Scott Thompson (The Kids In The Hall) has the face of a Windsor and simply MUST play the Queen. And he will play the Queen SO WELL that you'll forget that Claire Foy even exists!
Scott is a true living legend and we were thrilled to have him on the podcast when he was in NYC performing his one-man show, "Après le déluge: The Buddy Cole Monologues." Aside from his iconic character, Matt & Bowen talk with him about being an openly gay comedian in the 80s & 90s, characters, the influence of Carol Burnett, Fantasy (Dune, Narnia, Lord Of The Rings), the original sin, Troye Sivan's "Bloom," and so much more!
Plus, Matt & Bowen ask the question: what if Sarah Jessica Parker dropped the J?
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I could not be more excited about this new addition to the Forever Dog podcast Network. They are our sisters, they are are judies. It's Sydney Washington and Marie Houston and the Unofficial Expert is now on Forever Dog Podcast Network. And you are gags. We're so so so thrilled, and you are gags. You are you are a listener? Yeah, I'm talking to you driving your car, you on the subway, you washing your goddamn dish. Oh god, you're really coming for the dishwashers, aren't you. Sydney and Marie are truly like two of the most charismatic, charming, funny people you can. I could listen to them talk all day. If you love sex and dating podcasts, comedy podcast or Forever Dog podcasts like Glass Culture is does an seek Treatment, You're going to love the Unofficial Expert. So basically what happens on the Unofficial Expert is Sydney and Marie will sit down with comedians and you know, people have notes who claimed to be experts in very specific fields like flirting, porn, daddy issues, online dating, cookouts, stalking. I went on and I was the Hollywood Expert and it's just they just shoot the ship about these things that they're experts in. I went on, I was the travel expert. It was a completely aimless conversation that still managed to be compelling. We love aimless, We love aimless. Sidney and Marie are unapologetic, exciting, incredibly funny and you need to get to know them and they're hilarious, honest comedy asap. Yeah, you probably heard their episode on Lost Culture Recess. It was so fun, so fun, and I think maybe we should even do some crossover episodes with that, maybe trade up. So subscribe to the Unofficial Expert right now at Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh hi, it's Bowen here and I have to have to have to tell you about our next I don't think so many live show here in New York as part of the Brooklyn Comedy Festival on September two at seven pm at Brooklyn Bazaar, one Green Point Avenue in Brooklyn. It's gonna be so fun. Uh. The unofficial theme of this one is legends all we're doing some of we're doing all vet's basically people who have done it before, who have really defined the form for what it is it's gonna be so fun. We're so excited. Fifty comedians and here's a first look at the lineup. We've got your allegiends, We've got your Larry Owen's, your na Fit Brigas. You're Catherine Cohen's, Aaron Jackson's, Julio Torres, is Metro Jahres, Peter Smith, Francesca Ramsey her first time doing it live. You cannot miss this, oh and Cola Scola, Dwayne Perk and Sarah Toolemas Pat Regan daw It's gonna be so so so fun again. That's September twenty two at seven pm at Brooklyn Bazaar as part of the Brooklyn Comedy Festival. Can't wait, see you there forever? Look may Oh, I see you? Why why? And look over there? How is that nulture? Yeah? Goodness? Wells ding don lost culturestas calling and look at us recording on on Day the Lord's Day, I asked HPJ Hot producer jam I said, do you normally come in on sandcy Goes? Yeah, basically you come in every day, don't you. We gotta we gotta do like a little I don't know, lifestyle clinic with with Joe because he's got to like claim the time for himself and not Maybe this work a holic. Maybe we need to do a whole Patreon series which is the life of Joe HPJ and just really so the listeners can really get to see the glimpse behind the man. Yes, behind the hot facade. And I want to say, your desk looks fucking incredible. It's a Marie Condo dream. You clean to that desk You got in your hands and knees, didn't you? Is that a f I haven't even seen that for just been there for just been there all along, but you couldn't see with all the clutter. Well, um, but first of all, Terrible of New York magazine loves hot producer content. This is hot producer content right here. Nothing but he's saying nothing. It's okay, but just everyone, if you want to give Joe a little bit of Um, I don't know advice on on how to sort of like just just just self care. Maybe I don't know. We're in this moment now, what does it need advice? He's got a thing in front of him that separates papers. What is that? It's it's a it's a letter separator. Well, that's incredible. I've never said anything like this letter separator separates one letter from all the other ones. Unbelievable. Joe is the function, Well, you're a maniac. We have them. We have like a really really really honorable it's a big day, and it's a day. He's laughing, he's chuckling, chuckling along and it's like you have you sounds just like I'm the next Prime Minister, kung Fu master, but or you know, horrifics. And here's the thing. I was gonna say two things. It's a big day, first ever. Reasons why we have this guest yes to We're gonna go see this guest show later on. Yes, now say the title because I'm stupid and can't. Oh, bitch after you please say it. She got it pretty close. It's pretty even myself before. How many times did I get it wrong before I got it right? Eighteen eighteen? Number about d sweet? You just want to say one thing. I want a break and eyebust friend. Yeah, yeah, my best friend is doing the monologues at askat tonight and wonderful and then we're gonna do that and then we're gonna go say deluge the Buddy Cole Monologs at Joe's Pub. He just finished a great run of shows there this summer. Hopefully it comes back. Um, but he's he's an old Joe's Pub Rez Joe's Pub, Hope, Old jud Pub Joe Jo He's God, he's just really kind of stood on. He's he's an honorable sketch comedy legend. Let's just go ahead and say that from the kids in the hall, from kids in the hall. Um, and uh, you know I would say, we'll talk about this. We you and I wouldn't be doing any of what we would be we would be doing without him, I truly know, without this honorable one, Without this honorable one. And he's also celebrating the rerelease of his book, Buddy Babylon, Yes, Buddy Babylon, the Autobiography. You know, the release release, there's a release date. I think they did it at stone Wall. That's actually rule of culture number six, you know, release when there's a re release. Absolutely and a please check out his album. Not a fan. Uh, it is our honor to welcome the honorable Scott Thompson very much. Well, it's an honor to be here. Now here's the thing, so look, growing up, I had like Saturday Night Live in mad TV. I didn't really have kids in the hall, and in America, that wasn't really part of like my my like I guess media diet. But I've become familiar with it recently, and I have to say I'm kind of happy I didn't grow up with it because I think I'd be overwhelmed right now. Really, yeah, I think I would. I think I really would. I think you're definitely honorable. Scott Is. I mean, Scott is just is. I don't know, just accept this is I is when you is, and you know, it's just just just being able to just I don't know, see Buddy Cole sort of unfold and sort of develop over time during a time of your Andrew Dice Clays and you already Murphy's just saying like horrendous things during the specter of Aid's like, I don't know, it's it's a it is it is a significant sort of little locus in queer comedy. I think, So, I don't know, it's it's it is an honor to have you. You're so so you're in town and then are you going back to l A after this? I am or do you split your time between what l A and No Toronto? In Toronto for years and then I went moved back to about a year and a half ago, just before Trump was elected. I went, oh, it's gonna get a hot down there. This is gonna be fun. I think I'm needed so like like the Batman's sigle, and went out the BC was the BC Buddy called like a Martini glass, it's the silver dollar, like yes, yes, So now do you think that Buddy has kind of stayed the same, Yeah, I mean the whole, the whole one of the premises of the show, it's twenty five years, it's all about it's twenty three years. It's monologue's written from the end of the Kids in the Hall they lose refers to the kids in the Hall, which means flood, so it's the flood. And then it's afterwards when Buddy was like tossed into the wilderness. And so I kept writing, and I've always performed. But you know, so they're like monologues from nothing's ever been on television. And but the whole premises the world changes drastically all the way around him, but he doesn't budget inch, you know, and people say, how does Buddy change? I got none? Why would have perfect character change? That he was actual from the DA and even like and also in terms of comedy, like it's almost like a hard and fast ruling comedy that comic characters don't really change, they don't really learn, and that's part of what makes them so joyful to watch, because human beings love to see people make the same mistakes over and over again. Or with Buddy, they just love to see Buddy make the right choice over and over again. Yeah, but no, he hasn't. I looked, he I look different, but the clothes of the same. You know, he still wears the you know he has he found a timeless fashion and he's stuck to it. Does smoke still know, But there's a point in the show when in ninet when Buddy, when Buddy gets by, gets a bar. Yeah he stops, but that was back before. But there is a period in the show when Buddy takes up in Buddy tests negative for AIDS and he decides, well, then I'm let's start smoking again. So so I do start smoking again the show. Then I then I take and then I quit a gain on on stage. Were you involved heavily in the Buddy fashions came from you, all right, every every single monologue had to have an outfit that was kind of a visual equivalent of what he was speaking about. So they were always signifiers in the outfits. I mean, you know, I tried to basically say, you know, the basic shape of Buddy is, you know, the pants and the shot no socks, you can't wear socks, you know, and and the jacket that's smoking jacket. But we we went really far, and maybe in a way we kind of went too far in some some of the outfits, Like I mean, there was one modeled on the girl in the back of export a cigarettes that was a great