As I mentioned a little earlier, New South Wales is going to begin a pill testing trial at music festivals from early twenty twenty five. The government says it will help people make safer choices before using illicit drugs. The twelve month trial, which will be anonymous and free to access, will cost the taxpayers just over one million dollars. It will allow festival goers to test a small sample of substances they intend to consume by health staff that will be tested for purity, potency, and adulterance. Well. A long time proponent and supporter of pill testing is Green's MLC and co leader Rob Simms, and he joins me now Robert, good morning to you, thanks for being with us.

As I mentioned a little earlier, New South Wales is going to begin a pill testing trial at music festivals from early twenty twenty five. The government says it will help people make safer choices before using illicit drugs. The twelve month trial, which will be anonymous and free to access, will cost the taxpayers just over one million dollars. It will allow festival goers to test a small sample of substances they intend to consume by health staff that will be tested for purity, potency, and adulterance. Well. A long time proponent and supporter of pill testing is Green's MLC and co leader Rob Simms, and he joins me now Robert, good morning to you, thanks for being with us.

Good morning, Graham, thank you for having me.

Good morning, Graham, thank you for having me.

You have approached the state government in the past about pill testing. Why are you so in favor of it?

You have approached the state government in the past about pill testing. Why are you so in favor of it?

Yeah, I have approached the government previously and urged them to take action on this, and that's because pill testing save its lives. I'm often approached by parents who have very, very worried about their children this time of year. You know, teenagers that might be heading out to events in the festival season and the risk that they might be subject to if they take an illicted substance. Now, you know, ideally drugs don't safe to years and we don't want people to be taking these substances. But you know, let's get real. People are going to continue to do it irrespective of what politicians like I say, and that's why the Greens have long advocated for fill testing so that people can get the information they need to make an informed choice. And all of the evidence demonstrates that when they get the information and then they're able or much more lifely to discard potentially dangerous drug and that saves.

Yeah, I have approached the government previously and urged them to take action on this, and that's because pill testing save its lives. I'm often approached by parents who have very, very worried about their children this time of year. You know, teenagers that might be heading out to events in the festival season and the risk that they might be subject to if they take an illicted substance. Now, you know, ideally drugs don't safe to years and we don't want people to be taking these substances. But you know, let's get real. People are going to continue to do it irrespective of what politicians like I say, and that's why the Greens have long advocated for fill testing so that people can get the information they need to make an informed choice. And all of the evidence demonstrates that when they get the information and then they're able or much more lifely to discard potentially dangerous drug and that saves.

Live Is pill testing being carried out anywhere in Australia at the.

Live Is pill testing being carried out anywhere in Australia at the.

Moment, Yes it is, so it happens in the ACC. It's also in place in Victoria. We've now got new sot Wales during this trial. Queensland is doing the same. So South Australia is really looking like the odd one out. We have had pill testing here before as a trial years ago, but we think it's time for the government to revisit this. This isn't about being stuffed on drugs. It's actually about recognizing that people will take these substances and that government has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce harm.

Moment, Yes it is, so it happens in the ACC. It's also in place in Victoria. We've now got new sot Wales during this trial. Queensland is doing the same. So South Australia is really looking like the odd one out. We have had pill testing here before as a trial years ago, but we think it's time for the government to revisit this. This isn't about being stuffed on drugs. It's actually about recognizing that people will take these substances and that government has a responsibility to do what it can to reduce harm.

I'm a bit intrigued as to how it can work. I mean, we're talking illicit drugs here, So we're talking about somebody walking up to a music festival on the outside, they've got illicit drugs and if they were tapped on the shoulder by police, they could be penalized for it. They go inside and then they can go up to an official pill testing site with immunity. How does that work.

I'm a bit intrigued as to how it can work. I mean, we're talking illicit drugs here, So we're talking about somebody walking up to a music festival on the outside, they've got illicit drugs and if they were tapped on the shoulder by police, they could be penalized for it. They go inside and then they can go up to an official pill testing site with immunity. How does that work.

Well, the way it works in sav Act is the health department there has a collaboration with police. So if someone is going to a pill testing side with a drug, they're not going to be arrested or prosecuted and carrying that drug if they're outside the pal testing facility. So it does require collaboration with law enforcement. What happens is they bring the drug in, it is tested, and they're told.

Well, the way it works in sav Act is the health department there has a collaboration with police. So if someone is going to a pill testing side with a drug, they're not going to be arrested or prosecuted and carrying that drug if they're outside the pal testing facility. So it does require collaboration with law enforcement. What happens is they bring the drug in, it is tested, and they're told.

Whats in it.

Whats in it.

Now. One thing that's really important for your listeners to understand is if they get given back the drug. Let's say someone's taking MDNA, you know, exptency, They get given the drug and they say, yeah, look this is what it coorts to be. But don't just simply say oh, go and take it, have a great night. They say, look, okay, we've tested it. It is m DNA. But there's still significant risks sociated with taking the drug. Do you have a plan in place, are you going to be with friends, are you going to make sure you have enough fluids? Can you get home as your phone charged? Are you sure you really want to take this? But what the evidence demonstrates in other jurisdictions is that when people have those conversations, they're actually much less likely to end up taking the drug, irrespective whether or it's safe not so, and no drugs are safe at take. There's always a risk associated with drugs, including alcohol, of course. But what's good about the pill testing is that they give people that advice on the spot and really counsel them about their options, which I think is very important.

Now. One thing that's really important for your listeners to understand is if they get given back the drug. Let's say someone's taking MDNA, you know, exptency, They get given the drug and they say, yeah, look this is what it coorts to be. But don't just simply say oh, go and take it, have a great night. They say, look, okay, we've tested it. It is m DNA. But there's still significant risks sociated with taking the drug. Do you have a plan in place, are you going to be with friends, are you going to make sure you have enough fluids? Can you get home as your phone charged? Are you sure you really want to take this? But what the evidence demonstrates in other jurisdictions is that when people have those conversations, they're actually much less likely to end up taking the drug, irrespective whether or it's safe not so, and no drugs are safe at take. There's always a risk associated with drugs, including alcohol, of course. But what's good about the pill testing is that they give people that advice on the spot and really counsel them about their options, which I think is very important.

What happens in the situation they test a pill and they find it's contaminated with something, Is it confiscated or what happens at that point?

What happens in the situation they test a pill and they find it's contaminated with something, Is it confiscated or what happens at that point?

Well, if an actual so remember of course, if you've actually tested a pill, you have to take a part of it, so you don't give back. You can't really give back the pill that's been tested generally, but they will say, look, this has come from you know, you've given us this. This means that this series of pills you've got are going to be contaminated, so you know it's not wise to take them. And in fact, if you do take it, you might be putting yourself at significant risk. And let's not forget we've seen instances at some music festivals where young people have had many have died, but we've also seen people suffering a life altering consequences, long term health consequences, young people falling into be put into a duced coma, and so on, so they can be really adverse consequences that takes that flow from a bad batch here. So what they say is, you know, we're really discouraging you and taking it. What all the evidence demonstrates from jurisdictions where they have these in place, when the person gets at information, they say, okay, I'm I'm not going to take this right and they just guard it.

Well, if an actual so remember of course, if you've actually tested a pill, you have to take a part of it, so you don't give back. You can't really give back the pill that's been tested generally, but they will say, look, this has come from you know, you've given us this. This means that this series of pills you've got are going to be contaminated, so you know it's not wise to take them. And in fact, if you do take it, you might be putting yourself at significant risk. And let's not forget we've seen instances at some music festivals where young people have had many have died, but we've also seen people suffering a life altering consequences, long term health consequences, young people falling into be put into a duced coma, and so on, so they can be really adverse consequences that takes that flow from a bad batch here. So what they say is, you know, we're really discouraging you and taking it. What all the evidence demonstrates from jurisdictions where they have these in place, when the person gets at information, they say, okay, I'm I'm not going to take this right and they just guard it.

A question that keeps coming back to me regarding this from concerned parents is that they're confident that their child will not touch drugs because they don't know what's in it. I'm not going to touch it. I don't know, so they draw the line. But the situation where they're in a situation where they're presented with a pill and they can get it tested and they say, well it is okay. So isn't that encouraging drug taking?

A question that keeps coming back to me regarding this from concerned parents is that they're confident that their child will not touch drugs because they don't know what's in it. I'm not going to touch it. I don't know, so they draw the line. But the situation where they're in a situation where they're presented with a pill and they can get it tested and they say, well it is okay. So isn't that encouraging drug taking?

I understand, I understand that argument, but you know the reality is mum and dad are not always the best authority and what their teenage kids are doing, and kids are not necessarily in which were about teenagers here not necessarily going to level with their parents around what they're doing. It's true that lots of young people won't be taking drugs, and I welcome that. I don't think we want to see young people are taking these substances, but some will, and those that do, I would much rather then have that information, access to counseling and support and information around what they're taking, rather than them in effect playing Russian rule atte because that can just have devastating consequences for our community. The reality year is so many other places around Australia is doing it. Why not just do a trial see how it works. And we've done a trial here about Australian years ago it was considered successful. Why not do it again and let's look at some of these issues and have a broader conversation in the community around it. But I could tell you from conversations I've had with parents over the last few years, most parents I speak to actually want to see pill testing in place because they're concerned about the risks.

I understand, I understand that argument, but you know the reality is mum and dad are not always the best authority and what their teenage kids are doing, and kids are not necessarily in which were about teenagers here not necessarily going to level with their parents around what they're doing. It's true that lots of young people won't be taking drugs, and I welcome that. I don't think we want to see young people are taking these substances, but some will, and those that do, I would much rather then have that information, access to counseling and support and information around what they're taking, rather than them in effect playing Russian rule atte because that can just have devastating consequences for our community. The reality year is so many other places around Australia is doing it. Why not just do a trial see how it works. And we've done a trial here about Australian years ago it was considered successful. Why not do it again and let's look at some of these issues and have a broader conversation in the community around it. But I could tell you from conversations I've had with parents over the last few years, most parents I speak to actually want to see pill testing in place because they're concerned about the risks.

Now, Robert, I have a text message June has called in to say, please ask Robert Simms is he in favor of legalizing these drugs that we've heard him say so in the past.

Now, Robert, I have a text message June has called in to say, please ask Robert Simms is he in favor of legalizing these drugs that we've heard him say so in the past.

I think what I've talked about before is the need for a harm minimization approach to drugs. So you look at again the Act. They did a major law reform piece a few years ago now where they significantly reduced the offenses for possessing small amounts of these substances, but then they significantly increase the penalties for dealing and recognizing the social harm that flows from drugs. I think when we put people in a situation where we're managing what is in effect a health issue, the criminal law issue, were potentially set their lives on a really dangerous course. You're criminalizing people. They might spend years interacting with the law system rather than being able to get the help that they need. But in terms of my priorities in this space, I'm focusing on pill testing at the moment. Let's look at that first and try and move in that space, and will continue to push for a harm minimization approach to drugs as well.

I think what I've talked about before is the need for a harm minimization approach to drugs. So you look at again the Act. They did a major law reform piece a few years ago now where they significantly reduced the offenses for possessing small amounts of these substances, but then they significantly increase the penalties for dealing and recognizing the social harm that flows from drugs. I think when we put people in a situation where we're managing what is in effect a health issue, the criminal law issue, were potentially set their lives on a really dangerous course. You're criminalizing people. They might spend years interacting with the law system rather than being able to get the help that they need. But in terms of my priorities in this space, I'm focusing on pill testing at the moment. Let's look at that first and try and move in that space, and will continue to push for a harm minimization approach to drugs as well.

Will the New South Wales government move give you more incentive to tackle the government to take a further step?

Will the New South Wales government move give you more incentive to tackle the government to take a further step?

Absolutely, and look, I plan to raise this when Parliament and resume in the new year. I have done so over several years now. We'll keep pushing. I think what this demonstrates though, when you've got New South Wales moving on this is that now South Australia is becoming the odd one out. Peter Malanaus, because I think has a very good relationship with the Premier mins over in New South Wales that both of the Labour Party, I encourage him to have a chat with him over the summer break and find out how this is still working and let's see if we can get moving on something like this next year in South Australia as well.

Absolutely, and look, I plan to raise this when Parliament and resume in the new year. I have done so over several years now. We'll keep pushing. I think what this demonstrates though, when you've got New South Wales moving on this is that now South Australia is becoming the odd one out. Peter Malanaus, because I think has a very good relationship with the Premier mins over in New South Wales that both of the Labour Party, I encourage him to have a chat with him over the summer break and find out how this is still working and let's see if we can get moving on something like this next year in South Australia as well.

Robertson was good to talk. You have a wonderful Christmas in new year.

Robertson was good to talk. You have a wonderful Christmas in new year.

Thank you very much, Graham, and Merry Christmas to you and your listeners.

Thank you very much, Graham, and Merry Christmas to you and your listeners.

That's Robert Simms Green MLC,

That's Robert Simms Green MLC,