them for others. But there are moments when I think, man, is this making a difference at all? Is it making any kind of a difference? Is it making any kind of a dent? So I have songs that are being streamed online and they've been streamed lots and lots and lots of times. And I have a mini podcast that tells stories of God working in the Muslim world. And they've been uploaded many, many, many, many, many times. But I haven't really gotten any feedback, so I have no idea if these offerings are making any kind of difference at all.

Maybe you can relate with this. I do things that that God has put on my heart, and I do them for him and I do them for others. But there are moments when I think, man, is this making a difference at all? Is it making any kind of a difference? Is it making any kind of a dent? So I have songs that are being streamed online and they've been streamed lots and lots and lots of times. And I have a mini podcast that tells stories of God working in the Muslim world. And they've been uploaded many, many, many, many, many times. But I haven't really gotten any feedback, so I have no idea if these offerings are making any kind of difference at all.

My heart is beating so fast. This I so resonate with this. Like this is I feel like everything I do in life, it just floats out there and I go, oh, okay, Lord, I, I trust you, I don't know, we don't know what the impact is. On Labor Day. I was with family at the Lake and Minor Lake in Allegan, and I have a brother in law who he works with, church planters, and he was visiting a church planter in Philadelphia. It's a Nepalese community, and he pastors a church that has just like thousands of refugees in this area that they're in. And somehow the guy was telling his story. And as he was telling his story, he said, yeah, I went to school in Grand Rapids and and then he shared about Moody Radio impacting his life. And, and then my brother in law says, oh, you know, my sister in law Shawna works for Moody Midi radio and he's like Harry and Shauna. He said, yeah, and he's like, I have been so blessed by their ministry. And the Nepalese community in Grand Rapids has been so blessed by their ministry. And my brother in law is telling me this on Monday and I'm like, jaw dropped, right? Because we do what God has called us to do, but we largely don't know what the impact is. Until you get a story like that back and you go, Praise God from whom all blessings flow.

My heart is beating so fast. This I so resonate with this. Like this is I feel like everything I do in life, it just floats out there and I go, oh, okay, Lord, I, I trust you, I don't know, we don't know what the impact is. On Labor Day. I was with family at the Lake and Minor Lake in Allegan, and I have a brother in law who he works with, church planters, and he was visiting a church planter in Philadelphia. It's a Nepalese community, and he pastors a church that has just like thousands of refugees in this area that they're in. And somehow the guy was telling his story. And as he was telling his story, he said, yeah, I went to school in Grand Rapids and and then he shared about Moody Radio impacting his life. And, and then my brother in law says, oh, you know, my sister in law Shawna works for Moody Midi radio and he's like Harry and Shauna. He said, yeah, and he's like, I have been so blessed by their ministry. And the Nepalese community in Grand Rapids has been so blessed by their ministry. And my brother in law is telling me this on Monday and I'm like, jaw dropped, right? Because we do what God has called us to do, but we largely don't know what the impact is. Until you get a story like that back and you go, Praise God from whom all blessings flow.

And that's what the Lord does from time to time, is he gives us little glimpses of of what we're doing and that it's making a difference. And so if you get discouraged, like me and Shauna do sometimes, maybe you teach a class in at your church and you never know if anything is happening because of it, or you're really intentional about serving your neighbors, or you're really trying to shine bright in your workplace, or you look for opportunities as a student to share and show the love of Jesus. You're serving in some way. You're doing it for God. But you're wondering, am I making any difference? Here's a passage that just really encourages me. And I got a text from my friend John on Monday, and he reminded me of lyrics of one of my own songs about my labor not being in vain.

And that's what the Lord does from time to time, is he gives us little glimpses of of what we're doing and that it's making a difference. And so if you get discouraged, like me and Shauna do sometimes, maybe you teach a class in at your church and you never know if anything is happening because of it, or you're really intentional about serving your neighbors, or you're really trying to shine bright in your workplace, or you look for opportunities as a student to share and show the love of Jesus. You're serving in some way. You're doing it for God. But you're wondering, am I making any difference? Here's a passage that just really encourages me. And I got a text from my friend John on Monday, and he reminded me of lyrics of one of my own songs about my labor not being in vain.

Wow.

Wow.

And so First Corinthians 1558 says, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourself fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

And so First Corinthians 1558 says, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourself fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

Thanks for letting Variant Shawna walk the real life journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shawna podcast comes from their live show Harry and Shawna Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800 968 8930. And please subscribe.

Thanks for letting Variant Shawna walk the real life journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shawna podcast comes from their live show Harry and Shawna Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800 968 8930. And please subscribe.