Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm Kelly ben Simone, one of your celebrity mentors here on the pod, and I'm so excited because today.

Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm Kelly ben Simone, one of your celebrity mentors here on the pod, and I'm so excited because today.

I am joined with someone who's already been on the show.

I am joined with someone who's already been on the show.

We loved getting to hear your story and how you're opening up about finding love again. It's Jana Kramer's best friend Pamelin back on the pod. Oh my god, I'm so excited to meet you. We're live from iHeart Verbo podcast House at Bottle Rock, and Wow, this place is incredible. We're in Villa Montabella, one of Verbo's vacation rentals of the Year in twenty twenty four, and it's everything you could dream of. Seriously, the wine cave is insane. And if you want your own amazing vacation rental, down tho the Verbo app and out there twenty twenty five vacation rentals of the Year. Trust us, you won't be disappointed. So I mentioned that you were on the pod before, and I was listening to all of your chats with Jana and you're incredible and so open and so gorgeous. Your Instagram is insane. I just learned recently you're not supposed to use words like incredible, insane, all the words that I use that are my go tos, you're not supposed to use.

We loved getting to hear your story and how you're opening up about finding love again. It's Jana Kramer's best friend Pamelin back on the pod. Oh my god, I'm so excited to meet you. We're live from iHeart Verbo podcast House at Bottle Rock, and Wow, this place is incredible. We're in Villa Montabella, one of Verbo's vacation rentals of the Year in twenty twenty four, and it's everything you could dream of. Seriously, the wine cave is insane. And if you want your own amazing vacation rental, down tho the Verbo app and out there twenty twenty five vacation rentals of the Year. Trust us, you won't be disappointed. So I mentioned that you were on the pod before, and I was listening to all of your chats with Jana and you're incredible and so open and so gorgeous. Your Instagram is insane. I just learned recently you're not supposed to use words like incredible, insane, all the words that I use that are my go tos, you're not supposed to use.

Any I saw the list, and honestly, what other words are we supposed to use?

Any I saw the list, and honestly, what other words are we supposed to use?

I know?

I know?

So how am I supposed to say, like, wow, well let's just go rogue and just do whatever we want?

So how am I supposed to say, like, wow, well let's just go rogue and just do whatever we want?

Thank you, Pamela.

Thank you, Pamela.

Love that.

Love that.

I love that.

I love that.

So first of all, let's for those who are listening, just a quick recap of you know, where you.

So first of all, let's for those who are listening, just a quick recap of you know, where you.

Are in your life.

Are in your life.

So you and jan are best friends, You guys are neighbors. Yes, you build houses next to each other. Yes, and Jana may or not be babysit your daughter right now.

So you and jan are best friends, You guys are neighbors. Yes, you build houses next to each other. Yes, and Jana may or not be babysit your daughter right now.

Yes, Okay, So it takes a village, for sure, it takes I just like counted, there were seven women involved in helping me take care of my kids for forty eight hours just to be able to leave.

Yes, Okay, So it takes a village, for sure, it takes I just like counted, there were seven women involved in helping me take care of my kids for forty eight hours just to be able to leave.

You know how beautiful is that?

You know how beautiful is that?

That is amazing?

That is amazing?

I mean it's a lot, but it's still like, you know, a village, and I don't know what I would do without that.

I mean it's a lot, but it's still like, you know, a village, and I don't know what I would do without that.

So I raised my kids in New York City, I did not have that same village. There were forty eight strangers but they were not women that I knew.

So I raised my kids in New York City, I did not have that same village. There were forty eight strangers but they were not women that I knew.

But anyway, my kids are fine. They're fine.

But anyway, my kids are fine. They're fine.

You know, strangers are great. So that's amazing, and that's just so nice. You can come here and feel good because you, you know, are taking care of your children and working out and cooking and telling us everything on your Instagram, which I love. I was feeling very insecure today. I was like, Okay, do I do some push ups beforehand? Or should I just go to the gym?

You know, strangers are great. So that's amazing, and that's just so nice. You can come here and feel good because you, you know, are taking care of your children and working out and cooking and telling us everything on your Instagram, which I love. I was feeling very insecure today. I was like, Okay, do I do some push ups beforehand? Or should I just go to the gym?

Or do I not eat?

Or do I not eat?

I always eat?

I always eat?

Please, That's what I'm trying to like tell every woman, you know, low calories is not the option.

Please, That's what I'm trying to like tell every woman, you know, low calories is not the option.

Right, and I think too, which you're such a great new role model to the Pod because you're single, you're looking for love, but you're not like on the hunt. You are organically open to finding love. And like last night we were in the Cave.

Right, and I think too, which you're such a great new role model to the Pod because you're single, you're looking for love, but you're not like on the hunt. You are organically open to finding love. And like last night we were in the Cave.

How cool is that one?

How cool is that one?

Oh my gosh, amazing, amazing.

Oh my gosh, amazing, amazing.

I know. I walked in there. I was like, this is so cinematic, wasn't it?

I know. I walked in there. I was like, this is so cinematic, wasn't it?

It was? Even the pictures made it look like that.

It was? Even the pictures made it look like that.

I just was like, oh my god, this place is amazing. The food was incredible. We had so much fun. The table was like so fun like every went from bacheloration, the housewise well.

I just was like, oh my god, this place is amazing. The food was incredible. We had so much fun. The table was like so fun like every went from bacheloration, the housewise well.

In so many Yeah, different age groups and just different walks of life, just all coming together.

In so many Yeah, different age groups and just different walks of life, just all coming together.

And couples that have been together for fifteen years. You know, you and I are single.

And couples that have been together for fifteen years. You know, you and I are single.

It's just like a fun mix of all these different people. And we had a really interesting conversation and I loved what you said about meeting people, and you said that when you meet people, you are open to a relationship, but you know, and you have relationships for long periods of time.

It's just like a fun mix of all these different people. And we had a really interesting conversation and I loved what you said about meeting people, and you said that when you meet people, you are open to a relationship, but you know, and you have relationships for long periods of time.

It's not like you're like in and out like some people.

It's not like you're like in and out like some people.

Just the nature of the beasts, because we're like all these apps and so much opportunity that we're meeting people, and it's like going on one or two dates, but you're really like you want to be with someone, you want to get to know them, and you want.

Just the nature of the beasts, because we're like all these apps and so much opportunity that we're meeting people, and it's like going on one or two dates, but you're really like you want to be with someone, you want to get to know them, and you want.