look. And then there was one where he had his nipples, kind of the nipples. Nipples. I was always looking for an excuse to showcase Buddies. Nipple was something I worked very, very careful closely with Hillary Corbett, who was our costume designer, and I think the best thing we ever made together, what she ever made, was the Buddy Cole outfit UM Girls of Summer when he when he becomes the coach of the Lesbians UM Softball. Once again, there was nipple, but that was a great. I mean yes, so we were very involved. And that's one of the things I like to do with this show. Once we we put it into the shop for a few months, I want to give it a bit more like I give it some visual excitement. Yeah, it has visual excitement, but I would like to I'd like it to suddenly change for each monologue, cause there's ten monologues, and maybe have little things on the outfit to kind of reflect the time around him, because looking at him, you're gonna go, what the funk year are we act It's like it's it's it's it's the year timeless, but isn't itzy? Because I was watching a bunch of them again today and I was just like, you could see guys like thinking nothing of it wearing these things. The style really does hold up. And also just like the kind of like camp of it, like the monolog that you did in the cemetery and you have to sort of vampiric, the incredible hair, incredible and you look just like an actress. And I can't any actress like I want to say Catherine Howard, that's wrong, but like, but like there's another actress that's like, let's say miss pola, but just the hair, the moment, the cape moment, like the open thing. I've lived for it. Well, when you say that Buddy is timeless, is unchanging as constant, how does that square with the way that you know you change as a human being? Like is that? I don't know? How does that negotiator? How do I have to I have to separate the two, like I I've got to make sure that I don't inject too much into him. I mean, of course it's it's it's a part of me, but you know, I don't want There's things that Buddy might say that I might go I don't really agree with that, but it's a character. I have to let the characters breathe. I have to let him say what he has to say. And I know that I write what he says. But there is a part of my brain when I'm when I'm Buddy. It's weird. He's like smarter than me, you know. So I was watching an interview that you did and and reading an interview that you did, and you said, you know, he's the smartest person in the room, and I was like, yeah, but that doesn't feel like vain at all to say this is just like an extension of you that and and it's almost like, yes, when you allow yourself to write a character, it's like these things that you don't even that wouldn't even occur to you in life, do occur to you. And it does seem like another person that is you. Yeah, like and all the roadblocks that that that I find in my life and all the ways that I, like, um, you know, trip myself up, he just doesn't worry about though. I Mean, he's a guy that was born in a very very difficult time, born into war. Basically my generation is we're like screw screw. I mean, we're just we all have PTSD, were just But Buddy was born into this kind of like cauldron and this effeminate man you know, from the from the country, from a rural area. I mean I really know his life and then to but he knew who he was from day one. He was never in the closet, you know, he just he emerged fully formed and no matter what happened to him, no matter what kind of bullshit people through at him, he was always like it just water off a duck survived. He's he's a survivor. He's absolutely resilient and there's nothing that really will stop him and he and that's that he's like the best of me. Yeah yeah, yeah, And he earned that and proxy earned being able to really say whatever it is. That's the thing right now, Like I was saying to Robin my direct, we're always he's always saying to me, You're gonna get in trouble, Like when is when are the s j w is gonna come after you? Because my show is a pull. I mean it, just you. I don't spare anyone, and Buddy just tramples in every taboo everything you're not supposed to say. And for a white man at my age that I'm allowed to say this. No white guys can say this anymore. But I'm a gay man, and I'm not just a gay man like like you guys. I'm an older gay man. So I'm a war survivor. Like you look at me and you might go, I don't like that, but you go, he's missing a leg. You gotta listen to grants. And so it's a kind of a for comedy today, which is so tiptoey. Everyone's tiptoey, and I just go, oh, I don't care if there's quick Sam swimming. But then so when Robin asks you that, I mean, is your answer like, well, it doesn't. That's besides the point, Like it's not even about Okay, I wouldn't. I kind of want to get it over with, but then I might not even have to because people and the moment and the thing is, it's a superpowering comedy today because everyone's so delicate. And I've I've earned it, and it is true. It's like it's just I'm a war van. I've earned it. So I don't care if you go. You can't say that I just did. And it's just a joke. It's just and and it just choke. So starting out, when you started out and you really were the first you know, gay sketch comedian, well comment, there was no one anywhere. So what's the response women but not men? Right right, very very different. I totally agree with you, not even I totally agree. Now, what's the response from other comics when you start to, you know, have success in the hall? And I began, yeah it's ugly. Yeah. And see when I was very young, even before I met the kids in the hall, you know, I went to acting school. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a serious actor and I wanted to be funny on talk shows. I never wanted to be a comedian. I didn't think it was possible. A front comedian talks about his life. I can't talk about my life. Who's gonna want to hear it? I mean, I came out. I spent my whole life fighting the urge to kill myself, basically thinking that I was the worst thing on earth. That when I finally had the courage to do it, suddenly you're hit by this this plague that tells you that everything society says about you is true. So it's just a double whammy. So I just thought, I can't. And the and the homophobia of the eighties and nineties, it was, I mean, you can't. It was breathtaking, and I really thought that, oh it's gonna and and this is what people have to know, that society can snack, can flip back thirty years on a dime. You have to be very careful, you mean, things can just switch like that. And that's what happened. So I wanted to be. I thought I'm gonna be. So I did try to do stand up comedy, and I went three times to open my um open mics, and you know, I was so terrified that I wouldn't even perform as myself. I performed as a manny coon who was I actually my first character, who's a very masculine man, like a like a like a bull, like a big alpha male artist. And I talked, you know, in a real masculine way, and I drink and I smoke. I really had to cover myself up, and even so the comedians could still tell that I was getting not went on on stage, but backstage before I put on my you know, my male mantle, and they were so evil to me. And I remember they, you know, they would this is you know, they introduced me as they said, our next comedian just gave us all a blow job backstage. I wasn't even out, so they immediately telegraphed to the audience, this is a faggot. And in those days, every comic, every comic had a faggy voice that they did. Every stand up club comedian would pick if there was a solo male, he always became Lance or Bruce, those were the two gay names, and they would single him out. And so every show is like that. The homophobia was just literally everywhere in the audience with the comedians. And then the second time I didn't do well. The second time I did a little better, and then the third time, this is what happened. I the comedian introduced me, and after uh my set, he wiped the mic and said, I'm wiping the aids, germs all Jesus Christ. And you know what what's crazy is I bet at the time you weren't even like fuck that. You were just kind of like, well, that's what they do, that's what they said. I was both because because the thing about you, Scott is that you dug your heels even exactly, and because that night that was a terrible and that was the last time I'd stand up comedy until many years later, and then the world changed. But I remember being called a faggot by the Someone said shut up, faggot, and I lost it and I jumped out off the stage and I knocked their beers off and I got into it, and I just realized, after these instants, I just can't do the energy. There's no possible way I can do this. And I just met the kids in the hall and I didn't even really know that I was capable of doing characters. I thought I was going to be a movie star. I wasn't gonna do character. But I met them, and I thought it was love at first sight, and I thought this is my future. And I realized, maybe in a subconscious way, that I could bury myself in this team like a hockey line up, and I could be a great player. But I can only do this in a team right now because the world will not accept that. And so once I met them, that was it. I shut the door on the other side, lovely. Was there any sort of I've always been curious, was there any sort of thought as too, because I feel like with me and Matt, we have this fun little cattery of queer comedians now and we're so lucky to have that group in that and I'm thrilled for you, you know, thank you, but just you too, not the other I forgot their names, forgot their name, but it's best. But then we we do share space with like a straight comedian group, like there is this level of switching up our code a little bit where it's like the behaviors change. And so was there ever that level with with with the kids in the hall where it was at the even the kids in the hall, you know, everybody. We're all on a journey. People change, not like they just said, yeah, we'll bring in. It wasn't like that. It was it was a process. So then how would you pitch the things like I want to do I want to be Queen Elizabeth and drag I want to do Buddy Cole, I want to be a secretary, you know, like well it was it was. It was a gradual thing. The first person that wanted me to be a member of the group was Mark McKinney. He saw me perform theater sports and I and I was like a real wild man at the time. I would wear pants suits that would be slipped down to here so I behalf naked. I'd wear strands of pearls. I glue cigarette butts to my ears. I was a weird combination of everything. And I was openly gay. That's when three nobody