How well do you know yourself? Pretty well, you'd think GIFN. And you spend all day every day together, but how much of that time is quality time? And how much of it is swallowed up by distraction? As a practicing Muslim, Susan Carland has been praying five times a day every day for decades now. And when you are as busy as Susan, who is an academic, an author, and a TV presenter, her prayer times are often the only peaceful, reflective moments of her day. So how has dedicating time every single day to this powerful ritual improved Susan's ability to focus, bring her a sense of inner peace, and helped her get to know herself even better. My name is doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show about how to help you do your best work. On today's quick Win episode, we go back to an interview from the past and I pick out a quick win that you can apply today. In today's show, I speak with Susan Carland about the power of a daily ritual. Do you have a daily or weekly ritual that has made a really big positive improvement to your life over the last few years.

How well do you know yourself? Pretty well, you'd think GIFN. And you spend all day every day together, but how much of that time is quality time? And how much of it is swallowed up by distraction? As a practicing Muslim, Susan Carland has been praying five times a day every day for decades now. And when you are as busy as Susan, who is an academic, an author, and a TV presenter, her prayer times are often the only peaceful, reflective moments of her day. So how has dedicating time every single day to this powerful ritual improved Susan's ability to focus, bring her a sense of inner peace, and helped her get to know herself even better. My name is doctor amanthe Imber. I'm an organizational psychologist the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a show about how to help you do your best work. On today's quick Win episode, we go back to an interview from the past and I pick out a quick win that you can apply today. In today's show, I speak with Susan Carland about the power of a daily ritual. Do you have a daily or weekly ritual that has made a really big positive improvement to your life over the last few years.

Yeah, I do have one, and I recognize that this is one that maybe a lot of people can't relate. But you're interviewing me, so you get my answers, and you know, I mean, obviously people can't see me, so they might not be able to tell I'm Muslim. I'm a practicing Muslim, and so as a Muslim, I pray five times a day and it's a ritualistic prayer. And the reason I think this has been really good for me in terms of changing my life for the better, I think there's a few reasons. And I say this knowing you know, organized religion is not particularly popular at the moment, so I get that. But from my experience, the first thing is praying five times a day. It's a real discipline. And you know, from anything we do that takes discipline, exercise, committing to writing for thirty minutes a day, whatever, the benefit in having that discipline of doing something even when you don't really particularly feel like it, there's so much benefit in that. So there's a benefit in you know, you know, often I've got to get up early before I want you to do the first prayer, and that's hard, and that's good. It's good to do the hard thing you don't want to do as a form of discipline. So there's that. But I also think, you know, in a time of I suppose main character energy, everything's about the individual and hedonism. It's an important reminder for me of it's very clarifying in terms of my place in the universe and that I'm not the main character of everything. And I think for the final reason, it's very much like checking a map five times a day. I'm looking at my map and saying, am I being the kind of person that I want to be? Am I going in the direction that I want to go? So it's it's a very important spiritual discipline that I feel like I need in my life. I suppose the same way people talk about meditating or just going to the gym, you know, it's this is their discipline and it has all these knock on effects.

Yeah, I do have one, and I recognize that this is one that maybe a lot of people can't relate. But you're interviewing me, so you get my answers, and you know, I mean, obviously people can't see me, so they might not be able to tell I'm Muslim. I'm a practicing Muslim, and so as a Muslim, I pray five times a day and it's a ritualistic prayer. And the reason I think this has been really good for me in terms of changing my life for the better, I think there's a few reasons. And I say this knowing you know, organized religion is not particularly popular at the moment, so I get that. But from my experience, the first thing is praying five times a day. It's a real discipline. And you know, from anything we do that takes discipline, exercise, committing to writing for thirty minutes a day, whatever, the benefit in having that discipline of doing something even when you don't really particularly feel like it, there's so much benefit in that. So there's a benefit in you know, you know, often I've got to get up early before I want you to do the first prayer, and that's hard, and that's good. It's good to do the hard thing you don't want to do as a form of discipline. So there's that. But I also think, you know, in a time of I suppose main character energy, everything's about the individual and hedonism. It's an important reminder for me of it's very clarifying in terms of my place in the universe and that I'm not the main character of everything. And I think for the final reason, it's very much like checking a map five times a day. I'm looking at my map and saying, am I being the kind of person that I want to be? Am I going in the direction that I want to go? So it's it's a very important spiritual discipline that I feel like I need in my life. I suppose the same way people talk about meditating or just going to the gym, you know, it's this is their discipline and it has all these knock on effects.

This one really is that for me, I'm curious about the fact that it's five times a day, why it's five times a day, and also at what points in the day is that happening? Can you tell me more about that?

This one really is that for me, I'm curious about the fact that it's five times a day, why it's five times a day, and also at what points in the day is that happening? Can you tell me more about that?

So they're kind of windows of time based on where the sun is, so it's not as in a prayer to the sun, but it's just based on that is how the time is calculated. The first one is before sunrise, so that's why you know in summer we're getting up really early, like it could be like four thirty, we're getting up to do it. Then the next one is around midday, the third one is around mid afternoon, the fourth one is at sort of at dusk, and the last one's at night. But they're windows of time, so it's not like right on the dot at twelve oh three, drop everything and pray immediately. There's you know, you've got a couple of hours to do it in and so and for that reason, it means because Muslims can pray anywhere that's clean. I've prayed in a lot of funny places in the world. I've prayed in movie theaters, I've prayed at the MCG, I've prayed in parks, car parks, the footpath. And again, it's about that kind of reconfiguring of ourselves, about going okay, no matter what else is going on in my life, what is actually most important, you know, reminding myself it's very easy to get caught up in the craziness of life and also the craziness of myself and just to bring myself back to focus and purpose and clarity.

So they're kind of windows of time based on where the sun is, so it's not as in a prayer to the sun, but it's just based on that is how the time is calculated. The first one is before sunrise, so that's why you know in summer we're getting up really early, like it could be like four thirty, we're getting up to do it. Then the next one is around midday, the third one is around mid afternoon, the fourth one is at sort of at dusk, and the last one's at night. But they're windows of time, so it's not like right on the dot at twelve oh three, drop everything and pray immediately. There's you know, you've got a couple of hours to do it in and so and for that reason, it means because Muslims can pray anywhere that's clean. I've prayed in a lot of funny places in the world. I've prayed in movie theaters, I've prayed at the MCG, I've prayed in parks, car parks, the footpath. And again, it's about that kind of reconfiguring of ourselves, about going okay, no matter what else is going on in my life, what is actually most important, you know, reminding myself it's very easy to get caught up in the craziness of life and also the craziness of myself and just to bring myself back to focus and purpose and clarity.

So what does that period of time look like when you're in prayer.

So what does that period of time look like when you're in prayer.

Yeah, so it's actually very it's a very physical thing. So it's for Muslims we kind of believe that it's our heart, mind, and body. You're all at prayer or all in this act of worship, I guess. So if you've ever seen a Muslim pray, you know there's standing, there's bowing and prostrating. There are these formal ritual acts that these motions that we go through that, like I said, we feel like our whole set elves, every part of ourselves is engaged in this act. It's not just a mental activity. Every part of ourselves is reminding ourselves who we are and where we're.

Yeah, so it's actually very it's a very physical thing. So it's for Muslims we kind of believe that it's our heart, mind, and body. You're all at prayer or all in this act of worship, I guess. So if you've ever seen a Muslim pray, you know there's standing, there's bowing and prostrating. There are these formal ritual acts that these motions that we go through that, like I said, we feel like our whole set elves, every part of ourselves is engaged in this act. It's not just a mental activity. Every part of ourselves is reminding ourselves who we are and where we're.

Going, and what's going on in your mind in terms of the thoughts that you're thinking.

Going, and what's going on in your mind in terms of the thoughts that you're thinking.

Yeah, that's a good question. And it's so there are ritualistic things that we say, and then there are also extra parts where we can say whatever we want. And it's really interesting. You know, five times a day when we are praying, and the Muslims all over the world, we all pray exactly the same in the same language. We all pray in Arabic. So I could join a prayer, a congregational prayer right now in Nigeria, Turkey, Malaysia, and we're all praying exactly the same way, kind of the way Catholics used to pray, all in Latin, I think. And so we're following this prescription of that we believe, you know, has been practiced this way for hundreds, you know, more than a thousand years, that Muslims have always been praying like this. But we are also human beings, and so there will be times when I'm incredibly focused in that prayer and incredible, it's incredibly powerful and moving and emotional and peaceful and transcendent. And then there are other times where I can just feel my attention going in and out and like I'm praying but half my mind and I've got to get back ready for that meeting, and I've got to do this and whatever. That's the human condition, you know. And so again, similar to what I hear people say about meditation, you will have that monkey mind. Your mind is like a puppy, and if you're if you're harsh with that puppy, you wouldn't talle it off and yell at it. You'd be like, Okay, come on, retrain and come back, come back. I acknowledge what's going on. Okay, I'm not focusing. Bring my mind back to what I'm doing. And obviously from Wilsons, we believe who we're talking to.