You know, you're really looking for that person.

You know, you're really looking for that person.

But you're not like, Okay, I'm just going to go one or two dates and then fall in love and yeah, can.

But you're not like, Okay, I'm just going to go one or two dates and then fall in love and yeah, can.

You talk more about that?

You talk more about that?

Sure?

Sure?

I mean I think you have to be you know, intentional number one and not just have like hopes for somebody's potential and really like hone in on you know truly, like, what is this person you know, going to.

I mean I think you have to be you know, intentional number one and not just have like hopes for somebody's potential and really like hone in on you know truly, like, what is this person you know, going to.

Like do for me?

Like do for me?

And in return, like what can I you know, do for them to better their lives?

And in return, like what can I you know, do for them to better their lives?

Because at this.

Because at this.

Point in our lives we have a lot of things. We have careers, we have our children, we have homes, we have this life that we've already built, and so if we're going to let somebody in and you know, invest in that energy, it has to be like the jackpot for me anyway.

Point in our lives we have a lot of things. We have careers, we have our children, we have homes, we have this life that we've already built, and so if we're going to let somebody in and you know, invest in that energy, it has to be like the jackpot for me anyway.

The jackpot. Do you guys?

The jackpot. Do you guys?

Hear that hashtag the jackpot? Pamelin is telling us that's what we want. Maybe that should be the new app called the Jackpot. I love that It's She's like the jackpot, mic drop. So when we're looking for that jackpot is the single dad? Would you ever consider dating anyone who is single dad?

Hear that hashtag the jackpot? Pamelin is telling us that's what we want. Maybe that should be the new app called the Jackpot. I love that It's She's like the jackpot, mic drop. So when we're looking for that jackpot is the single dad? Would you ever consider dating anyone who is single dad?

I think ideally that would probably make the most sense because they truly understand that we're not going to be each other's main priority like ever, you know, I mean, it's it's your kids and then I think yourself should come next, or maybe even yourself first, then your kids, right, because if we're not you know, mentally stable, and we're not at at peace, nobody is.

I think ideally that would probably make the most sense because they truly understand that we're not going to be each other's main priority like ever, you know, I mean, it's it's your kids and then I think yourself should come next, or maybe even yourself first, then your kids, right, because if we're not you know, mentally stable, and we're not at at peace, nobody is.

Going to thrive, you know, and then it's like we're talking then we're talking third place.

Going to thrive, you know, and then it's like we're talking then we're talking third place.

And so if somebody, if somebody can't understand.

And so if somebody, if somebody can't understand.

That third base, third place is.

That third base, third place is.

Somebody can't understand that, then it's it's it's going to be a little bit of a situation.

Somebody can't understand that, then it's it's it's going to be a little bit of a situation.

Have you ever had a conversation with someone and been like, by the way, like you're going to be third place?

Have you ever had a conversation with someone and been like, by the way, like you're going to be third place?

And what do they say? Well, if they're a single dad, they they get it.

And what do they say? Well, if they're a single dad, they they get it.

They're in They're like freaking sign me up, because this is exactly what they're thinking.

They're in They're like freaking sign me up, because this is exactly what they're thinking.

And and hoping.

And and hoping.

I think most you know, are hoping that there are women out there that also, you know, think like that. And I think both men and women we get like scared, you know what if we don't give that person enough, like are they gonna, you know, not want to us, Like do we have to be this, you know, drop everything type of situation? And I don't think it has to be like that. And for me, it won't be like that or else I'm just not going to do it. I'm just going to like stay in my happy, beautiful little life with my community and my village and my kids and my company and.

I think most you know, are hoping that there are women out there that also, you know, think like that. And I think both men and women we get like scared, you know what if we don't give that person enough, like are they gonna, you know, not want to us, Like do we have to be this, you know, drop everything type of situation? And I don't think it has to be like that. And for me, it won't be like that or else I'm just not going to do it. I'm just going to like stay in my happy, beautiful little life with my community and my village and my kids and my company and.

Travel and be so you know, so so happy.

Travel and be so you know, so so happy.

Yeah, I do believe that somebody can make me even happier. And I'm super excited for that opportunity. And you know, I mean I visualize it. I'm like, you know, you get excited about it. But I'm also not going to romanticize something that's just not there or if that's not possible, or that maybe somebody is not capable of.

Yeah, I do believe that somebody can make me even happier. And I'm super excited for that opportunity. And you know, I mean I visualize it. I'm like, you know, you get excited about it. But I'm also not going to romanticize something that's just not there or if that's not possible, or that maybe somebody is not capable of.

Okay, so what if they haven't been married before, but they do have kids.

Okay, so what if they haven't been married before, but they do have kids.

Oh I don't care about that. Yeah, I don't care about that. And again I say, ideally would be a single dad. But I'm not closed off to somebody that's like super emotionally just in charge and understands that, you know, I have kids and that's you know, my main priority. I mean, I think that there are also like people out there that are so evolved in thinking like that and realize if they're getting into a relationship, you know, with a woman like that, that that's just like not going to be the case. And I mean the older we get, the older men get, the older women get. We want to do our own thing, Like we want the freedom to travel and to you know, make our own decisions and not at the check in like hey, I'm running to the store.

Oh I don't care about that. Yeah, I don't care about that. And again I say, ideally would be a single dad. But I'm not closed off to somebody that's like super emotionally just in charge and understands that, you know, I have kids and that's you know, my main priority. I mean, I think that there are also like people out there that are so evolved in thinking like that and realize if they're getting into a relationship, you know, with a woman like that, that that's just like not going to be the case. And I mean the older we get, the older men get, the older women get. We want to do our own thing, Like we want the freedom to travel and to you know, make our own decisions and not at the check in like hey, I'm running to the store.

I mean, you know.

I mean, you know.

And so to have freedom like that, I think is the magic formula. I think a lot of times like the demise of relationships are the mundane and like these just you know, daily things that kind of can get very boring if you're not spicing it up and making a conscious effort to really invest in your relationship. And you do that together because you have children together and you're married, and this is what you kind of signed up for, and that's just like you know, the societal norms. But when you get out of a marriage and you're not in that like thing that everybody you know, this normal right and quotes relationship that everybody says that you're supposed to do X, Y and Z, you have this abundance of freedom to like make your own rules and do whatever you want in that next relationship. And so that's where I'm at. R Okay, like I'm going unconventional.