was and I just didn't give a ship and they would we would do theater sports. I was on the theater sports team, and they would always um, if you do it's something that they thought was untoward or you know, like too provocative, they would give you a zero anytime anything gay came up. That was immediately unacceptable. So I was constantly being zeroed in all the residents. But they Mark saw that and went, wow, that guy's a that's a punk and so um and he was punk, yes, and so so he brought me in. But they were not The others were not a board, and you know, there was a lot of hazing that went on. I can just let me just leave it at that, and there was some ugly things that occurred. But over time and when I basically I gave I did Buddy Cole, I did fran I did Manny, and I guess they started to realize he's got something. I did monologue at the time, but I was very out of control. I had no control and I didn't know how to be in a group. And then but I had a bag of wigs and dresses and they had already started to play women, but very differently. But once I came aboard that really that really because for me it was for them, was a huge deal for me, like it's gay man. I'm like, it's natural for me to like play a woman play a man. I don't see any I just I don't really see the big difference of course, half my characters are women. That's going, that's natural, and so that that that kind of they took that on in a way, and I in a strange way are their acceptance of homosexuality and um, cross dressing and all the rest of the things that we did became a punk thing, a punk thing, you know what I mean, Like it became like like a fuck you. And and two guys that were so home it was like like they would kiss each other and that was a really fuck you to two men, to to basic society. And so they realized that this was a kind of a way to rebel and and so but then once I was a boar, it was about six months. One night they took me out. They they said, they said they made up a song. They sang me a song and said you're in the kids in the hall, and that was it. And that was it. And I took the key, I swallowed it, and known was ever getting back in again. And I knew that that was it. I was like I was blowing that entrance up because I was no one was getting it, and I knew this was it for life. And so and we're still together and we're still talking a reboot, and you know, so it is exciting, exciting, but just the fact that you had to be in this proving ground for a while is you know, and it it still exists, of course, And you know what, I think, there's like, who was I just I was just saying yesterday I got on the phone because someone wanted to talk to get my take on the hand a goad speak situation, and I like calling it a situation. It's better than calling it a comedy special. Well, it's become this whole thing now where it's like, you know, I just feel like there's there's the special and you can have your thoughts on the special. Everyone has their thoughts on the special. But then it's so funny to me that like that there's this whole thing of like, well, you know, she shouldn't even be up there on the stage. It's like, Okay, you don't like it, you don't like it, But for her to get up there and be able to do what she's doing, like, it's harder for her than you straight white dudes can ever conceive of it, because you've never had to have a second thought about walking into a room and taking up all the space as yourself whereas there's everyone else in the world, and it's just like it's so it's so different, like to walk in and have have to filter yourself and it takes such a long time. It's just it's such a you know, so I'm not surprised to hear that even though these guys seem so open minded, it was still a process. And because they are their man, they're straight man, their products of their time, you know, they could you know, you have to let people. Everyone's like on a journey. You can't, you know, you know, I mean, people shouldn't be judged by the way they were ten years ago. For years ago, that's society. And most people just follow the you know, what everyone's society tells them to do, and they didn't know any better. And and you know, but I have not they they we all learned together and I had things to learn as well. But I think what helped me was I come from a family of five boys, so I understood how males behave in a in a group, and I know how to I guess I'm a fighter, and that was very important. And I mean it might not be policuarly correct to say it, but I think one of the things that made them except me was they knew that if it got into a scrap, I could hurt all of them very badly. I feel that I could. Oh I think you'd be like we would you go ratchy would Yeah? I would. Oh. Gay rage once it's unleashed, I'm sorry. Oh, it's the worst. It's the worst because it's it's even because these people, these people there, they their rage is so close to the surface and they love it and they nurture it, we bury it. So when it comes roaring up, it's like a vein of lab that's come from the center of the earth. Their vein of lava is just under the surface, like right under Oh look at this piece of loan. Look there's that lava right under it, said loan. But you know, but I think gay rage is it is a terrifying thing. I actually I've been writing characters recently again, and what I'm realizing is it's easiest for me to operate in a place of anger, and it's actually like well not actually know, not any strong emotion. Like a few of the things I've been writing lately, I'm like, well, I can't do these on a set together because everyone's screaming, everyone's mad and pissed, and I was just like, what is that? I think, what is that like? Sort of like I think maybe it's a couple of things. It's observing that kind of like very available, like masculinity in the world earlier. Absolutely, and I think with gay men particularly, I think one of the reasons why I've had why I've struggled with my temper and why I have such a close relationship to rage, one of the things is I made this very terrible connection as a child between rage and masculinity, and I felt so you know that, I felt so demasculineized that I thought, Wow, I can't be a complete faggot because I'm scary to fight. Yes, yes, which is not a great connection. That's that's that's the MATHO. You know what's normalized. You're so insane. This is normalized. The thing of screaming at a television set because the sports team you do you like, like, that's true, normalize normal What a crazy behave? Don't you scream at the TV when the raw? Yes? I didn't always do. Let me tell you something. I don't care if she deserves it or not. If lady Gaga doesn't win this year, I'm furious. I want to burn the whole Oscars down. Lady Gaga should win Best Act. Have you seen it yet? No, No, I've seen the trailer that we're talking about. I'm saying it's because I know that she's close to the queer and you know what, this isn't another thing. And I want to get your take on this too. Did you ever find that, like it was almost harder to root for the people that were closest to you because the spaces that were the SCEs. The more I love someone the more the more difficult it is for me to tell them that or to praise them, because I was raised in a way with my parents that you know that it spoils people, that if you get too much praise, it will spoil you. And so it's hard for me. I've learned. I've tried very hard because I was going I don't want to. I think they did a great job. I don't want to tell them because I don't get soft. I'm specifically talking about gay men though, Oh gay men are the worst. I'm just gonna say that a blanket statement. We're the worst to each other, just terrible, We've had such a good experience because our our our friends in the New York queer comedy kind of we're very supportive. But then you go on to l a those games are not supportive. But I mean, this is the thing. I think there are changes happening, but you guys know, as gay comics, we still have a ceiling. There's no they're not one of us has become a star. There has never been a gay mail, openly gay mail comedy star. Absolutely ever, there are no no one on Netflix never and I and one of the reasons is us because we do not support other gay man, not unless they're in drag or they're a prostitute, a hustler or porn stark hot even whatever, because we worship dumb and hot and young. But if your talent, no, because every gay man thinks they're a star, right, I'm like, I'm funny too. No, you're not bitch, And I didn't mean to say bitch, but I just want the favorite word. But I mean, but you know, like people people assume they go you're you're shows must be filled with gay man. I go hardly a couple like I have. You know, I have a tiny gay following, but very small. It's overwhelmingly straight people. But we don't support ourselves. So how can a community that doesn't support, that isn't supported by its community ever supposed to reach that level? Like all we do is support women, like we just will not go see a male gay mail make us laugh, only a woman. And I think that's kind of tragic, is you know? It's not even a thing of like there's not enough. There's not enough support to go around, because the women deserve the support that we give them. But also they got Scott Scott right, got enough, you know what? You know what, No, don't top it up. You're filled to the brim, you know what. In fact, I see your meniscus, I see you. You know Daddy Zealand we thought she was over, No, she was bad. She's bad and good for her. I'm just kidding. I did you mentioned this? You mentioned may actually one thing before It sounds like I've completely sunk into bitterness, which the idea that I am starting to see gay man coming. There's always been a few gay men, gay men of my generation and below well who followed the kids in the hall. But now I'm starting to see young ones like you guys that are coming, and that thrills me to death because I'm like going, maybe they're going, maybe this generation might be able to not hate themselves so deeply. I want you to know that that it's changing. I I want you to know from me, from my heart that it's changing. And I and I know, and you know what I mean, Like I love like all of our friends, and I think everyone's so talented, and you know, it's just and that doesn't that's not lost on us because we because we have like in years past, like come up against that thing where it's like, oh, we're not getting that support it from within our own community. But well, I hope, I do hope that now it is changing and we'll be told and we'll be told things like, well, you know, we couldn't get so and so and so we asked this person and they couldn't do it, and and you know, then we asked you and of course there's only the one spot in this cast for one of you, and things like that, and people don't understand like what they're really saying, or they think that we know it and so they can they can. It's just like it's this idea of like you know when you do these things, when you set up these situations, we go back to each other and we commiserate about it and you're actually the joke and it will turn, it will it will change. I think that you're right. We still have a little bit have that disease of um, this this thing of unless unless a gay man is in drag, they cannot become a star. No man, no one is out there finger waving for I mean, I guess James Adman brand are just not. And it's like I go, if if Buddy wore a dressed I'd be a superstar. Who I mean? And wait, he has, he has, he's worn, he's worn. A big caller. Hey, y'all, it's bowen here. I want to tell you a little bit about care Of, the service that I am loving right now. Care Of as a monthly subscription vitamin service that delivers completely personalized vitamin and supplement packs right to your door, and uh, just the whole on boarding process is really special, especially their online quiz. Careffs fun online quiz asks you about your diet, health goals, and lifestyle choices and takes only five minutes to find out what vitamins and supplements you specifically need. I took the online quiz. It was so easy, peasy, And did you know that people fall short of f d A recommended guidelines for at least one vitamin or nutrient. So take care of his quiz and get the vitamins you need to get back on track and reach your health goals. Track your progress with a careff app and earn rewards when you remember to take your vitamins. 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That's take care of dot Com promo code ding dong d I n g d o n g. So please, please please go to take care of dot Com. Use promo code d I n g d O n g to get off your first month of personalized Cara vitamins and uh live the Bow and Yang CAREV lifestyle. I don't know what MAT's doing, Matts Matt's you know what Matt's vitamins or our chicken fingers, and he is having a blast eating chicken fingers every day. CAREV will eventually expand into the chicken finger market. I'm sure now, I okay. You mentioned this in a Village Voice interview recently, and this I think I agree with you. It's it's real. Well, let me just say this. You said, um, I never found something along the lines of I never thought that I always knew that being the first to do something was was never gonna get me the attention or the money or whatever. It's it's always the third person. Yeah, seconds, the real loser position because third gets the money and the attention and the and the and the race first is nothing like you know, you look at the Right Brothers. There was something before the Right Brothers. There was someone that did there's always the way. But at the time, maybe when I said that, I was pretending to be philosophical about it and pretending that I knew it was going to be like that, but I did not. At the time, I thought, oh my god, once people get a load of what I'm doing, and once the gay community sees what I'm doing, I'm my feet are never gonna touch the ground. I'm gonna be carried on a litter by gay man. Every gay man I want to sleep, we will just go what do you want to do to me? And they chake my arm. It just didn't happen, and it was like such a huge fall from me, and it broke my heart, Like I went, not only did it not happen, the opposite happened, and that broke my heart. In fact, not only did people not support, but there was this concerted effort I really believe to stop me and and a lot of gay men doing it. And that broke my heart. See. But then like just I read that quote and I and that that upset me in this way where I was like, I want to correct I don't have the power or whatever the influence to do this, but I want to correct that somehow. Like I like we were telling people, we were telling our close friends like, oh, you've Scott Thompson on this Sunday and they lit up there like, oh my god, what a huge deal. Like they're like, at least at least you always will have I think you should be you don't have that respect? Yeah, I think I think you can like dine on on that for that. And I'll tell you the other thing. It's not like, you know, I didn't. It's not like I was broke or anything, you know. And I've managed worked on television, I've worked and I've coppled together a career and I've done whatever I had to do. As I thought, why can't I go to the next level? And I and I'll be honest, there was a period in my life when I was consumed by bitterness consumed and then I got sick. Man, I went, this isn't killing me. You think it was part of it? Absolutely? Wow, I absolutely do so and so now and now it's true, like I'm going and I meant, but when I was young, and I'm with Paul Baldy, who's like, you know, when you're when you're an old man, maybe that's when people will get and I'm not old yet, but I'm you know, I'm not young anymore. But I thought, yeah, maybe I have to wait, but I didn't want to wait. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Now here's another question. It's like, of course there's this jealousy aspect. You know, gay men, like I think a lot of like what makes us us is, you know, we duly look up to women. We look up to these actresses and prop stars and glamorous singers and divas and icons, and when we see that one of us gets close to that, I think, of course there is that thing of jealousy. But do you also think that a part of it is protection and wanting to be like, well, that he's going to tell that story and then everyone's gonna think that's all of our stories. Yes. Absolutely, It's like I think a lot of the reason many people in the gay community did not like me and continue did not like me, was that it was a sense of like, oh, he's he's spilling secrets, he's telling about the darkness, he's you know and everybody and I think that, and they're like, how dare he? He's making us look bad? And so they didn't. They didn't like that. It's hard to have a sense of humor about yourself when you've been attacked by I guess like the straight man for so long. So then they see like, uh, look, he's proving them right, and they because we can't see ourselves as these comedic creatures. And I think that's one of the reasons I think gay men love female comics so much, is because female comics feed our delusion that we're fabulous. They'll see all of our dysfunction and our ugliness and go, it's so fabulous that they're cheating on each other, How fabulous that they overdosed or whatever. And I mean they feed our delusion. It's an external validation, yes, and they're all, you're all so fabulous boys, Like when pathy my my gaze or whatever, it's like, you know what, I mean like and and and I don't do that. I'm like, no, we're it's screwed up, maybe more screwed up than anywhere. And I don't take any prisoners. And I don't spare I'm not gonna like spare gay people because you know, like, well, I don't want people to know how screwed up we are, because that's not what comedy does. Comedy is about approaching the darkness, bringing stuff out into the light and letting people look at it. That's the kind of comedy that I love. And God's not that scary. So but you got I mean, for a gay man in my general what the darkness was, it was definitely the nasgool We're at the door, like on the list. Look you're not on the list. Look. Uh there was this I mentioned this. Uh, I mean this might have been when we talked about crazy jations on patron But there's this article that came out, uh this this right up, this whatever think piece that said it's time to forgive the Joy Luck Club And it was all about how for twenty five years, the Joy Luck Club was the only thing that because Asian people turn their backs on it. They were like, this does not represent us. This, This is not who we are. This is such a specific experience that does not represent the entire exactly. And this is the thing about being first, or being the only thing that's representative of a community or or an experiences that you cannot be saddled with all of this expectation and this responsibility, and um, god, like it sucks that it just there always has to be I'm not saying that this was you, but there always has to be that one thing that is the pincushion for everyone else's bullshit. Like I think, I think that's what we have to sort of get past. And like I think in order to write this, like we have to just sort of like honor the like the like like those things in the past. And I don't know, and it's a conscious decision to change that way of thinking, you know what I mean. This thing that represents you is not attacking your killing. It doesn't occupy one space. And I think if there's something that's good about like the way that the entertainment industry has expanded in social media and all these like different kind of spaces, is now there is so much room and so many platforms, you gotta fill it. With something and and there's only so many of these like voices that have filled the you know, previously small spaces. And now that's like if you want, if you want gay content, there are networks for that where that where that is obviously they should be on every network. But you know, like it's something I don't know, it's it's it's a mind funck speaking of speaking of that, sort of speaking of sort of this fox the mind, the mind speaking of content. I guess well, we we ask all of our guests this question, which is what was the culture that made you say culture is for me? Matt? Do you want to explain that? The questions? Okay, so this is um, you know, this is the It could be a movie, it could be a piece of music, could be a particular person in culture, or just like you know, just your some own things, an upbringing that culturally made you to say, Okay, this is who I am. I'm stepping into culture as me and it was this defining thing that made me that way? You mean, like, what do you mean? I like for people that have different kinds of answers to this question, For example, on any given deck, it's say growing up on Lyle and that really formed me, or I could say, um, I really got obsessed with the reality show Survivor and that made me the person I am, like whatever things like, it's it's a broad question, it's very broad. But even like were you even like a Canadian upbringing? For example, right y, yeah, yeah, what about you and your Canadian upbringing? Was there anything specifically Canadian? Specifically Canadian? It was it was Selene for me because it was it was going to Notre Dame in in Montreal and being and like going on field trips to that church and really it affected us to having a teacher well of course, but having in Quebec. It was like but on field trips, like the teacher would be like this is where Selene got married, and we'd be like wow, oh like that was that just reminded me of Ada. Seeing here you did fucking amazing interview. I had some incredible jokes about that. Twink really the first twink, first twink? Really, the first twin first? I guess River Phoenix was the first twink. Are the first twink in the contemporary man? You know what? You can go back through twinks throughout absolutely James Twink Cavagio paintings exactly. Hercules and Newt was the first centaur, yes, you know, and then David the Finer. Yeah, I guess, you know, I guess when I comedy, I would say Carol Burnett maybe Flip Wilson. Those were my two totems of common footballs made me laugh like crazy. And he played Geraldine and he played female and male character. I loved him and you connected with that just so with Geraldine and Carol Burnett, those are my too. It wasn't even stand ups really because I I wasn't. Really I didn't. I didn't have stand up albums or anything like that. It wasn't even like a music. It was actually books for me, books I get from me. I'm a huge reader. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe would have been another one Narnia favorite book in the series. Um, Prince Caspian okay, yeah, kind of like I think Prince Canspy was a first literary twink, Yeah, literary twink power first time, Tom Sawyer, Tom Sawyer, Prince Tasman was the first Christian allegory right right? Yeah? Who else the twink Huck Finn or Tom Sawyer, Tom Sawyer Okay, Tom Sawyer is the first piece of white trash. Hot hot white trash, hot white trash. Yeah, absolutely hot white trash, hot white trash. Didn't j T T play Tom Sawyer, Justin Taylor, Jonathan Taylor, Thomas another twink, another nineties twink and Finn. Yeah, yeah, tried to sex up the Huckleberry Finn novel. You don't need to. It's all there. I got a revisit. I reread every couple of years. God, wait, what are your like? What are your big revisiting books? I mean, how often do you reread something? Not a lot, but that's definitely I do go back to the Narnia books, which is you know, and I've read Lord of the Rings three times. Um, I've read three times a real nerd. So then yeah, you love your fantasy, love a science and to see the chrysalids like sort of stuff. You're a star Wars queen. No see look Skywalker, that's a twink, very much a twink. Yeah, I dig aus. I don't like twinks. I found him bland for me. It was all but Harrison Ford, you know, I always like man like. I was like Liz Taylor, I like all my men forty Yeah, you know what I mean. She's always been forty. He's still forty to this day. She liked man at forty when she was twenty. She like man that were forty when she was sixty. I'm not saying I'm Liz Taylor, but said I love that's what you said. Okay, I did say. You said say I might say, look look at me. I can't. I can't hide my violet eyes. Your oscar for Butterfield Day, you brought it with you. Yeah, it's here, it's on the table. Everyone knows. Everyone knows. This one's bullshit. It's not the one I deserved it for. Oh, you can make an argument about that. Turners out there making that argument. Interview interview, talk about like a gay icon. That's when we forgot. The children are forgotten, Kathleen. Have we need to remind them? We do? We do? We need to remind them. She reminds you she's also just a a rabbit. People, come on, have some respect. Respect. Now. That's interesting that you mentioned Philip Wilson, because I feel like, and it's interesting that you been forgotten. He's well, yes, that and even I don't I would admit that I don't have that familiarity with Flip right with Fhip Wilson. But the fact that you mentioned the drag aspect and that you and that like that goes like you compare that to you, maybe the way that the other kids in the hall conceived of drag is maybe more of like a Monty Python. Maybe you were probably the one to elevate that out of this, like, well, yeah, I didn't think if it's a caricature. And I think from the day when we were like and I don't know if it was really me that I think they all kind of when they first started doing women, they all wanted to just play women as women. And you know, I'd love to claim that for myself. And I think maybe maybe helped them deep in it, like I helped them in a way maybe like let go of that kind of like masculine. I gotta like, you know, like a movie like like Too Long Food for example, you know, like the way that Wesley Snipes telegraphs thes with his guns that remember I'm still a man, or like we we didn't want any of that telegraphs and we wanted to like completely submerge ourselves into our characters. And uh, but definitely I think we're not like Monty Python. We are very much like Monty Python. But in terms of the portrayal of women, we took it further. There were we didn't have screechy voices. I mean, they used to do some women that were pretty damn real, but most of the women were more caricature and um we were. And when we first got on television, our our first wardrobe person who did not work out all of our female costumes. She tried to make them like all like like silly, like big tips, dragging. We were like and we were fewer. We're like, no, we're not doing it. We go and then she we we'd work on something. Oh that's she goes, it's boring and looking. Yeah, it's a boring woman. Yeah, this is not and this is it's a real woman, or it's the portrayal women are women aren't fabulous? A woman that you would see on the street like oh yeah. And that was a profound I mean that was one of the greatest journeys that we all took, that journey into like gender, like, wow, this is fun. Do you think that had you not been on the group, maybe they wouldn't have got there. You might not gotten as far. They wouldn't have gone as far, because with you, it's like secretary sketch. I feel like Bruce was. It was a Bruce, you and Bruce and Bruce. Bruce put on some sort of feminine affect, which is fine, Like it worked for the characters. For you, like you don't you didn't really change like Kathy anything. I used my voice. I I lightened it a little bit, barely barely, but as a secretary, not as like a woman, know what I mean. You're playing the secretary, You're not playing a woman. And Cathy's not overtly feminine. She's kind of an alpha female and she asked the questions. Yeah, but it's true. Like but with me and Bruce, the balance each one. I think he made me funnier in terms of Cathy's funny, but she's she's she's you know, she's not. Bruce's character is much more overtly funny. But I think Mike Kathy made Bruce is more realistic. And those two they were yin and yang, and they really matched each other. And but but Mike Kathy came about through him. His Kathy was first, and then my cat, I my Kathy came after and then that's when the but the secretary is actually that's the secretaries were actually kind of born all at once in a weird way, because it was in the very first piece called which was about turning over, and it was the first time all five of us were in Dragon. It was a very remarkable moment and it was about five secretaries and I don't even think and then we took on. They weren't really people yet, right, Bruce's was starting to be a person. But I found the wig and you guys know it's the Yeah, I fell in love with that wig and that and that all the character flowed from the way and it was this scene about the character. Bruce is like, oh my god, what's going on? I'm about to turnover? And it was like a turnover and it was basically like a clock when it goes from like three fifty nine to four, and she had at the back of her head and then was she turned over and we all were giving her birthday party. But I mean, we all came out together and we were like seeing each other as women, all five of us, and this kind of natural we became nicer to it all changed and every all those five because there's five women in that secretarialol and those were all all the looks were pretty much settled that day. They didn't have names yet, but Dave had that red wig, and Kevin had that black wig, and Mark Gray that that Tanya wig. And I love that Tanya Tanya. She is so good the Tana Tania guy for at the party and she's trying to get you guys to the All that's good. But you know, but but we uh, I don't know, but see it. But like I don't you noticed the candy. I'm not doing anything right. No, but and you know what that that's how that woman exists in the world. But it's so true because like these small shifts that happened just when you put the wig I got. I had to do it actually at the at the Duplex, no way, not the dupe. Yes, I did years ago. Lived and um she she's I would get in the full dress and I guess they were like go go boots. They weren't even heels. It couldn't find anything for me. I had the wig and she was like, wow, you really change when you put that on, and it was weird. I got very self conscious about it because I was five years younger than I am now six years younger, and it was like, oh no, like am I revealing something about myself? Or am I too good at this? Or like and it's this thing like I understand, you know what I mean, where it's like you want to take yourself seriously and the world has made you think that you can't be serious doing this thing, you know what I mean? Like, I think I think a lot of like that. As a gay actor, gay performer, gay comedian, I think we all kind of like have the same dreams and goals as anyone else that's in the entertainment. And should you want to have like a mainstream career, you want to be mainstreams. So when you find like a niche or a or a success or a skill in doing something that's historically not that the fact that's drags literally outside the mainstream makes fun of the mainstream, yes, you're like, oh no, naturally, like what are my real So it was this moment of like she was trying to compliment me and be like, wow, you're really the character. That's great, But it was this thing in my head like the gay man inside of me was like, yeah, well, I remember the first time I started doing Buddy Cole, I've never done I'd never done that gay accent before me. All, I think most gay men have gay voices that I don't think that's that controversial. I think most of us. No, I don't know. I actually don't know except myself. Come on, come on, these Jesus great. But you know, when I first started doing that, it was the list because I I what I thought, Oh, if I start talking like that, it'll be the wind will change, and it'll be like that for the rest of my life. And I was terrified of doing that, like I would never ever imitate that because I always thought, well, I've spent my whole life trying to pass, and I've spent my whole life trying to present his masculine that I can't do that because then all of the defenses will fall away and I'll be revealed as a shrieking queen. What a fascinating experience to like that. We all kind of snare, which is to become, be born, grow into yourself, realize that's horrible, and then create this other person that you are existing that from seven, eight, nine, ten years, which is what how long I did, and then have to re establish and rEFInd who you are. You should both read. Have you read Covering by Kenji Yoshino. He's a yell, he's a he's um, he's I guess he's already turned off. No, he's a he's a he's a legal scholar. Yell. But he wrote this book. That's that's about the stages of coming out, of coming out, and then maybe of trying to like path of like having his phase where you sort of are trying to negotiate whether you want to pass or not. And then the final sort of freeing moment is I've never gotten to that, but maybe maybe I haven't either. I don't know if I'm capable of it any longer. Well, I think it's the final moment is just about not caring about passive. Yeah, And I think you're saying that you haven't gone that your masculine characters aren't quite mad. I know, I think. I mean, I've studied men my whole actor. I just I love playing those characters, and I thought that maybe society would allow me to but they did not. You know, they said, no, you're gonna play the newd fag who lives next door, who tells the main character how to live or white dress to wear, you know, and that's because that's how we know you. Yeah, and but you know in terms of like I had to because if I had to kill everything feminine in me in order to survive in a way, and I did, I wasn't very successful at it, you know, like I mean, because I just didn't want to get beat up. You know, I had four brothers, I lived in a lived in like a hockey camp, so it was very different. And anyone to be a homosexual male at that time was the worst thing that a man could be. You were disgusting. I think that's that's I think something that people don't um understand is that you know, once you realize what you are, and you not only like do you get slapped over the head with how much society hates it. It's they hate it because they're disgusted, you know. They don't hate it because it doesn't you know, it's it's not in their religious beliefs or whatever about that's a cover. They hate it because they're disgusted with the with the with the idea behind how we have sex, sodomy, all about sodomy. This is what people don't say you can't take that out of the equation. And that's why I think we kind of went wrong as whole. I mean gay marriage, but you can't take sodomy out of it. And that's one of the key differences between the way women are male gay females and males. They don't engage in so oh they can because their sex isn't disgusting, disgusting word disgusting. And I think that the gay movement has tried very hard to distance ourselves from the from bayically ground zero. You cannot. We're going to have to face it the society. You have to face We fuck each other in the asshole, and you can't dress it up with love winds sodomy fucking and I my theory is that sodomy is the original sin. This is my this is my this is my ted talk. Please the It's the the reason the male homosexual is the most I think benighted. And I said, benight creature on blighted, benighted, lowest creature on the planet is because of sodomy. And it's the ultimate sin. My belief in terms of the Bible, in terms of the original sin. If you go back to Adam and Eve this is my theory about the apple. The apple is the anus that when Adam And I'm not saying this is a real thing, but in terms of these cultural myths and archetypes, here's my theory that I think of the Garden of Eden. Back then, they didn't have apples like today, they'd be little crab apples. Crab apples, and anus looks a little bit like a before before it's been trained. And I think that one day and they didn't know what to do, God was like, I got these needs to they got them in this little zoo. I'm gonna enjoy watching. They're never gonna have kids, so I can watch. And then one day Heve's bending over the water to like, I don't pick up a flower to put in her hair, and somehow her cheeks come apart and he sees that little anus there and he's like mom, and his penis goes up his snake and the snake wants that apple, and they he fox her and she's one the fuck he fuck, and they discover away to have sex without having children, and that makes God fear glorious because now he can't control them because now they have a way to have sex to give each other pleasure without procreation, and that's the original sin. So the snake is the cock, the apple is the anus, and so sodomy is in our subconscious as the ultimate original sin that God has kicked out of the garden of Eden. So naturally, the homosexual is the devil, it's the snake. Which is why this is a very cynical, pessimistic thing to say that. You have to understand that, I don't think in our lifetimes where ever, really going to get past that completely right. So I've accepted that there's always going to be this level of hatred and visceral disgust towards the homosexual male. And in order for me to have a good life, I have to accept that. There's all It's always going to be there, and in order for me to to live in this world, I have to accept that and find a way to live with that and do everything in my power to change it, but accept that I can only do so much, and that society can only change incrementally. I agree with so, and that's why when people say, oh, lesbians, there's lots of game, there's lots of lesbian stars, it's not the same pretend that gay men and lesbians have the same journey. It's not true. And you've said that, uh, for for men, for the patriarchy, they view lesbianism as this thing that is somewhat more acceptable than gay male homosexually, I think much more because because it's like, oh, well, then you're after the same thing. They mimic men. So they go well in terms of in terms of desire. Right, So they go up, they move up the ladder, but a gay male falls from his perch and a gay white male falls the furthest because suddenly you're supposed to have the world and then your your get your it's taken away from me. So you plummet, you plummet. And so I've accepted that, Like I mean, it sounds like nihilistic that I accepted, but I go, I have to live my life. I have to. And it's not like I'm not. I haven't given up, but I accept that there's going to be because also I don't live in a bubble. You leave the you leave the West, and you'll see what real homophobia. And that's when you go, Okay, this is on. This is going to take centuries. Sure, you know what's crazy. This might make me sound like a lunatic. I believe. I believeause you've been so sane and measured. And I think we'll see a lesbian president before we see a game mail. Absolutely way more. I totally agree. I actually I don't think that anyone will ever allow a game mail to love country. No. I just it's so interesting because like it's true, it's this thing of the disgust factor. And you know, whenever any whenever I'm doing Glad brought me back in Winds I will say this whenever anyone even mentions the name Eminem. I'm like, you have to understand, like the rapper Eminem for the listeners to listen when when he dictated in popular culture, and he was inescapable, and this is when I was like forming as like a so so the most popular musician. What people heard in their ears right to the brain was Eminem saying gay men are disgusting, disgusting lyrics about him, him using the word faggot. And it's the way you say faggot when you're a straight man. We can say faggot gay straight man, they say faggot and it's it's it hurts. And he would use that word and he would talk about gays and then follow it up with sound effects like and then everyone soaked that in because school. And that's honestly tremendous, tremendous amounts of you know, film and television shows everything, you know. I was also watching that interview with you, and you could you couldn't say the word tits, but you could say the word faggot, and they wouldn't. They would but beat about tits and they wouldn't beat about faggott, which just hates beach. They shouldn't to me, they shouldn't bleep out anything yet And I agree with you, but if we're going to have standards and practices, Wow, is tits hurting anyone? Is faggot potentially hurting someone? Yeah, it's different. So this it's like, who makes the decisions about this stuff? Who dictates culturally what's happening. It's like it has been hard, it's tough, and it's only in the past I think three four or five years. Three to five years that's when the penny something changed three to five years ago. I'm exactly sure what it was culture that did it. By something suddenly, Uh, we were at the tipping point and I think suddenly society went it was like over fifty. It said, you know what, that kind of virulent homophobia is not cool. Yeah, and something changed, right, and who knows what it is. I don't think it was a particular person in pop culture. I don't think it was. But now it's like you got like this is actually kind of interesting. I'd like your take on it. Do you know Troy Savon the pop singer song Bloom that he just came out with. It's about bottoming. It's about huge pop star. It's a big pop song. I Bloom, I Bloom just for you. It's it's all about It's like the lyrics leading out into the course. She was on Saturday Live as a musical guest. He was, He's a major pop star. He's a shamellion. His name's Troy Savon. He's actually going to be in the new movie with Nicole Kidman called boy Or. He's a major star. He's a pop star Twink extraordinaire um. Yes, and he is. His his big single right now, it's called Bloom. It's about bottoming and he and everyone knows that he really He released tweeted about it hashtag bops about bottoming, it's it's it's pretty remarkable to me. That's remarkable. I mean, actually, I'm I'm gobsmacked. I can't even speak great because it's not even about being the top. It's like, no, I mean God saying gay men shame each other for body, my god, I got so much to show you, the mountains and the water, the beagon, just to know it's true. Baby, I've been saving this for you. And then the precurse is all about how he's like, please hold my hand before you for you, Like, what is it hold my hand before you go home? My hand? I funk. It's kind Now might tell you to take a second, baby, slow it down. You shouldn't know. Uh you should know. Uh boom bloom. Just so, anyway, that's making me gonna make me cry. Right, we're gonna listen to it afterwards, and we're gonna have an emotional moment. It's it's, it's, it's it's it's wonderful. It's great. And you know what, when Troy Someone first came out a few years ago, I was like, who the fuck is this guy? No, thank you? Was doing that thing of I don't want to see another game, dare. But now like I think the community at large and we celebrate him. I think where everyone's are starting to rally around this guy, like oh great, like you know what wonderful to the to the credit of some of the other pop stars that are featuring him. He's on Ariana Grande Records. He came out. Taylor Swift brought him out at her concert. They performed my My Mind Together, his other song like you know, whatever you think about this popstar, you think about them there still it's a fucking bottom pop star. Y'all bottom pop star coming out singing about his asshole. I see this really shock you shocks me. That's great. Well, actually I don't know what to say. Yeah, yeah, I feel like, wow, that's I didn't even maybe it won't take two d years, right because maybe maybe one one seven days? Well for president, I don't know that pop star. But the thing is too, it's like, you know what they've always done is this, like straight man have always done? What do you mean there's no gay? What about Elton John? It's like okay, but like he wasn't singing. John was closeted when I I was young. No, he got married, he didn't come up to he was an old man, not an old man, but he didn't know he No. I mean if Freddie Mercury was in the closet and then about he wasn't gay, But I just played with gay Mick Jagger wasn't gay. They might have sucked one cock, deal e two pussies. It doesn't make me straight. No, oh yeah, at least yesterday. No, I did know what. I had sex with women, but when I was no, the woman never accused me of being straight. The furthest I ever went with a woman is with two girls who actually knew that I was gay, and then at the same time, at the same time, good for you know, bick work. But the thing is we you know, would you do touch titties? Bleep that out? You can't say test us um oh mean, Sarah Jessica Parker, you just dropped the j. We're done with the JAP said she was now Sarah Parker. I would rise to my favor. I would say, yes, honey, honey. If she announced that at a Cynthia Nixon event, I was, oh god, she might win, might win. That's what she needs to do. You have to come out and say, my name is Sarah Parker. What everyone's gonna be like, what, Oh my god, will come out. She's like, I'm Kim Jessica rall, Oh my god, that's where the j went. She took it. Kim found it, she took it, she absorbed it. I knit her pussy all the easy. There you go, Sarah a bitch, Sarah's jay. Where's Sara's j? You know? What's her face? Kristen David was like, I'm here. Two guys, They're like, what was that? The wind was that woman with two names get lost too, named loser, Kristen with a sibilant's heavy name, very unsung hero of the films. I do have to say, I will I will hate myself if they don't tell you this to your face. I feel like, if they don't, if you are not approached by the Crown to portray Elizabeth in her later years, that is absolutely my dream, my delusional dream, that I will play the Queen from like six, because you do you give me Claire Floyd out of anybody else, any other act I wouldn't do it. I look just just like her. I mean it's the boat structure is yes, like I mean, it's and I wouldn't do it. Campy, and I've been preparing for this moment. I've actually been preparing a queen for the Crown that is a little that is more realistic than my queen, which I've been watching that show. Well it's great, it's wonderful, and I be I mean, I'm upset and I watched I'm actually this embarrassing. But I've been watching a lot of old footage of Elizabeth, which I would do anyway, just because I want because I when I am approached by the people of the Crown, we're going to play the older queen. I want them to know that I'm going to do her honor. And of course we might have to wear a lot of like turtle things, you might have to, but you know what, I I'll probably make you forget Claire Foy. I bet you bet, you bet. You have a feeling it might be Miami. You know who we met, Um Matthews. He's very good and also very sexual. Energy you can do, you can tell, but like which for us, we were like, are you he literally one of those one of those one of those straight men that is so secure that they can flirt with He wants Mickelson from Pannibals like that, Yeah, just like he didn't care who wants to fund him. It's like, if you want to fuck him, that's good, sort of infuriating. I think I was wearing something and he goes to me like it suits you, and I was like flooded bedroom eyes at both of us. Well, you know, he's he's got like he's got sexual energies. And I think it's interesting because, I mean, I really love the way their relationship is portrayed, because they really get to the cardinal center of Elizabeth. And I've always actually almost all my characters are pretty carnal, but she's You always knew that woman was getting Roger regularly, you know, I think so. And she made it. I mean, I think she made it very clear from her hat selection and her clothing choices that she liked a little it a little rough. I think she made it very clear by a yellow hat she wore an ascot in nineteen that told us she liked it, and she liked it when he pulled her hair. That was a one in Westminster Abbey. And I remember going that brooch says you like your you like nipple clam But I and I don't know how kinky they got but to sustain and married that he was screwing around, but she could not screw around. But I think she knew what she was getting. She got a big Greek stud and she you could tell she wanted them, and he made it and he she said, you just got to give it to me regularly and I'll be fine. And um, and I like the way they portray their love affair. They portrayed that whole you knew, you know that Philip, he couldn't possibly be Why would could He wouldn't be loyal? Ever, No, of course not. But I think she knew. But I think you know, now I'm thinking about who is going to be my Philip when I play. I think they're gonna get Um, this is a difficult question someone with a sharp No, who's playing Philip? Now? Who's playing Philip in Olivia Coleman. I don't know if they that they probably have. I just you know, miss Helena is playing Helena is playing Margaret. Yeah, he is playing Margaret. That's a good choice. It is good, whacky, but I think Helena resembles Claire Foy more. Yeah, the facial structure, I think she might have to have her her jawline smashed and rearrange. We might have to get fancial reconstruction surgery. I think that Helena can't play Elizabeth because her instincts are too quirky and wacky. Totally she can't play. But I'm just saying in terms of resemblance. And then Olivia looks like, uh, what's her face? Um? Uh, Kirby, would it be wrong for Liam Needson to be my Philip? No? I would Leah would? That would be amazing, That wouldn't be against the law. I'm trying to think of someone with a gone to face, gone to face right right, someone like that's a good Oh god her maybe like a not like a column. First I was going to say, like a Pierce Brosnan, but he's not gone. What am I saying? Also? Okay, no, let's go with Liam. Liam is a great Philip to you. I think he'd be good. I think we good to go. But it doesn't matter as long as you're as long as you're Elizabeth. As long as you're Elizabeth, that is all I want. You have the windsor face. I remember, It's true like I grew up in a you know, I grew up in a large family I grew up in. My mother was a very big monarchist, and you know in Canada, you know what it's like. I mean, she literally is. She's the rule of cat, She's on our money, she's our monarch, she's queen. And I can't help but I feel love for and I know when she died, I'm not working that day. That's it. Oh the whole economy of the UK is going to shut down for a sweet It's just really, it's just not gonna happen. It will take me a while to get over. You care about the weddings. Yes, yeah, it's miss Markle. She's acceptable. She's still breath of fresh air, yes exactly. But I don't know what we're talking about with Queen. I'm just saying that you you must play. Oh yeah. And it's funny because I and so I grew up in this family where my mother would have a picture of her family, had a family in the foyer like our was small, and then a huge picture of the royal family. And and this whole time, people would the kids in the hall Mark particularly would say you look like the Queen. I don't know. And so Mark wrote this piece called It's a fact, which was about this little red haired girl that runs into the camera. Boo, it's a fact. And they would do these crazy little fact things and Mark said, it's the fact. The first one was it's a fact the Queen doesn't know her A b c's so a b C d X seven eleven Chesterfield coat and it would be all like and so they said. So they made me as the Queen was a one off, and I went into the makeup with Judy and Jerry are are are makeup and hair wizards and they Judy Jerry was making me up and she was like, what's happening. She was she didn't have to do and she said, I don't have to do that much. And then Judy came over with the wig and they put it on and and and then you know, Jerry and Judy like look in the mirror and I was like, this is weird. And I mean and Marcos, I knew it. I knew it. And I walked out of the trail. I'm even getting chills thinking about it because it was such I remember the moment so clearly, and everybody looked and we went and I remember the crew looking and going it's too much and I never even practiced my voice. I never has a lot of the kids in the hall. It came about as we were getting made up. We didn't we wouldn't even know how we were going to play anything. And I remember the voice came instantly and I went hello, and I just started waving to people and I instantly became her, and it was it was a trans immaculate conception. It was a transformative moment. And I went, I have her bone structure. Yeah, I looked like the Lost Windsor. And I remember we had did a little piece and then we had some extra time. This net almost never happened. We were it was on a film shoot, one of our our film shoots, and then we improvised this whole piece that came out of nowhere, which is where the Queen walks the little red haired girl off the end of a dock, gives her a bunch of stones, says jump out, there's guild at the bottom. And I was trying to drown her because the Queen always drowned redheads because they were bad luck. Oh my god, I didn't know, and it was all improvised. It it became the credit, the closing credit sequence, and then from then on I was off and running. So you know, it's and it's the only celebrity imperson impression. It's the only one. Here's something I pulled from, Like the Edward thing. Was that a real rumor that he was gay? Oh? God, yes, yes, Okay, I'm not familiar with the scandal that would erupt if one of the royal family was gay, Like what that must feel like? Well, it couldn't have happened, you know, um, oh, there was lots of room. He worked for Andrew Lloyd Weber or was it? Or who was not? Was I don't know this someone like that? No, he wasn't gay, some mus cool guy that I have been sometimes someone I don't remember because it must have been there. But you know, no, they couldn't. He could not have been Gettan, but I who knows what he is? I don't know. But that was absolutely Yeah. Yeah, that that reality If that's true, though, that reality of any royal family ever realizing that about them, that's going to happen, of course. Well, I mean once we as soon as we get a lesbian president, we are going to get a gay member of the family. Yeah, I mean they're already there. But they'll be they are already there. Oh yeah, I can't even think about that anyway. Should we move on? We should move on to I don't think so, honey. This is our segment where we take one minute to rail against something in pop culture that's just we hate it. We hate it, we need to talk about it passionately. So you're gonna see us do it, okay, and then we'll ask you to do one as well on on the topic of your of your tuesding OKAYT Thompson's gonna do it. I don't think so. Now, do you have one that you want to do or should I go? You should go? You should go? Um, this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so. I don't know where this one's gonna go. I'm just gonna leave with my heart. His time starts now. I don't think so, honey. People at the bar who get their drink and still stand at the bar so that no one else can get there. And I'll tell you something. It's it's you straight because it doesn't really happen at the gay bar, because we have some sense. And also you want to go off and talk to people. Straight people are so boring. You have nothing more to do than create drama by standing at the bar. I'm at Northern Territory yesterday in green Point it was a zoo. It was just and not because it was crowded. It was a zoo because it was animal behavior. And it's animal like behavior. It's not dignified to get your cocktail and stay there, move out of the way. Terence says, I need to name picked because I need to order a drink and I can't do it from back here. And you guess who else you're pissing off? The fun bartender who's busting their ass, who also wants to get a new piece of client ass right there up at the bar so she can have a new drink roll through. This is a system, honey, And if you're not ready to operate in the system, you're not ready to be in this establishment. I don't think so, honey. And that's one minute. Wow, you are raising your fist. A new piece of client robbin is down, well done. You gotta cycle out, okay, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah. Neither you can say nothing because you know him right. Uh what does cycle cycle out? Like? Just like? Hi, can I get a gennic I get it. We do the transaction. I cycle out, honey, I turn around, and I walk my ask to another part of the bar. That's how that works. So the to the homo behind me, A me can go up there in order a drink. I'm gonna do one. I'm gonna doing that might be a little liptal controversial, but it's about the John McCaine related All right, here we go. This is Bellen yangs. I don't think so, honey, And as time starts now, I don't so, honey. People distributing this fucking clip of John McCain shooting down that crazy old lady at his rally for colling Obama an Arab, and his whole rebuttal is no, he's a decent man who we just happened to disagree. I mean, yes, that was an okay response. But people are lionizing this in this way that is that is just trying to like, uh, lion eyes the bare fucking minimum. First of all, the implication I remember so clearly this day in two thousand and eight, I watched Matter that night. She made a joke about how while an Arab, an Arabic person and a decent family man would never intersecting the same person, right, like yeah, Like that's the implication. It's shitty, Like John McCain is whatever. I'm not one of these people who's dancing on his grave. But I'm saying, let's go through different things in the highlight reel and say this is like he in terms of policy, he pushed this through. Why go why focus on this interaction that really just would be the norm instead of like heralding it as this gorgeous manner from the political gods. And that's one minute. I agree with you. I think the whole thing is getting blown out of proportion, literally on both sides, because because it's like a people are I mean, we're a day out. He passed away yesterday recording this on the like he like people. Every new side is like wow, remember when John McCain did this, And I'm like yo. But on the opposite side, I think that to insinuate that he's saying no, it's not an Arab, he's a good person is also going too far. I think that I think it's doing too far. And I get that people, you know, come for me or whatever, But the thing is he in a moment of this woman saying this person is a bad person. There an Arab. He in a political moment where everyone was watching, said to her, No, this is not he's not a person. It's that's the energy. So people acting like him saying he's not an Arab, he's a good person. That is not what he's saying. And I think on both sides we need to cool it. Sure, I'm I'm just saying like there's like I'm trying to pull attention backwards, like everyone's building this thing up. I think that there's I think it's so unfortunate that we're fixating on this clip as his lifelong life was, like you see, when there's other things. That's what I'm saying, sexation on the clip, and I'm saying it's not that remarkable. I mean, it's good that he shot her down, but I'm saying, like, like fine gold McCain, like talk about the things that he did in his political life and not just this interaction that he had with a crazy I think they should have focused on how gorgeous he was when he was when he was folks. Truly, I mean, let's bring it back to what's really important. Looks. I agree with you. I think it's this whole thing of like assuming we can have a smarter, intelligent about this one. We're not dealing with smart people. We're dealing with Americans. Oh sorry, bitch, we kept quiet, We kept quiet, continue to keep quiet. Okay, Um, this is Scott Thompson's I don't think so, honey. No, I mean no, because I don't really, because god, this is this is okay, you know what, Well, I just say a few things that I wanted. I've had such a good time and I feel like this might derail me because I mean, I know what I want to talk about. I know it's going to be controversial. Okay, Well, you'd rather save it for tonight when you're going to say, so, this is historical. We've never had a guest decline which we're which no, no, no, no, it's honorable. It's honorable. You think that the only exactly it's an honorable thing for me to not do that. I think you respect for Scott my rules. Who the hell am I some stupid queer? I think I think I said no, no, Scott Thompson. I think that's punk rock is what a trailblazer? Truly, I'm not even I'm not even being facetious like this is. We will honor this like, but I will say, any other guests would be like, no, you have to know any other guest that comes on here and said they don't want to do one yourself yourself, you're not you know. I mean, of course I railed about other things, and and this is, this is a thing where the first person gets all the attention, you know, not the second, not the third. There will never be a second or a third. It's only Scott Thompson. You know what, what what is it you say? I don't think, honey. You know what, honey, I don't think. Here's what I hate. Is you going a podcast and the host ask you, well, they do a bit that they always do all the time and it really works, and everybody that comes on our show does it, so you're going to do it. I hate that, you know what. I don't want to do your stupid bit. Honey. Okay, it might work for you, but it ain't working from me. Okay. You know what, here's the thing for you. One hour, twenty three minutes and two seconds, and now you're asking me to do something that you guys have been working on for months and months and months You've worked all the bugs out and now you're gonna throw me under the bus with your bit. I don't think so. I guess what, bitch, you just fell on the trap because you just did it and it was and that's the new generation coming up throughout some moneing you and out of winning you damn spark up. I do not count that as and I don't think so many because I want this to be canon. Scott Thompson did not want to do one, and we we honored that times up, times up, our time, our our time is up. I mean no, I'm just saying times up because it's a good thing, because it's a good thing to say. Wow. I mean this was very meaning. This it was greatable, truly tally wonderful. M's more fun than I thought I would have likely when you get that well, when you're called I mean, I knew you were fun, but I did when you called me honorable, like, oh it's going to be an honorable. That was a bad choice of words on my part that yeah, you fucking suck, sucked, I hate you, Bowen, You're bad. That was bad words. So it's just our way of of just blowing snoke up all of our asset. Okay, yeah, wow. The first two minutes of this part us really was that. I was like, you know, I'm happy I didn't have to grow up with you, because I would have been really overwhelmed. It's like a stupid twink, so disingenuous. I got aging twink the other day and I was like, you go, yeah, that's no no, but wait, that's the best kind of twink. Aging twink. Okay, yeah, I gotta love myself right, you'd suck me right? Thank you gorgeous. Oh yeah. If you have advice for if you have tips for Joe to to love his best life, let us know you that letter separator is it's something, it's working for someone, it's working for much. Check out Joyott's album Not a Fan, the release of the book Buddy Babylon, and uh, next time he's in New York, please check him out if he's doing a deluge Againe Scott, thank you so much, Thank you very much. Here we go. What good was one of us Sunday just as Love Love Snob. I think in Austin Powers it was slabs like Whatever's by Dog. This has been a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Brett Boham, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Forever Dog Podcasts dot com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter