How Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah BayerHow Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer

Remember Being a Herb? (with Simon O'Connor of Modest Mouse)

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Published Feb 19, 2024, 11:00 AM

How Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer

Before sibling duo Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer took the comedy, music and general world by storm, they were just some lil weirdo kids. Joined by exc… 
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This week the Bayer siblings are thrilled to welcome their friend, musician Simon O'Connor! You may know Simon as the lead guitarist for Modest Mouse, touring bassist of MGMT and bassist/vocalist of Spiral Heads, but do you know if he's a total herb? Or if you are? Don't be so sure you can answer this question until the three of us define the personality characteristics of a herb and do our best herb impressions. Plus, we reminisce about having a Discman in the nineties: The time Jonah sold his Discman to Vanessa and then immediately took it back, the time Simon's discman was stolen by a former friend-turned-bully—and ponder if the Discman was even a good invention in the first place given all the skipping? Finally, in a rousing new game that was definitely named by Jonah, CONGRATULATIONS, YOU BAKED YOURSELF, we decide which of three culinary dishes we're most excited about making a comeback, despite never knowing any of them existed in the first place. So don't be a herb and check out this fantastic episode, and be sure to pre-order Simon's band Spiral Heads’ new album TIL I’M DEAD, which comes out this Friday! You can also learn more about Simon and his music over at his Instagram page. 

Hi.

I'm Vanessa Bayer and this is my brother Jonah.

We're two siblings who love to talk about our childhood in nostalgia and how it shaped us into the people we are today.

Who are very modest, if I do say so myself.

Welcome to how did We get Weird?

Jonah?

You know, I know we're both really excited for our guests today and our topic. And it reminded me, without giving too much away, of the time that you sold your discmand to me, your sony Discman to me when we were probably like in middle school.

Do you remember that vaguely? I remember it mostly from you talking about it, but how much should I get? How did do you remember how it came about? You were like, can I listen to your Discmand? I was like, I'll sell it to you.

Yeah. It was like I had gotten I don't know.

I guess I had gotten like the Janet CD, the jan At Jackson's CD Janet of course, and I really wanted to listen to it or something, and you had a discman and I was like, wow, I would be so cool to be able to listen to it.

And walk around and stuff.

So you said for forty five dollars, you can buy this discman for me. So I did, and wouldn't you know, I'd say, the next day it was back in your room.

Wow.

So it was sort of like you sold me something, but then you actually took it back and I'd always have to like go find it right right, So if you were a store, i'd say, let's put this one, this store out of business.

Right, is there an absolute racket? Yeah, sorry about that. I don't really remember it, but I believe you that it happened. And yeah, it'd be great if we could tell a story now about how is it successful? Entrepreneur? And that was one of my first deals.

Right, well, I think mom and dad made you give me the money back. Yeah, at some point, because I don't know if you remember this too, but I was a real money saver and you were kind of a spender when we were kids.

Okay, yeah, but look you're doing great now.

So it looks it's like, you know, learn those lessons when you're young, is what they say. You know, start a business, learn you know, start.

An unethical business when you're young. Get it out of your system exactly exactly. Sounds good. Well, let's let's uh Let's see what our guest has to say about this story. Guess today as a musician you may know from bands like MGMT or Modest Mouse. You can also pre order his band Spederal Heads new album Till I'm Dead Now. You can pre order it now comes up very soon. Let's welcome our old friend, Simon O'Connor. Simon, what is up?

How's it going? What's up?

Not much?

What are you?

What are you doing there?

Just hanging out? Do you mind? I have a couple.

I have a question and the sort of a theory about the story you just told. Okay, my question is how much did you charge for the disc band?

Forty five dollars?

Is that what you bought it for? How did she charge you? And how much did you buy it for?

I don't know how much I bought it for. May have gotten as a gift, I don't know. That's a good question. How much was it was? Probably around I don't know, seventy five bucks.

I think that's a good round. I don't really remember.

Yeah, we remember how money was worth a lot more than so, like, I don't know, but I think I got like a slight discount. But Jonah made up for the discount by not.

Letting Vanessa like a like if it was refurbished price.

Right, right, you gently used Yeah. Yeah.

Well I also think the reason you don't remember this, Jonah, is because you took it back because it was really a non event.

In your life.

Yeah, because you had a disc man and then one evening you didn't have it, and then you had it again, right until it inevitably broke. Yeah, and then you had mysterious forty five dollars, which what Vanessa said, it sounds like you spent immediately.

Yeah. Why do you think Vanessa held onto this memory for thirty years.

Because she got ripped off?

Yeah? Right, fair, that's fair.

Yeah. And you're the and you're the little sister of Vanessa. Is this cool? Yeah?

So that's also another thing. My sister remembers all this crazy shit. Then I'm like, I don't remember that. I think it's like she remembers sort of like she claims that trauma hires her by forcing her to watch Pink Floyd's The Wall right when she was three. But the truth of the matter is I had never seen Pink Floyd's The Wall, and I.

Was watching it, and I think she came into the room, you know what I mean. So that's like the little context.

I wasn't like doing the clockwork orange thing, you know, just putting her there, and I was unaware that she was in the room maybe or I didn't know what was going to happen in the movie. You hadn't seen it, right, yeah?

Right?

Do you have a memory like for music? Like for me, Vanessa has a lot more childhood memories, but with like I remember like the first Bad Religion, now My God and every song, Like for music stuff, I have a very good memory, what about you?

Yes, I like I remember sort of the full lineups of shows I've been to, the full lineups of shows I haven't been to.

And I think.

That's the way I create clarity and cosmos and this chaotic life is by making sort of lists and things like that. And they're all music related. But that's but I have other memories too, But you say you don't, you just that's own.

Now.

I have other memories, but those, for some reason just stick stick a lot better.

What's the first CD you ever bought?

Both the Yeah, I know mine for sure? What was yours?

N SA?

Mine was Tori Amos Under the Pink and I got a five CD changer that year, which Jonah, you were like, don't get this five CD changer. It's a really crappy brand. You should get the three CD changer that's Sony. And I was like, sorry, Jonah, I want to put all my CDs in here, And then I only had like two of them, like two CDs total.

Was it the Iowa the Iowa? It could have been three CD changer.

It might have been. It might have been.

Those things broke.

Yeah.

It was always like or.

And then be like.

Yeah, no, no, no, I just I want you to go in. And then, you know, I think a mistake is that if you give it a gentle nudge, the kind of the tray would go in, and the gentle nudge over time becomes a less gentle nudge.

Yeah, that's right.

That's it again.

One day you it won't open and you lost three Tory amsds.

You know.

But the thing that this also had, which I think the Sony one maybe didn't, was it had not only five CD changer, but two cassette players, which, as you will recall, having two cassette players is so important because you can make mixtapes.

I think, or something to be dubbin.

Did it have a karaoke function?

Oh? I don't think it did.

I think it was pretty much like five CDs, two tapes, see what you can do with it.

Okay, mine had one, and I don't think I knew that it had one for about a year, and I was like, why does all music just sound horrible? Because it was doing this weird thing where it would kind of try to sort of eq out where they think the vocals are.

So I'm just like, well, I was going to ask you what the karaoke function was, So was it for CDs specifically?

Who's for all music?

It was just whatever's coming out of those speakers and like so I was just like, I don't know. I'd be like, this is a weird ACDC record because there's no vocals or guitar, you know what I mean.

It's like taking out a certain frequency or something or things vocal yeah wow yeah yeah, but you.

Don't know to turn that off? That must have been crazy, you know.

I mean, like who's I mean, like, come on, like why is it even on there? Why?

Just I feel like it just it turns on and everything turns on. It's really proud of all the things that could do. And then, you know, for a little guy like me, I didn't know, you know, all these things. I didn't know what's going on, and I had to press that weird little silver button in the corner to make things sound normal, you know.

Cool Diamond.

What was your first CD?

I think my first CD was probably The Downward Spiral by nine Schnailles. Okay, but I also like I had tapes. My first the first tape I ever bought was True Blue by Madonna.

Okay, that's so sweet. I think Jonahs was Cocktail.

My first tape was Cocktail.

My first CD a Cocktail soundtrack from the.

Cocktail soundtrack, of course. But my first CD, Mom and Dad got me User Illusion one to two when they came out, I think with a CD player. But I had one skid Row's Slave to the Grind somewhere, and I remember it being super scandalous because it had a song called get the Fuck Out on it. Really it was like this party's over, so get the and I was like having a CD with like swearing out. It was like a huge deal. And I remember like taking it to my friend Chad's house and I was listening to it like secretly.

Oh my god, I love I love I love the curse word, like the back record and all these curse words on it. Mellow Golds. Yeah, it's in the back of my parents' car and just being like like.

Motherfucker, it's it's I've told the story before, but my mom took me to see Guns and Roses and skid Row in ninety one in Richfield, Calse when the show one Show skid Row opened on the Slave to the Grind tour and Sebastian Bach swore so much on stage that it like blew my mind. I was like, people can talk like this, like I'd heard like maybe you know once in a while in the movie, and then I was just like it was every other word, and I was like I didn't know that this was like possible.

Right right, It's a I feel like it was a bit much. Yeah, what I mean, you like it, but you're kind of like, all right, you know, like the curses are special. If they make the curses special, you know you're giving it all the way.

When I used to do stand up at this club Zanies in Chicago, they used to put me in the like new talent shows, and I remember the manager Bert was always like, if you swear in your like everyone got like five minutes or ten minutes, he was like, if you swear, He's like, it means your joke isn't funny. He was like, if you can do the joke without the swear word and it's still funny, it's funny. If you need the swear word for it to be funny, it's not funny.

And he was.

Basically like, I don't have respect.

He was really anti comedian swearing in their sets because he's like, it's a cop out. Yeah, and I'm not saying that's what Sebastian Bach was doing, but a little bit. It feels like, just be comfortable enough with yourself that you don't need to swear and show everybody, you know.

I agree with Bert, and I agree with you, and I do think it was what Sebastian Bach was doing. I do think he was saying, like, listen, these songs are bad.

We all know it.

We are the almost like royalty free version of what you're about to see that's gonna come on after us?

Who you all like, but you know what the fuck is up?

Or like you know, so I'm not drinking anymore, but I'm not drinking any less, motherfuckers, then you chug fucking fake jack.

Dang, he did leave the crowd. This is my clearest memory in a chant of the phrase ice ice baby fuck off, like in that like like in the cadence of the song.

Jonah, do you remember like looking at mom and being like, where are we supposed to do?

I don't know, I didn't even think your mom was there.

She was right next to me the whole time.

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

In fact, my dad was president pretty much all the first shows I went to. He went, you know, he saw Dirvana. My first show was Nirvana, but Wholes opened.

Wow, Yeah, and that was amazing.

But but Whole surfers and they played they had operation videos in the back, and I was so young that I covered my eyes with a whole set, you know what I mean. Like I was like, yeah, I like Nirvana. I'm kind of I think I was ten, maybe almost eleven.

Where was this show?

Oakland Coliseum that's where my grandparents lived, and then yeah, then and then subsequently like them. I remember the most awkward show I think I went to with him was Whole, which was like the next year, Wow, And I was eleven and we were we got up front. It was at roseland New York, and Courtney Love was not wearing underwear and had her leg up on the on the monitor and I remember being like, so that's what that is, you know what I mean? And there's yeah, and just like kin out of this sharing that moment, it was like with my dad was something that I would kind of not like to do again, or I didn't like to do that not sha.

Yeah, you know that's really shocking for a kid, that's yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah it was.

It was you know what this might be a little of a non secutor, but you know, talking about those operation videos, do you remember as a kid, you'd be flipping through the channels and then it would just be like a close up of someone doing surgery on.

The side of channel like but at night.

Yeah, like who was that for?

It was like someone sucking like the like blood out while.

They're a second to figure out like what's going on here because it's like so close up. And then you're like, this seems like this should be shown to like a medical student, like why is this on TV?

Yeah, you know, it's like okay, you know, channel eleven after ten PM it's all operation videos guy.

Was it like a Discovery predecessor or something like? I don't know why because I know now they have like those shows on TLC, the show where people get gastric bypass surgery with doctor now, right, you know, and they show sometimes the surgery like that's a section of it. But when we were kids, I don't even think gastric bypass surgery existed. I don't know what they were showing on there that is really it would be shocking.

You'd be like, why am I?

You try to just get off at as fast as like, turn your channel as fast as possible.

Doctor Now.

It has a longer name, but I think they shorten it by saying doctor now.

Is it an a oh? Or isn't it?

It's like now, I don't know how I don't I don't actually, I'm so used to them calling him doctor now. I don't think I know his full name, but I think it's my six hundred pound life is the name of the show. There's also a new show called it's called one thousand Pounds Sisters.

I've seen.

Well, Netflix has a real at me. Yeah, you're pushing that every time, I you know, like you want to watch these people.

You know, yeah, there's always it's there in tell you. My problem with those shows is you don't get a lot of follow up to see how they're doing really and there's always an enabler too. They're always usually like married or friends or relatives with someone who's big time enabler.

Like comes over with donuts.

Yeah, who's like I don't. Also, there is a there is a psychological thing. This will be interesting for you, Jonah as a mental health counselor there's a psychological thing where I think sometimes the enabler person is used to like taking care of the other person and doesn't want to like change that.

Well, yeah, because when someone when someone else is going through that change, then you have to kind of look at yourself and be like, maybe this is something I need to change in myself.

Right, is the enabler, because you know is the enabler? I guess what we see in New York as a herb. You want a herb? Is a herb is like it's like a nerd, but they're not smart.

They're kind of.

They just they want to be cool and enable, Like I want to be cool with this one thousand pounds sister and I know that, you know, she's not supposed to have this, but like she'll like me if I bring over.

You know contraband.

Is it like that or is it somebody like what is the character of the enabler?

I think it's always different, but I think it's and Jonah, you can speak to this probably, but I think it's sometimes it's like they like the dynamic they're in where they're needed by the person and the person needs them, and so they want to like keep this kind of vicious cycle going. But then sometimes you see it's like it's like the person who's going through like the weight loss thing, is like you have to get me this or I'm going to like throw a fit. Like sometimes it's like a behavioral thing that has to change with the person, like where the other person's like giving in a bunch. It's like with any kind of addict, it's like the people around them that sort of like can't stand up to them are sort of enabling them but don't even realize they're doing it.

So they are no sort of about it.

I would say I would say they are herbs in that case, because I think they're saying, like, well, our friendship is kind of based on this sort of you know payment, and I'm nervous our friendship will not survive removing this kind of sort of situation that we have going on, you know, meaning that they don't have a lot of substance besides the actual things that they bring, whether it be heroin or whether it be a chili cong q.

Soo right now? Where would you say?

Oh?

Right?

So that's where a herb would come in.

Like in everyday life, a herb is just you know, how do we recognize a herb?

Like one of your shows, would a herb be like a guy comes up as like Simon, I brought you some like guitar strings? Can you know like that good voice?

I think anyone who brings me anything.

Is a good choice. That's like exactly what herbs sound like. I feel like you It's like.

Whoa who goes to her voice?

Please?

Yeah, I was at your last show.

I'm trying to do it based on Jonahs, I was at your last show and I wrote down the set list and actually think you guys did I actually think you guys did a better set list this week than you did last on the last tour.

See that's not a herb, because a herbs more of a year.

That's more like a German person who was like, you know, I saw last time you played was a way better show. You looked a lot younger, and I was like, well, it's five It was five years ago, so that's how fucking time works.

Fucking you know. And then I thought it was boring. It was flasted, it was bloated. You just did not enjoy yourselves up there. I don't know what you're doing. This sound was terrible, blah blah blah. I'm like, well, who are you in white? Backstage?

I think I'd actually just realized that I'm a herb because time and last time you guys I saw you play us are the Pixies. I like, requested a song months in advance, then you played it, and then afterwards I till my ust. I was like, oh, they haven't played the song and like seven months according to my dad. You know, that's a total herb.

According to Setless FM, You're like, look, see, but I think I was just flexing my power. I think I was more like, see, would you be a herb if you asked me to play this song and I didn't play it? Like would you or it is because I played it. I enabled you to be a herb.

I think you enabled me because I actually forgot about it because it was so long ago. And then you were like, I think it's gonna be that, and I was like, it blew my mind. But so I would have totally forgot about it. But then I felt like a true herb when you played it. But I was also like, it was awesome.

The herb would be a good villain like doctor now and the herb yeah, you know what I mean. The herb was just I feel like a herb, So Vanessa, I feel like a herb is more kind of like I think I said this already, like a yes man, like a herbs, kind.

Of like, hey, you guys are like tequila.

And I'm like, it's eleven am and we have a show it all right, right, I'm gonna I'm gonna have a little drink, you know, just to get I drink all the time. Like, okay, you guys smoke weed. You're like, oh you ever heard this band?

Is it?

You're a band? You know what I mean? That's kind of.

Right, right, right, right, right right, Well, just to say doctor Now is the opposite of a herb, because if you watch that show, they'll be like, He'll be like, your goal was to lose thirty Like the people have to lose a certain amount of weight before they can get gastric bypass surgery, and so he'll be like, your goal this month was to lose thirty pounds and you gain two pounds. And the person will be like, well, I like hurt my ankle, so that's why I did it. And he'll be like, so you hurt your ankle, so that kept you so that made you eat more food. And like he's like really blunt with people, and it's like, hey, doctor, now maybe you could be a little more of a herb and then.

These people would, like, you know, take to you a little more.

But at the end of the day usually the people listen to him and he gets to do the surgery, and that rocks.

Yeah. I think everyone should. I think it's important that everybody has a.

Little herb in him, you know, yeah, yeah.

Or else. You know.

It basically means like you gotta think at least some people are cooler than you. And yeah, now I feel like I'm sound like an asshole because you know that you don't know you don't think that. But you just wanted to hear that song, and I liked I wanted to play that song.

And that's all it was.

It was a completely normal, non herb related interaction.

Okay, Because as we were talking about it, I was like, this is kind of a description of me, like this moment.

Okay, if you were a herb, you would have you asked an event. If you were a herb, you would have the minute you got there said it again, and then about like an hour later you would have been like, could I.

See the set list? Is it on there? And then right right and then.

Like right before I went on stage, kind of like mouth the name of the song, you know what I mean? That's Herbie, which.

It was never ending math equation.

Yes, that's a lot. So what are you doing?

Yeah, you're right. I didn't. I didn't bring it up. Yeah yeah, I wasn't like, hey, Simon, how are you doing? By the way, Yeah, so yeah, but I got to use to have voice more. I think it's good.

It's good.

It's a really good character voice for you.

John, you could play the herb.

I mean, I don't think that there's a room for the herb on Doctor from what Vanessa's described, it doesn't seem like the type of show I think I went with a sort of the idea of it was a kind of a Stanley Kubrick villain and not an actual reality show with a real doctor.

Yeah, Vanessa, you kind of seems like you watch kind of a lot of these types of shows. Is that?

Yeah, if you've if you've seen it, I watched it. That's not necessarily true, but I watch a lot of weird stuff, and I find there's value in.

Pretty much all TV except a couple of two three shows.

And I'm not going to name on here. I'm not thinking of anything specific.

Well, maybe the surgery channel is could go.

I thought there was Court TV.

What were you going to say, Jonah, I was going to say, Vanessa. One thing that's interesting about your TV habits and Simon. I don't know if you know anyone like this is Vanessa's very strong feelings about commercials. Like she'll be like a big hey, Vanessa, how's it going. She'll be like, I'm just so this commercial, like the song is so annoying. And then I'll be like, Okay, anyways, I think we need to work on the podcast.

Now there's a commercial and I won't say what it's for, but Jonah and I were reading this article and I sent it to Jonah and this like pop up commercial came up of this commercial that I cannot stand, and I.

Was like, isn't this so stupid?

Like I have a lot of critiques for this commercial, and Jonah was like, yeah, I guess so, and I was like, look at this guy here, so it sucks, and Jonah was just sort of like, yeah, I don't really, I'm not really watching the commerce. I'm kind of reading the article. And I was like, but it's getting in your way and you hate it. But yeah, I have really strong feelings about commercials. I think it's because when I lived in Chicago, what I would audition for and like one of the only things I would get paid for was to do commercials. So okay, like the thing that sort of kept me afloat was doing commercials. So I'm very into that. Like I really feel like I know the process backwards and forwards of commercials, and I think when commercials are good, they're so good, and then when they're bad, I'm like, you guys, you were being lazy.

Yeah, So it's kind of it.

It triggers you, for lack of a better terms, In some ways, it brings you back to a place where you maybe not knowing at the time, but now, no, sorry, I'm doing your job. Not knowing at the time, but I realized that that maybe you weren't happy and you and you wish you just said fuck you to everybody, and now you can just say fuck you to the TV.

Well, No, I actually liked doing commercials, but I just feel like I was just involved.

In them a lot more. It was a lot more of like what I did. I don't know.

I just I also like home shopping. I like all of it. I just feel like there's I'm very critical.

You like watching TV where they're trying to sell you something?

Yes, Jonah, remember you and Vicky were watching some weird home shopping network and you were asked, there's so many ones come on late at night and I love watching those.

We found one and I wish I remember the name where this They could have these these same like four people working. This guy would be like the mine is closing, and this rubyond this is the last one ever coming out of the mine. It's three thousand dollars. We're gonna loa the place from three thousand dollars to one hundred dollars.

The mine was he dressed as a miner. No, no, somebody works in a mine. It was so funny.

He's like, I have these contacts that the mine, the mine is closing. This is the only mind that minees is like, I mean, it was like incredible, but then he kind of said that about everything.

So right right right right, yeah, I show kind of an antique thing like he's trying to sell coal.

Was he some No, it was like it was like these pres stones, but they were all like rubicon or like zorbican or like these vary like those.

There's a lot of there's a real following for gems too, like that's a whole and there is a there are I think more than one late night like gem seller, either selling jewelry or selling you can just get this gem and have it and like this would originally sell for fifteen hundred dollars, but we're going to give it to you for nine ninety nine if you okay. Yeah, And then they have like a thing on the screen where it's like this many sold, this many sold, and then they'll be like it's gone. Wow, and you just don't know what's real unless you're watching QBC or HSN, which.

So do they do they kind of imply that there's any sort of mystical powers of the gems, or they're just talking about the actual monitor.

So they're basically like talking about how valuable they're going to be, and like how this is the most incredible opportunity you've ever had, and if you blow it then you'll never get the chance again.

Those are the herbs of home shopping, those little channels, because real home shopping, as I said, is I think UVC and also you know HSN, but like everybody else is a herb because they're just like, we have stuff too, but you know you can only watch it late at night and we're gonna absolutely rip you off.

Yeah yeah, I mean, so is home shopping it's different than infomercials or is it kind of tied into the same thing. Are they making up a problem like infomercials do for you just like a.

Big infomercials, I think you've zeroed in on what they are is they've made up a problem or zeroed in on a problem that they're solving, whereas home shopping you're buying everything from you know, a beautiful blouse to a little angel figuring that you can display on your mantle when all the kids come home over break.

So it's not somebody like tying his shoes and going like, oh, I hate this.

Once in a while, they'll have that stuff. Once in a while, they'll have that stuff.

Wait.

Sorry, the guy was tying his shoes and then what was his.

He's like, I hate he kept trying to tie and.

Then what's the infomercial for Bell Crow?

Yeah, I guess that's good. One of my favorite memories of early Internet was like those QVC bloopers where I would be like climbing a ladder and you fall off and it was like for some.

Reason, knife or whatever.

Yeah, he's messing with the katana knife and he's like, I got me, got me good, got me good.

That's pretty amazing.

It's the best stuff out there.

I would say, we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back with Simon O'Connor, And we're back Simon really quickly before we get into today's topic. You were on my old podcast many years ago going off track, Yes, and you talked about selling hot dogs at Yankee Stadium.

That right, didn't sell hot dogs. I sold lemonade. I started as a mere lemon cutter for the lemonade stand, then ended up selling lemonade, cotton candy, and Dippin' dots. If you're familiar with Dippin' dots, Oh sure, yeah.

Yes, ice cream of the future. Yeah, now where is it today?

It's the future exactly.

I think I've seen it. Maybe I've seen sort of, I don't know if I've actually seen. I've seen stands, but I'm not sure if they're abandoned.

Have you ever heard do you remember how kids would go, not to interrupt, how kids would go like, this is better than regular ice cream. I'd be like, no, it's not, you moron. It just tasted like a bunch of ice like. It was so annoying when kids would be like, this is actually really good, it's better than ice cream.

Well, here's the interesting thing. So at Yankee Stadium, Dippin' Dots claimed that they are kosher, right, unlike the other ice so the Kosher Ice Crew, and that's not true. Nothing at Yankee stating with kosher.

Okay, okay, but what was a little inside it?

But like you know, it's like I remember sometimes the kind of the hasidic newspaper would come by and like do a little check, and I remember having to uh walking, you know, walking because you know, it was a huge stity of many different stands, and at that point I was a manager and like watching these acidic guys sort of grill these like nineteen year old pat Rican kids from the Bronx about if they washed the scoops that go into sort of the sorbet in a different sink then and right, and they're like no, and I was like no, say yes, you know what I mean, yes, yes, And I remember like just and I was like as soon as I saw that happening, I would kind of run up to all the other stands like a bunch of guys in suits beards. They're going to ask you, but scoops, you watch these different sink. Then then they're like okay, okay, So I think that dippin' dots may be found their angle by uh, I guess it could be co sure if it was if they were gave us instructions and what that meant or gave the but uh maybe that was their sort of angle to why some people would choose that over the other.

Right, Well, I think if it has to be blessed or something by a rabbi, and then also you can't mix milk and meat, but I think it can be dairy as long as it's.

What I've just told you.

I learned at that exact moment in the story that I've told, Like, I knew about the you know, it being blessed by a rabbi, but I didn't know about this sort of washing protocol.

Oh right, okay, okay, heard them ask.

So it's based entirely on that. I don't know.

I don't know what the protocol is. It can't yeah, right, it can't go with dishes for non kosher things.

I think it can't touch stuff that's touched non kosher stuff.

I mean, meanwhile, everything was just thrown into like a gigantic sort of vat where like hot dog juice was poured on it like that. Right.

It's like it's like, if you're if you have specific diye terry restrictions like that, and you're going to Yankee Stadium, probably the safest thing to do is bring your own.

What was your what was your favorite thing to sell? The Dippin' dots, lemonade or the I forgot the other thing.

I liked making cotton candy, and I would do that for a while. And then when you make cotton candy sometimes because it's so light that it would just sort of like little clouds of sugar would kind of fly through the air and I would suck them up, which grossed everybody out, but I just thought it was amazing. I felt like I was in space, you know, just like food literally is flying by and I go right there and people were like, can you fucking stop really putting me off? But uh, I think I like selling Dippin' dots because I liked saying ice cream of the future.

Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, you know, so you know you were I know you spent a lot of time on Saint Mark's. You remember that that Japanese restaurant that had the ice the cotton candy machine outside. I think with maybe Kanka, that you could make your own at the end of the meal. Wasn't that was a cool? It's still there.

And then that's kind of where I'm like, you know, walking down to Saint Mark's and like check this out and just fucking watching all these people.

But I'm like, how do you do this? Make I just make the perfect little.

Con Oh yeah, you must have been so good. I almost always know how to do it. Yeah, they would that suggest to tell you. They would give you like a little cup at the end of the meal with like this like powdery stuff in it, and then they had like a big machine outside and then you would kind of poured poured in it with a stick and kind of like twirl it around and you could like kind of make your own cotton candy.

That's cool. Was it not there anymore when I lived there?

I think it's probably still there. Were you, like as a young punk in NYC? Were you hanging on Saint Mark's a lot, just like talking about you know, cross punk and.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, well that's.

That was you were just act like acted like such a herb.

Yeah. I was going to say the same thing.

I was just like back in the day.

Yeah, like, hey, Vanessa, what do you want to talk about? I can't deal with fucking herb?

Yes I did. I did. I did talk about crust punk Jonah.

Any other questions, I'm going to sign off.

Did you did you go to punk shows?

What were some of your favorite venues, because there's like a lot of venues that I like, Yeah.

Have you ever heard of the clash? But yeah, I would go to Saint Mark's too, you know, because that's where I would see people who had mohawks and then stand around them like a herb, and and then eventually like laugh at something they said, you know, and move two inches towards them, laugh at another thing they said, and then you know, after a good year of doing that, I was in.

Nice incredible well, speaking of that our topic today, Sony Diskman something that you haven't come in general.

We're not brand brand, no brand.

We're not. Yeah, just disman in general. Although the Discman is like a Sony thing, like I guess it's like a portable CD player.

Maybe they invented it.

Yeah, they invented the Discman, like the that's like a Sony thing.

Did they invent the Walkman too, because I feel like Sony Walkman is a thing I think they did.

Yes, I think they did. I think I think they cornered both of those markets.

Those bastards. They've done it again.

Yeah, you can get a discman now, or you can get a portable CD player by like costs now or something. But you're not getting a Sony Discman.

Do you remember Koby?

Like you could buy a Kobe Discman at like Bodega's. I mean, this might be a very new you know, which is kind of like it looked exactly like the Sony logo but didn't say the same thing, and they were very cheap.

Yeah. Yeah, But what was your what was your relationship with this? Why did you kind of what makes you feel nostalgic about the portable CD player?

Well, when we first talked about, I just thought about something that kind of, uh, something in my in my past that I at a certain time in my life I absolutely depended on that. When I think back on it was a pretty ridiculous kind of invention in a sense that like you kind of had to really and less so unless you had one of those like you know, the shock Wave Sports.

Discman, you know what I'm talking about.

They kind of like they have like you know, close close them like tupperware, Like they have those little bitch latches on them, and they can actually like you can put the disc man in your backpack and walk and you could actually hear a song without constant skipping. But like every other discman like you kind of like had to hold it like a pizza, you know what I mean, like walk slowly or like or like a tray full of martinis, like you know what I mean. And it was like this is and like walk slowly or else you just like you'll hear like.

You know what I mean, Like maybe they'd have a I just.

From my experience, and also like obviously see these themselves were so easily damaged like that on top of the kind of delicacy of the discman itself made the sort of like my four and of years of music listening kind of bizarre and unique for people who I think, I think we're all around the same age, you know, Like I think that, like I consider junior high in high school my discmand days. And then I think when I went to college, the iPod was around ish.

Maybe yeah, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know right away.

I feel like maybe I got on in two thousand I went to I went to college in two thousand and one. I feel like I got one in two thousand and three. But maybe I just I think i'd say I got when somebody asked me when I did something, I always say two thousand and three for some reason. I don't think it's necessarily true. I just choose that year, but yeah, I just find like it was it was such a kind of like it was better than the Walkman because it was a CD. But when you actually think about and how sort of like unwieldy and disruptive it is versus like a Walkman, it's kind of like almost seemed like a bit of a mistake invention in some ways.

Well, I think the anti skip technology was super important because I think it would actually like read what was ahead and like memorize it and then play that back. But one thing I remember about CDs are You're right. They would get scratched really easily, but then you would listen to them over and over and then the scratch almost became part of your like understanding of the song, and then when you heard it without the scratch, you're like, what is happening here?

Absolutely? Yeah.

In fact, it's like I was thinking about this the other day, Like there were albums that I loved that like I don't know if I've ever heard the second song because it was scratched, you know what I mean? Like I just would just kind of and I have to skip it until until the advent of you know, streaming, like for real. There's definitely a few records like that. I also would carry in my backpack, like I didn't know, it's just actual see, like in their jewel cases, not like one of the case logics because like so they were constantly like falling out of the cradle and just like getting just fucked up beyond you know, and you repair and like.

But I was just I would just deal with it.

But yeah, like so back to the story you told, do you remember what type of Discman you.

Sold and then stole?

Yeah?

I think it was a pretty early one because we were pretty young, so I don't think Discman had been out for that long, but I feel like I do remember. I don't know if it was on that one or some later ones. There was like always there was like a skip protection thing, but it didn't really work.

Maybe, Yeah, what color was it?

It was grey?

I think it was black. It was gray?

Okay, yeah, okay, all right, So the one so like for my eighth grade graduation, my parents got me the shot the Sony Shockwave like sports thing which was.

Yellow and it was a CD.

Yeah, it was a disco yeah, and it was like you could kind of like maybe making this up. But I feel like in the commercials, it's like a snowboarder falling with one or like you know, yeah, like like a BMX rider like kind of doing a flip of one, and like that was the thing. You could drop it and it wouldn't skip. But I had that for about a month, like it's between eighth grade and ninth grade. And then when I went to ninth grade, I started to take the train to school, and I think I had it for about a month before I got robbed and it was stolen because yeah, well I think it was like because it was an expensive one. I don't know how I really when you said seventy five dollars. I think it's also like a lot of this happened in my These are the days when things were bought for me, you know what I mean.

Right, yes, before you're at the stadium, so the cotton.

Camp, exactly before I was making that money. Yeah, cotton came money, yeah, yeah.

And so like but I think that like you know, in if you were a robber, a mugger, like you know, young teenagers are like the perfect target and I would get robbed a lot, but like, sure, I think that like having those yellow and they also do the yellow headphones which also had that like the shockwave thing also made them vibrate.

Do you I don't know if you ever had this?

This is this is this, this is something because you know how you think that everybody has experienced every single little thing that you experienced as a child, and then you realize that no, okay, so maybe it's but like this sort of like you know when the kick drum or the bass would go and it would vibrate, which I've actually made my ears really itchy, you know, But I think that like if somebody would see like the yellow headphones, they would know that, like I had one of the sort of expensive yeah right, and they're like, well that's good because you know rob a young teenager, like is it kind of a crapshoot? Like what do they have like four dollars on them? And like yo yo or maybe their math homework? Yeah exactly exactly. But you see that those yellow headphones a little yellow wire, you know that, like there's a there's a right, you know, a discman and like which makes me think, now, like since if you assume I wonder if like people are getting robbed more because it's now you see a teenager and you're like, well, they have a you know, five hundred dollars little computer.

In their pocket. You know what I mean?

Right, if you just there's something of value that I could get from this, like risky, you know.

But I think it's like logistically harder, right because if you like take someone's phone, then they can lock it and that it's kind of useless, right, Like I think the technology also makes it more, right, difficult to do that stuff, which is good.

Right, But if you're kind of let's say the person you rob is a herb, right, and you're just kind of like you tell anyone, I'll fucking kick your ass.

Simon, I really like float On exactly.

Do you guys want to plave it? Now? I mean I don't do you like this song? I don't like? I like this song? You like? I don't know, I don't like this song.

But yeah, Like, but you know, if you put this sort of like if the robbers are familiar, which they were with me, there was like I knew everybody who was mugging me. They would just wait outside my train station. In fact, one of them was at my sixth birthday party and so like they could kind of like if I knew I would see them again. Yeah, I was about to say his name, but.

What was his relationship to you?

We were friends, we liked the Ninja Turtles, and then we became teenagers and he decided to rob me with his friends every day. Okay, okay, kind of yeah, I mean I think we went to the same school and then we didn't. But he wasn't him who still a disc man? It was it was actually like the robbing of the Shockwave Discman was like took about forty five minutes, and it was all on trains. It was like the French connection, you know what I mean? You know it saying like I was just like running through cars going taking different trains and they would get on and I would see them. I would go through the doors and go like this, and then finally it was like it's my stop, and then they got out my stop and I was.

Like, hi, guys, doing you know?

But yeah, like I don't know, I feel like, man, knowing the people who rob you is maybe it's better.

It might be a little less scary, little less.

Yeah, because if I was more of a herb, and I was a herb, but I could be like about to say his name again. I'm going to say his first name, Jeffrey. That's his first name. Okay, Like I know your mom, you know what I mean, Like I'm going to tell your mom, And I know even scary muggers don't want to be schooled by their mom.

Yeah you know what I mean.

Yeah, But but I was in the fine line where I wasn't herb be enough to tattle, but I also was herb enough to be a completely easy target who people had a great time and a lot of fun taking my stuff, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just was thinking about my early CDs while you start talking about that, because I was going to make a reference to it, and I realized I just got a joke from nineteen ninety two, like in the last two month, and it's Vanessa, do you know what a B side is? Is it?

Uh? What is it?

It's kind of like if there's a single, it's kind of like the other song, like if you were to forty five that like the extra song they put on. Is that how you define it, Simon.

Yes, it's yes, yeah, exactly, it's the song it's not as good as the other one.

Yeah, but sometimes it's better. Skid Row in nineteen ninety two, Sorry to bring it back to Sebastian Bach and Co. But skid Row nineteen ninety two released a B side collection called B Side Ourselves Wow, And I just got the joke, like I was like, beside ourselves, Oh, beside ourselves the Masters Wow. And they cover the Ramones on it, which also seems totally bizarre.

I bet that was a fabulous version of.

Psychotherapy And that's why you do what you do now.

Because of the cover of specifically.

How did you get into this well? In the nineteen ninety two skid Row covered the song psychotherapy, and I thought, Eh, we're gonna go back to school in thirty years.

Yeah, if you were real herb, you'd be like, skid Row wrote this song cause psychotherapy. And then you're like, there is awesome skid Row song. Like they're kind of like kind of punk, like I don't know if you really know, like Sebastian Bach like, well, that's a really funny joke they made.

He's funny.

It's pretty good. Do you think that they when they covered it, The Ramones thought they were herbs, like they were like, oh, here comes Sebastian back. He's a total herb.

Probably, I don't know, I would imagine. What do you think, Simon?

I think one hundred percent. So yeah, so this is not this is not directly Ramones related, but it's like it's it's it's it's kind of you know, adjacent where I was in Japan playing a festival and I saw Captain Sensible from The Damned and he started talking to me. He liked them GMT were talking, and then Michael Monroe from Hanoi Rocks. You know who is gonna be the reason Sebastian Bach, you know he's.

Doing this, you know, the reason guns and Roses exist.

And like Maley Krugs, they were like the first, right, And I was kind of like, don't love their music, but like if you're the first, godspeed right. So like he's like I was seeing a picture with Captain Sensible and and I just see like this guy, you know, and he looks like the Quintess. He looks like he's playing a aging rock and roller in a movie, like he's full on. Just kind of like nothing's really fitting very well. The eyeshadow is terrible like blah blah blah, and he's like, you guys taking a picture and then Captain Sensible goes, oh bollocks, here he comes again, Hello Michael. And I'm like, oh my god, like Michael monrosa herb. He's like, what's up, Captain? Who's this guy? Do you mind if I get into your picture? And he's like fine, just you know, and like I have It's on my Instagram. It's a fucking picture of Captain says well, Michael Monroe. But he just kept like annoying the damn and I'm like, this is a herb from the seventies, Like this guy has been annoying the damned for close to fifty years.

And he's like, hairy comes. He literally said hairy comes. And I was like, oh my god.

Like Simon, what's the difference. How do you describe a difference between a herb and a punisher?

Okay, no, all right, So a herb can be a punisher and a punisher can be a herb.

So that doesn't work.

But sometimes a punisher, I think it's the punisher is like trying to get information because they're obsessed for the most part, Like that style of punisher and they're also not behaving in a way that could be construed as kind of it's wave or cool, because they're just punishing you with questions.

Yeah, it depends.

I think it's just like all about what you are being punished about, or what one is being punished about, Like if there's sort of like interesting questions and facts, or if they're just kind.

Of like, hey, you know, so what are you doing? What are you doing have to show? Oh? Man, like you should go what's your favorite part? Like, but if they're.

Punishing you in a way that they want to hang out with you or something like that, it's more on the herb side. But that they're like asking about, you know, where something was recorded or like what you know, how did you get this? Sound like it's sort of like interesting sort of technical questions. But I don't think they're doing if I don't think the intention is to make the person they are punishing like them. The intention is to actually they're really desperately curious about the information that they're punishing one about. That's not necessarily a herb. Yeah, but like if they're punishing someone to make the person like them, then they're a herb. But that's a very good question.

I don't think I knew before this what a punisher is.

Yeah, punisher someone who kind of asks a lot of questions like kind of but I think it's like, you know, being a music journal is, like, you know, such a myself is like a great front for like a punisher, cause it's like you gets kind of legitimized because like, well, I'm writing this article, so I have to ask you all these really in depth questions about this stuff. But it's sort of like you know your way in a little bit.

Yeah.

So it's like I think that sometimes I enjoy punishers. Yeah, but then there's like, but you can also be punished. But okay, punisher doesn't only mean question asking, Am I right? Like I think punishing could also be sort of like incessantly going on and on about like yeah yourself, you know what I mean, Like yeah, oh, you know, I just so I get basically, you know, I got like a you know, I'm between jobs at the moment, but you know what, like just like it's just this sort of kind of like they won't tell and everything you say, like you could literally say it doesn't matter because they're just here. Like I just so you know what, Like I'm like, honestly, like, so what, like I can fucking do what I want to work and they have a fucking problem with it. Fuck you, right, dude, I'm like, yeah, okay, it's like it doesn't matter. So what, Like I know, like I can't drive anymore because I fucking crashed into somebody when I was wasted. And that's fucking cool, right, I'm like, yeah, like, you know, that's kind of that's like a herd punisher.

I love that your example, someone punish someone who opens with between jobs.

Right, Well, I think that punishers don't don't last long at workplaces.

They're like a little they're like, right, that's probably like an event diagram of punishers.

Probably a lot of them are unemployed.

They're like because they're like that's how they even when they're.

A world their boss or something.

Yeah, or they were just so annoying to work, but they were like, oh man, last night, like I stayed up so late, Like I just like, you know, my roommate works at this restaurant and she's able to bring home like all the extra food and stuff like that, and and actually some of the booze, which is really cool.

It's like really expensive stuff.

It's like I guess it's like top shelf stuff for like the shelf below it. But anyway, like she brings it all home like they she's not technically allowed to, but like what are they gonna say?

You know what I mean?

They need her to work there, so like I just I absolutely down like all this liquor like again like really either a top shell for the one under it, and I had like steak and like lobster and stuff like it was so cool and.

Yeah, I get fired.

I'm a punisher herb, so between jobs and then I think another punisher herb kind of like catchphrase is women are fucking crazy, dude, Like whatever comes after that is this gonna be?

I'm like I don't want to hear what you're about to say.

Like like seriously, dude, chicks are crazy, Like I literally have never fucking not dated a fucking crazy girl. Like they're fucking crazy, Like it's like last one. I also, I can't be tamed.

I don't want to actually go or there or I think there's another version that's like says all the things all the time. It goes like oh my god, like I just like I'm such a stick for like I love spa treatments, I love shopping, like I love all the things, like all the girly things, like I just love like.

Yes, but that that so that type of punisher is like the person sitting next to you on a plane, right, and they're like, huh boeing, Okay, don't I wonder what movies should I watch? What are you watching? I shut the fuck up? Like Los Angeles, it's warm there. Do you know what the weather is? I'm like, fucking no, I don't know, yes, but fuck you, you know what I mean? Like that's sort of that punisher. But I'm like, you're harmless, you know, right, right right, you're harmless, but like shut out, like maybe like you know, an uber driver could be a punisher in that sense, and like these people, I mean, this is also my fucking East Coast asshole shit where I don't I don't.

I don't like being.

Spoken to at all, and I don't and I don't like any interaction to take more than you know, twenty five seconds at the most.

But yeah, I feel like that's sort of like.

Banal, harmless, possibly lonely punissure. Yeah, it's irritating, but you also kind of like, well, you know, how long's left in the you know, flight five and a half hours.

I believe that the gen Z phrase for this would respond to this by saying, read the room.

Yes, right right right, oh good.

Most of the stuff that gen Z say I don't understand, but that I get.

I learned the funniest thing about gen Z the other day. I ready texted Veness about it. Oh yeah, someone posted, you know, uh, Tracy Chapman just performed at the Grammys, and someone gen Z person posted all this stuff like Tracy Chapman, who is this? Like I did a deep dive and this like unknown artist that was like performed at the Grammys. And then it was like basically just took all the stuff off Wikipedia and like was like, you know, acted they're expert. And then someone responded with this meme about how gen Z they call them the Christopher Columbus generation because I think they just everything right.

Well, that's so that's kind of the new breed of herbs. Yeah, like if someone's playing the Grammys, you probably didn't discover and I'm just gonna.

Say yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like you know that this is there are people in the audience like this isn't just other people can see this too, Like this is just something you didn't do a fucking YouTube search and like find this, you.

Know, I know. It's yeah, it's it's incredible. Like wait till they find this, like yeah, wait till they find yeah anything, I mean yeah, but it's so it's such a funny phrase to me.

That's such a funny phrase.

And I will say I watched the Tracy Chapman Luke Combe's performance on the Grammys.

It was so great.

And then I went back and watched her nineteen eighty nine performance at the Grammys, which is like incredible. It's so crazy to see her like singing that song. And I will say, now, given this conversation that we've been having, the whole audience seems like Herbs because she's she's.

Like absolutely killing it.

She's like this young like she's she's just like so it's so emotional whatever, and the audience looks like they like cannot keep up, like they're just like trying to like clap and stuff, and like they're they're absolutely trying to hide that they're Herbs.

Right the Trump Dance, They're just.

Like they're just she like puts everybody in the audience to shame, and it's basically like it's not on purpose, but she basically like turns them onto herbs in like no time.

Oh my god.

Yeah, when when When when you're the coolest person in a gigantic room like Tracy Chapman, Like that must be pretty rad. Yeah, like monicles are falling into champagne flutes and shit. Like I would say, you put fucking fast car in a commercial and I'm buying whatever that is. Oh yeah, I will wipe the tears out of my eyes after the commercial is done and go to you know, whatever store or whatever and just buy whatever products they're selling.

Yeah.

Yeah, although like even all of this fast Car, you know, they were saying, I read something that the that fast Car has been like downloaded so much since the Grammys too, like they're you know, the original obviously Tracy Chapman version has been downloaded so much. And I guess I would be a little disheartened if all of a sudden, like it was in a commercial. Yes, okay, but then I'd also be like, good for Tracy Chapman. Everybody else gets to cash in.

Why doesn't she?

Sure?

Well, I think I think younger me would almost be like oh, like oh, people like Tracy Chapman now were like, you know whatever, Like I liked her first and like, no, I don't.

I think she sucks and I will. But now as a kind.

Of a a a grown up quote unquote, yeah, I'm I think I'm just if she's getting money from a commercial with fast Car, if she's playing the Grammys and people are downloading her ship, I'm take my ego out of it, you know, yes, good for good for TC.

We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be back with these herbs, right and we're back, Okay, Well, if anyone else has anymore Herbie questions to ask, We're going to play a game.

Is that? Is that cool?

Yes?

But does anyone else feeling like feeling like the sort of her the herb theme has has made them a little bit self conscious about the questions and things you're saying.

That sure has with me.

I'm like everything that kind of goes into my brain and on the process of coming out of my mouth, I'm like, what I sem like a herb? I fucking saying this and like will this continue after the podcast? Like is this going to be like the rest of our week or my week.

Yeah, just during the course of this podcast, I've realized I was a herb in front of you, Simon Fine, you know so I'm just realizing, Yeah, this has been a real reality check for me.

Whenever you guys stop to talk about or whenever we're ever doing a podcast in Jonah is talking to the guest about like any kind of music thing, I just sit there like a herb because I'm like, you know, you're like and remember you did this tour and like or you'll be like in an amp when it has this kind of sound, it sounds so much better than this sound.

And I'm always like, I'll just sit back being a herb.

I feel like sitting back is not herbie. If you like interjected, like, if you told me that you were at that Tracy Chapman show, then that's kind of a you're like, oh Beatles saw m in sixty five, you know, right right?

I mean I did see Tracy Chapman once at the Beacon Theater. Really yeah, so but I feel like it's.

Kind of a herb move.

You didn't bring it up, though, you.

Not bringing it up is actually an anti herb move.

Thing.

That's happened in the last hour. Yeah, that's fucking name man.

Well, speaking of her herbs, you have good segue. Thank you. We have a new segment today. It's called Congratulations you bake yourself.

Congratulations you baked yourself.

In this game, we'll discuss three culinary dishes that are making a comeback. And the rules are a little unclear of this game. It's a little bit of a works in progress. But we'll pick which one of these three dishes we're most excited about, and that will be the issue that has baked itself, the dish that has baked. The dish has baked itself. So we had we have another segment called congratulations you played yourself. This is congratulations you baked yourself.

So baked is good or bad?

Great question?

In the other game, the other game, it's bad, it's bad, but in this.

One it's actually good.

It's because these these are all in the other game, it's sort of the opposites, like things are going anyway. The point is this game, these dishes are making a comeback, and the one that we like the most baked itself. Yeah okay, but we don't pick that till the end. So just we'll just discuss these three and then we'll pick at the end. Jonah, I can read this first one.

Sure, let's kick yeah, why don't kick us off?

The first dish that's coming back is strawberry pretzel salad. And this article says some recipes just never go out of style, and this strawberry pretzel salad is one dish that tastes popular for a good reason, perfect for potlux, and practically required at picnics. Actually have been to a lot of picnics, I've never seen it. This dessert recipe is simple to make and hard to get wrong. There are layers of salty pretzels, whipped cream, cheese, and bright strawberries suspended in gelatin, all topped off with lightly sweetened sound sorry, with lightly sweetened sour cream and toasted pecans. Most likely created along with the wave of jello salads popular in the nineteen sixties. It's a simple, classic dish that just so happens to be an explosion of flavor and texture.

Wow, Simon, what are your thoughts on strawberry strawberry pretzel salad.

I've never heard of it before. From the description, I find it very confusing a bit unwieldy. I feel like it's sort of a I might be completely leaving something out, but I'm not sure how I've feel about food where every bite is wildly different, you know what I mean? Yeah, like especially different textures, Like it seems like a tooth breaker.

You got what what were the nuts in there?

Pecans? And yeah, okay.

Okay, yeah, So I don't say my answer right now or because there's gonna be two more dishes described correct exactly?

Yeah, I guess that's right.

Yeah, Vanessa, what do you think of this one?

I am surprised by how much the author is like, of course you know about this one, like we're so happy this is coming back.

Like strawberry pretzels sound right?

I The idea of pretzels and cream cheese and gelatin sounds like pretty gross to me, But I actually bet this is pretty good. So I'm going to reserve judgment until I hear the other.

It reminds me of something that that a child would make.

Yeah, right.

It seems like they threw everything together.

Like I like these things and I'm going to put them all in a bowl and give them to mommy.

Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, and then your mom would go, this is this is really good, Simon, thank you for making this for me, And then like when you left the room, she'd be like, that's going in the trash at the grocery store.

Never get back.

She'd take one bite and smile and then yeah.

Exactly, Yeah, I guess my kid's a herb. Yeah, yeah, I agree. They act like it's such a well known thing, like, oh, he made some strawberry pretzels, sound like, oh, actually I had some last night, but I guess I could have more.

It seems very church groupie.

Now I want to give a little disclaimer. This article is from Southern Living, so that might have something to do with why we haven't heard of strawberry. Yeah.

And speaking of which, our next dish, this is a very fancy sounding dish.

Hopefully it's from Northern Living.

It's steak Diane.

Okay.

Steak Diane usually refers to a pant siered steak dish as cooked in butter and finished with the flompayed cream and cognac sauce. Some recipes ease strip steaks, but we prefer tender beef filets or beef tender loin medallions. Likewise, some sauces are beefed up with mushrooms, other skip them. The Diane in the recipe refers to the pant sauce and how it's made with mustard cream, Worcester and flombay. Cognac basing the steaks and butter really ensures the steak wi a flavorful and beefy saltiness. They can trast beautifully with the cognac notes of the sauce. Flombang is quick, safe and easy. But if you don't have ventilation, simply a makea step or allow the alcohol to cook off on low heat instead. Simon. What are your thoughts on the comeback of steak? Dianne Well, I was a.

Bit distracted by the amount the word beef was in there, and especially when they used it. They used it to not refer to the beef of the dish, but to say the beefed up the sauce.

Right, Yeah, I think I was just kind of.

Stuck on that. I was like, is that was that intentional?

I think it was.

I think this person is a little bit of a I'll drop in a pun here and there.

A herb.

Yeah, the next one is herb crusted chicken. But like so, I mean, from what I heard, it sounds like a pretty relatively normal food. They were just kind of it's almost like there's they are over describing it to me, like I know, I kind of know what it is. I mean, there's certain little nuances that that kind of took me for a loop. I was distracted by the you know the use of the word beef. So I'm not sure if I kind of absorbed everything, but I I would take that over the strawberry pretzels salad.

So thus far, Yeah, that's winning for you so far.

Yeah, it's yeah.

I mean, could you picture yourself being at like a fancy restaurant and being like, I'll have the steak Diane.

Please see that's not me, you know, like I don't like fancy restaurants first of all, Like.

They just I was just like, it's just like, oh, who missed you would do? But like, you know what, shut up? I want to. I was just like, I want you know, it's not my thing.

I don't really like I don't really like you know, a menus or waiters, you know.

But I'm I'm envisioning you saying this all just the best two Yeah.

Who's I'm saying I'm saying this person. I'm saying this to the stewardess on the play. I'm like, like, what is this? Do you eat the tinfoil? Yeah? Sorry, yes I could, Jona.

Okay, fair enough, I will say that I got a little stuck.

Jonah.

I don't know about you, because I have this article in front of me. On their description of why it's called steak Diane. They don't really explain it. They say the Diane in quotes, they put Diane in quotes, the Diane in the recipe refers to the pant sauce and how it's made Colon with mustard cream, Worcester and flombayed cognac. It's like, okay, you're not explain why Diane though, like, is it like Diane von something loved cognac. So that's why they're just saying ingredients. And then you go, well, how do I put these two together?

That's what I thought too. I thought they're going to be like famously Shelley Long who played Diane and Cheers I love, Yeah, right, that.

Would be great.

Then I would go, I don't even have to hear the other two. I love Cheers and I love Diane and I love this dish.

Yeah, right, Like they left the most interesting part of mystery.

I think, well we will in the initial reading they did.

Yeah, you know.

It's also like if your wife.

Is named Diane and she's gone missing, would you serve steak Diane? Or where people raise an eyebrow.

I think the right might might make you a little suspicious.

The optics not good?

Jonah, would you order it? Could you see yourself ordering?

I think yeah, I mean it sounds yeah, I would. It sounds kind of interesting, you know, I like I didn't have mistakes, pretty pretty minimalists. But this is not exactly the first one. You know, Flambay Kogniac sounds pretty intense. But I would try it if I was out somewhere fancy. I don't know, maybe someone else's pay and maybe I'm on an expense account or something.

Why not?

Right?

Right?

But said you want to share this last one?

Sure we can ask one more question about yeah, just quickly, I'm very sorry.

How much do you think this would cost in a restaurant?

I think it's expensive. I think, yeah, get steak. It has the name Diane in it. I think this is I think this is a fifty dollars entre.

Okay, our producer Olivia has said, invented in London and named after the Greek goddess of hunt, Diane, isn't it Diana?

I think it's Diana, but.

They they're being little herbs and they're calling her Diana.

But based on the name.

Okay, yeah, this is an expensive dish. This is you're not getting it. You're not getting a steak Diane for twenty bucks at the.

Okay, the Greek god thing is good. I wish they said Diana because I feel like Diane's yeah, like suit beat god Susan, you know what I mean.

It makes me more mad at the way it's explained in this article, because it's like they completely leave that off about but they're like, because it has mustard in it.

It's like, oh, yeah, of course, yeah.

Let's not blame the food for the poor, you know, literary presentation.

Right, let's not hold that against it. That's a really good point.

The nasty one again. This last one, yeah, yes.

This last one is whacky cake.

Wacky cake, also known as crazy cake, wor cake, depression cake, and three whole cake, is a simple chocolate cake recipe that's been using kitchens for.

Using kitchens for nearly a century.

This cake was created when many common ingredients were hard to acquire or food items were being rationed, so the recipe doesn't include any butter, eggs, or milk. Even though this cake originated during challenging times, the recipe itself couldn't be easier to create. Okay, Wacky cake is considered wacky not only because the recipe lacks any dairy or eggs, but also because all the ingredients for this cake are mixed directly into the pan it's baked in. Okay, and then what are the ingredients for wacky cake? The ingredients for wacky cake include every day kischen and staples you likely already have in your home.

These ingredients include all.

Purpose flour, sugar, cocoa powder, baking soda, salt, oil, vinegar, and vanilla extract. But there is while room for substitutions if needed. So what do you think about wacky cake?

Simon?

I think that I would rather call it depression cake. I think that that was that seemed because even though again I'm upset with the writing, I wanted more of a sort of a kind of the historical tale of this cake. Like was it is it like buffalo wings, which kind of originated in the Depression, to kind of, you know, spice up a very easy to get literally, spice up a very easy to get food and make it a more interesting dish. And I'm imagining because it was called depression cake, it is a great depression sort of invention.

I like the historical aspect of that.

I would I would like to call the strawberry pretzel putting wacky cake.

Yeah instead yes, yeah, it seems more wack.

Yeah.

And when and then, like I was on the edge of my seat when when Vanessa you were saying that, like it's basically what was the sense like something it's almost like what we described as a strawberry pretzel salad, where ITAs like everything in the kitchen. But then they're like, it's like everything in the kitchen, and then they just kind of like, well everything like a cabinet, you know what I mean. Sounds like there's like fucking pickles and ham.

Right right, right, right, right right.

It's just like this like it's a little it's like a little corner of a cabinet, like just throw that in. I think that's I will Okay, something that I need to say, is I am hungry now right? Okay? And I didn't realize until we started to discuss these delicious foods. But I'm not ready for my decision yet. But I will say that that will that is influencing my decision. And I think backy cake sounds fine.

Okay, you know, yeah, sounds fine.

Yeah, it'll do.

I'm with Simon. I don't think it's as wacky as the strawberry pretzel salad. But you know, and I to be asked, I don't eat a ton of cake. If I'm gonna eat cake, I kind of want it to be kind of high quality cake. Had some thing someone's like, we have some extra baking soda and vinegar. I made a cake, but but I don't know. Yeah, it's it's fine, it's it's it's I don't have strong feelings about Vanessa.

What about you? Well.

I left this detail out because I was trying to get through this description. But there's also a detail that this recipe goes against most popular methods for mixing cake batters because there's no especially because there's no bowler whisk necessary. Plus, and this is in the article in creating wells for the dry ingredients and filling them with the wet ingredients before mixing it adds another level of wacky. So like it's funny because it's like the strawberry dish is like so it's just like the ingredients itself are like you're like, that's wacky. The steak Diane, You're like, oh, it's named after this goddess of the hunt.

Like that's intense.

This one is like there's like there's like you know, chocolate and like an egg in it or whatever, or no eggs, but like there's like these all purpose flour, sugar and baking soda in it.

It's wacky.

Like it's like it's almost like like you said, kind of Simon, it's like they're scrambling like this this cake is almost taking too much credit for how like whack adoodle it is when it's actually just like this has the most basic ingredients in it, and I don't know, but also I know that, like you know, given the times when it was like you know, the Great Depression or whatever, they had to like be excited about stuff, so they were like this cake is wacky, Like this is wild fun that we're having in the midst of all the doom, just a.

A jovial glimmer in trying times by naming wacky cake. And I guess like so it's all like non perishables pretty much to go in it, right, I think that's the main thing. And then you could make it sort of in like the pan that you have on your backpack. Right, Yeah, so as you walk from town to town.

OK.

Yeah, if you had to pick one, Simon, what are you going with the steak Diane, the strawberry pretzel salad or the wacky cake?

Well, I feel like, sort of it's almost classiest to not choose the wacky cake because I feel like it's like, you know, like it's disrespectful for people who have no option but to eat the wacky cake at a certain time.

Sure, so I want that to be noted.

But I am choosing steak Diana, which I'm gonna call it Diana because, as you've said, Vanessa, that just makes more sense and that's I kind of want to eat that right now.

Yeah, it sounds pretty good. Yeah, I'm with Simon. I think the steak Diane slash Diana does sound like the most appetizing to me. Look, if this steak is seventy five bucks, like forget it. But if it like I.

Said, dude, yeah, I'll never be saying I five dollars for anything, you know what I mean?

But yeah, I've all these It sounds the most appetizing, Vanessa, what about you?

Well, okay, I want to appreciate what Simon's about, like not being like, you know, the It seems like in some ways the right thing to do is to go with the wacky cake. But wouldn't imagine what a major herb you'd be if you showed up to a party and you were like, this is wacky cake and people were like, well go.

And then you explained why, yeah, they have to like it. Twenty minutes you're disrespectful and they're like they like, like this is history and it's real, and people struggle and like, don't just dismiss the wacky cake because like, check your privilege.

It just got it just it just got It's just got all these like basic ingredients that like you already have in your pantry. And then people would be like, okay, well you have access to like grocery stores and stuff, and you'd be like yeah, but I thought it would be kind of a bring a cool piece of history to this party exactly. So I guess I'm okay with that coming back, but I would I certainly don't want to be the one who's bringing it, you know, to a pot luck. So I would say, honestly, I am excited about the strawberry pretzel salad. I look, I don't appreciate that the writer was like everybody, everybody remember our fave dish, strawberry pretzel salad.

It's back. But at the same time, I'm into it.

It seems like it could it could be really disgusting, but it could also be really good, and I'm willing to take that risk.

Yeah, the fave dish thing seems like a bit of a syop, you know, you're like, oh yeah, it wasn't like you know, you almost feel like I've never heard of it, but I guess everyone else has, so it it's my favorite too.

I mean, this person's this writers thing. It's practically required at picnics.

It's like, where what just imagine that shit covered in nants? Oh? Thank you?

Well, I guess to conclude this game, steak Diane, congratulations you baked yourself?

Oh yeah?

One, So Simon, where can people find out more. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can people find out more about your music? What you have going on? I know there's a new spiral Heads album. What can you talk about that stuff really quick?

Yeah?

Yeah, so there's a there's a new Spiralheads album, and or for our first record. So we worked on it for a while then and now we're done with it and it's coming out on February twenty third, and we will be playing shows eventually, although I haven't none in the books yet, but there's some cool videos coming out and that's kind of it. And then there's Modest Mouse. Pixie's cap Power Tour is resuoming in June or late May, and then there'll be some more exciting Modest Mouse stuff that I can't talk about yet but coming up soon. But that's really it.

You know, Well, you guys should put the strawberry pretzel salad thing on your rider. Maybe you'll get some on the.

Road, especially when you're in the South.

Yeah, we put the stick Diane on the rider. That'll be kind of.

Be like wait, but we also put Wacky Cake, so like we're not really you know, like we're kind of like a band of the people.

We have wacky cake.

Also, can you imagine asking for wacky cake and like getting follow up. It's like the venues asking like what kind of wacky cake you want and you be like like, well, there's like there's room for substitutions, like it's just but like it's like anything they have in.

Their home, and can they bring it to us in a bindle? Is that okay?

We just want to see the runner bring a stick with a handkerchief filled with the ingredients, so just you know, for the experience. Yeah, and then no, put wacky cake on the rider and then like one page is the full explanation of the history of it.

What makes a wacky cake wacky? Yeah, and have that I'll explain that they're like.

Her Yeah, exactly herbs, we're talking about wacky cake.

Well, thank you so much Simon for joining us and everyone for listening. If you enjoyed that, please subscribe to the podcast and up an I for next week's episode of How Did We Get Weird, where we will discuss more stories from our childhood and cultural touchstones like the sony Discman and being a herb.

Thanks so much, you guys,

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How Did We Get Weird with Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer

Before sibling duo Vanessa Bayer and Jonah Bayer took the comedy, music and general world by storm, … 
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