And so to have freedom like that, I think is the magic formula. I think a lot of times like the demise of relationships are the mundane and like these just you know, daily things that kind of can get very boring if you're not spicing it up and making a conscious effort to really invest in your relationship. And you do that together because you have children together and you're married, and this is what you kind of signed up for, and that's just like you know, the societal norms. But when you get out of a marriage and you're not in that like thing that everybody you know, this normal right and quotes relationship that everybody says that you're supposed to do X, Y and Z, you have this abundance of freedom to like make your own rules and do whatever you want in that next relationship. And so that's where I'm at. R Okay, like I'm going unconventional.

See I've just been single for you know, over fifteen years, and then I went and had that little blip. But it's funny when you're talking about this, I sing it up like I just want like my like love language is like the normal sea and the consistency and like having breakfast together and like making plans and like you.

See I've just been single for you know, over fifteen years, and then I went and had that little blip. But it's funny when you're talking about this, I sing it up like I just want like my like love language is like the normal sea and the consistency and like having breakfast together and like making plans and like you.

Know what, you're going to the market.

Know what, you're going to the market.

You want, you know, a coffee? Sure like that.

You want, you know, a coffee? Sure like that.

I'm like creating. I love that.

I'm like creating. I love that.

That's Ford, Illinois.

That's Ford, Illinois.

Your kids are older, right, so you have that space, you have that capacity if.

Your kids are older, right, so you have that space, you have that capacity if.

I wanted that when they were younger.

I wanted that when they were younger.

See, I don't.

See, I don't.

I tried to create it.

I tried to create it.

I was like, I raised my kids with a suburban urban lifestyle whatever that means. Like so like Megan Markle, and I'm like, you know, I tried to like create this environment for them that was like every day, but then we were also living in this wild, big city and so I always like, that's I think one reason why they are very like And I don't want to say real because that's just sounds so that's.

I was like, I raised my kids with a suburban urban lifestyle whatever that means. Like so like Megan Markle, and I'm like, you know, I tried to like create this environment for them that was like every day, but then we were also living in this wild, big city and so I always like, that's I think one reason why they are very like And I don't want to say real because that's just sounds so that's.

One of those weird words.

One of those weird words.

But well rounded, thank you.

But well rounded, thank you.

So yeah, But I guess I.

So yeah, But I guess I.

Just always wanted that. I just always wanted that. I don't want the spice, I want the call.

Just always wanted that. I just always wanted that. I don't want the spice, I want the call.

I want the spice I need. Oh, I just want for it. My name is Kelly, I'm a leo.

I want the spice I need. Oh, I just want for it. My name is Kelly, I'm a leo.

Yeah, the jungle, And I think eventually, you know, I'll be forty seven and my kids are nine and eleven, and so.

Yeah, the jungle, And I think eventually, you know, I'll be forty seven and my kids are nine and eleven, and so.

They it's a daily thing.

They it's a daily thing.

There's sports like crazy, there's they they need me a lot right now. And so you know, when we talk about the capacity, like what what is how much do I have, you know, to give to somebody? And so I and I'm selfish about the time I have with my kids because now I only have them seventy percent of the time.

There's sports like crazy, there's they they need me a lot right now. And so you know, when we talk about the capacity, like what what is how much do I have, you know, to give to somebody? And so I and I'm selfish about the time I have with my kids because now I only have them seventy percent of the time.

So when I'm with them.

So when I'm with them.

It's it's, you know, very intimate, and it's like I drop everything so that I can really focus on that time. And I'm not not saying that it can't overlap, you know a little bit, but I think that I would more so be thinking like you when they get you know, a little bit older, and I have some and I'm also scaling my company and trying to build this you know, empire too, which is super important because I have to take care of myself and my kids right monetarily, So I need to.

It's it's, you know, very intimate, and it's like I drop everything so that I can really focus on that time. And I'm not not saying that it can't overlap, you know a little bit, but I think that I would more so be thinking like you when they get you know, a little bit older, and I have some and I'm also scaling my company and trying to build this you know, empire too, which is super important because I have to take care of myself and my kids right monetarily, So I need to.

Know.

Know.

I love that.

I love that.

But I get that I love the simple thing. And when I say spice it up, I don't like to go out all the time. I don't do anything like that. I don't even really drink it's not that that kind of spice, but it's like let's have let's go and we'll meet here for a chill weekend, you know, and then we'll go here, and you know, maybe it's like every other week when I don't have my kids, I go to where he lives. Every other week he comes for three days where I live. I mean, I think that's like the flexibility and that like unconventional approach that I think would work best for me right now. And so I think subconsciously that's why I don't really date in Nashville.

But I get that I love the simple thing. And when I say spice it up, I don't like to go out all the time. I don't do anything like that. I don't even really drink it's not that that kind of spice, but it's like let's have let's go and we'll meet here for a chill weekend, you know, and then we'll go here, and you know, maybe it's like every other week when I don't have my kids, I go to where he lives. Every other week he comes for three days where I live. I mean, I think that's like the flexibility and that like unconventional approach that I think would work best for me right now. And so I think subconsciously that's why I don't really date in Nashville.

I don't want you up in my backyard.

I don't want you up in my backyard.

I don't want you up in my backyard.

I don't want you up in my backyard.

What about your children? Are they like Mommy, like, oh.

What about your children? Are they like Mommy, like, oh.

They can't wait. They just want me to have And so anytime I've dated, look.

They can't wait. They just want me to have And so anytime I've dated, look.

On TV and like that should be our daddy, give their dad and they yeah, but like but they love that.

On TV and like that should be our daddy, give their dad and they yeah, but like but they love that.

They they So anytime I've dated anybody, they do not know. I've never involved them and any of it. They've never met anybody. And I just try to stay like compartmentalize those two things right now. And that's not going to be forever. And there probably wasn't anybody that was you know, worth them meeting, but they just can't wait. Yeah, they want all of these other step you know, brothers and sisters, and they're like very specific on what they want.

They they So anytime I've dated anybody, they do not know. I've never involved them and any of it. They've never met anybody. And I just try to stay like compartmentalize those two things right now. And that's not going to be forever. And there probably wasn't anybody that was you know, worth them meeting, but they just can't wait. Yeah, they want all of these other step you know, brothers and sisters, and they're like very specific on what they want.

They want older brothers and sisters. Yeah, they want that whole crew.

They want older brothers and sisters. Yeah, they want that whole crew.

You know.

You know.

It's interesting because like my kids would be like when they were younger, I would say I want a family for my family and I've always wanted that.

It's interesting because like my kids would be like when they were younger, I would say I want a family for my family and I've always wanted that.

I told you that before, and my kids would be.

I told you that before, and my kids would be.

Like, okay, what does that mean? We have to share with people your time. Now they're just like, Mom, we just want you to like have a friend because like you're like bothering us and there's only so much aloe we can buy together, like we need you.

Like, okay, what does that mean? We have to share with people your time. Now they're just like, Mom, we just want you to like have a friend because like you're like bothering us and there's only so much aloe we can buy together, like we need you.

Need to have somebody else to call.

Need to have somebody else to call.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so they're sweet and they're obviously older now they're twenty four and twenty seven, but it's just isn't it, Like I need would never tell my mom, Like I can't imagine like telling my mom like, you know, oh you should do this.

And so they're sweet and they're obviously older now they're twenty four and twenty seven, but it's just isn't it, Like I need would never tell my mom, Like I can't imagine like telling my mom like, you know, oh you should do this.

I never time.

I never time.

I never told my mom she should do anything. I just reported for duty. Whatever she told me to do, I did well. And my mom was divorced oh twice.

I never told my mom she should do anything. I just reported for duty. Whatever she told me to do, I did well. And my mom was divorced oh twice.

So she divorced my dad when I was like four, and then she got remarried and got divorced again. So I mean I kind of like went through you know, her whole like evolution of dating thing.

So she divorced my dad when I was like four, and then she got remarried and got divorced again. So I mean I kind of like went through you know, her whole like evolution of dating thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean when she I was I think fourteen when she divorced my stepdad, so like right in the height of you know, high school on adulthood and trying to like figure all of that out. And then she's simultaneously trying to figure out.

Yeah, I mean when she I was I think fourteen when she divorced my stepdad, so like right in the height of you know, high school on adulthood and trying to like figure all of that out. And then she's simultaneously trying to figure out.

And I look back, and.

And I look back, and.

You know, she was like my age even younger when she was going through that second divorce, and so you you you look at that situation differently now that now that I'm going through it, and you know, you you really just, yeah, your heart almost like you know, breaks her.

You know, she was like my age even younger when she was going through that second divorce, and so you you you look at that situation differently now that now that I'm going through it, and you know, you you really just, yeah, your heart almost like you know, breaks her.

Do you guys talk about that? You guys like she really helped me.

Do you guys talk about that? You guys like she really helped me.

And honestly, because I saw her go through it, and because I saw her just crush life and build, you know, and build her life, you know, after these two divorces, I think that helped me know that I could do it.

And honestly, because I saw her go through it, and because I saw her just crush life and build, you know, and build her life, you know, after these two divorces, I think that helped me know that I could do it.

Also, two siblings.

Also, two siblings.

I have a brother, yeah, as the older I eighteen months younger. Okay, so he's like a twin, like me.

I have a brother, yeah, as the older I eighteen months younger. Okay, so he's like a twin, like me.

I have a twin brother, an actual twin brother, though, Oh you do.

I have a twin brother, an actual twin brother, though, Oh you do.

But isn't it interesting when you have that a close like opposite sex, how it's kind of like how you see relationships differently.

But isn't it interesting when you have that a close like opposite sex, how it's kind of like how you see relationships differently.

You respect the opposite sex.

You respect the opposite sex.

Differently when you have that. Yeah, that's so nice that you're so sweet about your mom.

Differently when you have that. Yeah, that's so nice that you're so sweet about your mom.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I mean, I had a great mom, but I didn't have that kind of connection with her. Again, it was like reporting for duty.

I mean, I had a great mom, but I didn't have that kind of connection with her. Again, it was like reporting for duty.

I just well, she to also say, because she was you know, and back then, I mean in the eighties, the divorce was so different. The child custody was so different. It was like I got to see my dad every other weekend. It's not like that anymore. Well, I mean for most people, it's not really like that anymore. And so she was really like the main one, you know that. And so our relationship was great, but she all my friends with my mom's my best friend. It wasn't like that with my mom and I because she had to almost like keep it a little bit separate.

I just well, she to also say, because she was you know, and back then, I mean in the eighties, the divorce was so different. The child custody was so different. It was like I got to see my dad every other weekend. It's not like that anymore. Well, I mean for most people, it's not really like that anymore. And so she was really like the main one, you know that. And so our relationship was great, but she all my friends with my mom's my best friend. It wasn't like that with my mom and I because she had to almost like keep it a little bit separate.

She was the mom.

She was the mom.

She was, you know, the disciplinarian like, so she it wasn't like we were.

She was, you know, the disciplinarian like, so she it wasn't like we were.

Best friends, right, And I think that that's actually better when there is kind of a buffer between a parent and a child. I know it's difficult now with there's so much divorce, but I just feel that sometimes when my friends are like we're best friends, I'm like, okay, so you guys chop together or you have lunch together, but that doesn't mean that you're asking her her advice or his advice, because just like the maturation process is different and what they're going through and you went through, and how they're just their their experiences, they're just totally different.

Best friends, right, And I think that that's actually better when there is kind of a buffer between a parent and a child. I know it's difficult now with there's so much divorce, but I just feel that sometimes when my friends are like we're best friends, I'm like, okay, so you guys chop together or you have lunch together, but that doesn't mean that you're asking her her advice or his advice, because just like the maturation process is different and what they're going through and you went through, and how they're just their their experiences, they're just totally different.

So I I mean, I will my kids always.

So I I mean, I will my kids always.

Like kind of wanted to know, and I gave them enough information so they felt included, but not enough that where they were like they felt responsible.

Like kind of wanted to know, and I gave them enough information so they felt included, but not enough that where they were like they felt responsible.

Yeah no, And I think that's responsible on your end. And I think that you know.

Yeah no, And I think that's responsible on your end. And I think that you know.

Well, because.

Well, because.

I think people are over sharing with their little kids especially, and I just I'm just not going to do that.

I think people are over sharing with their little kids especially, and I just I'm just not going to do that.

And I I.

And I I.

Just say, you know, mommy is so happy, you guys like literally full of joy.

Just say, you know, mommy is so happy, you guys like literally full of joy.

I have everything.

I have everything.

