Hey, it's me Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here at I Do Part two. We were talking with doctor Hillary and there was just so much more that I need to ask her, So let's jump back into that conversation. The hardest part for me was the kids of it all and just that enormous guilt that I was ruining their lives forever. And it was really really hard for me. And I can remember the only thing, the only tool that I heard from somebody along the way was I would say to them in those moments when they were showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish I had a magic wand and I could wave it and everything would be okay. But I don't.

Hey, it's me Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here at I Do Part two. We were talking with doctor Hillary and there was just so much more that I need to ask her, So let's jump back into that conversation. The hardest part for me was the kids of it all and just that enormous guilt that I was ruining their lives forever. And it was really really hard for me. And I can remember the only thing, the only tool that I heard from somebody along the way was I would say to them in those moments when they were showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish I had a magic wand and I could wave it and everything would be okay. But I don't.

But I love that you said this them, So you did have tools that That's a version of what I'm really saying here. And this is the hard thing as a parent that is part of the decision to divorce, or at least had to agree to the divorce is saying to our kids some version of I can't fix it. It's the last thing we want to say to our kids. But the best thing to say to our kids their reality is that it's not okay, and They don't want to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want to hear that you get it, that it hurts, and that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely, it will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in a certain way, in a year, in a certain way, in ten years, in a certain way. It will feel better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know adults who are children of divorce and they're okay, they find their way right. But Parado kids have divorced find their way much more easily if their trauma and their ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed and not tried to make okay right, because that's their reality. It's never going to be okay for a kid that their mom and dad are together. I mean, there are may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously, but in general, yeah, I love that you put that to them. So you you offer them something critical, which is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it, and I'm right here with you until it feels just a little bit better. You know.

But I love that you said this them, So you did have tools that That's a version of what I'm really saying here. And this is the hard thing as a parent that is part of the decision to divorce, or at least had to agree to the divorce is saying to our kids some version of I can't fix it. It's the last thing we want to say to our kids. But the best thing to say to our kids their reality is that it's not okay, and They don't want to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want to hear that you get it, that it hurts, and that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely, it will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in a certain way, in a year, in a certain way, in ten years, in a certain way. It will feel better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know adults who are children of divorce and they're okay, they find their way right. But Parado kids have divorced find their way much more easily if their trauma and their ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed and not tried to make okay right, because that's their reality. It's never going to be okay for a kid that their mom and dad are together. I mean, there are may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously, but in general, yeah, I love that you put that to them. So you you offer them something critical, which is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it, and I'm right here with you until it feels just a little bit better. You know.

What do you think about bringing the new significant other to a holiday gathering to meet your family for the first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much for the new person to handle, too much for the kids the family to handle.

What do you think about bringing the new significant other to a holiday gathering to meet your family for the first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much for the new person to handle, too much for the kids the family to handle.

Yeah. So, if you come to know me in general, I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and talk about both sides. I am not going to do that here. That is a hard no.

Yeah. So, if you come to know me in general, I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and talk about both sides. I am not going to do that here. That is a hard no.

Oh my god, I failed. I met my new significant other in the beginning of December and he was at our house for Christmas. Oh man, Well.

Oh my god, I failed. I met my new significant other in the beginning of December and he was at our house for Christmas. Oh man, Well.

Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory and in concept where I would say no and they work out beautifully? Absolutely? I mean I have clients who meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the next week, have them move in two weeks later, and and how the beautiful mats became loving. So but let me tell you why I'm saying now, and that is the introduction. It's really about the kids. If there's no kids involved, yeah, I mean, if there's no kids involve, whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's just fine. I may have like an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's just fine when there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I was just talking about, which is like something much deeper in our minds. Were like whatever, it's like two hours over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs. It's all good. Other cousins will be there, It'll be like so fun, right. But because it bumps up against this like deeper, this isn't my dad, my mom is moving on it, it sort of kicks up that, like, my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet your significant other in a very small dose, in a super chill environment is what I recommend as a first set. So like it's in neutral territory, you know, over a coffee or a quick ice cream, depending out of age, and it's like an hour and it's like the discussion beforehand is version of what I was just talking about. Like, so you've known about Joe for a long time, but this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to me that I want you, who was the most important person to be in the world, to meet him, and that that's a big message. Well bring up a lot of feelings, you know, really, and it's adjusted for the kids sixteen versus six, But you get what I'm saying. So wow, that's a that's a that's that's a that's a moment. You know, how do you feel about it? Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just gonna have an ice cream and you'll get to stay hi and you can show him your favorite doll and then like that's it. Then maybe we'll see him again another time after right, And so that it's it's it's really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it and feels kid centered, which I think matters that. It's like, I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going to say right now, but some version of like your comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me. So this is slow, this is intentional, This is no pressure, and the meeting itself is really more about Joe meeting the kids versus the kids just witnessing Mom with Joe in their new relationship. It's a way to like bring them in as a part of it as opposed to just like a witness of it.

Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory and in concept where I would say no and they work out beautifully? Absolutely? I mean I have clients who meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the next week, have them move in two weeks later, and and how the beautiful mats became loving. So but let me tell you why I'm saying now, and that is the introduction. It's really about the kids. If there's no kids involved, yeah, I mean, if there's no kids involve, whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's just fine. I may have like an opinion one way or the other, but I think it's just fine when there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I was just talking about, which is like something much deeper in our minds. Were like whatever, it's like two hours over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs. It's all good. Other cousins will be there, It'll be like so fun, right. But because it bumps up against this like deeper, this isn't my dad, my mom is moving on it, it sort of kicks up that, like, my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet your significant other in a very small dose, in a super chill environment is what I recommend as a first set. So like it's in neutral territory, you know, over a coffee or a quick ice cream, depending out of age, and it's like an hour and it's like the discussion beforehand is version of what I was just talking about. Like, so you've known about Joe for a long time, but this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to me that I want you, who was the most important person to be in the world, to meet him, and that that's a big message. Well bring up a lot of feelings, you know, really, and it's adjusted for the kids sixteen versus six, But you get what I'm saying. So wow, that's a that's a that's that's a that's a moment. You know, how do you feel about it? Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just gonna have an ice cream and you'll get to stay hi and you can show him your favorite doll and then like that's it. Then maybe we'll see him again another time after right, And so that it's it's it's really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it and feels kid centered, which I think matters that. It's like, I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going to say right now, but some version of like your comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me. So this is slow, this is intentional, This is no pressure, and the meeting itself is really more about Joe meeting the kids versus the kids just witnessing Mom with Joe in their new relationship. It's a way to like bring them in as a part of it as opposed to just like a witness of it.

Yeah, because they are a part of it.

Yeah, because they are a part of it.

Absolutely, That's that's the intention. And so slow rolling it in the way that I was just describing, I think sets up the entire system for the most success, but particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here, he's here, and accept him. Right. It's it's the initial meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe, or rather about Joe and the kids just get to know each other, to know each other, and then the next time it's two hours you go bowling, and then the next time it's a movie and dinner, and then from there you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive. It can work in an absence of all of this, but from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the information we've been talking about, I imagine what I'm saying makes sense and that ideally, and if you're looking for like a little bit of a map, that's the one I would pick.

Absolutely, That's that's the intention. And so slow rolling it in the way that I was just describing, I think sets up the entire system for the most success, but particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here, he's here, and accept him. Right. It's it's the initial meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe, or rather about Joe and the kids just get to know each other, to know each other, and then the next time it's two hours you go bowling, and then the next time it's a movie and dinner, and then from there you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive. It can work in an absence of all of this, but from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the information we've been talking about, I imagine what I'm saying makes sense and that ideally, and if you're looking for like a little bit of a map, that's the one I would pick.

That's a good map. Oh I was flying mapless. Okay, what do you think about people who have a checklist of must haves in a partner? I know I in my work. After my divorce, I had to sit down and think about what was important to me looking forward into another relationship, and my therapist at that time called at my non negotiables, where that there were certain things that were very very important to me to build that relationship.

That's a good map. Oh I was flying mapless. Okay, what do you think about people who have a checklist of must haves in a partner? I know I in my work. After my divorce, I had to sit down and think about what was important to me looking forward into another relationship, and my therapist at that time called at my non negotiables, where that there were certain things that were very very important to me to build that relationship.

On exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well, non negotiables and just to think more about it for the folks listening, these are things that like they're just deal breakers that have now decided post divorce with great intention and analysis, you cannot live without, you cannot endure. And I mean those might be things anything from he lives a certain number of miles away, to he does have kids he doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication, to his adventures, lifestyle, whatever the things are, and that is personal and concrete. So concretize those non negotiables, those deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be vague and more like, really decide what are those things and if you sit down with your piece of paper or you're fried or your therapist, I don't know. Oh, I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow. That's okay. I'm not surprised you just got out of divorce. It's static and you're trying to find your feet on the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. Right, It's a process. And like we were talking about at the beginning, if you think your non negotiables are you know, these top three things, and then you meet someone and he has kids and you were sure you didn't want to be with someone who has kids. But like all the other things are so important, let it be fluid. Don't make it all encompassing and all powerful in a way that disallows you to be uh, a version of like contrived spontanet at spontaneous. Right, all those things to shift because you will be growing and shifting post divorce. So start the process, but allow it to flow and shift and change, and don't shame or criticize yourself if it does, in fact, expect it to.

On exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well, non negotiables and just to think more about it for the folks listening, these are things that like they're just deal breakers that have now decided post divorce with great intention and analysis, you cannot live without, you cannot endure. And I mean those might be things anything from he lives a certain number of miles away, to he does have kids he doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication, to his adventures, lifestyle, whatever the things are, and that is personal and concrete. So concretize those non negotiables, those deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be vague and more like, really decide what are those things and if you sit down with your piece of paper or you're fried or your therapist, I don't know. Oh, I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow. That's okay. I'm not surprised you just got out of divorce. It's static and you're trying to find your feet on the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. Right, It's a process. And like we were talking about at the beginning, if you think your non negotiables are you know, these top three things, and then you meet someone and he has kids and you were sure you didn't want to be with someone who has kids. But like all the other things are so important, let it be fluid. Don't make it all encompassing and all powerful in a way that disallows you to be uh, a version of like contrived spontanet at spontaneous. Right, all those things to shift because you will be growing and shifting post divorce. So start the process, but allow it to flow and shift and change, and don't shame or criticize yourself if it does, in fact, expect it to.

Yes, should you tell the person about your non negotiables or should you keep them to yourself?

Yes, should you tell the person about your non negotiables or should you keep them to yourself?

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean I might not just like present it.

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean I might not just like present it.

It's like a list. Here, read this and then just sign at the bottom that you actually read it.

It's like a list. Here, read this and then just sign at the bottom that you actually read it.

Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So if you are sure that you want to be with someone who is open to having children. That seems like a non negotiable that is worthy of sharing. You know, I'm not sure you want to use that as like your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting, and it's and I would love for people to When I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of want to be with some of them as kids. I want you to sit in your truth and try it on, even if it changes six months from now. I just know in this season of my life, I'm really clear I want to be with someone who wants to kids as much as I do. It's just it's just something I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great. Right. There's no apology, there's no further explanation. This is my truth, and if the person can't promise or is turned off by that, we can thank them for giving us this feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer. And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting in all those things. But if our goal is to be embodied right, is to figure out what resonates for us and live a life that finally feels like it's uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things out there in this embodied way. This is my truth and I'm not going to apologize for it, and I would attach that same mindset to really any non negotiable that, like, don't apologize for it. You know, I want to be with someone that wants to travel three times a year I do. Might seem simple, might seem small, might seem nuanced, but that's my truth for now. How do you feel about travel right that you're just embodying who you are at this season and trying on how it feels to show up that way.

Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So if you are sure that you want to be with someone who is open to having children. That seems like a non negotiable that is worthy of sharing. You know, I'm not sure you want to use that as like your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting, and it's and I would love for people to When I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of want to be with some of them as kids. I want you to sit in your truth and try it on, even if it changes six months from now. I just know in this season of my life, I'm really clear I want to be with someone who wants to kids as much as I do. It's just it's just something I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great. Right. There's no apology, there's no further explanation. This is my truth, and if the person can't promise or is turned off by that, we can thank them for giving us this feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer. And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting in all those things. But if our goal is to be embodied right, is to figure out what resonates for us and live a life that finally feels like it's uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things out there in this embodied way. This is my truth and I'm not going to apologize for it, and I would attach that same mindset to really any non negotiable that, like, don't apologize for it. You know, I want to be with someone that wants to travel three times a year I do. Might seem simple, might seem small, might seem nuanced, but that's my truth for now. How do you feel about travel right that you're just embodying who you are at this season and trying on how it feels to show up that way.

I had something so it felt so insignificant, but to me it felt it was important. I didn't want to be with a smoker.

I had something so it felt so insignificant, but to me it felt it was important. I didn't want to be with a smoker.

Yep.

Yep.

I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and then for the rest of our lives was sick from it. Always had that smell like it was really important to me and I and when I met Dave, he smoked, and so I immediately thought, oh, well, he's not the one for me because he smokes silly as that is. And I remember asking, is quitting smoking something that you might ever be interested or open to? Do you want to smoke forever? What what is it with you and smoking? Like I had to instead of just shutting it off for myself, I had to do what you said, get curious and embody what I wanted, but at the same time be curious about what he wanted so that I could get that solid information.

I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and then for the rest of our lives was sick from it. Always had that smell like it was really important to me and I and when I met Dave, he smoked, and so I immediately thought, oh, well, he's not the one for me because he smokes silly as that is. And I remember asking, is quitting smoking something that you might ever be interested or open to? Do you want to smoke forever? What what is it with you and smoking? Like I had to instead of just shutting it off for myself, I had to do what you said, get curious and embody what I wanted, but at the same time be curious about what he wanted so that I could get that solid information.

Right, I know that's exactly what I'm talking about. You have to show up for yourself and it's not easy. That kind of self advocacy.

Right, I know that's exactly what I'm talking about. You have to show up for yourself and it's not easy. That kind of self advocacy.

Is very scary.

Is very scary.

Yeah, scary, and that feeling I want your listeners to understand is ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with you if that feels scary, It is scary to stand in your own truth and declare them with risk. Right, he could have turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this. If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess this is where we part ways and that might have been devastating, right, But to pursue something that is like deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the pursuit post divorce. Right, If we're going to get divorced and we're going to go through that trauma. We better be pursuing something that is like soul worthy, right, you better be. We're going to go through all of that, And so having a conversation like that's, yes, scary, nothing wrong with you. If it's anxiety provoking, all you got to do is eke it out I do. You don't have to feel confident about it, you don't have to not feel scared about it. You just got to get the words out right, conceice it until it starts to feel a little less scary. But I just love that word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing for that to shift and change and be influenced by safe others in our own you know, sort of growth. But that's the exact example, a version of the example I had in mind.

Yeah, scary, and that feeling I want your listeners to understand is ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with you if that feels scary, It is scary to stand in your own truth and declare them with risk. Right, he could have turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this. If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess this is where we part ways and that might have been devastating, right, But to pursue something that is like deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the pursuit post divorce. Right, If we're going to get divorced and we're going to go through that trauma. We better be pursuing something that is like soul worthy, right, you better be. We're going to go through all of that, And so having a conversation like that's, yes, scary, nothing wrong with you. If it's anxiety provoking, all you got to do is eke it out I do. You don't have to feel confident about it, you don't have to not feel scared about it. You just got to get the words out right, conceice it until it starts to feel a little less scary. But I just love that word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing for that to shift and change and be influenced by safe others in our own you know, sort of growth. But that's the exact example, a version of the example I had in mind.

A dating coach said that you should only go on a date with someone once a week when you're getting to know them. Do you think that's a good rule.

A dating coach said that you should only go on a date with someone once a week when you're getting to know them. Do you think that's a good rule.

In spite of what I've just said about I've said a number of things that are prescriptive in this case. No, I don't like over prescribing dating posts. Divorce what it should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a lot of confusion and shame and self criticism. Look in its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights a week and not getting a lot of sleep and drinking and in and around lots of different guys, and that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and overwhelmed and the opposite of grounding. I think that's something to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general, and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But I think having like a once a week is the limit, and if more, that's bad. If it less, that's bad. It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in.

In spite of what I've just said about I've said a number of things that are prescriptive in this case. No, I don't like over prescribing dating posts. Divorce what it should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a lot of confusion and shame and self criticism. Look in its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights a week and not getting a lot of sleep and drinking and in and around lots of different guys, and that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and overwhelmed and the opposite of grounding. I think that's something to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general, and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But I think having like a once a week is the limit, and if more, that's bad. If it less, that's bad. It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in.

Yeah, the rules of it all are not Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the rules of it all are not Yeah, yeah.

That's right. So again intuition, you know, back to like, Yeah, so lately I've been going out two three times a week? How does that feel to me? Is it starting to feel like I don't have as much time for self care or sleep or my kids? No shame, no criticism, Yeah, maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice a week. I wonder what that'll feel like right, you know, and just being curious as opposed to the rules, which I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean, once a week get you decide that and that feels right to you, that's great. But if you decide to do more when you're getting to know someone, I think that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory which plays out often enough that post divorce, you meet someone and filling in space with that person makes you feel less hard things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your confusion and your anger and your trauma. We want to watch out for that. If we are unable to sort of reserve time for self reflection to feel all the messy feelings, and the main culprit is dating and the time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions. I don't want to equate it to like, so if you're going out more than once a week, that means you can't do that. I just want to be conscious about it. Am I giving myself time and space and mobilizing resources to help myself heal. And if the answer is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look at that and eliminate the things that are or at least modify the things that are getting in the way.

That's right. So again intuition, you know, back to like, Yeah, so lately I've been going out two three times a week? How does that feel to me? Is it starting to feel like I don't have as much time for self care or sleep or my kids? No shame, no criticism, Yeah, maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice a week. I wonder what that'll feel like right, you know, and just being curious as opposed to the rules, which I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean, once a week get you decide that and that feels right to you, that's great. But if you decide to do more when you're getting to know someone, I think that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory which plays out often enough that post divorce, you meet someone and filling in space with that person makes you feel less hard things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your confusion and your anger and your trauma. We want to watch out for that. If we are unable to sort of reserve time for self reflection to feel all the messy feelings, and the main culprit is dating and the time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions. I don't want to equate it to like, so if you're going out more than once a week, that means you can't do that. I just want to be conscious about it. Am I giving myself time and space and mobilizing resources to help myself heal. And if the answer is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look at that and eliminate the things that are or at least modify the things that are getting in the way.

Right, speaking of rules, what do you think about books like the rules or men are from Mars and women are for wherever other planet? I can't remember Venus Venus?

Right, speaking of rules, what do you think about books like the rules or men are from Mars and women are for wherever other planet? I can't remember Venus Venus?

Yes?

Yes?

Today? Do those kinds of books help?

Today? Do those kinds of books help?

Look? I mean I think some of those concepts were created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean, none of us are strangers for the idea that like men and women oftentimes think differently and are or less emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having like a language to talk about it is it can be useful, like with ourselves between friends with a partner. So they have utility because they make those things concretized in a way that like we can wrap our brain around as opposed to just like the feeling of all those experiences. Having said that, I think dialogue and conversation and nuance and like the self check in pattern that we're talking about is your best tool, not a like chapter three pages.

Look? I mean I think some of those concepts were created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean, none of us are strangers for the idea that like men and women oftentimes think differently and are or less emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having like a language to talk about it is it can be useful, like with ourselves between friends with a partner. So they have utility because they make those things concretized in a way that like we can wrap our brain around as opposed to just like the feeling of all those experiences. Having said that, I think dialogue and conversation and nuance and like the self check in pattern that we're talking about is your best tool, not a like chapter three pages.

You know, let me just hold on.

You know, let me just hold on.

This is what must be happening. Instead, look in yourself, what is happening? What do I understand about it? How does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can I say more about it? And what's ever going on with the person in front of us being able? I mean it depends on the situation. Show I'm over generalizing, but to do a version of what you said you did in your circumstance, like huh, I'm feeling this thing or I'm thinking about this thing, like I just want to say it out loud. What do you think? You know that we if we get our head to into books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves and in dialogue with our potential partners, and if our potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is delivered in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think about that.

This is what must be happening. Instead, look in yourself, what is happening? What do I understand about it? How does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can I say more about it? And what's ever going on with the person in front of us being able? I mean it depends on the situation. Show I'm over generalizing, but to do a version of what you said you did in your circumstance, like huh, I'm feeling this thing or I'm thinking about this thing, like I just want to say it out loud. What do you think? You know that we if we get our head to into books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves and in dialogue with our potential partners, and if our potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is delivered in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think about that.

If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting over your ex spouse, what should we do? I mean, what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we don't stay stuck. That's the worst when you just can't get over it.

If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting over your ex spouse, what should we do? I mean, what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we don't stay stuck. That's the worst when you just can't get over it.

Yes, yes, yes, it is the worst. It's deeply painful to go through all the things that we're talking about and still of the.

Yes, yes, yes, it is the worst. It's deeply painful to go through all the things that we're talking about and still of the.

Person, especially if that person is already dating someone else moved on.

Person, especially if that person is already dating someone else moved on.

It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a pleasant concept to consider, but it's like a death that induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial, all the bargaining, you know, all that stuff that is a little bit cliche, but like, oh so true, you know. And there's no avoiding that. There's no amount of like dating or bashing him, or a therapy or whatever other tools you might mobilize that can be a shortcut of that. You're gonna mon it, you're going to agrieve it, and you're going to feel the things. And that season of life is a little bit of a dark night of the soul, right, it is really, really, really had to get through so paradoxically, leaning in here it is here, it is, I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of myself in every way I can think of, and not expecting it to feel like better or okay in the short run. And I'm like allowing myself to sit in it so that as it begins to pass through, which it always does. I remind clients all the time. Name a feeling state you've had that hasn't changed eventually, No such thing. It does change. It does change, and more eventually, maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now or twelve months now, shipped and change eventually. And so it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up and out from your body in a safe way, and just like I said, curate, cultivating as many resources as possible as you get through it, being really kind and graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't say time, when you have space to start gently thinking about why this person is not a safe choice for you any longer. Right, And if the only thing on the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough. That's not a safe choice for you anymore, even if everything else about them is amazing, which is usually not the case. But even if it is, that renders it an unsafe choice for you. And that doesn't mean it's easily accepted, but it's something to start orienting yourself around. I can't choose, it doesn't choose me. I can't invest in something that isn't reciprocated, and gently starting to understand the part of you that's willing to do that for two.

It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a pleasant concept to consider, but it's like a death that induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial, all the bargaining, you know, all that stuff that is a little bit cliche, but like, oh so true, you know. And there's no avoiding that. There's no amount of like dating or bashing him, or a therapy or whatever other tools you might mobilize that can be a shortcut of that. You're gonna mon it, you're going to agrieve it, and you're going to feel the things. And that season of life is a little bit of a dark night of the soul, right, it is really, really, really had to get through so paradoxically, leaning in here it is here, it is, I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of myself in every way I can think of, and not expecting it to feel like better or okay in the short run. And I'm like allowing myself to sit in it so that as it begins to pass through, which it always does. I remind clients all the time. Name a feeling state you've had that hasn't changed eventually, No such thing. It does change. It does change, and more eventually, maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now or twelve months now, shipped and change eventually. And so it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up and out from your body in a safe way, and just like I said, curate, cultivating as many resources as possible as you get through it, being really kind and graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't say time, when you have space to start gently thinking about why this person is not a safe choice for you any longer. Right, And if the only thing on the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough. That's not a safe choice for you anymore, even if everything else about them is amazing, which is usually not the case. But even if it is, that renders it an unsafe choice for you. And that doesn't mean it's easily accepted, but it's something to start orienting yourself around. I can't choose, it doesn't choose me. I can't invest in something that isn't reciprocated, and gently starting to understand the part of you that's willing to do that for two.

Oover reminds me just like this hard this hard truth that I had when I was going through it was the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who doesn't love you back? And that resonated for me in my times of missing and wanting and attaching to things. I would say that to myself and I would be like, I would hate hearing it. Then it started to become like, Okay, this is a feeling. It's going to pass. This is temporary. I know this only lasts for like three minutes, this intense feeling of hurt and pain, And then I would replace that with he is not an option for you anymore. In my mind, that is not an option, So look somewhere else.

Oover reminds me just like this hard this hard truth that I had when I was going through it was the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who doesn't love you back? And that resonated for me in my times of missing and wanting and attaching to things. I would say that to myself and I would be like, I would hate hearing it. Then it started to become like, Okay, this is a feeling. It's going to pass. This is temporary. I know this only lasts for like three minutes, this intense feeling of hurt and pain, And then I would replace that with he is not an option for you anymore. In my mind, that is not an option, So look somewhere else.

Yes, it is a deeply painful process to not be chosen, and there's no way around that. But recognizing that truth and building a relationship with it is critical because we can't let ourselves orient our heart, mind, body, sould is someone who doesn't choose us. It's the ultimate self betrayal. Yeah. So it is with great care that we continue to like gently pick ourselves up and place ourselves on another path, because that path we don't get to be chosen, we don't get the love that we deserve. And it's like with great sadness and despair to remove ourselves there. But we must, we.

Yes, it is a deeply painful process to not be chosen, and there's no way around that. But recognizing that truth and building a relationship with it is critical because we can't let ourselves orient our heart, mind, body, sould is someone who doesn't choose us. It's the ultimate self betrayal. Yeah. So it is with great care that we continue to like gently pick ourselves up and place ourselves on another path, because that path we don't get to be chosen, we don't get the love that we deserve. And it's like with great sadness and despair to remove ourselves there. But we must, we.

Must, we must survive. Yeah. I love our conversation. Thank you so much.

Must, we must survive. Yeah. I love our conversation. Thank you so much.

Oh, have such a pleasure, such an important conversation you have I live.

Oh, have such a pleasure, such an important conversation you have I live.

Yes, thank you for being with us. Yes, of course that conversation with doctor Hillary was so incredibly helpful for even me. I've been divorced for ten plus years and I got so much out of it. And I really hope that everybody listening who is in the position of thinking about a divorce, in a divorce, just had a divorce. I hope that you got some really good info from this pod. And I just I know you can do this, you will get past this, and we are here to help you. So please please, if you want to call us for advice one eight four four four I do pod. That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three, or you can email us at idopod at iHeartRadio dot com, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at ID Part two pod, and be sure to check out all the information in our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us. I Do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.

Yes, thank you for being with us. Yes, of course that conversation with doctor Hillary was so incredibly helpful for even me. I've been divorced for ten plus years and I got so much out of it. And I really hope that everybody listening who is in the position of thinking about a divorce, in a divorce, just had a divorce. I hope that you got some really good info from this pod. And I just I know you can do this, you will get past this, and we are here to help you. So please please, if you want to call us for advice one eight four four four I do pod. That's eight four four four four three six seven sixty three, or you can email us at idopod at iHeartRadio dot com, follow us on Instagram and TikTok at ID Part two pod, and be sure to check out all the information in our show notes. Make sure to rate us and review us. I Do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.