After reading Phoebe Matlz Bovy’s reflective article on ‘Lean in’ feminism, Mia asks, is the whole Karen meme that shames women for speaking up just another way to silence us?

Also, what is ‘soft ghosting’? We bring in Mamamia’s social media executive and dating correspondent, Emily Vernem, who has some dating horror stories.

Plus, how to argue with someone who has super LOUD opinions. An anonymous Outlouder needs some help, so it’s time for the ol’ Group Therapy.

LINKS
The Karen Meme and the Death of “Lean In” Feminism by Phoebe Maltz Bovy… https://arcdigital.media/the-karen-meme-and-the-death-of-lean-in-feminism-c9fa0cb38d0b
The article ‘I Don’t Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People’ by Kayla Chadwick...https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440
How To Have A Conversation hub on Mamamia… https://www.mamamia.com.au/tag/how-to-have-a-conversation/

RECCOS

Jessie-Dying For Sex

CREDITS

Hosts: Jessie Stephens, Mia Freedman and Holly Wainwright

Guest: Emily Vernem

Producer: Lem Zakharia

CONTACT US

Via our PodPhone on 02 8999 9386

Via our email at outloud@mamamia.com.au  

Via our Outlouders Facebook page- https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/

Mamamia Out Loud is a podcast by Mamamia-  https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/

After reading Phoebe Matlz Bovy&rsquo;s reflective article on &lsquo;Lean in&rsquo; feminism, Mia asks, is the whole Karen meme that shames women for speaking up just another way to silence us?
Also, what is &lsquo;soft ghosting&rsquo;? We bring in Mamamia&rsquo;s social media executive and dating correspondent, Emily Vernem, who has some dating horror stories.
Plus, how to argue with someone who has super LOUD opinions. An anonymous Outlouder needs some help, so it&rsquo;s time for the ol&rsquo; Group Therapy.
LINKS
<ul>
<li>The Karen Meme and the Death of &ldquo;Lean In&rdquo; Feminism by Phoebe Maltz Bovy&hellip; <a href="https://arcdigital.media/the-karen-meme-and-the-death-of-lean-in-feminism-c9fa0cb38d0b">https://arcdigital.media/the-karen-meme-and-the-death-of-lean-in-feminism-c9fa0cb38d0b</a></li>
<li>The article &lsquo;I Don&rsquo;t Know How To Explain To You That You Should Care About Other People&rsquo; by Kayla Chadwick...<a href="https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440">https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440</a></li>
<li>How To Have A Conversation hub on Mamamia&hellip; <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/tag/how-to-have-a-conversation/">https://www.mamamia.com.au/tag/how-to-have-a-conversation/</a></li>
</ul>
RECCOS
Jessie-Dying For Sex
CREDITS
Hosts: Jessie Stephens, Mia Freedman and Holly Wainwright
Guest: Emily Vernem
Producer: Lem Zakharia
CONTACT US
Via our PodPhone on 02 8999 9386
Via our email at outloud@mamamia.com.au&nbsp;&nbsp;
Via our Outlouders Facebook page- <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/329632330777506/</a>
Mamamia Out Loud is a podcast by Mamamia-&nbsp; <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/">https://www.mamamia.com.au/author/mamamiaoutloud/</a>

Smart, often silly and sometimes surprising. Absolutely everything is up for discussion: from pop culture to politics, body image to motherhood, feminism to fashion. Join Mia Freedman, Holly Wainwright and Jessie Stephens as they dissect the news and issues of the week.

Smart, often silly and sometimes surprising. Absolutely everything is up for discussion: from pop culture to politics, body image to motherhood, feminism to fashion. Join Mia Freedman, Holly Wainwright and Jessie Stephens as they dissect the news and issues of the week.

A weekly podcast that's smart, often silly and sometimes surprising.

Mamamia Out Loud

How To Win An Argument

Subscribe to Mamamia

The queen of turning her breakups into number one records, has a new album. Taylor Swift'sThe Tortured Poets Department explores the five stages of breakup grief. So why are we so obsessed with breakups? And do women have a knack for predicting when they'll happen? We discuss. 

Plus, the most-watched show on Netflix right now, a newsletter (with a cheeky hack) and a controversial book - our weekend recommendations.

And, socks, long-distance celebrations and a great big period headache, it's our best and worsts of the week. 

The End Bits: 
Listen to the latest episode: Mia Re-thinks Her Relationship With Social Media
Listen: Yes, We're Reading 'Fairy Smut' Out Loud
Listen: Followed Home & The Voice In Her Ear: The Times We Trusted Our Gut
Read: 40 women on the specific moment they knew they were going to break up with their partner.
Read: 'I have to call in sick every month because I have a hangover. It's not from alcohol.'
Read: The hidden condition affecting the sex lives of nearly 1 in 3 women at Mamamia.
Get your tickets: Mamamia Out Loud Live Presented By NIVEA CELLULAR
Listen to True Crime Conversations with Gemma Bath 
Listen to The Spill for your daily dose of pop culture

Sign up to the Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 

Want to try our new exercise app? Click here to start a seven-day free trial of MOVE by Mamamia 

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message

Tell us what you really think so we can give you more of what you really want. Fill out this survey and you’ll go in the running to win one of five $100 gift vouchers.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Emily Vernem & Gemma Bath

Producer: Emeline Gazilas

Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman

Audio Producer: Scott Stronach 

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-stringify-link="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-sk="tooltip_parent">Subscribe to Mamamia</a>
The queen of turning her breakups into number one records, has a new album. Taylor Swift'sThe Tortured Poets Department explores the five stages of breakup grief. So why are we so obsessed with breakups? And do women have a knack for predicting when they'll happen? We discuss. 
Plus, the most-watched show on Netflix right now, a newsletter (with a cheeky hack) and a controversial book - our weekend recommendations.
And, socks, long-distance celebrations and a great big period headache, it's our best and worsts of the week. 
The End Bits: 
<ul>
<li>Listen to the latest episode: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/mia-rethinks-her-relationship-with-social-media/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Mia Re-thinks Her Relationship With Social Media</a></li>
<li>Listen: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/a-court-of-thorns-and-roses">Yes, We're Reading 'Fairy Smut' Out Loud</a></li>
<li>Listen:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/trusting-your-intuition/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> Followed Home &amp; The Voice In Her Ear: The Times We Trusted Our Gut</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/relationship-ending-stories/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">40 women on the specific moment they knew they were going to break up with their partner.</a></li>
<li>Read:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/migraine-hangover/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> 'I have to call in sick every month because I have a hangover. It's not from alcohol.'</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/what-does-vaginismus-feel-like/amp/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The hidden condition affecting the sex lives of nearly 1 in 3 women at Mamamia.</a></li>
<li>Get your tickets: <a href="https://www.outloudlive.com.au/">Mamamia Out Loud Live Presented By NIVEA CELLULAR</a></li>
<li>Listen to <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/true-crime-conversations/">True Crime Conversations </a>with Gemma Bath </li>
<li>Listen to <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-spill/">The Spill</a> for your daily dose of pop culture</li>
</ul>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHzBCaKmtaLcRAOoazhCPA" data-ved="2ahUKEwj27PTb7amEAxVUwjgGHXeXBz8QFnoECAoQAQ"></a>Sign up to the <a href="https://newsletters.mamamia.com.au/outloud">Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter </a>for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 
Want to try our new exercise app? Click <a href="http://move.mamamia.com.au/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=youbeauty">here</a> to start a seven-day free trial of MOVE by Mamamia 
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at <a href="mailto:outloud@mamamia.com.au">outloud@mamamia.com.au</a>
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960" data-stringify-link="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960" data-sk="tooltip_parent">Send us a voice message</a>
Tell us what you really think so we can give you more of what you really want. Fill out <a href="https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7711442/Mamamia-Audience-Survey-March-April-2024/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-stringify-link="https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7711442/Mamamia-Audience-Survey-March-April-2024" data-sk="tooltip_parent">this survey</a> and you’ll go in the running to win one of five $100 gift vouchers.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram <a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en">@mamamiaoutloud</a>
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Emily Vernem &amp; Gemma Bath
Producer: Emeline Gazilas
Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach 
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

Taylor Swift & The Birthday Card Relationship Test

Subscribe to Mamamia

It’s been a rollercoaster week for Australian women with an outcry about our safety after the Westfield Bondi Junction tragedy was paired with the relief after the long-awaited verdict, the Bruce Lehrmann defamation case. We unpack.

Plus, is it hot in here? Why so many women are deep in romantasy novels involving faeries (yep... that's how the books are spelling it) and some very sexy scenes. Claire Murphy shares a sultry taste of what you're missing out on.

And, Em Ratajkowski is empowering women to change the narrative of divorce, by turning their engagement rings into a new piece of jewellery. So who does the jewellery "belongs to" and what other women have done post divorce?

The End Bits: 
Listen to the latest episode: Honestly, The Times We've Considered Leaving The Podcast
Read: 35 women on what they did with their rings after their divorce.
Read: ‘I just read Fourth Wing and now I understand why everyone is obsessed.’
Read: 'I was in a reading slump. One author turned it all around.'
Read Elfy's article: Presenting schizophrenia as though it satisfies our questions is deeply stigmatising
Read: Justice Lee finds Bruce Lehrmann raped Brittany Higgins.
Listen to The Quicky to keep up to date with your news 
Listen to The Spill for your daily dose of pop culture

If you or someone you know is in need of support contact help is available: 
Lifeline 13 11 14 
Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636
1800RESPECT  1800 737 732 

Sign up to the Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 

Want to try our new exercise app? Click here to start a seven-day free trial of MOVE by Mamamia 

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message

Tell us what you really think so we can give you more of what you really want. Fill out this survey and you’ll go in the running to win one of five $100 gift vouchers.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Claire Murphy and Emily Vernem

Producer: Emeline Gazilas

Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman

Audio Producer: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-stringify-link="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-sk="tooltip_parent">Subscribe to Mamamia</a>
It’s been a rollercoaster week for Australian women with an outcry about our safety after the Westfield Bondi Junction tragedy was paired with the relief after the long-awaited verdict, the Bruce Lehrmann defamation case. We unpack.
Plus, is it hot in here? Why so many women are deep in romantasy novels involving faeries (yep... that's how the books are spelling it) and some very sexy scenes. Claire Murphy shares a sultry taste of what you're missing out on.
And, Em Ratajkowski is empowering women to change the narrative of divorce, by turning their engagement rings into a new piece of jewellery. So who does the jewellery "belongs to" and what other women have done post divorce?
The End Bits: 
<ul>
<li>Listen to the latest episode: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/when-jessie-mia-holly-considered-leaving-the-podcast/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Honestly, The Times We've Considered Leaving The Podcast</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/divorce-rings/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">35 women on what they did with their rings after their divorce.</a></li>
<li>Read: ‘<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/fourth-wing-rebecca-yarros/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">I just read Fourth Wing and now I understand why everyone is obsessed.’</a></li>
<li>Read:<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/sarah-j-maas/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol"> 'I was in a reading slump. One author turned it all around.'</a></li>
<li>Read Elfy's article: <a href="https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/04/17/bondi-junction-killer-schizophrenia-mental-health-reporting/">Presenting schizophrenia as though it satisfies our questions is deeply stigmatising</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bruce-lehrmann-defamation-verdict/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Justice Lee finds Bruce Lehrmann raped Brittany Higgins.</a></li>
<li>Listen to <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-quicky/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The Quicky </a>to keep up to date with your news </li>
<li>Listen to <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-spill/">The Spill</a> for your daily dose of pop culture</li>
</ul>
If you or someone you know is in need of support contact help is available:  <a href="https://www.lifeline.org.au/?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5g_xb9MMAt9CLjxMl7D2mJwHQi1pd3OCfiNo43-lZG-Vu7le05jvqoaArtNEALw_wcB">Lifeline</a> 13 11 14  <a href="https://www.beyondblue.org.au/">Beyond Blue</a> 1300 22 4636 <a href="https://www.1800respect.org.au/">1800RESPECT </a> 1800 737 732 <a href="https://www.lifeline.org.au/?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5g_xb9MMAt9CLjxMl7D2mJwHQi1pd3OCfiNo43-lZG-Vu7le05jvqoaArtNEALw_wcB"></a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHzBCaKmtaLcRAOoazhCPA" data-ved="2ahUKEwj27PTb7amEAxVUwjgGHXeXBz8QFnoECAoQAQ"></a>Sign up to the <a href="https://newsletters.mamamia.com.au/outloud">Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter </a>for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 
Want to try our new exercise app? Click <a href="http://move.mamamia.com.au/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=youbeauty">here</a> to start a seven-day free trial of MOVE by Mamamia 
GET IN TOUCH:
Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at <a href="mailto:outloud@mamamia.com.au">outloud@mamamia.com.au</a>
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! <a href="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960" data-stringify-link="https://help.mamamia.com.au/en-US/send-a-podcast-voice-note-467960" data-sk="tooltip_parent">Send us a voice message</a>
Tell us what you really think so we can give you more of what you really want. Fill out <a href="https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7711442/Mamamia-Audience-Survey-March-April-2024/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-stringify-link="https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7711442/Mamamia-Audience-Survey-March-April-2024" data-sk="tooltip_parent">this survey</a> and you’ll go in the running to win one of five $100 gift vouchers.
Join our Facebook group <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/outlouders">Mamamia Outlouders</a> to talk about the show.
Follow us on Instagram <a href="https://www.instagram.com/mamamiaoutloud/?hl=en">@mamamiaoutloud</a>
CREDITS:
Hosts: Holly Wainwright, Claire Murphy and Emily Vernem
Producer: Emeline Gazilas
Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

Yes, We're Reading 'Fairy Smut' Out Loud

Subscribe to Mamamia

Australians are grieving the unthinkable acts that took place at Westfield Bondi Junction over the weekend. We discuss why this feels so close to home for so many of us. 

Plus, the verdict's in for Bruce Lehrmann's defamation case. But what's really at the heart of today's news is the ongoing pursuit of justice for Lisa Wilkinson and Brittany Higgins.

And, on a lighter note, Clare Stephens has gone deep into the chaotic rebranding of former Dance Moms star Jojo Siwa, or rather the "CFO of gay pop". Confused? Don't worry we'll fill you in.

The End Bits: 
Listen to last week's episode: The Best Career Advice We’ve Ever Received
Read Mia's article: This feels very, very close. Because it is.
Read: So this was an attack on women.
Read: The latest updates on the Bondi Junction Westfield attack.
Read: Justice Lee finds Bruce Lehrmann raped Brittany Higgins.
Listen to The Quicky to keep up to date with your news 
Listen to more of Gemma on True Crime Conversations
Listen to Clare on The Baby Bubble, Cancelled and But Are You Happy?

If you or someone you know is in need of support contact help is available: 
Lifeline 13 11 14 
Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636
1800RESPECT  1800 737 732 

Sign up to the Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 

Want to try our new exercise app? Click here to start a seven-day free trial of MOVE by Mamamia 

GET IN TOUCH:

Feedback? We’re listening. Send us an email at outloud@mamamia.com.au

Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message

Tell us what you really think so we can give you more of what you really want. Fill out this survey and you’ll go in the running to win one of five $100 gift vouchers.

Join our Facebook group Mamamia Outlouders to talk about the show.

Follow us on Instagram @mamamiaoutloud

CREDITS:

Hosts: Claire Murphy, Clare Stephens & Gemma Bath

Producer: Emeline Gazilas

Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman

Audio Producer: Leah Porges

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

<a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-stringify-link="https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol" data-sk="tooltip_parent">Subscribe to Mamamia</a>
Australians are grieving the unthinkable acts that took place at Westfield Bondi Junction over the weekend. We discuss why this feels so close to home for so many of us. 
Plus, the verdict's in for Bruce Lehrmann's defamation case. But what's really at the heart of today's news is the ongoing pursuit of justice for Lisa Wilkinson and Brittany Higgins.
And, on a lighter note, Clare Stephens has gone deep into the chaotic rebranding of former Dance Moms star Jojo Siwa, or rather the "CFO of gay pop". Confused? Don't worry we'll fill you in.
The End Bits: 
<ul>
<li>Listen to last week's episode: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/mamamia-out-loud/holly-mia-jessie-best-career-advice/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The Best Career Advice We’ve Ever Received</a></li>
<li>Read Mia's article: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/westfield-bondi-attack-heroes/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">This feels very, very close. Because it is.</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bondi-attack-women-targeted/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">So this was an attack on women.</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bondi-westfield-attack/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The latest updates on the Bondi Junction Westfield attack.</a></li>
<li>Read: <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/bruce-lehrmann-defamation-verdict/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Justice Lee finds Bruce Lehrmann raped Brittany Higgins.</a></li>
<li>Listen to <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-quicky/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The Quicky </a>to keep up to date with your news </li>
<li>Listen to more of Gemma on <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/true-crime-conversations/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">True Crime Conversations</a></li>
<li>Listen to Clare on <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/the-baby-bubble/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">The Baby Bubble</a>, <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/cancelled-podcast/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">Cancelled</a> and <a href="https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/but-are-you-happy/?utm_source=shownotes&amp;utm_medium=podcast&amp;utm_campaign=mmol">But Are You Happy?</a></li>
</ul>
If you or someone you know is in need of support contact help is available:  <a href="https://www.lifeline.org.au/?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5g_xb9MMAt9CLjxMl7D2mJwHQi1pd3OCfiNo43-lZG-Vu7le05jvqoaArtNEALw_wcB">Lifeline</a> 13 11 14  <a href="https://www.beyondblue.org.au/">Beyond Blue</a> 1300 22 4636 <a href="https://www.1800respect.org.au/">1800RESPECT </a> 1800 737 732 <a href="https://www.lifeline.org.au/?gad_source=1&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQjwlN6wBhCcARIsAKZvD5g_xb9MMAt9CLjxMl7D2mJwHQi1pd3OCfiNo43-lZG-Vu7le05jvqoaArtNEALw_wcB"></a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuHzBCaKmtaLcRAOoazhCPA" data-ved="2ahUKEwj27PTb7amEAxVUwjgGHXeXBz8QFnoECAoQAQ"></a>Sign up to the <a href="https://newsletters.mamamia.com.au/outloud">Mamamia Out Loud Newsletter </a>for all our recommendations and behind-the-scenes content in one place. 
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CREDITS:
Hosts: Claire Murphy, Clare Stephens &amp; Gemma Bath
Producer: Emeline Gazilas
Assistant Production: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Leah Porges
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

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