And so when when that does happen, and it will, I know that I'm not gonna, you know, not have a significant of other or a lover. You know, that's so intense like for the rest of my life.

And so when when that does happen, and it will, I know that I'm not gonna, you know, not have a significant of other or a lover. You know, that's so intense like for the rest of my life.

I know that. And so when.

I know that. And so when.

I when I get there and it's appropriate, like you will be the first to know.

I when I get there and it's appropriate, like you will be the first to know.

I will be so excited to tell you. But right now, well you know, mommy, mommy, get has nothing to tell you.

I will be so excited to tell you. But right now, well you know, mommy, mommy, get has nothing to tell you.

Mamma's got a great bond, she's cool, she's got great friends, she's all set. Speaking of being all set and having a great body and of like you know what you what I mean? Obviously every guy wants to date you, clearly, but what about you? What are you attracted to?

Mamma's got a great bond, she's cool, she's got great friends, she's all set. Speaking of being all set and having a great body and of like you know what you what I mean? Obviously every guy wants to date you, clearly, but what about you? What are you attracted to?

I think this is the fun part, and I think that so many women in our situation focus on like the heart right in the in the negative and like how you know, it's a jungle out there, And for me, I have embraced it where this is like Pamela and two point zero version of what I like. So what I liked my whole earlier, you know, life is has clearly not worked out for me, right.

I think this is the fun part, and I think that so many women in our situation focus on like the heart right in the in the negative and like how you know, it's a jungle out there, And for me, I have embraced it where this is like Pamela and two point zero version of what I like. So what I liked my whole earlier, you know, life is has clearly not worked out for me, right.

So so let's paint that picture.

So so let's paint that picture.

So what like what?

So what like what?

Just like quickly like, what what were you interested in or attracted to? And what are you now so you can get a picture.

Just like quickly like, what what were you interested in or attracted to? And what are you now so you can get a picture.

Well I'm still figuring it out, but what I've been what my past, Yeah, my past. I think it was always you know, like very athletic, bigger, tall, maybe like more alpha males, like a.

Well I'm still figuring it out, but what I've been what my past, Yeah, my past. I think it was always you know, like very athletic, bigger, tall, maybe like more alpha males, like a.

Lot of ego and like tall, a lot of I think.

Lot of ego and like tall, a lot of I think.

You know, ego perfect, a lot of ego there, probably like not vulnerable enough. And then I I don't think I required enough from them because I probably saw that they.

You know, ego perfect, a lot of ego there, probably like not vulnerable enough. And then I I don't think I required enough from them because I probably saw that they.

Couldn't give that.

Couldn't give that.

Then I just thought that that was the norm.

Then I just thought that that was the norm.

And what do you I mean, I'm not your therapist, and I don't play one on TV. But what do you Why do you think that you were attracted to someone who wasn't giving you enough?

And what do you I mean, I'm not your therapist, and I don't play one on TV. But what do you Why do you think that you were attracted to someone who wasn't giving you enough?

I know, right, like let's unpack it, I mean, still unhacking it.

I know, right, like let's unpack it, I mean, still unhacking it.

Yeah, I think I was really just like attracted to like the shiny.

Yeah, I think I was really just like attracted to like the shiny.

Toy hot guy.

Toy hot guy.

Yeah, we're also on LEO now that we know, now that we know you're a star sign, we know that you're a LEO, so you're probably like I can handle it.

Yeah, we're also on LEO now that we know, now that we know you're a star sign, we know that you're a LEO, so you're probably like I can handle it.

You do.

You do.

Know anything about star signs? Don't ever anyone ever asked me about a star signs?

Know anything about star signs? Don't ever anyone ever asked me about a star signs?

I have no idea.

I have no idea.

That's the thing. I mean.

That's the thing. I mean.

I was, I was in my mind happy though with these men because I just take it upon myself to find my own happiness too, Like, I don't just look at getting that from somebody. So I always had a million friends, I was always doing my thing, I was always growing my career, I was always working, and so I really wasn't like just looking, you know, for somebody to make me happy. But when I look back, they were really giving, not much like at all.

I was, I was in my mind happy though with these men because I just take it upon myself to find my own happiness too, Like, I don't just look at getting that from somebody. So I always had a million friends, I was always doing my thing, I was always growing my career, I was always working, and so I really wasn't like just looking, you know, for somebody to make me happy. But when I look back, they were really giving, not much like at all.

Right, and so now you want someone that's more empathetic more, I need vulnerable. How do you find a vulnerable guy?

Right, and so now you want someone that's more empathetic more, I need vulnerable. How do you find a vulnerable guy?

I've found that, I've actually found two men. I've actually found something maybe a little bit too oh god, oh my god, but I've found because I'm not even accepting anything less than that, and so I've definitely found them. I think that it's a little bit of digging, right. It's like, you know, you can tell by messages and like questions, you can tell.

I've found that, I've actually found two men. I've actually found something maybe a little bit too oh god, oh my god, but I've found because I'm not even accepting anything less than that, and so I've definitely found them. I think that it's a little bit of digging, right. It's like, you know, you can tell by messages and like questions, you can tell.

See I'm like a one word answer kind of person, like I'm chatty with you, but when I'm writing, I'm like, great, fun looks good, Like I'm kind of like an AI.

See I'm like a one word answer kind of person, like I'm chatty with you, but when I'm writing, I'm like, great, fun looks good, Like I'm kind of like an AI.

Well, I think if like you know, they're willing to share things. And and that is the cool part about being this age is we have a lot of depth. We've all been through a lot, Yeah, and so I think there is a lot to unpack and talk about. And if you're going to act like like everything's you know, roses all the time and not really like dig in, I'm not really interested.

Well, I think if like you know, they're willing to share things. And and that is the cool part about being this age is we have a lot of depth. We've all been through a lot, Yeah, and so I think there is a lot to unpack and talk about. And if you're going to act like like everything's you know, roses all the time and not really like dig in, I'm not really interested.

I feel like it's like people are like, it's kind of like the new version of trauma von where like in your for in your like late forties, late thirties, forties and fifties, or because you're saying, like to your point, we have so much more experience and so now when someone says something like I can empathize, Like if this were ten years ago.

I feel like it's like people are like, it's kind of like the new version of trauma von where like in your for in your like late forties, late thirties, forties and fifties, or because you're saying, like to your point, we have so much more experience and so now when someone says something like I can empathize, Like if this were ten years ago.