Yeah, that's a good question. And it's so there are ritualistic things that we say, and then there are also extra parts where we can say whatever we want. And it's really interesting. You know, five times a day when we are praying, and the Muslims all over the world, we all pray exactly the same in the same language. We all pray in Arabic. So I could join a prayer, a congregational prayer right now in Nigeria, Turkey, Malaysia, and we're all praying exactly the same way, kind of the way Catholics used to pray, all in Latin, I think. And so we're following this prescription of that we believe, you know, has been practiced this way for hundreds, you know, more than a thousand years, that Muslims have always been praying like this. But we are also human beings, and so there will be times when I'm incredibly focused in that prayer and incredible, it's incredibly powerful and moving and emotional and peaceful and transcendent. And then there are other times where I can just feel my attention going in and out and like I'm praying but half my mind and I've got to get back ready for that meeting, and I've got to do this and whatever. That's the human condition, you know. And so again, similar to what I hear people say about meditation, you will have that monkey mind. Your mind is like a puppy, and if you're if you're harsh with that puppy, you wouldn't talle it off and yell at it. You'd be like, Okay, come on, retrain and come back, come back. I acknowledge what's going on. Okay, I'm not focusing. Bring my mind back to what I'm doing. And obviously from Wilsons, we believe who we're talking to.

That is that is absolutely fascinating. How does that work though, Like when I mean you're a super busy person, Like, in my mind, how how are you finding the time to do this, particularly for the ones that fall in the middle of the day as opposed to it the tail ends of the day.

That is that is absolutely fascinating. How does that work though, Like when I mean you're a super busy person, Like, in my mind, how how are you finding the time to do this, particularly for the ones that fall in the middle of the day as opposed to it the tail ends of the day.

Yeah, well, I mean the first thing to know, it's not like prayer has to go for two hours, Like if you want to, it could take a couple of minutes. So it's not like a massive imposition. But if anything, I think the point you make about being super busy for me makes it even more important. I know for myself when I'm in those incredibly busy periods of work where everything stressful and too much and like it just feels like a cyclone, it gives me these five moments of stillness and again perspective like, Okay, yeah, works busy and whatever, but I'm a lot more than my job. You know, my identity is not my job. This is what I do when I pray. That's who I am, you know, and that important distinction. But like I said, it does only have to take a couple of minutes. You can pray for longer if you want. But it's not like I have to go. Guys, I'm gonna have to step out for two hours. Good luck at work without me, you know, a Muslim surgeon. Sorry, I'm out of the operation. I hope the patient survives. Like you know, it should work and be manageable in your life as well. I hope you enjoy this little quick win episode today. If you would like to listen to the full interview, you can find a link to that in the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to improve the way that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving.

Yeah, well, I mean the first thing to know, it's not like prayer has to go for two hours, Like if you want to, it could take a couple of minutes. So it's not like a massive imposition. But if anything, I think the point you make about being super busy for me makes it even more important. I know for myself when I'm in those incredibly busy periods of work where everything stressful and too much and like it just feels like a cyclone, it gives me these five moments of stillness and again perspective like, Okay, yeah, works busy and whatever, but I'm a lot more than my job. You know, my identity is not my job. This is what I do when I pray. That's who I am, you know, and that important distinction. But like I said, it does only have to take a couple of minutes. You can pray for longer if you want. But it's not like I have to go. Guys, I'm gonna have to step out for two hours. Good luck at work without me, you know, a Muslim surgeon. Sorry, I'm out of the operation. I hope the patient survives. Like you know, it should work and be manageable in your life as well. I hope you enjoy this little quick win episode today. If you would like to listen to the full interview, you can find a link to that in the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to improve the way that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving.

Through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at howiwork dot com. That's how I work dot Co. Thank you for sharing part of your day with me by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able to work and live on this beautiful land and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium and hosted by me Amantha Imba, and a big thank you to Martin Imba who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.

Through to interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at howiwork dot com. That's how I work dot Co. Thank you for sharing part of your day with me by listening to How I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able to work and live on this beautiful land and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium and hosted by me Amantha Imba, and a big thank you to Martin Imba who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise.