Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author ofSit, Stay, Heal, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off. 



In this episode we cover: 


The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets
The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen) 
Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door
When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise)
How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.





About our guest: 

Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, Sit, Stay, Heal, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.



Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG @reneealsarraf and learn more about her book at sitstayhealbook.com



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.



Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author of<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221"> Sit, Stay, Heal</a>, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets</li>
<li aria-level="1">The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen) </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door</li>
<li aria-level="1">When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise)</li>
<li aria-level="1">How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis</li>
</ul>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest: 
Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221">Sit, Stay, Heal</a>, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.
 
Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG <a href="https://www.instagram.com/reneealsarraf/">@reneealsarraf</a> and learn more about her book at <a href="https://www.sitstayhealbook.com/">sitstayhealbook.com</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063215221">Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> </a>
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 

With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.

New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief & follow the show @ItsOKPod

Life is full of difficult things, from tiny everyday disappointments to life-altering events. Everyone’s at least a little bit Not OK, something grief expert and psychotherapist Megan Devine knows from the inside out. In wide ranging, insightful, deep conversations, Megan talks with people about their often invisible losses - and what they’ve learned about being seen and supported in difficult times. 
With guests pulled from the front lines of entertainment, medicine, education, and activism, the conversations in It’s OK that You’re Not OK are funny, complex, emotional, and hopeful - maybe not your typical dinner party topics, but none of us are entirely OK, and it’s time we start talking about that.
New episodes each and every Monday, from the author of the best-selling book, It’s OK That You’re Not OK, and iHeartMedia. Find Megan online at @refugeingrief &amp; follow the show @ItsOKPod

It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

Pet Loss and Veterinarians Who Cry: with Veterinary Oncologist and Author Dr. Renee Alsarraf

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/01e699de-546d-47c4-851a-b17c016b197f/transcript

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. 



This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. 



In this episode we cover: 



- How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others

- Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions

- How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm

- Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment

- Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



About our guest:

Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom.



Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here. 



Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed



Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. 
 
This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
- How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others
- Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions
- How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm
- Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment
- Koshin’s new book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781538708309">Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion</a>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest:
Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the <a href="https://zencare.org/">New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care</a>, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom. 
Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781538708309">Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion</a>. Find him on IG<a href="https://www.instagram.com/koshinpaleyellison/"> @koshinpaleyellison</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. <a href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/2dxk38ZeK0TbTXXpjVyzzV?si=UGWiBgzpRjawQbtbGRid7Q">Listen to that episode here</a>. 
 
Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at <a href="https://zencare.org/">zencare.org</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Untangled: Suffering & The 8-Fold Path with Koshin Paley Ellison

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/661a49e8-1a10-4324-911d-b17f0043f7e5/transcript

On the outside, veteran Jason Kander had everything going for him: successful political career, lovely family, the respect of his peers. But on the inside, he was struggling: nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts were constant companions. 

Jason joins us to talk about his new book,Invisible Storm, and what it really takes to go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth. (Don’t let that ‘post traumatic growth’ turn you away from this episode! There are no shortcuts to happiness here.) 



In this episode we cover: 



- Why most returning vets believe that getting help is great - for other people. 

- The concept of “stolen valor” and how it relates to treatment options for PTSD

- How Jason used shame as a way to give himself the illusion of control 

- What “redemptive heroism” is, and why there’s a much better way to manage PTSD

- Every trauma is valid trauma: avoiding the temptation of comparing emotional injury



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.





About our guest:

Jason Kander joined the Army National Guard in 2005 after getting a law degree at Georgetown University. He deployed in 2006 to Afghanistan, where his mission was to assess the corruption levels of former Afghan warlords and government leaders. Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, exploring a presidential run. But outside of the political spotlight, he was racked by nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts. His book, Invisible Storm, shares the story of his experience with PTSD, and his hopes for anyone who’s survived trauma. 

Jason is the president of the Veterans Community Project, a national nonprofit organization, and the host of Majority 54, one of the nation's most popular political podcasts. Follow him on social media @jasonkander



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

The book Jason mentioned is Tribe by Sebastian Junger



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

On the outside, veteran Jason Kander had everything going for him: successful political career, lovely family, the respect of his peers. But on the inside, he was struggling: nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts were constant companions. Jason joins us to talk about his new book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063268616">Invisible Storm</a>, and what it really takes to go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth. (Don’t let that ‘post traumatic growth’ turn you away from this episode! There are no shortcuts to happiness here.) 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
- Why most returning vets believe that getting help is great - for other people. 
- The concept of “stolen valor” and how it relates to treatment options for PTSD
- How Jason used shame as a way to give himself the illusion of control 
- What “redemptive heroism” is, and why there’s a much better way to manage PTSD
- Every trauma is valid trauma: avoiding the temptation of comparing emotional injury
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest:
Jason Kander joined the Army National Guard in 2005 after getting a law degree at Georgetown University. He deployed in 2006 to Afghanistan, where his mission was to assess the corruption levels of former Afghan warlords and government leaders. Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, exploring a presidential run. But outside of the political spotlight, he was racked by nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts. His book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9780063268616">Invisible Storm</a>, shares the story of his experience with PTSD, and his hopes for anyone who’s survived trauma. 
Jason is the president of the <a href="https://www.veteranscommunityproject.org/">Veterans Community Project</a>, a national nonprofit organization, and the host of <a href="https://www.wondermedianetwork.com/originals/majority-54">Majority 54</a>, one of the nation's most popular political podcasts. Follow him on social media @jasonkander
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
The book Jason mentioned is <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781455566389">Tribe</a> by Sebastian Junger
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

Other People Have It Worse: Veteran Jason Kander on PTSD & Recognizing You Need Help

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. 



What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. 



In this episode we cover: 


Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief
How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career
Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti 
Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable) 
Navigating racism in the corporate world 



We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.



Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



About our guest: 

Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. 



Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit errolpierre.com



About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief



Additional Resources:

Read Errol’s book - The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color



For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”



Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 



Check out Megan’s best-selling books -It’s OK That You're Not OK andHow to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.



Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us atrefugeingrief.com

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781119893264">The Way Up</a>, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. 
 
What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
<ul>
<li aria-level="1">Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief</li>
<li aria-level="1">How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career</li>
<li aria-level="1">Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti </li>
<li aria-level="1">Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable) </li>
<li aria-level="1">Navigating racism in the corporate world </li>
</ul>
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief <a href="http://refugeingrief.com/wyg">course here</a>.
 
About our guest: 
Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. 
 
Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit <a href="https://errolpierre.com/">errolpierre.com</a>
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074">It’s Ok that You’re Not OK</a>, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Read Errol’s book - <a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781119893264">The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color</a>
 
For more on grief in the workplace, read <a href="https://www.benefitnews.com/news/the-burden-of-bereavement-grief-is-the-latest-challenge-for-employers-in-the-coronavirus-era">“The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era”</a> and <a href="https://hbr.org/2018/09/how-to-talk-to-a-grieving-customer">“How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”</a>
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? <a href="https://www.patreon.com/megandevine">Join our patreon community</a> for live monthly Q&amp;A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? <a href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd0EjlSBXpJCil0TqCMp1sC-1SlWfBpC_jcVPOmrH5eJTMSFw/viewform">Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here</a>. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books -<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781622039074"> It’s OK That You're Not OK</a> and<a href="https://bookshop.org/a/96103/9781683643708"> How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed</a>
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on<a href="https://www.instagram.com/refugeingrief/"> Instagram</a>,<a href="https://www.facebook.com/refugeingrief/"> Facebook</a>,<a href="https://twitter.com/refugeingrief"> Twitter</a>, and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@refugeingrief"> TikTok</a> @refugeingrief and<a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@itsokpod"> @itsokpod</a> on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at<a href="https://refugeingrief.com/"> refugeingrief.com</a>

It’s Not Just Business: Healthcare Equity & Leadership with Dr. Errol Pierre

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/012b3b09-c049-4600-ba18-b17f0033d15b/transcript

Pet Loss and Veterinarians Who Cry: with Veterinary Oncologist and Author Dr. Renee Alsarraf

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