I would be like, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Like why are you telling me this?

I would be like, I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Like why are you telling me this?

No, we have no idea until you go through it.

No, we have no idea until you go through it.

Until you go through it, And so it's just I mean, it makes it I'm actually more interested to hear like how they're navigating things, or how they dealt with their ex wives or all those you know. Obviously in positive ways. I don't want to hear that adity, but yeah, I'm like not into that, but you know, I really it makes me feel more connected to them versus just like being like do you want to give dinner.

Until you go through it, And so it's just I mean, it makes it I'm actually more interested to hear like how they're navigating things, or how they dealt with their ex wives or all those you know. Obviously in positive ways. I don't want to hear that adity, but yeah, I'm like not into that, but you know, I really it makes me feel more connected to them versus just like being like do you want to give dinner.

Sure.

Sure.

Do you like red wine?

Do you like red wine?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Do you impassa No? Like yeah, this temple No, if you think and stuff like that, No.

Do you impassa No? Like yeah, this temple No, if you think and stuff like that, No.

And it's so Yeah, I think it could be so much more deep and so much more beautiful actually, because if you think about, like you know, when you're younger and you're just trying to write, like find your husband, and you're in the first stage of all of that, and you're out and you know, you're with your friends and that's all that you really you have so much time to do that. You have so much time to find that person that'use that's all everybody's doing. They're just out and about. There's not a ton of responsibilities. That's like your your goal. On most people, that's their progression. They're going to find their husband, they're going to have kids, they're going to buy the house. I mean, that's the stage that they're at. We're not at that stage. Yeah, so, and we don't even have as much time as we did then, so it's like you almost kind of.

And it's so Yeah, I think it could be so much more deep and so much more beautiful actually, because if you think about, like you know, when you're younger and you're just trying to write, like find your husband, and you're in the first stage of all of that, and you're out and you know, you're with your friends and that's all that you really you have so much time to do that. You have so much time to find that person that'use that's all everybody's doing. They're just out and about. There's not a ton of responsibilities. That's like your your goal. On most people, that's their progression. They're going to find their husband, they're going to have kids, they're going to buy the house. I mean, that's the stage that they're at. We're not at that stage. Yeah, so, and we don't even have as much time as we did then, so it's like you almost kind of.

Gotta get to it.

Gotta get to it.

Yeah right, I'm pat quickly because I gotta go bring a carry on back because I don't have time for your whole.

Yeah right, I'm pat quickly because I gotta go bring a carry on back because I don't have time for your whole.

Luggage I think this is the best question.

Luggage I think this is the best question.

I don't have time for your leuvatant trunk.

I don't have time for your leuvatant trunk.

I think this is the best quote.

I think this is the best quote.

Like, you know, you you start to like you have to, you know, ask those questions. Don't jump into things too quickly. So it's like you hire slowly and you fire fast. So you're you start to ask those questions right like you get you're kind of like in research mode. You're exploring, you're asking all these questions, but you're asking the heart and the right questions.

Like, you know, you you start to like you have to, you know, ask those questions. Don't jump into things too quickly. So it's like you hire slowly and you fire fast. So you're you start to ask those questions right like you get you're kind of like in research mode. You're exploring, you're asking all these questions, but you're asking the heart and the right questions.

You're getting all your information. When women immediately.

You're getting all your information. When women immediately.

After, like one day, they're like, oh, I'm in love, he's the man, he's.

After, like one day, they're like, oh, I'm in love, he's the man, he's.

No girlfriend, You're it's not it's not it.

No girlfriend, You're it's not it's not it.

And so it drives me crazy when when people get so hooked so quickly, because you really have to dig.

And so it drives me crazy when when people get so hooked so quickly, because you really have to dig.

And then if it's not it, if it's not.

And then if it's not it, if it's not.

A hell yes, get rid of done, move on, don't hold on to it for these like hope that it's going to be something that's I think the biggest mistake.

A hell yes, get rid of done, move on, don't hold on to it for these like hope that it's going to be something that's I think the biggest mistake.

And then at this age, I don't have six.

And then at this age, I don't have six.

Months to hold on to something that is making you kind of know, you know.

Months to hold on to something that is making you kind of know, you know.

Jenna gave you some really good advice.

Jenna gave you some really good advice.

We're not going to go over it because I want you, I want the listeners to listen to Jenna's podcast with you. She gives you some really really good tips, So you guys have to check that out. But what I do want to know is that have you ever had a fun wing woman who may be a slightly bit older than you, hang out at bottle Rock listening to fun music.

We're not going to go over it because I want you, I want the listeners to listen to Jenna's podcast with you. She gives you some really really good tips, So you guys have to check that out. But what I do want to know is that have you ever had a fun wing woman who may be a slightly bit older than you, hang out at bottle Rock listening to fun music.

Have you ever had done that before?

Have you ever had done that before?

I have never, because you know, right now, right like, all my friends are married with three kids, nobody's going out, nobody is having that situation.

I have never, because you know, right now, right like, all my friends are married with three kids, nobody's going out, nobody is having that situation.

So I would be honored if you could do that with me. Today. We think we're going to crush it.

So I would be honored if you could do that with me. Today. We think we're going to crush it.

We are going to have so much fun. So this became like kind of like my thing. A couple of months ago, we were at iHeartRadio for jingle Ball and I took some some of my new friends out and I just can't talk to anyone.

We are going to have so much fun. So this became like kind of like my thing. A couple of months ago, we were at iHeartRadio for jingle Ball and I took some some of my new friends out and I just can't talk to anyone.

I mean, I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but I'm just like, hi, I'm Kelly, and people are.

I mean, I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but I'm just like, hi, I'm Kelly, and people are.

Like, okay, good because I can't. I'm not I'm shy. I can't do that.

Like, okay, good because I can't. I'm not I'm shy. I can't do that.

And I literally will start asking them questions I'm just like no, no, no, no, no no. So I'll be like this is.

And I literally will start asking them questions I'm just like no, no, no, no, no no. So I'll be like this is.

And I can do it for you, but I get really shy about me.

And I can do it for you, but I get really shy about me.

So this is going to be.

So this is going to be.

But see, I can't do it for myself.

But see, I can't do it for myself.

I'm just like I will talk to people, but they're like, are you talking to me for yourself?

I'm just like I will talk to people, but they're like, are you talking to me for yourself?

My no, no, no, my friend. I have this friend. She happens to be adopted, gorgeous, and she's staying next to me.

My no, no, no, my friend. I have this friend. She happens to be adopted, gorgeous, and she's staying next to me.

Yes, okay, so this is like important. So hypothetically you and I are like out there in the wild and the music wild, and we are attracted to the same guy.

Yes, okay, so this is like important. So hypothetically you and I are like out there in the wild and the music wild, and we are attracted to the same guy.

What are we going to do? Do we like the same kind of guy? Do we know this? Are we going for?

What are we going to do? Do we like the same kind of guy? Do we know this? Are we going for?

Like?

Like?

What about what's your age range?

What about what's your age range?

My age range?

My age range?

Is we overlap? For sure? But I think so a little bit.

Is we overlap? For sure? But I think so a little bit.

I mean I just I don't mind a little bit younger, but not too much older, Like I can't do seventy and I because I'm just wildly immature.

I mean I just I don't mind a little bit younger, but not too much older, Like I can't do seventy and I because I'm just wildly immature.

So that would just not work at all. Can you see me with the seven year old?

So that would just not work at all. Can you see me with the seven year old?

I would be like running circle.

I would be like running circle.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not about being fit, like I don't It's like the people the guys are like, oh, you were models. You must like people that are really fit. I'm like, that's not true.

It's not about being fit, like I don't It's like the people the guys are like, oh, you were models. You must like people that are really fit. I'm like, that's not true.

I just like that's me. You like fit.

I just like that's me. You like fit.

Yeah, you're like the fit jock. I'm not. I'm like, I just like the person that I.

Yeah, you're like the fit jock. I'm not. I'm like, I just like the person that I.

Don't actually like the very very build. No, I don't like the like big kind of build. I just I like more like the fit in mind, body and soul. Like let's be honest, you know, because you can have this beautiful body and if you're messed up in the head. I mean I don't want that either, So I think like it's just the well rounded for sure.

Don't actually like the very very build. No, I don't like the like big kind of build. I just I like more like the fit in mind, body and soul. Like let's be honest, you know, because you can have this beautiful body and if you're messed up in the head. I mean I don't want that either, So I think like it's just the well rounded for sure.

I think I'm just because of my like my like wherever I go for my favorite memories are like like Geneva, Wisconsin, hanging out with all my friends, like jumping in the water water scan. I like people that are men that are just like having a really good time. So I'm like the frat boy with a job and maybe not so much of the beer gun, but like I'm okay if it's like.

I think I'm just because of my like my like wherever I go for my favorite memories are like like Geneva, Wisconsin, hanging out with all my friends, like jumping in the water water scan. I like people that are men that are just like having a really good time. So I'm like the frat boy with a job and maybe not so much of the beer gun, but like I'm okay if it's like.

You know, and you know all all this, be like she like a frat boy. No she doesn't, Yes, I do. I actually really like.

You know, and you know all all this, be like she like a frat boy. No she doesn't, Yes, I do. I actually really like.

Let's go to fun. Well, college. Should we go to check it out?

Let's go to fun. Well, college. Should we go to check it out?

Oh my god, don't know. I go to his parents beeguns and I'm like, these are not what I mean.

Oh my god, don't know. I go to his parents beeguns and I'm like, these are not what I mean.

My frat boys like with all this to be said that we can sit here all day long and talk about like, Okay, what do we like this and that?

My frat boys like with all this to be said that we can sit here all day long and talk about like, Okay, what do we like this and that?

But for me, it's just this energy.

But for me, it's just this energy.

So when I meet some people in person, I may not have liked them on let's say, rayah, but it's this energy that's like whoa. And I did have this experience where you know, I matched with somebody and he was he was super smart and I no, not the little one did?

So when I meet some people in person, I may not have liked them on let's say, rayah, but it's this energy that's like whoa. And I did have this experience where you know, I matched with somebody and he was he was super smart and I no, not the little one did?

Can we talk about him though?

Can we talk about him though?

Or no?

Or no?

Okay? Yeah?

Okay? Yeah?

And I'm like, is he going to be boring? He's super techy, like you know, but I did like the sophistication and the classiness and this very you know, smart part that like the smart is really doing it for me right now.

And I'm like, is he going to be boring? He's super techy, like you know, but I did like the sophistication and the classiness and this very you know, smart part that like the smart is really doing it for me right now.

And so.

And so.

I'm like, okay, Pam, let's do a FaceTime and see is.

I'm like, okay, Pam, let's do a FaceTime and see is.

There some swagger? Like so swagger?

There some swagger? Like so swagger?

Well, my mom would be mad if I said, because she's like, Pamelin, I did not give you this name?

Well, my mom would be mad if I said, because she's like, Pamelin, I did not give you this name?

Yeah, Pamelin, Yeah, Pamalain she's like Famaline secret name Pam.

Yeah, Pamelin, Yeah, Pamalain she's like Famaline secret name Pam.

So we did a FaceTime and I was like, well, go ahead with your bad self, with your techie, you know. I was so impressed, and so it just it was a really good, you know experience for me to not just judge by maybe like what you do for a living is going to correlate to are you exciting or fun or you know, are you swaggy just because you're in this field.

So we did a FaceTime and I was like, well, go ahead with your bad self, with your techie, you know. I was so impressed, and so it just it was a really good, you know experience for me to not just judge by maybe like what you do for a living is going to correlate to are you exciting or fun or you know, are you swaggy just because you're in this field.

And so.

And so.

In a perfect world, we meet the guy out we have the energy and it's just this like magnetic thing. But in this world, it's really hard to go out all the time and find that. So that's you know why we're here doing this right.

In a perfect world, we meet the guy out we have the energy and it's just this like magnetic thing. But in this world, it's really hard to go out all the time and find that. So that's you know why we're here doing this right.

One of one of our new friends that I that I was talking to last night, she was saying that she lives, she's in San Francisco, and then she goes out and because she was on reality, she'll go out and she'll meet these She'll you know, go out and do whatever. But like guys are never like hey, or like I saw you on this show that show and then but she said she'll get home and they'll DM yeah, and like that's I don't want to be out in the wild.

One of one of our new friends that I that I was talking to last night, she was saying that she lives, she's in San Francisco, and then she goes out and because she was on reality, she'll go out and she'll meet these She'll you know, go out and do whatever. But like guys are never like hey, or like I saw you on this show that show and then but she said she'll get home and they'll DM yeah, and like that's I don't want to be out in the wild.

I want to meet the real people.

I want to meet the real people.

I want to see the vibe, you know, I that's what I'm that's I like that too.

I want to see the vibe, you know, I that's what I'm that's I like that too.

Yeah, And I think, I mean, you know, because I'm not I wasn't on a show or anything like that, so I don't have that kind of I guess where people would know, oh, who who I am?

Yeah, And I think, I mean, you know, because I'm not I wasn't on a show or anything like that, so I don't have that kind of I guess where people would know, oh, who who I am?

You know, I'm just oh, we know who you are? Normal? But I don't.

You know, I'm just oh, we know who you are? Normal? But I don't.

But I think, even like for me when I am out for the rare times that I am, or even like at the gym or wherever it is, I don't think that I give off the vibe of available enough. And that's what I think I have to work on personally.

But I think, even like for me when I am out for the rare times that I am, or even like at the gym or wherever it is, I don't think that I give off the vibe of available enough. And that's what I think I have to work on personally.

You know what. That's so funny that you said that, because I think I have to do that too.

You know what. That's so funny that you said that, because I think I have to do that too.

I think that I don't smile like I get embarrassed. Partly, I truly am shy.

I think that I don't smile like I get embarrassed. Partly, I truly am shy.

Around, but I smile a lot. I'm just a smiley person. I don't know, I was blessed with good teeth. Like I'm a smiling person. And I'm also very outgoing, but I'm also super shy. Like like I said, like, I'm very outgoing this way. But then if you come into my territory.

Around, but I smile a lot. I'm just a smiley person. I don't know, I was blessed with good teeth. Like I'm a smiling person. And I'm also very outgoing, but I'm also super shy. Like like I said, like, I'm very outgoing this way. But then if you come into my territory.

I'm like, that's why.

I'm like, that's why.

We need each other. It's gonna be perfect good.

We need each other. It's gonna be perfect good.

Okay, we have to have like some kind of code. Maybe maybe it'll be Pam, give me our name some one or like if so if you're like I really like this guy, and I'll be like, okay, I mean I'm not.

Okay, we have to have like some kind of code. Maybe maybe it'll be Pam, give me our name some one or like if so if you're like I really like this guy, and I'll be like, okay, I mean I'm not.

I would never lie.

I would never lie.

I would be like you have but like what like a girl like a luandelas Countess lan Coat, like love you c D. We're going for you like what count just low see out in that CD kind of like what it's how about like a workout? What's like a work well?

I would be like you have but like what like a girl like a luandelas Countess lan Coat, like love you c D. We're going for you like what count just low see out in that CD kind of like what it's how about like a workout? What's like a work well?

I was just going to say, this is like so random.

I was just going to say, this is like so random.

Back in the eighties when I was, you know, like a young kid, so many kids were getting kidnapped. It's not funny, but and so there was a code word that you were supposed to have with your mother. Like if somebody said, hey, you know, come here, your mom said that, like you know, she we need to take you home from school today. That's what they were saying to these kids. And so our code word was cheerios. Okay, my mom and my brother. Maybe that's the bad one. Maybe that's if we don't like that.

Back in the eighties when I was, you know, like a young kid, so many kids were getting kidnapped. It's not funny, but and so there was a code word that you were supposed to have with your mother. Like if somebody said, hey, you know, come here, your mom said that, like you know, she we need to take you home from school today. That's what they were saying to these kids. And so our code word was cheerios. Okay, my mom and my brother. Maybe that's the bad one. Maybe that's if we don't like that.

Okay, yeah, but I.

Okay, yeah, but I.

Don't know what the good one is.

Don't know what the good one is.

I don't know, like some kind of like what's like something that's really I mean, I like a cheerio, it's fine, but what something.

I don't know, like some kind of like what's like something that's really I mean, I like a cheerio, it's fine, but what something.

Something that's like really good that's like forbidden fruit loop apple? An Apple?

Something that's like really good that's like forbidden fruit loop apple? An Apple?

It's like no but like from the you know they were supposed to Adam and Eve.

It's like no but like from the you know they were supposed to Adam and Eve.

Oh Apple, Oh here I am, like I'm going like she's like, no, no key like apple like Adam and Eve.

Oh Apple, Oh here I am, like I'm going like she's like, no, no key like apple like Adam and Eve.

You didn't know where I was going.

You didn't know where I was going.

She's like, stay with me, stay with me.

She's like, stay with me, stay with me.

Okay, fine, So apple is for forbidden like hot guy and the cheerios just like yeah, okay, So all right, so we have our lingo down and then I want to know, like just a quick thing like okay, so at a concert, is there a right flag of like people.

Okay, fine, So apple is for forbidden like hot guy and the cheerios just like yeah, okay, So all right, so we have our lingo down and then I want to know, like just a quick thing like okay, so at a concert, is there a right flag of like people.

Are drinking too much?

Are drinking too much?

It's too well absolutely too drunk. I can't I can't do it, Like I just can't do it.

It's too well absolutely too drunk. I can't I can't do it, Like I just can't do it.

I'll have you know, it's fine, like a glass of wine, cocktail or two whatever, but I just I don't like that at all.

I'll have you know, it's fine, like a glass of wine, cocktail or two whatever, but I just I don't like that at all.

Yeah, I want a guy drinks too much? Sorry guys, and they're like.

Yeah, I want a guy drinks too much? Sorry guys, and they're like.

I love you and love you.

I love you and love you.

It's like, oh my god.

It's like, oh my god.

For women, it's just not attractive. And you know, and especially at this age.

For women, it's just not attractive. And you know, and especially at this age.

Plus, I don't want someone unpacking when they're dropping it, no, because if you can't remember it, that you don't need.

Plus, I don't want someone unpacking when they're dropping it, no, because if you can't remember it, that you don't need.

I want to remember everything about these experiences that I have, and you know, it's like clouded.

I want to remember everything about these experiences that I have, and you know, it's like clouded.

Okay that I've one last question. So on your podcast with Janna, she said that sometimes she has a hard time empathiz like not empathizing, but connecting with people that are like well known or have been on TV like her.

Okay that I've one last question. So on your podcast with Janna, she said that sometimes she has a hard time empathiz like not empathizing, but connecting with people that are like well known or have been on TV like her.

And I was listening to that, and I thought to myself, Yes, sometimes it's.