With a national debt of $31 trillion dollars, we need to start making choices about how to pay the debt down. In order to do that, we have to recognize that a great deal of government has to be modernized. It’s not just about the money, but about what the money buys, how it’s spent, how much waste there is, and to what degree the bureaucracies are inherently inefficient. Every government agency has a challenge of modernization. And the agency with the most complex challenge is the Department of Defense. Newt’s guest is Lisa Hershman. She is the former Chief Management Officer for the U.S. Department of Defense from 2018 – 2021.