Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author ofSit, Stay, Heal, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off. 



In this episode we cover: 


The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets
The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen) 
Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door
When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise)
How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.





About our guest: 

Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, Sit, Stay, Heal, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.



Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG @reneealsarraf and learn more about her book at sitstayhealbook.com



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.



Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author of<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221"> Sit, Stay, Heal</a>, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets</li>
<li aria-level="1">The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen) </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door</li>
<li aria-level="1">When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise)</li>
<li aria-level="1">How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis</li>
</ul>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest: 
Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221">Sit, Stay, Heal</a>, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.
 
Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG <a href="https://www.instagram.com/reneealsarraf/">@reneealsarraf</a> and learn more about her book at <a href="https://www.sitstayhealbook.com/">sitstayhealbook.com</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221">Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> </a>
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 

With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.

New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief & follow the show @ItsOKPod

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

Pet Loss and Veterinarians Who Cry: with Veterinary Oncologist and Author Dr. Renee Alsarraf

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/01e699de-546d-47c4-851a-b17c016b197f/transcript

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening? 

This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen.

*We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world. 

Dr. Gold’s new book, How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit drjessigold.com



In this episode we cover:


Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine?
How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work 
Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe
Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!) 



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



About our guest:

Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at drjessigold.com and on social media @drjessigold



Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book -How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Physician Support Line on social @shrink.rapping



American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on social @afspnational



Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub developed by @theNAMedicine



The Emotional PPE Project



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.



Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening? 
This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen.
*We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world. 
Dr. Gold’s new book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781982199777">How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine</a>, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit <a href="https://www.drjessigold.com/how-do-you-feel-book-by-jessi-gold-md/">drjessigold.com</a>
 
In this episode we cover:
 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine?</li>
<li aria-level="1">How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe</li>
<li aria-level="1">Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!) </li>
</ul>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest:
Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at <a href="https://www.drjessigold.com/">drjessigold.com</a> and on social media @drjessigold
 
Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book - <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781982199777">How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
<a href="https://www.physiciansupportline.com/">Physician Support Line</a> on social <a href="https://www.instagram.com/shrink.rapping">@shrink.rapping</a>
 
<a href="https://afsp.org/">American Foundation for Suicide Prevention</a> on social @afspnational
 
<a href="https://nam.edu/resource-toolkit-clinician-well-being-knowledge-hub/">Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub</a> developed by <a href="https://twitter.com/theNAMedicine">@theNAMedicine</a> 
 
<a href="https://emotionalppe.org/">The Emotional PPE Project</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Protecting Your Mental Health in the Healthcare Workplace, with the Burned Out Burnout Expert, Dr. Jessi Gold

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/f206f37c-d279-47ee-8ca0-b18a010fbb06/transcript

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want. 

PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope. 



In this episode we cover: 

- The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream

- Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone

- Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing. 

- Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring. 

- Connecting through the power of storytelling



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.





About our guest:

Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME,The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here.



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements. 

Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity. 

Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, aubreyhirsch.com

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want. 
PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
- The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream
- Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone
- Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing. 
- Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring. 
- Connecting through the power of storytelling
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest:
Aubrey Hirsch is the author of <a href="https://amzn.to/4coZLad">Why We Never Talk About Sugar</a>, a collection of short stories, and <a href="https://squareup.com/market/lettered-streets-press/preorder-split-series-volume-aubrey-hirsch-alexis-pope">This Will Be His Legacy</a>, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780062413512">Not That Bad</a>. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. <a href="https://audacity.substack.com/p/over-and-over-again">Find it here</a>.
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW <a href="https://twitter.com/aubreyhirsch">@aubreyhirsch</a> for announcements. 
Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, <a href="https://substack.com/profile/1849120-roxane-gay">The Audacity</a>. 
Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, <a href="https://aubreyhirsch.com/">aubreyhirsch.com</a>
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Over and Over Again: Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the Power of Storytelling

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. 



This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. 



In this episode we cover: 



- How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others

- Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions

- How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm

- Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment

- Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



About our guest:

Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom.



Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here. 



Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. 
 
This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
- How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others
- Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions
- How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm
- Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment
- Koshin’s new book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781538708309">Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion</a>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest:
Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the <a href="https://zencare.org/">New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care</a>, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom. 
Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781538708309">Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion</a>. Find him on IG<a href="https://www.instagram.com/koshinpaleyellison/"> @koshinpaleyellison</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. <a href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/2dxk38ZeK0TbTXXpjVyzzV?si=UGWiBgzpRjawQbtbGRid7Q">Listen to that episode here</a>. 
 
Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at <a href="https://zencare.org/">zencare.org</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Untangled: Suffering & The 8-Fold Path with Koshin Paley Ellison

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Pet Loss and Veterinarians Who Cry: with Veterinary Oncologist and Author Dr. Renee Alsarraf

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It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

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