Riots and earthquakes and covid, oh my. Melbourne, you’re having a very extra week. We're attempting to unpack and explain the recent riots in the city of Melbourne. Are the tradies really to blame?

Plus, as more and more artists identify as non-binary, where does that leave the very binary categories of awards shows?

And, a very personal question about what you do in the shower...

The End Bits:

Recommendations: Jessie wants you to watch the new season of Sex Education on Netflix


Learn more about MPlus here. 


CREDITS

Hosts: Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright and Mia Freedman

Producer: Emma Gillespie 

CONTACT US

Via our PodPhone on 02 8999 9386

Via our email at outloud@mamamia.com.au 

Via our Outlouders Facebook page- https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/

Mamamia Out Loud is a podcast by Mamamia https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Riots and earthquakes and covid, oh my. Melbourne, you&rsquo;re having a very extra week.&nbsp;We're attempting to unpack and explain the recent riots in the city of Melbourne. Are the tradies really to blame?
Plus, as more and more artists identify as non-binary, where does that leave the very binary categories of awards shows?
And, a very personal question about what you do in the shower...
The End Bits:
Recommendations: Jessie&nbsp;wants you to watch the new season of Sex Education on Netflix 
<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/">Learn more about MPlus here</a>.&nbsp; 
CREDITS
Hosts: Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright and Mia Freedman
Producer: Emma Gillespie&nbsp;
CONTACT US
Via our PodPhone on 02 8999 9386
Via our email at <a href="mailto:outloud@mamamia.com.au">outloud@mamamia.com.au</a>&nbsp;
Via our Outlouders Facebook page- <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/</a>
Mamamia Out Loud is a podcast by Mamamia <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/">https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/</a>
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation — with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It’s conversation at its most addictive.

Australia's #1 podcast for women is where inquisitive minds come for great conversation &mdash; with an occasional side serve of chaos. Covering news, pop culture, and big ideas, plus the small stuff that matters, Mamamia Out Loud features a rotating panel of hosts, including Mia Freedman, Jessie Stephens, Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens, Amelia Lester, and Em Vernem. It's your daily dose of conversation that feels like catching up with your funniest and sharpest friends in the group chat. It&rsquo;s conversation at its most addictive.

A weekly podcast that's smart, often silly and sometimes surprising.

Mamamia Out Loud

Riots And Earthquakes And Covid, Oh My

First, a rundown of the scurrilous gossip you missed while you were actually working: Sydney Sweeney’s cameo’s been cut from The Devil Wears Prada 2, Harry Styles is either engaged or ring-baiting us and Kim Kardashian and Lewis Hamilton have hard-launched with a pap-frolic. 

In other business, why is Reese Witherspoon suddenly telling all her followers to use AI? Is this a genuine attempt to close the gender tech-gap, or is Reese just the friendliest face the robots could recruit to crack Gen X?

In other business, we might be witnessing the most effective character-assassination comeback in history. While Lily Allen is currently touring an album that provides a literal receipt-by-receipt rundown of her marriage breakdown — complete with props explaining David Harbour’s alleged infidelity — her ex is busy being the most lovable man on TV in DTF St. Louis. Holly asks if playing someone lovable is the best way to rehabilitate an actor’s bad reputation? Let’s ask Noah Wyle and Adam Driver.

What can one of the world’s richest women (by marriage) tell us about happiness? No, please don’t throw your phone, Clare’s all ears for Lauren Sanchez Bezos’s gratitude tips.

And finally, we need to talk about the absolute tailspin that occurs when a Gen Z coworker compliments an older coworker’s outfit. Is it genuine praise, or a calculated power move? Amelia’s diving into millennial fashion anxiety and why a simple 'I love your jeans' can feel like a personal attack.

SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY:

Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. Subscribe to Mamamia here before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. T&Cs apply.

SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media 

What To Listen To Next: 
Listen to The Spill: We Met Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway And Here's What Went Down & Our New TV Obsession
Listen to our latest episode: Harry & Meghan Just Blew Up The Sandringham Summit
Listen: Your Boss's Unpopular Opinion & It's Taurus Season
Listen: A Fight About Who’s Allowed To Have A Crush
Listen: Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship
Listen: A Podcast Feud & Hanging Out With Prince Harry
Listen: She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'
Listen: Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts 

Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.

SUBSCRIBE here:Support independent women's media 

You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see

Mamamia Out Loud on Apple

What to read: 
'I spent a day with Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway. One moment changed my view on The Devil Wears Prada 2.'
Harry Styles refuses to repeat himself. On his fourth album, that's the whole point.
 'Gen Z knows more about AI than their bosses. It's about to change how we all work.'
Lily Allen was alone in a London hotel room when David Harbour called. Nothing would be the same.

THE END BITS: 

Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

First, a rundown of the scurrilous gossip you missed while you were actually working: Sydney Sweeney&rsquo;s cameo&rsquo;s been cut from The Devil Wears Prada 2, Harry Styles is either engaged or ring-baiting us and Kim Kardashian and Lewis Hamilton have hard-launched with a pap-frolic.&nbsp;
In other business, why is Reese Witherspoon suddenly telling all her followers to use AI? Is this a genuine attempt to close the gender tech-gap, or is Reese just the friendliest face the robots could recruit to crack Gen X?
In other business, we might be witnessing the most effective character-assassination comeback in history. While Lily Allen is currently touring an album that provides a literal receipt-by-receipt rundown of her marriage breakdown &mdash; complete with props explaining David Harbour&rsquo;s alleged infidelity &mdash; her ex is busy being the most lovable man on TV in DTF St. Louis. Holly asks if playing someone lovable is the best way to rehabilitate an actor&rsquo;s bad reputation? Let&rsquo;s ask Noah Wyle and Adam Driver.
What can one of the world&rsquo;s richest women (by marriage) tell us about happiness? No, please don&rsquo;t throw your phone, Clare&rsquo;s all ears for Lauren Sanchez Bezos&rsquo;s gratitude tips.
And finally, we need to talk about the absolute tailspin that occurs when a Gen Z coworker compliments an older coworker&rsquo;s outfit. Is it genuine praise, or a calculated power move? Amelia&rsquo;s diving into millennial fashion anxiety and why a simple 'I love your jeans' can feel like a personal attack.
SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY:
Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher.&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bed-threads-voucher-giveaway/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=giveaways&amp;utm_content=bed-threads">Subscribe to Mamamia here</a> before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw.<a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/subscriber-giveaway-bed-threads-5688743"> T&amp;Cs apply</a>.
SUBSCRIBE here:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
What To Listen To Next:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to The Spill: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-spill/anne-hathaway-and-meryl-streep-press-tour/">We Met Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway And Here's What Went Down &amp; Our New TV Obsession</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to our latest episode:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/harry-meghan-sandringham-summit/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Harry &amp; Meghan Just Blew Up The Sandringham Summit</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/emma-grede-work-from-home/">Your Boss's Unpopular Opinion &amp; It's Taurus Season</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/what-is-cheating-nikki-glaser/">A Fight About Who&rsquo;s Allowed To Have A Crush</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-four-burners-theory/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/prince-harry-meghan-australia/">A Podcast Feud &amp; Hanging Out With Prince Harry</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-freedman-anne-stephens-nana-rules/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/coachella-bieber-pay-day/">Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/cancelled/cancelled-jessie-twins-birth-story/"></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/channel/mamamia/id6442502456?ign-itscg=80085&amp;ign-itsct=pod_cha_mamam332_NA">Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts&nbsp;</a></li>
</ul>
Discover more <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/">Mamamia Podcasts here </a>including the very latest episode of <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/parenting-out-loud/">Parenting Out Loud</a>, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/mamamia-out-loud/id928350893">Mamamia Out Loud on Apple</a>
What to read:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/the-devil-wears-prada-two-press/">'I spent a day with Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway. One moment changed my view on The Devil Wears Prada 2.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/harry-styles-new-album-review/">Harry Styles refuses to repeat himself. On his fourth album, that's the whole point.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/using-artificial-intelligence-at-work/">&nbsp;'Gen Z knows more about AI than their bosses. It's about to change how we all work.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/david-harbour-lily-allen/">Lily Allen was alone in a London hotel room when David Harbour called. Nothing would be the same.</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS:&nbsp;
Check out our merch at<a href="https://www.mamamiaoutloud.com.au/store"> MamamiaOutLoud.com</a>
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We&rsquo;re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960">Send us a voice message</a>.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram<a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en"> @mamamiaoutloud</a> and on Tiktok<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mamamiaoutloud"> @mamamiaoutloud</a>
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

When A Crappy Husband Makes A Great TV Show

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/c4cc0b43-2813-4c65-a14e-b42f001f3759/transcript

Madonna crashed Sabrina Carpenter’s Coachella stage and it took the crowd a minute to realise they were in the presence of an(other) icon. Luckily, Madge had a bonus skill up her sleeve: An astrology lecture about Taurus season.

Holly Wainwright brings a few little nuggets that slipped out of Meghan Duchess’s fancy Sydney event on the weekend, including a new theme song.

Also, Kardashian whisperer and multi-millionaire businesswoman Emma Grede says remote work is a 'career killer' for women. She reckons if you aren’t seen, you aren’t getting promoted. Is flexibility actually costing women their next big move, or allowing women to do their dream jobs in the first place? Amelia Lester has a story about the presentee boss from hell.

In other business, we’re diving into the dark world of 'looksmaxxing' after an influencer’s viral breakdown. From 'bone-smashing' to dangerous supplements, why are young men falling for a happiness formula that clearly isn't working?

And the debate that won't die: Should teachers be banned from social media? Over the weekend a viral post asking whether educators should also be influencers has taken over Clare Stephens's algorithm.

SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY:

Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. Subscribe to Mamamia here before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. T&Cs apply.

SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media 

What To Listen To Next: 
Listen to our latest episode: A Fight About Who’s Allowed To Have A Crush
Listen: Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship
Listen: A Podcast Feud & Hanging Out With Prince Harry
Listen: She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'
Listen: Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?
Listen: 'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship’
Listen: Mia & Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone’s Talking About
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts 

Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.

SUBSCRIBE here:Support independent women's media 

You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see

Mamamia Out Loud on Apple

What to read: 
Harry & Meghan are living Option 3.
Emma Grede cold-called Kris Jenner with an idea. Now she's worth $600 million.
Meghan Markle has only just arrived in Australia, but the most damning story about her has already been written.
'I spent a morning with Prince Harry. It wasn't at all like I expected.'
'We work with teenage girls every week. What we're hearing about boys is deeply concerning.'

THE END BITS: 

Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Madonna crashed Sabrina Carpenter&rsquo;s Coachella stage and it took the crowd a minute to realise they were in the presence of an(other) icon. Luckily, Madge had a bonus skill up her sleeve: An astrology lecture about Taurus season.
Holly Wainwright brings a few little nuggets that slipped out of Meghan Duchess&rsquo;s fancy Sydney event on the weekend, including a new theme song.
Also, Kardashian whisperer and multi-millionaire businesswoman Emma Grede says remote work is a 'career killer' for women. She reckons if you aren&rsquo;t seen, you aren&rsquo;t getting promoted. Is flexibility actually costing women their next big move, or allowing women to do their dream jobs in the first place? Amelia Lester has a story about the presentee boss from hell.
In other business, we&rsquo;re diving into the dark world of 'looksmaxxing' after an influencer&rsquo;s viral breakdown. From 'bone-smashing' to dangerous supplements, why are young men falling for a happiness formula that clearly isn't working?
And the debate that won't die: Should teachers be banned from social media? Over the weekend a viral post asking whether educators should also be influencers has taken over Clare Stephens's algorithm.
SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY:
Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher.<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bed-threads-voucher-giveaway/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=giveaways&amp;utm_content=bed-threads"> Subscribe to Mamamia here</a> before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/subscriber-giveaway-bed-threads-5688743">T&amp;Cs apply</a>.
SUBSCRIBE here:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
What To Listen To Next:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to our latest episode: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/what-is-cheating-nikki-glaser/">A Fight About Who&rsquo;s Allowed To Have A Crush</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-four-burners-theory/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/prince-harry-meghan-australia/">A Podcast Feud &amp; Hanging Out With Prince Harry</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-freedman-anne-stephens-nana-rules/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/coachella-bieber-pay-day/">Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/chatbot-chatgpt-relationship-therapist/">'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship&rsquo;</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-marriage-midlife-cheating/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia &amp; Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone&rsquo;s Talking About</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/cancelled/cancelled-jessie-twins-birth-story/"></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/channel/mamamia/id6442502456?ign-itscg=80085&amp;ign-itsct=pod_cha_mamam332_NA">Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts&nbsp;</a></li>
</ul>
Discover more <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/">Mamamia Podcasts here </a>including the very latest episode of <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/parenting-out-loud/">Parenting Out Loud</a>, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/mamamia-out-loud/id928350893">Mamamia Out Loud on Apple</a>
What to read:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://mamamiaoutloud.substack.com/p/harry-and-meghan-are-living-option">Harry &amp; Meghan are living Option 3.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/emma-grede-podcast/">Emma Grede cold-called Kris Jenner with an idea. Now she's worth $600 million.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/meghan-markle-women-only-retreat-australia-visit/">Meghan Markle has only just arrived in Australia, but the most damning story about her has already been written.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/meghan-prince-harry-melbourne-australia/">'I spent a morning with Prince Harry. It wasn't at all like I expected.'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/manosphere-teenage-girls-impact/">'We work with teenage girls every week. What we're hearing about boys is deeply concerning.'</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS:&nbsp;
Check out our merch at<a href="https://www.mamamiaoutloud.com.au/store"> MamamiaOutLoud.com</a>
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We&rsquo;re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960">Send us a voice message</a>.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram<a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en"> @mamamiaoutloud</a> and on Tiktok<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mamamiaoutloud"> @mamamiaoutloud</a>
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Your Boss's Unpopular Opinion & It's Taurus Season

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/cab92479-0a00-4600-b775-b42f001f1c51/transcript

Is having a crush the secret to a happy relationship, or the gateway drug to a ruinous affair? We can’t agree. Meanwhile, comedian Nikki Glaser says that sexual cheating is a turn-on and emotional cheating is a no-no. Who’s right, who’s deluded, and who should just be single, according to Emily Vernem?

Plus, enthusiasm for hobbies is at an-all time high, but why does it feel like men get all the good ones, while women get the leftovers of leisure? Holly Wainwright talks about her life-changing gardening habit, but acknowledges it’s first to go when life gets busy. So what’s an untouchable 'Sovereign Hobby', and how do we get one? 

And, there is an unofficial list of things women do to look like they have their shit together, and it involves everything from keeping whites white, to having enough coathangers, to knowing what stock is. Clare Stephens just wishes she could remember the snacks.

TV RECCOS SPECIAL
Clare’s watching:DTF St. Louison HBO Max. A dark, nonlinear comedy about a love triangle, a dating app for married people, and David Harbour being incredibly likable.
Holly’s watching: Riot Women on SBS. Created by Happy Valley’s Sally Wainwright, it’s a brilliant look at five middle-aged women who decide to form a punk band.
Em’s watching: Margo’s Got Money Troubleson Apple TV. Starring Elle Fanning, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Nick Offerman, it’s the story of a college dropout navigating new motherhood and mounting bills.

SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY: Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. Subscribe to Mamamia here before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. T&Cs apply.


SUBSCRIBE here: Support independent women's media 

What To Listen To Next: 
Listen to our latest episode: Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship
Listen: A Podcast Feud & Hanging Out With Prince Harry
Listen: She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'
Listen: Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?
Listen: 'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship’
Listen: Mia & Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone’s Talking About
Listen: The Hollywood Star Who Hates Everyone
Listen: Mia & Anne Stephens: A Nana Leaderboard
Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts 

Discover more Mamamia Podcasts here including the very latest episode of Parenting Out Loud, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.

SUBSCRIBE here:Support independent women's media 

You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see

Mamamia Out Loud on Apple

What to read: 
Elle Fanning's brilliant new TV show is smart, sincere and occasionally sexy.
Put away your oversized blazer. This is what stylish women are wearing in 2026.
Nikki Glaser met her boyfriend on set in 2013. They've broken up five times since.
'Old-school hobbies are back. These 6 to try with your kids will convert you.'

THE END BITS: 

Check out our merch at MamamiaOutLoud.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud and on Tiktok @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens & Emily Vernem

Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine

Executive Producer: Sasha Tannock

Video Producer: Josh Green

Junior Content Producer: Tessa Kotowicz

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

Is having a crush the secret to a happy relationship, or the gateway drug to a ruinous affair? We can&rsquo;t agree. Meanwhile, comedian Nikki Glaser says that sexual cheating is a turn-on and emotional cheating is a no-no. Who&rsquo;s right, who&rsquo;s deluded, and who should just be single, according to Emily Vernem?
Plus, enthusiasm for hobbies is at an-all time high, but why does it feel like men get all the good ones, while women get the leftovers of leisure? Holly Wainwright talks about her life-changing gardening habit, but acknowledges it&rsquo;s first to go when life gets busy. So what&rsquo;s an untouchable 'Sovereign Hobby', and how do we get one?&nbsp;
And, there is an unofficial list of things women do to look like they have their shit together, and it involves everything from keeping whites white, to having enough coathangers, to knowing what stock is. Clare Stephens just wishes she could remember the snacks.
TV RECCOS SPECIAL
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Clare&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/4cvYqAf">DTF St. Louis </a>on HBO Max. A dark, nonlinear comedy about a love triangle, a dating app for married people, and David Harbour being incredibly likable.</li>
<li aria-level="1">Holly&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/4ebNJWb">Riot Women</a> on SBS. Created by Happy Valley&rsquo;s Sally Wainwright, it&rsquo;s a brilliant look at five middle-aged women who decide to form a punk band.</li>
<li aria-level="1">Em&rsquo;s watching: <a href="https://fave.co/3O6c7hi">Margo&rsquo;s Got Money Troubles </a>on Apple TV. Starring Elle Fanning, Michelle Pfeiffer, and Nick Offerman, it&rsquo;s the story of a college dropout navigating new motherhood and mounting bills.</li>
</ul>
SUBSCRIPTION GIVEAWAY: Win a $2,000 Bed Threads voucher. <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bed-threads-voucher-giveaway/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=giveaways&amp;utm_content=bed-threads">Subscribe to Mamamia here</a> before April 30 to be automatically entered. Current subscriber? You're already in the draw. <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/subscriber-giveaway-bed-threads-5688743">T&amp;Cs apply</a>. 
SUBSCRIBE here:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
What To Listen To Next:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Listen to our latest episode:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-four-burners-theory/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Mia's Uncomfortable Aha Moment About Friendship</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/prince-harry-meghan-australia/">A Podcast Feud &amp; Hanging Out With Prince Harry</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-mia-freedman-anne-stephens-nana-rules/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">She's Back! Mia Confronts Rival Anne Stephens On 'Nana Rules'</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/coachella-bieber-pay-day/">Quick Question: Why Are You So Annoying?</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/chatbot-chatgpt-relationship-therapist/">'The Chatbot History That Ruined My Relationship&rsquo;</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/subs-marriage-midlife-cheating/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia &amp; Amelia On The Cheating Drama Everyone&rsquo;s Talking About</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/taylor-swift-wedding-predictions/">The Hollywood Star Who Hates Everyone</a></li>
<li aria-level="1">Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/mia-freedman-twins-nana-leaderboard/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia &amp; Anne Stephens: A Nana Leaderboard</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/cancelled/cancelled-jessie-twins-birth-story/"></a><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/channel/mamamia/id6442502456?ign-itscg=80085&amp;ign-itsct=pod_cha_mamam332_NA">Connect your subscription to Apple Podcasts&nbsp;</a></li>
</ul>
Discover more <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/">Mamamia Podcasts here </a>including the very latest episode of <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/parenting-out-loud/">Parenting Out Loud</a>, the parenting podcast for people who don't listen to... parenting podcasts.
SUBSCRIBE here:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Support independent women's media</a>&nbsp;
You can now watch our show in full length video on the Apple Podcast app - make sure your phone is up to date and we can't wait for you to see
<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/mamamia-out-loud/id928350893">Mamamia Out Loud on Apple</a>
What to read:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/margos-got-money-troubles-review/">Elle Fanning's brilliant new TV show is smart, sincere and occasionally sexy.</a><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/life-changing-list-of-questions/"></a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/fitted-blazer-trend/">Put away your oversized blazer. This is what stylish women are wearing in 2026.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/nikki-glaser-boyfriend/">Nikki Glaser met her boyfriend on set in 2013. They've broken up five times since.</a></li>
<li aria-level="1"><a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/old-school-hobbies-are-back/">'Old-school hobbies are back. These 6 to try with your kids will convert you.'</a></li>
</ul>
THE END BITS:&nbsp;
Check out our merch at<a href="https://www.mamamiaoutloud.com.au/store"> MamamiaOutLoud.com</a>
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We&rsquo;re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960">Send us a voice message</a>.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram<a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en"> @mamamiaoutloud</a> and on Tiktok<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mamamiaoutloud"> @mamamiaoutloud</a>
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Clare Stephens &amp; Emily Vernem
Group Executive Producer: Ruth Devine
Executive Producer: Sasha Tannock
Video Producer: Josh Green
Junior Content Producer: Tessa Kotowicz
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land on which we have recorded this podcast.

A Fight About Who’s Allowed To Have A Crush

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/3ea926be-9be7-482a-8ac3-a44f016e43d1/clips/abb3c0a3-4ac7-4adc-aed4-b42700311efd/transcript

Riots And Earthquakes And Covid, Oh My

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